by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Hatsan’s .30 caliber 135 QE Vortex is a large breakbarrel — both in size and caliber.
This report covers:
- Adjusting the trigger
- JSB Exact 50.15 grains
- Predator Polymag
- Air Venturi .30 caliber balls
- JSB Exact 44.75 grains
- Cocking effort
- Recoil
- Discussion
- Summary
Time for me to bend the bow of Ulysses, which no man but he could string. Today is velocity day, plus I said I would take a closer look at adjusting the Quattro trigger. I’ll do the trigger first.
Adjusting the trigger
All of the trigger adjustments work and I adjusted them all. The trigger came out of the box breaking at 6 lbs. 10.5 oz. and I was able to get it down to 5 lbs. 4 oz. When I did the first stage went away, so I added some and now it feels right to me. I also lightened the first stage pull (1 lb. 10 oz.) by a couple ounces (1 lb. 4 oz.), though it doesn’t seem any different when I pull it.
My take on the trigger is that it does adjust, but the range in which it works is still high. For a sporting trigger, though, it is fine. Stage two breaks cleanly, though I can feel some movement, so it isn’t crisp. Let’s look at the velocity.
JSB Exact 50.15 grains
The first pellet I tested was the JSB Exact that weighs 50.15 grains. It’s a dome and, if accurate, should make a good hunting pellet. This monster averaged 543 f.p.s. with a spread from 540 to 546 f.p.s. That’s just 6 f.p.s. At the average velocity this pellet averaged 32.84 foot-pounds at the muzzle.
No doubt 543 f.p.s. sounds slow to you. But bear in mind that a century ago the .25 caliber pellet rifles were only in the high 300s. Yes the trajectory will be pronounced, but at the close distance this rifle is meant for you should be able to estimate the range pretty close.
Predator Polymag
Next up were Predator Polymag pellets. They call themselves a pointed pellet because of the red plastic insert, but in fact they are really hollowpoints. Peformance on game should be stunning!
Polymags averaged 569 f.p.s. from the 135 QE Vortex. They ranged from a low of 565 to a high of 570 f.p.s.. So the spread was just 5 f.p.s. At the average velocity Polymags generate 32.18 foot-pounds at the muzzle.
If these prove accurate they will be an excellent hunting pellet. And Polymags often do prove accurate, so this is one to watch.
Air Venturi .30 caliber balls
Next I tried Air Venturi .308-caliber 44-grain round balls. But they were too big to enter the breech. Even after pushing on one hard with my thumb it didn’t go in halfway.
The Air Venturi .308 ball is too large to enter the Hatsan 135 breech. This is as far as it goes when firmly pressed.
JSB Exact 44.75 grains
The final pellet I tried was the 44.75-grain dome. Ironic, isn’t it, that JSB made the only three pellets that I could shoot in this rifle? This pellet was the fastest, at an average 580 f.p.s. out the muzzle. It also had the largest velocity spread, from a low of 573 to a high of 585 f.p.s. That’s 12 f.p.s., which is still very good for a new springer.
At the average velocity this pellet generates 33.44 foot-pounds, which is the highest energy I recorded in the test. As a dome, it is another good hunting pellet, as long as it’s accurate.
Cocking effort
Remember I said that this was the hardest rifle to cock I have ever experienced? I personally thought it was going to register 100 lbs. on the scale. Well — it didn’t! It registered 57 lbs. Apparently I am closer to 100 than this rifle.
Recoil
The recoil is heavy but not extreme. And the vibration is very much under control. For the power and caliber the Hatsan 135 QE Vortex is smooth.
Discussion
I was surprised by how consistent the powerplant is — especially for a new springer! I can now see why people like this large air rifle. I still find the Quattro on the heavy side, but well within the range of usability.
Summary
This is a civilized magnum breakbarrel air rifle. Before this test I thought it was just a gag, but with just what little I’ve done today I see that it’s much more.
My plan is to shoot it for accuracy at 10 meters with open sights next, and then decide which way to go afterward.
B.B.
So, this gun is putting out the power of a .22 CB round.
And doing so at a more consistent velocity than some of the CB rounds I’ve used.
I look forward to seeing how it does in the accuracy department.
If I had one of these, I’d likely forget about a scope and stick on a receiver sight on it.
It looks like a serious huntin’ gun for sure! =>
Keep up the great work,
dave
With those ridiculously low spreads for a massively powerful springer, I am getting EXCITED!
Off topic
Missed the blog for a few days and just posted an entry on yesterdays, end, about my thoughts on collecting.
Retirement talk noted … If you need the money from Social Security to survive on, wait as long as you can to start collecting it. Goes up 6% every year. If not start at 62 or what ever it is now and bank it with interest. Don’t forget… average life expectancy after retirement is 10 years, stay busy ! I’m 6 months short of ten now 🙁
Computer info … Windows asked me it I wanted to do a “Redo” to speed up my very slow computer. What the heck?
They dumped a lot of things I never used … after they installed them all on updates. Now it’s like new ! The items are accessible for recapture on a homepage icon link. Very nice.
Thanks for the birthday well wishing,
Bob M
Bob,
If the average life expectancy after retirement is 10 years, that means I should retire at 95! ;^)
Michael
B.B.,
This seems to be putting out a lot of power for the cocking effort. The long barrel and linkage probably works well with the gas spring allowing you to cock it without Herculean effort. Do you think the previous instructions for the Quattro trigger: /blog/2016/04/hatsan-85-mobu-sniper-combo-part-6/ will also work for this one?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I’m sure all Quattro triggers adjust the same.
B.B.
B.B.,
Just a little confused as that the original instructions were for a spring powered rifle. This is a gas spring which might have a different latching point.
Siraniko
I think the barrel only looks long. My 130s has 10.5″of barrel. I don’t think the 135 has much more.
B.B.,
An interesting one for sure. Maybe after the 10,.. a scoped .25? Would be a good opportunity to try/review a new scope if you have one lying around. If so,… what better torture test?
I’m glad the trigger adjustments worked well. It is surprising that the adjustments would not allow for lighter,… unless you ran out of screw adjustment. 3# would be nice.
Good Day to one and all,…… Chris
Oppps,….. (25,… as in yard) Not .25
BB,
The trigger pull seems high to me, but considering everything else about this powerhouse is up there, it probably takes a good bit to hold it back. The Quatro on my Tomahawk seems pretty light though.
Why does Velocity Outdoors have such problems with a decent sproinger trigger?
RidgeRunner,
Probably the lawyers are to blame.
Siraniko
“Probably the lawyers are too blame.”
Siraniko, good one, man!
Sadly, there may be some truth to that.
Years ago, I made a call to a gun manufacturer (we’ll politely leave their name off =>)
and spoke to the head of their production department.
I told him I had held one of their rifles in my hand, and was going to buy it
…but the cross-bolt safety put me off (it was a lever action rifle).
I asked him, “half-cock safeties worked fine on lever action rifles for 140 years…why the change?”
Him: “Well, our lawyers advised us that it would be a good idea.”
Me: “Oh, so now you have lawyers designing your guns?”
Him: “So what do you know? Are you a design engineer?!?”
Me: “As a matter of fact, I am…and this design offends me.”
Then he hung up on me…can’t imagine why. =D
Siraniko,
I too am certain that is part of it, with the newer sproinger triggers breaking at over 7 pounds, but there is no real reason their trigger should have a long, creepy second stage. They have a nice trigger on their Marauder line and a somewhat decent trigger on the Discovery/Maximus line.
The only real explanation that I can fathom is the cost of redesigning and manufacturing a different trigger from what they have been using for years. I guess it is cheaper to through a new stock on it and claim it is a new model.
I also think that the heavier triggers are a result of a company’s fear of liability.
My Gamo Urban’s trigger out of the box had a very long and creepy second stage. I don’t have a gauge to measure trigger weight but the Urban’s trigger didn’t seem to be too heavy. It was just that long creep that really annoyed me. Changing the 8mm length adjusting screw out for a 9mm length made all the difference in the world. Now it has no creep and is very light and crisp. It feels as good, or better, than my T06 trigger on my Diana 34. It didn’t take much to make it perfect.
Companies probably realize that users wanting a better trigger will quickly figure out how to make it better, while still maintaining a safety factor that satisfies the lawyers. Too bad everyone is so sue conscience these days. Lawyers and accountants need to get out of the design business.
Geo791,
I have much too limited space and budget at Ridgerunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns to buy triggers that I know are an easy fix, but there are better out there. Plus buying such only encourages them to continue.
RR,
Please tell me we are not going to have to start referring to them as “Velocity Outdoors”. I just doesn’t seem to roll off my tongue and, after all, the toys they make for us will still be branded “Crosman”
Half
Half,
You notice I haven’t used that title yet? I think it is akin to corporate hara kiri to take a century-old household brand name and change it this way. What about the words Velocity Outdoors says anything about airguns?
It sounds like someone has listened to a millennial.
I’m calling them Crosman.
B.B.
BB,
2 BIG thumbs up to you for that !!
Half
B.B.,
Not to mention they had to throw in the word velocity. That really did not sit well with me. I would not look for it to reverse or change now.
Chris
ChrisU
Me thinks “Outhouse Accuracy” would have been more apropos and rows off the tongue better.
Half
Half,
Accuracy Outdoors?,….. maybe Precision Outdoors? Velocity just sounds cheap. Maybe other names were taken? Maybe not? At least give it some semblance of class. Something to aspire to. My 1/2 cent on the matter. 😉
Chris
Half,
Like BB I think it is a big mistake on their part to do such. My using it is my way of emphesizing it.
RR, Halfstep and all.
And you know Crosman has two lines of guns they make. The good ones and the Chasers if you know what I mean. AKA as in the Diana line of China guns.
By now ya all know how to determine what is what.
And ya all know that the other brands will still try to grab at the money with their off lines.
We all know what to buy. The problem is educating the others that don’t.
No need to compare. I know ya know what I mean.
BB,
I think many are going to be surprised at the performance of this air rifle as long as they keep in mind that it is a sproinger and will have a limited range as such. No, it will not likely do well at 100 yards, but that is not what it is meant for. At 25 yards this will be quite a thumper capable of dispatching quarry in the 20 to 50 pound range quickly and humanely. It will also still do well with smaller game though it will be a bit of overkill.
R.R.,
25-50# at 25 yards? I guess I have not been paying attention. That seems like a stretch, is all I am saying.
Chris
Chris,
Look at Edw’s response to me right below this. He has one and it it still putting out 20 FPE at 50 yards. My HM1000X in .357 is still carrying about 50 FPE at 100 yards. These large pellets are still carrying a lot of energy with them for a long way. I would not hesitate to shoot a coyote with this at 25 yards.
RR,
This is a 50yd+ rifle. I just got back from vacation and took mine with me. I was hitting 2.5″ off the bench with ease and at that point it was still in the low-mid 20fpe range. The big pellet will put more of the energy on target. My rws350 is near 30fpe, but at the same 50 yds is at about 15 fpe, and double the wind drift.
Edw,
Like I said, these are real thumpers. Maybe we can talk BB into trying it at 50 yards.
How does your trigger feel on this. I have this trigger on my Tomahawk and it is real sweet.
RR,
It’s not as good as a rekord or t06. It is much better than my Benjamin trail xl. I have a hatsan mod 25 also, both quattro triggers feel the same, so that consistantsy is good.
First off the triggers i experienced with mod 125 vortex sniper old style not QE first was around 3.5-4lb but smooth and was good for a heavy trigger as the break was clean however it had piston seal going and breech issue 2nd rifle trigger needed work to get these triggers adjusted getting best pull you need longer M3s i think and round off i sanded mine cock the gun aim it safe screw in stage 1 until it fires the back it off 3/4 turn and you will have eliminated most of stage one then do the same with stage 2 adjustment only back it out a full turn & make sure and test safe adjustments by moving trigger blade side to side as they have side to side slop to make sure it is not so sensitive that this movement can cause it to fire. Sure if you make this change and don’t exercise caution it can be adjusted so light that it is dangerous, but the old Hatsan Webley Patriots which were model135 came fully adjustable. It has been my experience with mine i can keep it safe very below 2lb i think in the old Webley literature they said not below 2.5lb or 2lb even i don’t remember for sure off hand.
By the way the direction of pull on a Quattro trigger blade matters think not pulling straight back try variations of up & back.
I find the high cocking force a bit odd as if you look at the power output of this rifle vs. the mod 125 in .177 .22 & .25 the power output published by Hatsan is identical for both rifles perhaps slight difference in piston size and or travel like in the old coil spring models. Anyhow i cock mine one handed and guess its 45-50lb and while i can put 100+ pellets through it in a day the next day not so much. My experience these guns dont do well at all with rests in fact the closest i have found to a working rest is 2 pillows over rail or sandbag with the hand holding on top of that and it takes experience getting that to work off hand slightly extended artillery hold and it acts vastly different than every other air rifle i own or have owned i have .25 and while i have no need or want of a .30 i can see how you might use it in certain conditions.
I know you test the gun as it comes shame though that you got such a poor out of box trigger. Good luck with this one i think you will need it.
Mike, this is my second post first time I posted on page one. I didn’t know any better anyways my 135 I got it in 25 cal also has that sloppy trigger side to side travel .I got a 95 brand new neither one of them’s never been shot I got an RMA number for it same problem with the trigger blade wobble. I did reach out to Hatsan USA they told me they would be glad to send me a label and check it out for me but I’m sure they probably wouldn’t do it for free.I return them to PA to the best of my knowledge they don’t work on hatsans I might be wrong. Michael on page one told me to shoot it sometimes you break the barrel load it and see if that don’t tighten it up a little bit hadn’t tried that yet haven’t had time to get away from here to go shoot. I guess I wouldn’t be too concerned about it but my 125 sniper I got trigger is fine I hadn’t touched it no adjustments made at all on it. I’ve looked everywhere and they are known to come with that travel side to side with trigger blade. Maybe I can take them both tomorrow and put a few down range in to see if it does tighten it up a little bit that’s basically all I know to do. Obviously no gunsmith here so what would you do? Any advice would be appreciated thanks a lot. Mag-Man
Mag-Man,
Shoot them and see. With the sear loaded, things ought to tighten up. Heck,… you do not even have to go anywhere to load and shoot to check the trigger. Just load and point to the ground and fire. If you are not happy, return them.
Chris, I normally go back home small little farm about 30 acres me and my brother usually meet there.We got us a small little range various targets and critters for that matter also.My dad has about 50 to 70 chickens,I’ve lost track of how many but the possums are thinning them out. I’m three stories up over looking a parking lot there’s not a tree within 500 yards of me.Cannot shoot here inside or out yeah I know it stinks. Anyways hopefully I can get up there tomorrow some time or the first part of the week just to see how the trigger reacts hoping in positive way cuz I’m definitely not used to that side to side action in the 95 .22 cal or the 135 .25 cal.Takes about 30 minutes to get there I’m used to it thanks a lot appreciate your advice! Mag-Man
Mag-Man,
My apologies. I forget that not everyone can just walk out there front door and plug a pellet into the grass or 25, or 50 or 100 yards. Best wishes on getting out to the farm and doing some shooting. It sounds as if you have a fair bit of pesting business to do as well. Keep us posted as to how things turn out.
Chris
B.B.
Nice report! Amazingly low velocity spread.
Heavy hunting gun where the pellet drops 4 inches at 25 yards and 6 inched at 30 yards, sounds more like a bench gun to me…..
-Y
Yogi,
Yeah, the trajectory would take some getting used to. Its not a real big deal – bows and slingshots have a pronounced trajectory but they are still very effective hunting weapons.
Think this is meant to be a hunter – at 15 cents (local prices) a shot in .30 it would be a bit expensive for bench shooting.
.30 is big and would be a great gun for pesting ground hogs and raccoons at close range where trajectory is not an issue.
For hunting out to 20-25 yards I would go for a .25 and for general all around shooting a .22 would be my choice. Talking to myself here – I don’t have a gas-spring rifle and am interested in getting one to try out.
Hank
Vana2,
Yes, the cost of .30 cal pellets is much more expensive, and the FPE is not any better than many .22 cal or .25 cal air rifles. I would much prefer pumping my PCP up once in a while as opposed to cocking this monster for every shot. Like I said in a previous comment, I do not see the applicability for this caliber in a springer. My .22 Urban is perfectly capable of taking out woodchucks or raccoons, and with the proper head shot, even larger pests. Accuracy over power every time, especially in a pellet airgun. If one really wanted a little more power than a .22 cal provides, a .25 caliber would be a better choice in my opinion.
Geo791,
Another thought about calibers…
With small game (rabbits and squirrels) and adequate power it makes sense to go with a larger caliber to expend more energy on target where smaller calibers “shoot through” and carry most of their energy down range.
The flip side to that thought is that for a given energy, a smaller caliber will give better penetration on larger game (raccoon to coyote size) and still transfer energy well.
Though the .22 is my favorite caliber I have settled on the .25 (906 fps/ 46 fpe) for hunting. Seems to be a good all around performer.
They are getting bold… Recently, the coyotes decoyed the neighbors dog (mid day!) into giving chase. The dog ran into an ambush and its history. I set up my own ambush and took out a 75 pound adult (head shot, full penetration) and a 40 pound young one (double lung hit, complete penetration) with my .25 PCP. The pack has since kept clear of my territory.
Agree that a PCP is better than a break barrel for the larger (than .22) calibers. I’d like to see a .22
caliber 750/850 fps gas-piston break barrel with a lower cocking force for general shooting. It would have to be a lot lighter as well.
Cheers,
Hank
Hank,
This is likely what you are looking for.
/product/sig-sauer-asp20-gas-piston-breakbarrel-air-rifle-synthetic?m=4598#8983
RR,
You got it right – that is the one that is on my short list! 🙂
Hank
Hank,
I have been giving it a lot of thought myself. I am wanting a “modern” .22 sproinger for “The Home”. I have a Diana 46E, but it is not what I want. If I can find the time to work on my Tomahawk it could work out, but this thing I think is it.
Hank
Also remember with a bigger caliber there is more chance at hitting than with a smaller diameter caliber.
Kind of the opposite when hunting compared to feild target.
With feild target you want a smaller pellet so it makes it through the target hole easier without touching the hole.
When hunting the biggest the diameter projectile the better. That way you have more contact area from the pellet or bullet. So if your aim is off or the projectile is off a bit from aim point the more likely you will hit with a bigger diameter projectile.
Hank,
Nice work there Rambo! Way to go!
Chris
Chris,
I suckered them in with a “rabbit in distress” predator call.
I am careful using that call – last time I was out for fox I had a bear come to the call – scared the heck out of me because I didn’t see it until it was VERY close! For something THAT big they can sure move quietly!
Hank
Hank,
I have seen them in use on video. At least the ones that seem motorized and whip “something” around and make noise. Of course there is just calls. At any rate, very nice. We have them here, but I have never seen one. I thought that they were hunted more at night? Spotlight and infrared I suppose? I did have one wake me up one night howling away that could not have been more than 40′ from my window, but never laid eyes on it. Heard packs howling in the distance at night when leaving for work early in the morning.
We do have some Bears over in Eastern Ohio, so I hear. A couple of reports on the news of them getting hit, like deer.
As fun as life seems to be in the great “up North”,…. I am kind of a fan of living where I do not have to worry about things EATING ME! 😉
Chris
Hank,
Your coyotes must be quite a bit bigger than the ones that roam Kentucky. I’m visualizing a 75 pound, outside dog and can say I have never seen any of our coyotes that were that big, nor would I want to. I guess lunching on nice fat house pets puts the weight on ’em.
Half
Half,
Seems that bigger bodied animals are better at surviving the cold Canadian winters. Our deer are good sized as well, this year’s fawns are 50-60 pounds, last year’s are around 150 pounds. One of the does that live on my property is pushing 200 pounds – picture of “Lilly” attached.
I didn’t weight the coyote but it was bigger than my neighbors German Shepard which weighs 65 pounds.
Hank
Hank
Again, nor would I want to. Geezzz!
Half
Wow! You have some huge coyotes over there in Canada. We have coyotes around here but I don’t think they get that large. BTW, what is your .25? You have probably commented about it but I don’t remember. I have a Crosman Nitro Venom (gas spring), a Diana RWS 34P, and the latest is my Gamo Urban, all in .22 caliber.
Geo791,
My .25 is an FX Royale 500. I have a pair (.177 and .22) of Weihrauch HW100 FAC PCPs which I like very much.
Except for my old Crosman 101 my other PCP, SSP and sproingers are .177.
Hank
Check out how much energy it retains though:
Edw,
That is the appeal, I guess.
Half
B.B.,
Not a question often asked of subsonic springers, but how is the report?
I seem to recall that a heavier projectile will retain more energy downrange than will a lighter projectile over the same distance. True?
If so, this might be the choice of springer for short-range pesting if the pests are on the large side. That is a narrow niche, but then again, I suppose it is a need that comes up often for folks in certain areas.
Michael
Michael,
It’s about average for a springer. Not a mega-magnum springer, just a regular one.
B.B.
I just posted a pic of energy retention. But to answer the noise question…it’s pretty loud. it made my wife come into the garage to find out what I was doing. My guess would be it sounds like a framing nailer.
B.B
Can you include some pics of the pellets, maybe with some other calibers for comparison?
Carl
https://i0.wp.com/www.grandviewoutdoors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/PX_Diabolo_1.jpg?fit=775%2C500&ssl=1
Kevin,
Thanks.
Carl,
Yes, I can include some pellet pix.
B.B.
Kevin
Thanks for the link! I really want to see the .30 predator pellets bet they look wicked.
Carl
B.B.,
Congratulations on the Hy Score 816! If all it needs are seals that’s a deal.
The Hatsan 135 you’re testing in .30 caliber is the antithesis of what has always appealed to me in a springer. Nonetheless, I find myself intrigued. Maybe it’s the gas spring, the huge caliber, the tight velocity spreads, the novelty or all of the above.
Hope JSB continues to produce .30 caliber pellets or this will be a short lived novelty.
Speaking of limited pellet choices for your accuracy testing portion of this series, please consider removing the plastic tip from the predator pellets and testing them as a 4th pellet when you move beyond 10 meters. Two reasons for this:
1-Many of the plastic tips in predator pellets become offset and at distance this affects accuracy
2-I’d like you to have at least one arm that looks like Popeye’s
Kevin,
Arrrgh! I’m strong to the finish ’cause I eats me spinach!
Okay, pellet tips off for beyond 10 meters. Don’t have very many of them, just one tin.
B.B.
Waiting for the accuracy test. That will tell the story as usual. And not at 10 yards. If I get a .30 caliber, whatever the power plant is it better show itself farther out than 10 yards. 25 yards is doable at a inch. But would like to see a inch out at 35 yards. Then the gun becomes more interesting.
GF1,
That’s what I think, too. If I can get an inch at 25 yards this rifle is a winner. After all, the pellets it shoots are nearly a third of an inch wide!
B.B.
BB
Right pellet mass is about diameter too. The bigger the diameter if it’s accurate. The more chance of hitting said target.
Agree with you. This caliber would not be one to plink with either, due to the cost of pellets.
Like war, what is it good for? If I want to build muscle I’ll just use my bowflex, thank you 🙂
After all, this is still just a springer pellet airgun. I think that the .25 caliber is a much better
option in an airgun, unless you are using a PCP in a larger caliber for big game hunting.
Geo
This .30 caliber Hatsan could be a good tool if it turns out to be accurate.
It will be a heck of a pesting gun if it’s accurate at 25 yards.
Remember it don’t need no PCP pump.
If it is indeed accurate. It might make me take the plunge to the dark side of a .30 caliber big bore. I don’t want to spend the extra cost of another caliber. But if it gets me into that other caliber and I step into the pcp side and it’s accurate and shoots at longer distances than .25 caliber plus more foot pounds of energy and bigger mass diameter. Well then I just might drop the .25 caliber pellets and gun I have. And remember I’m talking stepping up to a .30 caliber PCP.
You got to start somewhere.
GF1,
I did another fast/slow shooting test with another CO2 gun yesterday. I used one of my 1077s and 8 clips in 8 different magazines and fired with a 2 second delay between shots. Changing out each spent mag took about 5 seconds. Then I did the same with a 20 second delay between shots. I was shooting Crosman Precision Competition Wadcutters from the milk carton package.
I’ll post the results now.
Halfstep
Well if I’m looking right. The first part of the cartridge produces the higher velocity no matter how much you wait between shots.
So the 1077 seems to be fairly efficient on Co2 too.
Now to see what happens with a WildFire in those conditions. That will tell the difference maybe of those gun’s anyway in Co2 or HPA.
And I know my M22 definitely slows down when rapid firing compared to waiting about 3 seconds between shots.
I’m thinking my rapid fire is faster than what your calling rapid fire. 2 seconds is a long time in my book when I do rapid fire shooting.
GF1,
Oh I can shoot faster, my chronograph just won’t record it if it’s that fast. Without the record, all this would be pointless, since there couldn’t be any analysis afterwards.
Half
Halfstep
I’m sure you can shoot faster. My thoughts all along is I’m surprised your getting that good of readings out of your chrony at 2 second intervals.
GF1,
That 2 seconds was a guesstimate on my part. I just now timed myself for 3 ten shot strings, shooting at the cadence that I did for this last test, and the average turns out to be 10 shots in 10.5 seconds, so I’m gonna call it 1 sec per shot on that last test. The 20 seconds was timed with a stopwatch from the start so that is the same.
I did some other tests yesterday that may or may not interest you, but I hoped it would be of interest to someone.
I have often wondered if how you load a 1077 made any difference in shot count and velocity stability. I bought a bunch of extra magazines, as well as rotary clips, immediately after I bought my guns, so I have always shot them with everything loaded up ahead of time. That lets me just pop in a fresh mag after I finish one off. The clips are cheap, but the mags are kind of expensive and I figured a lot of folks would be unable to afford a lot of mags or would be unwilling to buy them if they didn’t offer some clear advantage over just buying clips and keeping them loaded and ready during the shooting session. So I did this test.
It takes me about 10 seconds to pull a mag, take out the clip, put in a preloaded clip, and get the mag back in the gun. It takes about 55 seconds for me to pull the mag, take out the clip, put 12 pellets into the clip, put the clip back into the mag and reinsert the mag into the gun. That is a difference of 45 seconds in warm up between mags, so I did it both ways and charted and graphed the results. I didn’t actually do all the fumbling around that would have caused me to tense up under pressure, I’m sure, and ruin the test. I had everything preloaded and just used a stopwatch to tell me when to start firing. I fired at a 1 second rate (as it turns out) between shots.
Anyone that wants to know how the mags and clips impact velocity lose or instability from being able to fire that many shots that fast can compare the first half of the test above to this test’s results. I personally think the clips alone would have been plenty for me if I had it to do over.
Half
GF1,
I wouldn’t have thought that would happen since air only cools a fraction of what CO2 cools upon expansion. Have you fired that M22 over a chronograph to verify how much it slows? Does the shot count change significantly between fast and 3 sec delay? What do you think is causing it? I’m not familiar with the gun. Unregulated, I assume? What caliber, also?
Half
Halfstep
The M22 is Co2 not air. Is that what you was thinking that it was running on air.
And no chrony on that pistol. And I can see poi drop when I rapid fire it and the blow back isn’t as abrubt either after the mag of bb’s is almost empty.
GF1,
My bad. I Googled M22 and the first hit I got was for a Snowpeak(SMK) Chinese PCP rifle. Apparently their Artemis is also designated M22. Told ya I wasn’t familiar. I found the one I guess you are referring to. Air Venturi brand? I’ll give it a closer look later. I guess I should have known I was on the wrong track when I saw that the first M22 was a bolt action, Duh. Just didn’t occur to me at the time.
Still curious why you would think a PCP action gun would behave like a CO2 gun, though.
Half
Halfstep
I don’t see anywhere were I said a PCP action gun would behave like a Co2 gun.
I did say this.
“Now to see what happens with a WildFire in those conditions. That will tell the difference maybe of those gun’s anyway in Co2 or HPA.”
Notice I say the “difference” of those gun’s. Nothing about behaving the same.
And here’s the pistol I’m talking about.
/product/issc-m-22-co2-air-pistol?m=3773
GF1,
I understand, now that you have explained it, what you were saying. I feel certain the performance would be completely different.
It looks like that gun is no longer available at Pyramyd. Is it out of production? Do you remember the ballpark price on it? I don’t know a lot about Glocks, but it looks like it could be a reasonable stand-in for a Glock and it has recoil, while the new Glock licensed copy does not.
I’d like to hear more about the gun. My brother is a Glock “worshiper” and he thinks airguns are silly. Do you think this gun could win him over? I know that he would think the non-blowback “official” Glock was unimpressive, because in this age of blow back BB and pellet guns, I’m unimpressed and disappointed with it.
Half
Halfstep
From what I remember the firearm version of the M22 pistol was in .22 rimfire. Don’t think it came in any other calibers.
And no I don’t remember what the bb version cost. I think it was maybe a little more than a hundred dollars.
I’ll let you draw your own conclusion on this one. I personally
Half think the fast shooting would work just fine for most action shooting as long as the range was kept reasonable.
I don’t Half think, I full think it.:-)
I don’t know how that happened.
Half
Halfstep
I replied when your other 2 comments weren’t there yet.
But yes my rapid fire shooting is faster than yours. So don’t know if the results would be the same in my case.
GF1 and Chris USA,
I also shot the plastic Blasters BBs out of the 1077 and the good news is that they averaged 745 fps for 12 shots. The bad news is that the rifled barrel grouped them in over 4 inches at 12.5 yards. I don’t know whether that’s good enough for what you had in mind or not. I wouldn’t have any use for them at that rate.
Half
Halfstep
No good for me on the plastic blaster bb’s at 12.5 yards.
I plinking at around 15-35 yards. And 15 yards is is really closer than I like. For a few reasons. Mostly too close for ricochet’s. Even with pellets. And when shooting Co2 especially when rapid firing.
BB,
I think you should plan on a 50yard test with this one. Put a drooper mount on it first!
OK, this is way off subject and I am probably late to the show with this but…
https://hardairmagazine.com/reviews/benjamin-fortitude-air-rifle-test-review-22-caliber/
It is looking very promising.
RR,
My .177 Fortitude just arrived today. Hopefully I will start the report next week.
B.B.
BB,
I am awaiting this report as well. .177 is the caliber that interests me the most.
Half
BB,
Awesome! I myself would prefer .22, but I already have a 12 FPE Edge and several .177 sproingers. I think this one is going to be another big winner for “Velocity Outdoors”.
A bit off topic…
Just watched a video of a guy hand swagging large caliber pellets. Interesting to see how he goes about it…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnmkWWs6eOQ
I’ve looked into the Corbin swaging kits. It looks cool. But the downside is that you need soft lead, so it wouldn’t do for recovered lead,unless you reused pellets and made wire. But on the upside you could make a pellet with a perfect fit for your barrel.
http://www.corbins.com/ammo/pellets.htm
Edw,
The mold the guy was using looked to be very nicely machined – and expensive! Might be a bit tricky to get one the right size for a perfect fit. I’ll check out the Corbin swagging kits out of curiosity… I have a 6-ton electric log-splitter that would probably work well 🙂 Thanks for the link!
I am in the process of making a mold to cast lead balls for my slingshots. If I was going to make (big bore) pellets I would probably cast them.
Hank
Hank,
I gave it a quick look,… maybe 3 min., jumping. Very nice looking end product. Very nice. It does look like a fair bit of work though, not to mention the specialized equipment.
Chris
Hey Chris USA,
Sounds a bit like measuring pellet weight with a battery powered digital scale!!! Or even a very spendy lab quality digital with a flourecent light over the bench and your cell phone and laptop nearby.
Instead of using a balance beam scale! Of course even that is effected by the flourecent ballast and the electromagnetics of the cell phone and laptop along with that magnetized screwdriver and tool holder!
You need to recalibrate the process if the pressure varies, the BN of the lead is different, the temperature has changed and or swaged product pops out flawed!
We are all alchemists trying to find a way to turn pot metal into GOLD! Translated to a cheap and EASY route to accuracy and precision! Instead of working intelligently on all the fundamentals of shooting.
Is THAT frank enough!
shootski
Shootski,
Yes,… that was pretty good! 🙂 And yes,.. while still desiring “perfect” pellets,… I shall spend the time sorting,.. on boning up on fundamentals instead. While descent now,.. I am trying to eeek out that final bit of accuracy and perhaps even more, consistency.
I most likely will hit you up for an answer or opinion in the future, so just a heads up! 🙂
Chris
Chris USA,
You and anyone else is always welcome to ask me for my opinion or to answer a question. I will only supply informed opinions or honest answers to the best of my ability. It apperars that is the standard B.B. has set for the Airgun Academy Blog and that most all of the readership holds fast to that standard.
shootski
Chris,
Don’t know how much the mold would cost but considering the cost of the big bore pellets it might be relaxing to spend an evening “rolling your own”.
Hank
BB,
I previously mentioned how I was able to get the Quattro trigger on my 135 down to a Very nice pull. If it wasn’t such a liability issue, I believe the factory adjustment screws would be about 1mm or so longer. Ah well,these are the times in which we live where everything Has to be utterly idiot-proof. I too was suprised at how consistent and “Well mannered” this howitzer was! I would actually shoot it a hell of a lot more if the ammo was a tad cheaper. Again,enjoy the test…and try not to throw Your back outta whack cocking the damn thing!