Marksman model 70 breakbarrel rifle.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8
Part 9
Part 10
Part 11
This report covers:
- My plan
- The trigger story
- Back to the report
- Sight inserts
- The test
- Predator Polymag
- Third Polymag group
- RWS Superdomes
- JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy
- Rear sight adjustment
- Discussion
- Summary
Well, I’m certainly getting some mileage out of this airgun! I was going to tune her next, but reader Roamin Greco asked me to test the accuracy of the latest tune and I agreed. I also read the ending of the last report and saw that I was going to try the Perfekt trigger, so several new reports have opened up.
My plan
After you see what happened in today’s test I think you will agree that a test with the rifle scoped is in order. After that I will install the Perfekt trigger, which came to me in the box with the rifle I thought Weihrauch had sent them out that way, but the fellow I bought the rifle from corrected me. Here is that story.
The trigger story
I bought the rifle from Dale Beckmann. He also sent me a set of sight inserts for the rifle, and in so doing he told me the story of the PerfeKt trigger.
“That being said, there are a couple of things I wanted to clear up regarding the trigger assembly. I ordered those guns in August 1992 (29 years ago!) They were advertised with the Record trigger group. They came with the Perfect trigger installed. I called Marksman to bring this to their attention and they immediately sent me 2 of the Record trigger assemblies with instructions on how to replace them. Pretty straightforward, drop the action, remove the old trigger group, drop in the new one.
I sent you both triggers because I ran across the Perfect trigger while going through a box of gun parts looking for something else. I thought it would be useful to you in your testing.
Also, the reason it went unfired all those years was it was to be inventory in a sporting goods business that never materialized when I relocated back to the mainland. The model 70s and several other guns, archery equipment, and related accessories all were in storage for over 20 years. Since it doesn’t look like the business is going to work out, at least in the way I thought, it might be time to release some of these items.
I had recently planned on selling off some of this stuff, but I’ve been involved in some other projects. I just didn’t have the time to properly market these items. Hopefully, I’ll be able to focus my attention on these items and “find” them good homes, so to speak, in the upcoming months.
I still have the .177 model 70. It has been fired, but it’s in the same condition as the rifle you received (box, papers, etc).
I shot a model 58-S silhouette variant back then. It was the only example I’ve ever seen, and it’s what caused me to become a Marksman dealer.
I wish I had that gun back but, who knew what was ahead for me (and the air gun industry). My life took a different turn and the rest is history.
Still, I have no regrets. I’ve been fortunate to do the things and know the people I’ve met along the way.
Oh, I just wanted to give you a heads up. There’s a set of front sight inserts headed your way. I’ll put these in an envelope to make it harder for them to escape.
If you know of someone who is “worthy” of the other Mod 70, you might direct them my way. I’m willing to throw my standards out the window for the right price.
No surprises there…”
Back to the report
So Roamin Greco asked me to test the accuracy, now that the rifle is back to almost its highest power. That seemed reasonable, plus I just like shooting this rifle.
Sight inserts
So when the inserts arrived I installed a square post up front. That messed up the sight picture. Before any of you tell me to switch the rear notch with one that’s more appropriate let me show you what it looks like.
That’s the rear sight on the Marksman 70. This is what happens when some BSF parts were used. Not a lot of options for the rear sight notch, are there?
The tapered post that the rifle came with is the best front sight insert with this rear sight. So I put it back.
The test
Since this is a simple before/after comparison, I kept the test at 10 meters off a sandbag rest. I rested the rifle directly on the sandbag, as before. I shot 5-shot groups so I could test a few more pellets, but I started with the best pellet from the last test.
Predator Polymag
I shot the 16-grain Predator Polymag first, as it was the most accurate in Part 11. Five went into 0.431-inches.
The first group of Polymags measures 0.431-inches between centers.
Well, the success of these pellets lead me to try them again. They hit a little low and left, but the rifle had been apart since I last tested it, so I adjusted the rear sight up and what I thought was to the right. The next group did rise, but went further to the left. The adjustments are not marked on the sights and this is what happens when you guess. Five pellets made a 0.552-inch group.
The centers of these five Polymags are 0.552-inches apart. And the group went to the left instead of the right.
Third Polymag group
What the heck? I wanted to get the Polymags into the center of the bull, so I adjusted the rear sight in the other direction this time. And they went where I sent them. Five pellets landed in a 0.639-inch group at 10 meters. As you can see, four of them are much tighter, which leads me to believe that this rifle is more accurate than these results show. Look at the first group that has the same thing.
The third group of Polymags is the largest, but it did go to the right place. Five pellets in 0.639-inches at 10 meters.
RWS Superdomes
I tried RWS Superdomes next. For some reason they landed much lower on the paper than the heavier Polymags. Five are in 0.612-inches between centers.
Superdomes hit below and to the right of the bull. Five in 0.639-inches.
JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy
The other pellet I wanted to try was a JSB dome. I selected the Jumbo Heavy and in the first group the Marksman 70 put five into 0.357, with four in just 0.156. This is the best group of today’s test. The pellets landed low on the target and in line with the center of the bull, left and right.
Group one of JSB Exact Jumbo Heavys landed low and in line with the center of the bull.
Rear sight adjustment
The Marksman 70 rear sight adjusts by an inclined ramp that is rather crude compared to detents. I slid the bar two notches higher and shot the second group.
Group two did go higher but still not as high as the bullseye. Like the previous group there were four pellets in a small hole (0.183-inches between centers) and one stray shot that increased the group to 0.391-inches between centers.
The second group of JSB Exact Jumbo Heavys measures 0.391-inches between centers, with four in 0.183-inches.
Discussion
The rifle shoots very smooth. I suppose some of the forward recoil is gone.
I’m curious how it would do if scoped. I’m also curious how the Perfekt trigger would affect things. To keep things on an even keel I think I’ll scope her first and then swap triggers.
Summary
I had no idea where this report would go with today’s test. I’m glad I was able to conduct it. There will be more to see!
BB,
Looks like you are too excited to take this out to the range. A few more shots to help settle you in and it would probably perform better. The JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy performance is really a tantalizing glimpse of the accuracy this rifle is capable of. This rifle might make more parts than the FWB 124!
Siraniko
Hi everybody…
Since you discussed the P1/HW45 yesterday, here’s mine:
I souped it up a bit. The grips are made by a guy who goes by the name ELAY_GRIFFE. I like them a lot as they don’t just look cool, they also help me with a consistent grip.
Inside, there’s a Tinbum tuning kit with rear and front spring guides. I also collapsed 1,5 coils of the mainspring as recommended by Tinbum for improved accuracy when using the tuning kit (it’s still noticeably more powerful than a Diana 5, which I determined with scientific splat and tin can tests).
And then there’s the dot sight. This one fits on the HW’s weird 13mm rail almost perfectly. It’s a Simmons that apparently isn’t made anymore.
I figure the dot sight helps me out in two ways. 1. It frees up brain capacity that I would need for aligning the sights and helps me focus on grip and trigger pull. 2. It adds mass that helps absorb the recoil.
I can absolutely say that, yes, the HW45 might be a little bit hard to handle. But if you do manage to hold it consistently, I would say that it is very accurate (even without the tuning kit). Despite being quite powerful, it is a very high quality, serious airgun if you don’t expect it to be something it isn’t (like a match pistol or self-defense tool).
Stephan
Stephan,
I really like those grips! Please do not send them to me! I will have to buy an HW45 to go in them!
“which I determined with scientific splat and tin can tests”
Stephan,
Thanks for this reminder of my first childhood!
As kids we used these same “scientific” tests to determine who had the most powerful airgun. As you would expect, with kids, that this was important to know 🙂
The wood penetration test was another one though not as good as a splat test.
We also had a (slightly) more sophisticated test where we would stand at the shore of a lake, shoot the pellet (almost) vertically and time how long it took before the pellet splashed down. We considered this test to be the most accurate/consistent.
Haven’t done that “timed test” in years (decades! – LOL!), I just got a new springer so I’ll make a point of doing the test soon and compare results to the chronograph!
Cheers!
Hank
Stephan
May be the best looking pistol grips I have ever seen. Thanks for sharing the pic.
Deck
And this is the best score I ever shot standing at 10 meters. 93/100 – and I did it with the old hand cannon 🙂
The best I shot so far with the FWB LP80 and HW75 is 91…
Not bad really. If I had one of these I would end up getting reid of a couple of other air pistols I have.
Hey RidgeRunner,
I go out of town for a couple of days and you get an accent! “. …end up getting REID…” Sounds South of the Border to me! But then I’m so close to Neeww Yolk Ciddy and Lonnggeye land here in Rye Beach/Scarsdale that I can’t hear your Virginee NO Mow!
Now you cheer me raight cleer!
Stay away from that Tex-Mex food :^)
shootski
Shootski,
LOL! A slip of the finger and I am speaking another language.
What excuse are you offering for being in Cuomo Country? Did you have to get special visas? I hear they only allow mindless sheep into any of the establishments. Is that true?
RidgeRunner,
A bunch of nonprofit folks that don’t know how to have a civilized meeting invite me two or more times a year when they have their membership meetings to be their Parliamentarian. All expenses and a nice fee along with the keys to the town and beach. I took my sea kayak this time and got some fun paddling in on Long Island Sound; almost a Full Corn Moon.
They really don’t understand the value of; A handful of gimme and a mouthful of much obliged!
Somebody has got to do it!
LOL!
shootski
BB
Do you really want to put a new spring in like you mentioned before.
GF1,
I forget whether I already did or not.
BB
BB
From what I remember you said you was going to do all these spring tests with the original spring then put the new spring and see the difference of the results.
My whole reason for asking is that I mentioned before that after you get the gun all smoothed out will you really want to take the spring tune out.
But then again that could be another test for down the road. If you take this spring tune out of the gun will it repeat if you put it back in later on down the line.
GF1,
That’s still the plan. I’ve just added a couple different tests in the middle of all that.
BB
BB
Yep. Good series of reports with this gun.
What I really want to know is why was this gun the chosen one all of a sudden to try the spring tune on.
BB,
I guess it is a good thing that I just ordered a Williams peep sight for my grandson’s HW30S. I need to keep focused on parts and accessories right now. I still need to get a regulator for the Maximus and a left hand breech for the 2240.
RR
Which Williams peep did you order for the HW30S? Hope it fits without digging into the stock.
Deck
I ordered what Hector Medina recommended, the FP-GR model. Since Williams did not have the target knob version in stock (maybe this year) I ordered the FP-GR-TK from a well known airgun company in the SW USA.
I do hope it does not dig into the stock. There are different models. Some are lower than others. We shall see.
RR
Hope you let us know how well it fits and adjusts for elevation. I’m not satisfied with the heavy peep I use on my HW30S. Currently it has a scope but I do like to switch back and forth.
Thanks
Deck
I will let you guys know. What peep are you using now?
Interesting. Yesterday I called the same retailer and they advised me to order the FP-AG-TK, saying it would work on all Weihrauch Springers (that’s sproingers for you). Did Mr. Medina publish that recommendation in a place you can direct us too? (I did search his website and blog just now.) I, too, would like to hear how the FP-GR works out for you. Well, I hope.
He sent it to me in an email with a link. I can see the difference in the photos on the airgun sight. They both are mounted on a Weihrauch. It may be that I am using a different front sight and need the additional height. We will see.
RidgeRunner, I got tired of waiting for the Airforce Peep for my R7, and have just received an Air Venturi rear peep sight to play around with. /product/air-venturi-rear-sight-micrometer-adjustable?a=3191
I like how it extends back so you can make use of the small aperature. And it’s a pretty cheap peep.
RG,
It is cheap, but it works. I would still try to get my hands on an AirForce sight.
Shame that the rear sight on that model 70 only has one notch. Diana & Weihrauch have spoiled us with providing a typical rear sight that has 4 notches.
As long as, it doesn’t contain fiberoptics and can be adjusted for wind and elevation with precision, then all is good for me.
GF1m
This gun wasn’t “chosen” for anything. The fact that it had a canted spring made me cut it the first time and the series just morphed from there. Think Topsy.
BB
BB
Ok. 🙂
It’s been a lot of fun reading this series!
Re: the notes above on the trigger change, I have several Marksman catalogs from these days, and it appears that the “hybrid” BSF/HW rifles like the model 70 were subject to a lot of change. The oldest catalog actually does show it with the simpler “Perfect” trigger, but the next one shows the “Rekord.”
B.B., thanks for the mention. Looking back over the other installments of this series, you are getting very nice results, and are giving us a great seat in the Gallery. Perhaps instead of the Godfather, you should be the Doctor.
Roamin,
Rossi Morreale gave me that nickname. He was introducing his round table on camera and when he got to me he forgot my name, so he stalled by saying, “And here is the Godfather of Airguns, Tom Gaylord.” He just needed an instant to recall my name.
My wife liked the faux pas so much that we trademarked it.
BB
Rossi Morreale is awesome.
I wish he said hi to us here from time to time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUwGcSs5cZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YubhiN3UqMw?t=59
He didn’t say godfather though.
Hey, I would not mind being the Grandson of the Grandfather of Airguns OR the Godson of the Godfather of Airguns! Where do I apply?
Fish,
Not in that particular episode. You have to go back further. I remember it.
Fish,
You picked the wrong episode. I think it was in season 2013.
BB
This is the first round table episode,
2013, in season five of american airg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YubhiN3UqMw?t=59
And
This is the episode eight of 2013,
season 5.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh6XObmeRu8?t=366
Anyhow, change of subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPxnu9NbJik
Fish,
Season one of American Airgunner was 2010. I know because I started the show and co-starred with Paul Capello. Rossi came in season 3 which was 2012 and 2013 was season 4.
BB
My season numbers may be wrong, but the “round table” section of the show that was hosted by Rossi must’ve started in 2013. I don’t remember any round table talks with Morreale aired before that, but my memory might be very well fooling around with me.
Second thought, in the first video I linked, he says, “known as…”
Makes me think that the faux pas you told must’ve happened before that video – and I cannot find it on YT.
I would love to see more round tables in the future with you as a guest and Morreale as the host.
Well, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from this blog, it’s that the Godfather is never wrong.
😉
RG,
Maybe you already are one of his godchildren. He gives all here guidance in the world of airguns.
Amen, Brother!
RR
My reply just disappeared into cyberspace so will try again.
In answer to your question what peep do I use for my HW30S it’s the Avanti that comes with Daisy Avanti 753s 10 meter rifle. Elevation and windage range adjustments are fine. Problem is it wants to walk off the Weihrauch dovetail due to weight and no stop pin. It does well on the pneumatic and looks right too. I can overcome the drifting but it doesn’t look good to my eyes.
Hope you are getting the one (FP-GR-TK vs FP-AG-TK) that goes with front globe on your rifle.
Deck
Deck,
Actually I am changing the front globe also. 😉
https://www.ctcustomairguns.com/hectors-airgun-blog
Look down through the Diana 280 and you will see the front globe I will be trying out.
P.S. I had the same problem with my old FWB peep.
RR
You’re getting a Tru Glo front for your grans HW30S?
Whatever you get I look forward to hearing your opinion of it.
Deck
Deck,
Have it already. Waiting on the Williams right now.
I will let everybody know, believe me. The world knows what I think of glowy thingy sights and here I am getting one. I do like the fact that the light pickup is adjustable.
Wow, I’m having deja vu. I was looking at a similar setup some time ago, but I was unsure about the thickness of the hood on the tru-glo model. It looked like it would cover too much of the field of view. I have coming to me a HW fiber optic front sight from P.A. and it should be coming on Monday or Tuesday. I was thinking of putting that on the R9 in .22 for pesting or hunting, which will be a present for my father-in-law. I will play with the Air Venturi peep until the AirForce rear sight comes in.
Look forward to the report. FM confesses, after the loss of the HW95’s globe sight, even though it was replaced, thought it would be good to order a Tru Glo as a backup. Another blog reader had recommended it for those with tired eyes. Have not mounted/installed it yet.
On a semi-related note, PA advised the pellet order which seemingly had been wiped out due to supply problems was resurrected so there will be more variety for determining what will be the best ammo for this rifle, using the factory globe and the Tru Glo for comparison.
RidgeRunner, my order at P.A. is still open for the AirForce peep sight, but I figure I’ll fool around with the cheaper one in the meantime. Cheers!
RG,
Do fool away. Fall in love with peeps.
For the money, the AirForce peep is the best you can get. I have had some ten meter air rifles and the AirForce peep is as good as any I have looked through. Many do not realize it, but you can change the aperture as it is the “standard” threading. What I am trying to say is you can spend more, but you will not get better.
Yep, that’s the next planned stage in my journey…adjustable aperatures, then transparent front aperature sights. Who knows, perhaps I will end up being a 10 meter competitor. Where’s mmyy cofffeee?m??
LOL! I will be looking for you in the next Olympics!
RG,
Once upon a time I saw a glowy thingy insert for 18mm or 22mm front globe sights. Can they still be had? I do not know.