This report covers:
- Skout
- What exists
- Technology
- The whole story
- Air Venturi
- Hatsan
- PileDriver
- Crosman
- The Icon
- Benjamin Bulldog .457
- Benjamin Armada semi-automatic
- Summary
Today is my second look at the SHOT Show 2022. I’ll begin with the Skout air rifle whose developers claim is “The world’s most advanced competition air rifle.”
Skout
As I said at the end of the Day One report, with a tagline like that I was spring-loaded to lecture them. But first I wanted to see what they had.
What exists
The Skout, as currently envisioned, doesn’t exist. What they showed us at SHOT were two inoperable prototypes — a rifle and a bullpup. They told Rossi Morreale it would be six months to production. My experience is to double that estimate and add some extra months because you just don’t know what you don’t know, or as Roseanne Rosannadanna taught us, “It’s always something.”
The Skout PCP air rifle.
Skout bullpup. This one shows the optional anodized colors they can provide.
However, the SHOT Show is a trade show — not a “gun show,” as some of the locals believe. So showing prototypes is perfectly legitimate. These are wholesale buyers. Keep your checkbook in your pocket.
Technology
The Skout precharged pneumatic air rifle operates on a number of electronic microprocessors. Yes that means a battery. It takes about 40 minutes to charge and lasts for about a year or 200,000 shots — whichever comes first.
Skout is big in the paintball marker market and they have adapted that electronic technology to a long-range benchrest air rifle platform. Their regulated firing chamber completely dumps, which makes it possible for 850 psi to push a .25-caliber pellet to 875 f.p.s. The .177 rifle operates with a firing chamber pressure in the 400+ psi range.
An electronic solenoid operates what functions as the striker/hammer, so the trigger pull is measured in grams. And there is no striker. In its place is that solenoid that pushes open the firing valve with a small puff (125 psi) of air. That reduces recoil significantly.
There is no discernible stage two break to the trigger on the prototype rifle I saw, so you’ll have to be a safecracker to fire the gun at will. That means your trigger finger will have to be extra sensitive. They are talking 50-80 grams of resistance. Yes the trigger adjusts. In fact almost everything adjusts.
The magazine is floating and held in place by powerful magnets. In .25 caliber they tell me it holds 25 pellets. And it loads rapidly. That’s perfect for long-range benchrest.
With the rifle you get three insert barrels in the caliber you select. One barrel “bites” the pellet the most (is internally the tightest), another is a momma bear barrel and the baby bear barrel is as loose as it goes. So the owner can tune the rifle to the pellet of choice with the insert that does the best. Skout Airguns says they use a proprietary barrel rifling technology, and I discovered that it isn’t cut or button rifling. That leaves some kind of impressed rifling, and they claim no hammer forging.
Can the caliber be changed? Yes, but it’s more than just a barrel change. The bolt probe also must be changed for each caliber.
The whole story
Guys, this air rifle has been in development for 2-1/2 years. Skout is running their tests on test fixtures for this and that performance objective. From what I was told I don’t believe a complete rifle has yet been tested. Once again, this follows proper prototype development, so stay off your high horse. They say 6 months. BB guesses closer to a year.
I was also told they are shooting for a starting retail price of $2,750, give or take. That puts them into the same market as the current leaders in long-range benchrest competition, which by the way, is the competition mentioned in their tagline. As the new guys they have some market inertia to overcome. Have they built in two or three levels of cost indenture so they can sell through dealers? With 30 years in the paintball marker business I have to assume they have. We shall see. Okay, onward and upward.
Air Venturi
Long story short. For some reason Air Venturi did not have a booth display this year. I believe the reason was it never arrived, but that may not be the case. At any rate, they were on round banquet tables and very little else.
Cleveland, where they are from, was hit hard with blizzards and flights were cancelled everywhere. So several of their people never even made it to the show.
Okay, Michael, over to you and the Dragonfly Mark 2. There is a big back story to this one that I couldn’t make up if I tried. But I did hold, pump and fire a Dragonfly Mark II at the show. It does work just as you assume. It was developed by Bob Moss, the same guy who made the Pump-Assist Benjamin 392 that customers stayed away from in droves (Eeeek! It cost more than a Benjamin 392!!)
A Dragonfly 2 should be waiting for me when I return home from SHOT, so we’ll all find out about it together. From what I read in the comments, this is the air rifle you want to know about.
Val Gamerman of Air Venturi holds the Dragonfly 2.
The Dragonfly 2 on its box.
That was all that was new in the Air Venturi booth this year. Let’s look at Hatsan.
Hatsan
The big news at Hatsan this year is the Factor RC. It’s a repeating precharged pneumatic. It comes in .177, .22 and .25 calibers and has a three power level air transfer port, an externally adjustable hammer, an externally adjustable regulator that adjusts both up and down without damage because the firing chamber can be bled without emptying the reservoir.
Hatsan’s new Factor RC PCP rifle.
The rifle comes with a huge magazine (24 in .177, 21 in .22 and 19 in .25 caliber). Power runs from 19.5 foot-pounds in .177 to 33.5 in .25. The 580cc detachable reservoir gives up to 140 shots in .177 and 120 shots in .25
The sidelever that cocking the rifle can be switched to either side of the receiver, making the Factor fully ambidextrous.
PileDriver
The PileDriver is Hatsan’s new big bore rifle. They say it’s capable of over 800 foot-pounds in .50 caliber and they offer a line of bullets made for the rifle. Their Vortex Supreme bullets come in 180, 295 and 525-grains in .45 caliber and 520 and 550 grains in .50 caliber.
Hatsan PileDriver.
Hatsan will sell their Vortex Supreme bullets — .50s on the left and .45s on the right. Some of the cleanest lead bullets BB has ever seen.
I want to test both the Factor RC that has all the bells and whistles and also the PileDriver for you. This should be a very good year!
Crosman
I trundled over to the Crosman booth, wondering what I would see. Well I knew about the Benjamin Gunnar, and I have one coming for testing, so I won’t go into that here. But I also saw something I didn’t expect. It seems Crosman has been experiencing a huge sales volume on their full auto BB guns like the DPMS. Well, they are about the launch another one — the ST-1. In their words it’s perfect for serious plinking and Alien defense training. In BB’s words it’s just way cool!
The Crosman ST-1 semi and full auto BB gun comes apart like a tactical pistol. I darkened the image so some details showed. It’s actually bright white.
And there it is assembled. A QR code cast into the gun allows for periodic user upgrades.
The Icon
The Icon is a bolt action repeater from Asia with a retail price below $300. It comes in either .177 or .22 and fills to 3,000 psi. The barrel is threaded for a standard airgun silencer. I saw it and held it and I think you guys are going to like it.
Ed Schultz asked me whether you readers knew about the new Crosman 362 multi-pump. BB gushed for five minutes with all the comments he has read! BB has to get one to test!
Benjamin Bulldog .457
Okay — BB senses a trend here. The Benjamin Bulldog is coming out in .457 caliber. It’s modified from the .357 Bulldog, so caliber swaps aren’t possible. Apparently the airgun companies are sensing a growth trend in big bore guns. Ed Schultz told me things at Crosman/Benjamin are moving into hunting in a major way.
Ed Schultz holds the new Bulldog .457.
Benjamin Armada semi-automatic
The other gun Ed was proud of is the new Armada semi-auto. It’s a .22, only and don’t confuse it with the bolt action Armada that’s still in the lineup. Holy cow! These guys are creating them faster than I can test them!
Ed holds the new Armada semi-auto.
Summary
I saw more than what I’ve shown you today, but I’m crashing against a 9 p.m. publishing deadline, because that’s midnight on the east coast, where this blog is published.
With fewer people here I’m able to see more and talk more and for me the show is much better. There’s more to come!
BB,
Very nice! Seems like the era of the big bores are coming. Makes me wonder how you are ever going to clear your plate with all the innovations coming out. I just wish the marketing guys would quit with re using labels for entirely different items. Another Armada? Sure wish somebody would come up with another pellet feeding system that would allow further flexibility in gun design. Right now only BB fed mechanisms have that flexibility.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
“Sure wish somebody would come up with another pellet feeding system…”
Wow that’s an interesting one.
Cylinder, belt, fingers seem to be the big ones since Lead pellets don’t deal well with being pushed around in tubes or box magazines with spring followers. Bullet, SBA, SLUG shooting airguns might be able to be loaded from properly designed box magazines or tubes.
shootski
Bring on the slug-firing full-auto replicas, such as the Thompson, MP-40, Stg-44, Ppsh-41 and others – that would be the “poorman’s (or woman’s)” opportunity to experience – somewhat – the feel of the real firearm versions without jumping through all the inevitable financial and legal/regulatory hoops.
I am afraid, FM, that if they come up with a full auto slug firing airgun,, we will end up with ALL airguns getting regulated,, and not the good kind of regulation.
The NRA will be defending airguns from the licensing hell they fight on the powder burning side.
Ed
Yes, thought of that. It boils down to “who shall regulate the regulators?” It is a hard question to answer. Definitely would not want ATF getting involved and meddling in the world of airguns.
Shootski,
If they can make the belt feed work without adding to the amount of force required to work the trigger it would probably be ideal. Cylinders work well but either you settle for a limited capacity to keep the design slim or increase the capacity with resulting increase in diameter.
Siraniko
They aren’t the only ones to reuse names, but it does bring the brand recognition.
The Air Venturi Avenger is the current top seller it seems at the moment. (I have 2 of them)
But many people don’t remember back in 2008/2009 Air Venturi released a Mendoza made break barrel under the Avenger name..
Maybe instead of the Armada semi auto, maybe call it the Flotilla, or Fleet.
Nah, that wouldn’t work, especially the last one, too many people will associate it with the unpleasant concoction you have to drink before seeing a medical specialist.
Ha made ya laugh…
Cheers everyone, the weekend is coming!
Ian..
Ian,
Crosman/Benjamin is famous for reusing names. Remember the Rogue?
I sure do, and every now and then I see one pop up for sale.
But not as often as I see request to buy one pop up on the sale pages.
With the proliferation of PCPs now and updated technology a new rogue just might sell.
I fooled with the one that belonged to the man who created it. What Crosman did with it is not worth messing with, except as a collector’s item. There really is so much better out here today.
“Armada” might not be a great name to use either; could lead to negative historical associations resulting in sinking sales and profits scattered to the wind… 😉 Aaaarghhh! Bad one.
Ian,
I am doing you a huge favor, trust me. If your doctor’s office tells you to have two Fleet enemas at home before you come in for your scan, know right now that you’re not to drink them! (My apologies if you already knew this.)
Michael
Michael,
Not drink them??? What’s he supposed to do with them,, shove em up his a$$.?
( Ernest Borgnine really sold that line)
Ed
Ian,
I’m in the medical field and I’m old enough to have encountered what preceded Fleet which was administered with the saying: “High, hot and heck of a lot!”
Siraniko
B.B.,
That Crosman ST-1 looks like it walked off a Star Wars set to Las Vegas; it even has the correct black and bright white!
That Mountain Dew can had better be joined by the case lot if the Skout folks expect to field a production model in six months. I think you are being kind with the holiday 2022 roll out. Hope they have all their chips and batteries sourced.
shootski
Shootski,
Those Skouts look an awful lot like Impacts.
RR,
That was my first thoughts as well.
Think that, being “electronic”, it’s closer to the Daystate Delta Wolf
There are a couple of “Impact like” airguns on the market. Guess that form following function would dictated that… like most break barrels look pretty much the same.
H
RidgeRunner,
What Hank said, “Guess that form following function would dictated that… like most break barrels look pretty much the same.”
Are you back to fit for shooting?
shootski
Oh yes! Now if life and the weather would get their act together, I will get some range time in.
RidgeRunner,
My son keeps sending me pictures (Selfies) of him skiing with his Anschütz slung on his back with this big GRIN! Just need a snow cap on that muzzle or even a piece of tape and you need make no nevermind about the weather. If you run around a bit on those Bear Paws of yours you will be nice and warm ;^)
shootski
Shootski,
I am too old to run. I will just walk slowly, thank you.
shootski,
Those look like something from a movie in which humans defend the planet from scorpions the size of pick-up trucks. (I like it!)
Michael
Michael,
SCARY!
I always dump my Luccheses before I put them on; so far haven’t found any of the BIG ones!
shootski
It’s a great time to be an Airgunner,.
But it sucks to be a broke Airgunner…
About the QR code on the side of the ST-1,Mand periodic upgrades that is interesting, I wonder what kind of upgrades.
That is something the Skout should have for future software upgrades.
The hatsan and the Gunnar look very interesting.
By the looks of some of the photos, it really isn’t very crowded at SHOT this year.
The last one I attended was in 93 in houston.
It was a madhouse then,
Thanks for the report, and new stuff to drool over.
BB
It looks like they used a regular bolt for the Armada instead of the charging handle like they used on the semi-auto Marauder. Which if so I’m happy about that. Oh and I do like the new semi-auto Armada. If I didn’t already have my SAM I would probably get one.
GF1,
I’m pretty sure I saw a charging handle on the Armada semi.
BB
BB
Trying to look closer at your picture but I believe your right. It looks like it is under the back of the bolt.
Bummer if so Crosman.
Oh well you can’t win them all.
GF1,
After I wrote that comment I remember that I have a Crosman 2022 catalog here, so I looked. It’s a charging handle.
BB
BB
Ok thanks for the quick response back. I know your busy. Enjoy your day there.
Thank you for another one BB! Please continue reporting.
Big bores are coming. I think it is great to have some high quality option also in a bigger cal. to buy. Based on that I would like to tell you guys how lucky you are to have the possibility just to buy some big bore airgun and have fun. In Germany I would need a special license for this as it is a real FAC without any discussion. And forget about just shooting it in your backyard.
Anyway when I started airgunning nobody would even think about stuff like this. Let the power of the air be with us! 🙂
tomek,
We can’t shoot big bores in our back yards, either — at least not too many of us. That makes BB’s job a little more difficult.
BB
B.B.
At the Hatsan table, was there any talk of the Turkish currency collapse and what it might mean for their airgun prices?
Also, is that the same Ed Schultz who used to be the head of Smith & Wesson?
-Y
Yogi,
I didn’t hear a word about the Turkish money.
Ed Schultz worked at Crosman for many years. Then he went to Sig to develop the ASP20. But Sig shut down the airgun division and let many of their airgun people go, so Ed was hired back by Crosman. I don’t think he was ever at S&W.
BB
B.B.
Maybe Ed picked up something at Sig (ASP20) that Crosman could learn from! I remember when you reviewed the Crosman break barrel that was or should have be a world beater/game changer with the nitro pistol II and it’s clam shooting. Then, well, maybe not so much. That was a let down. Surely Crosman has the know how.
Doc
TCFKAC needs to learn a couple of things.
One thing they really need to learn is give a new airgun a new name. Do not use the same name again and again. Just because some marketeers think the auto industry got away with it, the airgun industry can also. Well, they did not. You can even use something like the ST-1, a simple alphanumeric name.
Another problem TCFKAC has is they will take one model and put it in a different stock and give it a new name. If you look through their lineup you will find gee gobs of airguns that the stock and maybe a few accessories have been changed out, but the airgun underneath is the same.
All of the different stocks, accessories, boxes, etc. create different assembly lines which tie up finances. Freeing up assets may allow increased expenditures in R&D which could possibly put TCFKAC out front instead of buying others’ airguns and marketing them as their own.
RidgerRunner,
Agreed Sir
Doc
I cringe when I see these big bore air rifles. Although folks seem to want them, they are just begging politicians to regulate air powered arms by lumping them in with firearms. It’s just waiting for some clown to misuse them by killing an unfortunate person. Michigan just a few years ago managed to separate air guns from firearms in the law so they can be purchased with very little legal restriction after decades of those laws defining air guns as firearms. I know, because it was state rep Gary Glenn that spearheaded that movement at my (and likely others) request. The clouds are on the horizon with these big bore air rifles.
arbiter – same story in Germany with crossbows. Recently some insane idiot shot somebody with a crossbow. Deadly. So, there is a matter of time when they will land in same box as the firearms. I already mention what they (bad bad Germans 🙂 ) did with airguns (F limit 7.5J)… Almost each country in Europe has something like 12ft.lbs. as a limit for a free sale airguns. The big bore in Europe will be anyway something in the grey zone at the start, unfortunately. So far there is no consistency on a limit for FAC airgun. As I know the bureaucracy here, they will handle big bore with some big amount of bad intention powered with big portion ignorance.
arbiter,
Modern Big Bores (MBB) have been around for at least three decades as have small bore airgun shooters who have worried just like you. This topic of regulatory FEAR has come up just like King Tides do on a predictable cycle. During the three decades of Modern Big Bore airguns your worst FEARS have not come to pass. Long before action is taken on a few thousands of MBB the Right to Bare ANY Arm will be taken from the SUBJECTS.
READERSHIP Please note this is an example of just how POLITICS sneaks its nose under the Airgun Circus’s Tent.
shootski
READERSHIP-This has nothing to do with how politics sneaks it’s nose under the airgun circus tent. Elitist politicians seeking a lifetime in office is how that happens-they convince themselves that they know best what the citizenry should be allowed to own, largely after being given an excuse to regulate any given manmade object.
Arbiter,
“…dog barking when another walks past on the sidewalk because he thinks he needs to protect his territory…” Don’t have a sidewalk and the dogs are trained to not bark while protecting their territory.
To be neighborly I use DonnyFL Airgun Suppressors on my Big Bore rifles but not on the .58 Shortrifle or the pistols.
I was not making light of your concerns in Michigan on a clear case of governmental overreaching but rather pointing out to the general readership how Low Politics are part of all we humans do; to include comments on airgun blogs.
I hope your good works in Michigan for airgunner’s rights to bear arms continue to be successful.
shootski
I agree with you. After all, why should they not be classed in the same category as firearms if their performance is the same with regards to power? BB trashed me when I mentioned that some years ago. Where I live the authorities have recently done just that!
It’s the last thing I want to happen. Laws restricting onership of devices (including airguns of any type) are unconstitutional in my opinion, and do nothing to solve the problems of society. I hope it doesn’t happen, but I fear it will if someone abuses a large bore airgun.
Woohoo! Somebody has been listening! Finally, something to blast those intergalactic feral soda cans with! RidgeRunner, who is not into CO2 will definitely be getting a ST-1!
The platform that the Dragonfly is built on certainly is a versatile one.
RidgeRunner,
I imagine the reasonable price for the pump-assist model is partly thanks to the savings from reusing design elements. And hey, that means more toys for fewer dollars. :^)
Michael
Yes, that is quite versatile. Pump, PCP and CO2. I wonder if any of them are worth having?
RR,
Unless there is some hidden issue, the Dragonfly 2 looks like a winner. But it isn’t here yet, is it? I’m not going to count my Dragonflies (one in each cal.) until they hatch.
Michael
That was a poor attempt at a pun.
I will just hang on to my 101.
Michael,
Something else. If you look to the Stormrider and Chaser, you will have an idea of how the Dragonfly 2 will perform. They all come out of the same Chinese factory.
BB-
Thanks for the report. With the ST-1, it would appear Crosman should throw some money Kriss Vector’s way for the styling cues. If not a direct 1:1 copy, it is very clear what was intended.
On an entirely unrelated note. As manufacturers and users keep chasing the bigger, better, more power route to eventual legal and regulatory equivalence with firearms- will all air guns then require the P-R 11% excise tax?
Thanks
Only if We The People allow them to do it.
Pocoinohio,
Taxation without representation?
shootski
Happens all the time.
paco,
As a hunter and fisherman, I will appreciate the contribution to the conservation and protection of wildlife that this excise tax supports.
As an air gunner,, I will hate paying the extra cash, tho.
Actually, it is one of the few taxes I don’t mind paying.
Ed
BB, I’m really glad the Dragon Fly appears to have made into production because its a small miracle to see a better idea make it that far. It’s not so easy to dress up our passtime with electronics either. Holy cow man, lets see how complicated we can make this hobby. Love the deep end, untill it doesn’t work.
I’d like to see some testing on the effectiveness of those hollow points, those are some big pills!
There are allot of rules about what you can and can not hunt, when, and what with already, I dont know that there is any effort to regulate airguns in America. Most commonly it’s called a lawsuit, from your neighbor for example, for damages. I can imagine kicking into an insurance fund for the damages from firearms used improperly, if not an odious tax. Firearms/ airgun sales are one of the bright spots in the economy from what i’m reading.
Yea for the Dragon Fly!
Rob
Hey Rob,
http://mrhollowpoint.com/index.html#
Lots of great pictures of testing the bad boys of HP!
Knock yourself out!
shootski
B.B.,
I have hope that the Dragonfly will sell well enough for Air Venturi to support a few good size runs or even more. The price is certainly low enough. It’s wood and metal. And it is a reworking of one of the iconic classics of airgunning for 70 – 80 years.
Have you noticed it appears to have a slightly greater forearm-to-stock ratio than the 392 with the break between them quite close to the trigger guard? I first saw that on some “Steroided” Benjamins and Sheridans as the “extended billet lever” option Tim McMurray offered at Mac1. It makes pumping easier for regular multipumpers. On a butterfly-equipped one, well, I can’t wait.
Michael
Michael,
Yes, the Dragonfly Mark 2 stock was the first thing people noticed when I was in the Air Venturi booth. Not only is that forearm longer, the fit of the wood in impeccable. That’s a lot of praise for a low-cost Chinese airgun stock!
You guys are gonna love this one, I believe. Mine will probably not be going back.
BB
B.B.,
Tim did tell me that he recommended the extended billet option only for people over 5′ 10″ (if I remember correctly) because the pumping arc has your hands much farther apart at the start than a standard proportion multipumper does. I ended up not getting one then, but he said I would be OK when I let him know I’m 6 feet tall and have a fingertip to fingertip wingspan of 74 inches.
Michael
Modded to the extended lever:
There is a major difference in the Dragonfly versus the 397/392. The steel barrel is not soldered to the compression chamber, allowing for swap outs. You can try different barrels to improve accuracy and/or power. The Dragonfly is more like the old Crosman 101 or it’s siblings.
TCFKAC has introduced the 362. What they have noticed is many of those who purchased a 13XX would modify them into carbines and rifles, so why not do that from the get-go? Some are already upgrading their 362s with better breeches, better sights, etc.
It looks like multi-pumpers are not going away for a while, although it looks like TCFKAC is getting ready to dump the 397/392 line. Hopefully they will take them back to a wood stock and hang on to them as a legacy.
RidgeRunner,
I’ll follow your advice and read up on the Stormrider and Chaser.
Michael
Michael,
Well your research has probably led you to the company RR pointed to but did not name and that name is, Shaoxing Snowpeak Sports Equipment CO.,LTD
A China company that seems to make some good airguns, https://www.snowpeakairgun.com/ so Diana and others have rebranded some of their products.
Mike
Yes, they are Snowpeak. Studying those will give you an idea of how the Dragonfly will be.
Nova Vista is the Chinese company to watch though. They produce the Avenger and the Aspen, which used to be called the Liberty and the Freedom. They are trying to give us what we say we want.
BB
Forgot. So what was Ed’s words when you told him that some of your readers already have the 362. And one of them for sure likes his. 🙂
GF1,
He smiled so wide I thought the top of his head was going to fall off. Ed tells me the 362 exceeded his wildest hopes. At 8 pumps it’s past the 392, or al least even with it. Yeah, no wood, no brass, but in Ed’s world and Crosman/Benjamin’s world, that’s a good thing.
BB
BB
Good glad he was happy. And no regrets at all getting my 362.
I’m using 8 pumps with mine and it’s doing just fine. Can’t wait for you to test one. I think your going to be surprised how durable they did make it.
Well I still have to say though the steel breech that Crosman sales for the 2240 is a direct fit. And it’s not a necessity on the gun but it sure gives a person alot more sight options. Mine has it. And you know I was going to throw in my 2 cents somewhere about the breech. 😉
Gunfun,
If one was to buy the steel breach, is there any type of open sight options? Maybe a peep? I can see the normal notch would be out due it it being so close to the rear (too close to the eye). Also is your 362 made in the US? If the it works well and it is close to the Dragon Fly, I’d have to lean towards the Crosman just because it isn’t made in China.
Doc
Doc
I had to send mine back because the barrel was loose. It would rotate about a 16th of a turn,, but that was too much to take a chance on.
It has an extended forearm, just like the dragonfly. Pretty easy to cock but I only fired it a couple times before I noticed the loose barrel, then I put it back in the box.
Ed
Doc Holiday,
The Crosman steel breech:
https://www.crosman.com/product/crosman-steel-breech-kit-22
comes with a dovetail slot cut across toward the rear that fits a LPA MIM SIGHT that will work with the front post (screws in) sight on the custom muzzle. They have different height pins to help get sighted in. There are also any number of aftermarket irons that are made to work with the steel breeches.
shootski
Doc
My 362 came with the plastic and the round hole peep sight blade like the 1322 and such have. So it’s back close to the eye. The hole is bigger on the blade on the 362 than the 1377 hole from what I remember. I looked through it and it actually matche the front post pretty good. So if a person wanted a peep sight I would just stay with the plastic breech set up thar comes on the 362. It looks likea good match to me. I myself like the idea of the steel breech because of course it’s steel and has the dovetails. I was no matter what going to scopemine which I did.
And I’ll have to see what mine says tomorrow morning after I get of work. It is probably like some of the other Crosman/Benjamin stuff. Parts are made in China and assembled in the US.
And don’t know why my reply to you wants to keep posting down here.
Gunfun1,
Is the 362 barrel held in the steel breech with set screws (grub screws) like on the 13XX/22XX and does the breech end have a flat to index the barrel?
shootski
Shootski
Yes it has a setscrew to hold the barrel in place to the breech. And no there is no flat. The transfer port orafice is what locks the barrel in position to the breech. You tighten the barrel setscrew up last after the barrel is in the breech and is mounted on the main tube.
B.B.,
Thank you for the research and report on the Skout pellet gun. Also watched Rossi’s interview of Skout last night (Thank you Michael).
My take is that Skout is proposing a very agressive and innovative design for their first attempt at entering the airgun marketplace. Although they’re integrating technology that they’ve successfully used in their paintball guns what they are now designing is a pellet gun. I’m guardedly optimistic. Nonetheless, since Skout has already invested 2 1/2 years into this design maybe they will follow through on the production. The last leg of this road to production will undoubtedly encounter many bugs that need to be worked out.
Their design with infinite adjustability and price point puts them head to head in competition with the cream of the crop competition airguns (like the FX Impact and Daystate Red Wolf) and the gun better perform to the standards they have set for it. The 3 barrel system for pellets seems gimicky. They should instead design a barrel for pellets and one for slugs if they want to compete in the market where the FX Impact, Red Wolf and others are dominating.
I’m not trying to be a wet blanket but they have very lofty goals and many hurdles to overcome. Hope they are successful and I will continue to monitor their progress. Thanks for shedding light on where they are at this point in time.
Kevin
I have to say I agree with you about the Skout.
I have to say I’m with BB too. 6 month’s might be do able since they have some back ground in air. But I bet a year or even more might prove what we want to see.
Another problem is that’s alot of bucks to put down to find out if they can get a following if you know what I mean.
If people get them and they do what they claim then they are in the money. But from what I have seen air gun (pellet shooters) people are a tuff crowd to please.
It will for sure be a interesting gun to follow and see how it all goes.
That seems overly complex. Maybe they should offer a cheaper option with only a few of the bells and whistles. Eg. A less adjustable model with the the second air chamber sans the electronics that would compete in the $1000 range
Ton
I agree.
B.B.,
The Skout rifle is impressive just for the technology alone that’s gone into it!
As for the Dragonfly Mark 2, isn’t that the same rifle that was originally called the “Butterfly,” which then got delayed going into production (presumably due to covid), and is now called Dragonfly 2 to show that it’s an enhancement to the original Dragonfly? Is that about right?
Looking forward to your report on it,
dave
Dave,
That’s right. The term Butterfly tested too feminine, plus there was a trademark issue.
BB
BB wasn’t there a butterfly hand pump as well?
Ton,
There was a mockup, at least. I don’t remember ever seeing one that worked.
BB
“The term Butterfly tested too feminine”
Thanks, B.B., that’s hilarious! 🙂
I would like to see the differences between the SAM and the semi auto Armada
Ton
Me too for sure about any differences with the SAM and semi-auto Armada.
You and Ton will likely find out that the SAM and SAA are the same underneath the makeup, just like the Marauder and Armada are the same.
RR
Probably so on the inside although the semi-auto Armada has a bolt and it looks like the charging handle also. The SAM does not have a bolt you can cock only a charging handle to cock the gun. To me that’s where they messed up on the SAM and why I modified my SAM with a bolt for cocking and other reasons. Also the gauge is located in a different spot on the Armada then the SAM.
Will have to see as time goes on.
yep