by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Artemis PCP air pistol.
This report covers:
- Fill
- Slow regulator
- The test
- First shot
- JSB Hades
- Air Arms 16-grain domes
- Wait a day
- No luck!
- Summary
We have been looking at the Artemis PP700S-A PCP pistol over the past several months and today is the final test at 25 yards. Because the Artemis uses a proprietary fill probe, I’ve set up the Nomad II air compressor as a dedicated fill station.
Fill
I get 20 shots per fill because the pistol does not work well at its maximum operating pressure of 250 bar. I learned in Part 2 from watching the power curve that this pistol wants to be filled to a maximum of 2800 psi (193 bar) and it falls off the curve around 150 bar. That’s where the 20 good shots lie.
Slow regulator
The pistol I am testing has an extremely slow regulator. I once had a Daystate Huntsman Mark II reg that took 25 seconds to stabilize, but the one in this pistol takes over two full minutes! Readers told me to use silicone oil every time I fill the gun, so I did that 4 times for the tests you are about to see and nothing has changed. Other readers say it just takes a lot of shots to break in the regulator of this pistol and I am beginning to think that is correct. Nothing else seems to work. So, for the first 600-1,000 shots, just give it a lot of time to fill, because if you don’t your shots will go everywhere. Whoever gets this one next should know that I have put a couple hundred of those shots on it already.
The test
I shot off a bench from 25 yards. The pistol was rested directly on a sandbag. The pistol was scoped and sighted-in in Part 4, so no adjustments were made to the scope because I’m not looking for shots in the center of the bull. I’m looking for all the shots going to the same place. The scope can always be adjusted.
First shot
The first shot was taken about 10 minutes after disconnecting from the compressor, so the reg had filling the firing chamber completely and that shot was powerful. I started with JSB Exact Jumbo pellets.
The powerful first shot went to the left of the next four shots that I waited 2 minutes apiece for. I saw this through the spotting scope, so I took the target down and photographed it for us. The five are in 0.979-inches with the centers of the last 4 being just 0.569-inches apart.
The pellet to the left was the first shot that was more powerful than the 4 that followed. The Artemis put 5 JSB Jumbo pellets into 0.979-inches at 25 yards with the final 4 in 0.569-inches.
After photographing this target I remounted it and shot a second five. The time that lapsed between stopping to photograph and resuming shooting was at least 10 minutes and more likely 15. And once again the first shot was more powerful than those that followed. That pellet went into the SAME HOLE as the first shot! Doesn’t that suggest that the reg is filling slowly and needs to speed up? It sure does to me!
The final five pellets went into a (now) 10-shot group that measures 1.385-inches between centers of the two pellets farthest apart, with the 8 shots that were each two minutes apart in 1.033-inches.
A long pause between shooting the first and second groups sent the first pellet of the second 5 shots into the same hole as the first pellet from the first 5 shots. Ten shots in 1.385-inches at 25 yards with 8 in 1.033-inches.
I’m a good enough shot with a pistol that the hole-in-hole first and 6th shots means as much to me as anything. I think this pistol is capable of accuracy at that level. But this is a test, so let’s move on. From this point forward I only shot 5-shot groups because waiting two minutes between shots was eating up a lot of time.
JSB Hades
The next pellet I tested was the new JSB Hades hollowpoint. It weighs the same as the 15.89-grain dome I just shot, but that doesn’t mean it goes to the same place. I forget why there was a long pause between the last group and the start of this one. And BAM! Once more the first shot was loud and powerful and went to its own place on the target. The shots that followed were each two minutes apart and were less loud and less powerful. So, this time I did something different. I let the first pellet hole stay and then fired 5 more pellets. And, look what happened.
Guess which shot went first? That’s right, the high one. Six Hades pellets in 1.509-inches at 25 yards with 5 in 0.951-inches.
If that doesn’t convince you that the reg fills slowly, then nothing is going to. I am convinced and plan to do something about it.
Air Arms 16-grain domes
The last pellet I tried on this day was the 16-grain Air Arms dome. Five went into 0.904-inches with four in just 0.513-inches between centers at 25 yards. That gave me a lot of hope that I had found the magic pellet at last. But was I burned out from shooting? I had also tested the Umarex Synergis rifle the same day, so there was a lot of shooting going on in the Pelletier house.
Five Air Arms domes went into 0.904-inches at 25 yards, with 4 in 0.513-inches.
Wait a day
I decided to wait until the next morning to shoot a final group of Air Arms domes. I would refill the pistol and then shoot the first shot deliberately away from where I wanted to aim. Then I would wait 2 minutes between each shot and see what I could do. I had really high hopes for this!
No luck!
The next morning I set everything up and did exactly what I said above. The first three pellets landed almost touched, but shot number four proved antisocial and left the group. This time I was following the exact procedure of waiting 2 minutes for each shot and there was no called pull. That shot just went wide for reasons of its own. Then the next and last shot went back into the group. So five pellets are in 0.948-inches at 25 yards, with four of them in 0.476-inches.
Even a day later and waiting between shots I could not get 5 pellets to group. Five Air Arms pellets are in 0.948-inches with 4 in 0.476-inches.
Summary
I find the Artemis PP700S-A PCP pistol a fine air pistol, with a somewhat serious flaw. That slow regulator is going to give poor accuracy until it breaks in and starts working as it should. Once that happens, though, this pistol is pretty wonderful. It develops a solid 12 foot-pounds and gives stunning accuracy with a good range of premium pellets. It seems to be well-built, though everyone says the o-ring seals will eventually have to be replaced.
I think this is an air pistol for a shooter who is already in the hobby and knows what to expect. At the price, it is a very good deal.
B.B.
How long until the slow regulator “catches up”? Can you change springs to hurry it along?
2 minutes between shoots must feel like an eternity?
-Y
Yogi,
One owner has said it takes about 800 shots. That’s the only number I have heard. And yes, waiting does take a very long time.
B.B.
Not a fun gun to me.
And what bothers me is that first loud shot that’s different than the others. For me I would have to sight the gun to the first shot fired. Why probably because I would at some point in time pick it up to shoot at a pest. Why else would it be .22 caliber for anyway?
I guess it could be a plinking gun but what I would have to find out is how long between shots I would need to wait for it to be minute of tin can accurate. But that’s how I see the gun being used. I don’t believe it’s a good target gun.
B.B.,
There’s one thing that come to mind from your recent writings. The Chinese are getting more consistent with their barrel manufacturing. (Could somebody there be reading this blog?).
If fire lapping can accelerate barrel wear to help settle a particular pellet to a barrel, is there a method to accelerate a regulator to get worn in? Sounds like a warranty voiding procedure though beyond normal disassembly.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
A couple readers told me to lubricate the reg to get it working faster. That’s all I know, as I have never encountered this before. These are the kinds of dirty little secrets that I seem to uncover from time to time, when everyone raves about a certain airgun. It’s why I don’t get excited anymore before I test a gun.
B.B.
B.B.,
Bummer. I would be inclined to tear into it. It is not much good now. It could be too many Bellville washers were used,….or something. 🙁
Good Day to you and to all,…… Chris
Chris,
Yeah — or something. I don’t have the experience to tear into it.
This is just one reason why I don’t care for regulators, in general. Most of the time they work great but when they don’t what can you do?
B.B.
BB,
Not much to a regulator – basically a valve with a threaded shank; a stack of Belleville washers; a nut and some O-rings. All the “magic” is in the regulator body/plenum design and tolerances.
The washer stack and the valve seat needs some time to lap themselves in properly. Guess that regulators using quality components and close tolerances settle faster than the cheap ones.
I installed a HuMa regulator into my Maximus and because the gauge is located right by the rifle’s valve it now reads the regulated pressure rather than the reservoir pressure. I checked the recovery time and it is around a second from the time the rifle is fired to when the gage snaps back to it’s set pressure.
Hank
Vana,
I was thinking something obvious like dirt, crud, etc.. I am sure B.B. would definitely tear it down and play with it if he had more time. No doubt,… that commodity is probably at a wee bit of a premium. 😉
You and I would, for no other than the simple reason that it is useless at this point. There was some other good (alternative thought) posts today too though.
Chris
Chris,
Dirt, crud and poor valve to seat alignment (caused by excessive clearances) will usually show up as “regulator creep”. The valve doesn’t close positively enough and additional pressure makes its way into the plenum.
Hank,
So?,…. you are getting along well with Huma regulator addition to the Maximus? I love mine.
Without looking,… I went from a 100 fps spread over 27 shots,… to,…. the first and last shot (of 27) being the same fps. About 12 shots in, there was a slight rise and fall. 12 fps as I recall, but gradual. I will take 12 over 100 any day of the week. I have not shot it past 27 shots without a refill. Given that performance,.. I am sure that the shot string could be extended even more.
Chris
Chris,
Real happy with the Maximus, its shooting well with it’s new .22 barrel and I am looking forward to doing a bit of bunny hunting with it.
I just installed a new Hawke Sidewinder 6-24×56 on the FX which means I will be playing “musical scopes” with some of the rifles and that will free up a proper 3-12×44 AO scope for the Maximus.
With the way the reg is set I am getting 30ish shots per fill @ 748 fps. Like you ES is 10-12 fps.
I usually shoot 5 sets of 5 shots when I am target shooting so I have been refilling after that.
Hank
Hank,
Yours,… sounds like mine. I have that same spec. scope (UTG/Leapers) on the Maximus now. It is about perfect for it. It will do an easy 30 shots,… but since I do not shoot it often,… I generally will top it off to 2800 when filling another gun,… which unfortunately has not been that often this year.
Not sure how I ended up with the 27 shot count test number. I think it was when I tested it pre-reg. prior to the install and just kept it the same shot count to make it all an even comparison.
Chris
Chris there’s no need to tear into it, at least for a start. The small allen screw inside the triggerguard might take care of the problem B.B. encountered… I think that a higher power setup might be more consistent, even with some shotcount loss.
Bill
I am one of the owners that posted about the long break in period, and I do really like the gun. I have never had my regulator apart, but it did eventually settle down and get stable. I burned through most of the break in shots trying to tune and understand the gun, as I bought it back when there was not much experience with it.
One thing that I typically still do is to fire off a blank shot when I pull it out of the safe, if it has been sitting for a long time, just to sort of reset things. I suppose I will do that over the chrony next time to see what happens, but I just verify the barrel is empty, cock it, and place the muzzle on the carpet on the floor and pull the trigger . . .
But it now is very stable – sometimes I just plink at 3″ and 1″ steel spinners I have out at 45 yards off my deck – If I rest the gun I can hit the 3″ one more than half the time, and that is estimating hold over with a red dot that is set for 10 yards, just shooting without worrying about the time between shots – sometimes as fast as I can load, and others much slower, depending on what I am doing.
I think it is 4 years old now, and I have done no maintenance on it, but I did install an adaptor to allow the use of a DonnyFL moderator on it for much quieter indoor shooting. I have been very happy with the gun (although for full disclosure it is the older “W” model that has the round shroud with a slightly shorter barrel than the S-A).
Alan,
Thank you for responding and telling us your experience.
B.B.
BB,
I wonder if the reg pressure setting might be a problem.
The Canadian version is hobbled to sub 500 fps (.177, 460; .22, 430 IIRC) and haven’t seen slow reg complaints. Accuracy and shot count is excellent (as expected). Price is reasonable and there are package deals that include barrels in both calibers.
Hank
Hi B.B. and all,
I have twiddled with my pp700 a fair bit. And it really is a great little pistol. I do not have any issues with the regulator at all (anymore).
I read a piece, I think it was by one of the guys from Huma, Mark or Huub. He got the most and most consistent shots by turning the regulator up a little and adjusting the hammer so it shot quite fast,like 240 meters per second with a .22 jumbo exact. And then turning in the air port restrictor till you reach the wanted speed. Like 120-130 meters per second for close range indoor shooting or up a little for outdoor longer ranges. I followed this recipe and am very happy indeed at how it came out. Also just having to twiddle one setting, the air port restrictor, to get a very broad range of speeds (~8-25 foot pounds) is very cool.
I went and added the silencer and silencer adapter and the folding stock and now it is a great little carbine.
Best regards,
Carel
Carel,
Thank you for your input.
B.B.
Carel,
Are you talking about the coarse grub screw/set screw that is in the breech block? And could you hazard a guess at how much you added to the reg and hammer?
My .177 cal ONIX is quite accurate out to 30 yards in spite of suffering from the slow reg issues. And I don’t worry about timing between shots either. I’d make adjustments if I knew how much and if I thought it would add to accuracy.
Half
So the people that own these pistols.
What do you mostly use them for? And how do you have the guns sighted? Can they hold poi for 20 shots or do you have to sight a little high and let it go a little low after 20 shots. And that be for the people that say the regulator is finally working in thier gun.
BB
I went back and dug up my old result’s when I was testing my PP700sa. The older version of what your testing. Now mind you, mine is .177 caliber.
220 bar PP700
Down to 100 bar
40 shots
Avg 727 down to shot 41@ 718fps
It’s been quite a while since I recorded those numbers. It was after an o-ring reseal because of a slow leak.
Thanks
Ray
Ray,
Thank you very much.
B.B.
i like some of the airguns made by SPA/Artemis, and have been looking at the detuned sub-500 fps PP800 Rebel .25 caliber PCP carbine: http://www.canadashootingsupply.ca/spa-pp800-rebel-pcp-pistol-25-cal-cp2.html
it looks alot like a PCP version of the Diana Chaser co2 rifle, which i own and thoroughly enjoy.
Spinozo,
I have the Chaser Pistol / Rifle kit in .177 cal and found that the silencer screws off of my long barrel and will screw onto my pistol barrel. The pistol is more accurate WITH the silencer.
If you have the same kit, I would like to know if you have tried this and what your results were.
Here are my results with the PISTOL at 13 yards, shooting from a vise, with cheap pellets that you would find at most big box dept and sporting goods stores, with and without the silencer. Following that will be my results with the better pellets that you would buy from airgun specialty stores like Pyramyd and Air gun Depot.
I think that you’ll agree that the difference in accuracy is significant.
I don’t have any recorded data for the long barrel without the silencer, for some reason. I have some 13 yard velocity and accuracy data WITH the silencer and I think I may have to revisit the gun with the unsilenced long barrel and test it out at longer distances, as well.
Half
hi halfstep, i have the .22 cal Chaser kit, and i also removed the suppressor, but for a different reason than you did.
i found the suppressor was easily removed with a vice to hold the barrel and a heatgun with some rubber bike innertube wrapped around the suppressor so my vice-grip wouldn’t scratch the finish as i twisted it off.
i dont know why i was careful with the suppressors finish, because i removed it because i am Canadian and suppressors are not legally allowed on airguns.
i had pre-ordered my Chaser kit from PA and I received it before PA, or I discovered that even permanently attached suppressors were not legal in Canada.
As for shooting my Chaser, i regularly chronograph all my airguns with a wide variety of ammunition, but i dont record much of the data.
i do recall averages with he long barrel around 540 fps with crosman 14.3 grain lead pellets.
i have found the Chaser .22 cal to be a bit more powerful than its rating.
i dont get much time to test and record a accuracy, and instead spend most of my time with the Chaser out killing soup cans and plinking .
And these are the better quality pellets.
Well, I was just about to say that I really did not want to have much to do with this pistol and then Carel spoke up and may have changed my mind. Hmmm.
Pretty much the same thing…and same advice…I gave for the old Mk. I (green grip) version:
Regulator wasn’t regulating….but by being hard headed, just thot the pistol. Every time I checked, was getting closer and closer to working like it was regulated.
By about shot #250,was acting like it should be acting…without any regulator adjustments other than time/break in.
Ribbonstone,
That’s the fastest I have heard of it breaking in. One person said about 800 shots. I probably have 175-200 at present.
Thanks for telling us.
B.B.
First shot or two after a fill up are “off speed”. Doesn’t matter how much I wait between shots there after. Stop in the middle range of pressure and refill, still get one or two “off” shots.
So I just learned to dump a shot or two (live or “blanks”) after a fill, then get serious
Only seems to happen after a fill. Just going to have to guess that the pule “tapa-tapa-tapa” of a pump or compressor is some how different than the quick clean self-cycle of the regulator/valve.