by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Sig ASP20 breakbarrel rifle.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
This report covers:
- Air Arms domes
- A different rest
- The artillery hold
- Screamer!
- Another pellet
- Final group — confirmation
- Summary
In the last report I cleaned the barrel of the Sig ASP20 breakbarrel rifle and showed you there are no real baffles to worry about. Today I want to test the rifle to see whether cleaning has changed the accuracy in any way. I also want to test the rifle resting directly on a sandbag versus using the artillery hold. I will also try some different pellets, to see if there is more potential accuracy. It should be a good test, so let’s get started.
I’m shooting 5-shot groups today because I’m still learning things about the airgun. Five-shot groups allow me to test more things.
Air Arms domes
In Part 4 the most accurate pellet at 25 yards was the 16-grain dome from Air Arms. So that was the one I wanted to try today. But I had just cleaned the barrel, which can make a gun less accurate for the first few shots. Let’s see what happened.
The first five shots at 25 yards were shot with the rifle resting on the sandbag. The front of the triggerguard was touching the rear of the bag. Shot one went to 9 o’clock in the white and shot two went to 12 — also in the white. Shots 3, 4 and 5 are all together near the center of the bullseye and look like 2 shots rather than 3. The lower hole has two pellets through it. This group measures 0.815-inches between centers and is nearly twice the size of the group I shot at 25 yards with the same pellet in Part 4. That one was five in 0.412-inches with the rifle rested the same way.
The first group of Air Arms domes after cleaning looked like this. I marked the shots so you can see what I saw as they were fired. Five shots are in 0.815-inches at 25 yards.
I knew the rifle would settle down after a few shots and it looked like it already had. So I shot a second group with the same pellet and same rest. This time 5 pellets made a 0.51-inch group. That’s a lot better, but still not as good as the group I shot in Part 4. It is close enough to that group for me to to say that cleaning the barrel has made no impact on the accuracy.
The second group of Air Arms domes shot in the same way measures 0.51-inches between centers. This is a better group and it shows that the rifle has settled down.
A different rest
I wondered if resting the rifle more forward on the bag might make any difference, so I tried that next. This time the forearm was resting on the bag and it made a big difference! Five shots now went into 0.335-inches at 25 yards. This is a very good group! It’s getting into the neighborhood of what can be done with a good PCP.
When the forearm of the rifle was rested on the sandbag, five Air Arms pellets went into a 0.335-inch group at 25 yards. This is getting good!
I want to point out that by changing the way the rifle is rested we cannot make any claims that cleaning the barrel contributed to this increase in accuracy. It might have been just as possible to get this result before cleaning the barrel, if the same rest had been used.
The artillery hold
Okay, this is the test I really wanted to do. Would the artillery hold do anything to the accuracy of this rifle? While I was shooting at Sig I didn’t think the artillery hold was as good as resting directly on the bag, but now I have the time to test a lot more things under controlled conditions. For instance, I guessed that holding my off hand farther forward would help.
Screamer!
Since moving the rifle forward on the sandbag seemed to help, that was where I rested it on my off hand for this test. Five shots using an artillery hold with the forward part of the forearm resting on my off hand went into a group measuring 0.072-inches between centers at 25 yards. I believe that is the smallest group I have ever shot with any airgun at 25 yards. It may be larger than what I have measured — groups shot with domes are difficult to measure exactly, but my best estimate puts the calipers at 0.295-inches across the widest point of the 5-shot group. Subtract 0.223-inches for one pellet diameter and you get the group size, center-to-center. This qualifies as a screamer — the greatest 25-yard screamer I have ever shot in my life with a pellet gun! Was it luck? Probably a little. But with the ASP20 it’s easy to get lucky.
Five Air Arms domes seem to have gone into a 25-yard group that measures 0.072-inches between centers! I pulled out the three-cent piece for comparison but also used the dime because we are getting many new subscribers and readers each day who aren’t familiar with the smaller silver coin.
Another pellet
Okay, I didn’t measure that last group until I had taken the pictures and started writing this report, so I wasn’t shook up yet. I thought it would be nice to try a pellet I had not shot in the ASP20 yet, so I pulled out a tin of JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy domes. These 18.1-grain pellets are often the most accurate — especially in PCPs.
In the ASP20 this pellet dropped one inch below my aim point at 25 yards, which was the center of the bullseye that’s above the group you see in the picture. Remember also that I had sighted the rifle in at 10 meters and only adjusted the scope according to the known distance to the target. What I’m saying is that the scope is what centered the Air Arms pellets in the bullseye — I did not adjust it after 10 meters, except to adjust the vertical knob for the new distance of 25 yards.
Ed Schultz had told me the rifle likes pellets in the 14.5- to 16-grain range and this one was two grains heavier than that. I just wanted to see how it would do. Now that I knew the artillery hold was best for the rifle I held it that way to shoot this group.
Five of these heavier pellets went into a group that measures 0.421-inches between centers. That’s good, but in light of what the Air Arms pellet is doing, I think I will stick with it.
Five JSB Extra Jumbo Heavy pellets went into 0.421-inches at 25 yards. The group is about an inch below the aim point.
Final group — confirmation
After shooting that extremely small group with the artillery hold, I had to give the bag rest one more try. Was I trying harder now and aiming better? I rested the forearm on the bag which we learned is the best way to rest it and I fired 5 careful shots with the Air Arms domes. This time 5 went into a group measuring 0.429-inches between centers. Earlier I had put 5 into 0.335-inches with the same rest. I have to say that this is a good way to shoot the rifle and this pellet is a very good one in the rifle, but it looks like the artillery hold wins. More testing will be required to establish this, of course, and that’s why they pay me the big bucks!
A second group of five Air Arms domes with the forearm rested on the bag is only slightly larger than the first. It measures 0.429-inches between centers.
Summary
Let’s see, what can I say? How about WOW? I’m 71 years old and well past my prime, yet today I shot the smallest 5-shot group of my life with an air rifle at 25 yards. Bully for me, but don’tcha think the rifle had something to do with it? I do.
The ASP20 continues to amaze me. The trigger is a peach. The rifle doesn’t vibrate. The scope is clear and sharp. And the accuracy… well — you know.
B.B.,
I can say wow too. That is fantastic shooting. I have not been much of a Springer fan but a bundle, rifle and scope, would be irrisitable. I don’t remember you showing a complete picture of the rifle with the scope mounted. I am just curious.
So I bet you will be keeping this one. Congratulations on the screamer.
Don
Oh and Happy New Year to All. And thanks for another great blog year B.B.
Don,
Look through the tour reports and it shows up with the scope on it.
/blog/2018/08/my-day-at-sig-sauer-part-4/
I myself am hoping they are going to be REAL slow with bringing out the synthetic stock version.
RR,
Thanks for the link. I have not bought an airgun this year yet, maybe it’s time .
Don,
This one is going to be a hard one not to get. I am really, really, really not wanting to get another sproinger right now. I am wanting to get another PCP, but this thing…
I will just have to hold out hope that I can still get the synthetic stock ASP20 / W3 package when I am ready.
RR,
I was waiting on the Fortitude and wanted .177. Now I am waiting on the dust to clear before pulling the trigger. The early reviews did not paint a good picture. I am hope they get some issues worked out or come out with a new model. If they added a two stage trigger option the trigger assembly would fit all the previous models back to the 2260 I think. I could use a few myself. I am looking at the Maximas right now as my next PCP. Unless I go for a RAW/Air Force waiting on B.B.s review.
Two many choices now days!
Don,
Way too many! I keep going round and round and round.
At the moment I am thinking of a Marauder pistol, with a P-Rod Double kit and a RAI shoulder stock. I nice, light, compact carbine.
I have also been thinking of a Fortitude with a shorter LW barrel, shroud and reservoir. This has the potential for being a sweet little carbine itself.
RR,
I need another air rifle like I need some more holes in my head. But, this one is interesting. If I were to,… not sayin’ that I would mind you,…. I would wait for the cheek riser version in synthetic. While they are at it, maybe a simple up/down adjustable butt pad? It is thick enough to make that happen.
I am not sold on the scope yet. The dual near/far turret is pellet specific. Plus,.. unless you are good at judging distance or have a marked range or a range finder, I am not sure of the use. I am not so sure that a conventional scope and using the click method (with cheat sheet) would not be of the same function. And clarity. How does it compare to the best UTG’s? Does it light? I do not recall. The light is a plus when shooting into dark/shaded areas.
Without looking back,.. I do believe that BB said the scope/rifle was going to be offered at a lower price than the 2 separate. Not uncommon, but that the scope itself would be pretty costly and the (limited time?) combo might be a (real deal) to jump on when it becomes available.
The weight bugs me a bit too. Maybe designed that way? After having the TX200 and LGU and now the Maximus,… I can appreciate lighter weight and handling. A PCP is easier to make lighter though. Could any be shaved?
Just my 2 cents thus far,….. Chris
Chris USA,
Happy new year!
After being firmly anchored on the “dark” side, I’m not very interested in springers…. until now. This one has my attention if it can shoot similar 10 shot groups at 50ish yards. The scope is also appealing at the combo price, although I wouldn’t care about the special drop calculating knob or whatever it’s called.
Don’t know if you read my comments last night on the PCP pistol, the Onix Sport, but if you are ever in the market for one, it’s a goodin’, so far.
Half
Half,
Yes, I did see your post. Not a pistol guy myself, but your pistol is interesting. Options and adjustability are good in my book. I have no issues with my reg. added Maximus.
On the rifle,… very impressive. On the turrets,… I have found that daily/session re-sight is needed for precision. For me,… if I readjust at a known 40, for the day,…. the rest is good if using holdover. I suppose that is why competition shooters re-sight each time they are competing, to allow for barometric pressure, temperature and other changes.
Then again, clicking to the bull is better than guessing at holdover. Sure, they are close, but I think that clicking to the bull/cross hair is more precise than a holdover. I am a holdover guy, but would love to explore the clicking method more.
And,… a Happy New Years to you as well. Keep up the good work!,….. Chris
Chris USA,
If I can find a supplier of one of those folding stocks I mentioned, maybe I can pique your interest in it as a carbine rifle???
Also, Mr. Not a Pistol Guy, if you ever get a chance at one of those Mark Is that BB is reviewing, you should go for it. Fun Fun little Gun! 🙂
Half,
If anything has my interest,… it is the Chaser rifle/combo.
Chris
As for making a stock for the Onix?,… maybe Vana2 (Hank) will get you up to speed? 😉
Chris,
There is a stock made for this gun already, I just have to find a supplier. Making a stock for it would be pretty easy but the one that is sold for it folds and that would be a bit trickier to cobble at home.
Half
Half,
On folding,…. I have found the RAI version to send the butt stock downward and was not happy with the lock up. Good, but not precise. I ended up taking it off the RAI stocked M-rod.
Chris
Chris USA,
Density Altitude is the factor you are zeroing in on!
Altitude both actual and relative; but relative altitude is so much more of the effector on external Ballistics.
https://kestrelmeters.com/pages/understanding-pressure-altitud-and-density-altitude
You need one of these from Kestral!
https://kestrelmeters.com/products/kestrel-elite-weather-meter-with-applied-ballistics
shootski
Shootski,
As with coffee,… you are a ballistics “coinsurer” as well! 😉
I can only hope to learn 1/10th of what you have forgot! 🙂
Thank you for your continued support to my curiosities. I have every link you have posted. Used? Applied? I do my best.
Chris
Chris USA,
We truly live in an extraordinary age so much so that it is difficult to keep up with all the advancements that have and will occur in our lifetimes. Some of the difficulty is in weeding out the snake oil from the REAL thing. B.B.s blog is certainly an aid in that insofar as airguns and general shooting. SIG is “going for the gold” in so many different areas that…even I’m impressed, Lol
I’ll be 70 tommorow feel like I’m 55 and certainly think with my workout routine and continued good health that I will be enjoying life well into my 100s. Attitude makes up so much of the Arc of our lives keep moving, learning and ENJOY every possible moment.
shootski
Half,
I have seen that pistol elsewhere under various brand names. It has been hard not to pick one of those up, though I think I would rather have one of these.
/product/ataman-ap16-regulated-standard-air-pistol?m=4127
Then again I am seriously thinking of a P-Rod Double carbine.
RR,
I like the Ataman,too, but the cost of the barrel and front and rear sight is about $20 more than my whole gun cost, delivered to my door from Spain. I’m cheap, above all else. PA doesn’t carry the gun I have but I think they should. If they could specify to Snowpeak that they wanted a fully adjustable rear sight on the version they sold, I think they would have a hard time keeping them on the shelves.
Since you are familiar with the gun, have you ever seen the folding stock made for it and would you know of a supplier of it overseas? Or in the US for that matter.
Half
Half,
You might check with Mrod-Air.
RR,
I tried to get the gun there and it’s out of stock. I couldn’t find the folding stock, at that time, on their site, but I just went back there through a different link and I think they must be out of business. I tried putting a bunch of items in my cart and they all come up as out of stock. Also, the only review on the site was a customer complaining that his compressor broke and when he tried to contact them about a replacement they had, to use his words, “disappeared of the face of the earth”.
I think I’ll just stay away.
May have found a retailer in the UK. Their site says no international sales, but I asked anyway and just received a response stating that they do sell to the US market. I think I am just going to buy it there.
Just placed the order. It was $47.25 USD delivered.
Half
Half,
Awesome! I want to see what it looks like when you get it all together.
Maybe you can write a blog about the pistol / carbine. 🙂
RR,
I found these images to post.
This is locked open
Half,
I am not crazy about the fact that the stock will interfere with using the pistol when folded, but I do think that would be a real nice addition anyway.
Maybe you should think about a single point sling attachment. 😉
Halfstep
Nice looking with the folding stock.
Chris
The click method would be the same.
Matter of fact I’m sure even with the Whiskey scope with the specified pellet. You will still need to shoot the gun at different distances and document the correct hold.
There is no way it will be dead on for each gun. To many variables in the pellets and the guns. And even the scopes.
I hope people don’t end up sending the gun and scopes back saying that the scope is not working right with the pellets that Sig designated for that particular caliber. But I can already see that coming on.
GF1,
100% agree. If not mistaken,… there is an entire industry built around custom turrets. Send your PB to them, they document the best load, design a turret for said load,… and you are good to go. Well,… as long as you have a good range finder. I think there is range finders that take everything into account as well, are programable and can even adjust for your current location and conditions. Maybe even spit out a micro cup of Expresso? 😉
I think that this would best be marketed as using a (specific) type/range/weight of pellets to avoid what you suggest. If using something other,…. some “tweakage” might be required. The turrets do move/adjust,.. but the near/far ranges would be off. The near 0 and far 0 points would change, while the turret still has fixed markings. I do believe that FX was perfecting the perfect pellet/gun combo chart awhile back. Status?
Anyways,… my thoughts on the matter. All in all,… quite interesting.
Chris
Chris
Yep. But problem being is people will expect the package to perform. It will probably be close to good. But perfect no.
But the gun does seem to be good so far at holding it’s end of the bargain.
As it goes. Time Will Tell.
GF1,
At any rate,… I (DO) appreciate a company that will go to the time and expense to get it right the ((first time)) out of the gate. That opinion will never change and will earn my respect.
Chris
Chris
Yep first time is good. We’ll see.
ChrisUSA,
https://www.sigsauer.com/edu/why-sig-optics/
Not esspresso ready but….
NO other words needed!
shootski
Shootski,
Impressive! (Worth a look ya’ all).
Chris
GunFun 1,
I’m intrigued by your belief that you would need to shoot and document the hold (by which I’m going to presume you mean hold over/under) with a specific ASP20/WISKEY3/pellet combination. IIRC B.B. in Part Three
said:/blog/2018/12/sig-asp20-rifle-with-whiskey3-asp-4-12×44-scope-part-3/. said:
“What I’m saying is the Whiskey3 might actually be better on an air rifle than any other ballistic scope in use on a firearm today. I have to sight in the rifle and set the scale on the scope before I can test accuracy, so you will have a chance to look over my shoulder at how this scope is set up.”. I think that is what he is saying.
And, SigAir hasn’t indicated if the turret can be slipped and locked but even without that capability pellets within the stated weight range should shoot close enough to specifications that most if not all shooters are going to be able to decide if it is them or not. Given SIGs track record on not only this Airgun but other products for very tight specifications and manufacturing tolerances I will be shocked if many examples will be returned for the reason(s) you suspect…I could be wrong but let’s wait and see.
I do hope you are wrong and I suspect on this one you would also like to be proven wrong.
Time will tell!
shootski
Shootski,
I do not see the advantage of the Whiskey3’s elevation adjustment allowing the crosshairs to be kept on the target. For the pellet to always impact at the point of aim you must know the exact range to the target. In a hunting or pesting scenario, and without a good rangefinder, what good would it be?
My Urban is sighted at 30 yards with an 18.1g pellet. This gives me a PBR with a 1/2″ killzone from 13 yards to 35 yards, and only a 1.5 mil-dot holdover at 50 yards. Most shots with airguns will be less than 50 yards so why use the elevation adjustment? I believe in this case, less is more. The less you adjust the scope the better off you’ll be. Also, how accurate can the tracking be on an inexpensive scope? Maybe we will find out when B.B. does his testing of it.
GEO791,
You have knowledge and skills that the vast majority of SigAirs target buyers can only wish to have. You are probably thinking that they could learn just like you have…maybe a few of them but the vast majority will never understand the concept of point-blank-range (PBR) and most certainly not be able to figure out what the best sight in range is for a given pellet/rifle combination. So the APS20/WHISKEY3 will keep most of them shooting (BUYING) and believing they are the new incarnation of The Rifleman. There will be technological attempts to match the knowledge and skills many readers of this blog have worked hard to attain. They will fall far short for now but eventually the average shooter, aided by new technology, will keep gaining on us until the difference in shooting will be so slim that they will, under average conditions, regularly be our equals.
shootski
Shootski,
Yes, shooting airguns, especially breakbarrel springers, has a long learning curve. There are so many things to account for in order to be accurate with one. I tried very persistently for over four years, and with the help of B.B. and several experienced bloggers here, but I was never able to achieve my goal. My goal was, and still is, to shoot consistently good groups of 1″ or less at 25 yards. I need this accuracy to confidently dispatch harassing sparrows from my bluebird nesting boxes. After the purchase of the Urban PCP last spring, I now have that confidence again. This blog has been extremely helpful in my journey.
Shootski
The question is what is the kill zone your after. If your shooting feild target and you have half inch diameter kill zones then your hold over or unders or clicks need to be precise for a given distance.
You know as well as I do how much variables can happen. I still believe that the scope and gun will not be able to be exact enough for a half inch kill zone target at different distances.
We shall see how it all works out.
Gunfun 1,
I don’t think the WHISKEY3, at 12 power, would be any more than an entry level choice for Hunter Class Field Target. I think SigAir is aiming for a different, much larger, group of buyers for this product combination. Given B.B. and others reported results so far; I think the APS20 with another scope may prove to be highly competitive in a number of shooting disciplines.
But we both agree that only time will tell!
shootski
Shootski
And yes indeed we will see.
Chris,
The synthetic stock will likely be a little lighter. As for that scope, I might go for it with the package but not by itself. I would prefer this one.
/product/hawke-sport-optics-hd-ir-series-2-7×32-ao-rifle-scope-illuminated-mil?a=3864
That is some great shooting! Though I was really hoping it liked a bag better than a hand.
Edw
Same here on the bag verses a hand.
B.B.,
Fine, fine shooting. I would be happy with any of those groups at 25 yards from a springer/gas ram air gun,… especially the “screamer”.
Chris
BB,
That is awesome! You are making it very difficult for me to not allow one of these to move into RRHFWA. I am sorely afraid that should one of these dressed in a synthetic stock show up on my doorstep, I would not be able to resist inviting it to move in.
Well, the truth is I could indeed resist such, at least until I have an uncontrollable urge to buy a modern sproinger. You may rest assured though that it will be at the very top of my recommendation list. This will be an airgunner’s hunting sproinger if ever there was one.
Ed and the gang have certainly set a pretty high bar.
I, agree on the recomendations, especially bundled with the scope.
Don,
I am in sooo much pain!
B.B.
“Do you feel lucky? Well do ya?”
Just get a Sig ASP20 rifle and find out!
Thanks for all the reports this year, and may the New Year bring you health and happiness,
Yogi
B.B.
I’m looking to get into airguns and the blog has been very helpful. I have followed this review with great interest. An accurate rifle that needs nothing more than pellets and targets appeals greatly & the ASP20 seems to fit my needs perfectly. I’m waiting for the combo with a synthetic stock to be released so my wallet will be a bit lighter and I don’t lean over when I sit down. 8^)
Thanks for the great work & may the new year treat you well.
Bimjo
Bimjo,
Welcome to the blog.
B.B.
Thanks B.B. for a great year of fine reports and with this one on the ASP you set the stage for even a better 2019. Those groups from a springer of this power level are just amazing, even the bad ones. Kudos to Ed and his team at SIG. And of course congratulations to you too, that screamer needs framing!
I am afraid I will also have to make room for one of these when the combo shows up. Oh well, I have some time to work up an excuse for my better half.
Happy New Year to All!!
Henry
BB
Very nice shooting. You and the gun. 🙂
Happy New Year all.
B.B.,
What a way to start a New Year!
Michael
Awesome group, Tom! You’ve found your pellet for that airgun.
So, Mr. Gaylord, you’re 71 as am I, but in March I’ll, hopefully, put yet another notch in this old frame. For both of us, one-half to one-third of our lives are over! LOL
I’m not surprised that you hold the tight group with the springer. I have one Crosman 392 that I purchased as an homage to the rifle I learned to shoot with on my uncle’s farm in the early 60s, but all the rest are springers. I am a devoted springer shooter and shoot about 5640 rounds a month in the basement range at 10 meters; the results you held are great. I’m not all that sure that age necessarily negatively impacts aim if the aim is supported sufficiently. A supported artillery hold with good breath control and little nystagmus should result in good shooting.
I enjoy your articles, and, in particular those on (old school?) springer power plants – inclusive of gas rams. Keep up the good work! Maybe you could encourage Weirauch to consider a magnum version of the P-1. I own one of these “gold standards” and it is my favorite pistol. While the physics might get ugly with increased swept volume of a larger compression cylinder (thus ruining the smoothness of the P-1), it would be interesting to see if the output could be booster for 100 or more fps. I only wish I had tool and die maker skills, but degrees in theology don’t count!
Have a prosperous and rewarding new year, young man!
Lance
Lance,
As you and I get older, it is the eyes that go! Yes, great breathing, well supported hold all help.
Congratulations on living this long, I’m catching up to you. You really do not want to live to be 100!
-Y
Yogi,
🙂 Still a young’un by your standards. I see me at 57,.. M+D at 80 +/- and I can agree. Yes, some do 100+ well and still have all their wits. Most,… not so much. But,… as my Mom said one time while on the topic,… “you do not have a choice when you go”,….
So,… be prepared as best you can be for the long run! 😉
Chris (Happy New Year to you,… you ol’ anti-PCP grump you,…. ) 😉
Yogi: I just had both cataracts done. The vision has come back in a major way in terms of clarity. the fuzziness in the peep apertures cleared up significantly. Still have some trouble with open sights on my pistols because my implants are set at “infinity,” “distance.”
We make up for losses, as the neuropsychologists point out, by increased use of our accumulated skill sets and experience. Ability to shoot relies on the learned behaviors over, literally, hundreds of thousands of experiences/learning moments. We oldsters use that accumulation to our advantage even though the strength may ebb and the vision may dim.
I remember an old adage, but don’t remember its author: “Never trust a young doctor or an old barber.” As long as we aren’t putting the straight razor to our throats foolishly (well Gaylord exempted as evidenced by his recent series on them) we can be wiser and better despite our aging; provided, of course, that we practice, practice, practice. We’re like musicians, to a degree; we can still play despite age to the very last.
B.B.
Happy New Year to you!
I’m really liking this rifle. I’m not into scopes at all though. Just me. I’m an open sight type of guy. That said, I do like red dots ok enough. Do you think this would shoot good with a red dot? I see no reason why it would not. I hope people don’t try and tell me how much more accurate a scope is then red dots or open sights. Yes I know it and yes I have scope(s). I just prefer open sights 1st, then red dots.
Thank You,
Doc
Doc
Just so you feel better. I like dot sights too.
I’m still contemplating putting one on my Hatsan bullmaster. It really would be a nice combination I believe.
And I have tryed my faithful Tasco red dot on many air guns and even some rimfire. Put it this way. I’m never disappointed that I did try it on them.
Off-topic, but for those who are interested in old/weird airguns like RR and BB, there’s an old gentleman up here who trades in them, although he currently seems to be on vacation for a while: http://airgunoldies.com/
Chanman819,
I have purchased several airguns from Mr. Marvin.
B.B.
BB,
Happy New Year!
Gotta love this gun. I hope that 10 shot groups at longer range are in the offing. This young upstart is “screaming” to be put to the test!!
Are you going to have all the new 2018 guns reviewed before the 2019 Shot show adds to your…uh… burden?
Half
PS I took another look at your piercing cap photo from yesterday and I think what I mistook for a light tan synthetic seal is a drop of oil. Duh!
BB,
Happy New Year. That group is a great start to 2019!
I’m normally reluctant to be an early adopter of newly released products, preferring instead to let teething problems come to light and be sorted out before parting with my hard earned cash, but I am sorely tempted to throw caution to the wind and splash out on an ASP20.
I’m not entirely convinced that the Whiskey 3 scope isn’t an expensive load of “bravo sierra” though. The Sig Sauer sight I would like to see on the ASP20 is the Romeo 5 compact red dot. It has motion activated illumination and a 2 MOA dot, which should allow fine aiming on typical airgun quarry out to 40 yards or so, or on tin cans out to 60 yards or more.
I wonder if the Romeo 5 is robust enough to withstand magnum air rifle recoil. Perhaps if you get a chance you could test one for us.
Oh, Bob!
You want me to dismount my Whiskey3 scope? I know you are curious, but that is like painting a Ferrari with bed liner in my book. 🙁
B.B.
B.B.,
Hey,.. that bed liner is awesome stuff! I had a 74 Ford super van for 18 years that had 6+ coats of hand brushed tractor paint,…. at least 50 ft. of aluminum roof flashing and more rivets than I can count. But,… it did look pretty darn good,… at 25 yards,… or so,… if you squinted a bit. 🙂 If bed liner had been around,… it would have been one and done,…………. Don’t knock it! 🙂 x 10 I have seen 2 trucks totally done with it.
Chris
BB,
Good Heavens no! If ain’t broke don’t fix it and the ASP20/Whiskey3 combo is working a treat 🙂
How about testing the Romeo5 with the ASP20 synthetic? You often test rifles at 10m and 25 yards with open sights before mounting a scope. The ASP20 doesn’t have open sights though, so I was thinking you could do the initial testing with a red dot sight. A 20 ft-lb, .177 ASP20 with Romeo5 could make a great, fast handling squirrel gun or farmyard ratter.
Bob Ryan,
Why not? Sig offers a 5 year on electronic s and lifetime on optics.
I’m certain that the folks on the SigAir side of Sig USA would have your diffinitive answer.
My question is why not step up to a ROMEO 6? Well okay $$$
shootski
Good idea Shootski – I’ll drop the good folks at SigAir a line.
Bob R
I like it. And 2 moa is nice.
GF1,
The 2 MOA is what piqued my interest in the Romeo5. I have a few cheap red dot sights, but all have coarse, 8 MOA dots which are not even round, more like amorphous blobs. They are fine for plinking out to 25 yds, but I’m curious to see how far a quality 2 MOA can stretch the range.
Bob
A nice fine dot would be great.
I got a old Tasco red dot that has 11 brightness settings. If I keep the brightness to the minimum for the light condition I get a nice small round dot. And I even have astigmatism. It’s not 2 moa. But it is sharp and round and pretty small.
But if I can find a nice sharp 2 moa dot sight that adjust nice I’m all for it. I will have to look more into the dot sight your talking about. If it works I’ll probably find myself going red dot poor. Because I’m sure I’ll get a few.
GF1,
Which gun do you use your Tasco red dot with?
The Romeo5 has 10 brightness settings and is fully waterproof. It’s motion activated, so you don’t need to worry about switching it on and off. I plan to put one on my Savage Mark II FV-SR and if Sig confirm that it’s spring gun rated, I’ll put one on my new Diana 52 also.
Bob
The Romeo 5 sounds real nice.
And currently my Tasco red dot is on my WildFire. But it’s been on a 54 Air King, FWB 300, Tx 200, Discovery, Maximus, some 2240’s made into carbine’s with Discovery barrels and 1399 stock and some 1322’s set up the same as the 2240’s. And had it on a couple semi-auto .22 rimfire as well as a .22 rimfire bolt action. And probably other guns I can’t remember right now.
So it’s been around the block. And I think it’s about 11 years old now. So would definitely like to try a new dot sight. And the Romeo 5 sounds like a nice one.
GF1,
It’s impressive that your Tasco red dot has stood up to 11 years of use on a variety of airguns and rimfires. My Hatsan 1000s shook my first red dot apart after a few hundred shots. I was able to put it together again, but moved to gentler airguns after that.
I put my second red dot sight (a no name model picked up online for about $25) on my Baikal MP61 (photo below) and I have found the two to be a great combination, really fun for plinking and an ideal tool for teaching kids and adult beginners to shoot. The MP61’s adjustable stock allows it to be used comfortably by shooters of any size and age and the red dot is easier for beginners to get the hang of than either open sights (where rear sight, front sight and target have to be aligned) or scope (correct eye relief distance needs to be found and narrow field of view can make target acquisition tricky for beginners). With the red dot it’s just place the dot on the target and squeeze the trigger.
That reminds me – BB showed us a photo of a new US made version of the MP61 at a gunshow sometime last year and said he would be testing it for us. I hope that is still on his to-do list.
Bob,
As soon as that rifle becomes available I will schedule it for testing.
B.B.
BB,
Great! Am looking forward to it 🙂
Bob
Here is a red dot sight that is similar to the Tasco red dot sight I have. I don’t know if they still make the Tasco brand. But there are several dot sights that look like the one in the link I’m posting but have a different brand name.
/product/hatsan-1×30-red-dot-sight-fits-11mm-dovetail?a=6662
And I had two of the Tasco red dots. I bought both at the same time. I let the other go with a gun I sold several, several years ago. From what I see now I should of kept that one too.
But yep good luck with it. I wonder if the type I showed is stronger than the type you show on your gun. And I’m sure there are good ones of that type as well as not so good ones. I haven’t tryed one yet. But would like to have a good one of those too.
B.B.,
I’m really enjoying this ASP20 WISKEY3 series. It will be interesting to see if the groups continue to be sub 1.5 MOA EQUIVALENT at 50. Will you keep moving your target range out IF accuracy holds up? The WISKEY3 turret does go out at least to 100!!! Will you? Will the ASP20 do sub 1.5 MOA? THAT would be SPECTACULAR!
I really might need to buy one to upset all my PCPs, Lol!
OBTW…Great shooting! Ugh!
Praise from a soon (hours) to be seventy year old!
You are doing us GEEZERS proud!
shootski
Fellow geezer,
If I do well at 50 yards then yes, I will go to 100. But there is heck of a lot of testing before then.
B.B.
B.B.,
First off, best wishes for a happy and healthy New Year. I look forward to many more great blogs in 2019.
Secondly, that is very impressive shooting…especially for a gas ram airgun! Kudos to Sig-Sauer for making it right the first time. It doesn’t appear that they could do anything to improve the ASP20. Sig appears to be a company with an emphasis on making quality products. As a retired quality professional, this is very refreshing to see.
Geo
Hope 2019 is treating you all well, so far.
As to aging, my late, great father-in-law used to say: “Aging is simply mind over matter. If you don’t mind, it don’t matter.” Here’s my take on the subject, based on life experience, research, and taking advice from close friends who practice the medical arts well. To stay in top form physically and mentally for as long as possible, good nutrition, coupled with regular body and mind exercise, are essential. When it comes to nutrition, my cardiologist brother-from-another-mother sez sugar is Public Enemy No. 1, with processed foods second. He adds that if one can’t/won’t work out regularly, walking at least 30 minutes daily is a must. So, take care of yourselves, that you may live well, long, and enjoy many years of airgunning. Let the bad eggs be the ones to die young. By the way, I’m 68, working to convince the Lord to let me leave the world kicking and screaming, when the time comes.
Back to this post and excellent review. BB, you should get commission from SIG on every ASP20 sold, based on your well-researched, detailed evaluations of this rifle. By the time it is available, I shoulda been able to round up the bucks for the rifle and scope combo. Believe this will be the go-to air rifle for plain fun and the practical tool to eliminate pesky green devil-reptiles invading our backyard turf. Using a Ruger 10-22 with CCI Quiet .22 rounds works, but really limits the “field of fire;” dare not fire high in our urban environment. And if some rat were to call the LEOs, FM would fare better explaining away an air rifle rifle than a firearm.
Life is a gas – enjoy to the max!
Basil,
Yes to commission! 🙂 Where do I sign up?
B.B.
In a senior moment, I just remembered something I meant to ask in my last post- what does the Whiskey 3 reticle look like? I’ve looked all over the web and haven’t seen anyone describe it.
Bimjo
Bimjo,
I’ll put something in the next report next week.
B.B.
Thanks B.B., I look forward to the next report.
Bimjo