by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Diana 35 pellet rifle.
This report covers:
- The test
- Sight in
- Air Arms Falcons
- Season the bore
- Other pellets
- RWS Superdome
- RWS Superpoint
- Discussion
- Summary
I’m testing the accuracy of the Diana 35 today. I hadn’t planned to do that before I opened the rifle and at least lubricated it, but I’m now glad that I did. The trigger on this rifle is adjusted as good as I can get it, but it’s still a bit vague where stage two begins. I think a good lubrication of the trigger parts will help that a lot. So, what you see today could improve.
Also, I note that this rifle is cocking as easily as a Diana 27, yet it is more powerful. It isn’t up to the full spec of a 35, but the cocking effort is so much less that, unless the mainspring is severely canted, I might just leave it as it is. It’s sort of exactly what I was hoping for when I dreamed the whole thing up while working on Michael’s Winchester 427/Diana 27.
The test
I’m shooting off a sandbag rest at 10 meters today, using a modified artillery hold. I’m holding the rifle more than the classic artillery hold, but not as tight as a conventional hold. With the shape of the buttstock and the slipperiness of the plastic buttplate, I can’t really hold it with a conventional artillery hold.
I’m shooting 5-shot groups, so I can shoot many more types of pellets before I get tired. That really paid off.
Sight in
I had the rear sight completely off the rifle and broken into all its parts, so a sight-in was necessary. I sighted-in with Air Arms Falcon pellets for no particular reason. The first shot hit 2 inches high and slightly to the right. It took two more shots to get in the center of the bull. After that I never adjusted the sights for the other pellets.
Air Arms Falcons
First to be tested were the Falcons I sighted-in with. The first group was well-centered but vertical. It measures 0.442-inches between the two widest shots of the 5-shot group. Not a bad start!
Five Falcon pellets went into 0.442-inches at 10 meters. Very encouraging!
Season the bore
I was so impressed by the first group that I thought I needed to shoot a second one. Then I heard you guys telling me I needed to season the bore for this pellet. Well, I won’t shoot enough for that, but I might as well shoot that second group right now.
The second group of Falcons went to roughly the same place and was even more tantalizing. Four of the pellets are in 0.123-inches. But one additional shot opened the group to 0.396-inches. I have no idea which of the five shots that one was. This rifle likes Falcon pellets.
Five Falcon pellets went into 0.396-inches with 4 in just 0.123-inches. Almost a screamer!
Other pellets
Then I tried a host of other pellets that all gave good groups but not great ones. Rather than flood you with a bunch of mediocre pictures, I’ll just list the pellets I tried.
RWS Hobby
RWS Meisterkugeln Rifle
H&N Baracuda Match with 4.53mm heads
Crosman Premier 7.9-grain
JSB Exact RS
JSB Exact Heavy pellets
The largest 5-shot group made by these pellets measures 0.718-inches between centers, so we are not talking about poor accuracy. I’m simply cutting to the chase and showing groups made by the best pellets, because we all know they are the only ones I will try, out of this batch, from this point on.
RWS Superdome
I hope you’re paying attention here, because the next two pellets both come from RWS. I think I mentioned awhile back that vintage Diana airguns favor RWS pellets. The current Diana guns do, too, though they also like other premium pellets, like those from JSB.
Five RWS Superdomes went into 0.553-inches at 10 meters. The group shifted its point of impact a little, but that’s to be expected when a heavier pellet is fired.
Five RWS Superdomes made this 0.553-inch group at 10 meters.
RWS Superpoint
The last pellet I’ll show was made by the RWS Superpoint. I wasn’t going to test it until I remembered that in my .22-caliber Diana 27 the Superpoint is one of the very best pellets. So, I gave them a try and, lo and behold, they turned in a 0.459-inch group that was just behind the two groups of Falcons.
Five RWS Superpoints made this 0.459-inch group at 10 meters.
Discussion
This 35 is one of the first, vintage .177 Dianas that has proved to be accurate for me. I include in that list the underlever Diana 50 that I tested for you a couple years ago. It did well at 10 meters, too, but fell apart at 25 yards. Of course that rifle is a taploader and I know that has some bearing on the accuracy. I haven’t shot the 35 at 25 yards yet, but I’m hoping it will do okay.
Now, as for this 35, I like it. I like the size. I like the shape of the stock. I like how easy it cocks. And I like the accuracy.
I don’t care for the trigger — yet, but I think I can do something about that. I also don’t care for the vibration and jolt when it fires, but again I believe I can fix it.
Summary
I set out to get a Diana 35 working as smooth as I could, so I would have an adult-sized air rifle that was also pleasant to shoot. So far this one is better than I was hoping for. Now — if I can just do my part!
BB—–Put a strip of stick on sandpaper on the butt, and it will not slip on your shoulder. And please try your Burris signature scope rings. ——Ed
B.B.
Other than the trigger, I like it a lot!
-Y
B.B.,
I take it that you had already replaced the breech seal? How about a picture of it next time along with a picture of the old seal for comparison? I don’t suppose a small rubber knob would fix the butt plate from slipping? That I think is one cause of the vertical stringing.
Siraniko
PS: This report covers First paragraph third sentence: “The trigger on this rifle is adjusted as good as I can get ot (to), but it’s still a bit vague where stage two begins.”
ot (it)?
oy???
Oy, oy, oy, oy, my Bulgarian Baby.
Oy, oy, oy, oy, my Bulgarian Doll.
Oy, oy, oy, oy, my Bulgarian Baby.
Oy, oy, oy, oy, oy, oy, oy, oy I Love You.
Man From U.N.C.L.E.
RR
I uy, uy. Now your reminding me of my mom and grandma talk’n when I was growing up.
My oldest daughter has picked up on talking like that before she was in her teens. And of course she use to hang around my mom. And my mom wasn’t Spanish. But she did have Bulgarian and Italian in her. My dad had Italian.
My mom and dad would often speak in thier national language. Of course it was when they didn’t want me to know what they ment. And most of the time it was when I did something that they didn’t like. They was probably saying like what we gonna do with that boy. He’ll nevva learn. Then I would hear I uy, uy from mom. Then dad, but as we called him; pop would say you better go to your room boy and think about what you did. That was never good. I mean that was nevva good when that happened. 🙂
Oh and what does oy, oy, oy mean. 😉
See what you got started now. Why did I even reply. 🙂
LOL!
Hank
Right. 🙂
Hank,
Did you see that episode?!
RR,
Used to watch Man From U.N.C.L.E. all the time, don’t remember that episode.
We had a school chant for the sporting events… Somebody would shout out “ZIGGA-ZAGGA-ZIGGA-ZAGGA” and everybody would bellow “OY OY OY” in reply.
It was more like a war-cry than a chant as it usually accompanied an offensive move from the (football, hockey or soccer) team.
For some reason your questioning “ot” triggered the memory. Funny that even now, thinking of the chant still raises the hair on my arms from the energy it carried.
Hank
Hank,
It was the episode where a band was supposed to play that song at some ski resort and U.N.C.L.E.’s arch enemies were going to amplify the song outside, which the frequencies of the song were going to cause a massive avalanche.
RR
Well I could see that happening.
Would be like repeated shot waves going off. Especially if they had powerful enough speakers.
BB,
Most definitely worth a trip inside.
Siraniko,
Fixed. Thanks,
The breech seal looks just like all Diana breech seals now. Do you really need to see it? As for what it looked like, that was shown in Part 2.
B.B.
B.B.,
Just wondering if the shim made the seal stand prouder than usual.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Well yes, I guess it does. But I really can’t see any difference.
B.B.
BB,
Since you found the butt plate too slick, would you consider replacing it with a rubber recoil pad? Something like a Pachmayr? Or are you more inclined to leave a vintage gun original?
Derrick,
I want to leave it original. Whatever I use has to be removable and leave no trace of having been there.
B.B.
BB
This on the lines of what Ed has mentioned.
Get some of those stick on round sanding discs. You can get up to like 8 inches in diameter.
You can cut a strip to fit the shape of the gun butt pad. It should stick good but can be removed if needed. Might leave some tacky glue residue but it can be wiped off with alcohol. And the alcohol should evaporate without discoloring the butt pad.
I think Ed has a good idea.
B.B.,
The LimbSaver brand of slip on butt pads are (simply superb). I am surprised that you do not have a S,M,L set aside for just such occasions. Not to mention, they add a quick 1″ LOP, which would make it nicer for an adult when shooting a shorty.
Chris
Chris
Do you remember BB answering one of my replies on the TR5 report.
I asked about if the butt stock tightened up if he moved in for a shorter legnth of pull.
He said his TR5 still felt the same in short or out long on the legnth of pull.
But he mentioned that match shooters use a shorter legnth of pull.
My question is do you have trouble of some sort shooting a gun with a short legnth of pull? I myself like pulling the gun in tight. Especially if I’m shooting standing unsupported. So a short legnth of pull doesn’t bother me.
Just trying to understand why you want to increase your legnth of pull. And I got long arms and still like shooting with a short legnth of pull.
GF1,
I bench 99% of the time,… so I guess it is just a matter of preference. If being a purist,…. it is what “feels” right to (me). On the other hand,.. a dedicated shooter can adapt to whatever. I am not that skilled, nor have the time to practice. The 3 I have are set up about the same on LOP.
There has to be (ideal ergonomics) involved. You may adapt, but that does not mean that the gun is set up ideal for you.
Chris
Chris
Ok I get where you coming from.
And this probably doesn’t even matter to you. But related.
I use to be pretty good shooting open sights and standing unsupported. But got lazy I’m going to call it shooting with scopes.
About a year or so ago I started forcing myself to try shooting open sight on guns again. Basically trying to advance my shooting skills again. Or in this case step backwards and regain what I lost.
I don’t want to brag. But happy with myself. I actually said this morning I have gotten back my open sight shooting skills as well as standing shooting unsupported. I’m not struggling anymore to hit targets shooting that way.
I actually took all my guns outside today and shot each one standing unsupported at spinners and feral cans. They was scoped, open sight and red dot too.
I got it back is the best I can say. Brought back memories as shooting as a kid.
Not trying to rub it in. Just maybe encouraging advancement. You won’t believe how much it all helps in the end. Remember when you started shooting at 100 yards. 50 yards was nothing after that. Try a short legnth of pull for a bit and see what happens. Not going to say it will be the best for you. But you never know.
And you can just say Gunfun1 shut up anytime you want. You know how the ole Gunfun1 can be. 😉
GF1,
Brag away! Well deserved as it came (back) with dedication and practice. I would be proud too.
Chris
Chris
Thanks.
And really I’m happy.
It took a while to remember how to squint with the open sights to get things in better focus.
And it took a while to get my control with the locking in my hold and minimizing the shake or wiggle or what ever we want to call it. I just remember in my mind I would be saying I got to tighten up and reduce the wiggle. But it was still a timing thing of when to pull the trigger.
But yep. Kind of. And a big kind of like riding a bicycle. But I did get back with it and remembered.
B.B.
The Diana 35 sounds like a real nice shooter – glad that you are happy with it!
Never shot a Diana, curious as to how it would compare to a FWB 124 which I know well. Sorry, I know that you don’t like to do comparisons, but maybe you could comment on that.
I always find it interesting when the POI moves when different pellets are tried. You would figure that when the sights are aligned with the bore you would be good to go (except for vertical differences due to pellet weight/velocity). What do you think would be the likely cause for the shift in POI – harmonics? pellet spiral?
Cheers and Happy Friday!
Hank
Hank,
The Diana guns aren’t as powerful as the FWB 124, but the ball bearing trigger is crisper and lighter.
They are also on the smaller side which makes them easy to hold.
The pellet shift is from weight, alone. A heavier pellet stays in the barrel longer and is there as the recoil begins (apparently) so it shoots higher. Light pellets get out quick and, like handgun bullets, the faster ones shoot lower. The Baracudas shot about one inch higher than all other pellets in this test.
B.B.
Thanks B.B.!
Now that I am thinking about it, I’m off to give the FWB 124 some trigger-time!
Hank
Hank,
Did you get your 124 trigger adjusted with the inaudible “click” at the beginning of the second stage? I love that feature in my 124 and 127. Makes it seem just like a set trigger.
LarryMo,
There is no click the way I have my trigger adjusted – just a smooth travel (with a slight resistance) for a short distance then a distinct stop and a bit more pressure to (no creep) to shoot.
It’s not a match trigger like on my FWB 300 but I have always liked it. The 124 is my favorite walk-about rifle – a fun shooter – just love plinking with it.
Hank
BB—Stick on sandpaper comes off without leaving any adhesive behind. ———-Siraniko—-the rubber button found on some airguns is there to prevent the gun from slipping when it is leaning against a wall. ———Ed
Zimbabweed,
Thanks for pointing that out. I had thought that it might be used for shoulder.
Siraniko
BB
I like this one. Pleased you are enamored with the cocking as is. We all are wondering how accurate it will be after the trigger fix, stock butt issue resolved and a good application of TIAT. Once there I would encourage you to also try a few other pellets: H&N Finale Match Light, Air Arms Diabolo Express and JSB Exact Express. These 3 are often my go to pellets for German made air rifles.
Deck
Deck,
I will try some of your pellets. I hope I have them.
B.B.
B.B.,
Might the mainspring be broken near one end?
Michael
Michael,
If this was a Diana from the 1980s I would expect that. I haven’t see a broken spring in these vintage guns, so I don’t know. It sure shoots like a broken spring.
B.B.
B.B.,
I just remembered. Carel replaced the spring in one of the air rifles you recently got from him. If this is the one, then the spring is new and certainly O.K. Maybe the replacement spring is the reason it cocks so smoothly?
Michael
Michael,
I think he may have replaced the spring in the 27S. This rifle cocks too easy for a 35.
B.B.
B.B.,
Glad you are enjoying all the Diana’s you bought from Carel. I may need to pick one up at some point. I told Kate I would not be getting another airgun for a while after I bought the RAW, but I have already bought one more so I better stop for a while.
I can’t wait for you to test the RAW it is an amazing gun. I got the .22 cal. from PA hoping it would be backyard friendly. It is fairly quiet with pellets over 0.20 gr. I now have both a pistol and a rifle that I know shoots better than I do. Not much sense in shooting targets at less than 25 yards with the RAW. My first shot at 10m before any sighting took out the X on the pistol target. That is usually a bad omen but not this time.
Now that you have enabled me into a full fledged airgun addiction I may need and intervention.
My youngest son shot the RAW for about 4 hours at the cabin so it is getting broke in and settling down. It does have a noticeable kick for a gun this heavy though.
Don
Supposed to be pellets over 20 gr, guess I had another senior moment.
I have been getting video of what looks like a different squirrel at times out back that don’t look like Rocky. Last night I got both at the same time !
So we have Rocky and who ? Need a name for the new one .
Been wacking starlings too . Using a R7 most of the week, and broke out the FWB 800 today .
Making good ones out of bad ones for a long time.
tt
tt,
Be careful you could shoot the starlings eye out with the 800.
One of my neighbors up at my cabin has quite a few cameras out. All he ever gets on them are bears. I hope they stay away from the cabin that is a pest I don’t want to have to deal with.
We used to have coyotes when I first bought the place. They were then replaced by mountain lions, now the bears have replaced the mountain lions and we have some wolves moving in. Kate now caries her pistol when she goes on a walk. If we had a dog that, would be ideal to take on a walk, it might give you a chance with a mountain lion.
Don
Don
I think I would rather have the pests we have here. Much less dangerous.
tt
Don
I seen a pack of coyotes put a German Shepard down. Wild animals ain’t no joke.
I hope she has a extra clip or a speed loader ready if it’s a revolver. Most of the time they will run after the first shot. But if they are hungry and thin looking you better watch out. They are on a mission. Takes a lot to send them running the other way. Most of the time you better hit when they are in shark attack mode. I’m sure you know that already. Just say’n.
GF1,
Years ago I watched a pack of coyotes take down an antelope using a circle and a tag team approach till the antelope ran out of gas. They are very clever.
Kate has a 38 sp revolver. It is more good for scaring off a bear but these are black bears and usually will not attack unless you do something stupid. The mountain lions are a different story if they get you it is usually when you have no idea it is coming. Hopefully you could get a shot after it gets you but I would not count on it. It normally goes after the smaller prey so having a dog along would help get a chance at a shot. I don’t know about wolves other than they are coyotes on steroids. I have also heard there are numerous critters reported to be half wolf and coyote so that is a whole new ballgame.
I like the critters around as long as they don’t cause any trouble. It is a different story if you have any livestock. Although I have seen no evidence that anything is attacking the range cows and their calves around the cabin. Those range cows are a tough customer. I did have one chase me around a tree one time when I got too close to her calf.
Anyway I am not too worried but it pays to keep your eyes open.
Don
Don
We have had a rise in bobcats a few years back but I haven’t seen any lately. The state opened up a bobcat hunting season and maybe that changed things.
There was one that came at my other house and would watch me shoot. It didn’t bother me at all. But I could see him and new he was there. It’s when you don’t know is when there’s a problem.
But best I can say is just be aware.
Benj-Don
See my post down a way on Cougars and some really good info from the folks that know the Cat.
shootski
TT
Rocky bringing in the girlfriend this year to show off? 🙂
Probably too early for baby’s to be out. How big was it compared to Rocky?.
GF
It looked a little fatter, and had more of the white belly fur showing.
tt
TT
Did the other one still fly?
Maybe it’s momma flying squirrel ready for the baby’s to come???
If so I bet no flying for her. I’m guessing. Maybe they still can when they are ready for baby time???
GF
They crawl down the tree, eat, then crawl back up. I don’t know if they do any flying or not.
That suet block must give them a bad case of the runs. really some greasy stuff. Wal-Mart woodpecker blocks.
tt
TT
Don’t know
Maybe you will catch a picture or video of them and you can post it.
I would be interested in seeing.
GF
Worst thing is that they are much faster than the camera. They have the fast, nervous, and unpredictable movements of red squirrels . Lets see…
GF
they are both there . But it was in just one frame of the video.
One was upside down on the suet block . Then the other one came down the tree and it spooked. In the pic the one that was eating has turned around and heading back up. That spooked the other one, and they both went back up the tree.
Pic shows on the blog.
tt
TT
Kind of looks like gray squirrels. But small for grays. Unless they are young ones.
GF
Definitely flying squirrels. Shirt pocket size . A bit smaller than a full grown red . They have the loose membrane that stretches out between the legs.
I have only seen one in the daytime. That was a long time ago.
These guys only come out when it’s really dark. 9:30 pm has been the earliest so far . Usually midnight or later.
Would be tough getting a good pic with the Nicon. Total dark, flash, pre-focused, tripod, and any sound will spook them.
tt
TT
Ok they are flying squirrels.
But a bit smaller than red squirrels. Our red squirrels are big here. Way bigger than a normal gray squirrel.
GF
You talking about fox squirrels ? Some places they call fox squirrels red squirrels.
Way different thing. We got fox, gray, and red. Some black too.
tt
GF
I replied to myself by mistake.
tt
TT
Yep fox squirrels. We always call them reds. We don’t have red squirrels here that I have ever seen.
But this is what we call red squirrels where I grew up at. And they get big.
GF
That be a fox alright. Seen some smaller in Nebraska, but here they are big. Good eating if you can get them cooked up.
Pressure cooker does the job. Otherwise they can be as tough as on old tire.
tt
TT
We always do them like we did rabbits
Boil them in a pot of water with some apple cider vinegar and a whole yellow onion and a few cloves of garlic till the meat starts coming off the bone. Then we pull the meat off and batter and deep fry with some Andy’s breading.
For sure good.
GF
Let’s try this…
Suet block holder is level full. That’s 5.5″ of suet in front of the tree rat.
tt
TT
Yep and is that Rocky or the other.
GF
I would have to go back to the video clip to know, but I would guess that it is the new one.
tt
TT and GF1,
Here is what we have in Ohio. Note the flying squirrel link in the first paragraph.
http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/species-and-habitats/species-guide-index/mammals/fox-squirrel
I was very surprised to see that the flying squirrel was the most abundant. I have never seen one, but a hunter at work said the best time is in the Winter (pre and post) when the trees are bare of leaves. Catch them on a clear, full moon night and watch the tree tops.
Chris
Chris
I seen a flying squirrel one time here in Illinois. It was in the day time. And that was years ago when I was a kid out on the farm.
I will have to watch in the trees this fall after the leaves fall off and see if I can see any.
We got Chipmunks aruond here too. I actually have seen them in the trees in the summer time setting on limbs. Was kind of surprised. Never recalled seeing them in trees till we moved out here, have always seen them running around on the ground.
tt,
Only one,…. Adrian.
Chris
Chris
We can go with that I guess.
tt
tt,
Amen to that! In Ohio, we do not have much.
I suppose that if one is raised in a dangerous area,… it is just normal and are prepared (or at least, should be).
Chris
Chris
Not much what?
You don’t have coyotes there? I’ll bet they are there. They are usually pretty sneaky. Especially if it’s a wooded area. I’m willing to bet if you had a chicken coop you would be getting some regular visits from ole Wile E. Coyote. You remember how sly he was. And we’ll maybe not sly enough for the ole Roadrunner. But you know what I mean.
GF1,
Yes, some coyote’s. Some snakes. Brown Recluse spider. There was a couple of bears hit (road kill) North of here,… but they are the rarity,… for now.
Chris
Chris
No bears down this way yet. But I bet it happens as time goes. There are some feral hogs moving up now from the south. They have to be reported to the state now.
And we got snakes and definitely spiders.
Chris,
Here is a story about a friend of mine that had a run in with a black bear.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Black-bears-wreaking-havoc-in-Lake-Tahoe-area-2453778.php
I don’t think I would have been a patient as Bill was with this bear.
Don
Don,
Great story. I think I may remember that from the evening news. No doubt, there are many local stories that never make it to the mainstream news.
A fellow worker went to N.Y. and stayed in Pennsylvania overnight. Bears roamed the parking lot and even came up on the 2nd story walkway,… to the 2nd floor rooms access. Pics,… and all.
Knock over a trash can, sniff about,… and then move on to the next interesting thing.
Chris
Chris
Bears would be a new respect to learn. Don’t know if I could
Right now all I see is dangerous.
GF1,
At least in the lower 48, it is all relative on the danger of these larger predators. Shootski was talking about risk the other day and the same applied to being attacked by a bear, mountain lion, or wolf. The odds of attack especially if you are staying aware of your surroundings is probably 1000 times less than an accident on the drive up to my cabin, maybe even way less. I think about the risk of the drive every time but take the risk to get away from the rat race and enjoy nature. I am also off grid with no cell phone service. I get refreshed every time I go up there. There is something that just raises your spirit.
So I am aware but not afraid or overly concerned, like you said just be aware. I have a friend that when it is his turn to die he wants it to be by a bear?
Don
Benji-Don,
I think you are totally correct…driving on the highways is probably THE most dangerous thing we do these days. You are taking you life in you hands every time to go out on the road. We have bears in Michigan too but most are farther to the north. I’ve have never been fearful of them though. Just don’t get between a mother and her cubs.
As far as being mauled and killed by a bear…I can thing of better ways to go.
Geo
GF1 and others,
Here is what I found on Ohio and Black bears.
http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/species-and-habitats/species-guide-index/mammals/black-bear
I live in the county in the center of the state, between the 4 and the 6.
Eeeeek!,……… more than I thought! As always,.. learning something new via the blog. 🙂
Chris
Chris
I don’t think I want a 700 pound bear coming across my driveway. Yipes
Guys
Oy is the abbreviation of “Oy vey !”
It’s a Yiddish term used to express dismay or exasperation. ‘Woe is me ! ”
Almost everyone in NYC used it at least once instead of “What am I gonna do now? ”
Comedian Mel Brooks said it a lot even in the movie Blazing Saddles
Bob
So what do you think it meant in RidgeRunner”s post above. Is the guy sad he can’t be with the girl. Or maybe that she is a hassle in some way giving him trouble. Woe is me. Kind of open there as to what to think. Anyway thanks for the info.
GF1
Guess you had to watch the man from U.N.C.L.E. to know.
Bob
Probably so.
B.B.,
Got any of these: /product/rws-r-10-match-heavy-177-cal-8-2-grains-wadcutter-500ct?p=288
sitting around? If you do maybe give a few of them a trip downrange with the 35; please.
Also the readership has been talking about Cougar and since I’m currently in Cougar Country freezing my butt off I have a link to some very good information about how to relate with them best:
https://www.wildawareutah.org/utah-wildlife-information/cougars/
It has finally stopped SNOWING even above 10’000′ and staying above 32° (0°C) even in the early mornining just before Sunrise. That also happens to be when the Cats do most of their hunting as well as Dusk.
I carry a .44 S&W model 29 in a chest holster but i doubt it would help me unless the other folks in my party were the unlucky ones subject to the Cat’s attack. It really does pay to not go out at dawn and dusk alone anywhere in Utah.
shootski
shootski,
I’ll see what I can do.
B.B.
Shootski
That’s probably the best information. Stay away from the problem.
Makes me remember when I was a kid on the farm. We had a good amount of coyotes out there and some packs of wild dogs. They would try to come in, in the evening and night and get the chickens and baby pigs. We raised rabbits too and had a pretty good size garden. There was alot of yummy stuff to fill thier hungry tummy’s if you know what I mean.
It wasn’t nothing out there to here gun shots at night from the other farm houses that was buy us. When I would talk to my buddies and ask about the gun shots or like wise them asking me and the answer was always a coyote or wild dog showed up. All I can say is you didn’t want to get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Out here where I’m at now the coyote are skittish. When you see them they are usually coming out of the woods and crossing the field to the next section of woods. And soon as they poke thier heads out they are hightailing it across the field. They don’t stop. So they learned what it’s about if they stop. But the farmer lives to the right of me about a 1/4 mile away. He’s got chickens and a garden. He says they visit him more than he likes. He’s always saying shoot them damn things when he talks to me they are nothing but trouble and cost him money. He’s in his mid 80’s and rides around on a old Honda 4 wheel drive 4×4. A fun guy to talk to. But I have seen at my other house a pack of coyotes take down a big doe then drag it in the woods. And heck it ain’t only the big stuff. See what a raccoon will do if you get it in a spot it doesn’t want to be in. They are very fierce if they need to be. Anyway enough rambling. Time to shoot.
I have a confession. I have yet to get any air into or a pellet out of my Maximus. Life around here is always busy, moreso now that we are considering a downsize move. I was both busy and frustrated with the PCP process and put it aside. Bought a nice .22 cal.RWS 94 that I think has a mild tune. Or else the factory version is just very much nicer than anything else that I’ve shot.
Recently returning the Maximus, I bought a second pump thinking that the one that came with the Maximus was faulty but still no success. My Grandfather once told me that “a poor mechanic blames his tools.” So I have to look at the operator. Question now, is the rifle to be cocked or uncocked when filling? I read on Pyramyd that it is not to be cocked. However I recall reading that a PCP should be cocked when filling. HUH???
Also, I’m scratching about for information and finding bits and pieces. Is there anything published for the raw, green newbie about best practices for using a PCP?
Living in the state of Confusion,
GrandpaDan
Dan
If it’s a new fill from zero or even low pressure like 6 or 700 psi it does help to cock the bolt.
What happens is some times the striker/hammer will rest on the valves stem and hold it open just enough to not seat. The resivior will never fill if that is happening.
So yes. Cock the gun and try to fill it. Even so if you have more than 709 psi in the guns resivior.
Sometimes it helps to hold the trigger while you pull the bolt back and release it a couple times repeatedly. That pops the valve and helps them seat sometimes too.
GF1,
Where did you pull that “709 psi” out from? Or,… should I ask? 😉
Chris
Chris
You know why. My big fat fingers. The 9 is next to the 0. 😉
Grandpa Dan,
I have never cocked mine while filling and I have shot it plenty.
I am a bit confused. Do you still have a Maximus? Did it ever take and hold air?
As I recall,…. if new and at 0 pressure,…. cocking may be required for the first fill. Is it at 0 pressure now? Has it always been? Mine came with a charge in it.
Chris
Hi Chris,
Yes I still have the Maximus, and the Gamo 440 Hunter (first purchase that go me started) and now an RWS 94 (Cometa). No, I’ve never been able to get it to take air. Is the problem me, the pump or the rifle? Or the connection or, or, or?
I expect that if I keep fumbling about long enough that I’ll fall onto a solution. I am stubborn but don’t have a lot of frustration tolerance. So I work at a problem, then set it aside for a while returning when time allows. I *will* succeed in getting one reliable, accurate rifle, then dispose of the rest. I have too much time and money invested to quit now.
Probably would have been simpler to get a couple of outdoor cats to take care of the vermin. ;-D
Dan
Grandpa Dan,
I,.. like you,… have little tolerance for frustrations. Try cocking it and then try filling it,… especially if it as at 0 now. After cocking, maybe a (light) whack or 2 with a rubber hammer on the receiver to unstick anything that may be stuck. Some silicone oil at the fill port is always good. 2 drops,.. if you have it.
I am not familiar with the other 2 you have. Are they PCP’s? If so,… I doubt that there is any issue with the pump. Hand pump or automatic?
Maybe other’s will weigh in. I love mine and hope you get yours up and running. Got a nice 20# ground hog at 25 yards with it the other day. Clean head shot,… just where I was aiming.
Chris
Hey Chris,
My wife saw the woodchuck out by my lawn barn this afternoon. I have a salt block a few yards
away from my barn. The woodchuck was over by the salt block. I sneaked out with the Urban and cautiously peaked around the barn. He had his head down so he didn’t see me. I was only about 15 yards from him and when he raised his head up and I nailed him. He dropped like he had been hit with the Hammer and never moved an inch. They are tough little creatures and I was surprised at how quickly and humanely he was taken down. I don’t like to shoot animals unless it’s absolutely necessary, which it was in this case. I would estimate that he weighed about 10# to15# and about 18″ long. So he was big chuck.
Geo
Geo
Shot placement is key.
Where did you get him? Was there a exit hole?
He was sideways to me and I shot him through the head. I didn’t look for the exit hole but there was a pool of bxxxx so I’m sure the pellet went clean through. I tested my Urban to see how many pieces of 3/8″ thick rubber it would penetrate. An 18.13g JSB penetrated clean through three sheets and lodged halfway through the fourth. That’s over 1 1/8″ of solid rubber! That woodchuck never knew what hit him.
Geo
At least you was only 15 yards away.
Geo,
Congratulations! I knew you would get him.
Chris
Chris
Where did you aim when you got that ground hog? Side of the head, back of the head or front of the head?
GF1,
Same as Geo,….. center mass side head shot. Not sure if that is the “best” spot,… but it worked very well.
Chris
Chris,
Did your woodchuck require just a single shot? Did he move any following the shot?
My woodchuck didn’t move an inch, just shuddered a little and the tail went up. I put a second pellet into him just to be sure he was done.
Based on what I observed, I believe our PCPs shooting at 22-25 fpe are capable of taking much larger animals with a properly placed head shot.
Geo,
Yes, just one shot. He slowly turned 180 after being hit and basically laid down. It never rose up or ran. By the time I reloaded and walked the 25 yards, he was limp and just twitching, but out cold. I did a 2nd as well in the back of the head. I gave it 15 minutes and chucked him into the woods.
Chris
Chris
That’s probably the best a side head shot if that’s what your taking. Aim for the ear the next time. That usually drops them quick. That’s what I try for if I’m squirrel or rabbit hunting too.
GF1,
I will try to remember that. I was lucky to even get it at all. He spotted me twice as I walked across the living room to get the Maximus. He stopped,… I stopped.
Then, a locked steel door had to be opened. Done? No. A full glass outside door was next that also has a slight creak to it. I managed to get it open about 30 degrees and locked it open. Next,.. I had to squeeze me and the gun out.
7 feet across the deck to the corner of the house (for bracing). By this time, I was in full view of the critter, but he was busy munching away. I had the parallax reset at 25 yards before walking out the door,… but I still had to raise, steady, sight and aim. I slowly raised the gun and braced, got a sight and in the less than 5 seconds made the shot.
Oh,… and it was a steady but mild rain the whole time. With the window AC going and the rain,… I think it gave me an edge over it’s hearing ability.
Really I feel very lucky. It is not often that you pursue one in the open like that. Better to be planted, ready and waiting first.
Chris
Chris
Oh yeah they are hard to get. And I’m sure the a/c going and the rain helped.
They usually vanish just at the right time. You get the gun and still see them. Get around the house and they are gone.
Chris USA,
“A full glass outside door was next that also has a slight creak to it.”
Balistol works great for that!
shootski
GrandpaDan,
Here is a link to a good read on PCP and pumping:
/blog/2010/02/some-precharged-pneumatic-basics-explained/
B.B. has done a number of blogs that can also help just use search and look for Basic and then add terms that you want to know the basics of.
I have three question for you:
Does your pump have a gauge?
Have you seen it drop suddenly as you pump?
And, third question: if you have a pump gauge or NOT have you heard a CLICK from the fill port area letting you know the fill port has opened allowing air into the gun’s cylinder?
shootski;
also a Grandfather ;^)
Grandpa Dan,
I hope you get this sorted out. As someone who fills with a hand pump I have had a PCP that did not want to take the first fill. Cocked or uncocked made no difference, I could hear air leaking out as I ran the hand pump. The solution for my PCP was to unscrew the air tank and give it a part fill with it not connected to the firing valve. Putting the tank back on gave the valve the blast of high pressure air it needed to seat and seal. Then finishing the fill was no problem.
That experience helped me to decide that the ’10 for $10 service’ offered by Pyramid air would be a good choice for my next PCP purchase. Then they give your gun its first fill.
To get past your first fill problem you may have to find someone who can give you PCP a shot of high pressure air.
Chris
From zero fill yes it makes a difference.
Even say if you shoot down to your low fill like if you have a Marauder set up to shoot at 2000 down to 1000 psi. Even with higher fill working pressures.
I have found that the problem when people have brought the air guns over or contacted me.
What happens is if the hammer or especially if the striker adjustment that is in the hammer is adjusted to far out it always contacts the valve stem. That holds the top hat open just enough to let the air slowly leak out of the gun. Then add into the equation if they have the spring pressure up. Then the striker is definitely pushing on the valve stem.
I have bought guns that was listed as leakers or hard to fill and found exactly that problem. Then back the adjustments off and the gun is fine. I have bought guns cheap because of that. And another Gunfun1 secret out of the hat. 😉
And check this out. I was just looking through the air guns and seen this.
Check out the changes and what to expect out of this one. I like what I see.
/product/benjamin-fortitude-gen-2-pcp-air-rifle-regulated?m=4569
GF1,
Very nice. 60 shot at max. setting in .22 is pretty amazing from that skinny cylinder.
I am glad that I did not get one at first offer. All in all,…. it is a pretty ideal starter gun and a good pester to boot! I love my Maximus in .22 (now with a regulator). The Fortitude was not out and I about cried when it did come out just a short time later. I am very happy to see the improvements.
Too bad they did not go the Gen II route the first time around.
Chris
Chris
It’s just on paper now. Or should I say the computer screen.
If it all works like they say then a big thumbs up for giving the extra effort.
But of course if it’s accurate. As it goes. It’s always hard to pay the Piper. We shall see. I’m rooting for it.
GF1,
I put in an order for one, so I will give a report. They are still out of stock but should be in soon.
Don
Almost put a order in too.
But decided to wait to see how they do. Plus the available dates always seem to get pushed back.
GF1,
If the date slips I am not that concerned. If the problems persist I will be very disappointed. I will not deal with it like I did with the Wildfire, the Fortitude will be going back. So no mods for at least a week or so. I know the improved trigger on the Fortitude can be improved.
The Wildfire has been working fine since I got the 2nd gen valve. It can sit for months with no leaking.
You probably made the right choice.
Don
Don
Well that’s some good news for a change.
Glad the valve is working out.
Ok got something here.
First I will say if I tryed Co2 in the Daisy Winchester M14 I just got it would of went back if I bought it new.
As people say. OMG. The gun shot terrible.
I decided to try it on Co2 today just to see. And I even went as far as to try it on 2 other hpa bottles besides the 1200 psi regulated air Venturi bottle I automatically hooked up to the gun when I got it.
I have a 900 psi regulated hpa bottle and a 1600 psi regulated hpa bottle.
First is the 900 psi bottle didn’t perform as well either as the Air Venturi 1200 psi regulated bottle. Shots went all over but at least the gun didn’t slow up like the Co2 does.
Then came the 1600 psi regulated hpa bottle. All I can say is now we’re talking. The gun shot extremely hard. I even started getting blow back on the bolt like some semi-auto Co2 guns do. And this gun does need the bolt pulled back to shoot if Co2 or air pressure gets real low. And the gun was still as accurate as the 1200 psi regulated Air Venturi bottle.
And then I went to the Steel Storm and tryed the same experiments. Same basically happened as with the M14. But one other thing happened with the Storm was the gun sped up big time in the 6 round burst mode and was just as accurate as with the 1200 psi regulated hpa Air Venturi bottle. I can now pull the trigger repeatedly and empty 30 rounds in easy under 2 seconds. Plus it’s shooting way harder than the other lower regulated bottles and in the 6 round burst mode the pattern is tighter.
Don’t know if the guns can hold up at 1600 psi. But they sure the heck perform. I’m thinking Air Venturi hit the nail on the head with regulating their hpa bottles at 1200 psi. It’s a nice balance of working power.
But I’ll say again. I would of called the Daisy M14 junk if I would of tryed it on Co2 first when I got it. Amaizing what air pressure will do. Well and the type of air.
Now it makes me wonder what those air soft guns that run on Co2 would do on a hpa conversion.
Oh my gosh.
What did I write again.
No.
I wouldn’t of sent the Daisy Winchester M14 back if I shot it on Co2 out of the box and it performed that way. I would of thought it to be kind of normal for that gun. But you know I would of dug deeper.
Bad me or good me. But sure glad I went right to hpa on this gun. It saved me some headaches and time or never knowing. But it was fun to go backwards and learn. And yep that costed time too since I called it that. But either way found out what I need to know. As the saying goes. Think outside the box. Once you get a taste maybe that out of the box looks good. Really.
Hey all you rock and rollers!
I do not know if anyone has posted this yet, but here is a glimpse into what might be coming our way in the near future!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvl4puyJHHs
RR
Pretty cool and the semi-auto action is like the Hatsan semi-auto’s. The FX semi-auto’s are a bit different but similar.
And I like the over the barrel arrows instead of the normal way of thinking of inside the barrel.
Hmm, is that thinking outside the box or what. 🙂
GF1,
Check out their YouTube site. It is not just semi, it is 3 round burst and full auto also. Talk about slinging lead.
The over/under air cartridge arrow/slug gun is pretty nifty. The .82 big bore packs quite a wallop also.
I was wondering how the Hatsans operated. Might as well use it instead of just lose it.
Now mass is a concern for me though. Their stuff looked pretty big.
RR
I did check it out. Like I said. Looks cool.
R.R.,
Interesting on the Select Fire model! Not for hunting I think. Rock & Roll FUN might be just enough of a motivator to sell some.
But the rest of them I have only one or three questions about.
What are they practical for? I read the comments with interest: ‘OMG’, ‘WT# ‘, and the proverbial ‘Got to Have Them’ and more reactions to the size and the power levels claimed. How accurate to how far? Walk how far up hill in thin air with one and some ammo for it? Quackenbush detuned (500 FPE) the LA .458 to get a back-up shot or two. And, even before that kept the design size of his gun to a reasonable hunting length and weight.
Air Force has gone a similar more practical conservative direction with their Big Bores.
KISS and PRACTICAL; the hunters Grail!
shootski
Shootski,
I personally agree with you. I would want it to be light for ease of carry. My HM1000X is a heavy air rifle. Great for target shooting, but not for a day in the woods. Semi or selective requires more parts, adding to the weight. It also encourages Murphy’s Law to come into effect.
Multiple shots are a nice feature, but many need a bit more refinement to work properly without the chance to damage the pellet when feeding. FX has taken great strides to do just that. Their newest magazine design reflects this thinking. They have also been listening to the hunters and their air rifles have become lighter.
BB,
As I see what your 35 is doing with a defective mainspring in velocity I am wondering whether a lighter mainspring with about half of the cocking effort is not more of an advantage than 60 feet/sec increase in speed.
This gun is build for superior shooting at targets and unless you will shoot farther than 25 yards that increase in speed will not translate into more fun.
The vertical spread of your pellets is probably the result of the larger spread in velocity due to the defective mainspring.
Mine is from 11/67 and has no fingergroove on the forestock, but has checkering on the grip and the rubber endplate (orangered, hardened and slightly crumbling). It has the same accuracy as your gun. I find it a bit of a harsh shooter compared to the 27 which has almost no backlash. It has a Diana peepsight on it, which functions well on this type of rifle. It is probably a later addition. What I do not see on your rifle is a scope rail which is on mine and has classic grooves of a Diana scope rail.
Regards,
August
August,
My rifle has no rail like you said, so mounting a peep sight is not possible. And yes, I do like the easy cocking, so if the mainspring is useable I plan to leave it as it is.
Only if I have to will I change the spring.
B.B.
I just read this article about Daystate’s new barrels for long range shooting. Hopefully they will be available from Lothar Walther soon.
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/the-art-of-producing-a-great-new-airgun-barrel/
I have also been hearing about some great strides forward with the smaller caliber pellets. It is indeed a golden age for airgunning. They are finally coming into their own.
RR,
The new ART barrel is being done in conjunction with a new GCU (gun control unit) and will be the GCU 2 which is said to make 20% more power. The 2 are supposed to be a pair. I read where the new barrels are being shipped on the RW HP’s and would interchange with the standard polygonal barrels. I did confirm however the new GCU 2 electronics will not retrofit into a standard GCU,… like my Red Wolf. So maybe I could get the barrel if I wanted to.
I think the RW Safari is the only one to use both the new GCU and the new barrel. However, the barrel situation still seems to be in development, so it may be awhile before the Safari is offered. Depending on what you read and where,… information can conflict.
Chris
Chris USA,
I read the piece and found this overwhelming feeling I was being exposed to an INFOMERCIAL!
That probably sounds too harsh but I kept looking for the “BEEF” rather than the Dodge of it being all hush-hush SECRET stuff; only to understand that so far their existing barrel is the best!!!!
DID I perchance misunderstand the stated conclusion?
shootski
Shootski,
If you read the article carefully, the .177 and .22 barrels are not changing. These barrels are already available.
Now, part of this is indeed an infomercial. Daystate is trying to keep up and possibly get ahead of FX with their infomercial barrel liner insert doohickey. The good part is everybody is starting to realize that the serious airgunners over here want accuracy with our power and they are trying to deliver.
Shootski,
I take it for what it is,…. a bit of fluff and a bit of information. I think that RR’s last sentence sums it up pretty well.
It does sound as if they have settled on one design for the .25 from all of different ones they tried and are moving forwards with it. Having a DS, I might pay more attention than most about related news. The 100 yd. pellet on pellet and touching pellets at 190 yd. seems pretty unbelievable. Anything even close to that would be incredible. 1″/100 and 2″/200 (consistently) would be better than most anything out there.
Like you, I would like to see some more hard data, targets, etc. Just like something new being offered here,… the public will soon ferret out the truth. I am sure that more info./data will be forthcoming. HAM does a pretty darn good job of testing stuff, staying up on the market and providing the consumer with factual information. I would look for them to stay on top of this.
Good Day,……….. Chris
R.R.,
Power with long range accuracy is obviously good by me!
Barrels are certainly a big part of achieving that goal.
Consistent accuracy in production barrels would be a wonderful outcome; certainly achievable!
But. Can/Will the Airgun marketplace bear the cost? Or is part of the research how to achieve that at lower cost?
Time will tell if the shift to better accuracy is even noticed by the average airgun buyer.
shootski
Shootski,
I doubt if the average airgun buyer will be shooting long range. All I will hope for is that the mantra of accuracy will trickle down to the marketeers sooner than later.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
The average consumer will not be buying a Daystate, FX, RAW, etc. either. Those that do, have usually been around the block a time or two. Given a rifle is capable of 100 yards and beyond,.. I do believe that consumers (here) will pursue long range more. Still, they will never represent the “average” consumer.
I think that the accuracy model has trickled down already. It comes down to how much R&D and testing they want to do. Plus, quality tooling. FX and DS and other’s have the means to push further. And then,… you pay for it! 😉
Chris
Shootski,
Like Siraniko said, the average airgun buyer is not going to see this, at least for a long time. They are still chasing velocity.
This is for those who are saying “Yeah, this is gonna hurt my wallet but this is what I want.” You are not going to get a group of five shots at 100 yards you can cover with a quarter at Wally World.
R.R.,
“You are not going to get a group of five shots at 100 yards you can cover with a quarter at Wally World.”
I LAUGHED OUT LOUD when I read that line!
If they had used that instead of “…stacking pellets at 100…” And worse yet; “…touching at 200…”. I have occasionally stacked bullets or balls with my DAQs at 100 and had some Pinwheels at beyond 150 yards but I know exactly what those are. They are to be smiled about; but never bragged about. I vaguely remember something about how Lady Luck turns that into the very next “group” that can’t be covered by a two dollar bill!!!
shootski
Shootski,
I call it “luck of the landing”. The very same things that occur in flight and blows a group wide open,… can also be the same ones that give you an awesome group. My best ever at 100 was 7 of 10 in 13/16″ with the .25 Marauder. That was several years ago and I have never come even close to that since. More like 2″ and sometimes 3″.
Chris
Chris USA,
That was shot at 200 prone with front and rear bags on a no wind day….?
Right?
shootski
Shootski,
200? I assume you are talking about the DS testing? Prone, front and rear rested? Sure. Is prone supposed to better than a good bench rest? Bench would seem to me to be more comfortable than prone,… but then again I have never shot prone. Front and rear support in either case. I believe the rest methods were mentioned in the article.
My 100 was benched, with front on a bi-pod and the rear supported/shimmed under the AR pistol grip. My M-rod has the RAI custom kit.
Chris
Chris USA,
My bad! He Sighs deeply!
I guess most of my posts are too serious.
That was supposed to be “tongue in cheek.”
shootski
Shootski,
I did catch that,… slightly. I am too serious for my own good most of the time.
So,… bench or prone best? It seems to me to be more of a versatile skill and well suited to a sniper type situation,…. where as a convenient bench rest type scenario may not be available.
If all is ideal,…. a bench situation would seem to be preferred.
Chris
Chris,
A good, solid bench is nice. I myself prefer the prone. Both work well, most especially when zeroing. I also like shooting sitting, kneeling, prone, standing, etc. I try to keep the skills sharpened because like you said, a bench is rarely available.
RR,
Now,…. if I could just get the body to cooperate! 🙂 Bodies vary. There is people older than I that can sit on the floor like an 8 year old kid. They live the same, or much worse lives (lifestyle) than I. Same activity. I think there is some genetic stuff going on to explain the differences. I walk 3-5 miles a day at work and lift weight regularly. Today was 2 men on 250# wall sheets. That is enough exercise for me!
Chris
Chris,
LOL! My prone position isn’t as prone as it used to be.
Chris USA,
So,… bench or prone best? It depends…. On your personal objectives.
I realize that shooting benches of various designs and portability have come on the market. I don’t use them…at least for now! If I use a shooting bench it is usually of the massive fixed type. I use the bench to workup a rifle, sight and ammo combo. Thereafter most of my shooting is with a sling; offhand (standing,) prone, or kneeling. I don’t sit very often since that is covered by prone or kneeling better in my opinion and is way harder to do with skis/snowshoes on!!!. I do not own a bipod but have used my ski/treking poles as shooting sticks from time to time when hunting. I prefer prone, based on the Phsics, with improvised rests/brace in all positions if available while hunting. In Biathlon, I have no choice, it is Standing or Prone only and they say which one when.
shootski
shootski
Shootski,
Thank you. Some interesting real life perspective. I am sure that will give more than a few of us, non-serious (but think we are),… backyard shooters some new perspective.
Not to encourage you to get a big head or anything like that,….. 😉 but I think that more than a few here can sense that you are the “real deal”. I for one appreciate the advice and comments, wisdom and teachings. That is why I took your rather (poor?) attempt of subtle humor in a more serious manner.
It will be interesting to see how the 100 “stackers” and 190 “touchers” play out in the real world.
Have a good evening,……… Chris