The HW 50S breakbarrel from Weihrauch.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
This report covers:
- Disgust
- The kit
- Disassembly
- Trigger out
- Stop here!
- Job done
- Cocking effort
- Summary
Today I install a Vortek HW50-PG4-Steel (7.5 ft. pound/10 Joule) Tune Kit in my .177-caliber HW-50S air rifle. If you remember, back in December of 2021 I installed a ProGuide4 Steel High Output kit in this rifle. It produced over 16 foot-pounds of energy with a Falcon pellet, but the cocking effort was raised from a factory 32 pounds to 37 pounds of force. That is way too much for a light rifle like this 50. In fact, after testing it here is what I said,
“Where does this leave us? Well, this HW 50S is shooting with far more power than I need. And it cocks with greater effort than I want to apply. At this point I wish I had bought the lower-powered kit instead of the SHO. Maybe with time the cocking effort will change.”
“The shot cycle is quite smooth, but quick. The forward jolt is still there but it’s greatly reduced.”
Disgust
I quit shooting the HW 50S after that experience because it was too much work for too little return. And then when my HW-30S turned out so nice following a similar Vortek tune I figured I needed to try the lower-powered kit in the 50S. That thought was reinforced when reader RidgeRunner’s Diana 34 turned out so well with a lower-powered PG4 Steel kit installed. Oh boy, here we go!
The kit
The kit I received from Vortek looks like the one I’m replacing. The only difference is the spring wire is 0.113-inches in diameter instead of 0.119-inches for the wire in the high output kit. Hopefully that will make a big difference in the cocking effort.
The Vortek PG4 Steel 7.5 foot-pound tune kit (top) and the PG4 High Output kit below.
As you can see, there is no appreciable difference in the length of the mainsprings between the two kits. The new lower-powered kit came with red grease instead of the brown grease Vortek used to supply with its kits.
Disassembly
I really dislike how the HJW 50S disassembles. It has four tabs (Weirauch calls them locking plugs) that must be pushed out of their holes to let the back block (Weihrauch’s name for the part the trigger and safety fit in) come free of the spring tube. There is also one tab on the back block that requires the whole block to be rotated to clear a notch in the spring tube. Removing this back block is definitely a job for a mainspring compressor.
Trigger out
The first thing to come out of the barreled action after removing the stock is the trigger. Press out the two cross pins to accomplish this. Then the Rekord trigger will slide out. And don’t forget the spring-loaded safety pin at the back of the spring tube.
Once the trigger is out the safety can come out, too.
Once the trigger is gone and the safety is removed the back block can be removed. That will be as far as we need to go on this rifle because a new 26mm piston seal was installed in Part 6
The barreled action is in the compressor and I’m using a socket to push on the back block. Do this carefully to take tension off the 4 locking tabs.
The four locking tabs (blue arrow points at one) must be removed first by pushing from the inside, then the back block is rotated until its tab (yellow arrow) clears the notch in the spring tube. That allows the back block to slide out of the spring tube.
In this view the back block has been rotated and some of the tension has been let off the mainspring, allowing the back block tab to clear the spring tube notch.
Stop here!
Let’s stop right here because what I just showed in the three photos above is the secret to the disassembly of many of the Weihrauch spring rifles. The four tabs can be difficult to remove unless you know the trick. The trick is in two parts. First you adjust the spring compressor to take all tension off those tabs so they want to pop out easily when pushed from the inside. Combine that with the second part, which is to insert a pin punch through the spring tube holes where the Rekord trigger pins came out. As you adjust the mainspring tension you wiggle the pin punch to align the holes in the back block and the tabs will almost pop out on their own.
You can make a small tool to push the tabs out from the inside. I made one from a bent nail. An Allen wrench cut off on the short end makes a good tab pusher, as well.
What I just described makes the difference between a 5-minute disassembly and one that takes an hour. It takes practice, but it can be learned.
Job done
Once the old kit (shown in the first picture) was out I lubed the new one and slid it in. No need to disassemble the barrel from the spring tube. Then the assembly was the reverse of the disassembly, except it helps to cock the trigger to install it in the rifle. If you forget how that’s done, read it here.
Then put the assembled barreled action into the stock and the job is almost done. After the rifle is together don’t forget to pull the trigger or the rifle won’t cock.
Now just cock the rifle and test fire. Oh, oh! The rifle refused to fire. Did I need to disassemble the rifle again while the action was cocked? Nope. The safety sometimes gets its coiled spring wire stuck in the hole it passes through and that will stop it from being disengaged. Just press harder and it should go off. Point the muzzle in a direction you want the gun to fire (pellet trap) when you do this.
Cocking effort
Where are we now? This rifle cocked with 32 pounds of effort from the factory and 37 pounds after installing the Vortek High Output kit. With the new kit installed it cocks with 32 pounds of effort. Well, that’s underwhelming. We’re back to the factory specs for cocking.
I wonder where the power is? With Air Arms Falcon pellet the factory tune averaged 810 f.p.s. And with this new tune the same pellet averages 902 f.p.s. Yep, this 7.5 foot-pound kit that has SMALLER wire (I measured it!) than the Vortek High Output kit produces 92 f.p.s. higher velocity than the factory spring that cocks with the same effort. It’s 98 f.p.s. slower than the High Output kit (1,000 f.p.s.). So this time Vortek missed the mark and gave me a 13.25 foot-pound rifle instead of a 7.5 foot-pound one.
I dislike the cocking effort! The shooting is reasonably smooth. and the trigger is adjusted to perfection — 2 stages that break at 14 ounces. But this isn’t what I wanted and I’m calling Vortek on it. On the other hand, if your R9 seems too heavy this might be just the airgun and tune for you.
Summary
We ain’t done yet. Somehow I think a wrong mainspring snuck into the kit, or the whole kit is wrong. We shall see.
BB
Is there any chance that the new spring has less coils? Maybe it’s my eyes but I still wonder.
Bill,
It’s difficult to count with the spring guide in the way.
BB
“On the other hand, if your R9 seems too heavy, this might be the airgun and tune for you.”
BB,
Yes, it’s not what you’ve looking for; yet you may have inadvertently stumbled across a combo here that some other readers may enjoy. Hence, it’s not wasted effort; I see it as another case of Romans 8:28 in action. 😉
Blessings to you,
dave
Dave,
It’s not unpleasant. It’s just not what I was looking for.
BB
Gotcha, BB; they still owe you the correct spring…and an explanation.
Tom,
How much preload does the new spring have on installation? I would be surprised though if Vortek answers that you have to cut the spring to get lower power.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
It’s right at 2 inches.
BB
If you can’t return the spring, would you try cutting off a few coils to reduce the preload?
Roamin,
Nope. I paid for a 7.5 foot-pound tuning kit and I’m gonna get one or know the reason why not!
BB
B.B.
That Stop Here section really hit home. I spent last weekend taking apart my HW 50s, one twice. I wish I had know the tension trick to pop out the 4 blocks. Does it work in reverse when putting everything back together?
FWIW-My HW 50 with a Vortek HO PG3 kit shoots the JSB 8.44 right at 810 fps.
-Yogi
PS Dear former Artillery man,
ON one podcast about Ukraine the comment was that after about 1,800 artillery 155mm shells are fired from a barrel, that the barrel is then Inaccurate and unusable. They said this was true for tank barrel, Howitzer barrels, etc, does not matter…
That seems like a pretty short service life for an effective battlefield weapon?
On the other hand Yogi, The 16 inch/45 caliber guns of the Iowa class of battle ships had a barrel life of 290 rounds before relining or replacement!
I think I’ll wait a while before changing my new HW50S spring until I find a smith. Too many unwilling parts.
But, I love mine at factory specs.
Yogi,
I was a tanker, not a cannon-cocker. The rifled tank barrels I used to shoot wore out in 400 full charge rounds. But we never shot full charge rounds, which were SABOT. What we shot gave us about 1,000 rounds.
BB
For the tanker-historians, July 12th marked the 80th anniversary of the largest armor engagement in history – the battle of Prokhorovka, the high-water mark of the fighting during Germany’s ill-fated Kursk offensive, Operation Citadel (Zitadelle); this took place not too far from today’s Russo-Ukrainian front. Lather, rinse, repeat, sad.
BB,
Wrong spring? What a bummer. I am certain that they will be quite happy to correct the issue. Look on the bright side, there will most likely be a Part 11. 🙂
P.S. This 34 sure cocks easy. Hopefully I will be able to spend some range time with her this weekend, if not sooner. 🙂
RR,
I’m so glad you like the 34. That tuneup turned out well!
BB
Tom,
On the subject of amount of preload vs thickness of wire, would you say that in general the wire thickness contributes more to the power of the spring? Obviously coil diameter, which would be a factor in general, is not a variable here, right? (The composition of the steel probably makes a huge difference.)
Years ago I purchased a modded HW77. What attracted me to it was that the seller detuned it a bit with a new HW50 spring. It had a smooth shooting behavior last I tried it, and it is the easiest cocking underlever I’ve ever shot, by far. At the time I did not yet have a TX200, but my thought was that my HW77 probably was like a slightly weak TX with much easier cocking. I should dig it out sometime this summer, although usually either early heat, oppressive humidity, rain or Canadian smoke has prevented me from going out more than a few times.
Michael
Michael,
Your question is one I have long pondered. I know that if the preload is decreased, the power drops a little and the cocking becomes easier. If the spring wire diameter decreases, the power drops quickly. The steel alloy makes a huge difference in power.
So yes, no and I don’t know. 😉
BB
Tom, Thanks for that. Spring makers are in a pretty special business, then.
Michael
Michael,
Want to fish spring information:
https://www.leespring.com/learn-about-compression-springs
Look around their resources drop-down and learn.
They provide all the knowledge you probably might want.
Simply put Tom’s kit included a spring that was mixed in with the batch intended for the 7.5 foot/pound — 10 Joule kits or the whole kit was put in the wrong bag!
IF the company doesn’t know spring engineering and just wings it they should promptly be put out of business.
shootski
shootski,
I’m checking out that website — thank you.
I guess technically a spring is not a machine or motor, but maybe it is. A spring does have inherent energy, or at least the ability to store energy it receives. Maybe springs are more like batteries or capacitors. Without a doubt there is a lot more going on with a spring compared to just any piece of steel.
I have also recently started reading about different steels used for different types of cutting instruments as I shopped for a new cleaver. (I eventually gave up trying to research it and ultimately bought a 1095 for fruits, vegetables, fish and de-boned poultry, and a 1065 for red meats, along with two-sided strop and a bottle of food-grade knife oil.) Don’t ever try to choose the right steel for a cooking utensil by asking experts online. Talk about a can of worms! Asking what steel is best for a cleaver is like stirring up a nest of hornets, bees and wasps simultaneously!
Michael
Hello Michael
In my humble 44 years of experience sharpening cutlery….
I would consider D2 tool steel
Exceptional for a cleaver.
You will really work to put an edge on it…… But in the inverse, you would really have to work to remove it.
Also , if you Appleseed the bevel shape it provides a robust shoulder to support the edge
Given that it will be impacting bone and such.
Frank,
Thanks for that. I will look up the term “appleseeding” an edge. My guess: is it kind of the opposite of a hollow ground edge?
I trust your expertise, but online I learned every steel is best and every steel is the worst for blades. If I were to post a question on just the wrong blade aficionado or “steel snob” web forum such as, “What’s the best steel for a kitchen cleaver, D2?” Or, especially, “What is the best steel for a battle-ready, non-traditional fantasy sword, High Carbon, Tool steel, or spring steel?” and I might get the following battle royale:
“You want 1065.” — “Ignore him, T10!” — “They are both just trolls. Yes, D2!” — “Forget them! 1095 all the way.” — “Regular grade stainless; these knuckleheads are in love with their Arkansas stones.” — “Manganese!” “MANGANESE? Are you kidding? 1045 and just sharpen it after every use!” — “Arkansas stone? This is the 21st Century, Bub.” — “SPRING STEEL for unparalleled durability!” — “Nothing can top my Black Arkansas stone.” — “Hah, it won’t sharpen better than my translucent Arkansaw stone!” — “Diamond sharpeners are the best these days.” “Nothing beats 1095. High carbon or die!”
;^)
(I’m sorry. I had a second cup of coffee during lunch and lost control.)
Michael
Michael,
You ARE sorry! It’s D7 tool steel. Everybody knows that! 😉
BB
LOL.
What BB said…..!
Michael I want you to forget what everyone else says and concentrate on my opinion because it’s the only one that I agree with.
Rofl!!
Okay picture the front or pointy end of an apple seed.
Picture that as the cross profile of your cutting edge.
Compare that to a triangular point with any angles.
Immediately behind The cutting edge which is only molecules thick do you want a wide pile supporting it or just enough??
Keeping in mind that this edge will have to repeatedly impact cartilage and Bone.
I like to think of it as a boxer’s head is there for hitting in his neck is therefore very thick.
I do not troll the internet for sharpening experience because you can’t get it there. You can avail yourself
Of specifications and use common sense though.
After 44 plus years, I am still experimenting and I don’t use my feelings where my gray area is supposed to work. I do love me a second cup of coffee though!
P.s. when you are stropping your Cleaver’s apple seed edge I want you to use almost a whisk broom motion.
That will seal and polish
Or rather burnish the ground edge. You should end the stroke with around a 45° angle.
You are not using any pressure as you get to the steep part of the angle.
Frank,
I already bought two different ones for two different uses because of the frustration I endured reading all the conflicting opinions. I bought a 1095 for fruits, vegetables, fish and de-boned poultry, and a 1065 for red meats. I figured harder steel for things that won’t chip it, and softer steel for bones. If the 1065 is easy enough to sharpen, it shouldn’t be too much of a pain, especially since it won’t get much use. Chopping vegetable and fruit is what the 1095 one will get used for, followed by a quick rinse, toweling off and smear of oil.
I do own a D2 Samurai sword, though. :^)
I will print out your sharpening instructions and keep them next to my strop. Thanks very much for those.
Michael
I have a sneaking suspicion at some point you will acquire a Japanese nakiri and quickly fall in love.
Maybe something with a vg10 core. A thin kerf
Is a real Plus for dense crisp vegetables. One of my favorite chef’s knives. Totally jealous on the D2 samurai sword!!
That’s something I would hand polish for a year. Then begin sharpening.
Frank,
Nakiris are sweet! I considered one of those for vegetables, but I ended up going with two cleavers from the same maker. They are handmade, to my specs, and inexpensive at about $120 for the pair. Another advantage to getting two is that we both can cut things at the same time. We have a large cutting board and a medium one, so this way it’s perfect.
The one we’re retiring is Japanese and of the shape of the Nakiris I’ve seen. The maker’s mark is faded enough that I cannot make it out, and it is Kanji, anyway, I think. It is VERY old and owes no one anything anymore, so it has become our “Cleaver/Knife Emeritus,” and a fond reminder of many great meals we made and ate together.
The sword is full tang, genuine ray skin, iron suba. I have another one which is either D2 or T10 (?) and not at all traditional, except for the blade shape and contours. It is more of a contemporary, practical Kitana with a steel suba, and leather wrapped maple grip.
I confess I am curious about Manganese and spring steel, especially spring steel for straight swords.
Michael
How about giving Air Rifle Headquarters a try? I have preferred their kits when I tried both for an HW30.
MarkinJHawkland,
I would but I already bought this kit and, by gum I’m gonna make it work!
BB
I have a great sense of fellowship with anyone who uses the expression, “By gum.” ;^)
Michael,
Boy howdy, I reckon! 🙂
BB
Maybe this is a stupid question, but when you order a kit like that are we certain the spring has been scragged??
Lately I have been on a journey with trying to calm an English made Gamo
Hunter 1250 in .177.
I even tried leaving it cocked and safely stored for a month. Still shooting full weight pellets over the sound barrier.
At this point it is still expensive attractive exercise machine only.
Maybe it’s time to go tune in a tube!?
Frank,
1. I use the kit exactly the way the manufacturer recommends. And,
2. The red grease I described in the kit is either Almagard 3752 (Tune in a Tube) or something very similar.
Frank Balistreri,
Check out my reply to Michael above and the link to: https://www.leespring.com/learn-about-compression-springs
shootski
I didn’t mean you had done anything incorrectly. I was just curious where scragging is applicable and not.
I don’t have a lot of experience with kits that you order.
As usual your experience is vast, and mine miniscule by comparison!
I will look to source some of that grease locally.
Frank,
Look for Red “N” Tacky grease. It’s a third the price of Almagard and, as far as I can tell, just as good.
BB
Thanks Tom you had me at a third as expensive!!!
It’s funny cuz it’s true.
Frank,
First, I know of Spanish/Gamo made Webleys, but I hadn’t heard of an English made Gamo. That’s new to me, so now I need to look for English Gamos! Could you post a picture of it’s labeling?
I don’t work on air guns for the sake of the air guns, but I believe in .177 those air rifles can only be tamed to any appreciable degree by usind a detuning kit or as you seem to have decided at least a weaker spring. Those magnum Gamos supposedly have a country mile of preload.
Michael
They certainly do have their share of preload. I had a lot of experience with one that my friend owned right before I lost my mind regarding airguns.
I went and bought a 22 caliber
Ultimate Condor package from PA. I went on to own everything from a Whiscombe jw80 MK2 with all four caliber barrels to a 600 ft lb
.457 DAQ.
His was definitely a scope wrecker…… But accuracy did live within that rifle. After a shooting session you would feel like you had been swinging Thor’s hammer though.
Michael,
Want to fish spring information:
https://www.leespring.com/learn-about-compression-springs
Look around their resources drop-down and learn.
They provide all the knowledge you probably might want.
Simply put Tom’s kit included a spring that was mixed in with the batch intended for the 7.5 foot/pound — 10 Joule kits or the whole kit was put in the wrong bag!
IF the company doesn’t know spring engineering and just wings it they should promptly be put out of business.
shootski
B.B., Readership, and especially Yogi,
As an early Dark Sider, long time Spring Gun Refusnick, and Gas Spring only owner i find it difficult to believe that coil spring airguns have all these problems, over and over again, when these types of resources and knowledge are available from the (some) Spring Manufacturers: https://www.leespring.com/maximize-spring-cycle-life
Eye opening on some of the issues you routinely point out!
The Dark Sider wonders Why?
For Yogi: Why do you springer devotee allow this?
shootski
shootski,
Slow down, please! You’re looking at an obvious mistake. They happen from time to time.
BB
B.B.,
I feel the NEED FOR SPEED!
We all have erasers on our pencils, is what i told my students to get them to point out any of my procedural errors and reminded them that in the tandem cockpit arrangement they typically arrived at the accident only milliseconds before their instructor pilot sitting in the rear cockpit.
Of course if they pointed something out i could always tell them: Good job! I was just testing you on your copilot vigilance…LOL!
My intent was NOT to badmouth/assail the Vortek folks but rather to wonder why many/some Spring Gun manufacturing seems to this Dark Sider to not take into account the basic engineering knowledge, technique, and specifications available.
My complaint can also be applied to CO2, single/multi pump, and PCP powerplant builders…is it because “we always did it that way” or worse still too cheap to bother with good engineering?
shootski
shootski,.
Good job! I was just testing you on your copilot vigilance…LOL! 😉
BB
I’m sure it has to do with cost. If you always manufactured everything with the finest available materials and manufacturing methods, there would be no price point pcps or “entry level” anything. If you want better springs, you need to spend a bit more and get the kit. I have read in this blog about folks who spend for a top of the line X-type airgun and then have it sent directly to an airgunsmith for tuning.
Roamin Greco,
I understand.
But is the cost of GOOD engineering and QC actually that expensive when weighed against Company Reputation and the sales numbers buyer satisfaction generates.
Tom may have gotten a packaging error or other mixup…i hope that isth case.
But why clip coils and all the other things without the guidance of good data?
Yes there are a small number of us that find we wanted or come to realize that we have different requirements after a purchase. That is a perfect time to have the specifications clearly known to describe the performance we want in the changes we undertake.
shootski
My understanding is that the Vortex top hat is designed to accept a spring that has not been flattened and ground flat, and I am speculating that perhaps the solution may be to clip a few coils and retest. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.
Of course I would agree that if improvements can be made without affecting the ability to sell your product there would be benefits. For example,, Diana used to have different quality levels of the Model 34 called the Models 36 and 38. One could easily see examples of that in many products Toyota vs. Lexus for example. But not everyone can afford the better version.
P.S. we ended up going to Mia’s in Alexandria; it was great. That was on our way back from a tour of Mount Vernon. Today we went through Ford’s Theater and learned about Lincoln’s assassination. Tomorrow the Supreme Court and the Capitol Building.
Roamin Greco,
Haven’t eaten at Mia’s in Alexandria but did eat at the Mia’s in Orlando often. It was more or less across the street from the Rosen Aquatic Center and they could handle a full deck of very hungry swim officials for lunch or dinner whenever the Meets allowed.
Will need to see how it translates to 100 King St. in Old Town. I have kayaked past that address any number of times during inundation events. I think that is why the kitchen has always been on the second floor (1st floor in most of the rest of the World) to avoid the flooding.
I wonder just how big of a percentage of airgun buyers are like you and much of the blog readership? Able to more or less at least know that something can be done to improve the shooting experience beside the dust bin, giving it away, or selling it to the next victim?
Enjoy your touring i’m getting all or most of my to do list done before my Cataract Procedure on Tuesday.
Hope tomorrow is a bit cooler…Enjoy!
shootski
Roamin,
Monday! 😉
BB
Thank you my friend. That Lee spring
Link is quite a resource. I’ve already been on it for 20 minutes. Any day you learn something is a good day.
“Any day you learn something is a good day.”
Emerson could not have said it better!
shootski,
I think in fairness there is a tinkerer’s temptation to fiddle with springers in addition to repairing genuine issues and frankly necessary tunes (like the banjo-twanging, vibromatic Walther LGV Tom tuned for me, the harshest vibrating air rifle he had ever fired). Some of the best home mechanics I’ve known spend much of every weekend endlessly tuning their prized hot rods and muscle cars. (Although sometimes some of them surreptitiously sip beers under the hood when the wife comes out.)
And honestly consider, Darksider, how much maintenance is par for the course with PCP compressors and hand pumps. My goodness, they are sold complete with rebuild kits! They are expected to wear out and/or break down. Don’t forget, a PCP is a two-piece air gun, the gun and the compressor. No springer comes with a spare piston seal or mainspring for its routine maintenance. I have dozens of 40-70 year old springers that are in fine shooting condition with their original piston seals and mainsprings. Can the same be said for a high pressure compressor or handpump?
And what of your air-spring springers? Can any of your PCPs claim the same degree of workmanship of them? :^) A high quality springer is a work of mechanical art. A PCP is little more than a barrel, a trigger, and a can of squished air. ;^)
Just sayin’. :^)
Michael
Michael;,
Ouch! Apparently today is a good day? 🙂
BB
Tom,
This is what happens when I have two cups of coffee in the morning and then another two at lunch. You should see how fast I’m typing all of this!
Michael
B.B.,
I am happy that Michael is having a good day.
I hope he has many more along with all the rest of us.
But there is NO OUCH! there.
shootski
Why FM likes his HW springers is captured in your last paragraph. On the other hand, a quality PCP will also find a home in Casa FM. Each has its virtues and its flaws. The important thing is to enjoy what you shoot. If a particular airgun does not give you joy or ceases to do so, it is time to move it on or retire it.
Michael,
What you say is true for some for sure!
But not for me.
My tinkering phase was over in a few short years and revolved around CO2 and Single/Multi Pump powerplants. I did work on upgrading my very early modern PCP as improvements became available and apparent through use.
I am a shooter.
I don’t own a compressor for hpa but do own three hpa hand pumps that never get used other than to do functional testing and continued PM. I use any number of CF 300+ BAR, Steel 250 Bar , and Aluminum SCUBA cylinders in a Cascade System. The Dive Shop is cheap, close by, and reliable.
Most all of the PCPs i own are DAQ built need i say more on “squished air” quality and longevity.
I own two SIG SSG ASP20 and i would put them up for build and design quality on anything you might own!
“Just sayin’ ;^)”
Nur gesagt Shachmatt
shootski
Hey shootski!!
Any chance you have anything on your wish list against one of those hand pumps??
I too have decorated my house with
Daqs…. If that is the correct plural LOL.
Please tell me if you have any 25 calibers from Dennis??
I would love to hear of your accuracy experience with them.
I would rather lose my hair than any of them. I even have a 22 light Sporter…. From the real early days.
I even owned an amaranth letter k
With two barrels. Really cool liege lock. I sold that but I loved it. I also had a .457 destroyer
That big bore Bob Dean massaged up to 600 ft lb.
I have kept 25 long rifle knave with a matching 25 brush gun.
It’s a long rifle has a grade 5 exhibition stock, the companion brush gun for short barrel rifle
grade 4 Walnut.
I also have a 25 pistol with a daq upper that was built by Walter Glover. And of course a 25 outlaw pistol that’s wearing a stunning carbine buttstock.
I mounted a 308 outlaw pistol
In a woods and water carbine stock. Then I have a pair of 308 rifles, one with the Bob Dean riser allowing an air hog custom-made full barrel shroud. Yeah I have no source of high pressure air right now it’s agony.
Frank B.,
You have probably been at this DAQ obsession longer than me. Sounds like a great collection!
But how can you be an airless Big Bore owner?!?!
Also…Walter Glover, now that is a name not heard or read by me in decades.
I didn’t get serious until the early 1990s when i brought my family back to the USA from a long string of OUT CONUS duty.
I have no wishes currently. I keep 3 pumps to be certain i can fill without downtime…IF!
Of course i have .25 caliber DAQs…i have an upper (DAQ barrel breech) on a 2250 with a custom BIG Wright valve, a DAQ CO2 Bulk Fill out front. It shoots well with a .40 grain slug or goes near transonic with a medium weight pellet.
I have two more .25 Outlaw DAQs. I have all the rifle calibers to include the .58 SR and a .58 pistol. The most recent DAQ is the C&G .410 shot pistol. I own one of the few DAQ made Hammer Spring adjusters…he trusted me, LOL!
The Shot Pistol is the most accurate…i can wave it around all i want and it still groups well….
I have managed to get all my DAQ rifled guns to shoot at least sub 2 MOA. My .458 is just a hair over MOA with Mr. Hollowpoint 310 grain hp at 100. The .308 1:10 will shoot 5 into MOA or less with most 130gr rn. It does takes knowing the repeatable tube flex effect on POI and adjusting the POA to correct for it; just as Tom has often reported on.
To many DAQ owners never learn(ed) their guns quirks and then complain. I’m most interested in my “cold bore shot” over shooting groups any day.
Now go get some air!
shootski
The Whiscomb and Amaranth are the ones that would have me drooling. In general mega-powerful PCPs like those by Dennis are of no value to me as I am a paper shooter and plinker, not a hunter.
shootski, Nochmal Überprüfen! :^)
shootski,
My previous reply to check again refers to my using your Sigs as proof I’m right. I see you agree that no PCP exceeds their quality, just as I implied.
Ippon.
Michael
Michael,
I must protest that POINT…LOL!
Schachmatt.
Means Game Over Man!
The Criadillas de Toro were to die for…
shootski
shootski,
More literally the translation is a chess reference, Check Mate, to which I responded Check Again. Your response above, I own two SIG SSG ASP20 and I would put them up for build and design quality on anything you might own!” Prior to that I wrote, “And what of your air-spring springers? Can any of your PCPs claim the same degree of workmanship of them?” So, you agree with my point. :^) (It occurred to me just now that I might have misread your Check Mate comment to mean I had “won” the “game.” If so, I apologize.)
I’m sorry, but our points have been made, and I’m moving on from this one. It is bordering on becoming tiresome. C’mon, Man, it’s just a silly springers vs PCP thing.
Michael
Michael,
We can choose to blame it on the Lazy, Hazy, Crazy Days of Summer…i’m done with today’s workout and going for the Laugen Bretzles und Bier!
https://www.menshealth.com/fitness/a30728196/mobility-exercise-brettzel-stretch/
Done any?
shootski
I understand BB wanting his HW50S to cock and shoot the way he wants. Having said that here is some unsolicited advice for new HW50S owners or those considering it. My HW50S in stock form except for Tune in A Tube added to mainspring requires no bumping to unlock the hinge and is only slightly harder to cock than my Diana 35 (HyScore). Breaking in was necessary to loosen up the barrel lockup. I highly recommend the HW50S if you want a rifle that offers both accuracy and medium power.
Deck
A question for those of us that are not diehard springer guys.
What cocking effort do you expect it to be with the 7.5ftlb kit in it?
I think its neat that you can go from one extreme to the other with just a simple spring kit change.
Not that changing springs is a simple task, there are evil snakes in live in that compression tube.
They are just waiting to bite the unknowing airgunner trying to change the kit without the proper tools and instructions…
Ian