by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Crosman Challenger PCP.
Edge Part 1
Edge Part 2
Edge Part 3
Edge Part 4
Edge Part 5
AirForce Edge 10-meter target rifle: Part 1
AirForce Edge 10-meter target rifle: Part 2
AirForce Edge 10-meter target rifle: Part 3
AirForce Edge 10-meter target rifle: Part 4
AirForce Edge 10-meter target rifle: Part 5
AirForce Edge 10-meter target rifle: Part 6
This report covers:
- History — Crosman Challenger 2000
- CH2000
- NRA
- Whaddaya do?
- Description
- Trigger
- Comments???
- Adjustable power
- Summary
- History — Crosman Challenger 2000
I put this report in the historical section because the Crosman Challenger PCP has had a short but interesting history. In the year 2000 Crosman introduced the Challenger 2000. It looked like a target rifle but was not as sophisticated as the rifle we are reviewing in this report. The closest I can come to a description was it was a CO2-powered bolt action rifle with target sights. It came with a composite stock in colors of gray, blue, dark blue, gloss black, red, and silver. Though it had target sights, the trigger was heavy and creepy and the best you could hope for was ten pellets in about 3/4-inch at 10 meters. The velocity was rated at 485 f.p.s. The buttplate and cheekpiece were both adjustable.
The Challenger 2000 had a T-shaped cocking handle with a locking latch on the left side. It was similar to an AR-15 cocking handle and unlocked as it was pulled back. It was very hard to cock!
And the Benjamin barrel was attached to the reservoir. That’s something no target shooter wants!
CH2000
The Challenger 2000 was discontinued in 2001, replaced by the model CH2000 that was introduced that year. It also had the ambidextrous T-shaped cocking knob that resembles the one on the current Challenger PCP — but the locking latch on the left side was elimimnated. This model was also powered by CO2 and rated at 485 f.p.s.
This model lasted until the year 2009, but before I tell you what came next I need to remind you of some related history that you probably know if you are a regular reader.
NRA
The NRA used to hold an airgun breakfast at the SHOT Show for members of the airgun industry. One year early in the millennium they stunned us all by telling us about their NRA Junior Marksmanship program. The NRA told the airgunning world that over a million junior shooters compete each year in a multi-tiered national competition that involves over 74,000 different teams from around the nation. Well — pour the bucket of blood into the shark-infested waters and watch what happens!
I’m sure that Daisy, who up to this point had supplied ALL the target rifles to these junior marksmanship programs, was thrilled at the possibility of competition from the rest of the world! It took years to sort it all out and by then only two new companies decided to play. We have already looked extensively at the AirForce Edge that came from one of them; now we switch over to the Crosman Challenger PCP.
When did this NRA briefing take place? I forget, but let’s call it 2006. AirForce was faced with a clean sheet of paper because they had nothing like a target rifle but Crosman was already playing around with an airgun that looked like a target rifle. And Ed Schultz was their lead engineer, so they knew what they were doing. Those were the heady days of success at Crosman with the Benjamin Discovery, followed by the ten times bigger success of the Benjamin Marauder. Things were a’ poppin’ at Crosman and they wanted their share of this huge previously unknown market!
Whaddaya do?
So, you’re at Crosman and you want to build a target rifle for juniors. All of us reading this are sitting on our comfortable couches 12-15 years later with nothing at risk, so of course we know exactly what to do. Crosman, who was owned at the time by a penny-pinching investment group with a board of directors that watched everything, had to guess right the first time, because when people guess wrong they can get fired.
I am going to fast-forward you through all the decisions they made and show you how success looks as it’s unfolding.
First — they already had a target-looking air rifle with a synthetic stock that had an adjustable cheekpiece and buttplate. So that part was done!
Second — they already had target sights. No change needed there.
Third — they had a good ambidextrous cocking handle, and the action was easy to cock. Keep it!
Fourth — they were using CO2 to power their target rifle. That’s BAD, for reasons all of you should know by now. CO2 is not consistent enough — especially when we know that precharged pneumatics are better (more consistent, shot-to-shot). Keep the DESIGN of CO2 (a tubular reservoir under the barrel) but make it from aluminum, strong enough to hold 3,000 psi air! Forget the “Dual Fuel” marketing concept. It’s a cutesy slogan but target shooters don’t care. CO2 IS NOT for shooting in competition — not in this millenium. You can take that from someone who used to do it! If you just want to hit Necco wafters at 20 feet, CO2 is fine. If you want to hit the ten-ring at 10 meters, it’s not. Remember — this rifle is for one million junior marksmanship shooters and their coaches — not Buba at the box store!
Fifth — the trigger HAS to be good. The rules say 1.5 lbs. or more, so make it crisp and as close to that release weight as possible.
Sixth — get rid of the home-grown barrel and install one from Lothar Walther. Not only will it probably be more accurate — you’ll also get a super sales push from having it! Target shooters don’t know much about the technical side of airguns, as a rule. But they know names like Lothar Walther.
Seventh — build it for a price. The NRA would tell you what that could be, once they got their draconian rules committee up to speed, but you just charge on ahead and then figure out how to do it for a lot less than you need, once they have made up their minds.
Challenger 2009
Crosman did each and every one of those things, and in 2009 they launched their model CH2009, which at the time they called the Challenger 2009. A few years later they realized that the years change over time and they renamed it the the Challenger PCP. That’s the rifle I am testing for you.
Description
The Challenger PCP is a three position (prone, kneeling, standing) 10-meter target rifle made for junior marksmanship competition. It is a precharged pneumatic (PCP) that fills to 2,000 psi — yes, you read that right — just 2,000 psi! Crosman still maintains the “dual fuel” principal and the pressure gauge is even calibrated for CO2 — which is a joke because CO2 maintains its pressure until the last of the liquid is gone, then the pressure drops like a rock. It is not in vogue in competition today.
The gauge reads either air or CO2. The green area for CO2 is small because it’s either at pressure or not — there is no gradual decline of pressure. The gauge actually tells you which gas is in the rifle.
The rifle I’m testing weighs 6 lbs. 12 oz. The NRA weight limit is 7.5 lbs. The Challenger is 40 inches long overall, with a 12.5-inch length of pull. That was measured with the adjustable buttplate installed. It can be removed for wee teeny children, and I have seen little 8-year-old girls mastering this rifle like pros. The Lothar Walther barrel is just shy of 24-inches long.
Trigger
The trigger is 2-stage and adjustable. It is a Marauder trigger, and Crosman could not have done a wiser thing! They are in direct competition with AirForce Airguns with this one and the Edge has many features the Challenger doesn’t offer. But the trigger on this one is the best — hands down!
Comments???
I read the questions and answers on the Pyramyd AIR website for the Challenger and one really surprised me. Here is is, as written.
“And does it not come in .22 cal? If it does come in .22 or .25 why is it only showing the .177cal ?”
Indeed! And why don’t NASCAR racers have 4-cylinder engines? They would certainly get better milage.
The Challenger PCP only comes in .177 caliber because the rules only allow .177 caliber pellets in matches. All the scoring systems are geared to that one caliber and to the use of wadcutter pellets.
There is an international rail (3/8″) under the forearm so all accessories that are allowed by the rules can be used.
Adjustable power
Crosman gives you the ability to adjust BOTH the hammer spring tension and the length of the hammer stroke! This allows for fine-tuning the velocity AND the shot count for optimum results.
The knurled knob adjusts hammer string tension and the 1/8-inch Allen screw adjusts the hammer stroke.
When you unpack the rifle Crosman says it should shoot at around 530 f.p.s. That’s faster than the 485 f.p.s. the CO2 models achieved and everything I’m about to say applies to the gun running on high pressure air (up to 2,000 psi). Crosman says you’ll get about 70 good shots at that velocity. I tested the rifle back in 2009 when it first came out and it was shooting 550-568 f.p.s. with Gamo Match pellets. I got 72 shots within that 18 f.p.s. spread.
Then I adjusted the hammer spring and hammer stroke length and got 116 shots that averaged 545 f.p.s. The spread for that string was 29 f.p.s. I like it so much that I will rely on this setting because I’m not touching this adjustment again! I will, however, test the velocity of several pellets for you in Part 2.
Summary
So in the Challenger PCP we have a target air rifle that’s still available, though I have put Part 1 into the historical section for this first report. I have also linked to all the Edge reports we just finished so you can check between guns if you like. This is going to be interesting!
Good morning sir, pyramid air is now shipping air rifles to india but they are charging to much. Few months before i baught crossman challenger from a local club i also bought hand pump to fill the rifle but when i fill the reserviour to 2000 psi it gives only 15 shots & also when i stored rifle all the air escapes overnight . So when i asked about this problem seller told me that air filled from hand pump only increase the pressure in tank & should be used immidietly .rifle holds air only when filled from scuba tank is this answer is correct.since this rifle is from club so the fps is about 500 -520.
Mahesh,
The seals need to be replaced. Your hand pump should do just fine. Maybe he wants to sell you a scuba tank outfit?
Mahesh,
The seller lied to you. That airgun should store air for years regardless of how it was put in. You should try to put some silicone chamber oil into the gun. Put it into the fill port before the pump hose is attached. It may take several tries but that should clean and condition the seals in your airgun.
B.B.
BB,
Oh yea!,…. that too! 😉 Maybe after looking for some obvious leaks first though,… eh? 🙂
Looking forwards to more reports.
Chris
BB,
Could the striker be adjusted so far in that it is resting on the valve stem and letting air leak through the valve ever so slowly (while the rifle is not cocked and at rest)?
Chris
Chris,
That is possible, but more likely the seller lied. “No, no, no, the hand pump will not do. Buy this scuba tank outfit from me also. This will work.”
BB didnt the cocking piece have some stupid ball bearing that gave problems with it falling or something like that. did they fix that in the newer models?
mildot52,
I don’t remember that but I remember the first Challenger 2000 being hard to cock. But my writeup doesn’t agree.
B.B.
Mildot
Yes they did. Well the one I had did anyway.
I remember being on a forum where page after page was about the trouble with the tiny ball bearing falling out. I wonder if they fixed it in the new models
Mildot
Don’t know. And I bought mine used. So don’t know how old it was. It seemed like it was new. Looked like how it would if it came out of the box new.
Mahesh,
Have you tried simple stuff like putting a little soapy water at the fill nipple (it will blow bubbles)? It could leak at the nipple port, or where the nipple screws in, or where the tube end cap screws in. You may take the action out of the rifle and access some further areas,…. like where the tube screws into the action.
Another trick that people use is to put a balloon on the end of the barrel (it will blow up) if leaking through the valve and out the transfer port.
Where the gauge screws into the tube could be another leak area and it could be where the gauge screws in,…. or,.. through the gauge itself (use soapy water test).
Those are simple things you can do. You probably just have a simple o-ring leak somewhere. As you can see from the report, you should be getting 70+ shots per fill. At that rate of leak,.. I would think that you could almost hear? a leak if in a real quiet room. Maybe use something like a paper towel roll (inner cardboard tube) held to your ear to focus sound?
Stay in touch and keep us posted as to how you get along.
Chris
Mahesh,
As BB has pointed out, silicone chamber oil can help. This works great to recondition o rings. DO NOT USE ANY PETROLEUM BASED OIL AS THIS WILL EXPLODE!
RR,
I think there is more than a few lubricant products out there that “contain” silicone and labeled as such,… but also contain petrol products (that would be explosive) as you mentioned.
I could see someone new possibility getting tripped up on that. 100% pure silicone oil only!
By the way,… with silicone grease,.. you can get some dielectric silicone grease at the local hardware for a silicone grease application. Do you know of any ((commonly)) sold product that is pure silicone oil?
Chris
Chris,
I do not know of any, but I have not had to look for any. I have a couple of good sized bottles of silicone oil.
Pyramyd AIR sells all kinds of silicone oil.
For silicone grease I just go to the local dive shop. For almost nothing I can buy silicone grease enough to last me quite a few years.
Another area that the rifle might be leaking is around the air gage hole. If construction is similar to the Marauder, the gage screws into an aluminum assembly inside the air storage tube. That assembly is sealed by two O-rings at either end of the assembly inside the air storage tube. If one or both of those O-rings are bad, it will allow air to leak past to the hole in the tube where the air gage screws into that aluminum assembly. Soapy water will tell you where it’s leaking from or, a good ear will tell you,
Fred formerly of the DPRoNJ now Happily in GA
Mahesh,
From the reviews on the Challenger at:
/product-all-reviews/m/crosman-challenger-pcp-co2-rifle-open-sights/1925
By Keith from USA on 2014-01-14
“Mine leaked air out of the barrel when I first tried to pump it up. Customer service (when they opened) quickly told me it’s a simple problem to fix: Fill with high pressure air from a tank. Not having one, I slapped the buttstock and pumped some air with the gun cocked. Gun works fine now.”
Don
Mahesh, my friend, you’re famous now!
/blog/2020/07/bbs-bag-of-tricks/
🙂
BB,
I have never shot one of these, but after shooting the Edge for so long I do not know if I could. I do not think it would “feel” right.
I like the hammer adjustment setup on this. I am sure it would fit a Discovery, Maximus, Fortitude. I wonder if they would benefit from a hammer stroke adjustment?
B.B.
How can all the airgun manufacturers NOT know about the NRA Junior Marksmanship program?
Seems management was asleep at the wheel and all should be fired!
What is wrong with the Daisy 853/953? FWB 300?
-Y
Yogi ,
For 3P Sport there are rules restricting size, weight, cost, etc.
Yogi,
IMHO there is NOTHING wrong with the FWB 300 – a heavily biased opinion as it is my favorite springer 🙂
Think that all the 300 models are over the weight 7.5 pound limit and being a manually cocked rifle it would not compare to the Challenger PCP which is (of course) a PCP.
Hank
Hank,
Yes — even the youth model 300 weighs well over 9 pounds.
B.B.
B.B.
Nice bit of history on an interesting rifle, I’m looking forward to the rest of the report.
I was a bit surprised at the price-point, expected $500ish, guess that the LW barrel adds a lot to the parts costs. Know that a LW barrel has a lot of sales appeal (to those who are familiar with their reputation) but offering a lower priced model featuring their own home-grown barrel might appeal to a lot of people who are just testing the target shooting waters. A separately available LW barrel could be offered as an upgrade. My Maximus barrels (I have .177 & .22) both shoot very well and should be more than adequate for aspiring target shooters. …Just an idea.
Was thinking about your comment: “with a board of directors that watched everything, had to guess right the first time, because when people guess wrong they can get fired”. Too bad we couldn’t fire politicians more easily – some of the local ones are more more interested in their personal agendas (and staying in power) than representing their constituents.
Happy Monday all!
Hank
Hank,
Now Crosman can make barrels, then they couldn’t. Cost?
RR,
Ah, yes. Was forgetting the time-frame.
So, maybe a Challenger 2020 with a Maximus barrel? I could just say a Maximus with a Challenger stock, sights and cocking system? One way or the other they should be able to reduce the price to make it more appealing to the backyard target shooters.
Hank
Hank,
If it were that easy. To me, flat out lying or mouthing words with zero intent of follow through,.. is far different than making an ill informed wrong “guess”. Maybe just me. Interesting times we are living in for sure.
Hope you are staying safe out on your little piece of wilderness. Doing fine here. A mama deer and 3 fawns have been coming around off and on. The fawns are growing quick. I guess 1-2 is common, with 2 being the most common,… with 3 being a rarity. About a month ago,… the fawns would bed down in VERY thick cover while mama went out. One even bedded down (inside) a hollow down tree. I was like 2 feet away when it made a quick attempt to bolt towards me and then stopped 1/2 way out. From what I read, a mama will insure her baby’s are bedded down in (different) areas and not all together. They seem to know my yard and surrounding woods are a safe place. I have stumbled upon them a few times now.
At any rate,… pretty cool to see up close and often. 1st time in 14 years. But of course,.. you have your own personal deer community coming around on regular basis! 🙂
Take care,…. Chris
Chris,
Don’t get me started about politicians LOL! They (generally) think that if they get elected that they have the whole countries blessing to do what ever they want (NOT!!). Their egos could not handle the idea that the only reason that they “won ” was that the other party was a worse choice and the voters took the lesser of the evils. I have always suggested that the line “NONE OF THE ABOVE ” be added to the ballot and if “NONE OF THE ABOVE ” wins then all the candidates and their election “promises ” be replaced with more suitable or better choices.
Yup, the deer are hanging around the house, nice to see even if they eat everything in sight! Autumn (our resident doe ) has been showing off her fawns.
One fawn is usual for very young or old does, two is typical and three is seen occasionally..
You can tell a lot about how a deer is by watching the body language – especially the tail. If you wave the “all clear and safe” (hand at waist level, pointing down and waved side to side ) the deer will be more relaxed. Avoid a confrontational stance, instead face to the side and don’t stare, I usually ignore nervous deer and go about my business as if they are not there. It doesn’t take long before they accept you. Autumn has a 10 foot comfort zone, most of the other locals are 25 to 35 feet.
Fun to interact with them.
Hank
Hank,
“Yup, the deer are hanging around the house, nice to see even if they eat everything in sight!”,… LOL!
As I seem to recall,… you posted a pic once of your garden and it looked more like a high security prison with the high fence surrounding it. 🙂 Can’t say for sure,.. but pretty sure I might have seen razor barb atop and an electrification device in the pic. 😉
One of the fawns went to sniffing at one of my tomato plants as I was watching (a few weeks ago) and I knocked on the house window,… and off he/she went. Like 7′ away. Plants are just to the front of the porches,.. or in pots,.. on the porches. Mama likes the low hanging tree leaves and the babies prefer the grass and weeds at the wood’s edge.
Cherry tomatoes, Ghost peppers and Cayenne peppers are my usual line up for the summer. All are looking good and no signs of deer activity. Maybe they are not into the nightshade family of munchies? The rest of the veggies I buy at the store or local farmers markets if I can find what I want.
Chris
Chris,
You remember correctly – there is an 8 foot fence around the garden and the top is electrified to keep the raccoons from climbing in …a lot less stressful for all parties that way 🙂
The raccoons that persist in being a problem become fly tying materials.
We have a couple of those motion detecting water sprayers to protect the flowers and shrubs – they work well and are a convenient way to keep the deer away from those areas and water the plants at the same time.
Hank
Hank,
The part about the “electrification device” was completely made up!!!! LOL! That is funny! 😉
Hey,…. do what ya’ gotta’ do. Your growing season there is much shorter than Ohio,… if I were to guess.
Coons were wrecking havoc on the bird feeder,… but trimming back branches and running a 42′ cable between trees (feeder in middle) seems to have thwarted the masked bandits. Not sure they can traverse 21′ of 1/8″ plastic coated steel cable. Have yet to see a squirrel on the feeder,.. which is totally dumbfounding. Then again,… more than a few have been recently “relocated”.
Be well,……….. Chris
Hank,
Crosman has the same rifle with sights for sale for $200 less. I put one in my cart to see if a club-only restriction came up but it didn’t. Why Pyramyd is so high I don’t know.
B.B.
BB,
I have seen that on several of their airguns lately. PA is not the best deal in town anymore. I hate to, but they have forced me to shop around before I buy.
Last time I looked Challengers were about $200 less at Champions Choice. CC also sells a CZ version of the AA 200 for the same price. Out of curiosity, I did a search for Air Force Edges for sale on Scott Pilkington’s website Target Talks. I’ve never seen one for sale there and I’ve done several searches over the years. It doesn’t look like the Edge has as much stock adjustability as the Challenger and I wonder if that puts a lot of junior shooters and coaches off plus it’s Unconventional looks. Just an observation.
Brent
Brent,
People do not sell Edges. Period. Most people acquire used Edges through inheritance.
As far as stock adjustment, you would be very surprised at how much the Edge has. It can be adjusted to fit a tiny little pip squeak or stretched out to fit a pretty big man.
By the way, they also have a superb deal on the FWB Sport. Like, very tempting.
Brent,
The Edge is way more adjustable than the Chasllenger — not taking anythjing away from the Challenger.
B.B.
BB, I’m sorry for doing this, but instead of commenting on this truly brilliant Crosman, I’ll talk about my own problems!?
Since my 27 was gone, I’ve learned a lot about airguns. It was easy shooting a 27; I’d just ask for the cheapest box of pellets in store. Lately, my mind has been all over the place; endless factors are involved in the process. With 27, it was nothing more than a pellet jubilantly flying in the air; now, I have to think about a whole bunch of other essential details. I have to admit, I’m enjoying the challenge…
I don’t think 30, 35, 50, and 57 would satisfy my new aspirations at all. Therefore, I’ve made a new .177 wishlist: HW95, HW77K, and FWB Sport…
Any thoughts?
Diana grl,
My choice would be the 77K.
B.B.
77K, it is! TY!
Diana Grl,
No, no, no, no! No problems allowed today! Besides, you call that a problem?! Oh, boohoohoo! I messed up really bad and let my 27 get away. What do I do?! What do I do?!
What do you do?! Why you buy another airgun, what else do you do?! Get that 77K and some good quality pellets and start shooting like crazy! After a while you get back on here and tell us what you think about that 77K!
R.R.,
Wiseman say…
shootski
😀
I’ve discovered 77K; I don’t think I’ll miss the 27.
Now if you just happen to have a serious itch for a FWB Sport…
http://www.champchoice.com/store/Main.aspx?p=ItemDetailOptions&item=32998
Aah, just go ahead and get them both.
Nope.
B.B.,
I enjoyed your post on the Challenger PCP today having thought you had lost your way reporting on all the newish power plant airguns! I was also impressed by the Proof Reading…until I got to the last photograph caption: The knurled knob adjusts hammer string tension and the 1/8-inch Allen screw adjusts the hammer stroke. Now i understand that the Godfather of Airguns pulls all the strings in the World of Airgunning but i have never run across “hammer string tension” have i really missed that adjustment all these years?
All kidding aside, i think any program that gets more kids shooting is a boon to the country and our sport! It has my 110% support!
I also think we need to bring back BikeAthlon!
Go get’em Godfather!
shootski
Shootski,
Maybe they can bring that game over in England over here and start it up. I am referring to the one where the kids are running track and shooting airguns. Wears me out just thinking about it.
RidgeRunner,
They only get a little snow in the UK so it makes sense since Biathlon really is a little like running on skis with a rifle on your back. I had both my kids doing BikeAthlon with their Marksman 1790s when they were youngsters. They both still have them and have used TIAT to good effect on them!
I and they really have great affection for that breakbarrel! Can you believe that coming from the Ancient Practitioner of the Arts & Mysteries of the Dark Side!
shootski
Diana grl,
I have an HW30s, so does my girlfriend. Hers is a “stainless look”.
I also have an HW77k.
The 30s are great, light weight and highly accurate. Go to guns. Great for carrying all day in the woods. They work very good, out to their design limits.
The77k works great for me when I shoot off a shooting stick or bench. Hit a 3/4 inch shotgun shell out to 60 yrds. IF I do my part!
Standing= the 30s ,10meters to 35 yards.
Resting= the 77k , 10 meters to farther than I can!
Both are a lifetime guns.
Only gripe, 30s can feel a bit small to larger folks. The 77k can be a bit heavy for smaller folks.
The Godfather has spoken! Sage advice should listened to . I did and have two of some of the finest spring airguns ever made. Fun to own a legend!
My two cents.
Stay safe to all
77K! TY!
BB, Why doesn’t the NRA just use the international olympic standards regarding
design format for match rifles and pistols? There must be a governing body for the sport
as whole in terms of compitition, right? Sounds like the NRA wants their own league.
Anyway, I would love it if somebody could use old equipment like the Walther LGR
if they wanted to. I mean 60reps of 20 lbs or so, how many calories is that, a couple of fig newtons?
Not even. I would let the rules be more open regarding ‘obsolete’ equipment. I love a great upset when it comes to equipment.
Rob
1stblue,
Like you,.. I love it when an old buck can use something from the past and show the youngin’s “what’s up”?
Sure,.. they may fail,.. but it sure would be fun to see.
Chris
They should actually organize competitions for classic equipment only. It’d be so cool! Classic air gun category, only pre 70s or 60s or whatever. Maybe there is something like that around, I dunno.
What brand is the second rifle from the top, the wooden stock springer?
https://www.pomona-airguns.com/shop/pics/001.jpg
I’m still buying the HW77K – just asking!?
Looks like an older Diana 350.
https://www.airgundepot.com/diana-rws-350-magnum.html
You’re right; other than the stock, everything seems very similar… Good, I can sleep tonight!? TY!
What is different in the stocks?
You’re right again; stocks are the same as well. It’s a 350!
If the NRA really wants to encourage youth shooting programs, instead of Draconian rules,
how about spending some of that loot they have on Public indoor/outdoor airgun shooting
ranges, In urban/suburban settings, where there is allot of demand for safe recreational opportunities
like the shooting sports, but there are precious few places you can go, and they are not easy
to get to. I say airgun because of liability concerns, it seems like they might be a more
economical alternative to a firearms rated shooting facility. Or even some public pools, another healthy form of recreation. I know, wishfull thinking again.
R
B.B.,
I’m going to apologise to you in advance!
Some of ya’all occasionally don’t know what you are talking about! Not only the NRA but a great many other youth shooting programs still exist in this country. Many focus on air powered rifles and pistols!
https://www.google.com/search?q=youth+air+rifle+and+pistol+clubs
The list goes on and on and on!
So please don’t blow smoke…
shootski
Shootski,
Growing up in rural Ohio,… I never heard of any formalized shooting programs. I am sure Boy Scouts, 4H and school ROTC programs existed,.. but I never heard about any. If I had, I probably would have taken a keen interest. As I recall, it is not something that is advertised in papers or seen on TV. Never spoken of in school in the 70’s.
That said,… it is still no excuse. I just don’t think the average Joe citizen has ever been exposed to just what is out there,… thus the ignorance of what is. There may be pockets around the country where organized shooting is encouraged and popular,… but without looking (now easier than ever), I would be hard pressed to tell you of any. I do know of Camp Perry which is in Ohio, but really only became more aware after joining here as a mature adult. Of course,… anybody with an elder family member (already) involved, would be way ahead of anybody else with regards to awareness.
So yea, maybe there is a bit of an exposure problem. Kind of hard to grow/expand something if you just rely of people finding you. I am not sure “advertising” would be the correct term,…. but something like that.
Just a little perspective from someone who obviously has been living under a rock. 😉
Chris
Chris,
I grew up in rural Stow, Ohio and was trained to shoot by the NRA who had a formalized shooting program for kids. Before you got an Ohio hunting lisence they had a program to make sure you were safe in the field with a gun.
B.B.
BB,
As best I recall,.. I got a Savage 20ga./.22 over-under around the mid 70’s. I do not recall ever having to be instructed in any way,.. just get a license. Maybe things had changed from when you first got into it? Maybe it has changed back the other way? I do not know. I do think it is a good idea for youth. At the minimum,… someone that is already skilled, can have those skills verified.
Dad worked a lot then and I remember no formal instruction of any kind.
Chris
Chris USA,
You get a TWOFER response.
Hunter Education is required in some form in every US state i have hunted…there are exceptions and variations that are clearly spelled out in the literature on hunting laws and ordinances. The first time i saw the booklet (well before the Internet) was in a Sporting Goods sore when i was just a kid. It was right next to some 4-H, NRA, CMP, and VFW literature on youth shooting!!!
My request was simple:
Do Not blow smoke!
B.B. doesn’t!
And, if he gets something wrong he gets the right information for us and does it graciously.
Most all of the readership of B.B.’s blog are way gooder at not doing any Smoke Blowing than on any other forum on the internet! I think that is one of the biggest reasons we all like this Home on the internet that The Godfather of Airguns has created.
I hope it stays that way,
shootski
Shootski,
Not disagreeing with anything you said. My only point was that not everyone had the upbringing, youth experiences and exposures as some. My guess would be that the vast majority of people that have found their way to air gunning today,… have no idea how far it extends with regards to formal events.
Chris
Chris USA,
The society/media has changed to one unfriendly to introducing youth to shooting. There has always been a little of that in urban and suburban areas but after the JFK assassination the major shift was initiated. I think adult Airgunner’s need to stop doing it alone and start sharing the sport with at least one youth that isn’t a family member. Obviously sharing with other adults is okay but getting youth involved is the lifeblood of any sport. I know beside my family members, all shooters, i have introduced scores of youth to the shooting arts and will keep at it until I can’t shoot no more!
Give it a try. Talk to the parents of boys and girls from non shooting families and see if you can add a few to our numbers. Talk about the scholarships offered at major Universities! It works!
shootski