by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This is Part 9 of an ongoing guest blog from reader HiveSeeker. He continues to research this subject that fascinates both him and many other readers.
This is about the air rifle he really enjoys. If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me. Now, over to you, HiveSeeker.
Crosman 2400KT CO2 Air Rifle – Part 9
By HiveSeeker
The 2400KT CO2 Air Rifle is only available directly from the Crosman Custom Shop. The cost of this custom gun, the HiveSeeker II with 14.6-inch Lothar Walther .22 barrel and shoulder stock, was $128, not including the scope and rings. The scope is a Leapers 3-12X44 AO SWAT Compact.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
This report covers:
- My love affair with the 2400KT
- The Crosman Custom Shop (CCS)
- Review session
- My new HiveSeeker II 2400KT — Accuracy
- My new HiveSeeker II 2400KT — Velocity
- Valve swap
- The Crosman Custom Shop “black box”
- By the numbers
- What’s next?
My love affair with the 2400KT
It’s been over two years since my last report on the Crosman 2400KT from the Crosman Custom Shop. I fell in love with this gun when my Crosman 1377 died and I wanted a replacement that didn’t require pumping. I discovered the 2400KT to be a very accurate and powerful CO2 pistol. Since then I’ve purchased several more 2400KTs, tried my hand at the modding these guns are famous for, and learned some new things along the way.
The Crosman Custom Shop (CCS)
The Crosman Custom Shop is a wonderful, wonderful place. Crosman listens to its customers and is constantly innovating. Recently the CCS added the 1300KT Pump Carbine (based on the Crosman 1377), new Lothar Walther barrels, and a custom regulated Marauder is slated for 2018! There have also been significant name changes that you need to pay attention to: the 2400KT Carbine from past blogs has been renamed the 2400KT CO2 air rifle that continues to be our topic of discussion here, and the 2300KT pistol is now the 2300KT CO2 carbine. The 2400KT offers longer barrels and more velocity than the 2300KT, so if you have the need for speed make sure you keep these two straight!
Review session
For a brief refresher on the previous blog series, or if you’re not familiar with the Crosman 2400KT, I suggest that you look over at least Parts 1 and 2. My first 2400KT (the HiveSeeker) had an 18-inch Crosman .22 barrel and shot midweight 14.3-grain Benjamin Domed Magnums at 558 fps. My wife’s 2400KT (dubbed the Sassy Sandy) had a 10.1-inch Lothar Walther .177 barrel and shot midweight 7.9-grain Crosman Premiers at 557 fps. Note that these velocities in .177 and .22 are nearly identical — we will spend some time discussing that here and in the next part of this report!
Here’s a look at the original guns from previous reports — my HiveSeeker 2400KT with 18-inch Crosman .22 barrel (left), and the wife’s Sassy Sandy 2400KT with 10.1-inch Lothar Walther .177 barrel (right).
My new HiveSeeker II 2400KT — Accuracy
The original HiveSeeker 2400KT proved to be quite powerful, rivaling most non-PCP .22 air pistols in velocity — thanks in part to its long 18-inch barrel. My only disappointment was accuracy, which was very good at 10 yards but only fair at 20 yards. So I was pretty excited when Crosman added a 14.6-inch choked Lothar Walther barrel to the CCS! I immediately placed my order for the HiveSeeker II, which was a twin to my HiveSeeker except for the new barrel and color. Well, let me tell you — this barrel can shoot! Just take a look at this target:
Fifty shots, five holes! Here’s a close-up of my new HiveSeeker II and my very first 10-yard accuracy test. This gun shoots better than I can! Note that I overlaid the target on brightly colored paper to highlight the groups. The numbered groups were (1) Benjamin Discovery Hollowpoint, (2) Air Arms Falcon (you may need to squint!), (3) RWS Meisterkugeln, (4) RWS Hobby, and (5) H&N Sport. Note that some of the groups reported in the accuracy table below are smaller than the groups shown here.
At 10 yards I got the accuracy listed below. All groups were 10 shots, measured center-to-center (CTC). The scope I used is a Leapers SWAT Compact 3-12X44 AO which worked quite well, though it is heavy and some shooters (especially female or youth) will probably prefer a lighter scope on this compact gun. Everything except the Gamo Match and 5.53 mm H&N Field Target Trophy grouped under half an inch, and several pellets — the Air Arms Falcon, boxed Crosman Premier, and 15.89 grain JSB Diabolo Exact Jumbo — grouped smaller than a single pellet diameter! As a refresher, my wife’s 2400KT with 10.1-inch Lothar Walther .177 barrel was also very accurate, posting groups down to 0.246 inches at 10 yards. If you want to hit what you’re pointing at, the Lothar Walther barrels are worth every penny!
Pushing this gun out to 20 yards, I got groups down to 0.357 inches CTC. This was definitely an improvement over my first HiveSeeker which averaged over 1 inch with the pellets I tested — though not surprising considering the cost difference between barrels. You do get what you pay for! While this won’t compete with PCPs, I think it’s great for a .22 CO2 pistol at this price. I am pretty happy with the accuracy of my new 2400KT!
One final thing to mention here is that the Lothar Walther barrel is noticeably tighter than the Crosman barrels. From what I have seen so far, pellets with smaller diameters that did not fit too tightly in the original barrel seemed to be more accurate now.
My new HiveSeeker II 2400KT — Velocity
Accuracy is certainly important, but as you can tell I’m also pretty enthusiastic about the velocity of the 2400KT. Although my original HiveSeeker with 18-inch barrel ended up falling just short of the 12 foot-pounds recommended for hunting, it is still a very powerful pistol. While shorter barrels usually provide lower velocity in CO2 guns, some research I came across suggested that a 14-inch barrel might be optimal for this gun. So I had high hopes for my new HiveSeeker II with its 14.6-inch barrel!
I was getting an ample 60 shots per CO2 cartridge, but when I dropped my new gun over the Shooting Chrony velocity averaged only 434 fps with Benjamin Discovery Hollow Points. This was a full 124 fps below my original HiveSeeker with the same pellet. In my previous blogs I was baffled when my two 2400KTs posted almost exactly the same velocity in .177 as in .22, and I speculated that the Custom Shop assembled the .177 with Lothar Walther barrel for a moderate, stable target velocity rather than a high hunting velocity. That again seems to be the case here. Below are the velocity curves comparing the HiveSeeker and HiveSeeker II, two guns that were ordered functionally identical except for the barrel:
Here are the velocity curves for the 18-inch Crosman barrel HiveSeeker and the 14.6-inch Lothar Walther barrel HiveSeeker II. Would you guess these came from the same model gun?
Clearly the Custom Shop assembled my HiveSeeker II differently, and I soon realized the difference HAD to be the valve. While the 3.4 inch shorter barrel and the barrel choking might both reduce velocity, it should not be by this much. And those two factors certainly wouldn’t double the shot count! In fact, the velocity and number of shots are similar to what B.B. got when he tested the Crosman 2240, and that’s the ubiquitous Crosman valve that I suspect I have here.
Valve swap
I wanted more velocity from the HiveSeeker II, and based on my first 2400KT I knew I could get it. I got a valve identical to the one in my original HiveSeeker installed in the HiveSeeker II, and re-tested. The results were much closer to what I had been expecting all along: an average of 522 fps — a full 90 fps faster — and only 36 fps lower than the 18-inch barrel gun. This was more like it! (Note that all velocity testing was done at 84-88 degrees F. Velocity in cooler climates will be lower.)
This also made it obvious that the high velocity I was getting from my original HiveSeeker was not due solely to its 18-inch barrel, but due as well to a more powerful valve contributing at least 90 fps. We’ll discuss this in more detail in the next blog installment.
The augmented velocity in my HiveSeeker II, however, came at a very steep cost:
This is the velocity I expected for an identical gun with a shorter barrel. However, you can see that the new valve provides more velocity at the expense of half the number of shots compared to the original valve.
The Crosman Custom Shop “black box”
As you can see, you don’t have complete control when you order a custom gun. There are some choices that only Crosman decides. But looking at this graph, I understand why the Custom Shop selected a different valve when they assembled my HiveSeeker II. The power I want comes at the expense of about 25 shots per fill compared to the original valve — down by half! Another way of looking at this is that it will now cost me twice as much to shoot this gun. Most customers selecting a Lothar Walther barrel are probably going to be more interested in bull’s-eyes than bunnies, and for them the originally installed valve is the right choice.
This variability in construction also explains why Crosman does not give out velocities for their Custom guns (I tried gamely — but vainly — to get them). While I must admit that the Custom Shop made the exact choice I would in setting up this gun for the average customer, I also believe that many buyers would love to see the CCS offer an informed choice between a target valve and a power valve. I feel that the Crosman Custom Shop will be complete when a customer can choose not only how nice their gun looks, but how it will actually perform when they get it.
By the numbers
I like graphs, but numbers are important too. Here are the target and power valve data for the HiveSeeker II from the graphs above. You can also clearly see the price paid in shots per fill to achieve those higher velocities:
What’s next?
Despite having to expend some extra effort to end up with what I wanted, I am no less enamored by the Crosman Custom Shop and its fantastic 2400KT line. There’s one more topic I want to cover on the stock 2400KT next, and then my final blog on this gun will cover modding including what you can do to get that power valve if you want it! Stay tuned!
“(you may need to squint!)”
A very stylish gloat 🙂
I remembered the his ‘n’ hers guns, did not remember they had names.
Thanks, Seantheaussie, though I’m forced to confess it’s the gun doing that great shooting off a rest — not me! All I do is hold her steady. Wish I could do that offhand!
Being able to custom engrave your gun is a fun part of the Custom Shop, and turned out to be a good way to differentiate between same model guns with different custom builds.
Thank you for continuing this report. These are guns I have always be a lot of fun. Have you ever tried either of the guns at field target?
You’re welcome, Sp4449 — and thanks for the thanks! Field target was actually one of the things in the back of my mind as I’ve looked at velocity in these guns. I definitely got better accuracy with the Lothar Walther barrel, but believe that you also need a certain amount of velocity to sustain that accuracy at 20 yards and beyond.
HiveSeeker,
A simply SUPERB job on the article! The charts, graphs, writing and photos are all excellent. Every time you write one of these, I want to go out and get one. I love the looks, it looks super light and that it looks like it would point like a dream.
2 thoughts stick out:
1) Are the part #’s different for the 2 valves? If so, that might be some good info. to have and what are they?
2) Can this be converted to high pressure air (PCP)? If so, what would it take,.. parts wise?
Again, excellent article and fine job. Looking forwards to the last one,.. modding,… my favorite! 🙂
Good Day to you and to one and all,… Chris
Hello Chris USA,
Thank you, sir! Crosman did not provide part numbers for the valves, but based on my purchases the “power valve” comes with at least the 18 inch and 24 inch barrel guns, and the lower / standard velocity “target valve” comes with guns with Lothar Walther barrels.
These guns can be converted to HPA. B.B. did it with a 2240, and the process will be similar with a 2400KT. I will discuss it briefly in my final blog that covers modding, but here’s the link to B.B.’s series:
/blog/2014/08/crosman-2240-conversion-to-air-part-4/
Also, I didn’t mention it in the report but the HiveSeeker II with the 14.6″ LW barrel weighs 3.6 pounds, and with the scope and rings shown totals 5.3 pounds.
HiveSeeker,
Nice on the weight. People do not appreciate a lighter weight gun until they get ahold of something other than a 10# springer. The Maximus would be my personal experience with dropping weight.
I was under the impression that you ordered a “power” valve. I guess that you had something laying around. Regardless, I would think that the 2 valves have different part #’s. Perhaps they only offer one for after market parts. If so, I would assume that would be the “power” valve.
I fully agree with you on full disclosure and being able to totally customize your purchase,… knowing what you are getting,.. up front. I mean really,.. why not?
Chris USA,
I obtained the valve through a method that’s not commercially available, which is why I didn’t mention it specifically. However, I’ll be discussing a couple ways someone can get it, or an equivalent, in the final blog on modding. I made a fairly valiant attempt to obtain a part number but was not successful. I’m pretty sure the “target” or standard valve is the 2250-003 that is the stock valve listed for the 2240, 2250B, and 2260.
Chris
I had a couple of the hi-pac conversion guns. They worked great for me.
Hi Gunfun1,
I’ll mostly be covering basic mods in what will be Part 11, so I hope you can add your expertise on Hi-Pac upgrades! I have noticed that there seems to be a lot more options out there from when I bought my first 2400KT.
Hiveseeker
Thanks. I will do when you get your report done. Just don’t take so long for Part 11 ok. 😉
GF1,
I would be interested in that. I like HiveSeeker’s 18″ version with carbon fiber stock. I would opt for the 14.6″ L/W barrel though, which means a valve order. I will read B.B.’s report that he (HS) linked. The price is right and I have that good CP scope that came with the Maximus, so no cost there. I also have that 6 position UTG? stock that came with the RAI kit. Maybe another option? You know I like the longer length of pull. .22 would be cool too, but maybe .177.
Based on your reg. experience, I think that I will be getting a reg. too. (Maximus) I did find a A.V air stripper that I might get too. Looks cool and will screw right on the 1/2-20 thread. I did get a 1/2-20 tap at work, so if I can find something that will work, I may make my own moderator,.. to collect the lead dust,.. of course. I think that I will bypass the repeater. The bigger breech and shroud will just add weight. Since I have the second gauge on the Guppy, I may drop the pressure gauge on the gun too. That was an option.
So many options.
Chris
I’m going to have to say I think you will be satisfied with the Huma regulator in your Maximus. I did some more tuning with the regulator pressure tonight. I actually lowered the regulator pressure more. It didn’t pick up shot count like I thought it would. But the pellets we’re dropping one on top of the other. The sound did go down even more when I shot too.
All I can say is the gun is very accurate now. Actually rediculous accurate.
And you need to keep the Maximus gauge in place. That’s the only way to know what the regulator is outputting for your shot. That is a very important gauge when tunning your regulator to your gun.
The gauge on your Guppy is going to only show your fill pressure on the other side of the regulator. Basically the full air pressure in that part of the air resivoir tube.
Saying that. I now have my regulator set at 1125 psi. And tonight I’m filling the Maximus to 3000 psi. Yes I know before anybody comment’s. Kids don’t try this at home unless you have a knowledgeable adult present. Well thinking about that comment. Maybe not even with a knowledgeable adult around. But I’m doing it anyway.
GF1,
3000 on a 2000 gun?,…. never let it be said that you do not push the limit on things! As a bit of comfort???? I do believe that tubes are rated at OVER twice recommended. I do think that I remember that the tubes are not the issue,… rather the fittings and threads,… like the fill port,.. or tube to breech, IF,.. I am remembering correctly? Keep us posted.
Chris
The biggest safety concern is probably the Allen screws that hold the valve in location in the air resivoir tube.
The high load on them can shear the heads right off the Allen screws.
From exsperiance on other Crosman/Benjamin PCP guns. Those other guns are 2900 and 3000 psi guns that share the same components. But then again. You never know what can happen.
So I don’t recommend doing it. But thinking about it. What do you fill your .25 Marauder too?
Whooo, you guys are way ahead of the limited modding I tried. I tested some of the most basic upgrades to get my feet wet, and will partly be reporting just on what I found is available. There are so many options for Hi-Pac that I’ll only be mentioning it and linking to B.B.’s blog, so it will be great if you gents can include some basics in the comments when the time comes. In addition to such a wide range of options, another reason I won’t be covering such conversions was a desire to stay fairly basic with stock (or slightly modified stock) parts that are readily available and easy to install. It’s pretty amazing the options out there now.
Hiveseeker
The hi-pac conversions are pretty basic.
You screw it into your gun and fill it up to about 1500 psi with your HPA air source and your shoot’n.
GF1,
3,400 with no problem. But it does have the heavier hammer spring too to compensate. If not, it would be a partial or total valve lock.
Chris
What I was getting at is you fill your Marauder higher then the manufacturers recommended 3000 psi. Which I did with my modded .25 Marauder I had also.
It’s probably ok to do but still not something to recommend for someone to do.
Definitely need to understand high pressure air before you start upping the pressure. Bad things can happen.
B.B.,
Based on your editing comment from yesterday,.. “running and gunning”,… thank you for any and all editing work on todays article. Without knowing what credit goes where,… the (end result) was superb on content, (text and pics).
Chris
Let me echo Chris USA’s words. A guest blog is not a day off for B.B.! Thank you for your work and edits in doing a great job refining and posting what I sent!
Hiveseeker,
This is a wonderful blog, very informative and your passion for the 22xx platform shows in the details that make this a great read. I too salivate every time I go to the Crosman Custom Shop, I keep waiting on a Walther barrel for the .22. One of the many reasons I love my 2240 is that with the bolt on the right side this gun is effectively left handed.
Hello Coduece,
Kind words from a fellow guest blogger, thank you! I was waiting for the same thing as you and ordered the gun featured here as soon as I saw the LW .22 barrel was available. Of my five 2400KTs, this one with the 14.6″ LW barrel is my favorite with good velocity and excellent accuracy.
Hiveseeker
Is there any difference in the 2400kt trigger and the trigger in my 2240? I’ve always wished it had a two stage trigger. Especially now that I know what a good trigger feels like.
I’ve cut the spring on mine and polished the mating surfaces, however I miss the first stage take up and clean break that my better triggers have. Is there a true two stage trigger out there?
Coduece
The trigger parts from a Marauder pistol will work. And yes it’s a true 2 stage trigger.
Ok I’m going to look that up, I knew you could put a Marauder trigger in a disco, but wasn’t aware they would work in a 2240. thank you for the info.
Coduece
No not the Marauder rifle.
The Marauder pistol. Or Crosman 1720T trigger componants too. They are the same parts.
But definitely not the Marauder rifle trigger parts.
GF1
Thanks that makes more sense, although I thought the Marauder pistol was just the rifle with the buttstock cut off. I don’t know anything about the 1720 but will be looking it up. Your an encyclopedia of Airgun knowledge. When I polished the trigger components on my 2240 I used one of those four sided fingernail buffers, the kind made of foam rubber with different grit on each side they remove very little material and you can get a very nice polish with it look around your wife’s sink that’s where I stole mine.
Coduece
You know how some people like Chevy’s or Ford’s and so on. Well I like Benjamin and Crosman pcp’s, multi-pump and 2240 Co2 guns.
Done alot of swapping parts around on those gun’s.
It’s just what I do. 🙂
Thanks, Gunfun1. Coduece, the 2400KT trigger is okay but not great, though it can be made better with some minor adjustments. Check Part 2 of the original blog (/blog/2014/10/crosmans-2400kt-carbine-part-2/) to see the trigger adjustment; I usually lighten it almost all the way on all my guns. The other stock adjustment you can make is to tighten the trigger set screw until it stops the trigger as soon as the sear releases, which makes if feel a bit crisper.
Hiveseeker
No problem and I do like those trigger stops.
I really enjoyed your BLOG, Hiveseeker – very informative. I bought a 1720T for field target competition, and with the stock, it is quite a handy little carbine, and very accurate. Do you own one of those? Wish that Crosman would produce the 1720T with the Marauder trigger, as the stock trigger is not great.
Jerry
I had 2 different 1720T’s set up with the 1399 stock. Excellent little guns.
And really on the trigger. It shares components with the Marauder pistol. To me they are excellent triggers. Of course nothing like my FWB 300 trigger. The 1720T and Marauder pistol triggers are very adjustable.
Okay, I’m adding my own Like button!
Hiveseeker
I like your like button. 🙂
But it don’t work. 🙁
Thanks, JerryC. I’m aware of the 1720T and have noticed it’s popular for field target, but actually have my eye on the similar Marauder Pistol for my next big buy. From what Gunfun1 mentioned, the trigger on both of those is better than the 2400KT but sounds like there’s still room for improvement.
Hiveseeker
Tell me what you think needs improved on the Marauder pistol and 1720T trigger?
Hey Gunfun 1,
I was referring to JerryC who has a 1720 and said “Wish that Crosman would produce the 1720T with the Marauder trigger, as the stock trigger is not great.” Rereading my comment I see it could be confusing.
Hiveseeker
The sear and other parts of the Marauder trigger work exactly like a 1720T trigger. Both are fully adjustable and can be adjusted to feel/work the same.
One difference though is the Marauder rifle trigger does not have a trigger stop like the 1720T. To me that makes the 1720T trigger actually better than the Marauder rifle trigger.
Thanks, Gunfun1!
Hive Seeker,
WOW. Great blog.
Has it already been two years since the original blogs? I purchased a 2400KT, 18″ barrel, in .177 abut half way through your original blogs. It still my favorite air gun. I probably have 20K shots through it at this point.
After this blog, I believe I’m going to order one in 22 with the LW barrel.
Thanks,
Jim
JimQwerty123,
Hard to believe it’s been that long, and my Part 1 was actually posted three years ago almost to the day! It’s been a bit of a journey. Glad I helped point you in a fun direction!
My ONLY disappointment with my 18 inch barrel gun was accuracy at 20+ yards, which was actually not bad at all — but not quite as good as I wanted either. The 14.6 inch LW .22 barrel is amazing and appears to be just as accurate as my wife’s Sassy Sandy with 10.1 inch LW barrel in .177. I do think the extra velocity of the “power valve” helps with accuracy at 20+ yards, though the standard “target valve” that came stock gives a LOT of stable, full power shots over 400 fps.
Hive Seeker,
My 2400KT, with most pellets, is very accurate at 10M – much better than I am. Its favorate pellet is JSB RS pellets.. I usually don’t shoot past 25 yards, and, generally, can hit my 1″ to 2″ spinners at that range (longer ranges tend to be with a heavier JSB pellet in the 8 to 10 grain range – what ever that I happen to have open at the time. If you are a member of GTA take a look at the match 14 YTD recap for the 10M off hand match. Most of those scores will be with the 1400KT (the ones that were not were shot with a 1701p that my wife purchased for me at the 2016 Texas Airgun Show from Tom. My 1400KT is as accurate as my 1701p that has an LW barrel and Crosman shoulder stock. The limit on accuracy of both guns is the guy behind the gun (me).
Jim
HiveSeeker
Thanks to your reports I have the 2400KT and later the 1300KT. Both have the Lothar Walther 14.6″ barrels in .177 caliber. Readers may want to know that they are equally accurate or so close I could not choose one over the other. They both are better than 1 inch at 25 yards with about any pellet. R10’s and some other match pellets are near 1/2 inch and sometimes half that. Those who want an accurate multi pump need to look at the 1300KT. I ordered the adjustable trigger tension for it. The 2400KT already has this. I only shoot paper with airguns so added velocity is a non issue for me. I do wonder which valve my 2400KT has. I get 40 shots before pellets begin to drop. My shooting setup from my deck is awkward for using a chrony.
Thanks for your blog!
Decksniper
Decksniper
They are cool guns aren’t they.
Hi Decksniper,
More than welcome. It’s been a lot of work, but an equal amount of fun. Thanks for your info on your 2400KT and 1300KT. From what I’ve been able to tell with my limited purchases, the Custom Shop puts a “target valve” in anything that has a Lothar Walther barrel, although not all of those guns seem to get the same 60 shots per fill I saw with the stock HiveSeeker II here. I would be very interested in some chrony data on your 2400KT if you ever get it.
Hiveseeker
Nice report.
HiveSeeker,
When I sat down at my computer to read today’s blog I was pleased to see that it was about this Custom Shop Gun. I have been curious about the Custom Shop products, but have mostly seen videos and forum entries about ” customized” Custom Shop guns, and expected the same here. My real interest at this point in my pursuit of this hobby is “out of the box” performance. Then I saw that there were 8 previous installments in this series, and decided to catch up before I read today’s blog.
Man oh man, have you ever written a great series ! I was just tickled when you pointed out from the beginning that this was going to be about a PAIR of the very popular Custom Shop guns and YOU HAD NO INTEREST IN MODIFYING THEM! I wanted to read all the comments, as well, but one look at that microscopic slider on the right hand scroll bar of my screen told me that wasn’t gonna’ happen if I wanted to finish the series today. ( that is also a sign that you have written a report of very widespread interest and you should be very proud) I read about a third of the comments in each report, just to try to pick up some of the atmosphere that I assumed would be carried forward to the future entries. I’ll be going back latter today.
You also seemed to take the same approach as I would have. If I had 15 pellets in my stockpile, I’d shoot all 15. If the number was 30, I’d still try to find a way to justify trying them all ( one difference might be that I don’t have the “blog widow” issue. My wife has already had her fill of me ,I guess! 😉 ) Not everyone would think, ” I know these 25 grain pellets are for high powered PCPs, but since I’ve got ’em, I’m shootin’ ’em outta this long barreled co2 pistol” I loved that! I’ll be looking forward to future installments.
I saw that you were looking for velocity data from stock 2400 guns and, if you’d be interested, I could chrony some of the same pellets you used through 2 Sheridan 2260s and a Crosman 2240. I don’t know if you are still unraveling that string or not or if these guns are similar enough to provide and useful data, but I thought I’d offer. Also, I can provide accuracy info for some different .177 pellets fired from several LW barrels. I have 2 Daisy 853s and a Daisy 777 that I have data for(if I can find it). Might give a peek at potential kibble for Sassy Sandy. Just let me know. Again, great job, beginning to end.
Hello Halfstep,
Many thanks for the many kind words! Yes, my approach has been what is available out of the box, though in the next (and final) two parts I do some part swapping and basic modding. After all my reading about it, I finally took a (small!) stroll down that road! However, I’m glad to report that you can get some VERY good performance straight outta the cardboard box. I’ve unraveled most of my velocity questions — in fact, that’s specifically what I wrap up next in Part 10 — but if you ever get around to getting some velocity numbers on your 2240 I’d be curious. Any 14.3 grain Crosman pellet would be a good middle-of-the-line one to try for some base comparison, and shots per fill also helpful. Glad you’ve enjoyed the series, and these are fine, fine little guns if you want to add one to your harem.
HiveSeeker,
As extensively as you’ve covered the stock guns you’d almost have to write about mods if you were going to keep writing. As I said before, lookin’ forward to it !
Forgot the pic !! Here it is.
HiveSeeker,
Here’s the 2240 data that I promised. It was done indoors at 69 degrees f. According to a report I read recently in HAM, Steven Archer has found that the muzzle velocity in a co2 pistol will increase 1.7 fps for every 1 degree f that the ambient temperature is raised, so some simple math will give you the numbers that fit the temp that you might be interested in.
I found that by shot 35-37 on every cartridge, regardless of what series of pellets I had been firing, the liquid co2 had all vaporized. I think I’m going to be doing some tinkering on this gun because I don’t like the shot count for plinking, which is all I do with it. The first 10 or 12 shots blow a cloud of co2 about 12″ in diameter and 6 feet long out of the barrel, so I think it may be wasting some gas in this short stock barrel. I think a lighter hammer/striker spring might make it more efficient, but this will be new to me, so that’s just an educated guess based on what I THINK I’ve learned since joining this blog. A smaller transfer port may be the answer. I’ll have to see. If you have any thoughts, I’d be pleased to hear them.
Hello Halfstep,
This is some great data that clearly took some time to generate — THANK YOU! I’ve archived this with my collection of stock Crosman data. Very thorough! I don’t think the pellet used has any effect on CO2 usage, so I think you would expect a similar shot count across the board.
Can you please point me to the HAM article you mentioned with Steven Archer comparing CO2 pistol velocity to ambient temperature? I poked around online a little bit but could not find it. Thank you.
HiveSeeker,
It’s the July 2017 HAM article updating a review of the Sig 320.
https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/airgun-test-reviews/sig-sauer-p320-co2-air-pistol-muzzle-velocity-update
And you are welcome.
And here’s the setup I prefer to use when I’m testing barrel/pellet compatibility in a gas gun. ( I don’t call it gun accuracy because it doesn’t account for the trigger or the balance of the gun ) It takes my fledgling trigger control, poor eyesight, breath control and all the other things you need to be a good shot out of the equation and gives me the high water mark that I can aspire to as my shooting improves.
Here it is again, this time in the correct thread. 🙂
It must be suppertime, I think I’m light headed. 🙂
BB,
Thanks so much for opening this blog to guest bloggers. I know it’s not just so you get a day off, because you don’t. It makes it abundantly clear that you want this blog to be a source of information exchange and learning and are willing to entertain anything that furthers that end. We shouldn’t, as readers, take it for granted. The reality is that this would be a very different place to spend our time if you were some egotist that kept such a firm control over the content here that we were only privy to subjects that fit your whims or censored comment that didn’t fit your view. You are a gentleman, a scholar, and, I will guess, a judge of fine whiskey!!
Ditto what Halfstep said. You can’t really measure enjoyment, but I have to say that I think I enjoy airgunning at least three times as much due entirely to this blog. Keeps things interesting, imparts knowledge, and deepens my appreciation for the guns I have — and where they came from. B.B. has been great and patient to work with, and truly invests in each blog, whether it is his own or from a guest contributor. This blog is a great resource, and I search it regularly on one gun or topic or another.
You’re doing a good thing!
HiveSeeker,
What is the length of pull?,… like on that carbon fiber model that you have.
Chris USA,
It’s 15 – 7/8 inches on the carbon fiber stock, and for some reason slightly shorter at 15 – 3/4 inches on my wife’s with the black stock.
HiveSeeker,
I did not expect that at all. That is perfect as all of my guns are set up for 15 1/4″ to 15 3/4″. Thank you.
HiveSeeker,
Unfortunately a lot of places I use to get custom 22xx parts no longer exists, Jim Giles of Crooked Barn and Ralph Brown of RB Grips to name a few.
Some still exists like GMAC Airguns (England), Alliance Hobby, Cothran Machine Shop and Vernon Austin makes nice grips (only current maker I know of who makes Crosman 600 Grips ).
It is possible to mod a 22xx to shoot a .22 CP 14.3g at over 800 fps,but you will need your gun modded with HPA(unsafe to go over 1000 psi in a 22xx) and a high performance valve. I also used a 18” barrel and a extended, hollow probe.
Good luck with your quest,
Kevan
Hi Kevan,
Poking around on eBay, I actually saw more vendors and products available than when I started checking modding out a couple years ago. I ended up ordering some parts from Alliance Hobby, which seems to carry most of the CO2 pistol mods and has an excellent seller reputation. The vendor also provides some excellent instruction lists for the various mods. Of course, if you can get the part directly from Crosman it’s cheaper.
Hey HiveSeeker,
Actually just made an order to Alliance Hobby but it was for sound baffles for my Gen 1 Marauder. If you want to add a splash of color to your 22xx s try GMAC out of England. The dollar is doing well against the pound so their parts are cheaper than they use to be, and they take PayPal. Also, I highly recommend their extended hollow probe that will give you about a 14 fps increase without loosing shot count and seems to make a 22xx more accurate because of the way the extended hollow probe seats the pellet.
The Quest Continues,
Kevan
Hi,
A little late to the party, but I wanted to thank you for answering a question I had. I’d bought a 2400kt early this year and have really enjoyed it. I got it with the 14″ barrel and have been pleased with it’s accuracy, especially with the JSB Exacts. As I’d got it with a sub-25 yard target and future squirrel gun for my kids, it’s exceeded my expectations in the target department.
I do some handloading as well, and had gotten a Chrono finally, after getting the 2400kt… but found that I was locked into ~450 fps. I added a power adjuster, and I have a collapsible stock sitting in wait to adjust the LOP shorter for my oldest daughter, now 8, as the stock one has a LOP more suited for an adult. Even throwing clouds of CO2 out the muzzle, I could never get it to crack 500 fps.
After seeing a lot of various posts of folks with 2400kts giving in excess of 500 from the shop, I was a little down thinking there was something wrong. Now, seeing that the valve differs if one was to choose one with a 18″ barrel, it makes me realize what I need to change out. I had made a cut hammer spring and was getting ~75 shots, albeit at under 400 fps before I went back to a full length stock spring and the adjuster dialed as needed to get back around 450, but as economical as possible.
I guess they’re two ways to skin a cat… and the valve is the better way. Better to throw a larger volume of air at the pellet near the breech to get it going right off the bat with valve adjustments than making the valve stay open longer and dumping more CO2 in the barrel after the pellet is well on it’s way down it.
I appreciate the work you put into your postings. They’ve been a go-to for me as I’ve been trying to determine the best course of action for my own gun. I would have likely gone to a modded valve next… but at least now I feel pretty good that the gun is operating properly… as it came with the more economical ‘target valve’.
Dicky,
Welcome to the blog!
B.B.
Thanks, B. B.!
Well, I took the info gleaned out of these blogs and a few other things and pulled my 2240kt apart this past week. I cut 2-3 threads worth of material off my spare valve, which I kind of hopes might of been a stock ‘power’ valve from Crosman… but it apparently was another target like what was already in my 2400kt. Report seems a little more meaty. I still have a stock hammer spring, but I can get it to shoot 18.13 gr JSBs (which it shoots pretty well) in the 500-520 fps range for about 20 shots. Not quite the 550+ fps I was hoping for but a marked improvement. I’ve got a power adjuster… and I can’t cock the bolt until I’m nearly 5 turns from fully in… so that speed is at 6 turns out. Dialing down for a mix of efficiency and power (12 turns out), I’m getting 14.3 gr CPHPs to move along at around 480 fps. They don’t shoot very tight in this gun… as I only group around ~1″ at 10 yards, but they’ll whack a soda can at 15-20 yards pretty much ever time… and I’m still getting ~60 shots/cartridge (and those are the cheapest pellets I can find). As interesting as it was taking the gun apart… I think I’m just going to be happy with what I have. I considered getting a barrel 18″ barrel and an aftermarket valve… and I could just get a whole other 2400kt for a few bucks more.
It’s a great time to be getting back into air guns! When I was about 11 years old and got my first air gun, a 66 powermaster, I didn’t know things existed like PCPs existed. When I was grown and saw them years back, they seemed pretty extravagant. I’d not considered PCPs for years because of the costs and, lo and behold, you can get a entry PCP for only a couple hundred bucks now-a-days. I think I’ll keep the 2400kt as a pretty efficient (so far as CO2 goes) shooter and just add something new to the collection. There’s so much to choose from.
Thanks again! I’ve enjoyed this one and several other blogs you’ve done. This may have been the only one I’ve posted to, but I’ve read a bunch of them and your efforts are much appreciated
DickyRivers,
I looked into the 2240 platform as well. Now,.. there is the Diana Chaser that is a repeater,… but new. PCP’s are great and yes,.. they are becoming more popular and cheaper. I have a few.
As a side note,… post (any) comment on the most current blog. That will get you the most responses. I am able to see your post on an older blog by using the Comments RSS choice at the upper right of the blog. Most people do not use it and will never see your post. It (is) good that you continued with your comment on the old blog though.
I too am into modding and tweaking air guns. It is a lot of fun and well worth the efforts given some up-front research. You are right,…. consider what is new and if it is worth it to mod. something older. Things are a changin’.
Welcome and hope to see you around on the current blog. Off topic is fine. Believe me. 🙂
Chris
Thanks Chris,
The main reason I was replying on this blog # (despite being late to the party) was based on it discussing the different valves that ship with the 2400kts, based on their barrel length. I hadn’t seen anywhere else where it discussed it… but it helped me identify that that’s why my velocity was disappointing slow, though I was getting many more shots than I had expected to get.
I just spent a couple hours today plinking around, actually. The velocity is fine for those purposes… I have a cheap scope I’d had on one of my .22 rifles… but since it lacks mil dots and the 2400kt is sighted in at 15 yards, anything past 20 becomes a bit of a crapshoot based on the pellets trajectory for accurate shooting. It’s such a light little thing, it’s about as good as I can manage offhand anyways without missing. I use one of these targets, along with a set of the 3 steel spinners they sell at Walmart made by Crosman… as long as I keep it in the circle or ding the steel, I’m happy.