by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- Crosman Premiers
- A dollar cheaper
- Cut a slot in your head!
- Back to airguns
- Which one?
- How to choose
- Same for airguns
- We’ve been invaded!
- Whatcha do
- Summary
Ahhh! Saving money. Many of the airgunners I know will go to extremes to do it, and it often costs them a lot.
Crosman Premiers
I remember back in the middle ’90s, when the Crosman Premier pellet was the talk of the airgun world. Everybody wanted Premiers because they flew so straight in so many airguns. I remember talking to the Crosman engineer who designed the Premier. He attended an airgun show in Baldwinsville, New York, and no, it wasn’t Ed Schultz. He told me he designed the Premier line to be aerodynamic and when the design was finalized, all the pellets in the line were very aerodynamic. So Premiers flew straight and true and everybody wanted them.
A dollar cheaper
But because they were airgunners, everybody wanted the cheapest Premiers they could buy. So when Rick Willnecker offered Premiers in his store at a dollar a box less than what they sold for online, the hunt was on! One guy on my Airgun Letter yellow forum bragged about driving from southern Virginia to Rick’s place in Pennsylvania, where he saved five dollars! He drove over 200 miles round trip to do it and spent the better part of a day on the road. Some savings!
Cut a slot in your head!
When I worked as a contractor, teaching members of the Department of Defense how their acquisition system worked, the talk was always about saving money. And yet the actions that were taken were often just the opposite. The systems my clients bought were huge telecommunications systems that were unique, as in one of a kind. They used minicomputers, which in those days were VAX 11-780s — tall cabinets the size of two large school lockers, and the systems might have dozens of them! We were also pushing the state of the art, when it came to the response times of these systems.
Guys, when you build a unique system you want it to work well, come in on time and be cheap. Pick two of those three things, because it is impossible to get all three! I got so frustrated with this “buying on the cheap” mindset that I told my clients if they wanted to save money they should cut a slot in their head and become a piggy bank.
Back to airguns
How does this relate to airguns? Simple! You want a pellet rifle that’s pleasant to shoot, accurate and has a good trigger. Looks aren’t as important, but you don’t mind if the gun you get looks traditional. You want a .177 because you are getting this airgun just to plink and to have some fun. Your choices are a Beauregard Woods Raider QT XDR with a lightning gas ram, an HW 30S and a Shining Mountain single shot. These three are all breakbarrels that shoot at under 700 f.p.s.
The Woods Raider QT XDR retails for $249. The HW 30S retails for $299 — $339, when it’s in stock, but it seems to be sold out everywhere. The Shining Mountain sells for $169-199.
Which one?
You are not new to airguns. You know that the Shining Mountain breakbarrel is from China. It could be good, but it’s being sold by small fly-by-night dealers on eBay and Amazon, and you also know that the accuracy will be a crap shoot. Some of the dealers will be honest and easy to deal with if you get a rifle that’s lousy, but you just went through a nasty return experience with a no-name dealer and you aren’t up for another one so soon.
The Beauregard Woods Raider QT XDR with lightning gas ram is being sold by a major distributor and Pyramyd AIR has them in stock. However, you know that this rifle is also probably Chinese, so you will be taking the same chance with accuracy as you would with the Shining Mountain. The good news is there are two reputable companies between you and this purchase. Both of them have good reputations for customer satisfaction. But still, there is all that doubt about the DNA of the airgun. And it has a gas piston that, I don’t care who made it, always makes the rifle a little harder to cock.
And then there is the HW 30S. Without question this one is the most expensive of your three choices and what’s worse, it isn’t available right now. You just got your income tax refund and you want an airgun!
The HW 30S will be smooth and accurate. You know that it will have the best trigger of all three choices and also that Weihrauch air rifles are made to be serviced by their owners. So, if you ever want to modify it or to lubricate it, this is the only one of the three that makes it easy for you.
How to choose
Allow me to reflect on how a 73 year old diabetic looks at something like this. It’s lunchtime and I want a hot fudge sundae for dessert. I have the ice cream, the whipped cream and the hot fudge on hand to make it. I know that if I eat one right now my blood sugar will be off the chart for the next two days. And also, because I am lactose intolerant, there could be problems during my daily walk that comes up in about three hours.
Having gone down this trail many times in the past I have learned that abstinence always hurts up front, but it also almost always pays off in the long run. I say almost always, because sometimes I just gotta have that sundae!
Same for airguns
It’s the same for airguns. Right now you can’t find an HW 30S for sale in the United States. But there are still plenty of Beauregard Woods Raider QT XDRs with lightning gas rams and Shining Mountain breakbarrels for sale. Why?
We’ve been invaded!
The socio-political events of recent times have driven all the packrat airgunners in the United States to fill their nests with shiny trinkets to the point that there is no room for them anymore. Also, a hundreds-of-times larger herd of packrats has crossed over from the world of firearms. They can’t find enough 9mm, .40 cal. and .223 Remington ammo to fuel their weekly habit of punching paper, and they heard that airguns are the next best thing. They are used to paying thousands of dollars for an all-up AR-15 and when they saw that the HW 30S was only $339, they figured that was chump change.
These guys listened to all of you before they made any purchases and you warned them about the Shining Mountain breakbarrels and the Beauregard Woods Raider QT XDR with lightning gas ram. They were able to run over the barbed wire entanglement that you guys fell on in your years of becoming airgunners, by stepping on your backs. And now there is no toilet paper in the airgun world. Whaddaya do?
Whatcha do
You can buy what’s out there right now, and in a few days the brown Santa (or the dark blue Tooth Fairy) will deliver a happy package to your doorstep. Or, you can grit your teeth and commit to spending even more money by ordering an HW 30S from whomever will take your order. And then you wait. Yeah — I hate waiting too, but what’s even worse than waiting is opening that happy package and discovering that you now have to justify an air rifle that’s deficient in multiple ways, when old BB Pelletier told you there is something much better. Darn it, BB, why didn’t you stick to straight razors?
Summary
There are a lot of ways to go, these days, but not all of them will get you where you want to be. This stuff is so easy for me to write because over the years I have made all these mistakes — many times!
Quality pays back, maybe in the long run, but always.
During the University years we also learned that there is no free meal…
Good day to you all
B.B.,
Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment. — Will Rogers
Oh the money I could have saved if I only knew then what I really wanted and needed!
Siraniko
PS Section Cut a slot in your head! 2nd paragraph last sentence: “I got so frustrated with this “buying on the cheap” mindset that I told my clients if they wanted so (to) save money they should cut a slot in their head and become a piggy bank.”
Siraniko,
Fixed it. Thanks,
BB
Gamo Special update: New Scope.
I caved and decided the cheapest and best was the Nikko Stirling 3-9x 42 Air King Gold Crown. $189 landed. Tried out the mount that came with it and nope that thing would not stay on. Needs fettling. Recycled my old mount which looked too short and it was BUT by removing the focus ring rubber grip it did! Next problem is the overall length is more than my Japanese Tasco 4x 32…darn. So I have to push the butt stock back and the cheek rest. How does it look? Well it definitely focuses down to a decent 10m. and no idea how far out it goes. A long ways. Diopter adjust works! Reticle is crystal clear. Zoom in/out is fine, not tooo easy, just right. Overall it looks really good. Engraved numbers etc. Wow. dialing it in will be cool. and then marking off the distances. I would be surprised if what they have at 20m is in fact 20m…. but I quite ok with being surprised. Next thing is a hood. Something rugged that will keep it clean and tidy. A mod I have in mind is a circular strip on the focus ring so I can mark off the distances. Which may not work… never mind. : – ) Robert.
RobertA,
It looks the business! Well nobody ever put a guarantee that every scope will allow you to keep your current cheek weld. That’s another reason for me to stick to peep sights. The nice thing is that you are still in the developmental stage and have room to adjust. Can you imagine the frustration you would have if this happened after you have finalized your stock?
Siraniko
Siraniko, BB,
The Irony of buying this during the “saving money at any expense” …. Well it’s not like I suddenly lashed out and bought it. In fact I turned down a 1/2 price used one simply to get the warranty and brand new. and the “stock is dwindling” fear of missing out due to imports drying up ( this is slightly different from the pack rat as the rate of buying has not changed….much ) .
The stock is never set in stone. It is particularly good for the peep/dioptre sight so I am starting to think it’s time to make a new one. Which is easier than finding the right wood. I may have to start gluing planks together to make blocks. also I never get frustrated when introducing elements to a design, however I would be annoyed if I designed around specs from over the phone only to find they were wrong. The LOP is now being dictated by the scope. ( lop being from the front of the vertical grip to the back of the butt in my world of specs.) This is function of the longer scope tube. Darn. With the peep I can go super short! So yes. I will design a new scope stock. Peep stock will be only for off hand out to 50m max. The scope well I think 100m is doable. I did some rough tests and yes I can shoot out that far. Pellet drop is not as bad as I though it might be. and this is where I start to get busy working out my hold over. I think I am committed to the H&N field target trophy pellets, they work.
Also I can design a more attractive stock. Not exactly sure how to do that yet… and this: I an supremely lucky the scope fits JUST, it almost over ran the loading chute. and that would have been not good. That 42mm lense is huge. They do a 50mm one . it’s even huger! We have rain rain rain here at the moment so I am keeping out the mud. The camp chair shooting stance is a mud dodger, food for thought! Need a box to put my pellets and drink on …. Robert.
RobertA,
If you put in enough adjustment to the stock you have one length of pull for the peep sight and another setup for the telescopic sight. Right now all I have is sunshine and it’s feeling 39⁰C out in the sun and 34⁰C in the shade. The worst part is that they have is under lockdown and I can’t shoot.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Exactly ( Pull ) . Come over we can go to muddy range! and its that 39 Deg C or F ???
I came up with this aphorism: You know you are in deep ( at the work bench I might add ) when your 3/4 full cup of coffee has gone cold and is collecting saw dust, wood chips and swarf….
On the boil in the garage, raging DIY , maybe going over and above the call of duty but I have the urge. Got some cunning plans. And almost botched it. Phew. There was a a small “oh yeah…” when I realise I was about to make a mistake. Caught it though, just. Glueing plywood together to make up the width. What fun! Robert.
RobertA,
That’s Centigrade. I live in the Philippines. That’s a ventral fin growing on your stock.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Roger that, far out that’s hot. My Scottish bloody boils at anything over 15 deg C … constantly over heating. The fin is to weather vane me into the wind so I am not shooting across it…. Robert.
Robert,
Looking good! That thing is really starting to take shape.
Chris
Chris USA,
Thanks! It’s coming along quite well. The new scope is making me get off my backside. Still not too sure about the forestock. The shape is triangular, which is nice to grip, has a large flat area which is good for sitting things. I could shape it out of a solid block of ply. I think tweaking this and shooting the heck out of it before I do anything else. I am going to try for 100m. I reckon I can do it. ( well at least I can see that far now…) Pic of how the lever gets past the hamster. : – ) Robert. PS I did clean off that grimy linseed oil off the alloy !
Yea, I have resembled those people many times.
I have also realized that WANTING something, is sometimes more pleasurable than actually OWNING it.
Now as I get a little older, I am trying to go with a better quality airgun in the hand, rather than a higher quantity of airguns in the safe.
With one exception, vintage airguns. I have 5 Crosman MKI/MKII’s, and 4 S&W 78/79’s on hand at the moment.
All but 2 or 3 of the Crosmans will find new homes eventually.
A MKI&MKII as a matched set, and a third one that is set up for pure power.
And 1 each of the 78&79g will stay as a set.
And after working on a Crosman 38T, I think there will be one in my future, but I don’t know why.
I have shot and tinkered with FX, Daystate, & RAW.
I have come to find, that I like the FEEL and quality of AirArms.
For a Utility airgun, Its AirForce, hands down.
I always tell myself I don’t have an airgun problem.
Then I list all my airguns on paper, and realize otherwise.
The list is still long, but a lot more upscale than it once was.
Powder burners, PCP, Co2, and about a year ago, I crossed the line into an AirArms springer.
It doesn’t matter, I am a self confessed addict of anything with a trigger.
Ian..
Ian,
You are a real gas, pun intended.
You will be hard pressed to find a better shooting sproinger than AirArms. Weihrauch will likely give them a run for their money, but AirArms has it in the looks department. Their price reflects such.
FX, well, they are expensive. If you have the time and patience you can tune them to do pretty good (read wow). Daystate makes some mighty awesome eye candy. They also shoot real nice. They have a price tag that would choke a horse. Even their Brocock line is overpriced.
I have to agree with you on AirForce. They are not much to look at, but boy can they shoot.
Crosman? They make some decent PCPs that have potential. They still need to learn how to build a sproinger though.
The operative word in that last sentence is BUILD!
As in IN HOUSE!
I have no problems with them building with parts sourced from other countries, but the final build and QC happens HERE!.
Not contract out to Wang Poo industries to build to your specs, then have them box it, and ship it to your customers without you the company with your name on the box, ever opening a production one for testing.
We see that happen all the time, if it’s an Asian contract build, never buy a Gen1 of anything.
We know the drill, but the Big names haven’t figured it out, or don’t care.
Look at the remake of a popular Russian springer that can no longer be imported to this country.
Their pre production samples met their specs for accuracy, but the final product that went to the customers Didn’t meet those specs.
Hence, the later released “Pro” version.
And I get it, the vendor went to a lower spec barrel on their end to increase their already anorexic profit margin, hoping the company would never notice.
If you want me to beta test your products, send me one, I will test it, and try to find the shortcomings, and then send it back to you.
If I like it, I will buy it.
But, don’t make me BUY one, then make me have to buy a later version with the bugs ironed out.
If you are going to do that to us, at least have the decency to take the gen1 guns as a full price trade in for the Gen2 gun.
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice? Shame on me …..
No, there won’t be a twice…
Ian
Ian,
I never buy a Gen 1 anything. With airguns, Crosman has taught me that is a big mistake. I know we were just reading that Crosman leak tests ALL of their PCPs. Well, they must have just started doing that because a lot of their PCPs in recent years have been sent back because of leaks.
I know what happened there. Velocity Outdoors wanted a quick return on their investment. Crosman threw a bunch of airguns together and shipped them out quickly. Well, they had a bunch of problems with them. Finally somebody woke up and said, wait a minute. Now Crosman is starting to pay a little bit more attention to quality.
Also, as I was saying, they still need to learn how to build a sproinger. What Velocity Outdoors needs to do is snatch up Crosman’s engineering department and lock them away somewhere with an Air Arms TX200, a Weihrauch with a Rekord trigger and a Diana with a true T06 trigger and not let them out until they can design and build a decent shooting sproinger with a decent trigger.
Forget Wang Po Industries. You want to buy their very first run. Those might be decent. The Gen 2 Stormrider is being recalled. This is supposedly after some of the Gen 1 bugs have been worked out.
BB,
If you want cheap and reliable, buy vintage, send it over to a good airgun repair shop, and use it or the rest of your life.
Those older Diana’s, Weirauch’s and the rest are build to last and they will outlast you. I just bought a Diana 50 (around 1958). A .22, but not advertised as such, no repair needed, one of the most accurate guns I owe (10 mtr in your trime section), costing 250 $. And when my children will sell it, they will get more for it than I payed.
Okay, you need to get some knowledge and some feel for buying second hand and some patience, but is that not the part of the game which is the most interesting?
Regards,
August
August,
I am with you man! This is why there is a RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns. I have some very old airguns here that are built to last and shoot as well as the almost any new bright and shiny. Most of them moved in for $100 or less. They are all worth several times that.
I do have a couple of the new bright and shinys. One of them was what I consider REAL expensive (I have Scottish blood), but it was a fine piece of eye candy that felt good in the hands and man can it shoot!
P.S. A Diana 50 just recently moved into RRHFWA.
August,
I agree. Older airguns can offer build quality that is less common in modern airguns. They can be found in the modern guns, too. But you have to be more selective and pay up for it.
For my part, I am more interested in quality than saving money.
If going the vintage route, the tradeoff is patience. Can’t get something immediately. I spent two years looking for the right Ceska Zbrojovka vz.35, before pulling the trigger, so to speak!
It’s a rare gun, and mostly a piece of history. But it also makes extensive use of milled and forged parts, before stampings became more common by the late 1930’s and early 1940’s. To me, that is special.
Now if only I could get it to talk!
StarboardRower
StarboardRower,
A VZ 35! I had one. What a wonderful airgun! I also had the VZ 49 that was an updated version but not nearly as well finished. My 35 lacked the upper handguard. I even had a bayonet that fit.
BB
BB,
I remember your blogs on them!
/blog/2009/01/vz35-and-vz47-two-interesting-military-trainers/
A great gun indeed. I do not have the vz.47. But I recall it has the same receiver/cocking mechanism as the vz.35. Did you sell them?
Interestingly, the original Czech Army manual for the vz.35 was reprinted a few years ago. I sure would like to buy a copy. I feel like there could be a lot to learn from that manual about these amazing airguns! Having written Army manuals yourself, I’d be glad to send one your way. But the reprint was a quick run of booklets and they are sold out. I can’t find one.
StarboardRower
StarboardRower,
I had no idea there was a manual on the rifle. Wow!
BB
B.B.,
https://www.manualsdir.com/manuals/355611/wolfvision-vz-35.html
Jokingly!
http://www.vzduchovka.cz/dokumentace/list_of_documents.html
B.B. use the same techniques you use to find guns to buy. Lots of manuals are called Handbuch and by other names and in other languages. Often the page will have a bunch of flags to select different languages.
shootski
BB/Shootski,
Here is the link to the vz.35 Czech Army manual.
http://www.knihy-brigadyr.cz/vyslo.html
As I said, it is a reprint of the original 1930’s document… published just a few years ago. The publisher is a Czech specialty publisher, focusing on military history.
The website (and manual) is in Czech. If you right-click on the page and select “Translate to English”, it will be a much easier read!
There are 3 sample pages of the 36-page manual you can see. The first page is comments from the publisher. The 2nd and 3rd sample pages are taken from the middle of the book. They are a portion of the vz.35 disassembly instructions.
Now if only I could get a copy!
StarboardRower
B.B.,
“Buy once, cry once.”
Right?
-Cal
Cal,
I like it! 🙂
BB
BB,
I am one of those who has been forced to learn patience. Over the years I have also learned that patience can pay off. Using airguns as an example, I have bought new airguns for considerably lower than prices normally asked by saving my pennies and waiting for the right opportunity to come along. I saved hundreds on my HM1000X. I just bought a .22 Maximus recently for $157, that is with taxes and shipping.
The used market can be a good place to save also, as you well know. Speaking of an HW30S, I bought one for my grandson a little while back for about half of what a new one would cost. It came in the original box, with the original papers. It also looked brand new. No marks. No dings. It is an awesome little shooter.
I never buy the latest and greatest anything. Over the years I have learned that the latest and greatest is mostly marketeering hype. I like to give things some track time before I put down my hard earned money. I have also learned that much of what is offered today is meant to be thrown away after a bit and a new bright and shiny takes its place.
P.S. Speaking of new bright and shinys, I do not know how many of you bought these things but there is a recall notice on the Diana Stormrider Gen 2. It seems they will go off on their own. I do not know how old this recall is. You guys may know about it. I ran across it this weekend. Never did care much for Wang Po Industries’ quality control (or lack thereof).
B.B.
I remember that many years ago a Dutch guy developed a PCP that he called the Beauregard. He said that it was the most powerful airgun in the world. I believe that it developed around 400 fpe and he could hit pumpkins at 300 yards.
-Y
Recall Update
Diana Stormrider Gen 2
September 10, 2019
BB,
Good article. Luckily,.. I found the blog here early on and managed to stay with pretty good quality. Eventually, my taste moved to PCP’s. I have done ok there too.
Like has been said,.. it pays to do your homework. No lack of offerings (assuming they are in stock).
Chris
My airgun buying habits are very different. I don’t buy new airguns. I read the blogs and forums and see what people like, and more importantly, keep liking over time. Then about 5 years later these airguns drop to a reasonable price and I keep an eye out for them. Doing this and not overpaying makes it much easier to buy and sell and try different airguns on a limited budget. Out of hundreds of airguns I have owned the only two airguns I ever bought new were a Beeman P17 and a Daisy 953, both on closeouts from big box stores.
David Enoch
David,
Now that is a plan! 😉
BB
BB, I was just thinking that what makes the best long term investment and what will make the best blog series may not be one and the same. The guns that you write about that have issues tend to make for interesting blog series. Guns that just do what they are supposed to do are more boring blogs. I do think that a quality gun with issues that can be restored, at least in performance, is better reading than trying to make a good gun out of the cheapest offering. I myself love a well worn smooth shooting airgun.
David Enoch
David,
I respond to that — “Bore me!”
BB
B.B.,
” ‘Bore me!’ ” as in load me into a Bore?
I remember pilots that described flying as hours of sheer BOREdom interspersed with moments of stark terror. As an Aviator I could never understand that attitude! I loved every minute of flying from the most mundane mission to a full on combat mission.
Shooting has always been the same for me! Right down to my very worst shot!
shootski
My late father-in-law, an electrical engineer by trade, was a proponent of buying used but good cars needing minor repair, fixing them up himself and then, according to his automotive philosophy, “driving them to death.” He would no doubt have applied this philosophy to airgunnery. Too bad he did not take up the hobby as FM would have learned much from him; at least he taught me a couple of vehicle repair and maintenance lessons which have served FM and Mrs. well. The man had the gift of becoming skilled at doing anything he chose to self-teach himself to do. Guess “Renaissance Man” would have been a good adjective to describe him.
And believe that, though highly tempted by the ASP20, the fact it is not a self-repair/mod friendly rifle is going to be a deal-breaker; also, quality always trumps quantity in FM Land, where things that are cherished are meant to stay for life. For those reasons, a Weihrauch may be in the acquisition sights. Of course, feedback and suggestions are always welcome from all ye who know a helluva lot more about the subject than FM does or ever will.
Choice is good; it is also difficult to make but in the end, if one is happy, one has made a good choice.
FawltyManuel,
“Choice is good; it is also difficult to make but in the end, if one is happy, one has made a good choice.”
Totally! And each of us, fortunate enough to live in a Free State, gets to make our choice! Hopefully we will have the honest information on which to base that choice.
I chose to buy the two ASP20 because the .177 seemed to be the last new one I could find. Then SIG’s distributors apparently returned a number of the now unsellable product; that let me get the synthetic stocked .22 caliber WHISKEY 3 bundle. Was that a smart thing for me to do? Yes it is! I shot the .177 enough to understand that i like gas spring break-barrel air rifles! The availability of what I long ago posted that i was going to get was just a case of serendipity.
I realize, and understand, the objections to SIGs opposition to user repairs. I have seen enough gunsmith amateurs products come apart on the range!
Does SIG carry that to the extreme… probably. Is it sad that they may never build this fine airgun again… certainly.
But at 72 I Made My FREE CHOICE based on this one thing; I know I will enjoy the heck out of shooting them!
shootski
Believe you have made good choices with your ASPs; a big draw for FM if choosing one would be supporting Made In USA products. By the time FM decides, the well will have run dry. Part of the problem is everytime I think I’m ready to acquire something, something else of higher priority pops into sight. For example, 25 rd mags for the GSG MP40 are scarce, so when 2 became available during an online scouting mission, pulled the trigger on those last Friday.
Think you mentioned being stationed in Spain? Mrs. spent a year in Seville ’73-’74 perfecting her Spanish. She and her girlfriend toured one of our “boomers” in Rota, the Kamehamea, and even had lunch with Cdr Loman and the officers; Cdr Loman hailed from the same hometown as my wife and her friend’s, Lexington NC, hence the connection. The ladies even got to sign the same logbook JFK had autographed years earlier.
My good buddy now in Washington state was also there at the time. He was a Navy “rescue guy,” and a first-class “operator.” Because he was fluent in Spanish, he could procure supplies of local goodies for his outfit. He even finagled the privilege of living off-base and bought himself a used Spanish motorbike for his travels. I should ask him if he bought a Gamo at some point but as he was more into the good Spanish drinkables, edibles and ladies, doubt he did.
Don’t mean to bore you all with the off-topic topics and sneaky puns; the “rememberer” is…triggered and believe exercising the “rememberer” makes one a better airgunner – if that makes any sense.
FawltyManuel,
“Part of the problem is everytime I think I’m ready to acquire something, something else of higher priority pops into sight.”
(I think your Weihrauch is a choice I might have made IF the Godfather had NOT gushed so about the SIG ASP20.)
FM, you call that a problem! I call that the Airgun Cornucopia we are currently “suffering” under ;^)
Your Mrs. and friends were in España a bit before our first of two tours at NS Rota. We also lived On-the-Economy in a fantastic house in Valdelagrana. We didn’t think much of the folks that self-imposed on base confinement on themselves. It was, however, the beginning of end of the Spanish Capitalist Middle Class fostered by the security of property ownership the Franco Dictatorship had provided. On our second tour in the 1980’s the Royal/Socialist mash up had almost bankrupted the country! The Middle Class Spanish friends we had made during our first tour had been mostly paupered; it was heartbreaking to see their dreams dashed by the rampant taxation that only helped the Socialist/Red politically privileged!
“Don’t mean to bore you all with the off-topic topics and sneaky puns; the “rememberer” is…triggered and believe exercising the “rememberer” makes one a better airgunner – if that makes any sense.”
Not boring at all Mrs. Shootski and I enjoy remembering her seven years in Spain and my perhaps two years in Spain obtained in a few days here a few days there over those seven “Cold” War years.
shootski
PS: if my scribbles seem disjointed it was the FedEx Drivers fault! I took delivery of my .22 ASP20 :^)
It looks like the synthetic stock is everything you want from the manmade stuff. The fit for me is perfect right out of the box even without all the unrealized potential adjustability of the SSG style stock. I’ll be saving my Quarters for the TAB GEAR Elite Biathlon style sling to plug those QD holes.
PPS: It is a REAL SHAME that the large majority of “knowledgeable” airguners didn’t give this air rifle the love and sales volume that it so richly deserved! END of Post Script RANT!
As tempting as the low price can be, a new Avenger is not a better deal than fixing my old G1 .25 marauder,
even tho on paper, the Avenger is a better performing gun because of the features it has. I can put a new Benjamin valve in the Mrod to replace the one I ruined for not very much money, but I wont do that. Instead I will put an expensive T. Hill Valve and also a regulator in it. The gun I want is probably an HW110 in .177, so the .25 gets put on the back burner for now. I dont shoot the quarter bore very much, the odd raccoon here and there. I saw a you tube on how to disassemble the Avenger and its not the gun I thought it was. The receiver has a plastic fairing on it, and the scope rail is bolted on. The receiver looks like a component for a HVAC system or maybe a Johnson controls pneumatic part. Its very different than the Mrod design. I like my bikes naked, and my guns too!
There was a time when the Guvamint would buy $700. toilet seats; hope those days are over.
Rob
1stblue,
Rob did you see that on 60 Minutes? The rest of the story was about toilet seat COVERS! The story was actually about the entire Head installation on the P-3 aircraft. That Head (bathroom for you Landlubbers) in the P-3 was built to ensure no acids or liquids of any kind could be introduced onto the electrical, hydraulic, and control cables housed directly under the Deck (floor for you Landlubbers) that could put the entire mission, multimillion dollar aircraft, and crew at risk!
Yes, the “Guvamint” wastes a great deal of money but not in this particular instance. I can, however, find you numerous other cases that will be much closer to the truth at the Dept of Health & Human Services but then the Liberal media types won’t be very happy with you ;^)
shootski
Yes, and the one about the sgt. York air defense gun. And the one about Oliver North and Abscam,
this country is very rich with both liberal and conservative POV. It has money to burn. I have always said a guvamint contract is a gold mine, but health and human services is a drop in the bucket compared to military spending. I just wish when the country borrows and then passes on debt that the interest is free.
I get my 1st shot wednsday, I wonder how much we had to pay for it.
Rob
1stblue
Rob wrote, “health and human services is a drop in the bucket compared to military spending.”
Please check out the actual budgets for 2020:
“87.1 billion in discretionary budget authority and $1.2 trillion in mandatory funding for HHS.
The budget funds five branches of the U.S. military: the Army, Marine Corps, Navy, Air Force and Space Force. For Fiscal Year 2020 (FY2020), the Department of Defense’s budget authority is approximately $721.5 billion. That amount includes paying the retirement of war fighters, many whom wear the Purple Heart.
Please get your facts checked before you blow smoke provided by the media.
shootski
BB,
I remember the VAX 11-780 – we had enough of them at Mitel that it took most of the character names from the Tolkien books to name them all, I worked on “Gandalf” along with 60 other user’s. 🙂
Yup, the VAXs were awesome machines in their time… 650,000$, size of a refrigerator, required a special climate controlled room and power source, 1 mip and 8 Meg of RAM. Awesome until you compare it to a 200$ cellphone which has one user, is several orders of magnitude more powerful and fits in a pocket. LOL!
Seeing different approaches to our airgun addictions. My approach is to (carefully research and) buy an airgun for each the specific disciplines that interest me (plinking, pesting, target and hunting – pretty much in that order).
Second hand is OK but I usually buy the best I can afford/justify new. Being a fisherman and bow hunter I have the patience to wait until I have saved enough pennies to buy what I want. Took me over 30 years to get my FWB 300, lots of patience, LOL!
Saving money at any expense? I am normally frugal in my purchasing but not when it comes to airguns. 🙂
Hank
Vana2,
I can still remember the day we transition from our IBM-360 to our two “little” DEC VAX PDP 11/70s at the Squadron.
I have been enjoying finding my MER with the ASP20 in .177 and can’t wait to see if the .22 is really smoother shooting as Ed and B.B. claim!
shootski
Shootski,
Good that you are getting some trigger time!
I’ve done a bit of plinking but the weather has been wet, windy and cold for the most part. They are forecasting snow for tomorrow. Just as well because I am busy with a couple of projects that need to be finished.
Hank
G
Vana2,
Yea pesky projects always get in the way! This early Spring weather has got me doing a hog pull (English Ivy) removal from the backyard. I use a propane flamethrower to singe the leaves and then apply an organic mixture that goes right to the roots. So far it seems to be working in the areas I have treated. Unfortunately you still need to pull the surface vines!
My .22 is scheduled for delivery tomorrow and rain is forecast. I’ll be inspecting the bore and then cleaning. I will also check the scope with a LASER boresighter and a target I have already placed at 35 yards. I can do that from a widow and keep dry even if it is raining. I figure if i’m shooting the right pellet 15.5-16 grains according to B.B. I will be sighted in before I ever shoot a pellet. I’m getting great arm and upper body exercise with cocking this break-barrel!
We had a rotten almost snowless winter and travel out West to the SkiShed was just not in the cards. Saddly the nearest local resorts that had snow were outside of day trip range. My skis still have their Summer storage wax on them from last year. Fortunately I had my drysuit and kayak otherwise I would have gone crazy this Winter.
Good luck and get those projects done!
shootski
Glad you are getting a .22 ASP20 Shootski!
I was interested in getting one of those but with the built-in moderator they aren’t available in Canada and Sig wasn’t releasing a stripped down version.
Curious, please let me know what you think of it.
Slugs and long range shooting are the main items on the airgun agenda this year. That will be an interesting journey!
Take care!
Hank
Vana2,
You will have a blast (pun intended) shooting bullets (slugs) at distance with your FX! From what i know about you it will be systematic in approach and that is the key. I bet you get past 150 if you can find the space to do it. I look forward to your reports on the endevour.
I’m going to do the direct compare and contrast on the .177 and the .22 ASP20. That will be fun!
Be Well,
shootski
Vana2,
I forgot one item in my reply; our radio call sign was Ranger (number) but we didn’t officially name our computers…we did however call them unspeakable names from time to time! Our best event was having Captain (later Admiral) Grace Hopper come and work with us getting some of her famous BUGS out of our system.
shootski
Vana2/Hank,
That story of waiting 30 years for a FWB300s is inspiring. It will be another 20 years before I can match it. There are probably only a handful of those in these islands and I know the location of 2 of them. Just have to save my money and wait patiently.
Siraniko
This is a good blog topic.
A reminder to veteran airgunners and experienced advice to newbies that buying the cheapest is very expensive in the long run. Lots of folks have learned the life lesson that in many instances paying for quality once is more frugal than being forced to buy the cheaper version over and over since it doesn’t last.
This is especially true with airguns when you factor in the resale value of a quality airgun vs a cheap airgun that has minimal accuracy, bad trigger, poor ergonomics, etc., that doesn’t have a market in the airgun community although they can be sold as boat anchors.
Lots of folks ask for advice on what airgun to buy. That’s a good starting point as long as the person giving the advice is knowledgeable and experienced. Another consideration should be how long has that model been around and are parts available for it. For example, parts are still available for Weihrauch airguns that were made 50 years ago.
BB and all.
I have had my Gamo Cf-s for 2 and 3/12 years to date. I have bought a new seal, a gas ram I don’t use and a new scope. All up about 200 + 80 + 190 = 470 NZD. No other air rifles were bought during this time. oh add 40 for the German diopter sight. and $20 for the Tasco 4×32. To date I have wrung as much as I can out of the thing. Maybe I can get more? Who knows. I looked at other rifles and thought, oooh aaaah then went back to my gamo and thought: old AND gold. so it’s no looker, it’s trigger is mashed potato. I have put at least 2K pellets through it. Not stopping any time soon. you can keep your FX’s , DayStates, AirArms, Weirauches and Anschutz etc. How much of one of those would I get for $200 nzd ? ( OK let me have the sproinger trigger group for $50… ) My idea is to squeeze as much experience as I can out of my single rifle and to get as good as the thing will let me. So far I have given my darndest! but wait there is more! the bottom line is that I actually decided the gamo was the ticket for me, affordable, underlever, easy to get and and good seals are cheap. I did the research and I doubt I will ever sell it. Internally it is A+, not a burr in sight ( it was full of burrs when I got it ) . Slap it into a conventional wood stock and it’s a looker. Anyone buying a flash rifle would never consider my gamo as a viable option, but at the range I am creeping up on the really really really expensive shooters. and you can only earn that feeling. It’s not for sale, on sale or disappearing out the door. Worth every dollar! : – ) Robert.
“My idea is to squeeze as much experience as I can out of my single rifle and to get as good as the thing will let me.”
RobertA, that’s exactly what I did with my first springer (an RWS 45 in .177 caliber).
To quote Jeremiah Johnson (from the movie of the same name), “Sound wisdom.”
Happy shooting to you. =>
Take care,
dave
Davemyster,
Thank you! I think with this gun so far shooting is almost equal to work I have done to date on it. Best dodge so far is sticking small bits of fine carborundum paper to the end of my finger with spit to polish off the burs on the breech ( yes there were burrs there… of all the places …darn. ) . If you just do it so the wet-n-dry paper sticks really well. Will look up the movie! Thank you. Robert.
“Will look up the movie!”
It’s an old classic from 1972; no air rifles, but it features Hawken percussion rifles.
It’s the movie that made me get a Hawken (replica). LOL =>
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0068762/
The Davemyster,
Ah, it’s that movie. Ah ha. I was a wee man in Scotland when it was made! Looks like they would have had fun making it. Real snow even! ( instead tons of Epsom salts…) . It is a new day, the garage is calling to me. Wood, metal, saws, drills… each vying for my attention! Robert.
Just want to let everyone know that on Sig Sauer’s site they have the ASP20 in stock both in wood and synthetic but only in the scope combo package. I just ordered the synthetic combo.
oldradioguy,
Cool!~ Thanks for the info.
BB
B.B.,
I am not shilling for SIG!
shootski
B.B.,
Great report today, but you are definitely “preachin’ to the choir” here!
I had an awesome HW30S (in Beeman R7 flavor), got stupid and sold it.
A few years ago, I finally replaced it with a new HW30S.
There sits one of my favorite plinkers, right underneath one of my favorite Bible verses (Jeremiah 29:11).
Ah, the joy I get from looking at them both.
And thanks to PA’s buy 3 get one free deal, I’ve got thousands of pellets for that little rifle…Praise the Lord! =>
Enjoying my reading time here (as always),
dave
Dave,
You have no idea of how timely your comment was! I bought an HW 30S today! I’m finally taking the advice all you guys have been giving me.
BB
BB
Thinking you will be happy with that Weihrauch. Mine is so smooth I haven’t even touched it with TIAT! Maybe you’ll test it for us while discovering its favorite pellets.
Deck
Yeah, Deck; mine is so smooth I haven’t touched it either!
B.B., great for you; you’re gonna love it! =>