This report covers:
- Velocity
- Muzzle energy
- Price
- What BB wants
- How about you?
- Last words
The other day reader Vana2 said this, “(I) Know that the long range shooters favor the larger calibers but I’m wondering what the PRACTICAL applications are for a .30 caliber 80-90 foot pound airgun.
Please pardon that my perspective is that of sub-raccoon sized game that is easily managed with a typical .22 caliber PCP.”
To which reader RidgeRunner responded, “They are not of much use except for bench rest shooting and stuff smaller than deer. Like you said, you don’t have a use for that caliber. Neither do I.”
I agree with their sentiments. I don’t see any practical application for an airgun that shoots large, expensive pellets, yet is less powerful than a .25-caliber precharged airgun already in existence. But it doesn’t end there.
What about the horsepower wars currently going on in the big bore airgun world? I remember when 500 foot-pounds was thought to be more than enough, which it is. When your air rifle shoots a lead bullet completely through an 1800 pound American bison (and a 500 foot-pound rifle will do it when shooting from the side, unless the bullet impacts a large bone) how much more power do you need? Yet the Umarex Hammer and the AirForce Texan are now pushing past 750-800 foot pounds. And you don’t need to consult the tea leaves to see what’s coming next. That’s right — the 1,000 foot-pound “threshold.”
Now, let’s talk about what sells.
Velocity
I once had a guy at an airgun show ask me, “How many f.p.s.?” in reference to one of my guns that was for sale. I could tell from what he said, and more from the way that he said it, that he didn’t really know what he was asking, but he was looking for a large number. Any large number I said would have impressed him. I could have easily lied and made a sale, but I won’t lie. Also I didn’t want him to own any of my airguns. When I part with a gun I want it to mean something to its new owner.
Muzzle energy
There have already been airguns that generate a thousand foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. I saw one in the late 1990s. It was a greater-than-one-inch caliber (1.18 caliber as I recall) that fired a 7+ ounce lead doorknob at 450 f.p.s. It was powered by CO2 and was called CO Too Much. It weighed about 13 pounds and had to be rested on a table to be aimed. It kicked like a .375 Holland and Holland, which is quite a lot, in case you’re not familiar.
Price
Remember the hundred-dollar PCP? Some people want things that are super cheap, but when they see them up close they get upset because of all the plastic in them. I own the hundred-dollar PCP, which I bought from Dennis Quackenbush for — you guessed it — one hundred dollars.
Hundred-dollar PCP.
What BB wants
BB Pelletier doesn’t get to decide what people want, which is a very good thing. Because BB is an old curmudgeon! But he does get to write this blog, so here is what BB wants.
1. A precharged pneumatic air rifle that fills to 1500 psi, gets 20 shots at 15 foot-pounds in .177 caliber and can put ten good pellets into 0.375-inches at 25 yards when there is no wind.
2. A breakbarrel air rifle that cocks with about 15 pounds of effort and shoots an 8 grain .177 caliber pellet at around 650 f.p.s. I want the rifle to have open adjustable sights with no fiberoptics. It should be slim and svelte.
3. A spring-piston BB pistol with the same level of accuracy as the Daisy 499B. This one needs a great TWO-stage trigger and finely adjustable sights. I can imagine a competition at 5 meters that resembles 10-meter pistol matches.
4. A short scope (like a Bug Buster) that has a thin etched glass reticle and an eye relief of 3.5-4 inches to make positioning easier.
Is any of that possible? Yes! The USFT rifle I owned got 55 shots of 10.65 Baracuda Match pellets going 915 f.p.s on 1,600 psi. That works out to 19.8 foot-pounds. It put five pellets into a group smaller than 0.375-inches at 50 yards. What I just proposed is less in all respects, so with some thought given it should be achievable.
The scope is possible and I hope that someone is working on it right now.
The one thing that I don’t know about is the target BB pistol. I believe that it is well within the range of current technology, but is it something any company would want to build? Could they sell them? Would anyone buy a target BB pistol that might cost $200, yet only shoot BBs at 250 f.p.s.? Maybe they are right. Maybe there isn’t a demand for a super accurate BB pistol.
How about you?
I’ve told you what I want; now it’s your turn. Don’t just blurt something out. Please give us the reasoning for why you want what you say you want.
Last words
Here is the example of a product that I think was perfectly developed — the Seneca Dragonfly Mark 2. It is the finest multi-pump pneumatic I have ever seen, and that includes my Sheridan Supergrade.
I thought the Air Venturi Bronco was also the best of its kind when it was available. I would like to see more products developed like that with some though behind them.
Air Venturi Bronco.
BB,
I’m hard pressed to describe a gun that doesn’t exist. A cheap, lightweight and accurate SSP that would be ideal for indoor gallery use up to 10 meters and can be used for indoor pest control also. The downside would be you have to make a shot soon after closing the stroke though.
Siraniko
Doesn’t Izzy make one?
-Y
Siraniko, In a rifle, Daisy made the Model 953 (and its more expensive siblings, the 753 and 853).
/product/daisy-powerline-953-targetpro?m=585
For a pistol, Beeman makes the P17.
/product/beeman-p17?m=614
We have a Daisy 753S, and it is super-accurate at 10 yards.
As far as indoor pesting, they could probably dispatch a mouse, but so can a mousetrap and some peanut butter.
Roamin Greco,
I don’t know where I can obtain one since I am not on your shores nor am I capable of importing a used one even if bought legally anywhere in the world. Celebrate your right to own arms! My country still has draconian gun laws that do not easily allow possession or importation even if they are not really classified as firearms. Owning one is a privilege not a right.
Siraniko
Well said. What do you shoot, and where did you get it? What do you have to do to qualify to buy and own an airgun?
Roamin Greco,
Until recently we were limited by our enlightened lawmakers to either locally manufactured by boutique makers of multi stroke pneumatics or bulk filled CO2 airguns (can’t classify as firearm because CO2 puts out fires right?). Only recently have things loosened up with locally made PCPs and imported spring pistons have appeared in the market. It is possible to import an air rifle but it won’t be cheap nor will it be easy for just anyone requiring all sorts of hoops to go through. Currently I have an MSP and a CO2 rifle that has been converted into a PCP ( being very careful when filling not to exceed 1200 psi). Recently lucked into a Webley break barrel rifle (Turkish made though) and a Discovery. All airguns have to be registered if you intend to bring them out of the house. One risks outright confiscation if without registration.
Siraniko
What if parts could be imported from China and assembled domestically? One could start your country’s version of Air Venturi or Flying Dragon Air Rifles.
Roamin,
That brings up an interesting idea, the kit gun for the folks that like to tinker. It would be a gun sold as a complete kit of parts that you would assemble into a complete working airgun. Truly an air gunsmith training tool.
Mike
Roamin Greco,
Oh our local makers have adapted and used China parts already. Mainly for the tanks. Accurate barrels are something that our local makers have a difficult time getting hold of. Below are examples of locally produced air rifles. The external hammer system is quite popular here with a side swinging breech similar to the USFT Air rifle.
Siraniko
How about ALL guns had great triggers. Ones where you know exactly when they will go off. Just a wee bit not pressure and—-we are off——-
-Y
PS how about blue-tooth enabled PCP’s that will send you a notification when they about to go “off regulator”. lol
Yogi, I couldn’t agree more on the triggers. I have ranted plenty on this blog on that topic in the short time I have been lurking around here.
On the Bluetooth idea, maybe it could prompt Alexa to tell me how badly I am shooting or that it is time to reorder pellets.
A hard hitting (~5-6 fpe) co2 semi auto pistol or carbine. Quality built, accurate. For small pest control, target shooting and training with some power. Why? Just because there are many thousands of people around the world who don’t have access to firearms and want as much of a gun as possible, not just cheap replicas.
And in the USA I believe there are many shooters who now prefer to shoot in their space (home, backyard…) spending less on ammo but with a quality, powerful gun.
Bill
Seems to me you are describing the Crosman 160. except for not being semi auto. But it is easy to reload quickly for follow up shots.. It has a nice pre lawyered trigger.
Deck
Deck
I mean what I said in every detail although I appreciate your response. Co2 is the only alternative to pcp technology for constant air supply, even for a few shots, but without the gear and cost. So it’s the only way to get semi auto action besides the dark side. I would really like to see the full exploit of it.
You might though not understand why my dream is a 1860 Colt, .17 cal. Pellets inserting in dummy percussion nipples of cylinder, Valve as it is known, but made BY COLT in steel.
Bill
I have several Colt type reproduction wheel guns from that era but not the 1860 Army which has almost Luger eye candy looks for me. Don’t shoot them now because my range doesn’t allow twilight shooting. Phooey on not being able to shock and awe with sheets of fire and smoke.
Deck
Decksniper,
There was no reply possible yesterday. I’m not really subMOA YET! I got one SCREAMER, as Tom calls them, group yesterday at 50 yards that is 1/2 MOA. PURE LUCK! As it was my last 5 shot group of the day (#19) and I was mentally worn out. I also had cocked 3,420+ pounds so a TON (actually more of fun was had.
I have gotten to the point that 1/3 of the time or so i get MOA at 25 & 50 yards.
The PA MOA Challenge made me do it! LOL!
“SCREAMER” way lucky group #19 below.
shootski
Shootski
Mighty good shooting! Shot them again today in my Ruger Impact .22 caliber big store break barrel. Group was a round 1.59” but 7 slugs were in .65”. The trigger is actually easy to manage.
I should point out I have a Ruger Yukon big store break barrel in .177 that consistently groups 10 pellets inside an inch at 25 yards in spite of a difficult trigger.
Deck
Roamin Greco,
Huh? /search-results-ext?keyword=Pellet+pen
No lanyard…but you can get those at Office Depot, off an unsuspecting government worker at Happy Hour, or other similar places/people!
shootski
Deck,
Lady Luck can be particularly cruel to shooters! She gives us these outliers to drive us around the bend believing we are better than is really the case. I shoot unrested or practical/expedient support most of the time since that is what I need to know more than how to bench rest.
The PA MOA Challenge is fun and the slim chance of a shopping spree would buy more pellets, bullets (Slugs) and maybe a scope or two.
shootski
Shootski, great shooting!!
I can’t reply to you below, but the adjustable pellet seater is the part that I really like in the .177 set I currently have. But I want, no, NEED the same thing in .22. The lanyard is nice because you can hang the entire shebang from your neck, so you have the pellets and the seater handy.
Roamin Greco,
Thank you but like I told Deck it is Lady Luck’s doing on that group not a proven skill or maybe even a indication of the true precision of the air rifle…simple luck! I believe the SIG ASP20 in either .22 or .177 is capable of MOA but I am only able to get them to do it 1/3 of the time. So I’m not REALLY SubMOA capable…YET! Must shoot more…. YES!
Yea, I got one with the lanyard and one without…but only shoot one caliber at a time to avoid the DUH from happening more than it already does!
Have you called PA Customer Service to ask if they will be stocking them with lanyards in the future?
Hope they will since they really are nice in the field with gloves on.
shootski!
Bill, what about the Sig M17 pistol or some of the Japanese Airsoft semi autos, at least for training, target practice? Sig Also makes a CO2 AR-15 style carbine. And there is the Ruger 10/22 and the Crosman 1077 as well.
RG
I find them toyish and underpowered for what I have in mind. By the term repeater I don’t include the belt magazine, ideally.
Bill, you need to find a Crosman Mk1 LD conversion.
That fits the bill.
David
You just gave the answer to my wish. I went back to BBs relevant blog post and realized that the MK would be exactly what I want in Co2 version. Classic beauty, semi auto, powerful. Problem is that I will probably not find a decent one in EU.
Thank you anyway.
Bill. Crosman Mark I and II are different than Crosman Mk. But if you are interested in the single shot Mark I or II, I may have a solution for you. Email me at my user name then the number one at gmail.
I realize that the Mark I and II are single shot! Big mistake cause of hasty reading. After some more research it seems that the 600 was the true semi auto, although a bit ugly. It’s this kind of pistol I would like to see in modern look and production.
Thank you very much for your offer anyway.
BB
You asked for it.
I would like a belt fed pellet shooting 900+ FPS PCP copy of the Knights Armament Light Assault Machine Gun with tri burst select fire with the best of everything. An M14 EBR would do in a pinch.
A battery in the butt stock and a small powerful electric air pump that constantly maintains enough air pressure in small reservoir for a tri burst shot of full auto fire, built into a box fed removable mag. Rechargeable battery preferred.
Why? Because I enjoy shooting state of the art assault weapons … but can’t buy them.
Now a Crosman SAM in an RAI custom stock has satisfied me so far and the FX Indy (Compact) is all I can wish for in an all round perfect airgun.
The tri burst would come in handy with critters on the run !
Besides, I already have more than one of most every type of airgun there is … except dedicated 10 meter. Others can shoot just as well at that range for less money, in my mind anyway. No fun putting every shot in the same hole at will all the time. Long range challenge preferred.
B.B.,
Wood, good sights, and great triggers. The wood doesn’t even have to look good; it just has to feel good. My guns are for shooting, not staring at.
And that’s probably why my purchases of air guns tapered off after I got my HW75 and HW30S. What else does a pleasure shooter need?
Actually… on second thought, what I’d like is a HW75 with a grip-to-trigger distance like that of the HW40 and a HW30S with the pistol grip a bit closer to the trigger. I’ve apparently got much shorter fingers and smaller hands than Weihrauch’s standard customer, and I don’t recall seeing any ‘youth’ sized models from them in general.
Cheers,
Nathan
chanman819,
funny that you mention this. A while ago, I had some friends over and one of them shot the HW35. I noticed he was pulling the trigger with his middle finger. Turned out he couldn’t reach it that well with his index finger. He is fairly short, so it does make sense. The HW35 might not be the gun for him.
By the way, tuned Rekord triggers are available again (formerly known as V-MACH, now sold as AirJoe): https://www.jabolo.de/Tuning-Abzug-Alu-Weihrauch-Rekord-AirJoe-Premium/302502
(not sure who is the distributor outside of Germany).
They actually address the issue of the trigger blade being somewhat hard to reach.
As for the HW75: I would say I have medium-sized (but “meaty”) hands. The way I have adjusted it at the moment, once I have taken up the slack in the trigger, my finger tip is pretty much at the desired 90° angle.
So again, people with small hands could have some issues…
Stephan
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier), I am sorry that I lack the imagination to describe any detail, but I do know that I would like a new target.
“…Please give us the reasoning for why…”: well, for me, a new target would provide many new shooting experiences, ie as many as I have airguns for it. 🙂
Hi3,
Well, what does your new target look like?
BB
That’s the trouble, Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier), I don’t know.
Maybe it’s a new weather resistant plinking target that can be left outside.
Something designed to be shot at greater than 10 metre distance.
Maybe a reactive target that requires multiple hits, yet easily and wirelessly resets remotely. Shapeshifting and motion could be fun as well as the need for the shooter to move.
An integrated, projectile catching backstop would be the icing… 🙂
Or, maybe a quiet, no mess, indoor target, played in the dark, that randomly lights up various areas to be hit…
You see, I haven’t the imagination to even answer what my “…new target look[s] like…”, sorry. 🙁
hihihi,
Sounds like you need to see (and try) if they have a shooting simulator facility nearby. Or perhaps a Shoot House that uses simunition.
The simulator is probably more affordable.
shootski
Thanks shootski for your suggestions. Ideal inclement weather, indoor alternatives?!
Many years ago I played with infrared emitters in toy like guns, that I pointed at a tv screen or body-worn sensors. Despite much fun, neither were remotely like shooting an airgun or firearm.
I wonder if nowadays there are any simulators that can provide a genuine shooting experience?
hihihi,
No other place to reply: titraining.com
Their systems are an example of the best available civilian simulators.
shootski
Hi everybody,
I have several guns that pretty much tick all my boxes (nice wood and metal, good trigger, good open sights, accuracy, calm&quiet).
I wouldn’t mind if Germany followed the example of other EU states and made airguns up to 16 joule of energy legal without a permit. I’m completely happy with 7,5 joule on my 10 meter home range, but a little more oomph might be fun for shooting outside at longer distances.
Stephan
Stephan,
That is a good looking trigger. It’s on the pricy side, but I understand the time that is invested in modifying it.
BB
BB,
they make a “regular” and a “premium” version. Apparently, not all Rekord triggers are created equal. I think they select the ones they can safely adjust to a lower trigger weight and those become the “premium” ones.
https://www.airjoe.de/shop/abzuege/
They also sell tuning pistons, springs, etc… Maybe that’s an idea for a new report 🙂
Stephan
The world needs #3 on your list. 5 meter target bb pistol.
Kookla,
Well, that’s two of us. By the way, how are Fran and Ollie? 😉
BB
B.B.,
Make it a regulated PPPCP BB pistol and it might be a category killer.
shootski
Do we really need 4500+ PSI fill pressures? PCP air rifles used to operate quite nicely on 600-800 PSI. I had a Talon SS with a Weihrauch .177 barrel that I would fill to only 1800 PSI, with a hand pump, and get a GOOD 20+ shots. I had to shoot Eunjins to get below supersonic.
I do understand that with lower pressures I will need a longer barrel to be able to shoot larger projectiles with an effective FPE, but hey, I myself would not mind a Kentucky long rifle. A 24+ inch barrel is OK fine by me. I bought one of the last of the .22 Benjamin Maximus air rifles available on the market for under $150. 2000 PSI fill pressure. Think hand pump. 20+ shots at sufficient power to kill small game at 50+ yards.
Why not a big bore, say .457, that you could easily fill with a hand pump to 2000 PSI and get two or three 2 MOA shots at 100 yards. It would need to have a little over 200 FPE. 300 FPE would be great. Give it a 32-36-inch barrel if need be. Some good quality open sights (not glowy thingy) would be nice. I guess you would have to make it capable of accepting a scope to sell it nowadays. Old school style, no pistol grips or Pic rails everywhere. Long, slim synthetic stock, the Maximus has a nice one. It does not need to be silenced, but I guess the option of such would help it sell. Oh, and a good quality two stage trigger, although a nice single stage would do. All of this for under $1000? It can easily be done. Will someone do it? I doubt it.
RidgeRunner,
Thirty-two+ inch barrel and about ten pounds for a standard military Girardoni. The more elaborate presentation examples were a few more Pfundt. I can hear all the squawking about: too heavy to carry, cant mount my BugBuster, and the pump too! Also, just busted out the winder in my pick’em-up-truck try’n to get that Buck alongside the road! That dang barrels just too long! LOL!
But I STILL want one or maybe two!
shootski
Let them whine!
B.B. Third to last word, “though” should be “thought.” Siraniko, you are slipping. 🙂
This requires more thought than I have time for this morning, but I think we’ll be revisiting this report throughout the weekend.
Off topic, I received my 500 count box of Crosman CO2 cartridges from P.A. with the Labor Day Discount, free shipping, and some extra Bullseye Bucks I had (including some from playing the free MOA game) my cost ended up being around 34 cents apiece. Not bad, I think.
BB,
IMHO, there is no such thing as a perfect “do everything” airgun so there has to be some give and take on the requirements and the capabilities list. You can get close though 🙂
Can’t speak for “we” but I know what I want/need.
I like a variety of disciplines centered around off hand shooting so when you want to plink and target shoot with the same rifle the requirements quickly lean to the “high side” of the list. Some requirements might have to be compromised or dedicated speciality rifles have to be acquired 😉
For my main interests, (mostly plinking; some pesting; a bit of target shooting and occasionally small game hunting), I “need” a well balanced, light weight, accurate PCP rifle with a good shot count and reasonable power that is economical to shoot. The airgun has to be a side-lever repeater (my preference), have a good 2-stage trigger and be regulated. Functionality takes precedence over esthetics but I do appreciate a fine finish and would pay a premium to have a walnut stock instead of beech.
Lots of options on the market. Think that I lucked in to an ideal setup for my type of shooting with the .22 caliber FX Crown.
Hank
Now that I have acquired several vintage Diana breakbarrels in. 22, which have angled breech faces, I NEED a few Air Venturi Pellet Pens WITH a Pellet Seater and the lanyard in .22. Pleeeeeeease!
I could use a few extra in .177, too, but those are still around if you look..
Actually, I really just want the pellet seater. The adjustable pellet seater is a great tool, but they are hard to find for some reason. Probably because they are too exoensive for a plastic tool with a o-ring in it. They should be one of those items labeled as a promotional give away item with a large purchase. Like you can find ballpont ink pens that are labeled for advertising purposes. I would wear one with a lanyard labeled “Pyramyd Air” proudly at the range!
My Name is Honest Bob, and I approve of this message above me.
Roamin: Go to the Rapid Air Weapons (RAW) website. They still make a clone of the venerable Beeman Pellset Tool and it comes with a lanyard. It has a tapering point on one end and a ball on the other. The ball end is what seats the pellets properly to the breech. I ordered on several years ago and they simply mailed to me in a small manilla envelope. Since it has a ball end, hard anodized, it gives you control over the depth of seating the skirt into the breech.
Thanks for that. The vintage Beeman ones are even more expensive!
I didn’t even know that one could find an original Beeman Pellset! I have my old one and still use it but have the RAW on the lanyard when off my basement range. That lanyard means it keeps me from losing it.
I didn’t even know that one could find an original Beeman Pellset! I have my old one and still use it but have the RAW on the lanyard when off my basement range. That lanyard means it keeps me from losing it.
I also have a pellet sizer, I guess I’m a confirmed Old School Dude? LOL Try finding those things now days!
I’m an avid shooter, daily reader, wrote a guest blog once, but I rarely post comments. B.B., I agree with everything on your list, but have one more thing to ask for.
I don’t wish to make an unwelcome comment or start a political debate here, on the world’s greatest airgun blog.
Please manufacture the item in the United States or other country that isn’t a threat to the free world.
I’d very much like to have an AV-46 pistol and Dragonfly rifle, but I won’t give money to support dictatorships that threaten the United States, democracies of the world and free people everywhere.
I’ll gladly pay more and proof of that is in my gun safe, took box and on my reloading bench. B.B., like you, I started my Army career in a tank turret along the old East German border, and this is important to me.
It’s a beautiful morning, and I’m going outside to shoot my R7.
Best wishes to all!
Bob,
As one treadhead to another, keep ’em up and downrange! 🙂
BB
I understand Bob’s political comment and his good intentions. However, I now feel the need to state that my ideas differ (they’re more like Caitlin Johnstone’s).
It’s fine here too. Bob, you have inspired me to also pop outside for some plinking… 🙂
So, I went plinking and with my earlier comment about wanting a new target fresh in my mind, I thought, why not put a few holes through my plastic toy lorry. Unlike an airfix model, this hard body, remote control crawler turned out to be quite tough…
Being a military style vehicle, I thought to use my Diana Mauser K98. Then, to speed up the ‘action’, I switched to my military style repeater, a VZ 47. I also reduced the distance so I needn’t use binoculars to see impacts.
Interestingly, lead bbs didn’t always penetrate plastic, instead leaving dark traces of where they bounced off.
Finally I decided to try a larger caliber, my Diana 27 in 5.5mm. It too is an open sights plinker (1952 without scope rail) and at last I saw bits of plastic flying all over the place, hurrah! 🙂
Then I kept on reducing the distance until I was shooting point blank at the poor old lorry. What fun! 🙂
I’ll try to attach/upload a picture of the result/leftover…
Bob
I fully understand and respect your opinions but let me add a small point here. In case I had, God forbid, to defend free humans rights with a gun, I would choose an AK platform over anything close, even if it was made in Russia or China or Turkey for that matter. Purpose is more important than trade ethics for me.
I wouldn’t put Turkey in any AK platform list. The Turks have their own indigenous platforms at NATO standards or above.
Bob,
I can understand your not wanting to support the communist/dictatorship of China but I think that there is some value in buying China made stuff and it is a personal thing.
I see in my minds eye a guy in China, lets call him Joe China, every day he goes to the airgun factory and builds airguns mostly to be shipped to the US and he works hard to make the best airguns he can.
I think Joe China is a lot like me, he loves his family, good food, good fun and shooting his airguns. Hope that is legal in China, would be a shame if he built airguns for a living and could not shoot them.
But at the end of the month he can cash his paycheck and pay the rent and feed his family. We cannot change China by not buying their products but we may hurt the folks that are just trying to make a living in a communist country.
Just my thoughts on your comment and from the looks of current events it seems we are not too far from becoming a communist country, I hope not but things do not look so good.
Mike
Bob, I have had the same thought. If Weihrauch can build airguns that mature, discriminating adults want to buy, why can’t we build something here? We need to have airguns that grandparents can be proud to give to their grandkids, and with which the grandkids can hit what they are aiming at, right out of the box.
Great blog BB,
I compare this “no need for FPS” to “suddenly I started to like jazz” (happens somewhere 35+ years old).
The whole family was on a ranch in Poland few weeks ago, so the grandmas and grandpas could have tons of fun with grandchildren. We shot a lot airguns with grandpa, I took 4 rifles with me and 2 more were on site. The most fun was made using some .22 low powered springers (like 10 ft lbs), HW30s and something like Stormrider .22 at 26 ft lbs. My darling FWB300s is not usable with peep sight for plinking. It is just not a tool for that purpose.
I came to an conclusion that there is no perfect one airgun for all. Like the sound system… So for me I found out I need three types and that’s it.
I found out also, sometimes not the best quality airgun is the one you would just take and shoot. It has to have something, might be recoil which makes fun, or accuracy for all cost. I think you can’t have everything in one piece.
Tomek, try this experiment with your FWB: 1) insert a post insert in the front sight if you can, 2) unscrew the rear sight aperture leaving a larger “ghost ring” 3) plink away! Let me know how it works.
Thanks Roamin! I know what you mean.
I can of course put the scope on the 300 but… somehow I hesitate to do that.
B.B.,
I am a mostly contented man with a brace of airguns that meet almost each and every of my needs. I will say the bb gun pistol in PPPCP or even optionally well above Price Point would interest me. Bob M’s ELECTRIC select fire platform sounds of interest IF really well executed. And, of course RidgeRunner’s MDG (Modern Day Girardoni) is in the cart for any price under US $4,000.
We all should be thankful to be living in a True Golden Age of Airgunning.
shootski
Shootski
“RidgeRunner’s MDG (Modern Day Girardoni”; exact description of a very good idea. If only I could afford the cost you mentioned. Then again the Texan platform might be transformed to RRs standards…
Bill,
Texan is NOT a whole lot less $$$$ and how much would that twenty shot magazine, loader mechanism add to the cost?
shootski
I wish I knew but I can always dream. (Smile)
Bill,
Go shoot what you got!
You will feel better right away!
Dreaming is what you do at night…LOL!
shootski
Air Venturi Bronco: Prince of Wales grip, Turkish walnut stock, and Diana 27’s two-stage trigger – no plastics. I would like the Bronco to make a comeback with better quality. She has got to be turned into a timeless classic, and above is my recipe for that.
Diana 240, with the current iron sights on the Diana 350 Magnum Premium. 240 could replace the empty spot from Izh60.
Doesn’t the R7/HW30 fit the bill?
The more options in the market are the merrier!? Such Bronco could deliver the same benefits as 30S, only half the price. Just imagine the Bronco with a ‘real’ trigger and dressed in Turkish Walnut stock – no plastics anywhere.
I think you are on to something. I would be happy with beech. I would also like the option of a stock that starts of with a 10″ length of pull and either adjusts or can add back slices of stock as the shooter grows. Not all of us have the skills to slice up a stock. Make it in the U.S., too.
Roamin,
Good idea, a cheaper synthetic stock version of Bronco could have the adjustable LOP. The 240 I suggested could have an option like that as well. However, the no plastic wood stock version of the Bronco has got to come with Turkish walnut stock in adult size; she would be a beauty. We want cheap without compromising on the quality. You see I didn’t suggest the Record trigger or such perfect and expensive components; I mentioned something based on the Diana 27 trigger, because it was a two-stage crisp trigger while being crude and simple. The point of my Bronco vision is reaching the performance of the 30S for under $200. That would be serious business, especially if she happened to grow up to become a beauty.
To all our UK friends here, RIP Queen Elizabeth. Although I’m not British, she’s the only Queen I’ve known and that makes her special to me.
Half
I’m not British either but some ancestors are. Played Lord Mount Batten in a 5th grade play. I have come to realize that I married a special lady in that royal wedding reenactment.. I was also fortunate to be in London for her 50th. She represents the opposite of today’s rancor exhibited so obviously by so many. God bless and rest the Queen.
Deck
FM’s head spins at the realization he was not quite two when she became queen. God bless her and keep her close. Can think of others who should have gone before her, but keeping that to myself lest the nuns in my little Catholic school are directed to come back and wack my bum with a big wooden ruler.
I agree. A remarkable woman she was. Hard to imagine anyone will ever again rule a country for as long and be so truly beloved.
Indeed, a wonderful woman gone now but will never be forgotten.
–
I have such a variety of airguns that it’s hard for me to think of something that fits the subject. I guess the one gun that I am lacking and longing for is one that doesn’t exist. A normal firearm sized accurate handgun repeater that runs on air/gas at 9FPE or better. Due to physics, the current CO2 offerings just can’t produce the energy in a short barrel of a handgun and the PCP versions out are understandable way oversized and heavy. Think Umarex Beretta 92FS or even Colt SA Army that shoots pellets, accurate to one inch within 15-20 yards and puts out 9.2FPE.
I may be wrong but I think it doesn’t exist because it can’t be done, so I will try to be happy with my variety for now 🙂
I want Crosman to develop a great trigger and put it on every spring piston gun they make.
Can you imagine what it would do for our hobby/sport if American kids got to start out shooting accurate starter guns?
Crosman is in every Walmart and sporting goods store- they could single-handedly improve the accuracy of every 12 year old in North America.
Is it strange that I’m jealous of German and British kids?
Amen to that!
Would love a sturdy, accurate airgun of simple function and design and centered around ease of maintenance/repair; would be willing to pay more for those features. This airgun would be made following he design and function philosophy of say, the Ford Modet T or the VW Beetle. Simple, reliable vehicles, easy to repair for the most part, got the job done without a lot of drama and complications. There are airguns out there that come pretty close to meeting those standards. For example, the Benjamin Maximus PCP – but that is only FM’s non-expert opinion. Above all, the experience with the gun must be fun!
Do wish someone would publish one of those “Idiot Series” books for airgunners. FM would be first in line to purchase a copy. Title: “Airgun Maintenance and Repair for Idiots.” Truth be told, have already learned a lot about that reading the articles and comments in this blog. Maybe what FM really needs is a book or manual titled “How To Not Fix Your Airgun or Anything Else If It Ain’t Broke.”
All you need to do is use Google Advanced Search (Google it) and set this blog (pyramydair.com/blog) as the website to search within, and search away. All will be revealed. And if not, just ask B.B., and someone around here is bound to have your answer.
Yes. That reminded FM of something else that should be part of expectations when deciding what one wants in an airgun: good customer service and long-term support. It would be worth paying a little more for the product to ensure that happens., at least for this airhead.
B.B., why did the Bronco get discontinued? Was it the shape of the stock? Did anyone ever do any market research about it? I find it ironic that in the last 6 months or so, I have not seen a single one offered on any auction website. That means they are cherished by their owners and are being handed down to people’s kids and not even sold at estate sales. Which tells me that they should sell steadily if offered again. Perhaps with options for different configurations of the same gun. Heck, I feel like I rediscovered airguns a tad too late and missed the party on the Bronco and the Sig ASP20!
Along the lines of your accurrized BB pistol suggestion, how about Airsoft replicas of popular defense guns that are actually really accurate? If the Airsoft BBs are just not inherently accurate, then perhaps a plastic molded pellet that can be fed from a spring loaded magazine, a belt, or a revolving cylinder, but that is super accurate, and won’t damage the walls in your house.
My deer rifle is a Remington 700 bolt action rifle in .25-06. Ammo is too expensive for the kind of practice that I would like to do, so I would love a pellet rifle that duplicates it in every respect, down to the weight, bolt throw, and trigger feel. I have dreamed of a replacement bolt that could hide a CO2 cylinder that might launch .25 caliber pellets from converted empty casings. Or a magazine insert and replacement bolt that might work in tandem to accomplish a similar result. That would allow me to shoot the rifle hundreds of times on the cheap and really learn to shoot it accurately when it counts.
BB,
I can’t think of any airgun I need that is not available if I include the used market. I guess my one request is that PCPs be as reliable as springers. I guess that takes more money to remove the burrs on more parts and to use better o-rings.
I think there is still room for improvement in the small compressors.
I do wish there was a modern equivalent to the Beeman Short Scopes.
David Enoch
“4. A short scope (like a Bug Buster) that has a thin etched glass reticle and an eye relief of 3.5-4 inches to make positioning easier.”
B.B.,
Ditto on that; I would love one of those!
Sorry to be late to the party here (crazy weekend), but as to what I really want…well, the two things I want in airguns have already been made:
1) a powerful air rifle that is so easy to pump that I can scope it without stressing either the rifle or the scope
and
2) an air rifle that is as powerful as my Sheridan, but easier to pump
The Dragonfly Mark 2 fills the bill for #1, and the Crosman 362 does the same for #2.
Hence, as you’ve said before, when it comes to airguns, these are “the good old days!”
I am one happy camper. 🙂
Take care & God bless,
dave
Thedavemyster,
Hahaha! I love it! 🙂
BB,
I’m late to this one, but your accurate bb pistol dream might be fulfilled by one of the airsoft target pistols available. I believe these are or were used in 5m competition in Japan.
The Maruzen APS-3 and Well P-362 are both under lever SSP pistols, this PSS-300 runs on gas.
The Maruzen APS-3
jfnz,
It’s airsoft, not a BB gun. The Asians don’t differentiate, but I do.
Thanks anyway,
BB