by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Hatsan 85 Sniper rifle combo.
This report covers:
- New adaptor failed
- Scope and mount
- Sight-in
- JSB Exact Heavy
- H&N Baracuda Match with 4.52mm head
- H&N Baracuda Match with 4.53mm head
- Overall evaluation
We are back with the Hatsan 85 Mossy Oak Break Up combo today, looking at accuracy at 25 yards. We determined in Part 4 that the scope that comes with the package is unsuitable for the gun, so today I mounted a good scope on the rifle.
New adaptor failed
I was going to tell you about a new 11mm to Weaver adaptor today, too, but that part of the test failed when the scope fell off the rifle on the first shot. Since I am not sure how to mount this new adaptor, I’m not going to tell you who made it. I might have been the problem. I will converse with the manufacturer and see whether I did anything wrong.
Scope and mount
I went with a tried-and-true scope and mount. It’s an older version of the UTG 4-16X50. What a difference it made, too! I was able to focus on the target and get everything very sharp.
I had a set of medium height 2-piece BKL rings on this scope already, so it went on the rifle in seconds. Because it’s been used before, the scope reticle was aligned perfectly.
Hatsan 85 with UTG scope in BKL rings. This was quick and convenient!
Sight-in
I sighted-in at 12 feet and was on paper close enough to move to 25 yards after one shot. It took a few more shots at 25 yards to refine the sight picture, but I was on target in a few minutes. I wasn’t concerned about hitting the dead center of the bull, because I will be testing three different pellets that will probably go to three different places. As long as I was close, it was okay.
JSB Exact Heavy
Because they have been the best pellets in all the testing until now, I sighted-in and shot the first group with JSB Exact Heavy pellets. If you’ll recall, I put 10 of them into 1.499-inches at 25 yards with the open sights in Part 3. That gave me a baseline for the accuracy I should expect when the rifle is properly scoped.
This time, 10 JSB Exact Heavies went into 2.233-inches at 25 yards. That’s quite a bit larger than the group made with open sights, but it’s very close to the 2.362-inches I got with the combo scope in Part 4.
Ten JSB Exact Heavy pellets went into 2.233-inches at 25 yards when shot with the UTG scope.
This first group was disappointing. I knew the rifle was more accurate, so I tried an H&N Baracuda Match with a 4.52mm head next.
H&N Baracuda Match with 4.52mm head
Next up was an H&N Baracuda Match with a 4.52mm head. I hadn’t tried these pellets in this rifle before, so this would be a new experience. When 10 of them went into 1.422-inches at 25 yards I knew I had found a good pellet. That is the smallest 25-yard group I have seen so far in three separate sessions with the Hatsan 85.
Ten H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.52mm heads went into 1.422-inches at 25 yards.
H&N Baracuda Match with 4.53mm head
The last pellet I tried was the H&N Baracuda Match with a 4.53mm head. These had done well at 10 meters with open sights, and I hoped they would do well with a good scope. At any rate, we would get to see see the difference the pellet head size makes for a pellet that’s identical otherwise.
Ten pellets went into 1.585-inches at 25 yards. That’s certainly bigger than the group made by the 4.52mm head, but I would want to see five groups with each head size before making any conclusions.
Ten H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 4.53mm heads went into 1.585-inches at 25 yards. Although this is a larger group, I would continue to test this pellet if I owned the Hasan 85.
Overall evaluation
I like the Hatsan 85, overall. It’s got a good trigger that can be made better by adjustment. It’s relatively smooth shooting for the power you get. I also like the shape and fit of the stock.
The accuracy is okay, but it’s nothing to get excited about. I don’t know if I’ve tested it with the best pellet, but I do know that for the price it’s doing okay. I cannot rate it as a best buy because for that I would have to see much smaller groups. But of all the Hatsan spring rifles I have tested, I like this one best.
I didn’t test the rifle on the bipod yet, nor did I test the trigger screw. Bulldawg, if you’re still willing I’d like to take you up on the offer of that screw. If I have to make it it’s going to take a lot of time.
B.B.
I know you can shoot better…
I still do not know why you are so hesitant to install a 2mm longer screw. It really is no different than mounting a scope or adjusting a diopter. It would make all the difference in the world!
Hope you are feeling better,
-Y
Yogi,
I’m not hesitant. I simply don’t have the time to source the screw and modify it.
Time is precious to me. Each blog takes me a day to develop and write, and I have to budget my time carefully.
B.B.
BB
So why do you think you got a better group with open sights than with the scope with the JSB 10.34’s?
GF1,
What I think is that group with the scoped rifle is as bad as it gets. If I kept shooting I believe my groups with that pellet would be smaller.
B.B.
BB
Interesting. Usually it goes the other way. The more pellets that hit the paper the more chance for a bigger group. Scope or open sight.
BB
I happen to have two screws already made up the right length and rounded on the contact end for the sear so it will pivot smoothly on the screws. I will send you am email to your personnel address so you can respond with a shipping address that I can send them to you at so all you will have to do is install and adjust to the feel you like.
I believe it will help tighten the groups up a good bit with a trigger that breaks clean and crisp without any creep or drag .
BD
I too bought an 85 Sniper from PA in April, and I love it. I’m assuming you’re talking about replacing the 2nd stage trigger screw. Would I be able to just back the stock screw all the way out without causing any problems and then install the longer screw, or would something have to be done that I’m missing to keep things from coming apart. Just want to make sure before I take it out. Thank you
Ironhog
You will need to replace both the first and second stage screws as neither one is long enough to properly adjust the trigger. The screws are a 3mm X 0.5 pitch by 20mm long and you need to file or grind the ends that contact the trigger sear so that they have a rounded polished profile to smoothly slide on the sear.
Both screws can be removed without any issue of pieces falling out of the trigger just be sure to measure or take a picture of the factory screws positions pertaining to the amount the screws are above the trigger blade.
That will gave you a starting point for adjusting the new screws just remember the new screws are about 5mm longer so you will have to add that into the amount protruding above the trigger blade.
Then when you have the new screws at the approximate factory starting point only turn them 1/8 turn at a time to slowly sneak up on the adjustment since you can go to far and end up with a trigger that will not release the sear or one that will not latch properly and be very unsafe.
If you need any more info just ask as I am glad to help.
BD
Thank you BD. I have three Hatsans, an 85 .22 cal, a 155 Vortex .25 cal, and a Carnivore .35 cal. I’ve had the sears on the 155 polished etc, so it’s better. The 85 is good to me, and the Carnivore doesn’t need anything done to it in my opinion. I’ve had such good luck with my 85, I haven’t even put a scope on it yet, and my 155 leaves very little to be desired for a magnum springer. However, like many of us, I’m always thinking of and looking for ways to improve my accuracy. Is this a screw that I could most likely find at a hardware store like I did for my Benjamin Trail, or something I would have to order?? I really appreciate your time, and I’ll definitely give this a try.
Ironhog
Glad to help out. Your local lowes, home depot, or ace hardware may have the 3mm x .5 mm pitch by 20mm long or may not . I don’t know if you have a Fastenal or other industrial supply house that carries fasteners on hand but if not then you can order direct from Mcmaster-Carr or grainger and have them sent to your house for a reasonable charge and most times you only have to buy what you need or lot of 10 screws so you wont be stuck with ones you will never use.
All the hatsan’s I have shot with a quarto trigger hat has not been tuned are decent with the short screws they come with but no where what can be achieved by the longer screws.
BD
First let me say that I appreciate all the advice I get on here and from all the airgun community. It really has surprised me with how generous y’all are with your knowledge. Anyway, today I tried the longer trigger screw adj on my 155. I got the 3mmx.05×20 screw, ground it down until it was only about 3mm longer than the original, and rounded and polished it. I put it in to replace the first stage adj screw first, and left it backed out about 3mm so as to start at about the same place as with the stock screw. I left the second stage screw in, and the small rear screw has been out for several months. When I went to cock the gun, the sear wasn’t catching and the gun wouldn’t cock. So I backed it out a little and the sear would get stuck (I guess) so the only way I could get it to release is to pull the trigger. I put the stock screw back in just to see what would happen and no dice. The under lever would not release without pulling the trigger. Any advice is much appreciated.
Ironhog,
It sounds like the sear is hanging up on something. Grease can do it, or a burr on a part that’s close. The springs in these triggers are not that strong, and the parts have to be free to move or they will hang up and exactly what you are describing will happen.
B.B.
Ironhog
BB could be correct that the sear is hanging up on something since it sounds like the sear is not fully latching on the piston when cocked and therefore is not releasing the beartrap completely which would prevent the lever from being able to be closed back to the fire position.
If it is the same with the factory screw I would try putting the rear screw you have had out for awhile back in and set it at about the half way position and see if that fixes it. If it has a heavy coat of grease it could do the same thing.
Here is a video of how the Quattro is adjusted and what each screw does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttiyeyhaJmQ&trk_msg=D99252VSELFKVB1UI8VVGQSAOO&trk_contact=HEF53D8MABKJFOCS0KM0J56UP4&utm_source=Listrak&utm_medium=Email&utm_term=The+Golden+Trigger&utm_campaign=Quattro+Trigger+Video&utm_content=Buyers
You can also remove the action from the stock to see the actual sear engagement between the two sears thru a viewing holes in the side of the trigger housing.
Let me know how it turns out.
BD
Thank both of you, BB and BD. I did put the tiny rear screw back in last night and ran it in a good ways. I tried to cock it and barely got the under lever back up, simply pulling the trigger wasn’t working anymore, that’s when I decided not to try it again until I got some advice and got inside of it. I work and I’ve also got two little boys (2 and 4), but I’m going to try to get to it in the next day or two. Thanks again !!!
Ironhog
It sounds like something is not allowing the sear to fully latch into the piston or something is preventing the beartrap to be fully released when cocked so the cocking lever cannot be returned to the closed position.
I would remove the action from the stock to get a closer look at all the trigger parts and make sure there is nothing broke or binding up and if the sears are fully engaging when cocked.
BD
On the group size problem.
Do you think the reason you got a smaller iron sight group could be:
A: the possible small errors in aimpoint with iron sights at that distance nullified the inaccuracy of the gun, in effect making it group smaller.
Or
B: The weight of the scope above the bore threw off the harmonics of the artillery hold, similiar to holding it in a different hand rest position, and you just haven’t found that “magic spot” to hold it to make it group well with the scope yet?
Your thoughts on that?
45Bravo,
I think I shot the worst group possible with the scope and the best one possible with the open sights. Why, I can’t really say. I concentrated both times.
This is why I shoot 10 shots and not 5 for a group.
B.B.
45Bravo,
From my personal experience, magnum springers respond better to a smaller scope sitting as low as possible on the action. The larger scope gives you a better sight picture but the rifle then becomes unbalanced and more difficult to shoot.
Pete
Pete
And that backs up my point of why a open sight or a dot sight can shoot as good as a scope. Lower magnification.
It’s about how well you can repeat your POI (point of aim). No matter what type of sight you use.
Gunfun1,
I am of the opinion that many a springer might have been given a bad review by their owners because they chose to mount a large scope on the rifle. It is a common mistake that we beginners make with our first springer. When I started out I wanted the largest scope I could get just so I could pick off that fly on the cow’s back at 50 yds.
Lucky for me I could only afford a smaller scope at the time so I knew the rifle was a shooter. When I eventually got a larger scope and mounted it boy, was I ever disappointed.
Pete
Pete
With you 100%. And people pick out scopes for air guns as if they are going to be shooting them like a firearm rifle.
The type of sight you choose is very important for what type of gun you have along with the type of shooting you will do.
What’s bad about it. Is its hard to explain that to somebody until they actually try for themselves and see.
That’s why I’m always open to trying something just to see if it does improve something or not. How will you know unless try or you got somebody you trust informing you.
B.B.,
Be sure to update us the mount that did not stay put. I like the 11mm. – Weaver adapters. A BKL mount I have reqd. the screws to be reversed to “spread” the mount. That was a bit odd and made for a more complex set up. I also had a Hawke drooper that pivots at the front. One of the mounting screws stripped. Plus the height/droop adj. screw is hidden forcing the scope to be un-mounted to adjust it. Plus on that one, the front ring hit the mount and prevented the ring from settling into the Weaver slot all the way. Then, some have stop pins, while others do not.
I finally have 2 UTG DN T06 mounts now. They have a stop pin and mounted well. While a topic of much debate, I was able to keep optical center (mirror method) much better. 1/4-1/2 turn on E. That is on 2 nice springer under-levers that you would think would not have any droop,….(but as you have pointed out, they can have).
The other thing I commented on the other day was the rather fine/shallow and short machined 11mm. grooves paired with rings/mounts that have rounded and somewhat blunted gripping tips. Most profound was the 11mm. grooves on a Crosman 66 pumper which the grooves are much deeper and taller. And while no where in the same ball park as the springers, I found it interesting none the less.
So yea,…. mounts can be challenging little buggers.
Chris
Chris,
I think I know the mount he is referring to. I believe it is the new one that PA sells. I have been very curious about it also.
I have found two very good adapters that I would recommend to any sproinger shooter. They are the Hawke brand adapters that PA sells.
They are low, hold well AND they are adjustable for droop. I have the long one on my Diana 46E. It allows me to mount my compact scope back far enough that I can see without having to stretch forward and I can adjust the angle so the scope is in the middle of it’s adjustment range.
RR,
Not sure what one you are talking about. A PA# ? I even did a quick look around on the site and nothing jumped out. Thanks on the Hawke opinion. I did not care for the one with the front pivot. A fixed drooper mount might be ok. And yes, low is good if you can get it or do it.
Chris,
This is the adapter I am talking about.
/product/utg-universal-dovetail-to-picatinny-weaver-adapter?a=7311
I hope this is the one BB is going to review for us. I have it in my Wish List.
RR,
Thanks. Looks nice, and low for an adapter. I like it. What are looking to put it on?
I think it mentioned flat and rounded dovetails. Not sure what that means though.
Chris,
It is referring to whether the dovetails are cut directly into the compression tube of a sproinger or like on a Discovery and the area between the two slots is a round hump which some mounts have trouble clearing or is a flat between the two as on many PCPs such as on a Marauder. Sometimes even the flat can be a challenge to overcome, as on the Hatsan.
Oops, I just noticed that you have tried the Hawke and do not care for it. My bad.
Chris,
I’m already talking with the manufacturer about that mount. Hopefully I did something wrong, or failed to do something I should have done.
That adaptor is too valuable to overlook, so I do plan to report on it.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thank you. You have my full attention with “valuable”. I will be looking forward to the follow up. Always open to something new. As you have said in the past,…. this is a great time to be an air gunner.
Chris
Chris,USA
Those BKL mounts are designed to have to spread the dovetails in order to be installed so as to have the most secure and non movable grip on the guns dovetails.
I have two springers with BKL mounts on them with no stop pins and they do not move at all ever with one being the FWB 124 that I have a TX spring in it shooting JSB 10.34s at 725 fps and the other being a Benjiman Ttian NP and it has a decent recoil shooting JSB 15.89s at 750 fps. If they did not cost so much I would use them exclusively on all my guns since in my opinion they are the finest mounts made and truly the only mounts that when mounted are perfectly centered on the dovetails as compared to most other that are a mm or 2 offset from true center.
It shows up in the amount of windage required to get the guns sighted in as my two spring guns and three PCPs with BKL mounts have less than 1/2 turn of windage dialed in to put them on target whereas most all others are 1 turn or more to get sighted in.
Just my opinion on there design and quality. I would rather have to spread the dovetail to install than have to continually check and tighten mount screws to prevent movement during use.
BD
BD76,
Thanks for the input on the BKL’s. You made some good points. I will not discount them in the future.
Chris,USA
I was skeptical myself at first when I got the 124 and it had the BKLs on it that how could they stay put without a stop pin. When I went to change scopes and move the mounts on the dovetails they would not move by just loosening the screws so I had to remove one screw and install it in the threaded hole there just for the purpose of spreading them to install on the dovetail.
That convinced me that they indeed were some of the best mounts made and the fact that they have not moved on either gun yet.
I just wish they weren’t quite so expensive.
BD
BD76,
The BKL I got was a 1 pc. tri-11mm. Not even sure why I bought it. If you have followed the progress on the M-rod set up choices,…. you will remember that I am going for a lower and offset stock/butt position as opposed raising a scope,…. to accommodate my usual than larger proportions. The thought at the time, was that I was going pretty low and it felt un-natural on the cheek weld. But, going too high on scope looses cheek weld. Hence, the adj. comb added to the mix.
What a mix huh? I feel good about the direction I am heading. I know one thing, PA got some coin while I was figuring all that out. 🙁
Chris,USA
I have not completely followed the Mrod build but knew you were going to a AR style butt stock but did not know it was to lower the cheek weld for low scope mounts on it. I did now you are a tall person with long arms so it makes sense to go that route.
I have medium BKL two piece mounts on my 177 Mrod and the one I bought for my oldest grandson has the medium offset two piece mounts on it and is a Gen 1 177 caliber as well. My 25 with the AR stock like yours I have medium UTG mounts on it but I am only 5′ 10″ tall so it worked well for me and worked since I have had valve issues with it so its still not completed as of yet.
Don’t feel alone as I am air gun po as well right now.
BD
BD76,
Well, the AR style is set. R-Arms. Butt stock is still open, but I think I have that narrowed down. LP compressors are the current search interest as well as LP air dryers/filters.
Next will be the scope. I will get to revisit all my notes on scopes and ask new questions. The UTG/Leapers works well for me and are priced well.
After that,… bye-bye some coin.
GF1 had some good points on going direct to gun from HP compressor. Reduced heat and shorter run time were key to me. But, he has that big LP hose on the way to the HP compressor as well. I have seen LP filters all the way from 5 microns to 40.
If do-able,… extending the pipe/tubing/coil from the comp. to the LP tank may be an option. Cool that air before it hits the LP tank is the idea. That, and a good moisture trap on the way to the Shoebox. Frequent drain intervals and shorter run times too.
You may remember the Omega was the goal. Let’s just say I got some feedback that said they are not all that they are cracked up to be. Too bad,….. they looked good. I liked the all in one approach and was willing to pay for it.
Chris,USA
Yea I just got it all from Dave as he gave me a good deal on it all and I am just waiting till I get the 25 back together and figure which height snap on cheek weld I need to put on the AR butt stock I have and go with that but I am more of a common size person so it not that hard to fit me in that respect.
Yea on my LP compressor like I told you it runs about 10 to 15 minutes filling my 33 gallon tank reservoir and then I let the compressor and air in the tank cool for 10 minutes, then drain my 33 gallon tank of any moisture that was built up. I start my shoebox up and I run it with the cover off of it so when I am filling one of my tanks I use an extra external fan on the cylinders to supplement the factory installed fan. When filling guns I don’t use the extra fan because it only running for 10 minutes or less. But when filling tanks to 4500 psi I only allow the shoebox to run for 20 minutes at a time and then a 15 minute rest to cool down with the external fan blowing on the cylinders constantly and that is the routine I have used for the 2 plus years I have owned it and no rebuild yet. My LP compressor only runs every hour or so as the 33 gallon tank supplies 85 psi air to the shoebox for that long with the fill routine I use on the tanks and then after the LP compressor fills the 33 gallon tank back up it do the 10 minute cool down and rain routine on it before resuming the filling of a tank.
I have yet to have to drain my filter/drier between the LP compressor and the shoebox since it has never had moisture in it and I also have some desiccant bag from my medicine bottles in the filter/drier that are paper wrapped so I can see if the paper is moist and no moisture seen yet.
I looked at the omegas as well but just more than I was willing to spend and the only true advantage of them to me is faster fill times.
BD
BD76,
Your set up sounds solid. Limited run and frequent drain of LP tank seems to be the theme. I like the cover off idea and extra fans as well.
You mentioned “too cool” the other day,….. there is dryers that use refrigerant to cool the air to a dry state. So maybe, too cool is not so bad. Still need to study that more.
Out’a here,….. Chris
BD76,
I mentioned this to GF1 the other day,….. take a tall person,….. measure from shoulder point to eye. (horizontal lines, up/down spread) Then,…. take the shoulder point to the eye (vertical lines, side to side spread). Those will be further apart on a taller person. Those factor into fit and something I believe I am dealing with.
Out’a here,…… Chris
Chris,USA
I am with you on both accounts and I guess the cool air thing is going to be if you can keep it at a constant temp all the way to the gun which you cannot so once you get it ice cold and it starts to warm at all it will attract moisture faster than just cool air in my opinion but I could be wrong.
Yea anything over 6 feet is generally out of the norm and makes it hard to fit for someone your height.
BD
Another inaccurate Hatsan. I own three( 125, 105x, and a 95) only the 95 shoots just ok. Where did you get the 4.53 Baracuda pellets? Your link goes to the 4.52 size.
Scott,
I bought them awhile back. Pyramyd AIR sometimes takes the pages down when items are not in stock, so the 4.52 was all I could link to.
B.B.
Well, the accuracy isn’t there and it comes with a poor scope. So far a nonstarter. But, perhaps the .25 cal. version would show us something. 🙂
Mike
On the bright side, it makes the Chinese stuff look good.
twotalon
TT
I have to think about that one. But two of those words in your comment don’t seem to go together. They start with a C and a G.
GF1
Well, I did try to say something good about it .
I only have one Hatsan . A Daisy Powerline 1000 . Have more than enough Chinese .
I think I will stick with German .
twotalon
TT
With you on the German guns.
But don’t forget the English guns either. I here they make a heck of a good under lever springer. Well and pcp’s too.
GF1
I do have two rifles from AA . Both pcp . I would be tempted to buy another S500 carbine if I could get one in .177 . Superlite series is very nice to carry .
twotalon
TT
Never noticed they don’t offer it in .177 caliber.
Is that just the S500 carbine model?
GF1
Appears to be just that model .
Could get a 510 carbine, but I trust the reliability of single shot .
No clip/scope clearance problems either .
twotalon
TT
All good points you made.
I like the single shot the best also.
And how is that FWB doing?
GF1
Still waiting on more suitable weather .
I keep looking at the targets I shot up on that one day and have some questions that I need to work on.
That’s what usually happens . Find out a few things, but come up with questions to work on next time . Eventually, all questions get answered but can take some time and work .
twotalon
TT
Ok and interested in your thoughts when you get more involved in it.
B.B.,
It’s disappointing that this rifle is not more accurate than this. It seems that Hatsan has made great strides in their designs and quality. They seem genuinely motivated to constantly improve, which is certainly not the case with far too many manufacturers.
Might it simply be that they do not know how to make accurate barrels?
Michael
Michael
I will say it is not that Hatsan cannot make accurate barrels since I have a AT44S10 long that is a tackdriver at 50 yards with sub 1/2″ groups with little effort. I believe it is more to do with it being a springer with excessive recoil that is the issue.
Hatsan springers are comparable to Dianas in that they design and make magnum guns after the power levels that PCPs are capable of and when doing so they sacrifice a lot of accuracy till the perfect hold is found if it ever actually is. If they would build the springer for a more reasonable level of power I think you would see some very accurate spring guns.
BD
Buldawg
You remember how much I had to do to get that Hatsan springer you got from me to shoot smooth. Then it didn’t have enough power to shoot the pellet with much velocity. It did get more accurate than how it was when it came out of the box.
And it was a .25 caliber. And I knew when I bought it that I was getting it to challenge myself to see if I could make a .25 springer work.
And I still wonder if that SaS system is hurting the guns performance.
GF1
Yea that 200s was a challenge for sure but you never put the longer trigger screws in it so you were fighting a lousy trigger as well which did not help either. Once I got the trigger parts to fix the safety and installed the longer screws that made the trigger a true two stage trigger and not a lawyers two stage trigger it was easier to anticipate the release which help accuracy a good bit but it was still not as good as my At44 by any means.
But at 500 fps with JSB 25 grainers it was just lobbing them out there so not worth much past 25 yards for sure and even though it had the TX spring in it which reduced the recoil a good bit. Since I never shot it with the original spring you broke before I got it from you I cannot comment on it in factory form but it was still a beast to cock and shoot and is why I traded it off as well. I don’t put much faith in that SAS system since the bushing that is supposed to absorb recoil is far to stiff to do much of anything in my opinion.
You know me I want a very flat trajectory and the 200s did not have that at all. I have no use for a 25 caliber plinker shooting 500 fps.
BD
Buldawg
I have to disagree about a lousy Hatsan trigger as it comes from the factory.
The Hatsan trigger is like night and day to the Crosman break barrel triggers. They are lousy. Even with the bearing trick. That makes them better. But to me the quattro trigger in the Hatsan spring guns is way better.
And even with the lousy Crosman trigger I could still shoot them good.
So here’s the disagree part. Me shooting the out of the box Hatsan trigger was no problem. I think that comes from me having a better feel of the trigger when I shoot. I know you mentioned several times you have trouble feeling the trigger when you shoot.
Now on the other hand your long screw mod in the Hatsan trigger is probably a good thing. But I haven’t shot a modded trigger screw that you mention. So I can’t say for sure one way or the other how that feels when being done to the trigger.
GF1
Well all I can say is to me the stock Hatsan quattro trigger is no better than a crosman break barrel trigger in terms of feedback and smoothness of release as well as predictability of release. But then I do have loss of feeling in my fingers from 45 years as a mechanic handling hot parts and building up a leather like skin on my finger tips.
I know you have not shot a Hatsan with the trigger adjusted correctly and I will say this is it is night and day difference when set correctly and rivals any TX, FWB or T01, T05 or T06 trigger other than the 300s since those are in a league of their own. I am not saying the triggers keep a person from being able to shoot the guns decent but one that is adjusted correctly makes it far less of a chore to anticipate the release since you know exactly when it will release and how much pressure it will take to make it break .
I will say that the stock Hatsan trigger to me anyway feels like I am pulling on a air impact guns trigger that is so unpredictable in the start point of when the impact will come to life that you have to hang on to it just to keep it from twisting in your hands and for me makes shooting accurately just about impossible.
The bearing trick in a crosman trigger only smooth’s out the feel and does nothing to change the release point or crispness at all. Installing a GRTIII trigger in them is again night and day difference and can also be adjusted to get as good a trigger as any of the above mentioned guns in my opinion.
Different strokes for different folks is all I will say. The 200s was just a cantankerous beast regardless of what you did to try to shoot it accurately.
BD
BD
I had the Hatsan 44 QE. Didn’t need to adjust that trigger either but it is a pcp. Did you mod your 44 trigger? Or was it ok as shipped?
And have to disagree about the Crosman trigger too. They are not 2 stage triggers like the Hatsan trigger. And if can say I had no problem feeling stage two on the trigger of the Hatsan spring gun you got from me. I guess I can just feel the triggers better than you.
GF1
I remember you had the AT44 QE and all I can say is you either got a perfectly adjusted trigger in it which I highly doubt or you missed out on a trigger that could have been far better than it was. The triggers in the PCPs don’t need longer screws installed since they are allen head set screws that have plenty of adjustment length from the factory and while mine in my AT44 was decent from the factory it was by no means good as compared to after I have adjusted it to have a very distinct stop and actual click feel in the trigger blade at the second stage with just the slightest more pressure and it breaks clean as glass.
It is every bit as good as my 124, 48, or Mrods trigger is and as good as a TX or HW trigger that I have shot at the FT club. The only triggers better than it that I own are the 300s but then I should think they would be far superior as well.
I agree the crosmans are not a true two stage trigger until you put a GRTIII trigger in them. What I was comparing between them and the 200s was the ambiguity of the feel and smoothness of both triggers in stock form as in my opinion neither one was worth a hoot until either the trigger was replaced in the crosman or the correct length screws were installed in the 200s. Both stink without some owner modifications performed.
BD
BD
Buy the Hatsan trigger felt good to me.
I think the big thing is owner preference.
And if I remember right you couldn’t even shoot the one 300 you got from me. You said you couldn’t even feel stage two. The shot went off when you touched the trigger. But I asure you there was a first and second stage I could feel on that gun. It was a very very light trigger for sure. But I could feel it.
So I guess I must adapt to different guns easier or something then.
GF1
Your At44 must have been set on the close side of being considered an unsafe lawyer trigger as mine needed a good bit of adjustment to feel right for me anyway. But you are right it is a lot of owner preference when it comes to triggers and how each person likes it.
Yea the one 300s was very light so that I could just feel the second stage but not enough to prevent me from going right past it and firing the gun so I did add just a bit more weight to it but only enough for me to feel exactly where it is and no more.
I do not have the sensitivity in my fingertips like most since they have been cut, burned, ground down and abused for 45 years working on cars and bikes so I have very little if any nerve endings left in the tips of my fingers. But then I have never been very sensitive as far as the sense of touch is concerned with my hands and fingers.
Just like my tolerance to pain is greater than most peoples so I have cut or burned my self and not know it till I see the blood or smell the flesh. I broke my left shoulder blade and top 4 ribs in my chest in 97 in a bike wreck and was back at work in 3 weeks as a car mechanic doing my normal job so while I was still hurting it was not enough to keep me home since I was not making any money at home on the couch and the bills still have to be paid.
BD
BD
I would say sensitivity does make a difference in the way the shot feels as it goes off.
But I’m really still thinking the Hatsan spring gun problem is the shot cycle and possibly the SaS system.
Here’s a example on a gun I have. First its been quite a while since I got my first pcp gun the Discovery. And the trigger is a single stage on them.
Here’s what got me thinking. That 1377 I converted with a Discovery barrel and steel breech and the Discovery trigger assembly. And adapted the Discovery stock to the 1377.
It’s a very accurate gun done up that way. But and again it’s been a while since I owned a Discovery pcp. And all I can say is it has a terrible single stage trigger. I think since I have shot more types of air guns over time that I’m use to a good trigger now. So that makes the Discovery trigger feel not good to me.
But that being said. The trigger doesn’t add up to a good trigger to me but that converted 1377 shoots good. Point being. I believe the shot cycle is what’s making the difference of how accurate a pump or pcp gun shoots compared to some spring guns.
I know everything makes a difference. But I think some characteristics of a gun affect accuracy more than others. And of course the shooter being able to adapt to some characteristics of the gun.
So with the Hatsan springer I think there will be more to getting better accuracy than the trigger.
Well hopefully when BB gets the srews from you that it does help the gun out. We will have to wait and see.
GF1
I agree the disco trigger is not a true two stage trigger but it can be made into a decent trigger that acts like a two stage trigger. The one I just traded for the QB79 I had went thru and adjusted the two screws so it had about a 1/4″ of first stage then tweaked the spring so it had just enough tension to set the sear when cocked and adjusted the overtravel screw to the point it just allowed the sear to release. it was not near as good as the Hatsan or true two stage triggers but it had a nice light first stage with a definite stop at the take up on the travel and then just a light squeeze and it fired.
I agree the accuracy with the MOBU is more the springer recoil than the trigger buit I am just hoping the trigger takes one less variable out of the equation so BB may ber able to get a decent group
GF1
It got posted to soon. I am hoping the trigger will take on less variable out of the equation so BB may be able to shoot a decent group with it. Not being able to actually feel the trigger I cannot say if its close to how good it can be or not for him.
I truly don’t have my hopes up to high for the Hatsan as they tend to go for power over shootability or smoothness in their springers.
But we will see once he get the screws and adjusts the trigger to what I know it can be like that it will be one less thing to have to concentrate on when shooting.
We will see.
BD
BD
Go to the bottom.
I’m writing a reply now.
Hi Bulldawg
I have 2 Hatsans. A 125 & Striker, both in .177 caliber. I found the best way to get good groups is to hold them as lightly as possible & rest the fore stock on my open palm just under the stock screws with the back of my palm on the bag( rolled up pillow). Also adjusted the trigger to be as light as safely possible. Both are scoped with Nikko Stirling 3-9×40 standard scopes (no AO). I can get groups that fit inside a half inch diameter coin at 25 yds if I concentrate. Maybe I’ve been lucky to get guns with accurate barrels! It was their accuracy that made me buy them off my friend. They’re also very powerful guns.
Errol
Errol
I agree with you on how you shoot and hold the Hatsans to get good groups and since you obliviously have adjusted your triggers correctly you know what I mean about them from the factory being very unpredictable and rough feeling as can be.
I tried the tight hold on the 200s I got form GF1 but with the arthritis in my hands I just could not grip and hold on to it well enough to keep it from jumping out of my hand so never could get decent groups from it. Besides I was not impressed with the wimpy power it had shooting at only 500 fps as my 177 Mrod has 4 fpe more than it had and I can shoot 1/4″ groups with it at 50 yards all day long.
I believe they make very good barrels and the key is as you say in finding the right hold that keeps them from jumping all over the place but I just don’t have the strength in my hands anymore to be able to shoot them good.
BD
Michael
I too had a Hatsan pcp 44 QE model and it shot pretty good.
From the Hatsan spring guns I had they never did shoot real accurately. Tryed the artillery hold among many other holds and rests.
I think it’s just not going to get pcp accuracy out of their springers. I myself think they use the wrong spring in them and I don’t really care for that SaS system. They say it’s suppose to help but I think it hurts it’s performance.
It seems the guns are made fairly nice. But maybe the use of some wrong prices is making the gun be accurate
And on another note. Maybe there are people out there that are happy with the accuracy BB got at 25 yards. It might work for the kind of shooting they do. So I can’t knock the Hatsan springer. It’s that just don’t expect it to be something its not.
Suppose to say wrong pieces. Not prices.
My phone changing my wording again. And I now notice it happens after I put the period at the end of a sentence.
Michael,
Hatsan can make an accurate barrel. It’s the spring gun platform that gives them trouble.
B.B.
Speaking of spring gun platform, are you going to test the Hatsan 135 in .30 caliber?
Scott,
Either that or their .35 cal. breakbarrel.
B.B.
.35 caliber? Is that a misprint, or did I miss something? I thought the .30 was the biggest offered.
Scott,
I misspoke.
B.B.
awww that .30 cal break barrel…..that gun gives me hope that the break barrel smooth bore shot gun isn’t dead just yet.
So, this “camouflaged hunter” can’t get a small enough group to take a rabbit cleanly at 25 yards?, what is it for then?, I’ve got a 35 year old HW35 that will do half inch groups at that range, heck old Airsporters that will do an inch, Taxes to be paid, death inevitable, youth wasted on the young and Hatsan can’t make a decent springer….nothing changes.
Buldawg
What two screws are you talking about on the Discovery trigger?
Do you mean the Marauder trigger?
GF1
Your trigger housing does not have two 1/2″ long allen head set screws threaded in from the rear of the housing that limit the trigger first stage length of pull and the overtravel. It has two holes that can have set screws installed to adjust those two setting since they contact the rear of the trigger blade inside the housing.
Then you just bend the spring slightly to lessen the tension on the trigger blade and you will have a decent trigger that has a light first stage of how ever much distance you like in your trigger and then set the overtravel to just past the point of sear release so it clears the hammer and you have what feels like a two stage trigger in your disco.
If you do not see two holes in the rear side of the housing that are inline with the trigger blade then you have a very old housing since they have updated the housing to have provisions for set screws to adjust the trigger first stage travel as well as overtravel.
https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/articles/203544750-BP9M22GP-Owner-s-Manual-EVP-2008-Present-
Look at the rear of part 12 in the schematic for the disco and notice the two empty holes in the in it that have no reason for being there, if you install long set screws of I believe 4-40 thread or 5-40 thread you have some adjustments you can make to the trigger blade for first stage travel and overtravel.
BD
BD
Oh ok. I thought you were saying they came from the factory with the setscrews in place.
And yes mine has he bosses but the holes are not drilled out or even threaded. And yes it is a old housing. It is from my first Discovery shortly after they came out.
Gf1
The one I had must have been modified by the guy I got it from since it had the screws in there when I got it so I assumed it was factory but after looking at the schematic I see they do not even show the screws. I just wonder why the housings have the bosses and the newer ones are drilled out but not threaded to accept the screws. It makes you wonder if the lawyers got to them before they could put screws in place so it could be adjusted by the owner.
Dirty rotten scoundrels is all I will say.
BD
BD
Yep that’s what I mentioned when we was just texting. That whoever had the gun before you probably modded it.
And how did you determine the new ones are drilled out. You can’t see with the veiw they give on the schematics. Well I can’t any way when I look at the schematics.
GF1
Look at the pics I texted you as I have an extra housing and the holes are drilled out on it.
BD
BD
Maybe somebody already did since you got it used.
I’m saying it’s hard to tell on the Crosman/Benjamin schematic.
GF1
No the one in the pics I sent you is brand new not used as I got it as a spare since the one that came on the gun had been super glued to the tube and I was not sure I could clean the glue off but was able to .
BD
BD
Hmm, I guess they are drilled then now.
And they should have those setscrews as part of the trigger assembly on the Disco trigger. That would make the trigger a little more user friendly. I think anyway.
GF1
I agree the screws should be a part of it from the factory as well but it does not show them in the schematic at all.
You need to install some as it makes a much nicer trigger .
BD
BD
I’m going to try it. At least it might make it more enjoyable to shoot anyway.
Gf1
I think you will be pleased with the results since you can set the pull travel and overtravel to be how you like it and then bend the spring some to lighten the tension so it makes it a nice light faux two stage trigger.
BD
BD
Going to try it out this weekend. Maybe Friday even. Thinking about taking off.
GF1
Cool let me know what you think when you get it done.
Its going to be a low of 40 here Friday and 35 Saturday with only a high of 59 here on Saturday so I guess the ground hog was wrong as winter is not over yet. Its raining here now and will be till the am tomorrow.
BD
BD
About the same here for the weather.
And yep will let you know how it works out.