by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Benjamin Wildfire.
This report covers:
- First test
- Loading the clip
- Air management
- String two
- Is this okay?
- String three
- Refilling the rifle after 36 shots
- What’s the verdict?
- RWS Hobby pellets
- Lead-free lightweight pellets
- Discharge sound
- Trigger pull
- Evaluation so far
Today we go right into shooting the Benjamin Wildfire for velocity. I’m excited, so let’s begin.
First test
I know there are many things people want to know about the Wildfire, so I am going to test it a little differently. You will still get the same results I always give, but I will add a few extra things I don’t usually do. The incredible interest in this gun justifies this special approach. We will begin with Crosman Premier lite pellets.
I filled the rifle to 2000 psi and began shooting. Since the clip holds 12 pellets I tested it with strings of 12 shots instead of 10. I will give you the standard data in a moment, but I first want to show you the velocity of each shot.
Shot………Velocity
1……………721
2……………710
3……………709
4……………699
5……………701
6……………700
7……………699
8……………700
9……………704
10………… 686
11………… 683
12………… 680
The average velocity for this string was 699 f.p.s. The spread is from a low of 680 f.p.s. to a high of 721 f.p.s. That’s a range of 41 f.p.s. At the average velocity, this pellet generates 8.57 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.
If you do the math for the average velocity and your answer doesn’t agree with mine, know that I always round off the numbers when I report them, but I usually allow the chronograph to calculate the average. Since my Shooting Chrony Alpha Master records in tenths of an f.p.s., its average can disagree slightly with the average for this list.
Loading the clip
I noticed with each different pellet that you have to forcibly push the pellets into the clip. Their skirts don’t want to go in without an extra push. You feel each of them pop into place. I remember that from my days with a 1077.
Air management
When the test started the gauge onboard the rifle indicated 2000 psi. It agrees with outside gauges very closely. At the end of shooting it registered 1,600 psi. That’s 400 psi for 12 shots. It also indicates there are more shots on the charge. So I reloaded the clip with Premier lites and went again. This time the string looked like this.
String two
Shot………Velocity
1……………678
2……………675
3……………666
4……………662
5……………649
6……………647
7……………643
8……………642
9……………652
10………… 651
11………… 641
12………… 628
The average velocity for this string was 653 f.p.s. The spread goes from 628 to 678 — a range of 50 f.p.s. At the average velocity, this pellet generated 7.48 foot pounds at the muzzle.
Is this okay?
Obviously the velocity is different for the second string. The average is 46 f.p.s. slower and the velocity spread is larger. Is this okay? Well, it is safe and causes no damage to the gun, so from the standpoint of operability — it works. But you wouldn’t want to shoot field target with a velocity variance this large. And now it’s time to remember exactly what the Wildfire is — a Crosman 1077 that runs on air. Free air.
It happens that I also tested a 1077 back in 2014 and the average on CO2 with the same Premier lite pellet was 611 f.p.s. So, even this second string from the Wildfire is shooting faster than the 1077 I tested. I think that is how we must look at this air rifle — not how it stacks up against a Benjamin Marauder. At issue here is how it performs against a 1077.
At the end of this string the onboard pressure gauge read 1400 psi. That means from start to finish the rifle used just 200 psi. I think there is probably some slop in the gauge, because there is no reason for the gun to suddenly use half the air it did before for the same 12 shots.
String three
Yes, I loaded the clip for a third string. Why not? The rifle is still shooting faster than it does on CO2. Let’s see what it can do. Same pellet as before.
Shot………Velocity
1……………630
2……………624
3……………624
4……………614
5……………613
6……………611
7……………598
8……………596
9……………602
10………… 597
11………… 585
12………… 595
The average velocity for this string was 607 f.p.s., which is only a little slower than the average on CO2. The spread ranges from a low of 585 to a high of 630. That’s a span of 45 f.p.s. across 12 shots. At the average velocity this pellet now generates 6.46 foot pounds at the muzzle.
The air pressure at the end of this string registers 1100 psi. That’s as low as I want to go.
Refilling the rifle after 36 shots
Now I attached the Air Venturi G6 hand pump and filled the Wildfire with air. It took 4 strokes to pressurize the line to 1100 psi and 60 strokes to bring the rifle back up to 2000 psi. That works out to 1.67 pump strokes per shot.
What’s the verdict?
So — are there 36 good shots on one fill? Well, that’s up to you. If you shoot the Wildfire like a 1077 — fast at action targets — then, yes, there are at least 36 good shots per fill, if not more. However, if you want to shoot half-inch groups at 50 yards then I don’t think a velocity spread of 136 f.p.s. will support that. But I don’t think that the Wildfire is a 50-yard airgun to begin with. What I am saying is, the Wildfire operates well on air. It will do everything a 1077 will, and you don’t have to buy CO2.
RWS Hobby pellets
Let’s look at a couple different pellets, starting with the RWS Hobby. I will show you every shot in the string again, because with the Hobby the performance curve was a little different.
Shot………Velocity
1……………728
2……………716
3……………714
4……………721
5……………729
6……………725
7……………702
8……………694
9……………700
10………… 695
11………… 698
12………… 699
The average for this string was 710 f.p.s. the velocity spread went from 694 to 729 — a span of 35 f.p.s. Notice how much flatter the velocity curve is with the Hobby. It isn’t that much faster than the Premier lite, but it retains velocity throughout the first 12 shots better.
At the average velocity, Hobbys generated 7.84 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. The pressure at the end of the string was 1500 psi, which is a 500 psi drop. I don’t think I would place a lot of trust on these pressure figures. I think they are more approximate than they appear.
Lead-free lightweight pellets
The final pellet I tried was the Crosman Silver Eagle wadcutter that is no longer made. I weighed several to get an average wright for you and noted that they were all over the place. They range from 4.7 grains to 5.0 grains, so some of the velocity numbers are probably affected by that.
Silver Eagles averaged 788 f.p.s. with a spread from 760 f.p.s. to 825 f.p.s. So there is the 800 f.p.s. velocity that Crosman claims.
Discharge sound
I note that the Wildfire is louder than a 1077 for the first two clips. By clip 3 the discharge sounds about the same as a 1077. In the beginning, though, it’s very close to a 4 on the Pyramyd AIR sound scale.
Trigger pull
The trigger breaks right at 12 lbs. Sometimes it’s a little less, sometimes a little more. But it doesn’t feel that heavy when you are shooting. I guess that’s because 12 lbs is light for a double action revolver.
Evaluation so far
The Wildfire is turning out exactly like I expected. That’s because I was expecting to see a 1077 running on air, which is what this is. The trigger is still that long double action pull that we have talked about, and it will always remain so. But a 1077 has good accuracy that I hope we will see next.
BB,
Excellent report! Good to stress the point that the gun has to be valued on its own and not against others which cost at least the double. With this results I would buy it immediately if I could get it here.
There is a small spelling error in the “First test” paragraph (interewst ).
Glad to know that your eye is doing well.
Regards,
August
August,
Thanks for spotting that. My fat fingers make me do that. But, look at you — correcting in a second language! I still struggle with gasthaus Deutsch! 😉
B.B.
Hi BB and the group . Have not joined in blog discussions for awhile since most blogs lately have been about air rifles.
When I read part 1 of this series, I wondered what I was missing by not having a Crosman 1077 so I just got one. I will be interested in your accuracy reports of the Wildfire . My main interest in airguns seem to be pistols, but the 1077 seemed like a rifle I could relate to. Inexepensive, and reasonably accurate for paper punching. I doubt my air gun hobby will ever expand to PCP but who knows . Hope you continue to have good luck with your eyes. Best wishes
Harvey
Harvey,
Okay, you are the perfect person to tell the readers about the 1077. Does it live up to the things I have been saying about it?
B.B.
I can just give my initial impression of the 1077 as with our cold winter weather here have not been able to really test it. I was concerned that the trigger pull would be a handicap, but firing the rifle is so much fun, I barely noticed it,. The 12 shot clip is a real bonus.. You actually can have fun firing this thing without fighting loading each pellet. I have had pump up bolt action rifles and indexing the pellet just right gets to be a real chore This thing, you just aim and fire .When you do fire, the noise is very low. Probably the quietest C02 gun I have . After 3 years in the air gun hobby, I am getting over some of my prejudices against plastic guns.
I have had several all metal hand guns fail, where as some of the plastic ones keep ticking. Bottom line is this is a inexpensive , fun little shooter.
Best wishes to you all
Harvey
B.B.,
Nice report. Thanks for the extra effort. I liked the “1.67 pumps per shot” comment. That put’s things in a nice perspective. Not bad at all. Looking forward to the accuracy testing. Maybe consider a test that would illustrate the group/shot drop in POI as the pressure drops over 3 clips? 3 groups, 1 clip each, aiming at the bull each time. I am not sure what yardage you would try that at,…. 10 too close,.. 25 too far? At any rate, it would be a nice example of fps drop in relation to POI.
Good Day all,…. Chris
Chris,
Yes, I do plan to shoot the three groups you mention. Not at 10 meters. I think that has to be done at 25 yards to have any real meaning — just as you note.
B.B.
B.B. and Chris,
I agree that the “1.67 pumps per shot” observation is key, not just for the Wildfire but for all 2000 psi PCPs. I was briefly disappointed at only 36 shots per fill, but when I read the 1.67 pumps per shot, I immediately thought of multi-pumpers. How many pumps of a Benji 397 do get a 595 fps shot? Five? Maybe six if it is slightly tired? And that is per shot, every shot.
Michael
Michael
And not just 2000 psi guns. That kind helps determine a tune like say on my modded .25 caliber Marauder. That pump per shot tells me how much air is used per shot for a tune. If you start watching that it will tell if a tune is efficient or not if the tune is changed.
B.B.,
Not exactly off-topic, but do you know / could you find out if the Maximus Euro requires less effort to cock than the standard Maximus?
I just visited Crosman’s Maximus Euro page and reread Pt. 3 of your report on the standard Maximus. I Crosman’s numbers for the Euro, which is in the same power range as the Wildfire, are correct, then that rifle would require one half a pump per shot.
Of course the Maximus has a single shot bolt action, not a 12 shot revolving action, but the trigger is half the weight of the Wildfire. On the other hand, the Wildfire is two thirds the price of the Maximus Euro (direct from Crosman).
Thanks much,
Michael
Michael,
It could have less effort to cock, but the Maximus isn’t that hard to cock anyway.
To get lower power they probably lightened the striker weight and adjusted the valve. That would leave the cocking effort the same. While a stronger striker spring will get a little extra power (and a weaker one less) the difference isn’t as much as shortening the striker length or lightening the striker.
Bottom line, call Crosman.
B.B.
BB,
Interesting. If you are in to CO2, this would be a great addition to the collection. It is not my cup of tea though. I have always preferred a bolt action rifle, even with powder burners. I would choose the Maximus. Yes, it would take me much longer to kill off that pack of feral soda cans, but I could do it from much farther away. 😉
I can see where this would have appeal for many though, especially if you already have an air source. With such a low price, feral soda cans may become an endangered species.
Quite honestly can’t see the value of this rifle . By the time you add the pump ,you could have purchased the Gamo Swarm . 10 shots , better trigger , higher velocity.
Michaelr
Your not getting this gun.
Here check out this gun.
/product/evanix-speed-pcp-air-rifle-ambi-thumbhole-stock?m=2667/5255
Check out the price. And if you notice that’s refurbished. I can’t find one that’s not refurbished on the PA site anymore. So I’m thinking they don’t even sale this gun no more.
I had one. Not a very good gun for the price in my opinion. Especially for a battery operated gun. Was not very accurate either. And who wants to charge a battery and refill the air resivoir. Plus the guns action is loud as well as the sound when it fires. To me anyway. Just me but I like a quiet airgun.
Now take a FX Monsoon which I had 2 of them. One was a good one. The other went back 2 times and that was enough for me. Especially for what they want for one. Oh but they were accurate with the smooth twist barrel. But the one one that went back was not reliable at all. It would misfire and the exhaust valve would stick and bleed all the air out through the barrel. And that ain’t no fun. Especially if you hand pump a full resivoir after it dumps the air.
Again look at the price of the Monsoon and the Speed compared to the new Wildfire PCP.
To me the Wildfire is a big bargain compared to the other semi-auto repeater’s I mentioned. Heck I could buy a kid’s shooting club worth of the Wildfire compared to what I would spend for the other PCP guns I mentioned. Plus have a more reliable gun. And could be replaced easily for the cost of it.
And I could compare to a spring gun even. But the Wildfire is definitely not a Gamo or a Crosman or Benjamin spring or nitro piston gun. Which I have also had. The Wildfire can’t be compared to them. The Wildfire is a different kind of gun. It’s for rapid fire. If it shoots as reliably as a 1077 and is as accurate it will be a winner.
That’s the thing. There is different categories of guns. Firearms or air guns. So comparing a specific type of gun to a different type is probably not the best scenario. But compare a one similar type to another and that is were you will find one to be better than the other.
And now last but most important. Cost of a pcp verses springers and such. Yep got to buy a way to put air in a pcp. So cost for gun and cost for pump. Simple look at how much some springers cost and the cost of the semi-auto pcp’s I mentioned. Well a Wildfire and a hand pump would be close to equal of a springer and way cheaper than the high dollar semi’s. So to me a Wildfire is a bargain compared to others that shoot similar and equal or better than the others that don’t require a fill device.
And please I’m not directing my comment to you Michaer. Just felt it was the proper place to make my comment. And as it goes. My opinion only. Others will always have their own. 🙂
Michaelr,
I do not see me buying this either. It is just some folks would like to have a little plinker like this. Like I said, I would prefer the Maximus.
The Swarm is a different critter altogether. You are talking apples and bananas. One is a PCP and one is a sproinger. I will have to reserve judgement on it for now. I have heard some pretty good comments concerning that gimmick magazine feed, but I am going to want to see how it holds up after a few thousand pellets are cranked through them.
As for the Gamo trigger, I am certain it is better than what is on the Wildfire, but I am also certain it is nothing to write home about. They are usable and they have improved over the years and you can make them better if you know what you are doing.
Higher velocity? Certainly, but can you hit anything with it? It’s a sproinger. It is also meant to be a hunter. Can it put those ten shots inside of a one inch circle at twenty-five yards? I actually think it can. Hopefully BB will show us this soon.
Once you try out a nice PCP, you will not mind shucking out the bucks for support equipment. No, I would not buy this but as I pointed out, if you have the pump, etc. and you are also into CO2, you might like this little plinker. I personally will stick with my 1906 BSA. 😉
If you want a cheap pcp rifle I guess this is it. Is not really a semiauto , just a big revolver. As to the Gamo Swarm , early reports areit is accurate , reliable, a gas piston and $200 msrp. Both are plinkers , and I will probably go for that one.
This is not for me. As I said, if I want a cheap PCP I would go with the Maximus.
As for sproingers, I have a couple of really nice ones. I may pick up another in the near future, but it will most likely have a walnut stock. 😉
This model sold ina Walnut stock with adjustable comb as The Elite in England. I guess they won’t sell it to the Commoners across the Pond
It is sub 12 FPE.
I do not want a Gamo. Any Gamo.
In 22 cal , it gets 16- 19 fpe. A lot better than this 177 cal , do on that point it wins
It’s due, from when we dumped all that Tea in Boston Harbor, LOL!
I think it is great that Crosman sees what their customers are doing, taking existing air guns and modifying them and do the same. Offering a factory option to what they see happening or that some wish for, or may not even know that they want until they see it. I have many air guns, multi-pump, break barrel, side cocking, under lever, C02, and PCP. I like each for what it is, or the variation that it is! I have spent more on mods than on the guns themselves and respect Crosman for trying to offer to meet the desires of their customers and get that profit too. I am sure the Wildfire WILL be modified by someone also and hopefully will spur competing products and one may just be the next “must have one”.
BB
Aside from a hole for the pressure gage does the stock look identical to the 1077. I believe the wood stock from my 1077W would look nice on it and may be heavier, although the sales specs say they weigh ‘exactly’ the same, 3.75lbs, I think they may have used the same write up for both.
If so, it may even contribute to a better shot placement by reducing any stock movement induced by that 12lb trigger pull.
Follow up
Found the synthetic stocked 1077 listed at 3.11lbs elsewhere. So the wood is a little heavier.
I saw in HAM that Crosman was awarded a patent for their NP2. It said it might be for the piston buttons. I hope not as ARH and others have been doing such for many years. Crosman has the money to steal an idea and destroy other people. It would not be the first time such has happened.
RR,
Yes, I got the same press release from Crosman, but without the specific claims for the patent, it really isn’t informative.
B.B.
Looks like it needs less hammer strike. I will never understand why any airgun ships setup like this.
Wait,
I don’t get it….
Gun has a bad pressure fill gauge, 7 lbs trigger(YIKES), and takes 1 2/3 pumps per shot. What is the “cocking effort” of those pumps? Are the last pumps harder than the first?
My break barrel needs one “pump” per shot! Seems more efficient to me.
-Yogi
Yogi,
Yes, the final pumps are harder than the first ones. And many people feel like you that cocking a mainspring is more efficient. But the PCP is many times older than the spring-piston design, and there must be reasons for that.
B.B.
I think the reason is because animal bladders were invented before the piston was……
Is there a way to measure the pump stroke effort?
-Y
Yogi,
I have thought about that a lot. The answer is, no, there isn’t a good way to report pump stroke effort, because every person treats effort and work differently. No doubt the force can be measured, but what its effect will be on a person is a different story, and it’s the most important thing.
I will say this. To pump with a hand pump requires bending at the waist. If that bothers you, don’t try a hand pump. I have found that by elevating the base of the pump just 4 inches, the effort becomes much easier for me. But that is based on my dimensions. Every person will be a little different.
I used to be able to fill from a hand pump to 2000 psi by pumping it with one hand while seated. I noted during this test that is no longer possible. So, at 69, I am starting to lose upper body strength. Again, each person will be different.
I used to do a hand pump demonstration at airgun shows and saw these things. My wife, Edith, could fill a gun to 3000 psi, though it was difficult. But a man who weighed 145 lbs. could not do it. Even when he balanced his body weight on the pump handle it refused to go all the way down, once he passed about 2800 psi. Edith weighed less than 145 lbs. at the time she was doing this, so go figure!
However, 200 psi is much easier for most adults. As I mentioned in Part 1, I had Crosman’s lawyer pump the Discovery, and she was not even 5 feet tall. I wanted Crosman to make a video that showed a teenaged girl filling the rifle, but they never did it.
My online video shows me filling an airgun reservoir. Watch it and see what you think. It’s at the bottom of this article.
/article/Using_a_hand_pump_May_2006/30
B.B.
A fan of the 1077 for can chasing, running on clean air should improve the game considerably. With inexpensive pumps on hand now it will be a great combo to give this Christmas to my son for teaching the grandkids shooting safety and skills. One aspect I really like about the 1077, my son can securely lock the faux mag and rotary clips away and the rifle is secure without an investment in safe or locker.
I hope you include Qiang Yuan Training Pellets in your review. These are my first .177 wadcutters to reach for these days in the moderate power airguns. They just seem to always work well in wadcutter range platform independant.
huklbery,
Welcome to the blog.
I will try Qiang Yuan training pellets for you.
B.B.
Thanks for the link.
Seems a 4500 psi fill pressure would be quite a workout! It seems to be about the same effort to pump up a bike tire to 100 psi?
Boy, a leaking tank would ruin your day. How is the compressor series coming along? LOL.
Yogi
Yogi,
The compressor “series” is difficult to write. The darn thing just works. I use it and it works. It’s like reporting on a coffeemaker. It’s so simple and straightforward that I can’t think of new things to say about it — other than I bought it.
B./B.
The Air Venturi is my third compressor (early buyer of the shoebox when it was intended to be a $500 entry level compressor). Just a couple top offs in and I too like the no fuss and speed over the Omega I bought last year. Perhaps a round up article on the 2017 compressor field and the reasons why the AV entry is such a good value. I for one hope to use my Fed overpayment return next year on something other than a compressor if the AV Compressor turns out to be the reliable pump it appears to be.
B.B.,
You have the advantage (?) of having one that has been around the block a time or two. RR has a new one. Both updates will serve as good data. Yours will have the advantage of showing up any shortcoming’s sooner. Hopefully you received an “employee discount” as well as a “used” discount. At a cut in price in price,.. it would be hard to pass up. Most interesting is how long to rebuild time (vs the Shoebox) and what to do with the “rebuild kit” that A.V. includes,… but gives you ((no clue)) as to what to do with it.
Shoebox at least has a good site that walks you through using the kits. Maybe A.V. will follow suit with some on-line videos, pic and text support?
Chris
Chris,
Likely someone other than AV will come out with a overhaul video first. If you would be comfortable with overhauling an engine then this would not be much.
Chris,
Rebuild kit??? Didn’t get one with this compressor or with my car, either. I think you just use it.
B.B.
BB,
In the narrative for the 3rd string of Premier Lites you listed the high velocity as 603 fps , but your chart show 630 fps.
Heat,
Yep, good catch.
Chalk that one up to my lysdexia. 😉
B.B.
B.B. and everyone else here,
Often I have mentioned that I am not a hunter, and I am certainly not a hunter activist on either side. Hunting is A-O.K. with me. It is just not something I am cut out to do . Nevertheless, I do not recall reading any comments about this here, so I thought what the hay.
I had always thought Texas was hunter friendly, but apparently not. If you hunt wild hogs in TX, your parade will soon be rained on. The state is going to kill off as many feral hogs as they can with a mass poisoning of them with warfarin, a chemical/pest killer/heart medication (called Coumadin as a pharmaceutical) to make them bleed to death internally. Woe be to the hunter who eats meat from a hog that has warfarin in its system. Woe be to any critter (wolves, cougars) that eats them, too. Oh, and the feral hog feces will have Warfarin in it, too. I don’t know what that might do, perhaps nothing.
I know that rarely, in some areas in the Northern Great Lakes, white tail deer become too plentiful and occasional, controlled culling by hunters is a solution. Apparently Texas is anti-hunter; however, and would prefer just to poison the hogs.
Michael
Michael
Kind of alarming.
Michael,
Texas is currently suffering an epidemic of feral hogs. They are ruining agriculture here. That’s why they are machine-gunning them from helicopters.
Even with the poison there will still be pigs to hunt here.
B.B.
BB
That’s true. But like Michael said. There could be down fall by poisoning.
Wonder what their going to do with all the carcass lying around. That the other animals and hawks don’t eat.
I read the same news article in the Houston paper today also. Anytime man messes with nature or tries to adjust or tune the natural order of things, there will always be unintended consequences. They introduce nutria into Louisiana as a source of pelts but the critters escaped from their pens and now are a destructive nuisance. Smokey the Bear warns us about forest fires but the dead brush needs to be occasionally burned to prevent larger fires consuming the big trees. Introduce Asian carp to control the hydrilla scourge in lakes and then they end up crowding out the native fish species. I won’t even go into the pythons let loose by pet owners in the Everglades. DDT was once the “magic bullet” to get rid of agricultural pests but then the side effects were discovered and was discontinued.
There is a flood control reservoir near Houston that is overrun with hogs. A group suggested that they allow bowhunters to harvest the pigs and then donate the meat to Houston food kitchens for the hungry. Sounds like a win-win situation, right? Then someone had to bring up the point that only approved and inspected facilities could butcher the hogs for public consumption and there are few to none in the area. The concept went from win-win to no-go.
Just like bacteria have become more and more resistant to penicillin over time, the animals will develop a resistance to the poison. You cannot eradicate 100% of them. Personally, I was a hunter in high school and going feral hog hunting is still on my bucket list. Maybe this spring.
Bob
Bob
All very good words. As the saying goes. You don’t mess with mother nature.
I am not a hunter , unless something attacks. That being said this type of thing has the liberal stink to it .Anti gun, anti hunters love their morally superior and antiseptic solutions.Years ago a town in NJ had a Canada geese problem. So they humanely herded the dumb beasts into trucks , flooded them with carbon monoxide , 2500 of them , and gassed them to death . Wonder where they got that idea?. The Sierra Club would be so proud.
Michaelr,
I probably should not write this, first because i Am not a Texan — I am a born an bred Illini. Second, I happen to hab=ve personal old friends (undergra)
WHOA! Computer-jump-the-gun-ism!
Look, long story short, I happen to know this is not a right or left thing. I went to school years ago with old, lifelong buddies who are Texans and who are on both sides of the aisle in the TX Gov’t and Gov’t-Oriented “Interests.” This is not, I’ve been told, a D vs R thing. My old friends told me it is one interest vs. another interest within TX-only-thing (I.E. petty state politiics) . I know nothing other than that.
But I will say, as loudly as I can, that legal, ethical hunting is something the vast majority of Americans approve of, whether they themselves hunt (pretty near 90 percent of my extended family) or not (me). Hunting is a legal sport and past-time for many, and a necessary / subsistence for too many other Americans.
Michael
BB
I don’t get this gun. Power-wise, it is similar to the 1077 which costs $68. A Wildfire buyer will probably be a first-time PCP buyer, so he’ll have to fork out $180 for a hand pump in addition to the $150 for the gun. That comes to $330; that is $263 more than a 1077 for a gun that should not be compared to a proper PCP. It seems completely illogical to me. I agree with Yogi: a springer seems a much better option and if you want a repeater, get a Gamo Swarm. You will save $130 and get a much more powerful air rifle. Or spend $50 more and get a poper PCP like the SPA PR900W in .177. Also a repeater, accurate, more powerful and more shots per fill.
I’m bought two $80 readily available hand pumps that are about on par with the Benjamin unit. That brings the 2000 psi low end guns entry bar a lot more realistic…. So far more Chevy than Yugo in use, like the compressors the hand pumps too are rapidly expanding in options..
Yeah…but you could buy three 1077s and get change for the price of a wildfire
Who’s pump did you get?
The sponsor of the blog is Pyramyd and while they are great promoters of the sport they do not offer the low cost no name small dragon china pump. You can find them on the two big generic import sellers the auction and bookseller ones. I would not say its a bargain Hill pump but rather a half price Benjamin unit something that for 2,000 psi might be very good value for money.
Thanks for the info.
While I appreciate the quality of Pyramids products, before I go spend $200 on a maximus and another on $200 on a pump, I would like the opportunity to evaluate the pcp world with a 1/2 price pump (with the understanding I am giving something up for the reduced cost)
Vasco, I do see your point. But as B.B. or someone pointed out the other day, you have to look at it as prepaying for the air. Sooner or later, if you shoot a lot, the money spent on C02 will catch up to the pcp version. If I’m going to get into PCP, I too would chose a different gun. If I’m spending $180 on a pump, I want a better gun than that, like a discovery, Maximus or gantlet. That all said, if I were already into pcp, hence I already had a tank, hand pump or compressor, I might would buy a wildfire to plink with. Already having the airsource would me a world of difference. But that is just me.
Doc
Doc, you’re right. Spend $200 and buy a proper pcp as an entry into pcp or buy a Wildfire to add to your air rifle collection. It sounds tempting, bot I think I would rather get a 1077 and spend the $82 om something else, like a Crosman Vantage Nitro Piston.
You don’t get this gun, fine… don’t buy one.
I don’t get the FX500 or the RAW guns. Sure they are accurate and have many shots per fill, but they are butt ugly and overly expensive to boot. These are all subjective judgements.
Crosman has been making a tidy profit off of the 1077 for more than two decades. Now you can buy a “1077” that doesn’t need any stinking CO2 cartridges. You think they won’t sell?
There are scores of people that buy a $50 airgun. They then spend hundreds of dollars updating the gun with improvements and modifications. There are many cottage industries entirely devoted to customizing these cheap little guns. The guns are the 1377 and the 2240. Guess who makes them?
Is any of that logical? I don’t know, let’s ask Mr. Spock if it’s logical. Logic doesn’t even begin to enter into this sport/hobby/obsession. I own many many fine airguns. I will not be “that guy” and list my inventory or what I paid for them. But for me the cache of owning very fine airguns in no way diminishes the joy of shooting the cruder, lower priced models. Just look at BB for Christ’s sake. He has owned and/or shot the creme de la creme of air rifles. But what is his favorite of all time? A DIANA 27!
You don’t know who is most likely to buy a Wildfire. Personally, I think the most likely buyer would be a person who loves shooting his 1077 but hates depending on CO2 cartridges and happens to already own the tanks or pumps necessary to fill PCPs. But that would just be me just describing myself. So who knows?
I just can’t wrap my head around all the piss and vinegar that goes into pillorying a product that a person has never shot. I think Crosman will make another fortune off of this rifle, I don’t care either way because I don’t work for them or own any stock.
But that is just my not so humble opinion.
Wow Slinging Lead, you definitely need to calm down. I was just pointing out the obvious, not unleashing a nuclear holocaust on Crosman. In fact, I like their products. My first proper air rifle was a 766 American Classic of which I was very proud. I was fust stating my opinion. Such venom…my, my.
Vasco, If I were any more calm I would be comatose.
What you were pointing out were highly opinionated opinions. You don’t like Crosman’s Wildfire (even though you haven’t shot one.) I don’t like their crappy made in China breakbarrels (because I have actually owned one.) So even though I am speaking from experience and you are not, we are essentially on the same page in one respect.
If I were actually venomous I would be banned or suspended from this site in short order. So stop with the histrionics.
I’m calmer than you are dude.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjibEkDoXQc
You are right. Calmer, more experoenced, unbiased, clever anr handsome (I presume). I bow before your superiority and bid you good night.
Vasco,
Some thoughts and questions about some of your observations:
For me, a plinker in a Great Lake state (cold winters), a downside for the 1077 is CO2 is inefficient in cold weather and cools if one shoots more than once every 15 seconds or so even in the summer.
The SPA PR900W is a 3000 psi fill while the Wildfire is a 2000 psi fill. Whatever PCP I shoot will be filled by hand pump, not compressor. If the PR900W is regulated, how many shots from a 2000 psi fill? My 1077s are VERY accurate, so I hope the Wildfire will be, too.
Is the PR900W accurate?
Michael
Hi Micheal
I apologies for only responding now, but your response was at 03h45 (AM), South African time and I was fast asleep at the time. I am from South Africa and cold is not really something I consider when evaluating airguns, but you are right- it should be taken into consideration.
The PR900W is not regulated and I don’t know exactly how many shots you could get from 2000 psi (about 140 Bar), probably about 30. But you DO get 51 shots of >700 fps from 200 Bar (about 2900 psi) with Crosman Premier 10.5 gr pellets.
Accuracy is subjective, but you do get 4 mm (0.16″) groups centre-centre at 10 m and 13 mm (0.26″) c-t-c groups at 25 m (27 yards). That is plenty accurate in my book, but it depends on your own criteria.
Vasco,
Those figures sound accurate to me!
I had recently given up on PCPs until the Maximus and Wildfire, because they fill to just 2000 psi. I am a little disappointed in the steep velocity drop with each shot of the Wildfire, even with the first 12 shots.. I am only killing aluminum cans and spinner targets, but that steep a spread will affect accuracy at distances as short as 20 yards.
At the moment I am considering the Maximus Euro (low power) as well.
Michael
Vasco
HAHA! You sure knocked me off my high horse!
You’re alright in my book Vasco, no hard feelings.
Slinging Lead, Peace and all that. Come look me up if you are ever in South Africa.
South Africa is the second place I must visit before I die, (the first being Scotland since the majority of my ancestors were born there.)
Should I find myself fortunate enough to be in South Africa, I will definitely look you up Vasco, Thank you for the kindly offer.
Best regards,
Slinging Lead
So we’re you the heavy guy with the glasses or the guy with the long hair? Let’s try for that bicycle ride next week, weather permitting. We can hunt hogs
I’m Walter… shomer shabbos!
No, actually I am more like the Dude (guy with the long hair), laid back to a fault. Difference being that I am employed and no longer a chronic pot smoker.
I am sick as a dog right now, but should be right as rain next week. A bike ride would be great, especially if it is as beautiful out as it was today.
There are some hogs out on the Silver Comet Trail, but they are at least trying to lose weight so I don’t think we should shoot them.
Vasco
Kind of glad Slinging Lead stated his points. I’m kind of like that at times. Figured I would just kind of hang back this time.
As I say. Time will tell.
But I do believe Crosman has a winner with the Wildfire.
Gunfun 1
I am sure Crosman will sell many and make lots of money. Ford did the same with the original Mustang back in the ’60s. I loved the Mustang and it was great, but is was NOT a good sports car.
Vasco
True but it served its purpose for the time and people loved it.
I believe the same will happen with the Wildfire.
I’m waiting for your accuracy tests. The 10 shot magazine in my 1077 does somewhat dictate what pellets I can use. A pellet with a loose fit I won’t try, as a pellet might slip in the magazine and jam the works. I just found that the mechanism that allows you to move the barrel forward should this happens seems to be jammed. My 1077 always liked the Crosman hollow point pellets as far as accuracy, and he fit in the magazine was perfect. It had to be pushed in place and fit tight enough that a slipping pellet was never a worry.
The limiting factor on my 1077 was the trigger. The action of it sometimes, was like a two stage. The initial pull was hard, then it would get past that, and the rest of the pull was noticeably lighter. The problem was, the trigger action was not always like that. That may be why my 10 yard groups weren’t so good. I think a 1/2″ group was about as good as it gets. As an example, yesterday I broke out my Crosman Model 66 (is this model discontinued now ?). At 11 yards almost half my groups were 1/4″ center to center, and with 3-4 different pellets. The 1077 had a 3×9 Leapers with AO, while the 66 has an NCStar 4 power compact without AO. The trigger on the 66 is really quite good.
Birdmove,
I was about to say I thought a half-inch group (for 10 or more shots) at 10 meters was good, but a quarter-inch group is even better! Given this DAO trigger, I doubt I can get the Wildfire to shoot that well.
B.B.
Those groups were all 5 shots.
B.B., Looking back at your report on the 1077, I’m not finding the FPS variation in shots too bad off. In fact with the pellets tested, the Wildfire is a littler closer than the 1077. The variation with the Wildfire was from 35 to 50 fps, depending on the pellets you used. The variation with the C02 powered 1077 was from 37 to 56 fps with the pellets you tested it with. So, if history holds true, I would suspect the Wildfire to be as accurate as the 1077.
Doc
Doc,
That’s what I am hoping.
B.B.
Just checked the in stock date on the Wildfire.
They moved it from 2/28/17 to 3/9/17 now. I figured that would happen. Just exactly why I didn’t preorder yet. I have seen items keep getting moved back later and later.
Kind of a bummer. I was looking forward to ordering one on the 28th.
Hm. I’ve got a replacement for my 1077 on the brain. However, for rapid-firing shooting at 5 yards, I can get 60 shots out of one CO2powerlet, so I might stick with the 1077.
Last night, I made up for lost time by firing 90 shots with my IZH 61 which took about 10 minutes. I believe only the 1077 can shoot faster among my collection. The results weren’t too bad. But I also noticed that they weren’t terribly different from the kinds of groups that I have been shooting for years which leads me to ask what I have been accomplishing. Having a lot of fun is primary. Also it’s worth noting that my distance is so short that it is not easy to see variation. But even so, I wonder if this might say something about athletic performance. Once you get the basics down, improvement will be slower. Also, as I read in a book on swimming fitness, you don’t need to exceed your capacity every time you workout. That is difficult and can even lead to breakdown. The goal for long-term improvement is to reach your limit every time, and your body will respond by improving. And maybe in the case of shooting, it’s not about gaining new abilities so much as being more aware of what you can do. This would explain a comment by ultimate shot, David Tubb, who said, “Your hold might be as good as mine, but you won’t know it.”
Matt61
Matt
So are you going to send your 1077 back to Crosman or buy another?
They (Crosman) recently re-released the wood-stocked 1077. They haven’t been made for a decade or so, so when I saw that they were making them again I couldn’t buy one fast enough. The wood stock adds the perfect amount of weight to this gun and makes it feel less toy-like. And the one I received happens to have really nice grain too, but that is just the luck of the draw.
That David Tubb line is priceless. Thanks for that.
Hi BB
I was just looking through Pyramyds Air’s New Products page and came across an item that you should earmark for a review when it gets in stock.
It’s the new Air Venturi Rail Lock Spring Compressor! The concept is so simple I wonder why nobody invented it before now.
I”m curious to hear what you think of this interesting new tool.
Cheers
Dave
Dave,
That one has been on the front burner ever since the SHOT Show.
B.B.
B.B.,
Yes, it has been on the front burner of many of us since then.
Problem is, I made my own DIY spring compressor shortly before that report! Oh well. It was a success, which is rare for my attempts to apply my brain to tools and wood (and a large C clamp).
What I often remind myself of is just how much more knowledge i have because of this site. Had I not been a devoted reader here, I would not have even known what a spring compressor is, much less known how to construct one,
And I have Tom Gaylord to thank for my not putting a hole in any part of our house or piece of furniture with an air rifle spring!.
Michael
Good Afternoon to all, I just discovered this recent blog and with all the comments about different types of pressurized air and the way it is used in air guns,wow!You guys are giving me an education,thanks.I have had a couple of Crosman air pistols,a #1322 in .22cal.Gosh,that must have been around 1978?ish?I know I was a young teenager then.Crosman or a Sheridan which a friend’s dad had,he “barrowed”and we would shoot together at times.Both guns had stock open sights then.There was not a large selection to choose from where I grew up,money was in short supply then.I used to target shoot out in the barn or in the cellar at our family home then.We actually had a coal furnace to heat our house when I was a kid,,anybody remember that?After starting on a Daisy,thats what really started me to learn how to shoot.Toto
Toto, good to hear from ya! I’ve shot air guns as long as I can remember. When I stumbled on the blog, I only then realized what little I knew. I learn something new about once a week on here if not more than that. I too used to have one of those 1322 in the late 70’s you speak of. I loved it. Killed a lot of snakes with it. All head shots (only the bad snakes lol). I trade her years ago. I can’t remember what for now. Had a metal breach and metal sights back then. Oh, and I too started on a Daisy. I still have my first one.
Doc
T52
I got my driver’s license in the mid 70’s. Your words definitely bring back memories. I grew up on a farm and I do remember the coal cellar. We even had a wood burning stove in the house that was used for heating. I sure had a blast shooting air guns, rimfire, shotguns and even some centerfire rifles as a kid. There was some good times happening back then that I’ll never forget and now thank God for. Memories I will never forget.
Toto.
Welcome!
My hope is that like many of us you become addicted to this blog as a week-daily ritual. It has enriched my life significantly — seriously. If you keep comng back, you will quickly develop rather profound relationships with B.B. (Tom Gaylord) and the regular commenters, of whom I like to think of myself.
Welcome to you, and do come back with your comments and questions.
Michael
BB,
In part 2 of your 2014 evaluation of the 1077, how many shots were you shooting in each string and what was the ambient temp, if you remember? I would like to compare with my recent results testing my 1077s. Do you think the 88 gr adapter gave you more stable performance than a single 18 gr cartridge would have? I ask because I get much more stable velocities in my QB78 with both cartridges installed as opposed to only one.(indoors at 70 F)
Halfstep,
Ten shots per string. Temp was 70 degrees (office).
Yes, the 88 gram adaptor gave more consistency because it never ran out of gas.
B.B.
I meant 12 gram cartridge , of course, don’t know where 18 gr came from. Too close to bedtime to post, I guess!
Michael, Thanks for your welcome!It is cool to share with like minded people. Things are settling down a good bit in my life and I can have more time to devote to things that really interest me now.I just recently shot six different pellets in .22 cal to see how they shot in relation to the bullseye without adjusting my scope.I did this because I wanted to chrony them all at distance and make sure I wouldn’t hit my diffuseres.9yrds.also at that distance I wast to fiqure out what the f.p.e. is.Five of the six pellets groups I tested touched either the bottom or left side of bull.I’m talkin 1″ stick em Target Spot w/clover-leaf group.The one group that didn’t touch center ,H&N Baracuda Extreme,only missed by about 3mm.I will have to pacify myself with testing and much practice/K98.I have a Air Hawk/.177 w/a few different pellets to test there also.What fun!I guess. I,like most, test and improve my own cababilities as well.
Believe it or not this was the gun that interested me most from the SHOT show–it just looks like too much fun and I’ve already got the pump! I’ve also been eyeing that wood stock 1077 already so my interest was pre-piqued for the Wildfire. After B.B.’s velocity evaluation though the difference between the Wildfire and the 1077 is less than I thought. The accuracy test will probably decide it for me. Initial report (think it was HAM) indicated accuracy was not as good as the 1077 so I’ll be watching closely for part 3. Sure am thankful for the PA Blog which is such a great resource!
BB could you use the new Air Venturi 13 oz tank to convert a 1077 to hpa or is 1100 psi to much for 1077 seals? I shoot a regulated 1000 psi hang tank in my CO2 Mac 1 LD all day without issue. Just wondering.
@Slinging Lead-Obviously you’ve never seen, held or owned a RAW. They are in a different world in which my RAW 1000X .25 shoots sub MOA groups at 100 yards. The fit, finish, quality is beyond reproach. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but “butt ugly” it’s not.
Kevin
Yes that would work great. I experimented doing exactly that with a Maximus and had great results. Lots of usable shots per fill. Like 70 shots and same fps that it shoots at on a 2000 psi fill.
Here’s a couple short video’s of the Maximus with the stock cut and another with the stock off and a 1720T pistol grip assembly and a 1399 stock on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFSmrfRP71k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE8OvOJvmSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asozt_-2luo
Kevin
Here’s what I used. And I didn’t need that fitting that comes with it. I hooked the hose right to the fill fitting on the gun.
/product/air-venturi-30-co2-coiled-remote-line-male-female-foster-quick?a=4638
/product/air-venturi-tank-with-adapter-13-cu-in-aluminum-3-000-psi?a=7456
Kevan,
That would work. A CO2 valve will usually handle up to 1200 psi or so.
B.B.
Thanks Guys for info.
Gunfun1 I was originally going to purchase the Venturi tank for an E.B.O.S. and CO2 bulk air QB 78. I was thinking that it would have a multitude of uses, since I have a Omega Super Charger. To fill a CO2 tank is a 70 mile round trip and HPA is available in my shop. Nice videos that show the potential of the Venturi tank and an adaptation that could be used on an existing 1077 to basically turn it into a Wildfire. It will be interesting to do a chrony test with this set up and see how it compares to a Wildfire.
Kevan
Thanks about the video’s. And check this out. Here is what I have the Air Venturi bottle on now. I made the adapter from delrin. It just holds the bottle on the gun. No air passes through it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QV4WxGY4z0
Gunfun1
I see a Venturi HPA bottle in my future attached to my 1077,QB 78, EBOS, Ham 850, Mac 1 LD, 2250,etc.
Thanks for your input.
Kevan
All good. And hope you let us know if you try out the Air Venturi bottle.
Will be waiting to hear.