FWB 300S (top) and 600.
This report covers:
- The test
- Background
- RWS R10 Match Heavy
- H&N Match Heavy
- The winner!
- JSB Simply wadcutters
- Something new
- Summary
Today I do something I’ve wanted to do for a long time. I pit the FWB 300S target rifle against the FWB 600 target rifle to see which one is more accurate. This should be good.
The test
I shot both rifles off a sandbag rest at 10 meters. I shot five-shot groups with the two most accurate pellets for each rifle. It was easy to find the most accurate pellets for the 600 because I had recorded that data as I tested but I couldn’t find where I had tested the 300 that way. I probably did; I just couldn’t find it. I did find a test of the 300S where two pellets stood out. As fate would have it the two most accurate pellets were the same for both rifles.
To keep bias as low as possible I shot the 600 first with one pellet and the 300S first with the other. I’m trying to dial myself out of the equation.
Background
I recently received four new .177 pellets from Pyramyd AIR to test and I was going to use the FWB 600 for that test. That’s when I stumbled across a statement I made in a past report saying I wanted to do today’s “who’s better?” test. And at the end of today’s test I resolved to shoot a final group with one new wadcutter pellet in whichever rifle seemed more accurate — if the test turned out to show a difference.
RWS R10 Match Heavy
The first pellet tested was the 8.3-grain RWS R10 Match. The FWB 300S put five into 0.14-inches between centers at 10 meters. As I shot the rifle I was reminded that the peep sight comes back when the action moves in the stock to cancel recoil. I wear reading glasses so no real harm done, but the feeling when the glasses are bumped by the sight is unpleasant.
The FWB 300S put five RWS R10 Match Heavy pellets into a 0.14-inch group at 10 meters. That wins the gold dollar comparison coin for groups smaller than 0.15-inches between centers.
The FWB 600 was next with the same R10 pellet. This time five pellets went into a group measuring 0.043-inches between centers at 10 meters. This is one of the smallest 10-meter groups I have ever shot.
The FWB 600 put five RWS R10 Match pellets into this 0.043-inch group at 10 meters. This is the smallest group of today’s test and one of the smallest 5-shot groups I have ever shot. It gets the silver Chuckram coin for a group smaller than one-tenth-inch between centers.
Clearly the FWB 600 wins the first contest. It is also completely without movement that I can detect when it fires.
H&N Match Heavy
It’s time to try the H&N Match Heavy that was the other accurate pellet.. The FWB 600 goes first this time. At 10 meters it put five H&N Match Heavy pellets into a group that measures 0.057-inches between centers. And I got up after shooting four pellets and actually switched rifles on the sandbag for the next group, thinking I had shot five. Then I spotted a lone pellet still in the lid where I had deposited five for the first group. So, I had to bring the 600 back and shoot that final pellet. That’s a lot of disruption, yet the group was still great!
At ten meters the FWB 600 put five H&N Match Heavy pellets into a 0.057-inch group.
And now for the FWB 300S. It was able to put five H&N Match Heavy pellets into a 10-meter group that measures 0.163-inches between centers. It’s an okay group but not as good as the one made by the FWB 600.
The FWB 300S put five H&N Match Heavy pellets into a 0.163-inch group at 10 meters.
The winner!
The FWB 600 is clearly the most accurate target pellet rifle tested today. Now when I want to find how accurate and consistent a .177 pellet is at close range I have this rifle to call on.
JSB Simply wadcutters
Now that I knew the best rifle to test with, I shot a final group with one of the four new pellets I received from Pyramyd AIR — the JSB Simply. They come in two different weights — 8.02 grains and 8.26 grains. I shot the latter. The 600 put five of them into 0.203-inches at 10 meters. That is the largest group shot today and it tells us very well where the JSB Simply pellet falls. It’s a plinking wadcutter at best in the FWB 600.
This is my first encounter with the JSB Simply pellet.
The Simply tin does not give a head size that we expect to find on containers of premium match pellets. So it’s obvious this one is meant as a plinker or “practice” pellet. I put quotes around the word practice because I don’t know any competitive target shooter who would ever shoot a pellet that wasn’t the best in his airgun.
Also, can somebody please help JSB find a person to name their pellets? Perhaps they could use the person who wrote the 1965 Honda S100 motorcycle owner’s manual — as in , “…please to connect earthing wire before charging battery in vehicle.”
The FWB 600 put five JSB Simply pellets into a 0.203-inch group at 10 meters.
Something new
I did something new today. I sized the photos of the targets larger than life to show just how small some of the groups are. You may not recognize this from the comparison coins but the sizes of the pellets next to the groups are a good indication.
I can only do this when the groups are very small because there are photo size restrictions I must follow. Please tell me if this helped or hindered your ability to understand this report.
Summary
This was an interesting test to conduct and an interesting report to write. We now know that the FWB 600 is the most accurate close-range .177 rifle I own. That will no doubt prove valuable in the future.
B.B.,
Nice shooting.
“Please tell me if this helped or hindered your ability to understand this report.” Neither.
I do, however, prefer the actual size for groups. If i want to see the details oversized i can use my devices capabilities to enlarge the image.
shootski
PS: Edit continues to function on my Android tablet.
shootski,
Thanks for the feedback on the pix.
BB
Many of us are familiar with the “trime” to “dime” measurements, so enlarging the pictures is merely accomplishing what we’d do naturally. So, no harm, no foul. Now, let’s see what can be accomplished out to 25 yards. I’ve really enjoyed these past few blogs, well I enjoy them all, but these especially. These especially, as I just recently purchased my new HW97K with 22 cal and a walnut stock to go along with my TX200. There are now 5 rifles and 4 handguns in my airgun collection. . . Is there a cure? If so, I don’t want it. Thanks, Orv
Orv,
Thanks for the feedback on the pix. And as the HW97K report progresses I hope to hear more of your thoughts.
BB
Dear BB,
Helped!
Mike
Mike,
Thank you. Is there any reason that you can share of why today’s pix helped?
BB
Actually, if you hadn’t asked I might not have thought about it, and even now as I look back at previous images of groups, the composition looks similar: group, coin, pellet, and all cropped to focus on just that. Some of the bb gun groups have been large in real life, and these FWBs groups are tiny. But it looks proper in my mind to have the images at similar and easy-to-see sizes, with some kind of scale (the coin) to appreciate the group size. Old Polaroid or print photos, or today’s smartphone screens, are of a certain size that is easy to take in at one glance; say it is around 3×5 inches or 8×10 centimeters viewed at half-arm length. Big poster prints are fine but are meant to be seen from a distance where they look smaller, and large computer screens are to see multiple images (or windows or whatever). These very small groups, magnified to that proper size are easy to take in at a glance, so I’m not peering at a tiny hole in a small photo. Also, at this magnification one can start to appreciate the scale of accuracy between one of these guns and another, down to the size of split fibers of paper.
-Mike
BB,
very interesting test, and very good shooting. I think I couldn’t be this accurate without a scope.
I have some thoughts about this.
1. What you might actually have tested is which rifle is more accurate for you.
I suppose that’s fair enough and probably the most relevant for your purposes. Who’s going to shoot them if not you…
2. How many groups have you shot in total?
With rifles this accurate, it might be necessary to shoot several groups to get a consistent picture. Yes I know, you have to crank out a blog almost every day and don’t have the luxury to play around with a single gun as long as I can… But a rematch might be interesting.
3. The 300 results don’t look that impressive.
My expectation was that neither rifle was going to be more accurate because 300s already seem to be “as good as it gets”.
Yes, these are very good groups, but maybe not amazing for a 300. I think H&N FMH should work very well as should RWS R10. Qiang Yuan Olympic might also be a good.
4. What’s up with those JSB pellets?
Either the 600 *really* doesn’t like them or they seem *very* pricey for the performance level offered. I think I might be able to shoot a group like that with my 300 with H&N Sport or Excite Econ II.
But at least they are what it says on the tin.
5. Maybe I should put my money where my mouth is
Yeah I know, that’s a lot of nitpicking from some know-it-all Kraut. Does anybody want me to take my scoped ’78 300S and see what I can do with different pellets?
Stephan
Stephan,
Well yes, you know-it-all Kraut. BB wants to see you put your money where your mouth is.
And how can you converse so well in a language that’s not your native tongue? I have trouble in English!
BB
FM is able to “converse” very well in almost any human language by cheating with ChatGpt…understanding the conversation, that’s another matter. He speaks English! He learned it from a boooook!
As for an opinion on enlarging-vs-not-enlarging pics: go with what makes it simpler, easier and less time-consuming when it comes time to write your blog post of the day.
FM, he is enjoying these comparison tests you are doing with different airguns and pellets – looking forward to what is yet to come.
Stephan, Yes! I always enjoy seeing how well others do.
For the good of the Order: I have been using the Simply Pellets for a while now. My take on them is that they are unsorted whereas Exact pellets are “carefully selected.” They probably vary in head size and therefore are not as accurate as JSB’s other offerrings. They have never been the best pellet in any gun I have tested them in. Often, other budget pellets like the Econ II or HN Sports do better.
Stephan
Yes, test your scoped 300S Feinwerkbau with different pellets.
Deck
Stephan,
“Does anybody want me to take my scoped ’78 300S and see what I can do with different pellets?”
JUST DO THAT!
Einfach mal machen!
Stephan,
A lot of my field target colleagues have been talking about the variability of JSB and Air Arms, how one time it seems you get good tins of pellets and other times you don’t. I know that my HW100 started out preferring JSB and AA 4.52 10.34 heavies and all of a sudden the groups started opening up. Now H&N Barracuda 4.52 10.65’s have taken their places. A lot of the shooters I know have started using FX pellets that are made by JSB. Go figure?
BB,
I’m probably a bit better at languages than I am at shooting 🙂
Playing lots of video games and being interested in computers from an early age probably helps (a lot of that stuff requires English). General practice, reading books and watching a ton of movies and TV series in English doesn’t hurt either…
Stephan
When Mrs. and FM did a river cruise in E Europe back in 2017, some of the tour guides and the locals in places we visited explained how they had learned to speak Spanish by watching those awful “Telenovelas,” essentially hokey, saccharine, romantic TV dramas that for some reason appeal to far too many, all over the world. Yechh! But if that method helps anyone learn another language, FM sez “go for it!”
Basil,
…it’d be quicker to train a monkey! 😉
BB
I think we can see why the SSP’s started to take over from the Springers in 10m shooting although an LG380 spring gun beat SSP’s in the 1984 women’s Olympic 10m. The LG 380 has a sled system like the FWB 300 but it is contained inside the receiver so the receiver does not move toward your face like the FWB300. My LG380 has no discernable muzzle flip while the FWB 600-602’s did which was remedied by an anti-flip device on the FWB 603, the last iteration of the FWB 600 series.
Brent
Brent,
An LG 380? Ooooh! Guest blog please! 😉
BB
Agreed!
Stephan
No my friend, you are not going to get away so easily. We all expected you to fulfill your promise about testing your scoped 300.
Excellent report and shooting. Two very nice rifles put to a well designed test. I do prefer the larger than life photos. They show more detail and less “wasted space”. I think that I would understand the report equally with either photo format (provided that all of the photos are consistently sized when we are trying to compare the shooting results). Oh, and I think that peep sights rule for this type of shooting!
Elmer,
Thanks for the report on the pix. I can only do it when the groups are very small, like today, so it will be on an as-possible basis.
BB
I found it interesting that the 300 moves when firing. I will have to delve into that one.
Roamin,
On the 300 the whole receiver is “loose” to move and slides back about 1/4″ when you break the shot. It takes a bit to get used to.
My 603 has an “inertia dampener” on the side of the receiver (that can be adjusted) to offset the weight of the pellet during the firing. I can’t see or feel any movement when break the shot on the 603, it’s dead calm with just a sharp “snap” of the discharge. It’s kinda weird that the sound and the hole in the paper are only indications that you fired a shot, almost feels unreal like it’s in a video game.
Feinwerkbau makes some seriously nice airguns.
Hank
RG,
I really like the FWB 300 series. The stock and the trigger assembly do not move. The barrel and compression chamber do. It has two springs which are counter wound to offset any twist when they “unwind” when the trigger is pulled.
It has a very nice trigger. The team that did the design work on this air rifle knew what they were doing. If you are even moderately intelligent and obtain one of these, do not disassemble the trigger assembly. You should not have to unless you get yours from a moron who thought they knew what they were doing.
I have rebuilt two of these things. I am absolutely agog at the engineering involved. This has to be my favorite air rifle. I would really like to see another of these come stay at RRHFWA.
RR, if you had one now, instead of feral soda cans, you would need to start hunting feral thimbles.
RG,
I would still be hunting feral soda cans. I would just be more selective as to where I hit them.
Here you go. A different colored dot each day.
Awesome!
I suspected you might get a laugh from that.
Vassili
My 300 Junior is expecting you to play with when you decide to visit us…
You have a deal, especially if I can figure out whether I can bring the Crosman 600 with me (without it getting confiscated or me arrested at Customs). Payment was finally received by the seller earlier this week and it is being shipped as I write this. I can’t wait for delivery!
Unfortunately I don’t see a deal here. It’s just going to be my pleasure. Please don’t get in any trouble for me. Still I will be waiting for your report on the 600.
Fortunately, I got a great deal on the 600. It probably will need resealed, and perhaps a guest blog will result from it (complete with lots of pictures). Then we’ll see.
OK. I hope you understand my bitterness about restrictions here. But I would like you to start searching if You can take this 300 Junior to the States…
OK. I’m sure it is possible. B.B.’s friend Carel often sells his finds on American Airgunner. We just need to learn the exact logistics and protocols. Email me directly and we can discuss. RGIAA (Roamin Greco’s Institute for Airgun Appreciation) is ready to help!
Let’s hope Ridgerunner will not read this conversation. Lol
He will. But he has owned FWBs before. I have not. On that basis alone, I think RGIAA should have priority over RRHWA. Plus, we are practically related!
Now you understand why I said no deal. We don’t deal with relatives. We just try to do our best.
BB,
Nice shooting with some fine airguns!
I might try that comparison just to see how I do – doubt I can match your groups though. Won’t be a fair test as my 300 is scoped. But then, as far as these Feinwerkbaus go, I think of them as “lasers” and assume any errors are my fault.
I’m good with the magnified, zoomed-in view as it shows the shape of the hole and the impacts more clearly. The target lines, coin and especially the pellet in the picture provides the reference to (mentally) scale the image to real life size. Truthfully, the size of screen on the device (phone, tablet, monitor) that you are viewing the image changes the relative size anyway, might as well see the details.
Hank
Hank,
Thanks for your comment on the pix. I think I will do it as often as possible.
BB,
In case of groups like this the macro picture is always wanted!
BB
Enlarged photos or not are fine.
Loved the test but surprised 300S groups were that large. My FWB300S shot one 5 shot group out of five 5 shot groups that measured the same size as the JSB Express pellet. Best I can figure, that group measured zero inches. I know it isn’t a 10 meter pellet.
BB and IT, I am able to edit using my android phone. My Apple Ipad won’t edit.
Deck
I am using a MacBook Air, and frequently the Edit function is not available immediately after the comment is posted but comes back if I refresh the page after a minute or so.
Enlarged picture or not? My opinion; it does not matter if the picture is the highest resolution possible given the limitations of WordPress.
Mike
Edit: Well this time it showed up immediately, go figure.
“We now know that the FWB 600 is the most accurate close-range .177 rifle I own. That will no doubt prove valuable in the future.”
I am guessing that you are qualifying that to not include PCPs and maybe not scopes either? I would be surprised if you weren’t. Great groups there! I have only bested that 0.043″ on 3 occasions all bench rested, 2 of them at 15meters, 10 shot groups but…with a scoped .22 PCP. Not exactly an apples to apples comparison there! (The 3rd time, I call possibly a fluke with a scoped .177 HW30s at 10 meters, although again, it was a 10 shot group.) I have never had the pleasure of shooting a FWB 300s or 600. I have sure drooled over them in the past though!
It’s an amazing feeling shooting groups like that, for me anyway. Walking on air for the rest of the day!
I do like the zoomed in photos. I usually read the blog on my desktop computer where it doesn’t make a big difference, but it helps for sure when reading on a phone.
Bob
I personally was so enamored by this comparison. I have owned a FWB 601 and a couple of FWB 300Ss. Although I can likely personally testify that the FWB 600 series is a more accurate air rifle, I would prefer to have a FWB 300 series again.
As far as the pictures are concerned, I prefer the enlarged photos myself. It helps these old, tired eyes to see better, thank you very much. As some may note, I usually trim and enlarge my photos as much as is possible.
As a little bit of historical note, a young woman from Cuba won the 2002 Pan Am Games with a FWB 601. That is all the details that I can pull out of my rememberer, so do not ask for more. Ya ain’t a gonna git it. Not from me anyway. 😉
RR,
Thanks for your comment on the pix.
BB
shootski and Stephan, if I have one Feinwerkbau rifle and then I get another, would that make two Feinwerkbaun? Feinwerkbauen?
If I have a tin of Meisterkugeln pellets, how many do I load into my Diana Model 36 breakbarrel springer at one time? One Meisterkugel?
Thanks.
Roamin Greco,
“…if I have one Feinwerkbau rifle and then I get another…”
Probably make you a glücklicher Mensch.
Also, make you walk around holding up your Thumb and Index finger all the time…LOL! Actually no need to change much but could change depending on what Tense ( or Dialect) you are speaking or writing in…it is COMPLEX auf Deutsch.
How many Meisterkugeln you load in your Diana Model 36 depends on how observant you are of the state of the Chamber…if you deep seat all bets are off! Do try to keep it to one (1) Meisterkugel at a time.
shootski
PS: thank goodness the EDIT function works for me because the grammarian program had me making changes it so helpfully provided!
AI just doesn’t do multilingual well thus far.
shootski,
No one has shown me that AI is good with American.
Roamin Greco,
I can’t disagree with shootski 🙂
But anyway:
“Feinwerkbau” is an artificial word, made from existing components which German is very good at (or notorious for).
Fein (fine) and werk (work/creation) won’t be too surprising for English speakers. “bau” can be a job description (building something) or a noun (something that has been built).
You also find the “bau” thing in “Maschinenbau” (literally “machine building”) which is the German word for “mechanical engineering”.
So “Feinwerkbau” could be literally translated to “creation of fine works” but “fine mechanical engineering (products)” might be closer to the actual meaning. It probably makes even more sense considering that they didn’t make guns in the very beginning but did precision manufacturing and development for other companies.
As for the plural… “Bau” can mean “building”. Then the plural would be “Baue”. For a product name, this sounds very strange. I would probably say “I have three Feinwerkbau” as in “Feinwerkbau-Gewehre” (= rifles, or -Pistolen, which is obvious). I suppose this is a bit of a matter of taste and others might disagree. I could see people say “Feinwerkbaus” but it’s not what I would use.
You are correct about the Meisterkugeln. “Kugeln” is the plural, “Kugel” would be the singular. They probably introduced the R10 so you don’t have to worry about this 🙂
Stephan
Wow! That’s a great lesson. Another reason I love this blog. One can learn almost anything in the comments.
Danke.
I’ve a book about Colditz written by the longest-serving German officer there and he mentions that they eventually found some guidance notes for escapers. Among the points it mentions are:
‘Passes recognized by police as forged because:
(a) they had seen this type of phoney pass before;
(b) there is no such thing as a Nebenbauamt (Branch Works Office) stamp;
(c) no such thing as Bauinspektor (Buildings Inspector)’
iain
P.S. – I know I mentioned the war, but I think I got away with it.
Lain,
Now do the silly walk! 😉
BB
B.B. amazing shooting with amazing rifles by an amazing shooter. You still got it.
I am agnostic on the zoom in. But it does save me the herculean effort of using two fingers on my phone to zoom in myself. Thanks.
Roamin,
Thanks for the comment on the pix — sort of. 😉
BB
BB,
The very clear pictures of the group, plus pellet, plus coin is a great way to contrast group sizes. It transfers the information in a very concise way. Keep up the good work.
The only other match rifle that came to my mind was the Diana 75. As I remember, it wasn’t quite as accurate as these two. Was there a problem with it?
Bill
Bill,
Thanks for the info on the pix. The Diana 75 was not capable of shooting a pellet out of the barrel. It’s being looked at.
BB
BB,
Great groups! I couldn’t replicate those without a scope, and even then . . .
As for the pictures, I use a PC to read the blog so I do not have a strong preference, with a very slight nod to the enlarged ones. I would suggest to do whatever is easier for you. That said, including the pellet next to the groups is very useful for me, more so than the (unusual) coins.
Henry
Henry,
Thanks for your take on the Pix.
BB
Fortuitous timing on this post for me, just watched a 300S go on a local auction site for $305. I bid up to $300, but just couldn’t go any farther than that although I’m sure the gun was worth it. Hope it went to a good home.
Aaron
Keep your eyes open and bide your time. I see them from time to time as well. It is great when they are local so you can save on shipping.
I had both. got the 600 after owning the 300. figured the 600 would be more accurate. shot hundreds of pellets thru both and the 600 could not outshoot the 300 amazing for a spring gun. I sold the 600 cause I was going to sell one of them after the test
BB, Guys,
Thank you for one of my favorite sort of your reports – comparing match equipment.
I think the 300S shot from the vice would have a very small group. Unfortunately it is a springer and its system function will affect the accuracy of any shooter. It is fine for this equipment – but the latest solutions brought it so far… When imagine when it was developed and how it still works – amazing. I wonder if… my newest babe will last like 300S.
I think all the time to find some time and motivation to do the proper chrony and bench test of my new babe FWB800 clasic. The idea is to do the same comparison – but this time with the newest level system (which is PCP). I don’t think I will get better result than BB with the 600 model. But… need to try it first to know.
I need some motivation to do that, so… do not hesitate to push me! (like hell)
For Tomek. Nudge, nudge.
If BB is watching,, I really like the close ups for the really small groups.
Ed
Ed,
BB always watches.
BB
tomek,
You must get to it and SOON!
Nietzsche also mentioned a fifth and sixth part of his Zarathustra and leading to plotting Zarathustra’s death, “or else he will give me no peace”.
You must get this done or it will give you NO REST!
Also sprach Zarathustra.
No Rest, No Rest, No Rest…usw.
shootski
shootski,
My Lord — it’s full of stars!
BB
B.B.,
I KNOW!
shootski
tomek,
But then…
Nietzsche wrote: “The question which thou wilt have to answer before every deed that thou doest: ‘is this such a deed as I am prepared to perform an incalculable number of times?’ is the best ballast.”
NOT for TRUE Shootists! That one is easily done… Zarathustra the Shooter…
shootski
Shootski,
Boooooaahhhh, I asked for this! 🙂 😛
Glad I’m not the only one who likes old Honda manuals. Have to remember to adjust them vavles
READERSHIP,
KILLER DEALS ON LabRADARs!
They have limited quantities of V1 DEMO Units for US $399.00
They also have NIB V1 units for a little more but still $150.00 cheaper than MSRP
Of course this is because they have the small Lab RADAR DOPPLER units in stock now; same capability with tennis ball size form factor.
Unfortunately direct sales are only to Canada, New Zealand, and USA for these FULL/low POWER switchable UNITS.
The rest of the World gets low power only… sadly.
Nothing compares (even close) for consumer doppler or other technology chronographs to this companies product.
shootski
PS: Tom the airgun trigger brackets are on sale as well!
Both the 300 and 601 are great rifles. I own a 601. I still have it. I started shooting a postal match with it and ended up buying a Pardini 10M PCP rifle because I got tired of cocking the 601. That said I always felt I shot the 601 better. That deep, heavy, laminate stock on the 601 just felt right. If anyone wants a lefthand 601 let me know as I don’t need two 10M rifles.
B.B.
You are the winner! Great shooting by the godfather.
-Y
BB,
comparing your 600 result to this orignal grouping tested by Feinwerkbau on my 800 makes it clear, you went to the very end of what is possible!
Any chance of having group sizes in metric for us European types?
I’m ok with inches, but when you get into decimals of inches it gets really confusing
Ade,
I have been doing that but I skipped it for this report. Here’s a conversion program everyone needs:
https://www.unitconverters.net/weight-and-mass-converter.html
BB