Podium Basic Wadcutter.
This report covers:
- The test
- FWB 600
- Crosman Challenger 2009
- HW 30S
- Result?
- Webley Hurricane
- FWB P44
- Discussion
- Summary
I read your comments about testing pellets and tried to extract the ones that made the most sense. Almost everyone wants me to test a wadcutter at 10 meters and only at that range. Many want me to test them in 10 meter target airguns exclusively, but not everyone.
This is an odd test because I’m testing a pellet and not an airgun.
Today I’m testing the Podium Basic wadcutter from Podium Pellets. The tin says they weigh 8.4 grains and when I weighed 10 of them I saw this:
Weights
1 – 8.3 grains
1 – 8.4 grains
4 – 8.5 grains
2 – 8.6 grains
1 – 8.7 grains
1 – 9 grains
The test
I shot them from 10 meters in groups of five per airgun. I will tell you how things went when we discuss each airgun. I shot them straight from the tin which is how I test all pellets unless I tell you differently. Let’s get started.
I shot them in three air rifles and two air pistols. Two of the three rifles were 10-meter target rifles and the third was a sporting rifle. One air pistol was a target pistol and the other was a sporting pistol.
FWB 600
The FWB 600 target rifle is my most accurate target air rifle. It eclipses the FWB 300S by a small margin. At 10 meters it put five Podium Basic pellets into a group measuring 0.433-inches between centers. In previous tests the FWB 600’s best 10-meter group was 0.043-inches for 5 RWS R10 Match Heavy pellets and the worst group was 0.127-inches with Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets.
The FWB 600 put five Podium Basic Wadcutters into a 0.433-inch group. This rifle does not like this pellet!
Crosman Challenger 2009
I tried the Podium Basic in the Crosman Challenger target rifle next. It put five into a 0.401-inch group at 10 meters. The previous best 10-meter Challenger group was five JSB Simply wadcutters in 0.143-inches. The worst was H&N Finale Match High Speed, with five in 0.398-inches. So in this instance the Podium Basic was not far off the worst pellet.
The Crosman Challenger 2009 put five Podium Basic pellets into 0.401-inches at 10 meters.
HW 30S
The sporting rifle I tried the pellet in was the HW 30S that Pyramyd Air doesn’t sell. Our history has shown this rifle to be one of the best sporter-type spring piston air rifles on the market. The Beeman R7 that Pyramyd AIR does sell is this same rifle by a different name.
The trigger on my HW 30S is quite light and released before I was ready on the first shot. That was a called pull to the right. The other four pellets landed in a group measuring 0.502-inches between centers. The first shot opened the group to 1.101-inches between centers.
Shot one from the HW 30S went to the right in a called pull for 1.01-inches. The other four hung together in 0.52 inches.
Previously the best group at 10 meters was five JSB Exact 8.44-grain domes in 0.49-inches between centers and the worst group was five RWS Basics in 0.77-inches. I’d say the Podium Basic is about as accurate in the 30S as many premium pellets. That disregards the one called pull.
Result?
In my opinion the Podium Basic pellet is not a target pellet. It’s an average plinking pellet that may do well in some airguns, but in no way is it a competition pellet.
In the one sporter I tested, it seems to be about as accurate as the average premium pellet.
Webley Hurricane
For the sporting air pistol I chose the Webley Hurricane. It put five Podium Basics into 1.676-inches between centers. Previously the best Hurricane group was the H&N Baracuda with a 4.50mm head with five in 1.346-inches at 10 meters. The worst was the Gamo Match pellet with five in 2.215-inches at 10 meters. The Podium Basic is running about average in the Hurricane.
The Webley Hurricane put five Podium Basic pellets into a 1.676-inch group at 10 meters.
FWB P44
The target pistol I tested the Podium Basic in was the FWB P44. It put five in 0.547-inches at 10 meters. The previous best for the P44 was five Vogel pellets in 0.242-inches. The worst was five H&N Finale Match Pistol pellets in 0.815-inches at 10 meters. That puts the Podium Basic smack dab in the middle with this pistol.
The FWB P{44 put five Podium Basics into a 0.547-inche group at 10 meters
Discussion
Based on what I see here the Podium Basic wadcutter is an average plinking pellet. The weights vary a lot and could cause some dispersion downrange.
Summary
The Podium Basic pellet is an American-made wadcutter. It fluctuates in weight more than premium pellets but at 10 meters it’s still reasonably accurate.
Everyone,
This one might have been on me. I thought I scheduled this post for the 10th, but WordPress says I scheduled for the 11th. Sorry,
BB
It’s ok Tom. A pleasant surprise is always welcome.
Now you have a 3-day weekend. That’s not a bad thing.
Hopefully Podium Pellet will be encouraged to improve their products. The more FM sees “Made in USA,” the happier he is.
FM
Big Ditto here! Would love to see some bbs made in the USA again too.
Doc
In most of my air rifles, none anywhere near the quality of those used in his test, It’s hard to beat two RWS wad cutter pellets. Either the goid old 7.0 grain Basic, or the 8.2 grain Meisterkugeln (rifle pellet). One of these will invariably shoot the best. There may be some very high end expensive ones that would outshoot these, but I’m not buying them. I tried one if these high enders, and found them a waste of $$. I have an older model Hatsan Alpha, for $42 from Amazon. That fun little shooter prefers the Crosman (yes, Crosman!) 7.0 grain round nose pellet. Who, what, when, where, and why? I don’t have a clue. But they just work in that gun.
At 2 cents per shot, these Podium Basic Wadcutters deliver practice grade accuracy, as advertised. HN Excite Econ II are currently 1.6 cents per shot. But if they work well in any of my guns, I would definitely buy several tins with the 4 for 3 discount.
BB,
How is the new schedule working out for you? The last couple of years before I retired I went from working 5 days a week to 4 days a week. It made a huge difference for me.
David Enoch
David,
That happened at the same time my sister passed away and I am the Trustee of her estate. Three days a week has given me more time to drive up to Tulsa to settle affairs, but her bills are currently a concern.
BB
Thank you BB, and it was a pleasant surprise to see your comments on an off day. These pellets may not be target level but seem to be good enough for informal practice. Best, I am glad to see that they are made here. If they sell well enough maybe they have the means and incentive to upgrade their machinery and processes to get a step up.
Henry
Henry_TX,
You may be right about: “These pellets may not be target level but seem to be good enough for informal practice.” But only the Basic one Tom has tested there should be some World Class pellets that they have as well!
See my post below.
shootski
B.B. and Readership,
I kept looking at the pellets in your group photographs; Pilkington Competition and Vogel Pellets kept popping into my mind…
So i searched for both:
https://podiumpellets.com
3107 W. Colorado Ave #301
Colorado Springs, CO 80904
and then for Vogel pellets:
https://vogelusa.com/pellets.html
3107 W. Colorado Ave #301
Colorado Springs, CO 80904
Could they possibly be the same pellets? LOL!
shootski
PS: BUY USA! BUY USA! BUY USA!
shootski,
Yes.
BB
B.B and Readership,
I believe the first time i read a version of this it was on the Pilkington Competition site:
https://vogelusa.com/pellet-resources.html
It is a great resource for EVERY SHOOTER about those Test Targets you occasionally find in the box with your new airgun…it is an enjoyable read to say the least ;^)
shootski
Those pellets are their practice grade. I am not 100% sure but believe they gather up all the pellets left over at the end of a run and combine those with other left over pellets. So let’s say they make a run of 100,000 pellets, fill tins with 500 pellets, and they have 3500+/- pellets left over. After a number of runs they have a pile of left over pellets. Those left overs from numerous runs get combined and sold off as practice/plinking pellets. The guy that owns that company is a great guy. Pyramyd needs to pay for your trip up to CO Springs and do a tour. They may become a real player for affordable pellets during this tariff war. They sell match grade pellets. They also sell the rejects, left overs, etc for plinking. I think you tested the latter.
Brazos,
And this is an example of how BB learns from this blog!
BB
I think we need to establish some sort of rating system or solid description for pellets. It would most likely turn out to be a higher rating for some airguns over others but using terms like:
Reasonably accurate?
1 You will never be able to hit a bullseye, or anything else, all the time. Depends on the distance.
2 Or you can hit the target most of the time but never in the same place. Depends on the size and luck.
3 Not good enough for accurate formal target shooting or practice to achieve the same. Inaccurate feedback.
4 It is great for informal target shooting where no one is keeping score or plinking fun.
5 It should be “Reasonably” low cost with this description.
Informal Practice.
Practice for what?
1 Hitting your intended target, paper or can, while plinking.
2 Or developing safe and accurate shooting skills.
Personally, I would prefer to do serious target shooting practice with a premium pellet to see how you are doing.
I believe this testing procedure BB has come up with is a good shortcut to determine a pellets’ worth, overall. Each gun will react differently.
I don’t expect him to continue this for every pellet out there, unless it is presented as something new and special, but he gave us a way if you want to do so yourself rather than wait for feedback from the internet. This Blog included.
How about a1 to 5 scale, like stars, for accuracy with a well-defined performance description for each number. Kind of like grading collectable coins.
Haven’t actually checked customer feedback on pellets. Need to look into that from now on. But
unless they test it like BB it’s only hearsay, or for their airgun. Would need many feedback results.
Shootski, will be interested in cause of Helicopter crash in Hudson River. Worked on them for almost 10 years. Appears to be a major mechanical failure for sure but the cause? I know in large helicopters the rapid loss of a single blade will result in a jolt so severe it could snap everyone’s neck. A failure of the drive shaft to the rear blades could mess up everything. Same with a failed main blade transmission or engine explosion. Most have bird ingestion protection. Hard to tell if they lost the entire rotor head.
Bob M,
Two of my Classmates (that went helicopters) died during initial helo training after a main rotor blade separated on their Bell Ranger and both died of spinal cord snapping when their necks were broken.
The NYC FOX video of this crash appears to show the entire tail and at minimum the tail rotor is gone.
shootski
Bob,
What about rating the accuracy by its Minute Of Angle (MOA) at a specific distance?
For the FWB 600 target (above) it would be 3.8 MOA
For the P44, 4.8 MOA
You can convert MOA back to inches or millimeters at any time.
I’m using this calculator…
https://www.indecorous.com/bullseye/moacalc.html
Just an idea.
Hank
That’s a fantastic idea. I love the fact that it’s quantifiable. The only issues I see are the individual differences between guns and pellet tins. Some guns just seem to shoot particularly well or poorly with a particular pellet due to how the planets were aligned when the barrel was made or something. Then there’s the fact that not all tins of the same pellet are equal either. I’m sure these issues could be overcome by the use of some sort of standardized testing however.
BB,
Do you think you would be able to test the weight distribution of 30 pellets as a standard?
Once I decided to go through the whole tin of my training pellets just to see what is the reality regarding pellet weight and I discovered checking 10 pellets weight is not enough.
Anyway, I like to see the information on a pellet tin like this “practice grade” or “plinking” – and it is fine, not expensive pellet, for fun or just for some training without high amitions. What makes me mad is “final match” everywhere… and you can’t hit the planet.
Tomek,
I do what I can to get a test completed in the time I have. Right now my time is split between this blog and traveling 300 miles to act as the Trustee of my late sister’s estate.
I will consider what you ask.
BB
Another Tomek-ism for the record books: “you can’t hit the planet.”
That’s cooler-sounding than when “you can’t hit the broad side of a barn…when you are inside it.”
Tomek, you are so fun to have on this blog!
Roamin Greco,
🙂 🙂 🙂 … I will have to create some custom tomekisms T-shirt soon…
Tomek,
I typically check 25 pellets from a tin.
If measuring goes as expected then I’ll use that tin “unsorted” for normal shooting.
If the sample shows a lot of variance, then I’ll sort the whole tin separating out the best pellets and use the worst pellets for breaking in a new airgun, learning the trigger or rough practice where the focus is not on down-range results.
Hank
That is a very good idea Hank! Just use waste pellets for breaking in or just to warm up the system (which I always do first anyway).
these seem good enough for me. i’ll try a tin when it’s time to restock. i finally measured my backyard range the other day. it’s 25 ft on the nose. i still haven’t ended up testing/ sighting in my mtr77sp any further yet, wind, other factors. i hope to get to it monday or tuesday if weather cooperates
Tom,
Given the background of these pellets courtesy of Brazos I think you have to expand the airguns these pellets can and will be used in. How different are barrels of target pistols and rifles from the ordinary airguns? Will it shoot similar target groups using the P3/P17 for pistols and the Daisy 880 and Crosman 760 for rifles? I’m sorry to suggest more work in your limited time but I think this is a necessary expansion.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
The difficulty I have with more testing of any one pellet is this—a couple readers say they are interested in knowing this or that, but when I test it and write it up, very few people bother reading or commenting. I agree that individuals need to know more about these things, but the readership of this blog around the world doesn’t seem to care. They seem to want to read about the next shiny new airgun that has a fancy name that intrigues them.
Therefore, I have to be careful what I do write, or I end up writing a lot for a very few people. When I say I’m considering something, this is what I consider. Is it worth it to satisfy the curiosity of a few just to lose the interest of many?
BB
“but the readership of this blog around the world doesn’t seem to care. They seem to want to read about the next shiny new airgun that has a fancy name that intrigues them”
BB
I am a part of the readership of this blog around the world for many years. I never realized what your statement describes. On the contrary, based on almost everyone’s comments, I always thought that readers care deeply for what you write. It’s very disappointing to know that you have such an opinion for the majority of them. Then again you may know something that I can’t see despite my everyday visit here. Either way, what a pity.
Bill,
When I say what I said I am not referring to the several hundred subscribers who have bothered to register so they can comment. I refer to the thousands of non-registered readers. When I do a report like today’s that readership drops way off.
When we started this blog in 2005 I said there are no dumb questions. That still holds true, but I can only see a tiny fraction of those who read the blog through the comments. I read what you guys say and base my reports on that. For the most part it works, but when I try drilling down on a single question, people drop off. That’s why I don’t go deeper into tests like reader Siraniko mentions.
BB
Personally, I think it is up to us readers to take what B.B. is able to do and then add to the collective wisdom with our comments. We can all compare notes if we have information to share.
Absolutely!
Practice? For what? How to blame the pellet for your low score?
All I have ever bought for my Izzy is RWS R10 Pistol wadcutters. Why? Because that is the best shooting pellet for that air pistol.
All I ever bought for my FWB 601 when I owned it was the RWS R10 Rifle wadcutters. Why? Because that was the best shooting pellet for that air rifle.
How can one practice being their best when not using the best? How do you tell when the miss is due to your technique, the airgun or the pellet?
Hey, I do understand budgets. Being of Scottish descent 😉 , I do understand getting the most for your money. There are times though when pinching that penny is not a good idea.
If all you are doing is killing off a bunch of feral soda cans at ten to twenty yards, who cares what you are using for an airgun or pellet? If you happen to miss, shoot again.
Now, if you are wanting to have a winning score at ten meters, you had better care. Every shot counts. Should you not practice winning?
RR
Well said!
Ed
I just went to their website and discovered that they market a domed pellet. Not only that, but the tin is completely foam lined. The quality of this domed pellet looks to be quite impressive. I just may have to give them a try.
I’m a strong believer in testing pellets but I also believe that you have to do the testing to find out what works best in your airgun.
Generic pellet testing in some gun has no bearing on how it will shoot in the model of gun you have. Testing in gun types (springers or PCPs) means little as even testing between the same model and caliber can give different results as variances in mechanical tolerances and the factory tune have a bearing.
I can take a PCP and a pellet and I can change the accuracy from poor to excellent by making changes to the tune.
In testing different pellets in an airgun you can see huge variations in accuracy. The attached picture shows the results of changing the pellet weight.
So which pellet is “bad” and which is “good”? All 5 shot groups are of JSB pellets proven to be accurate in my other rifles. Here I’m showing that the gun (and tune) is a major variable.
My conclusion is that pellet performance is based on their quality of manufacture and they can be inspected to confirm that consistent in weight and size.
Whether the pellet brand/weight/design will work well in your airgun is something you have to test yourself. And, for me, that’s part of the fun.
Just my 2 cents.
Hank
Yesterday I was at the range testing re-loads for accuracy in my M1 (yeah, I know – that’s an oxymoron). But I was fortunate to have a new set of eyes for the testing – the Junior GA air rifle champion! He’s going to the Jr. Olympics next week in Anniston for .22 rimfire (he wanted some outdoor practice at my club since the Olympics are held outdoors). As he was practicing, I was talking to his father (former Marine and police dept. shooting instructor) as he was sorting pellets. He only visually inspects them – no weight, no gage! I sent him the url for the pellet gage but was wondering if BB had considered also using that gage on these pellets.
Fred formerly of the Demokratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in rain soaked GA
Fred,
Yes, I considered it. But as I said before, most readers won’t tolerate that degree of information. They will say they do, but when I post a detailed test they fail to read it.
BB
B.B.,
I feel you pain.
On the blog depth of interest by readers as well as Executor.
I was the Executor on my mother’s Estate but i only needed to travel 143 miles and did it by fast train most of the time. It still has my siblings thinking i’m here to fix all THEIR PROBLEMS…just had a call from my older sister today :^l
Hope you get away CLEANLY!
shootski
Well B.B.,
At least they make nice clean holes!
Have a nice weekend everybody!
-Yogi
Looking at the picture, it appears to have a thick skirt and not to likely to expand into the rifling much.
Not good, or bad, certainly would help in avoiding pellet distortion, but may be limited to some barrels that can make the most of it for accuracy or require a pellet gage check for variations in size to find the one size that works best.
But then again it may engage all barrel rifling well. Some deeper than others. A pellet push through would probably be a good check for engagement.
B.B.,
Just tried to REPLY to Bob M and got this:
MalCare WordPress Security Plugin – Malware Scanner, Cleaner, Security Firewall Firewall
Blocked because of Malicious Activities
Reference ID: 107562861267f9914cf17f9
Why?
Even after doing a History Clear, Logging Out, Shutting Down, and restarting Chrome it still did this.
I did a Cold Restart and got to send this to you.
shootski
shootski,
Forwarded to IT
BB
Shootski.
A-I probably screwed up. It reads and prints 2006 spoken as 20 O six. Misplaced trust.
I have Malwarebytes and McAfee installed on my end. Forgot to cancel one.
You can fool some security systems some of the time but Word Press? They never screw up, right? 🙂
They must be watching you and your past has caught up with you. 🙂
Or you have beat them to the punch so many times they seek revenge. Sounds good anyway.
Bob M,
Given.
I have a low tolerance.
I live independent of worry.
More i will not say.
shootski
PS: I hope the border goes quiet for you now.
Shootski.
NYC helo crash. Looks like a maintenance issue. “Jesus” nut that holds rotor head to the transmission was missing. Rotor head with blades probably came off, blew fuselage nose down tipping tail up into the path of spinning blades shearing it off. Fuselage continued to flip upside down. Nasty ending.
A “Safe for Flight” inspector may be in trouble. I was one. You never ever sign off an inspection without personally verifying everything was done by the book. Unlikely part failure. Locking pin or bolt would be safety wired to prevent backing off or falling out. They called it a Jesus pin but more than likely it was a nut with a locking pin.
In hind sight I’m beginning to back away from defining a pellet as accurate because of the target grouping results. Sounds odd bit it but there is no guarantee everyone will get the same results using it in a different airgun. Great for someone to identify it as so for their own airgun.
More accuracy in wording its intended use or design would probably work better. As was mentioned earlier,
throwing the word “Match Grade” on a tin of plinking quality pellets will only lead to shooter confusion and disillusion.
A pellet will need to develop a reputation for being accurate but it’s no guarantee it will be in your airgun. Just increases the chance that it will. No way around it, you need to shop around to find the one that works best. Properly identifying pellet design and quality may save you time.
But what company is going to call a tin discarded runoff or substandard, but cheap.
In my opinion, we need some carefully worded and defined terms that save face and won’t mislead us.
Podium Basic sounds like an oxymoron. You’re at a shooting match with some ordinary basic pellet for practice or it’s your average basic match grade pellet?
Ahh but in the small print “Practice Grade”. Perfect description. Not the best but good enough and cost effective for some accurate shooting. Just match it to the right airgun.
Podium is the company name not being up to shoot for competition, but I assume, more or less, it was picked to Identify them as makers of fine target shooting pellets. Good for us!
Bob M,
The potential for that inspection to have caused the crash is both high and SAD.
Although i had trust in the folks that worked on my aircraft and did a through PreFlight before every flight on PMCF (Post Maintenance Check Flights) i conducted Open Panel/under Cowling checks above and beyond the normal PreFlight. If we were remote deployed i checked in with the maintenance crew on their food, hydration, and creature comfort needs. It also, truth be told, gave me a chance to quietly judge their work.
Hank has covered my thoughts on pellet (projectile) uniformity testing/inspection and you seem to be on the same path. Each barrel is a new venue for performance DELTAs; without even considering the entire mechanical shooting systems contribution to additional variance.
shootski
Bob,
If the bolt that holds on the rotor head was missing why could he take off, it would seem to me that if that bolt was missing as soon as the attempt to launch the rotor would have left the chopper. Of course if the retaining pin was left out the bolt could have come lose and caused the issue.
Mike
Mike,
Helicopters are subject to a lot of vibration. It can get so bad you can hardly read the instruments. If the part that retains the rotor head is a threaded device and the item that keeps it from unscrewing is missing it will unscrew from vibration over time.
When you mount a critical part, say a tail rotor gear box, you need to remove all paint from the contact surfaces prior to installation otherwise the vibration will vaporize the paint between the parts and the resulting gap will render the torque applied to the mount bolts useless and the bolts can back off. The slightest amount of vibration will eventually shake things till they fail and self-destruct.
They still have not identified the exact cause ‘officially’. It can take a year and by then it’s no longer news and we never hear about it again. They need to be really careful in deciding who is at fault for liability.
Bob,
I missed what you were saying, I thought you were saying that the bolt holding the rotor was missing but you were actually saying the retaining clip that keeps the bolt on was missing. Makes more sense that way. Yes without the retaining clip the bolt backs off and boom the rotor leaves the craft. Very sad the loss of lives, prayers for the families and friends of those lost.
Mike
After reading this review, the first time, I had a thought that I couldn’t quite bring to the forefront and it finally occurred to me.
A friend of mine, that was a fan of Japanese martial arts, talked about learning to shoot the long bow. He told me that you practice the form, over and over, until you perfect the form. If your form is perfect, there is no question that the target will be hit.
I see these pellets as a way for repeatable practice to help develop your form and consistency without breaking the bank.
Enjoy your practice.
Bill
BB,
“Previously the best group at 10 meters was five JSB Exact 8.44-grain domes in 0.49-inches between centers”.
Is that a typo? 0.49 inches is a terrible 10m group for a HW30S with JSB Exacts. Was it actually a 25yd group?