This report covers:
The Steve Corcoran-made custom HW 30 stock.
This report covers:
- Things that work best
- Off the main path
- Stock
- Focused
- The point
- Summary
Before I begin today’s report I will say a word about yesterday’s report. I don’t like to report when things go bad, but it happens. Knowing what happens at these times can give us clues to the solution. I wanted to show you how to do that.
Instead of giving all of you a fish to feed you for a day I would like to teach you to fish to feed you for a lifertime. We all love to shoot but sometimes it’s about more than just shooting.
Things that work best
You readers know which airguns fit your lifestyle and you talk about them all the time in the comments. Because of that I’ll bet you can spot when someone comments on this gun and that gun, and the person’s comments are all over the place. They go from talking about big bores to 10-meter guns to repeaters to long-range precision shooters. They seem to be all over the board, while you enjoy one or two things above all. Well, the reports I have written over the past several months are for you guys — not for the Jacks of all trades. Let me explain.
Well, I can’t explain. In the last paragraph I said I have been doing this for several MONTHS. Then, when I researched it, I discovered that it was more like several YEARS.
To bound the subject I will talk primarily about a single airgun — the HW 30S. You readers know that I really like the Diana 27. I find ways to write about it all the time. But many of you said I needed to consider the HW 30S. So I did.
In April of 2021 I started reporting on the HW 30S. In Part 3, which was the first accuracy test, I said the following, “All throughout this test I had a hard time maintaining my sight picture. I really felt that if I had a rear peep sight I could shoot better. That wasn’t the test today, though, so I toughed it out. But at some point in the future I do want to try this rifle with a rear peep sight. However that won’t be next.”
Can you see from that paragraph where I’m heading? I wasn’t aware of it at that time, but that paragraph was written that way because the shape of Weihrauch’s new style of stock kept me from seeing the front sight in the rear sight notch. Are you with me now?
I went on to to tune that rifle several different ways. Surprisingly the rifle became more accurate as my testing progressed. I gave it a lube-only “tune” and then said, “After that I hope to install a Vortek PG3 SHO kit to compare to my lube tune. And after that, who knows?” Well — we know now, don’t we?
Off the main path
I did install that Vortek kit and that lead me to a side excursion where I tuned an HW 50S with a different Vortek kit. I initially bought the HW 50S BECAUSE of the HW 30S! One thing led to another.
That rifle (the HW 50S) shoots beautifully and I have now written 16 different reports on it. In one of them I used that now-tuned and very accurate rifle to test the new Benjamin domed pellet that I call the Benjamin Bullseye. That was another small side excursion. But let’s now get back to the initial topic — the HW 30S.
Stock
Going back to not being able to see the front sight in the rear notch, I went in two directions. One became a series — What a difference a stock makes. I bought a used old-style factory stock for the HW 30S and wrote a report titled, What BB did and then a four-part report on the 30S with the old-style stock, and that led to yet ANOTHER side excursion — or maybe it was a main one. I wanted to shoot better offhand so I could eliminate pests around the house.
The final two reports of the report titled, What a difference a stock makes are about ordering, receiving, installing and using a custom stock made by Steve Corcoran. And now I will try to summarize what I’ve been saying in this report.
Focused
Rather than discussing airguns that range from DC to daylight (a reference to the broad expanse of the electromagnetic spectrum) I have remained focused on one (type) of rifle — the small, easy-to-shoot breakbarrel springer that you have seen transformed before your eyes. There have been small excursions into things on the periphery but I have remained focused on the topic of turning the HW 30S into the finest breakbarrel spring-piston rifle I own. No, Yogi, before you say, “I told you so” I will point out that I could just as easily have made a similar report about my Air Venturi Avenger (BB’s Goldie). And, like this one, that series isn’t close to being completed.
The point
Okay, there must be a point in here, somewhere. Right?
There is. I am spending time on the RAW MicroHunter because, up to this point it is one of the finest precharged pneumatic air rifles I have seen. Size, weight, shot count, power, fill level and trigger are right where I want them.
A few years back I purchased an Air Arms S510XS that turned out to also be one of the finest PCPs I have ever seen. It is a .22 and I wanted a companion piece in .177, so I turned to FX. Everybody says they are just as good as Air Arms, so I thought — why not?
I tested a .177 Dreamlite and was poised to purchase it, but in testing I discovered that the rifle I tested had a “smooth twist” barrel that was gimmicky, underdeveloped and inaccurate. I don’t need that. In other words I discovered why not.
So, when this MicroHunter came along from RAW I wondered whether it could be the rifle I am looking for. Now, the MicroHunter is NOTHING like the Dreamlite, but that won’t be so bad if it turns out to be accurate. I don’t need gimmicks like smooth twist barrels. I don’t need cheerleaders on the forums telling me something is good. I need performance. If the MicroHunter turns out to be the air rifle the Dreamlite wanted to be when it grew up — I’m in.
That’s what both yesterday’s report and today’s report are about.
Summary
We are airgunners. We may not shoot or even like the same kinds of airguns, but that doesn’t matter. We all like airguns. Manufacturers can keep the gimmicks; just give us accuracy reliability and great triggers. As the wise old frog said, “Time’s fun when you’re having flies!”
B.B.
The Dreamlite could still be “the one”. It just needs a different barrel or liner. Yes, FX will be happy to sell a whole variety of barrels and twist rates!
-Y
Yogi,
LOL! That is exactly why I also rejected FX way back when. I shot a Dreamlite in .25 and was not impressed either. Should I hock everything I own and start down the road of throwing bunches of money at FX to build THE Dreamlite of my dreams?!
One thing more of great import to we old timers is a beautiful wooden stock (walnut for me). The stock on your continually beautiful 30S is looking perfect for you. Orv.
Orv,
That may be why I like so many of these “old gals”. Walnut used to be the standard wood for stocks.
A walnut stock just feels so good to me, RR. The perfect Monte Carlo curves, polished to bring out the highlights is all a part of my shooting experience. My carry pistol, a Springfield Armory Garrison 1911, even has walnut, wood grips. I just like wood stocks, nuff said. Orv.
BB, One of the many things I enjoy about this blog is that it teaches how to approach problems and issues with the airgun (perhaps, as a model for life). Things like, “what is the real problem?”, is it the shooter, technique, sighting, pellets, something mechanical with the gun, what? And I can review past posts for tips on how to identify such problems and what to do about them.
It isn’t just the enabling, but the re-enabling too.
Mike
Mike, well said! You articulated that for which I did not have the words to do so; thank you. 🙂
BB, I think next you’re supposed to get an HW35, at least that’s what the Weinrauch fans say to people with 30s and 50s.;)
That sounds like a co-in-ki-dink, eh, B.B.? We shall see.
Roamin,
Yeah, me too.
BB
I disagree.
The HW35 has a large diameter short stroke piston. And with all respect, I consider it to be outdated.
The record trigger is the same on any Weihrauch.
The HW35 has the nice locking latch for the barrel, but that is not really a game changer.
Mel83,
Are you sure we can use terms like “outdated” to describe springer powerplant solution philosophy? This HW35 is iconic in terms of a classic beauty and reliability in a springer airgun world. It might be not so cultivated as 30S or 97, but in Germany it is still a breeze of “made in Germany” from the real high-quality past. It is relative heavy, big, and not powerful enough to be showed around with the cheerleaders all the time. It is also expensive. This is the only reason which stopped me so far.
I would be happy to see BB testing it. It might even be a next “have to buy after tuning session” in BB’s collection.
Hello, I am German. Just like you, I like well made metal&wood airguns.
Yes, the HW35 has an outdated technology, in that it
-has a short piton stroke length and a unnecessary long barrel
-the short stroke piston comes with a high diameter
Some years ago, the airgun manufacturers realized that short barrel with high cocking angle (to decrease the cocking force), short barrel and low diameter piston are a better combination.
Many airguns have too long barrel, especially springers. I agree. Nowadays there is a pressure for FPS again (since PCP become very powerful) and to be honest – this long stroke piston tendency will be also called “outdated solution” in short future. I’m pretty sure. There is no best way, I rather take it in terms philosophy, which is beyond time. Look at all the “new” solutions which were always introduced as “from now on there will be no more this and that” – like a gas ram. 🙂 “There will be no more steel mainspring” 🙂
Hi everybody,
another German here.
Yup, the HW35 is outdated, but so am I. From a purely subjective point of view, I would probably prefer it to many of the “modern” alternatives (I don’t want to fiddle with pumps and compressors at this point and I don’t like “tacticool” stuff).
But if different people like different things, that’s fine 🙂
Stephan
The HW35 is a very nice gun.
And concerning the long barrel: They are not ideal in terms of ballistics. But make cocking much easier. Plus, they extend the distance between front and rear sight, and also act as a stabilizing weight.
I have a Slavia 631 and while this gun is “outdated” as well, I would never trade it for something new.
One man’s outdated is another man’s classic!
(And I’m getting the feeling Pyramyd might consider publishing this blog in two versions. in English and ein Duetsche.)
Michael
Mel83, tomek, Stephan, & Michael,
In terms of “outdated,” I guess I am outdated.
I love my .22 HW30S; to me, it represents German engineering at its finest.
And I feel the same way about my 1938 .177-caliber Haenel model 1.
Young folk today might think it’s underpowered and outdated.
To me, it’s a wonderful and accurate shooter, and a great piece of craftsmanship.
I love it so much that I’m buying another Haenel model 1 in .22 caliber.
I will choose an “outdated” wood and steel classic over a gimmicky gun any day!
Blessings and good shooting to “all y’all”!
(that’s the correct Georgia expression for “all of you” =>),
dave
BB
I understand you not wanting to report on when things go wrong, but things do go wrong sometimes and it can be a good learning experience.
All I could think about was how frustrating it must have been to monkey with two different scopes for two days all to no avail.
BB;
Once I had issue with the barrel which was lose (not tightened to the system chassis). Almost gone crazy – I could not understand what is going on with the groups, it was not logic (the variation, non stop changing pattern). It is similar to a lose contact in the electronics, like a broken solder point. The device is working normally and sometimes does something which you can’t follow at all. Nightmare.
A mechanic we used to do business with – he retired – used to call intermittent, hard-to-trace problems like you describe as “chasing a ghost.”
Hi everybody…
I learned two things that are somewhat related to today’s topic.
1. Apparently old HW35Es have a longer barrel. It seems like that was part of the “premium” features of the “Export” version in addition to the nicer walnut stock etc. Mine (probably from around 1980) seems to be like that, too. It’s a few cm longer than the current versions.
Which kind of leads to the next point:
2. For me, the HW30S is actually the better airgun, at least for shooting in a standing position at 10m. The HW35E is the more expensive and generally more desirable airgun. I can shoot it just fine but it is a bit front heavy in comparison. The HW30S just seems to point naturally at the target whereas the HW35E requires more effort.
Does this make the HW35E a bad airgun for me? Absolutely not! Without a direct comparison, I wouldn’t even have noticed an issue.
But it does show that in practice, things are not always the way that general opinion or even common sense would suggest… Even objective data (if available at all) can’t tell you what you need, and much less what you *like*.
Stephan
Capt. K. ,
I like Airguns, and powder burners as well.
There are many styles to choose from of both categories some are visually appealing, and some choose function over form.
While I like visually appealing guns, I always see how a gun FEELS before I buy it.
I have to handle, shoulder it, and see if it is something that feels good in the hand , and on the shoulder.
If t doesn’t feel good, or fit you well, you will not shoot it much, or at least I don’t.
I own several Airguns, from low end guns that were given to be or bought at a yard sale for $1, to what I consider to be expensive guns.
Some are pretty, some have little or no finish left on them.
The ones I use the most are the ones that FEEL right and are fun to shoot.
Ian.
To all the Germans out there,
I like Weihrauch. I like the quality. I would buy the HW35 solely based upon the walnut stock. Is it a better shooter than the others? Probably not. It is just different.
I have long strokers and I have short strokers. Each has its pluses and minuses. I also own some PCPs.
LOL! To each their own. Just get out there and go shoot some.
RidgeRunner,
I can only answer this for the 7.5 joule versions. It is possible to have more powerful rifles in Germany if they were built before 1970 or if you have a permit (hunting license, use for sports, etc…). I am on 7.5 joule which is sufficient for 10 meter shooting anyway.
My HW35E is about 43 years old. In my opinion it has a very calm shot cycle without any vibration or noise.
I would say that it’s a little calmer than, say, a Diana 34 out of the box (which is probably due to the short stroke which also limits the max power).
I can shoot it very, very accurately (on par with the group sizes I showed in my HW30S review). I recently replaced the mainspring because after all this time it was getting a bit weak. It was actually fairly kinked, but you wouldn’t have known this from the shot cycle. This gun already has a safety and a synthetic piston seal.
At 3,8kg it is quite heavy for a breakbarrel springer.
My HW30S is new, and while similar in construction, is a very different gun. The stock isn’t as nice as the walnut stock of the HW35E, but just as well-made. The shot cycle is noticeably faster which is especially noticeable in direct comparison.
It is very compact and also very light at just 2,5kg. All the mechanics are easy to operate but also feel precise and rock-solid (e.g. the barrel lock and safety).
They are both classic and very high quality air rifles that I can highly recommend. The HW35E is slightly ahead in the “looks” department, the HW30S is a little easier/more fun to shoot for me.
If in doubt, it’s best to own both 🙂
RG
Talk about timing with all these comments about the HW 35. The walnut stock HW 35E in the Stainless (nickel plated) version just arrived. It’s in the German level of 7.5 joules but all the better. Less noise, vibrations and cocking effort. After all it will only be shot with the open sights at 10 meters. I look forward to many shiny days shooting it and evenings looking at it
Bill,
open sights probably don’t get much nicer than those provided by Weihrauch (I currently have a FWB300S diopter on my HW35 which is possible since Weihrauch also provides a ring front sight insert).
May I ask where you live? Did the seller have to specifically order the 7.5 joule version or did they swap out the spring for you? If things were ideal, I would like to have the choice between the low-power and high-power springs without any permits and hassle. At the same time, the 7.5 joule version might be a good choice for many people who shoot indoors or at shorter distances.
Stephan
Stephan
What a coincidence; I have an FWB 300S rear diopter sight on my Walther LGV at the moment. Front sight is a Truglo fiber optic. It’s a combination that works great. Regarding the HW 35E it’s a special version for a shop in Spain and I bought it from them although I live in Greece. I had asked to be notified when available and got it as soon as I received the email. I don’t intend to replace the spring whatever it is. I just plan to remove (very carefully) the stock and apply some lubricant on the spring, if there is a visible part of it.
Bill,
I see. Diopter + fiber optic sounds like a weird combination…but if it works…
When you remove the stock, you should have fairly easy access to the spring. I put some Liqui Moly LM47 molybdenum grease + extra moly powder on the spring and closed the rifle up again. It probably also doesn’t hurt to put a little moly on the “cage” that guides the cocking linkage.
The HW30S actually went from “slight twang” to “very smooth”. Maybe it was the moly grease or maybe it would have done so by itself… who knows 🙂
I was thinking about tuning it and maybe I will some day, but it is already really nice as it is.
Stephan
Stephan, the diopter rear sight and the fiber optic front is as close to a red dot sight as one can get without batteries. Here is a series of comments I did with that combination, starting here: https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2021/10/beeman-p1-air-pistol-part-3/#comment-481511
The truglo sight has an adjustable sunshade so you can even control the brightness of the dot.
Searching for more of my comments on this combination reveals that we had this conversation before: see this and the comments following:
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2023/02/the-weihrauch-hw-30s/#comment-498837
Here is my “outdated” HW35L. It is very easy for me to shoot this one accurately. I like the weight and balance
Kevin, my condolences, what an awful old rifle!
It’ll probably still be going strong when many of today’s “modern” airguns can’t be repaired anymore.
I think that’s the “Luxus” stock, right? It must be older than mine since it doesn’t have a safety. It also seems to be in amazing shape.
This is my HW35E next to the HW30S.
Stephan
Stephan,
You are correct. The “L” in HW35L designates luxus. This is an early pre-safety with an interesting serial number
For those unable to zoom in on the serial number on kevin’s Weihrauch 35, I think it is indeed interesting :
300035
B.B.,
You wrote: “We all love to shoot but sometimes it’s about more than just shooting.” Do “we” you got a mouse in your pocket Tom? I read a great many comments that read like frustration about the results downrange!
As Ricky Recardo (Desi Arnaz) sort of said: “Lucy, you’ve got some ‘splaining to do!”
https://www.metv.com/lists/9-famous-tv-catchphrases-that-were-never-actually-said-on-their-shows#:~:text=1.,some%20’splaining%20to%20do!%22&text=Perhaps%20the%20most%20infamous%20and,which%20evolved%20into%20this%20misquote.
You wrote: “You readers know which airguns fit your lifestyle and you talk about them all the time in the comments. Because of that I’ll bet you can spot when someone comments on this gun and that gun, and the person’s comments are all over the place. They go from talking about big bores to 10-meter guns to repeaters to long-range precision shooters. They seem to be all over the board, while you enjoy one or two things above all. Well, the reports I have written over the past several months are for you guys — not for the Jacks of all trades. Let me explain.
Well, I can’t explain.”
Well NOW! Just what exactly does that mean?
I have, or have had, all, the types of airguns you mention and enjoy(ed) shooting them all; as well as a brace of firearms of all types.
I’ll share what i think: There are aficionados of one style/type and then there are devotees of SHOOTING; i enjoy the shooting much more than what i am shooting.
If what i am shooting also is pleasing to look at or touch well that is just gravy.
Bottom line; most everyone needs to work on the fundamentals with whatever and however they shoot way more then they seemingly do…there you will find JOY.
my opinion.
shootski
BB,
I wonder if you had sent the FX Dreamlite back to the factory like you are doing with the RAW Micro Hunter if you would have liked the Dreamlite. I know FX sponsors a lot of shooters at long range competitions but I don’t think you can discount their success at those competitions.
The FX platforms are probably the most adjustable, upgradable, and modular of the airgun platforms. I think they are also the quickest to adopt and upgrade their guns as better solutions are found.
I don’t know what percentage of airgunners want adjustable, upgradable, and modular verses s a gun that just works out of the box. To be honest, I can’t answer that question for myself yet. I do think that ultimate accuracy will come from the adjustable gun. And, I don’t know of mechanical adjustments or electronic adjustability is the best option.
David Enoch
David,
I have tested many FX airguns over the years.In the past they were premium guns and I will admit that several today are, as well. But not the Dreamlite.
The Dreamlite was a horrid undeveloped airgun that never should have made it to market. The Smooth Twist barrel was EXTREMELY pellet dependent in the first generation and airgunners have now had to suffer through several more generations before they got it right — if that ever happened.
The Dreamlite manual was a joke and I pointed that out in my review.
I’m not against FX airguns. And the high pressure hand pump that Fredrik developed a]was genius. But the Dreamlite was a black eye on FX.
I’m spending time with the MicroHunter because it works well in every category so far except accuracy. I really want it to succeed, but if it doesn’t I won’t give it more of a chance than I gave to the Dreamlite.
BB
“I wonder if you had sent the FX Dreamlite back to the factory like you are doing with the RAW Micro Hunter if you would have liked the Dreamlite”
Well it seems that David touched a very delicate spot. Discrimination is a word that comes to my mind, but then again I am not that fluent in English.
Bottle line is only accurate and dependable guns are interesting.
I have an off-topic question that I hope to get some advice on. I just received a used Diana Chaser pistol/rifle kit. It has the two removable barrels which have two o-rings each. They appear to me to be okay, but I think that I want to apply a little lube to them. My question is which lube to use on those barrel o-rings. I have some Crosman Pellgunoil, and some RWS Chamber Lube. I also happen to have some Aladdin Magic Lube II (which is like a grease, and is recommended for the o-rings in our swimming pool equipment), and some Blaster Silicone Lubricant spray. Which one of these lubricants would work best? Thanks!
Elmer,
I would use any of them. The silicone chamber oil will work but it might be thin for this job. The Aladdin grease sounds good, as long as it isn’t petroleum-based.
BB
Thank you vewy much!
Elmer Fudd,
Get the Safety Data Sheet for the product you choose to use. Most air tool lubricants are for low pressure systems and are hydrocarbon (petroleum
based as Tom tells you above) based which doesn’t play nice with the hpa we typically use.
Even most mineral oil based air tool lubricants are hydrocarbon derived.
Food grade or breathing air lubricants are more expensive but every time you shoot your airgun or run your compressor (even if it doesn’t explode) you will be breathing the fumes from the product.
shootski
Thanks Shootski, I will do that.
For anyone who might be interested, here’s a link to the MSDS sheet for the Aladdin Magic Lube II:
http://aladdin1950.com/application/files/6214/7706/4223/650__651_Silicone_Magic_Lube_Safety_Sheet_2016.pdf
First off, I love and respect BB, both professionally and as a friend. I didn’t mean what I said as something against him.
I think one of the disadvantages of a very adjustable gun is that you may mess with it for way to long thinking that it must just need one more period of tinkering before you come to the conclusion that there is just something wrong with the rifle.
BB went above and beyond the time he spends on most guns trying to make the Dreamlite shoot well for him. By that time I think he was just Done with it. But, I just wonder if the factory would have sorted it out. It is much easier to come to the conclusion that something is wrong with a more simple gun.
One last point,
BB doesn’t have the time to send every gun that doesn’t shoot well for him back to the factory. And, we all want to know how the guns shoot out of the box. We want him to tell us the truth, not sugar coat it. I expect most any manufacturer can hand select and tune a gun to shoot better than the ones we buy.
David Enoch
David,
Thanks. That’s pretty much how it is.
Next week I will have another accuracy test with some surprises.
BB
David Enoch,
What you wrote is very true about complexity.
Maybe we need a blog about the indicators of an airgun going bad. Obviously there are the prompt failures that are pretty easy to recognize. But the failures that happen gradually in increments or worse still intermittently are an interesting area.
I will say that Tom is always talking up Chronographs but there are other things like how he noticed his groups growing and taking on the linear tendency. If he had not been documenting with photos and his writing would even the Godfather of Airguns® have noticed as quickly an apparent failure pattern?
I know i harp about recording D.O.PE. (Data On Previous Engagement) often but perhaps blog(s) about the typical failure modes for the various powerplants could be instructive. Most of the information is already in the many blogs Tom has already written.
Perhaps we need an AI system to research the blog and mine the data and write the blogs for B.B., LOL!
shootski
BB,
I’ve only owned and used coil springer rifles among the airguns, extensively and prolongedly Diana 27, so I may talk about those only and not get enabled with the other types!?
Well, fine with me. 🙂
Today’s piece makes a lot of sense. There is no point to worry about the happenings that we have no control over. A very good example to this is the springer market. We’re just not going to be listened to. But we have control over what we do with what’s sold in the market today. Here’s what the folks at other forums have done with the Hatsan 95. They replaced the crown and screws, depowered the spring, mastered the quattro adjustment, removed the fiber-optic sights, and of course, replaced the oem scope with a decent one. In .22 and .25 cals, they claim the 95 has become very accurate.
https://www.pyramydair.com/images/customer_imgs/2678_9bd23b7d_c13e_4268_90d0_d96c654d948b.jpg
https://www.airgunnation.com/attachments/c50ef2ad-ed61-47c7-a9a9-403b6c9c4ea8-1642037227-jpeg.192607/
‘Recrown,’ I meant to say. They also talk about replacing the screws on the quattro trigger with longer ones, which can make the trigger very light. There is also a little screw on the vortex gas piston that lets you release air, or add with a pump – but gasrams are out of scope for me. 😉
Tom,
Off-topic, but I think no one will mind. I stumbled upon these two articles, and even those who, unlike me, are not old enough to have grown up with Evel Knievel (or Awful Knaufel), check these out. you will not be sorry.
https://www.ebay.com/motors/blog/evel-knievals-harley-davidson-stratocycle-from-viva-knievel/?_trkparms=parentrq%3Ae6abc61e18a0ab94d36e772bfffea2a2%7Cpageci%3Aa982f0ad-5fa4-11ee-84ed-468f0edf4c47%7Cc%3A3%7Ciid%3A1%7Cli%3A170418
https://www.ebay.com/motors/blog/the-evel-knievel-x-j44-widow-maker-jet-cycle-for-sale-on-ebay/
Michael
Michael, as an airgunner/motorcyclist, I found both articles fascinating; thank you! 🙂
Geez, if only he’d had half the aerodynamics of those “squirrel suit” glider fellows . . . .