by Tom Gaylord, The Godfather of Airguns™
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Parts 1 & 2
Part 3
Testing the BSF S20 and the Webley Hurricane
Beeman P1 is a powerful, accurate spring pistol.
This report covers:
• Where does the P1 fit?
• Which is best — Scorpion or P1?
• The accuracy test
• Crosman Premier pellets
• RWS Hobby pellets
• RWS Superdome pellets
• Analysis
• Something to remember
• Blog navigation: One more change…and we want your feedback
Today, I’ll finish the test of spring pistol accuracy at 10 meters. I’m using the same pellets and holds that have been used throughout this test, so it’s apples to apples. This time, I’m testing the Beeman P1. I’d also said I would test the Beeman P17; but since it’s not a spring gun, that’s mixing things up too much.
Where does the P1 fit?
We’ve now looked at the accuracy of 3 powerful vintage spring pistols — the BSA Scorpion, the BSF S20 Target and the Webley Hurricane. Today’s question is how does the P1 compare to these handguns?
First and foremost, the P1 is as powerful or, perhaps, slightly more powerful than the BSA Scorpion that was the clear power champ among the vintage guns. Mine puts out 7.9-grain Crosman Premier pellets at an average 508 f.p.s., compared to the Scorpion’s 497 f.p.s. average. So, they’re very close. Hobbys go out of the P1 at an average 553 f.p.s., and from the Scorpion they exit at 545 f.p.s. So, the power of the 2 airguns is pretty much equivalent.
The P1 cocks with less effort than the Scorpion, and no cocking aid is required. Once cocked, the P1 is harder to load, because the space at the breech is tight and also located inside the upper half of the receiver. The P1 trigger has it all over the Scorpion trigger. Not only is it adjustable, it’s as crisp as you could ever want.
The sights on the P1 are finely adjustable, just like the sights on the Scorpion. I would call it a wash between the two guns.
The P1 holds like a 1911 firearm, while the Scorpion has an ergonomic pistol grip that sits below the barrel. When the Scorpion fires, the gun bounces in your hand. When the P1 fires, the sensation is more solid.
Which is best — Scorpion or P1?
It probably sounds like I favor the P1, and that’s true. I like the Scorpion, also, but I favor the P1 over it. That said, the 2 guns are pretty much equivalent in everything but size. The P1 is even smaller than the Webley Hurricane, and the Scorpion is the largest air pistol in this test. So, I can’t pick a winner. In some categories, one gun beats the other, but in other categories the reverse is true.
Accuracy is a big part of why we shoot. The outcome of today’s test will suggest which gun is the winner, or at least which gun seems to dominate the others. At this point, the Scorpion is leading, with the Webley Hurricane running a close second.
The accuracy test
I decided to shoot the P1 under the same conditions as the other 3 pistols. While the 3 pellets used in the previous tests may not be the most accurate in any of the guns, all had to shoot them and should give a general indication of accuracy. All are accurate pellets that I also use in many other tests, so nothing strange is being done.
Crosman Premier pellets
The first pellet I tried was the Crosman Premier lite (7.9-grain) dome. Shooting from a rested 2-hand hold, I put 10 pellets into a 1.454-inch group at 10 meters. That’s not very good! The Scorpion put 10 of the same pellets into a 0.699-inch group. That’s less than half the size!.
Premier lite pellets did not do well in the P1. Ten went into 1.454 inches.
RWS Hobby pellets
Next up were 10 RWS Hobby pellets. They did better, going into a group that measures 0.996 inches between centers. Nine of those pellets went into 0.653 inches. In the Scorpion, Hobbys made a group that measures 1.016 inches.
RWS Hobbys did much better. Ten went into 0.996 inches, with 9 in 0.653 inches.
RWS Superdome pellets
The final pellet I tested was the RWS Superdome. Ten pellets made a group measuring 1.257 inches, with no clumping of pellets within the group. In sharp contrast, the Scorpion put 10 Superdomes into 0.877 inches, with 9 of them in 0.592 inches.
Ten RWS Superdomes made this 1.257-inch group. Also not very impressive.
Analysis
From these test results, I have to say the BSA Scorpion was the clear winner among all 4 spring-piston air pistols tested. I also have to say that I was not expecting such a result. As large and powerful as the Scorpion is, I expected it to throw its pellets all over the place, instead of stacking one on top of the other.
But before we condemn the P1, remember, that I’ve tested it before. Look at what it did at the same 10 meters with 5 RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets 3 years ago.
Five RWS R10 Match Pistol pellets at 10 yards went into 0.375 inches at 10 meters.
Something to remember
So the P1 is an accurate air pistol. You just have to use the pellets it likes. But the real lesson of this whole test is how accurate and powerful the BSA Scorpion turned out to be. That’s something to remember.
Blog navigation: One more change…and we want your feedback
Yesterday, Edith and I spoke with the president of Pyramyd AIR about the blog format and navigation changes that were made last week. Many of you commented on those changes — both positive and negative, and we’ve shared them with Pyramyd AIR.
We are going to test another change but are not sure it will enhance the blog experience. We’re going to implement it, however Pyramyd AIR said they’d reverse it if the blog readers didn’t like it.
Currently, we have one full blog on the home page (/blog). The link at the bottom of the home page for previous posts doesn’t take you to the posts for yesterday and earlier. It takes you to posts written 7 days prior to the current day. To make those links work properly, we have to show 7 blogs on the home page. We have a choice of showing 7 excerpted blogs or 7 full blogs. Before last week’s changes, we showed 7 full blogs on the home page. Now, we’re going to show 7 excerpted blogs on the home page. In order to read the current day’s blog, you’ll have to click on a READ MORE link.
You’re already experiencing excerpted pages if you look at the archives or if you’ve done a search on the blog. Click here to see an example of an excerpted blog page. We just wanted to give you a heads up, and we plan to make this change in a day or so.
I have a Beeman 20th annavercery P1 magnum. last night I started looking for a good pellet. Thanks for saving me some time. I will check out the B10 pellets.
My P1 likes JSB 8.4 grain pellets best. They shoot around 520 fps. This is a very hold sensitive gun and I was so frustrated with it at first. I put a heavy 11mm to picatinny adapter on it and a Bushnell 3 moa dot sight. The extra mass toned down the barrel jump and the fine dot improved aiming precision considerably over the iron sights. Consistent finger pressure in bottom 2 fingers is key to limit vertical stringing and proper curl using tip of trigger finger without bending at the knuckle reduces sideways pull.
RacerX,
That’s R10 pellets.
B.B.
Thanks BB
I followed the link . That is from
One AM reading the Blog.
What ever format you use and what ever makes it easy for you. Just keep up the good work. I look forward to it every day. And read back on weekends when I have time.
Racer X: You might want to try the RWS Super Mags at 9.3 or 9.5 grains. I have been using them in my P-1 for years on the recommendation of my dealer. They buffer the mainspring nicely and are exceedingly stable down range as evidenced by nice round holes in the target paper. The only caveat is that I have to size them in my pellet sizer or they tend to blow out the breech seal!
My P-1 has had tens of thousands of rounds through it. It is my favorite air pistol and is almost cheating when shooting targets. Mr. Gaylord’s earlier test bull is the kind of results I usually get from my P-1 when I’m having a good target session. Not having a chronometer, however, means that I do not know the FPS.
I use a two-hand hold and cradle the pistol therein. I shoot left-handed. I usually find my right index finger extended down the right side of the pistol to slightly dampen the thing. The trigger is perfect and set in its original factory setting (other than the “polish” from the thousands of shot cycles).
Another pistols surprise! In general the P1 is far superior to the other ‘big and dumb’ pistols, though personally I do not like it, I’m not a fan of look-alike pistols in any case and this one does not really look alike at all, its far more top heavy than the 1911 it imitates. I have never been happy using it, though it can be blindingly accurate. It would be interesting to see you test the BSA 240 magnum, BSA’s last airpistol, and overlever like the P1 but with ‘automatic’ lines. Much smaller and handier that the Scorpion.
Problem with changing blog formats are all the subsequent things you have to change. No problem I think with abbreviated posts on a main page with a read more button. I actually prefer that to the current one main post a page.
Oliver,
I owned a BSA 240 pistol and could never get it to shoot well. It was powerful, but just not accurate for me.
B.B.
Couldn’t sleep so decided to read today’s blog. The abbreviated blog idea is interesting. What it means to me right off the top is that if you’re blogging on a airgun that has no interest to me, I’d be tempted to skip the blog. I’ll withhold further judgement and see how the new layout performs for my tastes and interests and give you and Edith my feedback after a week or so.
Fred DPRoNJ
I can tell you already that I wont like the read more style page.
On slower machines and connections it will mean more time waiting
for pages to load and the more pic heavy the article is the slower it will be.
Also it could cause more slowdowns if we want to go back and reread
certain parts,I do this a lot.
Oh and by the way,the link to go to older posts is showing yesterdays
APX Multi-pump report.
Just my .02 🙂
Of course, I have to be different. When I click on the Previous Post link, I go back to the Fort Worth Show Part 1 dated September 8th. If I click it again, I go back to the Dan Wesson Part 3 dated August 28th. I get those full reports and no others, abbreviated or otherwise. When I click on Next Post, I come back up that progression.
I guess I will just have to shut down, reboot, hit all the F buttons, stand on one foot and bellow out a sea chantey, then see what happens next.
As far as the pistols are concerned, since you seem so disappointed in the performance of the P1, perhaps you should just send it to me. I promise I will take good care of it. While you are at it, since the performance of the Hurricane was not up to expectations either, throw it in the box with the P1 and save shipping charges.
That is exactly what he described. No amount of shutting down will change it. That is how those buttons work right now. If you go to the archive and select this month the layout will let you see each days articles.
I told you I was different. I read 7 days prior, not seven blog posts prior.
RidgeRunner,
You are describing a problem with the Previous Posts link that was described in today’s blog — and the very reason we want to make a change to the home page. It IS frustrating, isn’t it?
Edith
Oh, I am sure you guys will get it all straightened out sometime.
RR
Do you still have that FWB 300? Or did G&G get it from you?
GF1,
I still have both of them. I have not had time in the last few weeks to do anything. I have been moving my mother-in-law from a three bedroom house to a two bedroom apartment and getting rid of everything that doesn’t fit. I think this weekend will be the first chance my wife and I will have a day for us, I hope.
RR
If I remember right you said you wanted to keep one. Did G&G ever say if he wanted one?
If he does still want one then let him have it. If he doesn’t want one let me know how much you want for one. Thanks
It is the sea chanty that does it….
The abbreviated article idea is great! It’s 2014 so even my phone is more than fast enough to open a bunch of tabs at once. Which is exactly how I like to read. Browse the archive, open a new tab for each article I find appealing and then read them.
It is not like we are using 14.4k modems on 486s anymore. I welcome this change enthusiastically.
We’re not? No wonder my Commodore 64 has been pitching a fit.
In all seriousness though, I still use a flip phone, I do not text and only recently upgraded to a Windows 7 laptop at home because the software I needed to run did not care for Windows 2000 Professional.
I try to live by the philosophy that just because you can does not mean you should. Yeah, I’m a dinosaur. Please pass the triceratops.
RR
Huh, …………. I thought I was the only person still using a flip phone.
David H
Captain Kirk used a flip-phone.
I’m going BACK to a flip phone after a year with a smart phone. I found I almost never use any of the “smart” features, I miss having a battery life measured in days and most of all I discovered that I loathe touch screens. My experience with a smart phone reminds me of what an Air Canada pilot friend of mine says about flying an Airbus: “You’re always saying one of three things. Why is it doing that? What’s it doing now?!?, and Look! It’s doing it again!”
RR
You are not alone as I much prefer the old skool ways to all the new keep up with the jones’s new techno gadgetry that is obsolete by the time you get it home. I just upgraded from windows xp to windows 8 because Microsoft was not supporting it any more. I now feel as lost as a small child in a giant mall looking for his parents.
I say if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, and change is not always good or necessary.
Buldawg
I heard XP was losing support. It’s all I’ve ever felt comfortable using. I have no idea what I’ll have to learn once it gets bad enough.
Reb
Microsoft quit supporting windows XP back in April un less you are willing to pay then like 200 buck a month for continued support. I called and asked why and they told me it was to old of an operating system and that there were not enough people still using it to continue to provide support along with support for Vista, windows 7 and 8. Its just like everything else once it is ten years old the manufacture does not have to provide ant type of support for their product .
Buldawg
Work pays me to have a smartphone. They pay me based on a Verizon plan cost and since I have Tmobile I end up making money on the deal.
I do not have windows computers, strictly OSX and Linux here.
I am not talking about spending money you don’t have, but come on no computer sold in the last decade is going to have a problem with this.
Tom,
Despite Feinwerk’s experience with his P1, in your May 6, 2011 report, a third installment in a series you did then on the P1/HW 45, you advised a special artillery hold for the pistol which is the exact opposite of Feinwerk’s technique. The “Lt. Col. Edward Bonsall Hold” for the 1911A1 is what you then suggested for the P1: squeeze the grip against the web of your hand with only the middle finger, and “the other two fingers apply absolutely no pressure on the gun. They’re just along for the ride. The thumb also puts no pressure on the gun. Only that middle finger squeezing straight back.”
Perhaps the Scorpion, P1, and Hurricane all might deserve a retest using this hold? I include the Hurricane because both it and the P1 have springs that snap backwards, the opposite of most springers, no?
Michael
Well put.
Michael,
Thanks for the suggestion, but I think this will be the end of this test.
B.B.
Tom,
Fair enough.
I admit to having an affection for my first-ever serious pellet gun, the Hurricane (I have ambidextrous walnut target grips on mine), and also the Beeman P1, as I am a lefty. I have never shot a Scorpion as a left-hander cannot properly do so. I also find the Hurricane and P1 recoil a lot like the recoil on CO2 pistols with blowback. The muzzle flips upward and the pistol as a whole pushes a bit backwards in the hand.
Michael
I read this too and attempted to develop a loose hold with no pressure on the grip with the bottom fingers, allowing the gun to jump freely in my hands. At that point, the slightest variation in trigger finger placement and finger curl would move the poi around. I forgot to mention that I also installed molded pachmeyer grips which feel great and provide consistent finger placement. I then went back to placing all trigger hand fingers on the grip with moderate, not firm, but consistent pressure on ring and pinky. Thumbs of both hands do NOT touch the frame to avoid side pressure on it as it jumps during firing.
I’m right handed. The fingers of my left hand gently lay over rh fingers except for left forefinger, which I extend under the center of the trigger guard to carry muzzle weight and leave my right trigger finger unloaded. This allows gentle curl control of trigger finger for the release.
It took me quite a while to develop this hold. Consistency is the key, as with all springers. With my forearms rested, I have been able to group 1″ @20 yd, but it took a lot of practice! Thought I’d never be able to shoot it well at first, but patience paid off. Hope this helps you P1 owners, good luck.
Feinwerk
As I just pulled my P1 out last night and I have thousands of rounds through it. I am excited to try this new hold.
I have many many hours with 1911 model firearms. This should be fun
I tried this hold with my P1. I shot a number of different pellets and tried different rest positions for my arm. I used the hold as you describe.i did to many different things to be dock notice on anything. Much more testing is in order. But right off the bat I can say the follow through is much better. I say that because I use a scope and I can keep the target in view throughout the shot cycle.
I also noticed the better pellet still grouped about the same. But the pattern was centered better on the target.
I also am not a fan of the giant handgun thing. The P1 with the scope is not a bulked up as some pistols with scopes. The barrel cover is the scope mount and over all it is not bad.
My Beeman tempest is still my favorite little pellet gun.
I like the abbreviate post format. As someone pointed out, it’s easier when reading on a smart phone.
Regarding the P1, is there any reader of this blog who has used it to practice for rimfire bullseye? I have read it has a similar feel than the SW41.
TE
Tom,
Another question. Is the P1, which is Desert Eagle sized, really smaller than the Webley Hurricane?
Michael
Michael,
I just compared them. They are comparable. The P1 is thicker in many dimensions and the Hurricane is slightly longer is some ways.
B.B.
Tom,
Well, after doing a bit of research: Desert Eagle–10.8 inches, Beeman P1–11 inches, Webley Hurricane–11.3 inches.
I stand corrected.
Michael
B.B., thanks for testing the P1 and reporting on it. As for the blog, the changes you speak of sound much like the way cruising the “archives” has always been, or when doing a search. I know we are all individuals so I think you know that I am speaking for myself when I say the next change should pose not problem. ~Ken
Tom
I much prefer the original format.
Regards.
Vasco,
What did you like about the original format or what do you dislike about the new format?
Thanks,
Edith
Edith,
Perhaps I’m not very observant, but everything here looks the same and works the same as it always has, at least as far as I can tell.
Anyway, if things have changed, I must not be bothered by the changes, because I can’t even tell what the changes are!
Michael
I like the blog format. Easy to navigate.
The P1 looks like a nice pistol.
But I just like that nostalgia look of the old Scorpion. If I had a choice of one or the other it would be the Scorpion.
Today is proof of the importance of pellets and also a reminder to save your old targets. Some of mine went with min my move just to remind me of what’s possible.
Buldawg, I always thought it would be great to have a range of experiences like you did if you could survive it, and you have. 🙂 Yes, I figured the comparison with the 397 was not really fair.
Gunfun1, good man. Bearing in mind that ammo is the major expense for most rifles and that there is still a fair amount of surplus available, you will be in good shape with your Garand.
Matt61
Thanks Matt. I think I could make a Garand work for me.
My problem will be to know if I’m getting a good one or not. Is there certain years that are better than others? I really have no idea. That’s why I’m asking. Are there certain things to look for?
All most all of the M-1 rifles out there have been rebuilt at some point. So, the year of manufacture isn’t critical for a shooter. As with any rifle, check the overall condition, if it looks good it probably is. Next, check the barrel, is the crown worn or damaged? How does the barrel throat look? Work the action, the spring should feel firm. If you can it’s always a good idea to have a gunsmith look it over. But, if you have a good barrel, almost anything else can be fixed with out a lot of trouble.
Mike
Thanks Mike.
I didn’t know if there was certain ones to stay away from.
I want to get one that I can shoot on occasion’s and do the initial cost and hopefully not have to put any extra money in it.
Just take it out to the range and enjoy it here and there.
gunfun,
I’d go straight to the CMP (Civilian Marksmanship Program) and buy one of their in-house rebuilt Garands. Assuming you’re a shooter rather than a collector, you can get an original receiver with a new stock, new barrel, and whatever new parts it may need, head spaced and ready to go.
Price? A little over a grand including a hard case and shipping.
Damn good deal.
Bear in mind, the .30-06, as fine a cartridge as ever existed, is no longer a standard issue round and surplus ammo is in ever shorter supply and ain’t never going to get better. However, 7.62 X 51 Nato, (and for practical purposes, .308 Winchester) is a standard issue military round and likely to be available for the foreseeable future.
Guess what? The CMP Garand is available in 7.62/.308…same price. My Garand is in 7.62 and has worked flawlessly for over 20 years.
Your path is clear. Go for it.
103David, sorry for jumping in on the conversation, I just looked at their website and it’s a very interesting organization. Military surplus rifles, airguns, shooting competitions, Wow, very cool and excellent info thanks. I am looking to get licensed and own a powder burner myself and that looks like it is a good deal and they have other guns and options too! But one question are you shooting 7.62×51 NATO or .308? From what I know their similar enough to be chambered in the same gun but some say you should only shoot whatever one the gun was designed for? The website says the Garands are .308 so are they suggesting the same that the rifle should only use the .308 round? Also of major importance is their requirement that you be a member of their affiliate clubs? I must have missed the club list on their site? I’ll go back and look again.
David
It will definitely be a shooter. It won’t be often. Maybe once a month to the range. And out to my brother’s if the coyotes start harassing again.
And all good info on where to get one and the ammo.
Is one of those two rounds more forgiving than the other. Like does one recoil less? And does one round make less stress on the gun?
!03david
You have to be in certain clubs or organizations to be able to buy from the CMP such as ROTC, JROTC, 4-H, American legion, VFW and so on . I am not sure all the one you can belong to and be able to purchase from them. We have one of the two CMP ranges and refurbishment facilities here in Anniston Alabama and I go to there range to sight in my low powered air guns on their electronic scoring systems because you can sight in your gun to hit the head of a pencil eraser laying length wise facing you at ten meters. I do know if you are an American legion member it allows you to buy from them. Their website will give you all the info you need to buy and become a member.
http://thecmp.org/
Buldawg
Rica & Gunfun & Buldawg,
The real difference between 7.62 x51 NATO and .308 is the NATO round is held to very rigid pressure/projectile weights/case capacity/etc to make the cartridge useable in everything from a Garand to a M14 to a M60 to a co-ax on a M1A1 tank to a minigun to a FAL to a…well, you get the idea. And just go make it interesting, function with wherever made the object to hand was, whether the US, Britain, Spain, or any other NATO country. If you reload, supposedly you’re to use a particular primer requiring a much stronger primer strike to preclude the dreaded “slam-fire” that Garands and M14’s are heir to.
While this is indeed a bad thing (discharging before the bolt is fully closed and locked) it applies more to say, a 7.62/.30-06 Browning A4 or A6, or any full-powered semi- or full-auto weapon firing from an open bolt. Having, in my time, fired more of these cartridges from the aforementioned weapons than most people have ever even seen, much less handled, much less fired, I’ve never personally run across this phenom nor know any credible acquaintances that have.
Please note, by the way, I’m carefully not giving any actual reloading data…I don’t want the liability. But reloading for these cartridges is easy and extremely well documented. Investing in an inexpensive press with the proper dies and such will pay for itself in the first one or two or three sessions.
The reservations about the .308 Winchester (vs 7.62 NATO) have more to do with it being a civilian cartridge without the restrictions of standard pressures/ velocities/ projectile weights and such. In other words, you can make them with much higher specs or down-load them to equal a .32ACP. That won’t work the semi-auto mechanism of an M14 or A4 Browning so good.
And by the way, the only real difference between .30-06 and 7.62 NATO is that the cartridge is 1/4 inch shorter with a proportional weight reduction. Everything else is the same. Makes your gun smaller and lighter yet still shoots the same projectile with the same velocity with the same range and same impact on target. Ignore couch commandos claiming the .30-06 is more powerful. It’s not, to any realistic degree, certainly not in any way that will make your Garand happy.
Believe me, this is an attribute any Grunt packing ammo appreciates.
As far as qualifying for the CMP, check very carefully with your local range, and read the requirements very carefully. You may be surprised that you already qualify and you never knew it. CMP WANTS you to have that Garand. While I am a HTGV (Honest To God Vet) merely being a member of my local (overly restricted California) NRA accredited range is enough to qualify me. How ’bout that?
Of course, you’re still limited to your local restrictions, shipping to FFL holders, perhaps wait periods and all that…your local law is still the law.
103David
So the 7.62 could be a more consistent round than the .308 because of the controlled condition of the load? It could or should be better than the .308 when they both come out of the box.
Why is the .308 better for reloading than the 7.62. As you can tell I don’t reload. And I really don’t want to reload but I want a consistent round that will cycle the action but also not tear the gun and me up.
When I get the Garand I want to buy ammo that is fairly consistent out of the box. I’m thinking I will only fire about 40 rounds out of the gun at the range because I will take a few air guns also. And when I’m at my brothers I’m sure I probably wont shoot over 10 shots with the Garand if that many. So my question is what would be a all around reasonable round that I could buy over the counter if you will. I’m trying to make it simple but in reality it probably is not that simple.
The Garand would mostly be shot in the 50 to 100 yard range at my brothers and the shooting range. The coyotes would be the main objective of the gun when target shooting. We have used the rimfire .17 hmr’s out to 50 to 60 yards on the coyotes and I think that is starting to push things for that light weight round even though they shoot at 2500 or so fps. So that’s one of the reasons I want the Garand. And the coyotes will usually stay at about 75 to 100 yards out if they know we are there. Is the 7.62 the way to go in my case with the way I described I would shoot the Garand.
Sounds like you should just buy a case lot (or two) from CMP and be done with it. Don’t forget the “En-Bloc Chargers” and read the book about avoiding “M1 thumb.”
What makes 7.62 NATO what it is is the balance of the components that is going to dependably and reliably work the gas system of your Garand without damaging the rifle ( or you) because it’s too hot or too weak.
On the other hand, .308 can literally be anything either you made or the manufacturer made.
If you want it to match 7.62 NATO specs, then either make it that way yourself, or buy it that way. All easily done and the matching component information is widely available.
I chose the 7.62/.308 platform myself because that’s what I trained with and was familiar with the round. I also own or have access to several different center-fires, in 7.62/.308. These range from my Garand, to civilian bolt action “hunting” rifles and even a 1942 Mauser, all happy with 7.62 NATO spec loads.
But I also have a pretty rigid policy of “no new calibers, no weird loadings, everything to spec, and now & future likely availability.”
There’s an enormous quantity of information out there on the Garand and one could make a career on researching it. But there is also a minimum amount one has to acquire if you (and it) are going to be happy together.
103David
I definitely have heard of the M1 thumb and sounds like a good book to read.
And I know what you mean about keeping with a caliber round that you already have. I’m like that with my air guns. I like the .177 caliber guns for certain things and I skip the .22 caliber and go right up to .25 caliber which I use for other things. So going with the 7.62 sounds like that could be the best round for me with a Garand.
And thanks for explaining some things for me. Very useful information.
103David thanks that really sums it all up, I figured the NATO round had to be used in more guns around the globe so would have stringent specs. I just was worried the differences from gun to gun swapping these two rounds as i read there is some “Great Debate” over this by the experts/engineers/shooters/etc whether the gas and pressures were not right gun to gun. Thanks again Sir.
I must admit this is my first time to really look at this weapon.supplimental m1 material.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwe4rPDnM2A
Matt612
I have done almost everything in life that I have wanted to do and have enjoyed all of it. There is a whole lot that I would still like to do, but my body will not allow most of it anymore, so if you are still young enjoy and do as much as you can while it is possible. I have walked on the edge quite often and would not change any of it as that is what makes you feel alive.
Live life to the fullest and never look back.
Buldawg
B.B. thanks for any test or conversations on the P1. I have been researching them for a while and would love to get a P1 or HW45 but have heard complaints about the fiber optics on the HW. I’m not a huge fan but don’t mind fiber optics on some of my guns, have you used the HW and is it decent with the fiber optics and can they be replaced? I think I would prefer the P1 sights better but would like a non-beeman HW in .20cal, does everybody else have a preference or helpful info? B.B. and everbody one other question please will the HW45 black star be available in the U.S.?, that’s the one I really want, sexy…
B.B. and Edith the ongoing blog changes have all been fine in my opinion and the excerpts are fine, I read the archives and have no issues with that, there’s so much info you have to crunch it down somehow and at least we still have it all available to read so good luck and carry on.
Ricka,
No, I haven’t shot the HW 45 with fiberoptic sights. And no, they cannot be replaced very easily. I would look for a used gun if I were you.
B.B.
The current change appears to have broken usage of the SAGE RSS reader, which I use to read the comment posts.
Sage listed the new posts in the index, but related window that used to show all the related posts remained blank.
Clicking on a message in the index loads the whole blog (wiping out the index pane).
Not happy…
Lovely… So after posting the above, and back-clicking, NOW the RSS feed displayed the messages…
So — hold my comment in abeyance until I get a few days to confirm/counter the behaviour.