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Buying used

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by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

History of airguns

This report covers:

  • Background
  • Buy used
  • Airguns
  • But I can’t afford…
  • Let’s talk
  • BB’s lesson in life learned late
  • Dealers sell used, too
  • Summary

Happy New Year!

Before I start I have an update for you. There was a lot of interest in my report on reloading rimfire cartridges, and I was inspired, as well. I have been working behind the scenes to get the next report ready but it involved a lot of different things that each took time to do. There will be a Part Two for that report next week and I have lots of interesting stuff to show you. I wanted to do that report today, but this topic hit me hard this week and I have to get it off my chest!

Background

I had some friends over for the holidays and while we were talking I showed them my metal detector and some of my finds. They were super excited because metal detecting is something they have wanted to do for a long time. So they asked me to name a good detector for them to buy.

Metal detectors are like everything else these days — they have gone from analog to digital. Instead of using your brain to work the detector (analog) you rely on software that was programmed by someone for you (digital). That someone doesn’t know you, doesn’t know where you hunt or what you want to find, so they wrote the program to cover everything from a formal dinner at a 5-star restaurant to eating beans from a can with hobos along the railroad tracks. Pardon me for mixing metaphors, but when my new car won’t start because I haven’t gone through the correct startup sequence of steps and then locks me out altogether — I don’t want it! I want a machine to do what I want it to do — not what a committee thought I should want it to do!

Buy used

So I recommended that my friends buy used. I know metal detectors and can tell when they are okay or not, so I said I would help them buy a nice used detector on eBay. They were thrilled.

The next day they texted me with two machines of the same model I had recommended. Both were priced very low, and when I looked at each of them I could see they were worn out! I recommended passing on both of those. Later that same day I discovered another used detector of the same model only much newer. This one was pristine and was selling for more than twice as much as the other two. My friends thanked me and told me that it was more than they wanted to pay.

This is why I don’t sell cars! I will not sell somebody something that I know they won’t like or be able to use. I could have recommended a new detector to my friends on the first day and they would have bought it, used it twice and stuck it in the back of the closet until their next garage sale! Instead I wanted them to get a detector that had some chance of finding the things I knew they were interested in.

Airguns

It’s the same for airguns. I might not be the guy to ask about a new house or a stock market investment, but I do know something about airguns. So, two days ago when I received a cryptic message from my website that said, “What’s the best gas ram? Is it the Nitro Piston 2 or what?” I recommended buying a Sig ASP20. Why? Because I have tested a lot of breakbarrels with gas springs and I know which one is the best.

But I can’t afford…

I know that not everybody has the money to buy the best. That’s why I recommend buying used. I knew my friends couldn’t afford a new one, or that good new ones may not even be available anymore. But a nice used one will suit them fine.

Stock Up on Shooting Gear

Let’s talk

What happened to all those new “turkey” airguns that BB Pelletier wouldn’t recommend? They became used “turkeys.” I’m not suggesting buying one of them, nor am I suggesting that you pull the trigger on an air rifle I have already tested and found to be fowl, just because Southwest Distressed Airguns is selling them for 50 cents on the dollar!

Instead of breaking open your piggy bank to decide what you can afford, I suggest going at it from the other way around. Here is a set of steps I recommend following.

1. Decide what airgun you want. Here is a short list of guns I think are great.

HW 95/Beeman R9
HW 50
HW 30S
HW 77
HW 80/Beeman R1
Sig ASP20
HW 45/Beeman P1
HW 40/Beeman P3
Diana 34

I could go on and on, and so could you. What is on the “good airgun ” list will vary from person to person — but let’s stay away from the hyper-velocity Buzzalot Breakbarrel, as well as from the Chinese underlever built in Village Number Two.

2. Don’t limit your choices of what is good to a single model. You might pine away for a Diana 27 in .22 caliber and wind up a year from now paying far more than one is worth, just because it was the first one you saw that somebody else didn’t snatch away before you could open your wallet. And, during all the time that transpired you missed getting a Slavia CZ 634, two Slavia 630s, An Air Venturi Bronco, an older HW30s with peep sights and an HW 77. And one of them might have satisfied you, if they were on your long list, but tunnel vision made you hold out for that elusive Diana 27.

3. Be prepared to do some work. Older airguns may not be in perfectly tip-top condition. I hope this blog has revealed that to you. I also hope you have seen that most of these older guns still have the parts available in some way so they can be rebuilt. 

Maybe you have decided that Diana ball bearing triggers are beyond your capability and maybe you also don’t want to buy or build a mainspring compressor. So, factor that into your search! In other words, try to buy a used gun that’s ready to go right now. Or, try to find one that is more easily overhauled. Weihrauch spring guns are generally easy to work on. BSAs are more complex.

4. Try to have the money set aside, so when the buy of a lifetime comes along, you’re ready! Several years ago blog reader Carel contacted me when I made a comment about wanting to someday detune a Diana 35 to make a nicer rifle out of it. He had a very nice older one he was willing to part with. And after a short email conversation I learned that he also had a Diana 26 and something called a Diana 27S. I bought the lot of them at a very reasonable price and he shipped them — FROM THE NETHERLANDS!!!

Today the Diana 35 that I tuned is the nicest, most accurate vintage Diana I own! And I can sell the other two rare (in the US) Diana models at the next airgun show, if I want. With luck I will come close to breaking even and still have my nice old 35. That is an illustration of saving my money until the right deal presented itself, and also that dealing with an honest person like Carel is as low-risk as buying something from a best friend. I can name others, like Mr. Marvin, from whom I have bought several vintage airguns. And he is from Canada. The world is a small place when you shop online!

Here is what I have learned. When you take the time to set the money aside, the buys will come to you. Of course that doesn’t mean that you should lower your guard, but that’s always going to be true.

BB’s lesson in life learned late

When I recently learned that rimfire cartridges could be reloaded, a whole new universe opened up! For years I have passed by beautiful firearms because they were chambered for rimfire cartridges — and YOU CAN’T RELOAD RIMFIRE! Or so I thought for 73 years and a few months. Now I know different. Not only can rimfire cartridges be reloaded, but old BB Pelletier is one of those smart buyers who recognizes a great deal when he sees one. 

Besides what I tell you about reloading .22 rimfire cartridges I will be expanding the report to include reloading .41 rimfire and also .32 rimfire. We will look at several alternative methods of achieving the same goal. I already told you that this report will be a long one. Now it’s going to be super-long. Don’t worry — I will stretch it way out, so if it isn’t your cup of tea you shouldn’t be bothered. I see a possible book in this.

At any rate, when BB learned that rimfires can be reloaded a world of fine and vastly under-appreciated firearms came into focus. Can the same thing happen for you as the result of today’s report?

Dealers sell used, too

Don’t forget to watch the dealers. And I mean all of them — not just Pyramyd AIR — though their volume does generate a lot of used inventory. When you deal with a dealer “used” may take on a different meaning. It might even be an airgun that someone bought before coordinating with his resident Chancellor of the Exchequer. That happens a lot! It probably means a squabble for him but what it could mean to you is a discount on a gun that’s really never been out of the box! I am currently looking at a RAW in .22 caliber that was returned as a “blem.” Well, my eyes cannot find the blemish. Perhaps the problem was in the buyer’s bank account and not on the gun at all!

Dealers also have older used airguns. I remember buying a rusty old FWB 124 Sport from a dealers for $35 and tuning it up to be a solid performer. It may not have looked good but the FWB pedigree sure showed through when it was shot. You might think that dealer was naive but his main business was selling new airguns and fixing pneumatics and CO2 guns. A breakbarrel springer just wasn’t in his wheelhouse.

Summary

This report is not finished. Today I talked about spring guns in general and breakbarrels in particular. There are other powerplants we can discuss.

I know this topic tugs at your heartstrings, so please enlighten the rest of us with what you have learned.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
See Full Bio

160 thoughts on “Buying used”

  2. BB,

    A good article. The biggest thing I have learned is to have that money back and ready to go when the opportunity arises,.. as you said. That could be a new air air gun,… but it could also be a new hot water heater that just took a crap. It could be a yard sale,… or it could be someone that has fallen on hard times and is cleaning out his garage of stuff to sell. That money back for my next airgun just got spent on a new-in-box generator.

    I have not bought much in the way of used airguns other than an LGU I bought from Gunfun1. I am not sure I would trust myself to not get taken in some cases,… but you have gave us much help right here on the topic. I knew GF1 from here, knew that he knew his stuff and that he was only 2 states away,…. so I could hunt him down if I had to! 😉 LOL!

    I have bought many things used over the years and later found myself with a whole lot of “good deals” that just took up room and that I never used. Years later,.. I find myself paring back and only buying what I really need or really want. Back to point one,…. have that money at the ready or neither way works.

    At any rate,… those are a few of my thoughts on “buying used” and how I apply it to me.

    Chris

      • RR,

        It did say that it will get 142 shots at the 19 ft/ # setting and a (whopping 344 shots) at the 12 ft. # setting. As you know, switching between the two is as easy as pressing a button on the digital screen. That is from a 300 cc straight tube. Bar? Not sure. Mine is 250 bar, (3625 psi).

        Chris

      • GF1,

        🙂 When we gonna’ see some pics and such of that new big bore beast you have and all of the stuff you are blowing up with it? I see you are already up to shooting slugs with it from some of your recent comments.

        Chris

        • Chris
          Been shooting a bunch of feral cans with the #8 shot shells and been loading some of the .177 copper coated lead Smart Shot bb’s in the empty shot shells I got. It holds about 18 of those lead bb’s in one shell. Let’s just say this at 25 yards with the shot shells a critter is not walking away. And oh my gosh the 210 grain Blondeaus slugs are bad a**. I have only shot a few of those at 50 yards and it drilled a perfect 1/2″ hole through two 2×4’s. I was just aiming with the front bead site. I’m waiting for the dove tail adapter that goes on the top of the reciever to get in stock. Then I’m going to mount a scope and try the slugs out more. Don’t want to take a chance at missing my back stop and trap with those slugs. Mostly I will shotgun shoot it with the shot shells so the scope will come off. I want to get a picatinny adapter for the dovetail so I can use quick detach scope rings. I probably will very seldom use the Blondeau slugs. But I wanted to know what they would do.

          As far as pictures of the cans I was using 12 oz beer cans so I didn’t really want to post pictures of them on the blog. And in reality I can’t stop shooting the SAM. I love that gun. If they would of came out about 5 or so years ago I wouldn’t of wasted my money on the FX Monsoons and Hatsan semi autos I had. The SAM is just so simple to shoot. No tuning6for peller weight like the others to get them to cycle right. You just shoot whatever pellet you want and at whatever velocity and the SAM functions. Its a totally reliable semi auto.

          Heck if the SAM would of been around 10 or so years ago I wouldn’t of need to get the Discoverys and regular Marauders or the Maximus’ I have.

          Let’s put it this way. I think very highly of the SAM and the Wingshot ll. Should of had them long ago. 🙂

          • GF1,

            Well good for you on finally getting one! I think you have been talking about it ever since I have been here at the blog. Maybe when summer rolls around you can show us some milk jugs and 2×4’s getting blown up on one of your short videos like you have done in the past. Yes, I can see where the slugs would get expensive pretty quick.

            Chris

            • Chris
              I’ll have to have my daughter take a video.

              I got to get a better back stop built if I keep shooting the Blondeaus. Making alot of power. It almost knocked my .22 rimfire steel target stop over after going through the 2×4’s at 50 yards. The Wingshot ll shooting the Blondeaus is no joke.

              I’m going to make a stop out of some railroad ties this spring. Then I’ll do more slug shooting. For now it will be shotgun shooting the Wingshot ll with the shot shells.

          • GF1,

            I do not know if you have used these previously, but I really, really like them.

            /product/utg-11mm-3-8-dovetail-to-weaver-adapter-2pcs?a=4148

            They also do not raise the height of your scope.

            • RR
              I have them on my 54 Air King and used them on other guns also. I like them.

              But I want to use something like this. That way I will leave the adapter on the gun. Hopefully its low enough profile that I can see the front bead sight on the Wingshot if I leave it on the gun and take the scope off so the gun can be used as a shotgun.
              /product/hawke-sport-optics-2-pc-adapter-3-8-to-weaver-rail?a=4162

              I want to get these kind of quick detach rings for the scope. That way the scope can be taken off and put back on the same position on in the gun. And hopefully the scope will stay sighted close enough.
              /product/utg-1-max-strength-quick-detach-rings-low-weaver-picatinny?a=3494

  3. BB,

    Other than getting beat up a bit,… what can get “worn out” on a metal detector? Given the environment when out metal detecting, I could understand some dirt, scrapes and nicks,… maybe it needs a new rechargeable battery,.. or something else. So,.. what is worn out?

    Chris

  4. Happy New Year! Glad that one is over. Hope every ones year 2021 is better than the one we just went through. I look forward to every blog.. Not just airguns. From mini crossbows to reloading rimfires to metal detectors to straight razors. Thank you for all the knowledge you pass on to the rest of us. Again, Happy New Year to all!!

  5. B.B.,

    Often the only way to obtain what you want is used. It might not be the cutting edge but you instead focus on reliability. And as Chris always says: “Research! Research! Research!”

    Siraniko

    PS Section BB’s lesson in life learned late Third paragraph First sentence: “At any rate, when BB learned that rimfires can be reloaded a world a (of) fine and vastly under-appreciated firearms came into focus.”

  6. As many know, here at RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns, I specialize in used airguns. My very first airgun I bought used. Quite a few of my airguns are older than anybody reading this blog.

    I do have a few airguns I bought new. Not many. I may drool over the latest and greatest Hypersonic Feral Soda Can Blaster, but before I spend those hard earned bucks I will ask myself “What am I going to do with this airgun?” More often than not, I already have an airgun that fits that spot.

    If I should decide that I really must have that Hypersonic Feral Soda Can Blaster, The next step is to clear it with the Chief Financial Officer or as BB so aptly put it the Resident Chancellor of the Exchequer. If there is going to be an argument, I would prefer it to be before rather than after the fact. Sometimes she will even buy one for me. Ask BB.

    Do not be afraid of used. Sometimes you can get an awesome deal. If there is anything to watch out for, it is the sellers.

    • RR,

      A fellow on another site said that scams are everywhere these days and to be ever vigilant. He then went on to say that he had ordered a bunch of expensive items for his wife and that 2 weeks later a new gun and a bunch of ammo showed up instead! 🙂 LOL!

      Hey,… it might work? 😉 Or not,……. 🙁

      Chris

    • RR,

      Speaking of used, I was sitting on the back porch steps shooting a 101 last night and started wondering if you ever got that seal problem taken care of on yours? Is the old girl huffing and puffing again? If she is run a few AA 16 grainers through her I think you will be highly pleased. That’s with brass tubes, I don’t know about steel as the only Crosman I have with a steel barrel is a PROD and it likes Crosman fodder.

      Happy New Years to everyone!

      BobF

      • BobF,

        She is not up to full snuff yet. Mrs. RR has kept me pretty busy around here lately. 😉

        I have been thinking about that 101 a good bit myself lately. She will hold about three pumps before the seal bleeds off. It is really quite impressive at that level. I know where my round tuit is. I just might have to pull it out.

        • RR,

          Stop procrastinating and get that round tuit cranked up!

          Heck, I never put more than 04 pumps in any of my old girls anyway. One pump per 10 yds. seems to work out well for me. You have more than enough umph to play ” 20 at 20 “. What’s that you ask, well it’s 20ga. shotgun hulls at 20yds. with 02 pumps. As Shootski would say, it really makes you concentrate on that front sight blade! On a good day you’ll run 07 or 08 out of 10. But every once in a while ” if the sun is just right ” all ten of those little suckers will go flying down over the bank. Now thats proper sight alignment, breathing, and trigger control at its finest! Sorry, I got a little carried away there.

          Quit fooling around and just get a reseal kit for it. The tool you need to disassemble the valve can easily be made with a 06in. piece of an old 22 barrel, hacksaw, and a flat file. The deluxe version has a hole drilled through it so a phillips head screwdriver can be used as a handle.

          Good luck with that round tuit!

          BobF

          • BobF,

            I know exactly which seal is giving me the “problem”. It is the seal between the plenum and the valve face. It has a funky size o ring, but I am just going to make one. Keep your shirt on and keep shooting. I’ll catch up.

            • RR,

              Pardon the pun, but now that you have a new toy to play with I’m not going to hold my breath on completion of your 101 round tuit task. I probably would get pretty blue in the face! Believe me, I completely understand.

              Have fun with that Maximus!

              BobF

              • BobF,

                I do not know about that. I plan on taking it real nice and slow with that Maximus. I really do want that 101 up and running. It is not having a new toy to interfere. It is having the time for any of them. I have not had much time for my toys over the last few months. When I am not working making money, I am spending it on materials to work around the house.

                • RR,

                  AHHH, the vicissitudes of home ownership / the wintertime honey-do list. Most of us know it all to well!

                  Hey I was just digging through my 101 parts drawer and I think I have the one of the seals you need? Clarify for me— is it the exhaust valve stem seal or the exhaust body gskt. ? Have a check valve seal. an exhaust valve stem seal but can’t seem to find an exhaust body gskt at present. As I have a severe case of OCD all of my 101’s and 107’s have been resealed over the last two years which means these things would probably be rock hard by the time I need them again. If you want them just shoot me an address and I’ll send them your way.

                  Merry Christmas

                  BobF

                  • BobF,

                    I appreciate the thoughtful consideration, but that will be unnecessary.

                    This is the o ring where the large open end of the plenum contacts the face of the valve. There is a recessed groove in the face of the valve for it. It is not a “standard” size found in most industrial kits. I cut down an o ring and glued it together with super glue, but I think it is still not quite right.

                    I am going to take it apart and try a different type of seal I have been thinking of. If this does not work, I have another seal giving me a high pressure leak. I will just have to break down and buy me a reseal kit and replace them all.

                    I will learn a little bit more about these wonderful old multi-pumps. It would be nice if someone was to build a multi-pump of this quality again. As far as I know, the Dragonfly is as close as any comes today.

                    • RR,

                      If it’s the seal on the valve shaft it isn’t an o-ring. It’s actually a small flat washer made out of some kind of urethane like material. It’s been over a year since doing the last one, but if memory serves me correctly the long section of the shaft actually unscrews from the cup which holds the seal. Same thing goes for the check valve seal. It’s made from the same material only in a smaller diameter. If it’s an older gun that has the solid cone shaped valve seal you are in for a learning experience, trust me I know!

                      Got to go,I’m replacing worn out roofs on bluebird boxes this afternoon.

                      My offer still stands!

                      BobF

  7. This lost soul in Airgun Paradise appreciates all the nuggets of knowledge gleaned from your blog, B.B.; the posts are like college lectures for FM. You keep bringing up the ASP 20; that’s good enough to seal the deal, no pun intended. But have to keep holding off – other hobbies and priorities take a toll on resources. Having said that, can’t complain about my CEO. She pretty much lets me have my way with acquisitions, within reason. It helps to have a part-time job to supplement the pension and make the necessary arguments.

    One New Year’s resolution being implemented as FM writes this is to pack up and ship the old Crosman 38T .22 to Precision Pellet for resealing and rebuilding. Some may think that’s silly, but it is a nice shooter and there is a nostalgia aspect at play as well. Happy and SAFE 2021 to all!

  8. Well I bought 2 FWB 300’s from RidgeRunner. Was very happy with them. He even gave me some extra stocks and other things and a good price. Thanks again RR. Probably the biggest reason I got them from him was from knowing him on the blog and what he is like with air guns.

    And I have bought several used guns from a dealer that also sales new air guns. The only reason I do that is because they have backed what they had the guns described like. At first I would call and talk to them about the gun. But now after buying several from them when I see it I jump on it if its something I want. I always watch thier website.

    I have got a lot of good deals on used guns. For me it all comes down to trust.

    Happy New Year everyone.

  9. B.B.,

    Your anecdote to illustrate your point reminded me of a problem I have enountered many times over the years. It runs parallel to your advice-giving to folks who ask you which air gun (or metal detector) to buy.

    I am with guitars as you are with air guns. Therefore, I have had friends and acquaintances ask me for advice when it comes to buying their 13-year-old, or perhaps themselves, a first guitar. I always have first said, “Used, Absiolutely, not new” and explained why. Then I would go through a process of asking a few questions (e.g. “What music do you hope to play?”) and then giving them a few very good choices.

    The problem is that over the years only one person, just one out of dozens and dozens, followed my advice at all. People wouild invariably buy new and get a guitar wholly inappropriate for their purpose, the exact opposite of what I recommended. I eventually started to take it as an insult, that they doubted my, frankly expert, recommendations.

    For perhaps five years or so, whenever a friend or acquaintance asks me for advice in guitar-buying, I have said, “I have no idea.”

    Does this frequently happen to you with air guns? I have suspected it might be a trait only common among those who want to buy a guitar. :^)

    Michael

  10. BB
    I almost ordered the .22 rimfire reloading kit the other day but didn’t. The only reason I haven’t was because I don’t have any gun powder. I got the rimfire cases and the lead but I need to get the powder first. Then I’ll get the kit.

    Do you know what a good powder would be to use. And where to get it. If you haven’t put than in the report yet can you.

    • Gunfun1,

      From http://aardvarkreloading.com/resources/homemadeprimercourse.pdf

      Primers made from strike-anywhere matches
      This method is easy, relatively safe and unlikely to get you on a federal watch list. In fact, this is the method that the military teaches its troops for making improvised ammunition. The resulting primers are more energetic than cap primers, but still significantly less than commercial primers. The main problem with this method is finding good strike anywhere matches. The only part of the match that is used to make the primer is the white tip which seems to have shrunk in recent years. The only ones readily available are from Diamond which are green with a small white tip. It takes 3-4 matches to make a single SP primer. Here are the steps for making cap primers: Materials needed: a) Strike anywhere matches, b) razor blade or sharp knife, c) hammer (optional), d) bamboo skewer (optional),
      1. Working on a non-porous surface, carefully cut off the white tips of 3-4 matches using a razor blade or sharp knife. For safety and because it is so easy to set this compound off, only process enough matches at a time to make one primer. Only the white part is wanted, so be careful to only remove this part of the match.
      2. Using the flat face of a hammer and a rolling motion, carefully crush the white compound into a fine powder. Alternatively, use the razor blade to chop the white tips into a powder.
      3. Fill a primer cup with the loose white powder and pack the powder tightly using the end of one of the match sticks or a bamboo skewer. Add more powder and repack until the cup is 1/2 to 5/8 full of packed powder.
      4. Finally, place a saved anvil over the cup and carefully/slowly push it into place using the side of your needle nose pliers. As with the cap primers, lightly moistening the match powder with 90% isopropyl alcohol will help avoid accidental ignition while pressing in the anvil. After the alcohol and water evaporates (at least several hours or leave overnight to be sure they are dry) the match primers become sensitive again and will work like normal.
      5. Save your completed primers in an empty primer box, or use them as normal in making ammunition. When made correctly these primers have excellent reliability. The main disadvantage is the slow preparation technique. It can easily take 5-10 minutes to prepare a single primer.
      6. The cost of making match primers is low ($0.015/primer) compared to commercial primers ($0.04/primer), or about a 2:1 cost advantage.

      From https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2020/04/06/reloading-22lr/

      The instruction kit from 22reloader.com tells us that 5 matchstick heads should be sufficient to push a 25-grain solid point bullet at about 547 FPS from a 16-1/2″ barrel. Obviously using commonly available reloading powders is going to yield higher muzzle velocities and a more consistent burn but for the sake of this exercise, I chose to use the matchstick heads.

      I crushed up various types of matchstick heads and ultimately went with the green type as it took the least amount of effort to get a decent amount. Surprisingly 5 matchstick heads look to be about the same volume of powder as the regular propellant charge in a standard velocity 22LR cartridge.

      Siraniko

      • Siraniko
        I seen in a article that was written about the .22 reloading kit and the guy talked about cap gun caps and matches to make the primer.

        I thought that was only to make the primer that went into the rim of the cartridge.

        So you say the white part of the match should be used to make the primer that goes in the rim.

        Then the colored part of the match can be used to make the actual gun powder that goes in the case.

        Is that right?

        • Gunfun1,

          I’m just quoting from the articles. I don’t know how many match heads will be needed to fill a rimfire because the original article was for refilling primers. But, yes, the second article did state that he used the colored part of the matches as a substitute for the powder charge. When he fired the gun naturally there was more fouling and the scent of matches filled the air.

          Siraniko

          • Siraniko
            Ok thanks.

            I’m going to go ahead and order the .22 rimfire kit.

            I will try the matches and see what happens as gun powder and use what comes in the kit to make the primers. And besides I like the smell of matches when you strike them. 🙂

  11. I’m a big fan of buying used airguns.

    Placing a WTB (Want To Buy) ad on multiple airgun sites has helped me find some great deals. Gunbroker and airgun shows are also good resources.

    One thing that is often overlooked in buying airguns used is the Cost Of Ownership. Not unlike cars an airgun loses most of its value once it arrives on your doorstep. A quality used airgun bought right will cost nothing to own because when you decide to sell it or trade it all of your equity still exists. This isn’t usually true with airguns bought new.

    This is especially important to those of us that evolve in this hobby over time and want to explore other airguns. Knowing where to sell your used airguns and how to pack and ship them is another important installment.

  12. Well we didn’t get a white Christmas but got a nice little ice storm last night and this morning. Got about a 1/8th inch of ice on everything. Still drizzling but the temprature is coming up a little. Probably will start melting after noon. Maybe.

    Now when I’m shooting I can see a little explosion when the pellet hits. Good for some long distance shooting to check the hold overs. And we have only had a few dustings of snow so far. Hardly enven covered the grass. I hope we aren’t in a freezing rain pattern this winter. Definitely don’t care for having to drive in the ice. Although we do have mountain rated tires on both cars that are suppose to be for mud, snow, ice and rain. They do work in everything pretty good other than haven’t tryed them in ice yet.

    • GF1,

      I had 8″ easy on the yard and 10″ on the car on Christmas. I know because I went down to see Mom and Dad on Christmas day. 1 1/4 hour south and they had 2-3″. We have ice today and 32F now which will soon be rain. The Rav 4 with snow and ice tires work great. All wheel drive too with 4wd option up to 25 mph. I have had some (supposedly) mud/snow/ice/rain tires in the past and got stuck in wet grass and packed snow (with other vehicles). The ones that work good in (ice) and snow are softer and have more sipeing/fine cuts. Not very aggressive looking at all. You can not (should not) run them year around because of the softer rubber compound though.

      Chris

      • Chris
        I got the Preza 101 ice tires. They aren’t as hard as regular tires but they aren’t soft either. They are inbetween. Had them on the car for 3 years now and I bet still 75% on the tread. And put them onthe Mustang last year when we got it in January. They look like they are brand new still after being on for a year. I do rotate them all the time so I think that helps a little.

  13. Happy New Year, all. I am also into metal detecting. My detector of choice is the Garrett line and my first one, the bottom of the line ACE, has returned some neat finds. NJ was tough to hunt as it seems the entire state has iron ore in the ground so one had to learn to desensitize and discriminate to avoid iron. Once I went to a National Park (Gateway) to use on the beach. It was a target rich environment until the National Park Service guard rolled up in his jeep and told me I could put the detector away or be arrested. Even on a ocean front beach, no detecting allowed in the National Park. Sheesh!

    Georgia doesn’t have the iron ore problem. My best find? A $400 Lincoln intelligent key fob that a friend of the family lost while gardening. Found it 6 inches deep in a mulch pile.

    Fred formerly of the Democratik Peeples Republik of NJ now happily in GA

  14. Well don’t know about you all. I just got a surprise today.

    I was checking my bank account and me and my wife just got our $1200 stimulus check today.

    More happy now about starting out the new year. 🙂

    PS: RidgeRunner will you please get that .22 Maximus I told you about if you got your check.

    • Gunfun1,

      HAPPY NEW YEAR!
      So $600 to the wife, you split yours in thirds, one part to the household, one part to savings, and $200 to buy more ammo or shotshells! ;^)

      shootski

    • GF1,

      I looked at it New Year’s Eve, but did not immediately buy one. On New Year’s Day the price went down some more. They should be shipping one to me today. 🙂 Thanks!

      • RR,

        Well good for you! I am anxious to see what you are going to do with it as you talked about it being a good modding platform. I might get some ideas. I did do the Huma reg. to if you recall. Did you get the “Hunter” model with the 1/2-20 cap?

        The trigger mods is super easy and would be the first thing I would do if you do nothing else to it.

        Chris ( I will be till afternoon if you reply)

        • Chris,

          Mine is the “straight” model with the glowy thingy sights, which of course have to go. I am certain one of my Bug Busters will end up on top of it.

          The first mod will likely be the butt pad and fill the hollow stock with foam. Reduce slippage and vibration noise. I will play with this trigger for a little bit, but I am pretty certain that will be the next mod. I may replace the sear after that, depending on how nice it is. Next will be a hammer spring adjuster and I may change the transfer port out. At some point I am certain I will want to quiet it down some. I may make it into a carbine.

          I have a feeling this platform is going to be a fun one to tinker with for quite a few years.

          • RR,

            First thing I would do is order two Maximus barrels from Crosman, while they are still selling them. Make sure one of the barrels is the hunter version.

            That way you can mod away without fear of messing up the barrel.

            Don

              • RR,

                The first Maximus barrels I bought were fantastic. The last two looked like their machines needed a tune up. I had to work on both the leade and crown on them.

                It will be fun to hear your comparison of the two barrels. Push a JSB 15.89 gr pellet through the Maximus barrel and you will know real quick if the crown has the common ridge at the end of the rifling. I know you know all this. I’m just saying the Maximus barrel is worth some TLC if it needs it.

                Don

                • Don,

                  Oh yeah. It is my intention to take it REAL slow on any mods. I have been looking at this air rifle since the first Discovery hit the market. There are over 147 mods for this thing and I intend to be very careful with each step I take.

                  My first step will be to get the optimum from it as it is.

                  • RR,

                    147!!! Really? You have (a) link that covers the majority of them?

                    Be careful,… you could end up like the guys that have $500.00 wrapped in a 2240 pistol! 😉

                    Chris

                    I will say,.. if you know of 147 mods.,… you have been doing your homework for a very long time!

                    • Chris,

                      LOL! That may be a little bit of an exaggeration, but I have been looking at this since the first Discovery came out.

                      As far as cost goes, who cares?

                • Don
                  When did you buy your last 2 Maximus barrels?

                  I bought a .177 Maximus back in October. It is just as accurate as my .22 Maximus I bought some time back when Crosman started using the new barrel making process.

                  And to note they are very accurate.

                  What date did you buy those 2 Maximus barrels anyway just out of curiosity? I’m sure you got a receipt somewhere don’t you.

                  • GF1,

                    My last order for 2 barrels was in May 2018. The previous barrels were mid 2017 and earlier. There were some issues with that particular order. I don’t remember the particulars but Crosman took care of it.

                    On the order I only received one barrel and it was hanging out of the shipping box and bent. They sent the 2nd barrel a couple weeks later. I was suspicious that these two barrels may have been from the bottom of the barrel/end of a run. Once I straightened, cleaned up and polished the leade and crown the barrels were accurate even though there were visible machine chatter in the rifling groves.

                    Don

                    • Don
                      So above you said the first order the barrels were ok.

                      The second order was a shipping problem but that barrel shot ok. After recrowning and straightening.

                      Why did you recrown that barrel? Because you saw chattering in the rifling.

                      Too many things going on to pin point why you thought that second round of barrel wasn’t ok.

                      Did you contact Crosman and did they send you another barrel after the bent one in shipping? Did you contact the shipper and let them know what happened.?

                  • No room below, guess I was not clear. I have ordered quite a few Maximus barrels. All of them were good except the last two I ordered. My comment was all about the last order of two barrels. There was only one barrel in the first shipment on that order, they shipped the second barrel a couple weeks later that was the same order. Two separate shipments same order, my last order. The barrel in the first shipment was bent enough to notice. First thing I did was straighten it. I usually do that with a new Crosman barrel. Then I put it in a gun and tested it. It did not perform like I expected so I pushed a pellet through it and felt a ridge at the crown. That is common on many cheaper barrels. So I ground off the ridge and polished the leade and crown. It eventually started shooting as I expected. The second barrel, same order, later shipment was fairly straight but also had the same ridge at the crown. They both performed after some work.

                    All of the other Maximus barrels I have ordered were good to go with no work. Good to know your newer Maximus barrel is good, and they have not slacked off on the quality. I think that one last order may have been when Crosman was having a shortage on Maximus barrels and shipped some with poor quality control but I don’t know what happened.

                    Don

          • RR,

            The medium? (double check dimensions) Limb Saver slip on pad fits great and adds 1″ LOP. I would 100% go with that. As for butt fill,… I have seen everything tried on forums. Silicone, beads, nut shells, foam, etc.. Some weight might? make it feel better. I will be following along with anything you do as I might try some. Mine is still stock with the exception of the trigger mod..

            Chris

            • Chris,

              Did you give yours an extra plenum size when you added the Huma regulator? It is my intention to add a spacer to give a little more regulated volume. You might consider an adjustable striker spring assembly. There is a company in the SW USA that has them. It would make your Maximus so much more tunable.

              • RR,

                To be honest, I am not sure now. The gauge reads regulated air pressure. I had the reg. in and out about 4x I think. I do remember some options now,.. but do not remember what they were. I am thinking that no gauge was one option.

                Maybe you could tell something from that and jog my rememberer? Heck, since you know 147 things,… something ought to jog it! 😉

                Chris

              • RR
                I did add the extra plenum. It does keep the regulated pressure more consistent to the guns valve.

                Tune it right and you can get over 50 shots per fill with the Huma regulator.

                And that was with my .22 Maximus. I bet my .177 Maximus would even get more usable shots with a Huma regulator than the .22 Maximus did.

              • RR,

                As I recall, I did the same thing GF1 did. I do remember having to line up the gauge hole with a piece. I think it was the choice of leaving out an O-ring or not. Adding the reg. is well worth it my opinion. (I most likely have paperwork and notes on it.)

                Chris

                • I am certain that will end up being one of the mods I go for. Combined with a larger transfer port and an adjustable striker spring should make for a hot little shooter that I can tune in pretty tight.

          • RR
            That’s a long time.

            And my .22 Maximus really liked the JSB 15.89 grain pellets and the AirArms 16 grain pellets. Just incase you don’t have any of those pellets already.

            • GF1,

              I have the JSB’s. I also have a good selection of H&N’s. I even have a tin of Premier Hollow Point’s. It is going to spend a lot of time on my new shooting bench.

              • RR
                I was going to ask what scope your going to put on it but I see you answered that above.

                And if your thinking about making it a carbine like you said above. If that means cutting and recrowning the barrel. I wouldn’t do it. Once you see how accurate they are you won’t want to take the chance of messing it up possibly. Plus if you shorten the barrel and put one of those muzzle things on the end it makes it a bit tighter to fill the gun and that also puts the muzzle thing over the air tube.

                Also just a quick trick if you haven’t took the front sight off of one of these Benjamin/Crosman type guns. Just grab the sight and twist slightly back and forth while pulling it off. They come off real easy if you do it that way.

  15. B.B.,

    In Let’s Talk, second sentence: “…pull the trigger on an air rifle I have already tested and found to be fowl(foul), just because Southwest Distressed Airguns…”
    As all us Sailors know: A fouled or tangled anchor is useless and cannot be employed meaning a ship cannot dock and so is in distress. It is the sailor’s duty to unfoul the anchor whether it be his own ship or his entire service…
    So was the airgun all fouled up that you were speaking of not pulling the trigger on or was it a fowling (as in the fowl of the air) airgun?

    shootski

      • B.B.,

        I was messing with you and Gunfun1…trying for a twofer. It reminded me when the Training Wing Commander in Pensacola forbade our calling Student Naval Aviators Turkeys…so they came to be called Tur’Lepers when an instructor in Debrief almost used the banned term, at high volume, in mid word caught himself and invented the new derogatory title…totally UN PC! I believe Turkey made a comeback soon after the TraWing Change of Command.

        shootski

            • Shootski
              Ok I understand the fowl shooting with the Wingshot ll.

              But didn’t relate to your comment that way at first.

              You know it can all be referred to in many ways once you start thinking about it. Just say’n. 🙂

              • Gunfun1,

                Yea! It is one of the things I dislike about Social Media. It is so hard to be sure you are clear and that you understand what other folks are meaning with what they write…but I’m learnin’ slow but sure to try harder and be like a duck when somebody writes something to me. It is so much easier to do the talking in person; even ZOOM doesn’t preclude misunderstandings.
                I didn’t get that this place is SO different (almost all the time than the other forums and Social Media) when I first found this Blog of B.B.’s I thought it was just like the rest. I was wrong and I think of you all as my friends. Folks that doesn’t happen much anymore these days.

                Let’s all do our best to make sure it stays that way!

                Thanks Gunfun1,

                shootski

  16. OK everybody, I am going to switch gears for a little bit. This is about a new air rifle.

    GunFun1 told me about a deal on the .22 Benjamin Maximus, which I have been wanting to get for some time. Midway USA had them for $155 when I looked New Year’s Eve. When I looked New Year’s Day, they had dropped the price to $145. With shipping and taxes it came to around $167. One will be shipped out to me today.

    I would have told you guys sooner, but I wanted to make sure I get one before they sell out. 😉

    • RR
      They didn’t have the free shipping over $49 anymore when you ordered?

      And that’s who I got my Wingshot ll from. PA was out of stock on the Wingshot ll and Midway had some kind of discount and free shipping when I got the Wingshot ll. I couldn’t pass it up.

  17. OK, let’s switch gears again. Back to buying used. I happen to have a project air rifle that I am seriously considering selling. Well, actually it is a couple of plastic bags full of parts that need to be put back together. What it is, is a very old Talon SS. How old is it? The frame does not have the side barrel bushing lock screws.

    When I got it, there was a 24 inch Weihrauch barrel with silencer on it. I sold the barrel and bought my 1906 BSA with the money. I have since purchased an 18 inch .25 LW barrel with ventilated bushings for it. I think I may even have a 12 inch .22 Evanix barrel with bushings for it.

    Now, for the bad news. The frame has some serious cosmetic issues on the scope rail. This does not affect usage, but it ain’t pretty. The tank has a date of 2007. Since I was planning on putting either a 13 CI or 22 CI tank on, I did not care. I have used it some anyway. I am still here.

    One other thing is it has an old high flow valve. I contacted AirForce and ordered the parts to change it over to a newer model high flow valve.

    It is just sitting here waiting for me to pull out my round tuit and put it back together. If I do that though, I do not think this is going anywhere in a hurry.

    I thought I would offer it up to one of you folks before I found my round tuit or decided to put it on the open market. Let me know.

  19. Happy New Year everyone.
    Weihrauch people must feel very proud. Seven out of nine being their products in B.B.’s short list. Even if the HW77 is not a break barrel we could always put the HW90 into its place as a strong competitor to the ASP20.

  20. OK folks!

    My new Maximus is on the way. My Talon SS is also sold.

    You are not going to find a better deal on a Maximus, ever. I would not be surprised if in the not too distant future the Maximus will go the way of the Discovery. It will depend on whether they figure out how to build the Fortitude right.

  22. Hello!
    I am currently bidding on a USED Challenger Plainsman .22 pump upper. No idea of condition. Pretty excited but I am sure the bidding will go bonkers in the last few seconds. So I am savoring what little time I have before my fantasy of doing it up is dashed to smithereens. : – ) but you never know I just might squeak in. Gosh I am wondering, if I do get it, what kind of seals I might need, can I make a new probe with an actual seal, will the wood work glow after a recondition… etc. Then, will it be a good plinker ? The anticipation! 21 hours to go…. I will probably start pacing in my sleep.
    https://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/air-guns-parts/air-guns/rifles/listing-2918711090.htm?rsqid=af1e3238dfda41208c668f8bacd321f5-004
    Two things: so far it’s in my budget, and secondly it’s such a classic design. thirdly it has an odd ball history. mmm..
    Wish me luck !
    Robert.

      • BB and RR.
        No dice! The bidding started so I bowed out. Someone will get a deal but I am not financial enough to escalate things to simply ” must have it “. I have seen things on this auction site. “Auto bidding” wars, last millisecond bids etc. Still have my cash but. Hope it goes to a good home! Darn! Something will come up again that wants to be shot again and not just added to the collection!
        – Robert. PS I am not even going to look at how much it went for. Will probably buy new/used tires for the car instead. Do I need another air rifle ???? Just don’t look back!

  23. B.B., Gunfun1, and Readership,

    I was out paddling my kayak this morning contemplating tuning 72 when from the back of my mind (after reading Gunfun1’s post about rimfire powder) i remembered that American Rifleman had a great article about manufacturing the rimfire .22cal ammo a few years ago:

    https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/8/16/what-you-should-know-about-22-rimfire/

    I think most all of you will find it interesting at a minimum.

    shootski

    • Shootski,

      Most interesting. The profit margin must be pretty low to keep the price affordable. Over the years I have disassembled .22 rimfire on occasion. Most often, a flake powder is used.

        • GF1,

          I do not know. I have never used such before. They may work fairly good as propellent as I had heard of such when I was into model rocketry. There have been times when people have filled CO2 cartridges with matchheads to make rocket engines. The problem with that is sometimes you end up with a hand grenade instead of a rocket engine.

          Due to the small quantity you are using, it may work well. You may want to assume that it is highly corrosive and needs to be cleaned well after each use. You could also use black powder, which is easy to ignite. It is also very highly corrosive.

      • RidgeRunner,

        I wish i had 1/1,000th of the profit from every round of .22 rimfire manufactured direct deposited in my savings account! I would buy you a Big Forever Round TUIT and hire you a 1st Class Handyman and crew to do all your Chores for the next 10 years!

        shootski

  24. To All,

    It seems that the Blue Book of Airguns 13th edition is in, /product/blue-book-of-airguns-13th-edition?a=8834 40 bucks but under specifications it is listed as 0.01 lbs, there is something wrong with that. Guess just a typo.

    Mike

  25. B.B.

    Sorry I did not see this blog when it came out. I checked, but I guess it was late in posting?
    I really hate cars that lock their doors for me. If I want them locked, I can do it myself, thank you! Rant over.

    When I see a 5-10% discount for a refurbished gun I wonder why the original purchaser returned it.
    I have alway “assumed”, that the gun was defective in some way. Why would I want to buy somebody else’s reject?
    Thank you for your blog and your wealth of information! Wishing you the best for 2021 and beyond,

    -Yogi

  26. HAPPY NEW YEAR! everyone. Hoping 2021 is a better year for all of us.

    Chris, and anyone else, using the COMMENTS RSS feed to check for new comments, are you seeing additional text at the beginning of the comments? Here is an example: In reply to Gunfun1. If ENTRIES RSS feed is selected, this added text is not shown. This just started a while back so maybe WordPress has changed something? It does not affect being able to read the comments, it just makes it more cluttered with unnecessary text at the beginning.

    P.S. When I post the actual text it only shows Gunfun1 in blue so you have to actually go to the comments.
    Geo

      • GF1,
        Well, it is not really a problem. It just makes it more difficult to read the comments. Some of us use the RSS feed to view new comments being made to previous blogs. You won’t see those without using the RSS feed.
        Geo

    • Geo,

      I have noticed the same. It makes it harder to quickly catch up on comments. Maybe BB can ask IT? I would 99% swear that I have seen some without it in the last few days though. A few, not many.

      Chris

    • Geo,

      I think it started in mid December and it only applies to comments made to comments, if you are responding to the blog the reference in not in place.

      For whatever reason they have added a reference to the comment you are replying to.

      Mike

        • Geo,

          May be, but it is just html stuff and it should look like this in the rss feed; In reply to Gunfun1

          But it looks like this; href=”/blog/2021/01/buying-used/#comment-468757″ data-wpel-link=”internal” target=”_self” rel=”follow”>Gunfun1

          Not a deal breaker but they should recode it, folks don’t like html code in their eyes.

          Mike

          edit to add, click thru to the blog because the rss feed does not resolve html.

    • Geo791,

      From its behavior its from the WordPress update. I agree it does make the feed more cluttered in appearance but it does provide some context to whom it was responding to.

      Siraniko

      • Thank you for the reply Siraniko. I guess I understand…though I still think it adds unnecessary content. When you click on the RSS comment it opens the comment and it is obvious who was being replied to.
        Geo

  27. Hello! While not bidding in a futile bidding war over the Plainsman I got back in to the garage and build up my “semi bullpup”. The grip is in front of the trigger, so I guess that is one point where is qualifies… I pushed the sight as far forward as possible before I had to rest my cheek on the main tube. This was my starting point. The second consideration is the charging lever: the grip has to be far back enough to miss collecting it. With some juggling I think this is a fair compromise. It actually feels quite comfortable and the barrel does not wave about when holding the gun up. Do far it’s in “loose fit” stage before I start to polish all the burs/warts out of it. The next big problem is the safety. How do I hook that up? hmm… I just love diopter sights by the way. Great for my eyes and they even out my wobbly hold. : – ) Can’t wait to try this out. If it’s good I will make a better stock. -Robert.

      • Siraniko. : – )

        The safety is a small hook thing in front of the trigger. I am not a fan of that type.
        Too close to the trigger… if you slip putting the safety on you trigger the gun… hmm.. So I am probably going to have some remote lever attached to it and have it somewhere where my extended index finger can get it. ( away from the trigger…) . The charging lever operates normally. I may have to adjust the grip
        if it is in the way.( no the grip does not swing out anymore, it is fixed) This is easy at the grip is on 6mm socket cap screw on. Once I start using it I will then decide how exactly I want to charge it and change things accordingly. The end of the longeron against my thigh and crank down with the lever. The butt pad is not strong enough. Yet… I would not bother with the gas ram on this version as it’s just too darn hardcore to charge. ( Too much nitrogen ! ). I feel this design is the way forward. The sight and barrel is high, the butt is low, the grip is relaxed ( the palm heel rest next? ). I think it will be a great shooter. Happy new year! Oh and here is some pics of the new grip and trigger housing.
        – Robert.

  28. B.B.,
    I’ve been offline awhile and I am still getting caught up. I read my wife the two paragraphs under “Background.”
    She whole-heartedly agrees…and so do I, of course! Great stuff. =>
    Take care, God bless, and praying your 2021 goes well for you,
    dave

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