Today Tyler Patner of Pyramyd AIR tells us about Ton Jones’ world record airgun shot that he witnessed. Before we begin, a word from me. You have already read about and seen this shot. Today Tyler tells us what went on behind the curtain, which is a different story with the same happy ending.
If you’d like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me at blogger@pyramydair.com.
Take it away, Tyler
Witnessing a world record
by Tyler Patner
In May of 2023, my good friend Ton Jones called with a proposition. He asked if Pyramyd AIR would be interested in partnering with Airforce Airguns to present modern airguns to the writers and media present at the Lucid Optics Ballistic Summit.
Ton Jones setup for 2058-yard airgun shot at the NRA Whittington Center.
The event is held at the Whittington Center in New Mexico, which is a massive shooting facility. After learning more about the summit from Ton, I ran the idea up the flagpole and was given the green light to attend. Although I was there to talk up airguns, I was also asked to help undertake something that I thought was a near impossibility. Ton wanted to attempt to make a World Record shot with a Texan.
I later learned later that Ton had attempted to go down the Guiness path, but was denied at every turn. Despite them awarding the record to Chris Turek (UpNorthAirgunner on Youtube) a few years prior, it seemed that the organization had no interest in continuing to track shooting records of any kind. But for Ton, this only added fuel to the fire. What better place and time to attempt such a record than with a bunch of media and industry professionals on hand to witness it, right?
The goal was to stretch a .308 Texan out to 1450 yards, and if we made contact, see how much further it could go. Ton had managed to hit 1123 yards with a .457 Texan the year prior, so 1450 actually seemed quite reasonable in my mind. Now, the gun was certainly optimized for long range to the best of our ability, but in typical Ton fashion, not 100% there on our arrival to the event. More on that in a minute, but first here are the important things to note:
1. This was a .308 Texan, but fitted with a carbon fiber bottle, allowing it to run hotter than with a standard aluminum bottle, thanks to the higher fill pressure of 3,625 psi.
2. The barrel was custom made by Shaw Barrels with a 1:14 twist rate and length of 36”. I understand this is the same twist rate as a factory .308 Texan barrel, but it’s slightly longer and the muzzle is threaded.
3. Ton fitted an adjustable droop compensating rail to the rifle, capable of up to 120 MOA of compensation (and he needed every bit of it!).
4. Ton did not chronograph the rifle before we left for the event, nor did we chronograph the rifle at the event. He shot 155 grain Mr. Hollowpoint solid spitzer slugs.
5. He did not have an external regulator to tether a tank to the rifle, so Ton had to fill the rifle to the same pressure for each shot manually.
We spent most of the first day at the range, sighting in a number of RAW rifles at 100 yards that the media would get to shoot later that day. They were going to compete in a mini-100 yard BR competition against Ton. To make that long story short, no one came close to topping Ton’s score. Interestingly, of all of the competitive events that took place for the media over the weekend, Ton was the only Pro shooter that didn’t get beat at his own event. This was all held at the Whittington Center’s STAR range, where there are targets out to 600 yards. So Ton and I spent some time shooting .25 cal pellets out to about 400 yards and hitting steel with child-like excitement before we brought out the big gun.
At this point, the adjustable droop rail on the Texan was set with around 50 MOA of adjustment, and we dialed the gun in at 100 yards. We had a Lucid Optics MLX 4.5-18x scope mounted. Once doped in at 100, we stretched to 400 and quickly found our splash on the rocky hillside and walked the gun in until we finally heard that magical ring that lead hitting steel often produces. Then we stretched to 600 yards. The 600 yard steel has a lot of trees beneath it, so it took us a little bit of time to get the hold right and elevation dialed into the optic, but finally we found ourselves in the ballpark. At this point, the internal travel on the scope was maxed out and if memory serves, there was a 6 MIL hold on top of that to connect at 600. Of course, it was apparent that we needed to adjust the drooper base and max it out before we went out to 1123 yards to go after the white buffalo. So that evening, the adjustment was made, knowing we would have to restart the sight-in process somewhat from scratch (this is where my comment about the gun not being 100% there comes in).
This seems like a good opportunity to pause and share a few thoughts on things that could have been done differently to make our lives easier when we undertook this (aside from chronographing the gun, of course).
1. A prism – If you’re unfamiliar with a prism device, it’s an optical device that bends light at a precise angle to allow the user more elevation adjustment. Umarex makes a few under their Axeon brand called the Second Zero, and a few other companies do as well. The biggest name in this space is Tacom HQ. In a situation where you know you’re going to run out of elevation adjustment, every bit of additional elevation compensation helps.
2. A lighter projectile – Ton chose the 155 grain Mr. Hollowpoint because it’s what stabilized best out of the 1:14 twist barrel he had. I think we both would’ve preferred a lighter, faster projectile.
3. A faster twist barrel – This should allow for better stabilization of lighter weight slugs.
After the day’s events had run on Saturday evening, we made our way to the silhouette range, where the white buffalo resides. Because it’s a silhouette range, there were plenty of targets and flat land to help us dope in the Texan. Because of the additional droop introduced, we gained back A LOT of elevation adjustment. Ton took aim at the 547-yard Rams, splashing well in front of them. In just a few shots, he was able to get sighted in again. Once re-zeroed at 547, Ton took it out to 1123, quickly figuring out the additional elevation adjustment needed (forgive me, I don’t remember what the eventual firing solution was). In just four shots, he was able to make contact with the White Buffalo, striking the target in the neck.
As a funny side note, Jason Wilson, owner of Lucid Optics, and I made our guesses at the additional hold it would target to get to 2000+ yards. At this point, we were discussing pure holdover as the elevation would need to be maxed out. We guessed an additional 16-20 MILs would be needed to get from the roughly 1400 yard zero that was now built into the set up with the scope elevation maxed, to the 2058 yard target. We were both wrong — wayyyy wrong. And it’s also funny to note that because the gun hadn’t been chronographed, we didn’t know the actual zero of the setup was near 1400 yards until AFTER we all returned home and Ton chronographed the gun. Keep in mind, 1 MIL is 3.6” at 100 yards, so 36” at 1000 yards and 72” at 2000 yards. Meaning 20 MILs would be an additional 120 feet (1440”) of holdover. Remember that for later.
We were up early the next morning to try and get up the ELR (Extreme Long Range) Range before the wind got too crazy, and upon arrival, conditions were about as still as could be expected. As we started to unload the truck with all of the gear, Ton made the executive decision to skip the 1450 yard target and jump straight to 2058. I’d tell you that the decision raised my eyebrows, but it’s Ton, so it was not totally unexpected. Once Ton got squared away on the bench, spotters were in position and the target distance had been ranged and verified from the bench, everyone settled in with cameras at the ready. I should note at this point that the target locations and ranges (out to 4000+ yards) are confirmed by the Whittington Center but can vary by a few yards based on your exact location on the firing line and 2058 yards was confirmed by at least two rangefinders and is within a few yards of what Whittington told us. It’s important also to know that the ELR range is around 7000-7500 ft of elevation.
The reason the elevation is important is because it 100% had an impact on the velocity of that 155 grain projectile. After we were all safely back home, Ton was able to chronograph the rifle in Fort Worth, Texas (roughly 540 ft above sea level). His readings at the full 3,625 psi were right at 1000 FPS. Now, I can only estimate, but I suspect that the gun was shooting closer to 1080 FPS at the elevation of the ELR range. I can be heard in a video or two saying that I believed the gun was somewhere in the 900 fps range, and that was my original thought based on what I knew about the platform. But I wasn’t taking into account the higher bottle pressure of the carbon tank or the elevation change. Next time (if there is a next time) we will be better prepared on that front, as I myself am truly curious to know what the exact figures were.
I will let the video speak for itself in terms of what happened once Ton started shooting. If you want to see just the 2058 yard shots, skip to around the 5:30 mark.
Jason Wilson and I were able to get a rough idea of how much drop was involved in totality, because Ton doesn’t do math. And this is based upon where Ton was holding, which was pointing up in the sky with only the very top of the treeline behind the target in the bottom third of his scope field of view. Since the scope was in MIL, I will convert everything to MILs for the sake of simplicity. And remember, 1 MIL is 72” at 2000 yards.
The 120 MOA base is about 34 MILs of compensation, there was another 30 MILs of elevation adjustment in the Lucid Optics MLX scope itself, and based on the closest estimate we could make after the shot based on how far Ton was holding over, it’s roughly 66 MILs more of hold. In total 130 MILs is 9,360 inches or 780 feet or 260 yards or total drop. Just to benchmark that for you, the Great Pyramid of Giza is 451 feet tall today.
Some individuals have criticized Ton for the lack of “confirmation” of the impact on the 3×3’ steel and that’s fair. But in our defense, there is no traversable path to these target locations by truck that I am aware of. They either repaint them with a side-by-side type of vehicle, or on horse-back because there aren’t paths or trails to the various locations.
The 3-foot by 3-foot steel target at 2,058 yards.
Next time around, I will gladly haul myself out to the target (probably a good 25-30 minute hike) and make sure we get a good picture. But with that said, there were no less than 10 individuals that were able to confirm the mark on steel with the multiple spotting scopes. We could have been considerably better prepared, in more ways than one, but that wouldn’t be in Ton’s nature. If there is a next time, I’ll be sure there is more due diligence put in beforehand and documented for all of you to see.
This was a truly incredible feat to witness. While it is completely impractical and probably not easily repeatable, it’s still beyond epic. The scary part that I will let you all in on now, Ton is already planning and plotting to go farther. I will leave it up to him to figure out the how, where, and what but I fully intend to be there when it happens. I mentioned it before, but going into this, I really didn’t have high expectations. Between the general lack of preparedness and the unpredictability of mother nature, it just seemed like a pipe dream. But Ton is a master of chaos and just made it happen.
Well done my friend, it was an absolute pleasure to witness….the 11-hour car ride on the other hand…less of a pleasure. Though I would definitely do it all over again. And who knows, maybe this is the beginning of some new airgun ELR event…we shall see.
Tyler,
That’s a great and very interesting write up by you, and a great feat of shooting by Ton!
As for this:
“…it seemed that the organization had no interest in continuing to track shooting records of any kind.”
Yes, sadly, that is true; as outlined in this article, https://bobmunden.com/about/records-amazing-feats/ ,
The sad thing is noted right at the end:
A Note From Bob About The Guinness Book of Records
“In 1981, the year most shooting records disappeared from the Guinness Book, I called David Boehm of the Sterling Publishing Company and asked why. He told me that there is a committee that approves books to be used in school libraries across the nation. The committee informed Mr. Boehm that it would only approve the Guinness Book for continued use as a reference book in school libraries if gun records were removed. To protect the Guinness Book from a black list, that’s what the publishing company felt it had to do. If you look at recent editions of the Guinness Book of World Records, you will notice that most gun records by shooters using real firearms (not gimmicked with things like light-weight aluminum barrels,) are no longer listed, including those set by the famous Annie Oakley, Ed McGivern, Tom Frye and myself. It is a shame that a small group of people on that education committee, people who probably grew up in cities away from the shooting sports millions of Americans and citizens of many other nations appreciate and enjoy, can have the power to effectively erase history.”
— Bob Munden
How sad! The “Guinness Book of World Records” crew should hang their heads in shame for being so spineless as to let a major piece of American history and culture be erased! Just my 2 cents.
Yet that was a great job by you on the report.
Blessings to you,
dave
thedavemyster,
Sterling Publishing House made the decision based on the current education committee’s ruling. They chose to publish a version that can be allowed in school libraries. If they did not bow to the committee then they would be limited in their sales. Who knows? Maybe the pendulum will swing the other way again and the shooting sports become something socially acceptable and popular.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
what a bunch of nonsense.
Are they going to ban all racing and car-related records as well because cars can be used to run over people?
My favourite question is “Is that a ‘real’ rifle, pistol… etc.?”, the definition of “real” usually being that it’s a firearm or lethal. Is a $ 3000 match airgun less “real” than a $ 300 firearm? Or is it maybe possible that guns have different uses?
Stephan
Stephan,
It just illustrates that the weenies have been trying to ban firearms over here for a long time. If they should happen to succeed, then they will go after knives, cars, etcetera. I hear vans and trucks are popular weapons in Europe and Canada.
RR
Yes, you have a point about trucks used by terrorists. This practice became more and more popular after that tragedy in Oklahoma, USA…
I suppose there should be strict background check in order to get a driving license? And certainly before getting a flight license, especially if the trainee doesn’t care about landing procedures.
In every state there is a very strict background check to get a driver’s license, and the database for them and traffic violations is nationwide. Same for pilot licenses.
Michael,
None of the 9-11 hijackers actually had pilot licences of any kind.
Sorry if this bursts anyone’s security bubble:
Sadly Background Checks are a stop gap at best and easily subverted.
Most all Nations remain just as vulnerable to Terrorists today as they were on 9-10!
Intelligence Services no longer get many of the Best and the Brightest; if they ever did.
shootski
shootski,
I have no idea about officer standards today — you might be right. US intelligence agencies and sub-agencies in decades past, however, had the highest standards in the world, I can assure you.
Michael,
Not anymore. Many of the “blue” states allow illegal aliens to have drivers’ licenses.
RidgeRunner,
I think I am somewhat of a moderate on this issue, at least in US terms.
The stupid thing in Germany is that politicians often go for “feel good” legislation that doesn’t improve safety and just needlessly limits and harasses law-abiding citizens.
There is gun violence (with illegal guns, of course), so we need to control crossbows and ban knives (who’s going to rob a gas station with a crossbow when an illegal firearm is probably not *that* hard to come by?). Once they have banned all pocket knives, what will they think of next? Forks, screwdrivers, sharpened spoons?
On the other hand there are countries where millions of people have easy access to firearms (like Austria or Switzerland) and there are close to zero shootings there. It can’t be just the guns.
I have actually joined the German association of gunsmiths (VdB) to help fight this nonsense that accomplishes nothing and just costs money and infringes on our civil rights. It costs a few Euros a month, but I think it’s worth it.
When the stupid changes to weapon laws (like the crossbow thing among others) were supposed to enter into a force this year, you could take part in a campaign that sent letters to the ministries involved. Actual letters on paper. All at once. It was free for VdB members and others could participate for a fee.
I think each ministry was sent between 100.000 to 200.000 letters and the whole thing seems to be dead for now. It must have been fun for them 🙂
Stephan
“Actual letters on paper.”
Stephan, good stuff; I like it! 🙂
Stephan
Forks, screwdriver, spoons and most importantly pencils! Who knows, they are a fearsome weapon. Either to stub someone in the eye or, much worse, write a letter to an oplophobic state…
Stephan,
Until some good sense enters whoever is in leadership, that is how the world around us is shaping. Unfortunately the weenies outnumber us and are the predominant representatives in all governments.
Siraniko
What FM would suggest is for Germans to establish your equivalent of our National Rifle Association.
Politicians should be required to be licensed before they’re allowed to practice politics; part of the licensing process should include a very thorough psychiatric evaluation by a competent, neutral examiner. And an extensive criminal background check, of course.
RR
The problem is not firearms, it is mass murder!
I know of no responsible gun owner who needs more than a 12 round magazine.
Assault weapons sole purpose is to kill people! They are lousy hunting rifles and not even very accurate.
For home protection, get a decent dog. For protection when on the go, do as B.B. does. And make sure you practice at least once a month.
Rant over…
-Yogi
P.S. I grew up in DC and knew Jim Brady. There is NOTHING wrong with the Bill that bares his name. Since 1999, the coup in Cincinnati, the NRA has lost it way…
Sorry, rant was not over.
RR
When were you last in Germany? When I was there you could easily buy switch blades. Yes, real Italian stelletos, out the side. Even, out the front ones. I used to buy dozens and bring them back as presents.
-Y
Yogi,
You are not seeing the forest for the trees. It is not the large capacity magazines or the AR type rifles. “They” wish to totally disarm us. Where do we make them stop. If we were in Europe, they would take away your sproinger collection and imprison you because of the power levels. Many of the knives we have would be illegal.
Criminals are not concerned with laws. Even in Europe, true assault weapons can be had and are often used by criminals. They do not care what the law is. As I have pointed out, many have been killed in other countries where guns have been outlawed. Trucks, vans, etcetera have been used. One who does not care about the law will find a way.
Uncle Joe is wrong when he says there is not point to us owning ARs as he is in command of F-16s. Who is flying that F-16? Is he/she going to strafe and bomb his/her own family?
“Maybe the pendulum will swing the other way again and the shooting sports become something socially acceptable and popular.”
Siraniko, yes, I certainly hope that is the case! 😉
What FM believes is committees need banning. “Who shall guard the guardians themselves?,” questioned wise ancient philosophers, to which we should reply, “we the people who value our God-given freedom to choose.”
Well book banning is still all the rage!
Why should shooting records be an exception?
Blessing to you Dave,
-Yogi
Thanks, Yogi, and to you as well. 🙂
To some people books and ideas are the most dangerous things in the world, hence, they ban them.
Michael, yes, that’s true, and quite sad; that was my point.
Guinness’ publisher saw the ban threat and possible loss of dollars.
But instead of standing up to the threat, they knuckled under.
So, now a guy who did this…
“Bob [Munden] holds 18 unbroken World Records in Fast Draw competition that he set with a real, stock-weight, Colt .45 single-action revolver.”
…gets removed from one of our major history books [Guiness Book of World Records].
In my book, that’s just not cool.
Peace & Blessings,
dave
I think that you should be awarded that record. Still in your heart, you know you put in the work, and what an incredible achievement. I personally am not a fan of Upnorthairgunner. He seems to be quite full of himself this is just what I have noticed. You however seem to be a very humble and enthusiastic person for the sport. Keep up the amazing things your doing.
I think at that distance, just use a 60mm mortar.
So, 1,000+ yard optimized scopes coming soon to PA?;)
OP,
I seriously doubt PA will carry such scopes. Those things would have to be VERY expensive. Now those companies out west might. They like overly expensive stuff.
Now as for the mortar, I like that idea. An 81mm or 120mm would be better though, IMMHO.
RidgeRunner,
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/meopta-optika6-5-30×56-ed-ffp-rifle-scope-illuminated-mrad-mil-mil?a=9363
Just another one P AIR currently stocks as an example that could might do the job.
shootski
shootski,
I see no one has bragged about owning one yet. Perhaps yourself?
RidgeRunner,
Hank has a pretty nice Element scope on top of his FX Panthera and a few nice pieces of glass on his other rifles as wll.
Yes i have the linked scope on my DAQ .308 and the 5 power “sees” really well at night in the urban/suburban light pollution. On a Full Moon it is possible to determine most all the colors! On 30 power it is still posible to see the hair and shoulder muscles outline in those lighting conditions on a deer for exact placement.
I got mine on a really good deal from my local MCX gun counter.
shootski
shootski,
Unfortunately, FX airguns and Element optics are WAAAAAY beyond affordable for myself. Very likely, there will be no more airguns added to my “collection” as I will likely be retiring soon. If I am most fortunate, I will still be able to purchase a few accessories and ammo.
OhioPlinker,
Already there!
Just one example of a number of scopes able to do 1,000 or more easily:
https://www.pyramydair.com/product/element-optics-theos-6-36×56-ffp-apr-2d-mrad-34mm-tube?a=12917
shootski
Thanks Tyler for the slightly different perspective on that shot.
I for one do understand Ton’s chaotic nature as I have one myself. Record keeping is for someone like you. I just do. Organization? Hah!
As for Guinness, there is a decent beer by that name. As for the book, not so much. Seriously, who cares whom has the longest fingernails?
Just in case anyone should find it of interest, I and my “grandsons” enjoyed ourselves at the 9th Annual North Carolina Airgun Show. We also met quite a few “famous” airgunners and even managed to connect up with some of the folks from here.
After a little wheeling and dealing, I even managed to come home with a Benji Armada.
The kids did really well. They were allowed to shoot quite a few different airguns at the range outside.
FM is looking forward to “playing” with his newest piece of air power – and he thanks you for that! 😉
FM,
The iguanas had best beware. 😉 Perhaps I should make a road trip down there and pop a few with my “new” Armada.
Thank you Tyler for a very interesting report. I like your cold point of view also on things that could be prepared more or in a different way. I think this a bit of chaotic approach was even more dramatic and gave at the end just higher happiness output 🙂
To be honest, even if you had a HD camera 10feet away from target there will be always people telling it was fake or something. I like to celebrate events like this and the more details – I’m more happy to read about it!
I’m shocked about the “Guinness Book of World Records”. I would be not surprised at all about it in Germany…
Here’s something you don’t see everyday.
Cool looking air gun.
https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/1014266687
Roamin,
These used to show up at the airgun shows all the time. They look cool, but as CO2 guns they are weak and finicky. You might get 30 foot-pounds from a .22. And the triggers? Let’s just say theb need work.
BB
Tyler
Very nice and down to earth. We must ask Tom to take more days off so you can be a guest of honor like all the other esteemed guests.
I really liked today’s blog just like the previous one about Ton’s great feat.
If only there was no comparison to Billy Dixon’s achievement…
Thanks for the write-up Tyler!
Considering the technical challenges, Tons record is impressive, no doubt!
As a more practical (plinking, pesting, hunting) challenge for all people, it would be interesting to see how far a shooter could hit a 1 inch spinner, shooting off hand, with a factory stock (tuned but unmodified) airgun 5 times consecutively with only 5 pellets (no sighters).
Guess that there would have to be categories for different airguns, iron sights and scopes.
That was the skill testing competition that we had as kids.
To eliminate any advantages there were no accessories or special equipment – we all shot the same pellet gun with pellets straight from the same tin.
Cheers!
Hank
Vana2,
That is way smaller than an egg, NRA 50′ Official Target, or BIATHLON standing target!
With the typical tested airgun (BENCHED) by Tom precision being WELL over 2 MOA my math says you need to be inside the barn to have a chance of hitting any of the barn…LOL! Oh! you said a 1″ spinner FIVE TIMES in-a-row with NO sighters…how close?
Well 20′ looks good place to start for me; especially without a shooting sling.
shootski
PS: can i use my .58 caliber Short Rifle it will increase my odds significantly!
Shootski,
Yeah, start close – like 5 feet close – to guarantee hits (always wear shooting glasses!) and then move back a step at a time until you can’t do 5 for 5. That’s your “start to practice distance”. 😉
I’ve seen so many misses at less than near-zero distances because people don’t practice enough at close range to know the hold-over on a rabbit right at their feet.
Shooting off hand is a real humbling experience and sometimes a little humility is a good thing 🙂
Cheers!
Hank
Now that’s a series of many blogs for BB.
I wish he could seriously do it. A decently powered springer with iron sights. A medium powered pcp with a lower magnification scope and finally a higher power but affordable pcp with an equal level higher magnification scope. And not off handed, he is not Kirsten… Just using a monopod.
How about it Tom?
Bill or Hank,
How about a guest blog along those lines? 😉
BB
Tom
I would love to do that for you but unfortunately where I live access to that kind of long range is, hmm not that easy.
And I could provide only the first two platforms. The above are anyway two of the reasons I am envious of your country.
Bill,
You don’t have 33′ or 10 meters?
shootski
Shootski
I have indeed the 10m range, iyn my backyard actually. But instead of downsizing the targets and using my average skills I find it appropriate for BB, or anyone with the whole “package” that is, to conduct such a serious test.
Bill,
The thing about the competition that I suggest (5 consecutive hits on a 1 inch spinner shot off hand) is that it’s not to test the airgun, it’s to challenge the shooter to see what their maximum effective range is for (typical) pesting and small game (squirrels and rabbits) hunting.
For pesting and hunting you don’t get sighters and have to make the first shot count. For this challenge, 5 consecutive hits proves that it’s skill, not a lucky hit.
Paper targets show the POI which helps with practice. The challenge should be shot with a spinner.
For those who like that kinda thing it’s easy to set up a competition to see who has the longest off hand range.
Myself, I’m not the competitive type so I shoot and note my distances for my own reference.
Interestingly, any weapon that’s reasonably accurate can be used because without benches and bipods and rests, it’s the shooter’s skill that is the determining factor.
Rather than a blog on the challenge, I’d suggest that the readership take the challenge, shoot some spinners off hand and post their airgun and distance.
Fun stuff!
Hank
Hank
I wholeheartedly agree with your points. I just proposed the monopod, having actually a shooting stick in my mind. Bad use of English! The stick is, or can be, a simple equipment among hunters, I believe. It was at least when the long range buffalo hunting/massacre took place.
Tyler,
Like you, I would like to have seen more data and predictions beforehand along with some method like the prism optic so that the shooter could aim at the topic. But, I do also wonder if all the preparations and equipment might not have made things any easier. Sometimes when you are most prepared there is just more to go wrong.
David Enoch
David Enoch,
DITTOS!
shootski
That’s a fair thought. Had we not been able to see splash on the first shot through one of the spotting scopes, that’s where data would’ve made things A LOT easier. But we got a little lucky…and I think luck is always going to play a part in this type of shooting situation.
Here’s a weird off topic question, and forgive my ignorance, but here goes.
I recall when B.B. blogged about reclaiming lead from pellets, how he made a point to warn his audience to do the melting and casting outside so as not to breathe any fumes from the melting lead. So I’m wondering if one used a stack of firewood as a backstop, and a few pellets found their way into the wood, would (should) one avoid burning the wood in the fireplace inside the house? I just got done stacking up wood from about 5 trees we cut down in my back yard, and I was thinking that it would make a great backstop, but then if I burn any logs with pellets in them will I be poisoning my family? If so, I’ll just buy a couple of sheets of 1″ plywood to put in front of the pile.
Roamin,
Please count the number of pellets that are in the woodpile. Otherwise, take precautions.
BB
Thanks, B.B. I think I get your meaning. If I can’t count the pellets anymore, then I should take precautions. Hopefully, the rubber mulch trap I will set up for outdoor use will catch most if not all, and the secondary backstop will catch the rest. Perhaps I WILL be able to count the pellets that hit the woodpile.
Roamin Greco,
As Tom says!
Also always depends on the power remaining at the backstops for SAFETY as well as not creating an unsellable property or extensive and expensive remediation project.
The wood pile could make an acceptable tertiary backstop. But the rubber mulch/metal backstop should be the primary and the plywood or a suspended dense carpet would be a great secondary backstop.
Sticky Sheets as used on some Shooting Range walking areas are a good idea in front of your backstop/target both outside and inside.
Collecting ALL the Lead (Pb) and recycling or proper disposal is a vital consideration.
shootski
Thank you, I agree!
Shootski, are you referring to something like this?
https://shop.actiontarget.com/pc_product_detail.asp?key=08F3B18CD14B4614A6BF6113A3E35197
Roamin Greco,
Exactly.
You could also look here for different sizes and also in white to make it easier to see the fragments:
https://www.plasticover.com/floor-protection-sticky-mats/
shootski
Thanks, again, shootski.
Roaming,
A couple of pellets burned in the woodstove will probably not be a problem as the fumes will go up the chimney with the smoke. Burning a backstop full of lead would not be a good idea though.
I use the end-grain of soft wood logs (spruce, pine, cedar) to catch pellets and then reclaim the lead for slingshot pellets, jigs and sinkers.
Here’s a target butt-log that I split open to show you how the lead clumps together. I usually cut the first 3-4inches off the log to make splitting out the spent pellets easier. Axe, wedge, chisel, hammer, screwdriver, froe all work well to free the clumps (presuming you shoot tight groups 😉 ) of lead.
Hank
Thanks. Cool clumps.
Only one image at a time…
Here’s the target backstop I use.
And all my spinners as well. The logs keep most of the lead out of the environment.
Vana2,
Having seen your backstop butts in previous blogs i wondered how you dealt with the embedded Lead (Pb)
Thanks for the clear explanation of how you do it.
I don’t own a single spinner but i have something that might work: https://www.pyramydair.com/product/air-venturi-biathlon-airgun-target?a=5770
Hank I had to! LOL ;^)
The holes are 1.1″ diameter so they should be comparable to a 1″ spinner and best of all there are 5 resettable targets in a row! Only with my low power .177 airguns. I think i will start with my daughter’s Marksman 1790 Biathlon Trainer…a break barrel Spring Piston that is well under the maximum 12FPS recommended for this target.
shootski
Tyler,
Thank you for the informative Guest Blog.
You filled in many of my questions in the earlier blog and covered the why on the other information i wondered about not being covered.
Before anyone reading this REPLY thinks that is a criticism of Ton or you rest assured it isn’t.
Although i can do all the math pre-computations for ELR and beyond targeting the reality is that a very good Spotter is still worth every last computation that can be done. After some experience Ton’s approach makes infinite sense both in modern times as well as when the great historical shooters are researched for just how they did it.
I have a few items for you and Ton to look at:
https://www.eratac.de/en/
Don’t have one yet but they look promising; unlike the Cold Shot MOAB elevation adjusting bases that gave no assurance of repeatability.
Tyler why do want to do the hike to the Target? Get a drone with video camera to do the job for you and help the Spotter as well! Some can also be used to read the wind (Track/Cross Track) from the shooting point to the target.
Just had an aha moment! If you had a smoke unit mounted on a drone it could visually show the persistent winds and turbulence.
thank you again!
shootski
Absolutely, a good spotter is a HUGE benefit in this situation and Jason Wilson from Lucid Optics did a great job spotting for Ton.
As far as adjustable mounts go, those do look promising. But still not enough for what we were doing. That on top of the MOA base, would’ve definitely been helpful.
I want to hike to the target to get a picture with it….unless the drone can fly Ton out there of course lol. And that’s a great idea on the smoke part! Can’t believe no one is using this already for ELR shooting.
Tyler@PA,
Have you seen some of our drones…you and Ton would be easy!
IF the MOAB bases had functioned better they had a 150 and a 300 that looked great but…. I tried to use the 150 MOA MOAB base shooting out to 750-1,000 yards with the .308 DAQ 1:10 but it just wasn’t working.
Yes, smoke seems like it needs to be tried. Need to find a right sized smoke generator.
Seems the RC folks have some…need to talk to a riend who flies RC airplanes to get some reliable information.
https://www.towerhobbies.com/product/sky-writer-smoke-pump-system-6v/SUL753.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwvrOpBhBdEiwAR58-3C31rrBiCpzmrmkQJkPR5Mg8ju9WnkUxYE6tLMZrZoI7Dln-fcX55xoCjtMQAvD_BwE
shootski
To my mind, the big accomplishment is creating and setting up an airgun capable of shooting that far with consistent accuracy, not luck. This was a long-range challenge for an airgun.
A while back I asked, “At what point does the shooters skill become irrelevant?” In the extreme, when the airgun is setup with accessories to hit the target by simply tapping on his phone to fire it.
With that in mind, at what point do we accept the shooters skill to be the reason the target was hit?
In other words, some sort of classification needs to be defined as to the way the rifle was shot and what was used to assist the shooter to hit the target.
Standing upright with open sights would obviously be a shot fully credited to the shooter’s skill. (Assuming the sights are accurate enough)
Adding an accurate scope to be able to actually see the target at long range is understandable, but only if it fits a predetermined size after magnification to make it fit a regulation.
No doubt overcoming everything that could affect the pellets’ ability to reach out that far and hit a target as well as modifying the airgun to do so is an outstanding world class accomplishment in itself and that is all to the credit of the shooter in my mind. Well done, Ton!
Thank you, Tyler, for the info on it.