Four new .177 pellets to test.
This report covers:
- Testbeds
- Do the testing airguns “like” the pellets tested in them?
- What are we testing?
- However
- Clamping an airgun in a vise
- Distance(s)
- Factors
- More tests ahead
- Summary
Today I’m asking your thoughts on testing some new pellets. They are the ones seen above.
The pellets in question are all .177 caliber. Three are wadcutters and the one at the bottom of the photo is a dome. I hope to run the same set of tests on each of the wadcutters and a slightly different test for the dome In fact that brings up my first question. I want to test each pellet separately so we get a reasonably good idea of how it performs.
One tin says the pellets inside are match pellets, but we have seen others where the word match is just a word and not descriptive. I’m trying hard not to prejudge, but the common misuse of that term throws up a red flag for me.
One of the pellets is made in the USA which should be interesting all by itself.
Testbeds
I have testbed airguns of known accuracy such as the FWB 300S, The FWB 600 and a couple other ten-meter rifles. That’s all fine and good except many readers don’t have ten-meter target rifles. I think any test needs more depth than just target rifles.
For air pistols I have the Beeman P1 (HW45), the Beeman P17 and the P3 (HW40). But I also have other air pistols that aren’t as accurate, like the BSF S20 and the BSA Scorpion. Should I also test each pellet in one of them?
Do the testing airguns “like” the pellets tested in them?
Testing pellets isn’t straightforward. Often a pellet will do well in one airgun and not as good in another. That will be one of the things we will discover as the test progresses. Of course we will be looking for pellets that perform well in most airguns as well as pellets that don’t seem to do well in any airgun.
What are we testing?
It comes down to this—what do we want to know? I do understand that many of you will have airguns in which these pellets do better or worse than my test results. That’s inevitable because each of us shoots differently and all airguns shoot differently. Before I ever tested JTS pellets I wondered how well they might do. Now that I’ve tested them in many airguns I know they usually do very well. However—
However
One JTS pellet I’ve tested does stand out. The Simply wadcutter tested poorly with several airguns it was tested in. I was ready to write it off. And then it turned in the smallest group of an accuracy test and if I recall correctly it did so more than once. That pellet stands apart as being picky about the airgun it is fired from.
Clamping an airgun in a vise
Several readers suggest clamping the test gun in a vise for a more uniform test. But I have told you several times that when the AirForce Airguns Edge target rifle was tested, John McCaslin one clamped in a vise and I shot alongside him at the same time with a different rifle that was rested on a sandbag. Both rifles shot groups that were within a few hundredths of an inch in size. So clamping is not necessary, not to mention with airguns like breakbarrels, next to impossible.
Number of shots
I think the target rifles should shoot 5-shot groups and the sporting rifles should shoot ten-shot groups. As far as the air pistols go, I think the same thing.
Distance(s)
I’m inclined to shoot the target guns at 10 meters and the sporters at 21 yards. I’d like to hear from you on that.
Factors
Besides the uncertainty of any pellet’s performance in an airgun there is also the drop-off of accuracy of wadcutters. I once demonstrated this on the television program, American Airgunner. A pellet that grouped well at 10 meters scattered its shots at 35 yards. Now 21 yards is a lot closer and might not be as big an influence, but what do you think?
More tests ahead
These are not the only new pellets I have to test. What I want is a standardized procedure for testing pellets that reaches beyond just shooting hem in as test airgun.
Summary
I am asking you for your thoughts on how best to test new pellets. I want to add things that haven’t been done before.
Tom,
At 10 meters the wadcutters will be held up to scrutiny because that is the range they were made for. At 21 yards I would lower my expectations and ask that they keep within a dollar to guarantee use against feral cans. The domed pellets should be expected to hold well until 50 yards.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
My thinking, as well.
BB
For uniformity of testing deadcalm platforms are necessary.
For different weight categories different power level guns.
PCPs and pneumatics come forward. Five, ten maybe, shots to “season” the barrel. Ten yards for pistols, not AR6P or Talon, 20 to 25 yards for rifles. Simple, isn’t it?
Bill,
But what about springers? Folks like Yogi shoot them exclusively. I think I need to test them too.
BB
Tom
I am think of a strictly pellets test basis.
I mostly shoot springers nowadays. You, RR and Yogi enabled me as a matter of fact. But strictly pellet testing should avoid gun’s or shooter’s parameters.
My thinking of course.
i am interested in the performance of the podium wadcutters in a variety of spring rifles and pistols, as well as co2 and ssp.
Springman3000,
Why is that?
BB
they’ve been on the site for a few months but they don’t have any reviews. i assume either nobody has pulled the trigger on them yet, or anyone that has used them have haven’t found them to be fantastic or terrible enough to rave one way or the other about them. based solely on that i predict they will be a middle of the road pellet, but i look forward to seeing how they really perform. my outdoor range is limited (probably between 20 and 30 feet but i’ve never actually measured) and i shoot a lot of paper. my go to used to be the crosman premier 7.9 wadcutters and while i have four tins of 500 (if i had known they were going away i would have bought everything i could), i’ve been stocking up on rws meisterkugeln 8.2 and 7.0, as well as hobbys and basics, in addition to h&n sports and exites. plus a few of those that are available in .22. it couldn’t hurt to add some more to the mix.
Distances seem right. A fair number of guns seem OK power wise at 20 yards, but not much further. And more than a few have accuracy fall off past 20-30 yards.
I’m really glad that BB think about the systematics of the pellet testing. It makes a big sense to have one testing platform and compare the pellets always in a very similar way. The idea to test not only the most accurate airguns in class is good. I think it makes sense to shot the most accurate available airgun in class to see what is possible with the tested pellet – but the information what is the effect on some “average airgun for plinking” is same important, or even essential, for many readers. It would be also interesting for me, to be honest. If the tendency stays? How big is the difference between match grade and “a normal one”? 🙂
My experience with wadcutters is similar to what BB mentioned. I discovered the 30y – 35 yards range as the effective range for this type of pellet. No mather how fast you will shot them they will lose all after 35 yards, perhaps the heavier one would manage to be accurate up to 40 yards. But that’s it, the most will be at the edge above 25 yards. I think what BB suggested to test after 10 meter – the 21yard rane – will be a good distance. Most of the plinking stuff will happen in this range 🙂
Since I shot a lot on the regulary basis I see the big advantage in wadcutters which are in the best performance – price ratio. I discovered H&N Sport (0,53gramm, approx. 4,50EUR per 500) and ECON II (0.48gramm, approx. 3,90EUR per 500) to be a very good daily training ammo. Especially the Sport is a very high quality pellet with very small tolerances regarding caliber and weight. I discovered additionally that it makes sense to quick wash them using special cleaning gasoline to remove all small trash and other stuff (pellets are then clean, the velocity is even more stable). Nevertheless I do not test the “real match grade” stuff very often. Recently I bought a match H&N pellet box, selected and packed each separately (200pcs box). Yes, the pellets are almost perfect each one but also pretty expensive for my shooting. I will need a box like this per DAY, means like 11EUR – 15EUR for a shooting session… Hmm. Wait a second, I already quit smoking years ago so there is not much left to compensate that 🙂
BB – I would be delighted to see a test series with the “high end match” pellets comparison. This is something not every one will just do at home. The reason is quite simple and it is not the money – when I’m able to pack 5 H&N Sport pellets in 5,3mm hole I’m not very motivated to buy 10 selected pellet boxes to see if I will be able to go further with them or not. But I’m still very interested if there will be some relevant difference… I hope you know what I mean. I wait for more pellet testing! It is very interesting.
I saw Olympia pellets – made in Poland. That will be interesting, this sort is also available in Germany. They are not cheap though.
BB,
I think that the idea sounds like a wonderful way to find how pellets might perform.
You should include a nice cross section of airguns. My rifle recommendations might include: HW30 (entry level springer), TX200 (high end springer), FWB600 (pneumatic match), Avenger (PPP) and Talon/Condor (sporter PCP). All are ‘known quality’ rifles and cut rather a wide swath through variants of rifles.
Not being much of a pistoleer, I have limted experience and suggestions on that quarter. Amongst them might be: P13 (for entry level), a ‘springer’ pistol, a CO2 pistol and a ‘match’ pistol (your choices being far more informed than mine).
Looking forward to the testing.
Bill
Bill,
Yeah, The HW 30S or the 50S for sure.
BB
Do we have to login each and every time we comment? Is this the new norm?
I especially like your proposed distances of 10 meters and 21 yards. Ten meter barrel twists are for 10 meters using wadcutter pellets. Dome pellets are for plinking, hunting and target shooting at various distances. Since hurricane Helene disrupted my 25 yard shooting lane I have switched to other corridors including a 20 yard shooting lane that is less exposed to swirling wind. At 20 yards group sizes have shrunk more than I expected. At least two rifles are remarkably more accurate; my Izzy 61 and Daisy Avanti 753 (domes).
Unlike 10 meters, 25 yards is not a regulation airgun distance that I am aware of so why not use the 21 yards you propose?
Deck
Deck
Why not do it symmetrical? 10m and 20m. That’s 22 yards I believe. That’s if you don’t mind using the metric system.
Bill
My new lane limits me to 59 feet. Target is backed up with baled straw, logs and tree out of concern for keeping neighbors happy.
Deck
I suggest using guns that are known to be accurate with a variety of pellets. For me, this would be a Crosman Challenger for .177 caliber, and a regulated Benjamin Marauder for .22 caliber. By the way, both of those rifles have Lothar Walther barrels.
I suggest using sights that you are comfortable with and are accurate with. Try to ensure good and consistent lighting conditions. In my opinion, sights are at least as important as the barrel.
It would be nice to know the twist rate of the barrel rifling and the velocities of each different pellets. These parameters might be helpful for those who tend to tune their guns.
Close-up photos of the individual pellet holes in targets (especially at longer distances) might tell us something about how stable the pellets are at those distances. Shooting one pellet per target and making sure the target backing is good and uniform might help to ensure more meaningful pellet hole shapes. Someone here likes to use old cereal box material for backing targets. I would think that type of material would be good for this purpose.
If the pellets are designed for hunting, a penetration test in ballistic gel or soap might be helpful to those who hunt.
Measuring and weighing pellets for consistency might be useful. Especially for the pellets designed for “match” target shooting.
Hopefully some of these suggestions will help. Have fun with this endeavor. Looking forward to some results.
Elmer,
Those are some good suggestions.
BB
Thanks, one other item that I should have mentioned is the use of an anti-cant device. For me anyway, this is crucial for consistency. I even put one on my Crosman 760 Classic (along with a peep sight and a red/green dot sight).
The problem with pellet testing is that the results are only valid for that particular pellet/barrel combination. Even between 2 identical guns the results can be quite different with the same ammo.
Ade,
Exactly!
BB
BB,
So, you have this urge to herd cats. Good luck. At least you point out that each airgun and each shooter will have different results.
I have a large collection of pellets that to me are pretty much useless. Sometimes I will try some of them when a new airgun shows up at RRHFWA. You never know, they just might work well with that one. More often than not, they go back into the useless pile.
On those occasions when I find THE pellet for a particular airgun, I often will purchase pellets solely for that airgun and quite often keep that particular pellet with that particular airgun.
On those very rare occasions when a new pellet shows up at RRHFWA, I give it the chance to become my new favorite for one of the “old gals” hanging around here. More often than not, that new pellet ends up in the useless pile with the others.
What may seem strange to some folks is the brands I have found that work well for me. I have found that many of the “old gals” around here prefer the RWS brand of pellets, but most of the newer airguns here prefer the JSB pellets.
How does all of this help BB? It doesn’t.
OK, here we go.
The wadcutters should be tested in 10-meter airguns at 10 meters. That is what they are designed for and that is where their performance should be tested. My Izzy is the only 10-meter airgun I own now, and it prefers the RWS R10 pistol pellet and I keep that pellet with it.
The domed pellet should be given a chance in a larger variety of airguns at longer ranges, and where possible at various power levels.
As Ade points out, your results may vary. Now where did that tabby go?
BB,
this is subjective to what I want to see, at least a little bit. But two questions.
Why wouldn’t all groups be ten shot groups? It would make comparisons direct across the board.
Why 21 yards? That seems like an odd distance. I would like to see longer for the guns and ammo that justify it. Is that a range that you have readily available? (Seems like I remember you giving a reference to 21 yards, but I don’t remember the specifics.)
CB
Has anyone noticed there can be a POI shift with the same gun and pellet tin even when choosing another location on the same target? I recently shot three groups of 10 shots of a given pellet in a given gun (PCP in this case) and all three groups were 3/4″ or less but the average POI varied by as much as 1/2″ from group to group (@ 25 yds.) Each target was approximately 4″ either horizontally, diagonally, or vertically placed relative to one another. One group’s average center was on the bullseye cross, another average was around 3/8″ to the right of the cross, and another around 3/8″ towards the tip of the upper vertical cross line which gave a roughly 1/2″ difference between average centers between the latter two groups. I’m assuming this could be attributed to an inadvertent “canting” of the scope that could have occurred between the target locations (?) Thoughts? In any case, it’s another undesirable characteristic to have to contend with which influences results in a negative fashion.
I feel bad for the poor animals who might be on the receiving end of our best efforts to eliminate error in order to take them cleanly but we’re doing the best we can. Certainly more data on pellets is better than less so let ‘er rip BB and thanks for the continued contributions to the field!
AirGunnerAmeteur,
First things first is a sorely needed response to: “I feel bad for the poor animals who might be on the receiving end of our best efforts to eliminate error in order to take them cleanly but we’re doing the best we can.” No need to feel bad. Groups have almost nothing to do with pesting-hunting! The reason is what the firearm folks call a Cold Bore shot. For air gunners it is a bit more simple since very little generated heat is involved with our shooting…the FACT of the matter is actually some amount of cooling in the pneumatics and a wash in the spring powerplants. So what does that mean in relationship to your other points?
First your observation of an apparent shift of POI (Point Of Impact) from group to group.
Without knowing the length of time these were achieved over and things like FILL status, if regulated, what the regulator stability is, temperature shifts externally on the scope and gun, internal temperature changes of same, Sun heating of the shooting system is almost always asymmetrical, and a host of lesser variable factors. Then there is the WIND (to include ventilation turbulence if indoor range) which is NEVER exactly the same. But back to your assumptions about apparent shift of POI by observing groups.
For a DEEP LOOK: https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/12/12/measuring-group-size-statistics-for-shooters/#:~:text=Mean radius%2C also known as average to center%2C is the,measure of precision than ES. If you are REALLY interested do read parts 1 and 2 as well.
You are comparing the average center of one group to the average center of some other groups. That average center is an IMAGINARY point that has little or nothing to do with POI! A group is simply an ellipsis with some level of probability of containment. The very next shot can be mathematically described by saying there is a 95% probability that it will print SOMEWHERE within that ellipsis and there is also a 5% chance that it will land somewhere in the world outside of the ellipsis of containment.
I hope that gets you thinking about all the variables and predictive limits of precision shooting.
Keep thinking about your shooting and asking questions!
shootski
B.B.
So nice to see one made in the USA (These days anyway). I’m really hoping on that one.
Doc
BB,
Due to the variability in airgun types, pellet designs/types, barrel geometries, atmospheric conditions and shooter style/skill, I think that it’s impossible to “test” pellets. There’s no consistent point of reference to go by.
IMHO, the only thing we can do is to determine the consistency of pellets/slugs, by weighing and measuring them. Shooting them proves nothing except how they perform in that particular airgun, on that day.
As far as inspecting goes, I’ll spot-check a sample (25-50 pellets) from each tin until I get confidence in the manufacturer and then only do a quick on different batched/orders. A visual inspection is done for molding/swaging quality, finish, dirt and damage whenever the pellets are handled.
For serious shooting (tuning, target shooting and hunting) I only use sorted pellets that I’ve determined shoot best in that airgun.
At typical ranges, for general and casual use, it’s enough to find the pellet YOUR airgun likes by eliminating the ones it doesn’t like. Nobody can do that for you unless they use your airgun to test with.
I’m often guilty of over-thinking things. My take on pellets is to be as fussy as required for the application and for 99% of my shooting it’s just straight-from-the-tin with brands that have proven to be good in that airgun.
Just my 2 cents. 🙂
Cheers!
With the tariffs being imposed, sure hope the USA-made Podium pellets work out well; would not be averse to trying the Polish-made ones, if nothing else to support our Eastern European friends.
B.B.,
Five questions to answer:
Who? B.B. shoots well (most days)…pellet buyer shoots??? NULL information gained.
What? At least one of each powerplant. Works in this one or doesn’t information.
Where? How far to target for this powerplant and still on the paper…or not.
When? Plinking, target shooting, competition, hunting-pesting.
Why? Perhaps keep buyers remorse to a lower level for new to the sport shooters.
shootski
Airgunner Ameteur,
I think either your hold or cant has changed between groups. Also, your AO may be off, not properly adjusted.
Those are the things I would check.
David Enoch
BB,
I would shoot the Wadcutters with 10 meter guns at 10 meters because that is what wadcutters are designed for. I would suggest the AirForce Edge and Crosman Challenger. If one pellet shoots a lot better than the others I would shoot some groups with your FWB 300.
I would test the dome with your R7 and something like a FWB 124, R9 or TX200. I would only shoot at 25 yards. With the exception of 10 meter guns and pistols, I don’t see much usefulness from shooting 10 meter groups. The reason I am not suggesting PCPs is because not many people shoot .177 PCPs except for those shooting PCP match rifles.
David Enoch
David,
Do you think that if Tom shot my FWB124, FWB300, and TX200 during the same session as he shot his rifles that they would shoot the same pellets into the same sized groups?
Hank
Hank,
To make it more strange, how about Tom shooting his rifles and you shooting your rifles and then swap so that you shoot Tom’s rifles and Tom shooting your rifles. Perhaps crazy but it might be interesting.
Mike
Mike,
I once made a “bulk purchase” of 6 airguns to get a price break for my friends and myself. All the same model and by fluke, with sequential serial numbers.
For “incoming inspection” I shot test targets with each airgun, same tin of pellets and there was a substantial differences in accuracy.
So, if I was testing the pellets, should I believe the good groups or the bad ones? Which airgun should I choose to be the gold standard pellet test bed?
Hank
Vana2,
Hank have you?
…And thanks for mentioning atlatls. It’s been years since I’ve used one and you just added making one to my already too long project list
That was about three years ago….
I just saw it doing a rereading of your excellent MER, MAR, & MPR Guest Blog.
shootski
BB,
I am pretty sure that, like most data, testing information can be ‘analyzed to death’.
The way that I see it, we are simply trying to see if a pellet might be accurate enough to use on a regular basis, or simply ‘sinker larva’.
By testing with several known quality airguns (that seem to be not very pellet picky) we can tend to look for pellets that might work. (And at least accurate enough not to be a total waste of time, to start with.)
Go for some more testing!
Bill
B.B.
The wadcutter should be tested in 10M match rifles only. I would never use a wadcutter when shooting longer that 20 yards. They are for punching papper, use them for their intended use.
The dome you need to test in guns that you would shoot at 20-50 yards. Both springers and PCP’s.
Test the pellets the way the manufacturer intended them to be used!!
-Yogi
Hank,
I don’t honestly know. BB doesn’t have the option of waiting for good wind conditions. I have seen him shooting as well as others testing some guns and at other times BB’s groups don’t seem to be nearly as good as I see others reporting. I put this down to BB shooting when he has to, in good or bad weather, feeling good or not so good, eyesight good or not so good, in a hurry or with plenty of time. I think it is very rare for a person to post his actual results even when the groups are not up to par.
I think given time, patience, all the other factors that BB is capable of shooting representative groups with the guns he test.
David Enoch