The Diana Octoberfest Gewehr.
This report covers:
- Groenewold lead BBs
- The test
- Beeman Perfect Rounds
- Summary
Today I try two more lead BBs in the Diana Oktoberfest Gewehr. John Groenewold got some 4.4mm lead balls in and reader Michael sent me a gift of a pound to test in this rifle. To round out the test I also tried some obsolete Beeman Perfect Rounds that were made by H&N. We may assume they are similar to the Smart Shot that H&N also makes, though these are not plated with copper. There are many more sizes of lead balls available in Germany where H&N is headquartered, and isn’t it odd that the 4.4mm balls we need for the Oktoberfest are not available in the U.S.?
Groenewold lead BBs
I have some lead BBs from John Groenewold on hand but I was unable to find them for this test. So, thanks to Michael, I now have a pound’s worth. That’s how they come — loose in a plastic bag. A pound is about 950 BBs.
Michael said his Groenewold BBs measured — well, here, I’ll let him tell you.
“Most of my JG lead balls are pretty uniform and measure 4.29mm. Every now and then I’ll measure one that is as large as 4.34mm.”
So I measured one of them. I got 4.28mm. That’s pretty small. It’s a lot less than 4.4mm. I wondered how well these balls would do in the Oktoberfest. Only one way to find out. Yippie!
The one Groenewold BB I measured came in at 4.28mm.
The test
I shot the Oktoberfest off a sandbag rest at 5 meters. The rifle was rested directly on the bag. I wore my reading glasses with a +1.25 diopter correction to see the front sight sharply. I shot 10-shot groups. This is exactly how I have tested the rifle twice before.
Ten Groenewold BBs went into a group that measures 2.26-inches between the centers of the two holes farthest apart. That’s not a good group! In the previous tests even steel BBs shot better. So Groenewold BBs are not for the Oktoberfest — at least not for what I want to do.
Ten Groenewold BBs went into 2.26-inches at 5 meters. This is not a good BB for the Oktoberfest.
I was going to call it a day after the one group, but there were some other lead balls I hadn’t tried yet. The first were 4.55mm zimmerstutzen balls that measure 4.49 to 4.54mm. The first one failed to drop all the way into the tubular magazine, so I didn’t force them. The last thing I want is to have to disassemble this rifle to clear a jammed BB.
Beeman Perfect Rounds
I also wanted to try some Beeman Perfect Rounds. They say 4.5mm on the tin, but this test series has taught us that those numbers are only ballpark figures. You have to measure the balls to find out for sure.
I only had about 15 BBs left in a tin and they measured between 4.4 and 4.5mm.
Beeman Perfect rounds measured 4.44 to 4.45mm in diameter.
Because they are larger there was no doubt in my mind that Perfect Rounds would be more accurate than Groenewold BBs. We know for a fact that the Oktoberfest likes larger BBs. But — would they be as accurate as the German 4.4mm lead balls that were tested in both Parts 3 and 4 of this series? Those BBs are super uniform, which I believe adds to their accuracy.
Well, the Oktoberfest put 10 Perfect Rounds into a group that measures 1.302-inches between centers at 5 meters. That puts Perfect Rounds behind those super-uniform 4.4mm balls from the pink tin and also slightly behind the German 4.4mm lead balls from the green tin. That last one (the difference in group size between the 4.4mm BBs in the green tin and the Perfect Rounds) is too close to call, so if I find another tin or two of Perfect rounds they will be okay for the next test, which is shooting the Oktoberfest at the BadaBang electronic target.
The Oktoberfest put 10 Beeman Perfect Rounds into a 1.302-inch group at 5 meters.
Summary
Okay, I have tested the Diana Oktoberfest Gewehr with every lead BB and ball to which I have access. There are other lead balls in the world — especially in Europe — but they aren’t easily available in the US.
I still enjoy the Oktoberfest, though I have to admit that it isn’t the airgun I was expecting. Instead of a less expensive Diana model 30, it stands by itself as a personal shooting gallery gun.
When we next see the Oktoberfest I will give you something to do with it. And it will be more than you expect — I hope!
Tom,
Definitely an uphill battle for the Oktoberfest as that the right sized ammunition is not available to put up a good fight against the 499. Could there be a conspiracy that the proper administration is not being made available?
Siraniko
Durned spell check! Ammunition not administration.
Siraniko
Very likely it is not available because there is no demand. Shipping costs across the pond are not cheap. If a large enough demand appears, I am certain someone will fill it.
RidgeRunner,
Then it is a failure on the part of Marketing to take into consideration the ammunition required by something they are selling. The price point is attractive but the fun potential is held back by the lack of accurate ammo.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Oh, I agree with you. Maybe if enough of these sell, someone will sell lead balls to fit it.
RidgeRunner: I wrote H&N about SmartShot. I inquired about any pending shipments of the copper-plated lead rounds to the US. The response was that there were no orders! What? I have four 1500 count bottles of SmartShot on back order at P/A. I guess i could mean that orders were prior filled in Germany and the loads are in transit or awaiting customs and transport here? All I really know is that there will be very little shooting of the Model 30 until I receive the order from P/A.
I do agree that there seems to be some timing disconnect at Diana. The modular 34 comes out with no modularity of parts. Now the 30 comes out with a poverty of ammo. Germans are usually so organized, but they’re certainly having their issues of late!
LFranke, what is your Model 30? If it’s the Diana 30, then have you the old or new one?
LFranke,
Let’s see. How many world wars did the Germans lose? Have not the Germans had difficulties supplying Ukraine with weaponry? Were not the Germans sucked in to being fuel dependent on the Russians? Did not the Germans recently have a mass breakdown of their latest fighting vehicles and have to send their old ones to NATO?
I am not impressed.
I made a mental error, my rifle is the Oktoberfest which is the consumer Model 30 not the Gallery (PRO?) Model 30. It’s the second class Diana citizen. Sorry to confuse.
RidgeRunner does point out that there is no magic in the Germanic business model. I can agree with that. Their stuff is often very good but then one runs into strange failures like the “L” shaped return spring on the 5GTO1 that fatigues after 3,000 and has to go on a trip to Arkansas to UMAREX for its replacement. I found the same kind of weird failure with my Vigo kitchen sink. a The hand sprayer valve stem needs a thermoplastic small domed piece with a stem on it to interact with the sprayer handle. Vigo can’t supply me with a new “button” and would replace the whole sprayer head. It’s just stupid!
I still think it is made like this, to not by very accurate… For the 100% statement we would need to test 3 samples at least.
I doubt that it was purposefully made to lack accuracy. What Diana sells is accuracy of their products. I have never had an accuracy problem with Diana products since 1989 when I bought my Modle 36 in .177.
I have had a durability issue with my 5G-TO1 pistol related to a peculiar “L” shaped spring that fatigues and breaks around the 3K mark. That spring brings the steel blocking piece out of the trigger so it can fire – it is part of the automatic safety mechanism.
I suspect that there are real limits to throwing a round projectile through the air and getting it to spin in rifling due to the tiny, tiny contact point of a sphere on the lands. If the rotation is off, that sphere is going to go elsewhere. I believe that a particular “spin” on a baseball is what makes the famous “curve ball.”
However, proper projectile to bore fit IS a big deal. My Hatsan 135 in .25 taught me this and tested my patience and creativity. It shoots today because of an off-hand comment by a participant in the blog, here, about JSB Monster Exact Extas II’s being so over-size that they were VERY difficult to push into the breech. I had an Ah Ha! moment and bought some and they FIT the oversize Hatsan bore.
So…I am hoping against marketing hope that we can get the message to Diana to send the right rounds west across the salty main and get proper ammunition for the Oktoberfestghewer.
For those that want new Christmas tree ornaments for next year, how about when it comes time to take the tree down, you use the old ornaments as target practice? lol
-Y
What a mess to clean up, though it would be fun. You could think of it as practicing your squirrel hunting skills.
I can see where this would be a fun little plinker. I do wonder how it compares to the Diana 30. Ah well, unless one of us should just happen to stumble upon one at an outrageously great price, we will not likely know.
I must have missed it somewhere, why no loosey goosey hold?
RidgeRunner, what kind of comparison to the Diana 30?
For me the battle is between the Daisy 25 @ 44.00 and the Oktoberfest @ 170.00. You almost get four Daisy 25’5 for the price of one Oktoberfest. I recently purchased a 25 from PA and am over the moon for it. Yes, it’s a China 25 but for now out of all my toys it is getting the most use, just a little tweaking and you have a very nice,fun ten meter plinker. I use the 25 for a comparison because when I was a kid the 25’5 were at every Parish fair and Church fair(South Louisiana) used for a challenge of popping balloons or target shooting. Never had a 25 as a kid but I intend to remedy that and get a 60’s vintage one soon.
I paid $35 for my 1959 Daisy Model 99. It is not quite a 499, but it is close and holds hundreds of bbs.
I Think. My Brother had a 99 when we were kids. Does the 99 have a shot tube similar to the 25 , force feed ?
So, Tom Gaylord hopes to have some exceptional homework for owners of an Oktoberfest rifle; I wonder what he could possibly have in mind? 🙂
Tom,
Too bad the JG BBs aren’t more accurate in your Oktoberfest. I have shot mine at a target only twice now thanks to freezing temperatures and a thin blanket of snow on the ground. I did not take measurements with calipers but went with the far easier but less accurate tape measure. I also shot just 5 shot groups. The groups were slightly smaller than yours, but that is of course due to half as many shots for each. Two big differences from your much more scientific approach. I also put three shots into a soda can about 7 meters away.
Compared to my Haenel 310 my Oktoberfest is much more substantial and sturdy-feeling. My Oktoberfest cocks with far less effort than my Haenel 310, shoots much more smoothly, and is also remarkably quiet. My Haenel shoots with a little twang.
Again, I hoped the JGs would be just the ticket. Do you or any friends have some waterfowl shotgun shells? A quick look at a chart informed me B shot is 4.32mm and BB is 4.57mm. In the UK those are BBB and BBBB, respectively.
Michael
Michael,
I’ll keep working on it. And thanks for the BBs! 🙂
BB
Tom,
You’re welcome!
Michael
Michael,
Since you are obviously more impressed with the Oktoberfest than your Haenel 310, why not send your 310 to live at RRHFWA. I feel certain I can find a room for it. 😉
RR, I am not surprised by your interest, but I can’t find it. :^( It is in my basement somewhere, and I will keep an eye open for it. It is not especially accurate, perhaps less so than the Oktoberfest.
Michael
Michael,
That’s OK. I need another airgun around here like I need another hole in my head. I just do not have an Haenel.
RR, you are shameless, but you never know unless you ask. ;o)
Roamin Greco, you said what I thought… 🙂
To all-
This may be a few days early for Christmas, but I wish all of you may continue to administer ammunition to appropriate targets with your favorite air shooters!
Thanks pacoinohio.
Maybe a little early for you, but, for me, Christmas is more than a day, ie the decorations go up around the 1st advent and they last until the 6th of January.
My online purchases for Christmas presents have to take place in November, to allow for a timely reception. In the shops, Christmas themed products appear after Halloween, sometimes even before.
Come to think of it: YOU’RE LATE ! 🙂
My Mum always says “it’s the thought that counts” and so, girls, consider yourselves hugged, boys, shook by your hand – and may you, at least for a moment, wear a happy smile. 🙂
Merry Christmas.
Need Help. I’ve been looking at BB guns and the Oktoberfest appears to be perfect for my need. I did see in the Pyramyd reviews that someone is using Number 9 shot in place of the HN BB. Does that make sense and more importantly, would it work. 25 lbs at a relaeding site appears reasonable and would last a lifetime. I also did see a BB gage reviewed and would that help
Sorry for the long message
JDA001
jda001,
Number nine birdshot is far too small for this rifle. It isn’t even large enough for a Sharpshooter catapult gun! Don’t buy it!
A BB gage would help if you sorted with it, but I doubt any of them go as large as the 4.4mm shot that works best.
BB
BB
Thank You Guess I’ll stick to my RR for now until they get the ammo sorted.. Been thinking of getting one of those cork gun 3 D printed barrel add ons on ebay and turning one RR into a #3 cork gun. Might be nice to have a European and US carnival gun.
Kind Regards
JDA001
jda001, I would try to avoid getting any balls stuck inside any airgun, and particularly the Oktoberfest rifle (not quick and easy to clear). So yes, double checking that one does not load an oversize ball, with the use of some kind of gauge, is very good thinking. Besides, it should also help with accuracy! 🙂
jda001,
On wikipedia there is a page for “shot (pellet)” that is detailed and instructive. The following is from that page and would be the shot size most likely to work in the Oktoberfest. But some of the more obscure shot sizes must not get produced very often and are hard to find for sale.
B (USA) BBB (UK) [for] Waterfowl 0.17 inches 4.32 millimeter
Michael
Michael
Thank You for the response. I did find a #9 lead ball in an European shop. I guess they use a different standard and they call it a #9 round ball. I guess I’ll wait for the Diana shot to make it to the US before I purchase the Oktoberfest .
Thanks all for the guidance
JDA001
jda001,
“I did find a #9 lead ball in an European shop. I guess they use a different standard and they call it a #9 round ball.”
NO. You are incorrect and BB/Tom is correct. In both Europe and the United States #9 is the same size, 0.08 inches (2.032 millimeters). It is less than half the size that the Oktoberfest will shoot. It might even be so small as to jam the Oktoberfest mechanism. Either you misread the description of that European shop or they published a misprint,
Michael
Michael
Thank You for the response. Please find attached what I was able to find on thenAmazon European site
jda001, I would caution against these in an Oktoberfest rifle because of the real chance (!) of a stuck ball.
My tin contained quite a variety of sizes, some too small, some measured 4.4mm but some were bigger. Also, they were not uniformly round, ie repeated measurements at different points of the same ball produced different diameters.
I have made one of my lead ball shooting, bolt action airguns unusable due to some of those No 9s. I cleared the blockage but now the gun doesn’t work anymore… 🙁
By comparison, my copper plated lead balls, by Diana or Händler & Natermann, measured to be slightly undersized and more round, which means, I think of them as safe to use. 🙂
Michael,
This ball is not birdshot. It’s a zimmerstutzen ball as in here: /article/Zimmerstutzen_February_2011/82
BB
Tom and Everyone who has offered their most welcome suggestions,
I received my exchanged Dragonfly Mk 2 late yesterday and after letting it warm up slowly in its box overnight, I just took it out, looked at the 10 for $10 paperwork, saw that this one has a clean barrel (!), tightened the forearm screws, which needed a small amount of tightening (Blue Loctite later today), and then I dry-fired it in the neighborhood of 10 shots with eight pumps for each shot. I also put some Pellgunoil on the pump head.
The 10 for $10 does not test the pumping effort on multipumps. The “Services Performed” checklist shows 10 shots were fired over the chronograph, the chrono tape was enclosed (more on that below), the rifle cocked reliably for all shots, and the trigger functions correctly for all shots.
At first it was sticking slightly (but only slightly) at the end of the opening stroke and during the air compressing stroke. But by the end of the 80 pumps, the jerkiness lessened until it finally became almost smooth. I can easily imagine it getting smoother yet once I lightly lube the mechanism and work it a little more. I haven’t tested the pumping effort on my scale yet, but it stays nearly constant from one pump to the next and my neighbor’s commercial mail scale measures 23 pounds for most pumps. So this one is probably a keeper. :^D
The 10 for $10 chronograph test documents the following velocities with 7 grain RWS pellets:
Shot 1, power factor six, 867 fps.
Shot 2. power factor six, 858 fps.
Shot 3. power factor six, 807 fps.
Shot 4. power factor six, 840 fps.
Shot 5. power factor five, 784 fps.
Shot 6. power factor six, 817 fps.
Shot 7. power factor five, 728 fps.
Shot 8. power factor five, 747 fps.
Shot 9. power factor five, 645 fps.
Shot 10. power factor five, 698 fps.
What is “Power Factor”? On another 10 for $10 certificate I have for a springer air rifle, the power factor is three for all shots. A spread of 50 fps for the shots with a power factor of six and especially a spread of 139 fps for the shots with a power factor of five are pretty wide, but it hasn’t had enough wear-in time, so maybe that isn’t unusual.
But again, what is power factor?
Michael
P.S. Thanks very much for everybody’s patience with me through all of this.
Wow Michael, it seems your amazing patience has been worthwhile. I almost suggested to demand a refund and not to give them your custom. And I would have been wrong, while you were right to persevere.
Michael, you are a better, more tolerant man than I !
Merry Christmas 🙂
Michael
The 10 for $10 my rifle tested at PA involved 99 pumps. They reported velocities at various numbers of pumps. The important thing for me was a techy had to do a lot of pumping and any problems with pumping would negate shipping such rifle to a me. I have no idea what the test means for your rifle. Just hoping it is a good one.
D3ck
BB
I noticed that the target for the Beeman shot had all but one hole inside the 6 ring,, or roughly the size of your dime. Generally you mention clusters like this. While certainly not 499 territory, it really wasn’t a bad target.
And, I wondered, as did RR, why the artillery hold wasn’t used. My memory , like the rest of me, has not aged well, so you may have mentioned something about that in one of the previous posts.
Ed
B.B. and Readership,
So according to RidgeRunner this is an air rifle everyone should really like…so inaccurate with available ammunition that it won’t ever get boring trying to make it shoot better?
Thank heaven few would try to hunt with this Diana!
Maybe it needs to be shot only after drinking a few Mass of Oktoberfest Bier.
AND ONLY if the muzzle is chained to the gallery counter with a very short length of it at that!
In my book an uninteresting airgun until or IF ammo that helps improve accurate fire is found.
shootski
Reading Tom Gaylord’s report inspired me to shoot my Diana labelled airgun, also in 4,4mm calibre, that is also a bolt action repeater and also shoots lead round balls. I tried to copy Tom Gaylord by also shooting benchrested at a paper target, that I also placed five metres away.
I had filled the airgun’s magazine with copper plated lead balls, that Händler and Natermann call Präzisionsrundkugel.
While I was enjoying the plinking, one 5-shot group – yes, only half the number that Tom Gaylord shot – appeared that was so small, it really surprised me (see the bragging picture).
It appears that, when all the stars and (!) the whatnots align, then even I, am given a good result. Now I feel motivated to seek an unlikely repetition … 🙂
Oh yeah, the airgun I used, although it has been thought of as manufactured deliberately imprecise, comparable and confused with the Diana Oktoberfest rifle, and I think of as rather different, is the Diana 30 neo. 🙂
Nice shooting, Mr. Hihihi!
Guys,
I have to reject all I thought about it all the time watching the BB’s test progress. I bought one Oktoberfestgewehr. It came yestarday afternoon. I started first to clean everything I could, the barrel especially. I was amazed about how good, big and rifle like it is. The barrel is rifled and had a pretty nice crown made. All metal parts looks really good. The second “wow” was to fill the magazin – how great idea it is to use this aluminum cone device to put all BBies at once without loosing none. Just great.
I started to shot with it. Oh man… I was lost for several hours, shot around 400 shots at once. After that I was amazed again how the trigger and the whole system stabilized. The groups started to be really tight. Now I know already that it will be my favorite all-rounder plinker!
I tested the Diana Oktoberfest round balls (4.4mm, 0.48gram) dedicated for this gun – great. Also the H&N (a bit heavier, 0.5gram) are ok and accurate. Talking about it – tested free hand 8meter distance. For a plinker I don’t need more! After 100 shots there is a whole one inch diameter and that without any bench support. I assume without wind you can shoot can-a-like target at up to 20 yards without any problems.
Velocity is pretty stable, now around 360-380fps for the Diana balls. This thing is damn accurate for such a device at this price.
To be honest – again I learned to first try things before I will judge. I’m alread addicted to it, it makes just so much fun!
Remarks: the barrel was dirty as hell out of the box. It helps to make it clean at the beginning.
The accuracy will come first when the system sattles down, don’t judge after 100 shots.
After 500 shots out of the box I put some silicone oil into the barrel and I left the gun standing barrel up for the night (today middle in the night). It was really required for the piston seal. Now it is smooth like it should be. I put some grease on the trigger parts at the very beginning, and on all “moving against each other places”.
The mainspring was lubbed with some dark grease out of the box, not too much though, I left it first like it is. you can see it when you separate the system from the stock and remove the plastic cover above. The system now works just fine. Perhaps after 10k shots I will dismantle it and re-lube after cleaning.
Shoting cycle is smooth, very soft, with some good-feedback recoil and without any metallic noise.
For that price I’m pretty amazed to be honest, and it happens not very often recently to amaze Tomek at all. I wonder now what will the NEO model do 🙂 Definatelly it makes you addicted from first dose 🙂
OK I could not leave it be like this. I dismatle it, cleaned and put all together again. It is not easy. First I make one mistake and the trigger assembly was blocking the safety – you could not shot after put the system on the tension. It was not funny to discover when all work was done.
It has to be done – the result is amazing smooth cycle and the trigger which now is still long but butter soft, much more predictable. The accuracy increased. It is now fully OK for me at 10 meters for plinking.
The barrel can be cleaned all way down when the system is disambled – and I took a look all way through it. It is really nice inside.
The out of the box grease is terrible. You just need to do it once properly.
Warning: shar edges, I cut my finger badly durign the process.
Do not assemble stronger mainspring – you will kill the fun of it, probably the system will not hold for ever with a very strong spring. There is no need for this, after clean-lube it properly it is just pure fun to shot.
Tomek, thanks for your update. Any chance that you took pictures of the disassembly/ reassembly? You could write a great guest blog. I would be happy to help.
Tomek,
Could you kindly post in the latest blog? That way everyone can see it not only those who are subscribed to the RSS feed. Good to hear that the performance is better than the bad reputation that preceded it in your mind.
Siraniko
Roamin, Siraniko,
About the blog – I would be pleased to do it. Unfortunately, I did not document my steps – and there are some “stairs” you need to walk through. In general about this rifle – it would be difficult to write instruction blog for a beginner. There is for example action about dismantle the trigger group and put it back again with the proper position of the “bolt part below trigger” and the trigger part which is holding the piston while cocked, which needs to be hold up and put on the place together with all of it. Outch stuff. I was not aware what to expect on Friday when I started to dismantle it. Afterall I decided to do it or bust 🙂
What really helped me was the german blog here:
https://www.co2air.de/thread/105649-diana-oktoberfestgewehr-zerlegen-instandsetzen/
It is a good general instruction for some advanced tuner which is more than enough. Unfortunately it might be disaster for some unexpierenced user 🙁 It is difficult to describe some steps which just needs this “know how” coming from the pain (which I call experience if there are some lessons learned caused by the pain).
What do you mean to post it in the latest blog? Just like this – the latest I can see on today’s blog and comment? I thought it would be a big offtopic post, so I decided to put it in the last one about this rifle. Or do you mean the first page from the Oktoberfestgewehr topic? I try to be careful about offtopic 🙂
tomek,
There has never been a problem with an off topic post in all the years I have been reading this blog. Neither has there been accusation of hijacking. As long as the discussions are civil and family friendly no censorship either.
Siraniko
tomek,
Click on this:
/blog/
Then click on the latest blogs shown in that window. Look at who wrote them and click on the latest one from BB Pelletier.
BB