by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Sig ASP20 breakbarrel rifle.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
This report covers:
- The Whiskey3 reticle
- The test
- Couldn’t get the rifle to group!
- The double group
- Sandbag rest
- Wraith Ballistic Alloy pellets
- I can do this!
- Air Arms domes
- Air Arms Falcons
- Last group
- Summary
Today I start looking critically at the accuracy of the new Sig ASP20 breakbarrel rifle. Until now I have only shot 5-shot groups. They are okay for quick work but do not tell the whole story. Today I will shoot 10-shot groups and we will learn the accuracy of this new rifle with some precision. I won’t get into the statistical reason that 10 shots are better than 5, but here is a good bottom line — anybody can get lucky, and it is far easier to do it 5 times in a row than 10.
The Whiskey3 reticle
Before we get into this test report, reader Bimjo asked this.
“In a senior moment, I just remembered something I meant to ask in my last post- what does the Whiskey 3 reticle look like? I’ve looked all over the web and haven’t seen anyone describe it.”
That is a very good question, so I asked Sig for a picture. Ed Schultz sent me one he uses.
A representation of the Whiskey3 reticle.
This representation is not exact. The reticle lines are not heavy like you see here. But it is a good likeness. It is a duplex reticle with mil hashmarks along both lines.
The test
Today I shot from 25 yards off a sandbag rest using a variety of different holds that I’ll describe as we go. Normally I shoot in the morning when I’m fresh. Today, however, I shot in the afternoon right after lunch. That changed things, as I will describe.
Couldn’t get the rifle to group!
I shot about 40 shots and could not seem to keep them, together. Group after group was opened by what I thought was a wild shot. I shot the Air Arms pellets that did so well in the last test. But like I said — anyone can get lucky 5 times. So I wondered if I had been wrong about the accuracy. Or, had the barrel become dirty with the few shots fired in the last test?
The double group
Then it happened. I had an “ah-ha” moment that told me what was probably happening. If I hadn’t spent the better part of 6 months on the rifle range a few years ago with my pal, Otho, dealing with this same thing, it would have slipped past me, but this was something I knew only too well — the dreaded double group!
It’s important to understand that by the time I discovered this I had already fired the rifle 40 times at least. So I was very warmed up. I was almost worn out! However, when what I am about to show you happened, I thought I knew exactly what caused it and also how to deal with it.
This target shows two distinct “groups.” The bottom one has at least 5 shots in it and the top has at least 3.
Ever shoot a target like that? Know what causes it? Subtle variations in your hold cause small variations in the harmonics of the gun — mostly in the barrel. The pellets are trying to go to the same place, but they leave the muzzle at different points.
BY THE WAY — no statistics are required!! This is an excellent example of why 5 shots do not represent what the rifle is doing as well as 10.
The double group told me I wasn’t taking enough care in how the rifle was rested before each shot. It was just after lunch and I was digesting my food, so my body wasn’t as calm as it normally is. But knowing that, I could fix it.
Sandbag rest
I began by resting the rifle directly on the sandbag. The last test I did in Part 6 suggested this rifle isn’t as accurate rested on a sandbag as it is when held by an artillery hold. But I had just shot the rifle 40 times with the artillery hold and accomplished nothing. At least the sandbag would be stable. As long as I put the forearm in the same place each time, it should give me good groups.
Wraith Ballistic Alloy pellets
Ed Schultz had sent me a tin of Wraith Ballistic Alloy pellets to try because he has found them to be quite accurate in the ASP20. I had tried Wraith Lead pellets previously, but didn’t find them as accurate as some others.
I had tried the Wraith alloy pellets in the 40 shots previously this day, but now I wanted to give them the absolute best chance for success. I discovered they want to be seated deep in the breech, so I used a handy ballpoint pen to seat each pellet. This time, off a sandbag rest, 10 Wraith alloy pellets went into 0.438-inches at 25 yards. The group is reasonably round and good-looking, and it told me all I needed to know. The ASP20 is still very accurate. Care must be given to how it is held or rested before each shot.
Ten Wraith Ballistic Alloy pellets went into 0.438-inches at 25 yards when the ASP20 was rested directly on the bag and the pellets were seated deep.
I can do this!
That nice group actually woke me up — especially after shooting the double group and knowing what the problem was. If the gun can shoot that well, I certainly can, too. Enough of this resting on the bag stuff. It was time to use the artillery hold the way it was meant to be used! I rested the forearm on my off hand right under the start of the cocking slot. That way I knew I could find the same place, time after time.
Air Arms domes
Next up were some 16-grain Air Arms domes. These were the pellets that gave me that stunning 5-shot group that measured 0.072-inches between centers in Part 6. I have always said that a 10-shot group should be about 40 percent larger than 5 shots with the same pellet, but that only comes out to 0.1008-inches in this case. How close could I come to that?
This time 10 shots made a 0.416-inch group at 25 yards. So, there probably was a lot of luck in the smaller 5-shot group. But today’s group is still great!
Using the artillery hold, 10 Air Arms domes went into 0.416-inches at 25 yards.
Air Arms Falcons
N ext I tried 10 Air Arms Falcon pellets — also using the artillery hold. Ed Schultz told me the rifle likes pellets in the 14.5 to 16-grain range and Falcons are only 13.43-grains, so let’s see what they can do.
Ten Falcons went into 0.463-inches at 25 yards. It was a good group, but the largest of the test.
Ten Air Arms Falcon pellets went into 0.463-inches at 25 yards.
Last group
I was tired at this point. I had now shot 70 rounds with concentration and that takes a lot out of me. But there was one more thing I wanted to see. According to my results, a group of Wraith Ballistic Alloy pellets shot with the artillery hold should be slightly smaller than the group I got resting the rifle directly on the bag. So, I gave it a go.
As I watched this group grow ever-so-slowly, my nerves began to fray. Could I hold on for 10 good shots? Well, after shot number 6, I never saw the group size increase. This time 10 pellets went into 0.324-inches at 25 yards. The group is almost perfectly round — telling me two things for certain. First — the artillery hold I have described in this report is the best way to shoot this rifle and second, the Wraith Ballistic Alloy pellet is the most accurate one I have tested so far.
Ten Wraith alloy pellets shot with the artillery hold at 25 yards went into this nice round 0.324-inch group.
Summary
I’m not finished testing the ASP20, but I will give it a break for awhile. In summary I have to say the following:
1. The ASP20 is the most accurate breakbarrel air rifle I have tested.
2. The Matchlite trigger, while not a match trigger, is the best American-made spring-piston sporting air rifle trigger ever.
3, The ASP20 cocks easier than any other spring-piston breakbarrel in its power class.
4. The keystone breech has no competition.
5. Sig knows how to rifle an airgun barrel.
6. If you are looking for a good sporting spring rifle you can’t do better than the ASP20. But that only holds true when you do your part.
BB has trained me well. I have been basically twiddling my thumbs waiting for the 10 shot groups. I am delighted to see the result, although the fact that even BB finds it hold sensitive is disheartening.
OT have we had the last test of the other really exciting gun, the PCP with pump? I thought there was going to be one that tested it without pumping between every shot. If we have I missed it.
Sean.
Sean,
I know I still need to test that other rifle at 50 yards and also with a PCP flil. But now I have the same rifle in .25 caliber, so there is more good stuff coming.
B.B.
B.B,
For clarification; when you say you held “right at the start of the cocking slot” that means as your off hand slides forward from the trigger guard just as you reach the cocking slot?
Is there a possibility for a Handstop at or near that point? Would it make sense if the ASP20 likes to be held right there ( by any shooter) for SIG to mold in some indicator, dimpling or Handstop?
I would be happy to do the testing for SIG! All they need to do is ship me an ASP20 in .22 rifle and WHISKEY3 scope and I will do the recruitment of lots of shooters of different body type, gender and abilities.
I’m violating a cardinal rule by volunteering…you know what I’m talking about!
Think of all the work documenting this massive undertaking!
shootski
shootski,
Yes, that is exactly where I hold my hand.
B.B.
What kind of bag was the bag? I am testing a Tack Driver bag now. I have had the basic Caldwell bag for years and it works with a hand on it. This bag is giving me results as good as my artillery hold with my r7, 97k, and a 350 so far.
Edw,
Mine is a privately made bag. About 14 inches long and filled with crushed walnut shells.
B.B.
B.B.,
Fine shooting there for sure. Quite the endorsement at the end as well. If I was in the market for a spring/gas ram,.. you would have sold me.
Good Day to one and all,…. Chris
BB,
Of course you are aware that you are making it extremely difficult for me not to ask one of these ladies to move in, are you not? Fortunately for me I am not in the market for another sproinger at this time. However, Sig Sauer and Pyramyd AIR may rest assured that after the release of the synthetic stock version I will likely change my mind.
Now the question arises, is this air rifle truly hold sensitive? I can recall the dreaded double group with my Gamo CFX. It was a superbly accurate air rifle, but was very hold sensitive. I could cause the pellet to hit the target in either hole by moving my thumb of my trigger hand. Mind you, I was not squeezing the grip. I was just repositioning my thumb.
RR,
This rifle isn’t nearly as hold sensitive as a Diana 34. But it does matter how you hold it.
B.B.
BB,
Thanks. I just wanted to bring this out. As anyone who has shot a sproinger should know, ALL sproingers are hold sensitive to a point, some not so much and some to the extreme.
One should approach shooting a sproinger like you would a beautiful lady on a first date. Take your time and learn about her, most especially if you think you want a lasting relationship with her.
RR,
Well said!
So, THAT’S what Im doing wrong! 😉
B.B.
BB,
Oh, I don’t know. It sounds like she has really warmed up to your touch. 😉
Tom.
Thanks for the great report. Are you planning to test other scopes, like the Hawke Airmax with this rifle. I would like to know if the there is any advantage to buying the kit Whiskey3 scope vs. other brands.
Lysander,
I hate to take the Whiskey3 off the rifle. It;s doing so well.
Here is what I think. If another scope is a good one it will be good on the ASP20, as well. I have a 4.5-14 Hawke that would be great, but it’s currently on my TX200 and I don’t intend taking it off.
B.B.
BB
This just hit me. Why are you worried about taking the scope off the asp.
If you take it off and put it back on that shouldn’t change the way the gun performs. Groups should still be the same. Maybe point of impact in relation to point of aim might change. But not group size.
Well unless you have a problem with the rings not holding secure.
I know what you mean you hate to mess with something that’s working. But really it shouldn’t affect group size if the scope mounts up securely.
GF1,
It’s like a tuned car. You don’t tear it down to see the condition of the valves. Or replace the transmission.
You don’t pull up the roses to see the condition of the roots. If it’s working, work it.
B.B.
BB
But you should still be able to take the scope off and put it back on like I mentioned above.
And yes people that race cars and such do pull engines apart to check condition even when they are running fine.
Now roses. That’s a bit different there.
A very interesting review and a fine new gas spring air rifle with very good accuracy.
I will not be adding it to my wish list as I like my older tech HW80K in .20
B.B.
How does the reticle of the Wiskey 3 compare to the Bugbuster you have used in other recent tests.Are the lines in one thicker than the other? They look like the same design.
Gerald
Gerald,
The Whiskey3 reticle is thinner than the older Bug Buster reticle and about the same thickness as the new 3-12 Bug Buster reticle. But that won’t mean anything unless someone has that scope at hand.
So let me say this. The Whiskey3 reticle is as thin as a hunter would want it, because you still need to pick it out against a dark background.
I have older target scopes with reticles so thin that can only be used on targets when the sun is shining on them. You don’t want that in an all-purpose scope.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks, that description clarifies the picture above quite a bit. I have the new 3-12 Bug Buster and I like it.
Gerald
BB,
The hashmarks on the representation of the Whiskey3 reticle look too spread out for my liking. Reminds me of the Bug Buster 3-9x32AO where the dots are spread out crazy wide.
More scope manufacturers should take a leaf out of BSA’s book and concentrate the dots/hashmarks where they are needed; in the centre of the pattern (example pictured).
Bob
If it was me designing a scope reticle I would have a 1/2 mildot reticle from the center all the way out to the edge of the sight picture. By that I mean dot dash.
I shoot my air guns long distance and in the wind. Sometimes I holdover to 5 mildots and 1-1/2 to 2 mildots on windage.
The reticle you show would be good for in close work. But not out at farther distances.
GF1,
How far do you shoot your airguns?
I currently have a BSA 4×32 with the reticle shown above mounted on my HW77k SE (pictured here though with the BSA 3-9×40 I had on it last year). I close zeroed it at 10m. The far zero is 50m and it requires one dot of holdunder at 25m.
I haven’t shot it at distances greater than 50m, but by my reckoning (with help of Chairgun) 5 dots of holdover, i.e. top edge of bottom post, should be good for 75m (82 yards).
Bob
I mostly shoot at 15-60 yards. But I do shoot out at 100 to 200 yards.
I have a modified .22 Maximus that is very happy shooting out at a 100+ yards with 18 grn. JSB’s. And then I have a .25 Condor SS that does real well out to 200 yards with JSB 33.95 grn. pellets.
And when I say well the Maximus will hit a 2 litre soda bottle all day long at a 100-125 yards. It’s getting around 2-1/2 inch and under 10 shot groups at a 100 yards. And the Condor SS will hit a gallon milk bottle at 200. If I move into 100 yards with the Condor SS it averages around 1-1/2 inches and under 10 shot groups.
Oh and I shoot at 4 magnification with my air guns. And just so you can do some math. The Condor SS is zeroed at 50 yards and the scope centerline to barrel centerline is 3-3/4 inches. The gun is shooting JSB 33.95’s at 940 fps. And I use a 1-1/4 to 1-1/2 mildot hold over at 100 yards.
The .22 Maximus is shooting at 780 with the JSB 18 grain pellets and it’s got a 1-1/2 inch scope hieght and it’s zeroed at 50 yards and I need around 4 to 4-1/2 mildot hold over at 100 yards.
And yep I use Chairgun too. But remember Chairgun is just a estimating tool. Real world shooting will tell the truth.
Oh, and in case anyone thinks a simple 4×32 scope is too little to do a fine air rifle like the HW77k justice, check out this empty .22lr box I was using as a plinking target at 50m (54.7 yds) recently.
As long as the cross hairs are fine enough, and your eye sight is good, you can aim small enough to shoot with precision at that distance with a humble 4×32. The small objective bell allows the use of low ring mounts, ensuring a proper cheek weld. There’s no need for a parallax adjustment ring either, as the scope is instantly in focus from 10m on out. It’s light weight too.
Some folks like to mount a Hubble space telescope on their air rifle, and good luck to them, but I’m happy to keep it simple 🙂
GF1,
Wow 200 yards with an airgun! I gotta make the leap across to the dark side and get me a pcp 🙂
Am glad to hear that you are a fan of low mag scopes too. I tried to post a follow up post about my BSA 4×32 a few minutes ago, but seem to have run into some technical problems when I tried to edit it.
As I was saying: in case anyone thinks a simple 4×32 scope is too little to do a fine air rifle like the HW77k justice, check out this empty .22lr box I was using as a plinking target at 50m (54.7 yds) recently. As long as the cross hairs are fine enough, and your eye sight is good, you can aim small enough to shoot with precision at that distance with a humble 4×32. The small objective bell allows the use of low ring mounts, ensuring a proper cheek weld. There’s no need for a parallax adjustment ring either, as the scope is instantly in focus from 10m on out. It’s light weight too. Some folks like to mount a Hubble space telescope on their air rifle, and good luck to them, but I’m happy to keep it simple 🙂
Bob
Get you a electric HPA compressor and you will really like pcp’s.
And yep for accuracy, power and ease of shooting you can’t beat a pcp.
For sure like the lower magnification shooting. Many reasons why once you spend some time and see what it does for you.
And I see your post that has the picture of a nice group shot at a .22 rimfire box. And don’t get me wrong. I like springers as well as pcp’s. But you should at least think about going to the darkside. I don’t think you will be disappointed if you do.
GF1,
I tried a pcp recently for the first time. A chap at the range was testing his Walther Dominator .22 (30 ft-lb version), but was disappointed with the accuracy achieved with the Walther and Stoeger pellets he was using. He invited me to try the rifle and the best 8 shot ctc groups I could get were approx. 1″ at 25m and 2″ at 50m.
I brought a selection of pellets with me the following week and found that the Dominator, despite being a German-made gun, gave even worse accuracy with RWS pellets (Superdomes and Hobby) – over 2″ groups at 25m. I then tried JSB Exacts and hey presto, 3/4″ ctc 8 shot groups at 50m! I was really impressed with the accuracy and power and the nice trigger. The shot count was poor though, only about 3 mags before the cylinder needed topping up. Having to unscrew and remove the cylinder in order to fill it each time is a drag too. I’m seriously considering getting a Walther Rotex RM8 Varmint pcp (picture below), 12 ft-lb version in .177 calibre. It has a cylinder which doesn’t need to be removed to fill it and gives over 100 shots per fill.
Bob
Good deal. Glad you got to try a pcp.
And yep the JSB and Air Arm pellets are good. That’s what I use in my guns. They are a little expensive. But if you want accuracy they usually deliver.
Yeah and I don’t like that unscrewing to fill a gun. In my opinion all pcp’s should use the Foster quick disconnect fittings. Definitely make things simpler. And that’s basically why I like shooting pcp’s. Simpler.
I have had the ASP20 for a month and have been following the blog. My experience is very similar. Barrel was just as dirty, but did not seem to affect accuracy. I also found the rifle has to be held consistently. I referred to your description of the artillery hold article several years ago and follow that as best I can with one exception. My sandbag resting surface is 4″ long. I balance the rifle on the bag to get a consistent location. I put a slick grocery bag over the leather sandbag to reduce friction and approximate what your fingers would do. I put my off hand under the rear lower edge of the stock to steady. I keep the butt off my shoulder and have to be consistent with the grip pressure and trigger. At 10 yards in the basement I can put AA 16g, JSB 15.89, and JSB 13.1 in the same hole. Saturday I shot 30 yards outside with light breeze. After a few practice shots to get consistent, I put 7 AA 16g in the same ragged hole. The gun is very pleasant to shoot, but you have to concentrate while shooting.
Tam,
Welcome to the blog.
Thanks for adding your comments about the ASP20. The only thing I could hope for is that someone who owns a .177 will also chime in.
B.B.
Bibi like to see that rifle shot at 40 yds.I got a new Walther LGU and shot a 3/8 group at 45 yds. it was PCP accurate. did not like breaking my position to work the underlever my friend who witnessed the group then shot one similar to mine bought the rifle. I got 2 FWB 300’s that shoot the same at 40 yds and so easy to cock.
Mildot52,
You are getting 10 shots into 0.375-inches at 40 yards? That is impressive. I would be good for eve 5 shots.
I will shoot this rifle at 50 yards.
B.B.
No BB it was 5 shots. did you ever test an LGU? mine was not even hold sensitive. even though you are right about a 10 shot group I feel with a somewhat powerful springer is that the effort that goes into cocking throws off your timing breathing coordination concentration and holding the rifle even on a bench especially an underlever when after it is fired it is like reloading a crossbow. it is like trying to serve in a tennis match with people yelling and throwing stuff at you lol. A PCP should always be tested 10 shots. Both my FWB’s shoot tiny groups up to 40 yds. one has a scope one has irons and I cant shoot better then the irons with the scope. in the scope you can see the pellet lobbing into the target . it is amazing it can shoot so well because it starts out a lot higher then falls in on an angle
Mildot52
I had a .22 caliber LGU. It was a very easy to shoot springer. And very accurate at 50 yards and out.
yes and I have heard the .177 LGU which I had was a little more accurate. I have not shot every springer made but I say it is almost impossible to have a better springer then the LGU with the power it had. not magnum power but good usable power. and I say the FWB 300’s are the greatest springers that could ever be made and the men that made them do not exist anymore. I do not hunt so the 2 FWB’s I have do everything the best that I want to do with a pellet gun. what kind of groups did you get at 50 yds? mine were like 3/4 inch 5 shots
Mildot52
Pretty much the same size groups. And yes the FWB 300’s are fine shooting guns.
Chris got the LGU from me and done some modding to it. I don’t remember if he got better than .750″ with it after he was done modding it. Maybe he’ll read this and comment.
modding an LGU?? that is sacrilege lol. that is like Miss Universe getting plastic surgery right after winning
Mildot52
I have gotten better at leaving well enough alone.
And I think that it’s like a person goes through phases. You know. Get something you haven’t owned before and wonder if you can make it get better results.
Then it’s also about how much work is involved. I think I’m starting to get lazy as I get older. 🙂
gun fun sounds like you are getting smarter
Mildot,
Added weight to the shroud/silencer and did a “yankee tune” on the trigger. I do not remember the groups since I sent all of the targets when I sold it to Kansas Heat. I (DO) know it gave the TX200 a constant run for the money and if I had to say,… the LGU won out more often than not. The TX did have Vortek HO kit in it. Both .22. Both,… fine, fine guns.
Chris
Mildot52
Maybe but I still think more like lazy.
Just don’t feel like messing with them that much anymore.
I just want them to stay together and enjoy shooting them.
Gunfun1
Did you ever own a TX or a HW97? If so, how would it compare to the LGU?
Ray
Ray,
I owned both in both in .22. The LGU had less power, but seemed more accurate than the TX 200. Really,… it was a toss up more often than not. Both are fine, fine air guns.
Chris
Ray
Yep a .177 and .22 caliber Tx and hw97.
The LGU was a nice solid built gun and was easy to shoot accurately. The Tx are very nice built guns. Fit and finnish is superb. Also they are very easy to work on. And to me a little more hold sensitive than the LGU but still very easy to shoot accurately.
And the hw97 are nice. But I would pick the Tx or LGU over the 97. But you won’t go wrong if you got all 3. Nice guns for sure.
BB give yourself a break and fire just 5 shot groups. you will need all you got at 50 yds to shoot a good group and you will do it with 5 shots. really looking forward to see that
Mildot52,
The Walther Werk in Ulm had quite a few women working on the production floor when I visited back in the late 1990s!
Also I agree B.B. should shoot five shot groups…as long as he does FIVE of them and then average the results! Otherwise for good measure, statistically, he should keep shooting TEN shoot groups.
He could also hire a young student or better yet a furloughed government employee to do his cocking for him! Lol.
LGU are selling new(ish) for about $600+ these days aren’t they? That’s at least 1/3 more than an ASP20 (even in wood) so you would expect it to typically shoot better. Then again you need to be a great shooter to print that kind of consistent group size at that range with an Airgun in .22cal.!
shootski
my LGU was .177 and was so easy to shoot not hold sensitive that the guy that was with me shot it the same as me and bought it. I had my GF shoot it who never shoots a one inch group at 45 yds. a few more of my friends did the same 1/2 to 3/4 5 shot groups. it was hard not to shoot that rifle well lol. all you had to do was lock it on the bull and squeeze the trigger. to me it was just like a PCP. if you look above Gun Fun said his LGU shot like mine. when the first came out I got mine for a little under 500 but I think I heard they do not make them?? is it true?
Mildot52,
Wish I knew how to lock it on the bull better…
Seems UMAREX has stopped having them built!
Walther GmbH. actually never built them.
Walther builds mostly PBs and in airguns has buildt mostly high end target PCPs for some years.
shootski
with a front bag and a rear bag situated properly on the bench it is not hard. if the rifle is accurate and set on the bags you just have to squeeze the trigger. my rifle was not hold sensitive so I shot it like a PB on a bench setup. the LGU and my 2 FWB 300’s were both shot that way
Mildot52,
My comment on locking in was more or less a stage whisper!
Sorry to make you explain!
I shoot from a Sinclair rest and rear bag when I sight in and work up a firearm or airgun new bullet and/or sighting system combination! The rest of the time I use a sling standing or prone and shoot at 5 bulls if I’m skiing Biathlon or shooting at vital zones if I’m hunting!
I do push ups or Burpees at the range to get my pulse and respiration rate up like in competition or when stalking…so locking in the bull for most of my live round shooting is the stuff of dreams.
shootski
when I shot high power with an MIA then an AR15 I had a good way of sitting where I could lock in and most of the time outshoot guys prone. I did OK standing but it is a waste of ammo lol. have to be in good shape to do what you are doing
Mildot52
They still make them. But looks like Pyramyd AIR only has the synthetic stock available. I know other air gun sites still have the wood stock available. Mine was a wood stock.
/product/walther-lgu-varmint-air-rifle?m=4075
BB,
“The ASP20 is the most accurate breakbarrel air rifle I have tested.”
Quite a statement, most especially when you take into account how many you have tested. The question in my mind is how does she compare to your old heart throb, the TX200 MK III?
RR,
The TX is still my heart throb. It doesn’t care how it is held.
That’s why I put the modifier, breakbarrel, into that statement.
B.B.
BB,
As I suspected. 😉
If anyone wants to try a different hold, I use kind of a cross between an artillery and shooting directly off the bag.
I use the bag but support part of the weight with the palm of my hand right behind the bag. I seem to get the stability of the bag and the free movement of an artillery hold.
David Enoch
Once again, fine shooting Mr. B.B. I will try some lead free ammo, the Wraith looks like a Barracuda to me.
I worry they will take the lead ammo away. Please let me know if I need to stockpile it. The R10 gets a new trigger shoe this weekend and a PG2 kit. It has dust on it from sitting around. Does anyone scout scope their breakbarrel?
Can the scope be mounted on the breech block with an adapter? I wont be puttin a big high mag scope on ‘er.
The ASP looks like a fine rifle to me, my hands are full right now.
Rob
Rob,
Putting a scout scope on a breakbarrel? I have never heard of it being done.
B.B.
I wonder how a dot sight would do on the gun. Then we wouldn’t have to think about the ballistic reticle stuff with the Whiskey scope.
And so the asp is hold sensitive. I wonder when we will start seeing some videos or reports of people tuning the asp. You know it’s coming.
And yes I know it’s a gas piston. I’m talking put a spring in it. I always liked the idea of a spring more than a gas piston. Much more can be done.
GF1,
A dot sight has exactly the same ballistic problems as a scope. The pellet only goes to the dot at certain distances. Same for open sights for that matter.
B.B.
BB
True about the dot sight or open sight. But it seems that the hold offs aren’t as magnified like with a scope. Same like with scope shake as magnification goes up. Less noticable at lower magnification.
That’s why I like scope shooting at lower magnification too.
Maybe that would be a good test to do with the asp too. I mentioned before to shoot a dot sight at 10 yard increments from 10-50 yards and aim the dot at t itarget at each distance and see where the pellets land. Then do the same test with the same gun but with a scope. And use a mid range magnification like 10 power. That would be a interesting test.
It will be interesting to see if the ASP becomes more/less hold sensitive with the synthetic stock; my coin flip comes up “more”.
PREPARATION FOR THE SHOT aka A Critical Component For Proper Shooting Technique
Today’s blog reminds me of a BAM B 26 I owned. Bought 2 of them tuned as presents for twin boys. Cleaned the barrels on both, mounted scopes on both, tightened stock screws, etc., and started shooting them to dial the scopes in and pellet test.
One of them was not very hold sensitive and liked several pellets. The other one became a lengthy battle to get to group at 25 yards. It consistently shot two different groups with the same pellet (see today’s blog).
I tried many different holds with a variety of pressure at the points the gun contacted me, took the scope off and shot with open sights, tried every pellet I owned, etc., etc. Out of frustration I cried on B.B.’s shoulder. That’s when he offered me the best advice for shooting a hold sensitive break barrel airgun I ever heard or read.
B.B. said, “Take more time in PREPARATION FOR THE SHOT.” To paraphrase his advice, use a consistent hold, line up your sights/scope on target, THEN RELAX YOUR HOLD and see if your point of aim (POA) changes. If it does, start over. Until your POA doesn’t change when you relax while on target, don’t pull the trigger.
I’m convinced that B.B.’s advice saved me years of counseling with professionals.
Kevin,
Bless your heart!
I ALMOST wrote all of that (the relaxation part) in today’s report, because that is what I had to do to get the rifle to shoot. That’s what I meant by using a real artillery hold.
B.B.
B.B.,
Wringing the last bit of accuracy out of a finicky springer can be one of the most rewarding and most frustrating elements of this hobby.
The “relaxation technique” adds significant time and energy when a springer demands it. Makes me appreciate those rare springers that are accurate and forgiving of technique all the more.
kevin
B.B.,
It is really interesting how in many high level sports RELAXING is the key to top performances!
shootski
I still think that this is an extremely fine rifle. With a difference of only 114 mils between groups at 25 yards it seems to me that the effect is negligible for a springer of this power level. Even the second best best pellet grouped almost as large as the ‘bad’ rested group. I may be alone here, but I would not call this rifle ‘hold sensitive’.
Henry
Henry,
That’s my take, too. The ASP20 isn’t that sensitive. The shooter just has to use a proper hold or rest the forearm.
B.B.
BB
Alot of springers and gas pistons are like that to get repeatable shots. You need a repeatable hold.
Gunfun1
Ten shot groups at 25 yards, 6-9 mph non directional wind, 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Hottest day this year.
Sig ASP20 & JSB Heavy 10.34 gr & off hand palm under forend midway. Trigger is squeezed by index finger pad and thumb on top of grip. Score .98” was not good. The next score with JSB 8.44 gr using same hold was .42” which was the best today. Wanting to compare holds I placed the rifle balanced on a bag and squeezed the trigger with fingers only to pull the 2 ½ pound trigger. No contact with body except fingers. Using JSB 8.44 gr the score was .89”. Next I wanted to shoot a group with same JSB 8.44 gr pellets using extremely random holds. Score was 1.39” and that is good news for hunters and timed plinking.
Upshot is this rifle is accurate, just find the pellets it likes and use your favorite hold very consistently. I had 5 straight shots using my “strangle” hold that were within ½ “.
If this rifle had a match trigger it may or may not compete with my vintage competition rifles at 25 yards if one wanted to shoot a 10 meter rifle at that distance.
Deck
Deck
Not bad with the JSB 8.4 grain pellets.
I guess you got more trigger time coming.
Will be waiting to hear a update.
Gunfun1
Sig ASP20 trigger adjustment is purposely set to allow a minimum of two and one half pounds in its adjustment range. I knew that when I bought it. That trigger pull weight is high for me but makes sense for hunting and plinking. My rifle has so far met my expectations. Your great grand children may marvel about this one years from now.
Deck
Deck,
Indeed it would be interesting to see the Dallas airgun show of 2120, just what would be the hot guns of 2020?
Mike
Deck
Maybe so about great grand kids and the gun. But I’ll probably never know.
B.B.,
As I have said a number of times before I switched to the Dark Side in the very early 1990s so my adult Airgun experience is very limited; but that may change because of the ASP20. I am going to wait for the synthetic stock ASP20 in .22 since I’ll be hunting with it. I may go with the WISKEY3 got I have also been looking at the other SIG Scopes with a custom elevation turret.
I did pull the trigger on the LabRadar so I’ll be saving my spare change for the ASP20 for a few months for sure.
If I get really industrious I may write something up about my RADAR Chronograph experience.
B.B. if I’m not allowed to do this just delete! Thank you!
I don’t need spare Chronographs from now on so…I have a NIB:
https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/244882/shooting-chrony-beta-master-chronograph?utm_medium=shopping&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Shooting+-+Chronographs%2C+Wind+Meters+%26+Timers&utm_content=244882&cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Chronographs%2C+Wind+Meters+%26+Timers-_-Shooting+Chrony-_-244882&gclid=Cj0KCQiA1NbhBRCBARIsAKOTmUuUIW4yKVH3gOXwqz05NmaYJwsp5Grat6f-ZJj8zBdQPpS2Tq806mUaAqHYEALw_wcB
To the best offerer over $100. USA ONLY. You pay for your choice of shipping.
shootski
B.B.
Thanks for the reticle image, it helps with my decision to wait for the combo.
Nice troubleshooting on the wayward double group & nice shooting period. You’re making it hard to wait to get an ASP20. 8^)
Bimjo
How does the trigger compare to the TX200?
Jeff,
Welcome to the blog.
The Matchlite trigger isn’t as fine as the trigger in the TX200, but it is the finest spring piston airgun trigger made in the U.S.
B.B.