by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Hatsan Vectis lever action PCP repeater.
This report covers:
- No historical report?
- Hatsan Vectis
- The rifle
- Synthetic
- Open sights!
- Operating pressure
- Short throw lever
- Manually uncocked
- Manual safety
- Magazines
- Silencer and barrel
- Trigger
- Summary
No historical report?
You may be surprised that this is Friday and there is no historical report, but there is a good reason. I am so backed up with new products to report that I’ve decided to suspend the historical reports for a little while so I can get caught up. Don’t worry, they aren’t going away and I will get back to them as soon as I can.
Hatsan Vectis
Today I’m starting the report on the Hatsan Vectis lever action repeating PCP. Hatsan sent this rifle to me immediately after the SHOT Show, because I thought it is different enough that you need to know about it right away. The rifle I am testing is a .25 caliber and it’s a 10-shot repeater.
Lever action precharged airguns are not new. They have existed for many decades, starting with the Korean-made Career 707 that first entered the U.S. in 1995. The Seneca Sumatra 2500 rifle and Seneca Sumatra 2500 carbine that have some ties to the 707 are still being sold. But the Vectis is a different air rifle altogether and this report will highlight those differences.
The Vectis comes in three calibers — .177, .22 and .25. I specifically asked to test a .25 because of the rapidly growing interest in that caliber. Though it has been around since 1905, the .25 or 6.35mm as it is known around the world didn’t really take off until modern and efficient precharged pneumatics were chambered for it, less than two decades ago. Now it is widely embraced by hunters and by those who are just getting into precharged airguns because, dare I say — bigger is better.
The rifle
The Vectis is a bargain PCP. At $360 it’s not quite in the price-point category, but it’s not that far from it. And it represents a different approach to precharged repeaters. For starters, it’s light — very light for a repeating PCP. Weighing just over 7 lbs., it is also slim and even short, at 41.3 inches overall. However, its 17.7-inch barrel delivers up to 40 foot-pounds in the .25 caliber I am testing.
Synthetic
To be so light requires shedding weight at every turn, and the outside of this airgun is entirely synthetic. Don’t think that you will wait for the same model to come out in wood, because it probably won’t happen. That would be like asking for a Corvette with a steel body — it kinda defeats the purpose!
The Vectis is also slim through the action and forearm. That, coupled with the light weight and short length, make it a very handy air rifle.
Open sights!
Yes, indeed! The Vectis comes with open sights! It’s almost as if someone is listening to what airgunners are saying! Up front is a post and bead with a large aperture in the rear. The rear sight adjusts in both directions with click detents that are both audible as well as tactile. Both sights fold down flat against the top of the rifle and both can be removed via a single thumbscrew.
Oddly — and I am serious — both front and rear sights have fiberoptics built in! This is the first aperture sight I have seen with a green dot on either side of the peep hole! Holding the rear sight up to the eye, it seems like the dots can’t work, but when the sight is mounted on the rifle (look at the picture above), the rear peep is far enough from your eye that you can see the dots. I think any aiming precision is out the window with these sights, though. I may try them at close range, but I am skeptical.
Yes, the peep sight does have two green fiberoptic dots — one on either side of the hole. It doesn’t seem right until you look at it from the distance it will be used. Then the dots make sense.
The top of the rifle has a long scope rail that’s both 11mm and Picatinny, combined. That has become a sort of trademark on Hatsan rifles. Naturally I will mount a scope because the rifle seems ideally suited for one. I think, given the light weight and small size of the rifle, the scope has to compliment that. We’ll see.
Operating pressure
The non-removable 165cc air reservoir fills to 200 bar (2900 psi). That’s good enough for up to 35 shots in .177, 30 in .22 and 25 in .25 caliber. I will test that when I look at velocity. An on-board gauge tells you the status of the fill at all times.
Short throw lever
The Vectis lever has a very short throw. That means it’s quick between shots. If you have ever worked a lever action firearm you may understand that. If not it won’t mean much until you experience it. The thing about a precharged rifle, when compared to a lever action firearm, is the PCP lever has to cock the striker spring. In a powerful PCP that spring can be very stiff, which makes the lever hard to work. Think about cocking a Daisy Red Ryder for a moment. Most people know that cocking a Red Ryder while it is held to their shoulder is a difficult to nearly impossible task. The Vectis lever can be worked with the rifle on the shoulder. This will be a boon to hunters, no doubt.
The Vectis lever has a short throw.
Manually uncocked
The Vectis can be manually uncocked. A lever in the trigger mechanism can be pushed in while pulling the trigger when the lever is down and it will override the sear so the striker is no longer caught. Then you just raise the lever and the gun returns to being uncocked. This can be done quietly, to avoid spooking game.
Push that lever (arrow) up (or down, in this picture) while pulling the trigger and the Vectis can be uncocked.
One thing to remember about uncocking the rifle is that when the lever is returned to the locked position, the bolt goes forward and pushes a pellet from the magazine into the breech. You can uncock the action, but if you leave a pellet in the bore the rifle is still loaded. In fact it is more dangerous because there is no easy way to see that it is loaded. If you were to cock the lever again and pull the trigger, a pellet would shoot out!
Manual safety
There is no sense having a rapid lever if the safety comes on every time the rifle is cocked. The Vectis safety is manual, allowing the shooter to determine when it should be applied.
Magazines
The Vectis comes with two circular magazines. In .177 the mag holds 14 pellets, 12 in .22 and 10 in .25. There is also a single-shot tray that comes with the rifle. The magazines sit above the top of the receiver when installed, so two-piece rings are required, unless you use a scout scope.
Silencer and barrel
The barrel sits inside a baffled shroud that swells at the muzzle. So it should be quiet. I’ll comment on that when I do the velocity test.
The barrel is choked for greater accuracy. A choke squeezes all pellets to the same uniform size before they exit the muzzle, and that aids their consistency.
Trigger
The Vectis has the Quattro adjustable trigger. It’s two-stage and I will be adjusting it for my report.
Summary
The Vectis is a precharged repeater with a silencer, choked barrel, two magazines and a single shot tray. It promises a lot for a very nice price. We already know that Hatsan can make an accurate barrel; have they made your next PCP? I guess we shall all see very soon.
B.B.,
Looks like the rear sight can be mounted closer and in reverse in case you don’t want to see the fiber optic dots. Considering the magazine capacity, looks like you can shoot two magazine full before requiring a top up to keep the pressure consistent. I mean, for safety who would want to refill a PCP with a half filled magazine installed? This looks like a potential winner if accurate.
Siraniko
You beat me to it. I was going to suggest that the front and rear sights both look like they are folding BUIS mounted to the rail, so should both be reversible. Of course, all the windage adjustments will be backwards.
On a related note, I wonder if the included sights are the right height to co-witness a red dot on a riser like you would use on an AR15?
Chanman,
LOL! I just knew somebody was going to go there! If these will not co-witness you can put sights on here that will.
Siraniko and Chanman,
Bad news boys. These sights have glowy thingy dots on both sides. Go to PA and take a close look at their pictures. The good news is you should be able to swap them out without any difficulty.
RidgeRunner,
Well there is always lampblack to darken the sights and BB’s usual trick of making the target brightly illuminated to overcome the glowy sights. On the other hand whoever purchases the rifle does have the option of changing the sight to whatever he/she chooses.
Siraniko
RidgeRunner & Siraniko,
I had a friend who was former Army tell me that peep (aperture) sights didn’t “work” for him.
However, he said he could shoot open sights just fine.
So, I asked him how he was using the aperture sights?
It turned out he was trying to line them up as one would with open sights
,,,exactly the way they are not meant to be used!
(I explained to him that he should put his eye close to the aperture
and let his eye naturally center the top of the front post without conscious thought
yet he remained skeptical. *shrugs* They work great for me! =>)
It appears as if this rear sight is trying to encourage just what my friend was attempting
…the incorrect use of the rear aperture.
I agree with you both; either black out the dots, or replace the sight. =D
Take care & happy shooting to you,
dave
Siraniko,
As good sights are not that expensive, I would package these and place them in my spare parts box and replace these with flip up sights that do not glow.
very different, the uncocking feature is, well we will have to see.
If it turns out to be a real safety issue, they might drop that feature if the gun stays in production.
While this one will probably not be my next PCP, I hope SIG gets the new .22 into your hands soon.
That is the one that is on my next short list.
I hope they get it out before the Texas Airgun Show.
If not, hopefully they will bring a sample to shoot.
Since you say that the rifle is both light and short, I was wondering about the length of pull.
Rdstern,
The LOP is 14.25.
B.B.
B.B.,
I am looking forwards to this review. I have always admired Hatsan’s innovations.
The opens are interesting. The leverage advantage with the lever as opposed to a bolt makes sense. Too bad they did not opt for the std. Foster, but instead went the probe route. I like the weight. The price is good. Overall, I like it.
Good Day to you and to all,………. Chris
Chris USA,
Knowing Hatsan’s record they would use a probe, but they would provide that probe to be readily attached to a Foster fitting for ease of use.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Yes, there is a Foster on the other end of the probe.
B.B.
Chris
My Hatsan Bullmaster uses a probe and is set up with a male Foster fitting. It’s really no big deal. It works just as easy.
GF1,
Just one more gadget to keep track of. From what I see, the fill port is under barrel and capped on this one. So why not just fit a Foster and be done with it? No big deal, but Foster seems to be the industry standard anymore. Hatsan innovates so many other things that I am surprised that they have not come on board with Fosters.
Chris
Chris
Yep it would be easier if the gun came with the Foster fitting.
Maybe one day we will see all the manufacturers go that way.
B.B.,
I usually do not like the “black rifle” look, but I very much like the look of this Hatsan Vectis. It looks like something out of a Sci-Fi movie like Alien. And everybody likes a nice lever-action.
Michael
BB,
Most interesting. I do not see me rushing out to get one for myself, but this could be a good woods hunting rifle. A short, light, lever action carbine works well in rough country. If it turns out to be interesting, this could be a real hot seller for Hatsan.
It sure is nice to see companies starting to listen to what the customer wants. The competition for the greenback is a serious motivator. Of course, just like everything else out there on the market we have to start doing our homework more and not get sucked in with the flash and glitz. The “latest” is not necessarily the “greatest”.
BB
I’m looking for a comparison between this and the AT44 pump action. The PA requires a very deliberate complete and forceful stroke in both directions to ensure the mag cycle is complete not just a quick fore aft stroke. How does the lever feel in action on this one?
Will a quick flick do it or does it take a slower forceful deliberate action to make sure everything functions without jamming up things.
I’m beginning to think we may have reached a plateau in airgun technology with the modern PCP and all we can expect for a while is refinements and diversity like this and the pump action or semi-auto. But I think the replica market will have a long run and only get better.
Bob,
Before I can comment on that I need to shoot this rifle. The magazine needs to be factored in.
B.B.
B.B.
When you de-cock the gun the pellet stays in the chamber. When you recook the gun, why doesn’t a new pellet want to enter the already full chamber?
Steel Corvette body? No, but aluminum or carbon fiber is very possible. Do ant airguns use real carbon fiber in their construction?
Thanks,
-Yogi
That’s the first thing I thought of when Tom mentioned the decocking lever. Unless it can’t be double loaded like some of the other airguns.
Yogi,
I thought this was obvious but I see now that it isn’t. The bolt pushes the pellet into the rear of the barrel. That’s what I called the “chamber,” though on a rifle like this, there really isn’t a chamber.
If you lever the gun again with the magazine still in placed, the bolt tries to push a second pellet to the same place as the first one. If there is enough leverage, it will do it and the new pellet pushes the first pellet further up the barrel.
But, if you have removed the magazine because you wanted the rifle to be unloaded, the bolt has nothing to push, so the first pellet remains where it was. The gun is still loaded, even though the magazine has been removed.
Does that clear it up, or did I not understand your question?
B.B.
So most people will shoot 2 pellets at once!
Great idea…?
-Y
Yogi,
If they make that mistake, yes, the gun will shoot two pellets. I have done that many times. However, if they make the mistake I was talking about, they may shoot the gun unintentionally.
This is no laughing matter. My first sergeant went to the arms room to get the company shotgun for a guard. He pumped the action, then removed all the shells manually. That was backward. He should have first removed the shells then pumped the action and checked the chamber visually. But he was a first sergeant and he knew all about guns — right? So he just pointed the gun at the ceiling and pulled the trigger blowing a hole in the ceiling!
B.B.
Sounds like a dishonorable discharge to me, LOL.
So will the gun shoot three pellets? If so, who needs an air shotgun? Boy sounds like fun, to see how many pellets can be fired at once.
Break barrels for me, one at a time.
-Y
This is sounding like a very handy rifle to have i.e. fast follow-up shots if needed. If I owned one though I would probably just waste one pellet in the dirt rather than de-cock. Especially after I’ve double loaded it a few times.
Yogi
All fun and dandy until you start stacking pellets in the barrel and realise you got the barrel jamned with pellets.
Semi-auto pellet guns are good for that. The second FX Monsoon I had did that. Lucky for the smooth twist barrel I was able to push the pellets out the breech end of the barrel.
Sorry,
But it would be great fun to see how many pellets you can stack and still have them all exit the barrel. Maybe we can get B.B. to try this in his testing, LOL.
-Y
Yogi
I would say round lead balls would have a better chance then pellets.
Pellets probably won’t make it out the barrel. Especially with a rifled barrel.
What happens is the head of one pellet is getting smashed in the back of the skirt on the other pellet. I’m thinking the rifling in the barrel probably helps the pellets get stuck also.
All I know is that is no fun getting jamned pellets out of a barrel.
30 fpe of energy should be able to “blast” at least 2 maybe three pellets out of the barrel. Maybe you want to use harder lead pellets or “lead free” pellets?
-Y
Yogi
30 fpe might make the pellets get stuck in the barrel harder.
And don’t know what would happen with the harder pellets.
All I know is that’s one experiment I’m not going to try.
If the Vectis is accurate I think it will appeal to a lot of people – especially since it is available in all three calibers. Great to see all the innovations being offered and at reasonable prices.
One feature the designers should consider is a “pellet in the chamber/ rifle cocked” indicator. On my HW100, the safety can’t be put on if the rifle is not cocked and the magazine will not advance if a pellet has been chambered and the side-lever operated preventing double-feeds. These two features give a clear “cocked/loaded” status which I like very much.
Happy Friday all!!
Hank
The de-cocking needs three steps. The trigger needs to be pulled concurrently with the sear disconnect tab while the hammer is lowered with lever. Dbl feeding is a common issue, outside of starring down the bore:(, I like what I read about the HW 100, Its not clear if my air guns are loaded or not without checking, a process I slow down for.
One thing I like about using an external SSG on the Prod and Bandit is the clear visual indicator, cocked or not.
So those kinds of features appeal to me, the styling on this not my cup of pee. Hope its accurate.
Best Rob
Going off subject here but figured some pcp owners would be interested.
And as it goes so far so good. And as it the saying goes. “knock on wood”
But something has happened the last several days. My China hpa pcp compressor has picked up in speed when filling my guns. It’s filling even faster.
A good thing yes. But maybe not. We also have a saying with race cars. “They run their best before they blow up”. I hope not.
But it is what it is. I’m going to say it’s just breaking in more. We will see.
GF1
It looks like they just removed the head from the standard low pressure compressor and installed a high pressure unit in its place on top. Just to let you know my low pressure compressor started speeding up also. Almost like a governor quit working although I don’t think it has one. It happened abruptly so I don’t think it is the result of breaking in. An air leak, internal or external is more likely but would be hard to hear when running. A leak check would be necessary.
On the flip side it does appear to be filling up the two attached storage tanks faster so I have not looked into it, just crossed my fingers in hope. I’ll let you know if anything comes up with it.
Bob
Mine has been gradually speeding up filling the guns the last 3 days. Not the rpm of the motor. It still sounds like it’s spinning the same.
And my thought is if it was from a air leak that the fill time of the gun would be slower not faster.
As of now I’m still not sure why it’s filling faster. But I’m happy. I just hope it stays going.
GF1,
It would not hurt to check the line voltage coming into your house. It should be 240 VAC +/- 5% or 228-252 VAC. At your wall outlets the reading should be 114-126 VAC. Anything above or below those readings can cause problems with some electric motors and excessive voltage can damage electronic components in your appliances. An amp/watt meter is a good tool to have to check motors. Once the motor starts and is up to speed, if the amps or watts read less than that specified on the motor name/specification plate, it is usually good.
Bugbuster
Bugbuster
Yep deal with that stuff at work. We have 3 phase also at work.
And again. No change in motor rpm.
I still have a feeling that the 3 compression seals are starting to conform and seat better. That’s why the faster fill times with same rpm I’m thinking.
Interesting. I sold most of my firearms before we moved to the big island of Hawaii. When you move here, you have to load up all your firearms (black powder excluded, and yes, I have an old Remington replica revolver in 36 caliber), and take them in to the police department and register them by serial number. If you don’t o this and are caught with unregistered firearms, you are in for a world of hurt. Hence, I sold most of my firearms, just keeping a select few. But, one that I did keep, is my Marlin Model 1895 lever action. It shoots .357 magnum and .38 special. Not a gun that’s fantastic at anything, but a very handy carbine that shoots 125 grain jacketed hollow points quite well. Back when I was shooint NRA Hunter Pistol and IHMSA 200 meter metallic Silhouette matches I had thought about also getting into Cowboy matches. Never did, but I like that little carbine. And, it would make a fine piece for self defense if needed. And, no, I’m not paranoid about this. It already happened to me once. A home invasion. But, I used an ancient Dan Wesson .357 magnum that time (no shots fired).
Lever action rifles are certainly not as popular as they once were. But, for shorter range work, I still like them. It will be interesting to see how this one stacks up for accuracy.
Now for an unrelated question. Both for Tom, and the many fans here. In the area of break barrel rifles, springers or gas spring, I have a question. I’m glad that loudness (or quietness) of these airguns has become an important feature. In the lower price levels (say, under $200), which one(s) are the quietest? I’m thinking about maybe buying a .22 caliber break barrel. I am NOT a great break barrel shooter. But, if I had a quiet one, I could then devote more time to shooting and maybe get better. Crosman has their NP, NP2, SBD, and the Redtail, which I think is maybe unique for them. Gamo has their Whisper models, and I don’t know the names of many others from other makers. Beeman Quiet Tec etc. I was thinking about a Crosman Prowler in .22, and have seen db ratings of about 88. I have an acre and a super safe backstop (a rock wall about 4 feet high, 4 feet thick, and 15 feet wide), and super good neighbors, but don’t want to push the envelope, so quote is always better.
Birdmove,
I think the Gamo Whisper is your best bet. I know they are reasonably quiet, quite accurate and reasonably powerful. The Nitro Pistons are also very quiet and accurate, but if their barrels get loose there is no easy way to tighten them.
B.B.
Tom, are you talking about the sleeve that goes over the barrel to the muzzle?
Birdmove,
I think it’s how Crosman attaches the breechblock to the action forks using a pin instead of using but and bolt that he is referring to.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Yes. That’s correct.
B.B.
Birdmove
Try a HW30s. I think you will be satisfied in many ways.
Birdmove,
Though they cost more, I would most definitely second Gunfun1 about the HW30S. The quality is top shelf and it is quiet, smooth and very easy to shoot.
If you just have to have a Gamo, you might want this.
/product/gamo-swarm-maxxim-multi-shot-air-rifle?m=4310#8325
If you think multi-shot is not for you, look at it’s single shot brother.
/product/gamo-hornet-maxxim-igt-cat-air-rifle?m=3998#7639
These are both the same rifle and have the latest and greatest trigger Gamo offers.
Thanks, Tom!! I do have a Gamo or two on my radar. The Wildcat Whisper and the Raptor Whisper, in .22, look pretty good.
A timely blog for me. Just received my Vectis from Pyramyd AIR but had to send it back because I was unable to charge it with air. Hopefully the next one will work good. I love lever action rifles and am looking forward to testing this one myself.
Willyaimright
I believe most PCPs rely on pressure in the reservoir tank to help keep the outlet valve closed. If the pressure gets too low the striker or hammer will overcome the valve spring and dump the air pressure and prevent it from filling until the hammer/striker is cocked back off the valve. Was the pressure in the reservoir at zero when you tried to fill it? A good indication it may have been open and bleeding off filling air.
Has anybody ever found another reason for a PCP failure to fill ?
Bob,
Leaks at the gauge port and at the Foster are 2 that I can think of. Mostly the Foster. I do believe B.B. had one that stuck awhile back. Of course, there is a difference between a slow leak down and not being able to fill at all. Heck, any O-ring that stays under pressure can be a slow leak point. Or, a valve seat when that applies.
As I recall, that is one reason for the anti-bounce systems. It holds the hammer off the valve stem and also reduces hammer bounce,….. as I recall…….. 😉
Chris
Chris
I agree with you. Leaks would cause a valve to eventually open but not really stop it from filling once closed again.
I don think an O ring seal could leak fast enough to prevent filling. A Foster stuck open would probably let it fill but bleed off immediately on disconnect and be pretty obvious. Stuck closed would prevent filling for sure but how common would that be and you would have a pump lock up ASAP.
If the outlet valve was stuck open and not caused by the hammer it would be a total fail to fill for sure. Perhaps a broken valve, spring or valve seat? Or a bit of metal stuck in it from the initial build if it failed to fill from the get go
Bob M,
One additional typical/simple diagnostic check to add for PCP/CO2/Pump guns is: If the fault is in the valve being held open by some means or failure you should be able to (with the breech closed) hear or feel air leaking out of the barrel during every pump stroke or all the time.
shootski
Shootski
Good point. That would be the best way to verify it. Would be easy to do using a compressor or bottle to fill it. You could just stuff something like a Q tip down the barrel and watch it blow out if you were using a hand pump.
Hatsan is my favorite manufacturer, they seem innovative and I like the look, which I think that fact alone indicates I’m the youngest person here by a significant amount.
They aren’t high end but I have fun shooting my hatsans.
I’m curious, is the muzzle brake/compensator I’m not sure what to call it on a airgun made of plastic or metal? Also what’s it do on an airgun? I know hatsan has an air stripper for some of their guns that redirect turbulent air away from the pellet, but I don’t know if that’s the same thing.
Drucocu,
An air stripper is just that. It does nothing to silence the report, but may redirect the sound some and is supposed to divert turbulent air from the pellet which may disrupt it’s flight.
Moderators/silencers/whatever you want to call them,… often incorporate a stripping effect which then turns that air pressure back into a shroud and at the same time silences the report. No shroud? The silencer can absorb some of the air flow/sound. From what I have seen, it is quite the mix of function and form with many variations.
On a related note, I have a Maximus, Hunter version in .22 and did just the muzzle cap, a proper air stripper ($35) and a baffle insert unit ($5) that is meant to go inside a “silencer” housing. The insert unit did best, the air stripper was crap. The muzzle cap was ok. The insert is on and will stay on the Maximus.
Bottom line,.. they all reduce sound a bit. Some,… better than others. Anything that absorbs air pressure, then allows that pressure to be released at a slower/reduced/delayed rate,…. is going to help reduce the sound/report.
Chris
Drucocu,
On muzzle brakes,… I will defer to the Military folks here. More than a few. From what I gather, the blast is redirected equally to both sides. This would appear to offer a stripping effect and may alter muzzle flash to some degree. It should for sure offer some sound/report (re)-direction, making it more difficult for a enemy from knowing what direction the shot was shot from. On a hand held powder rifle, it may reduce the muzzle “jump” as well.
“Youngest person”,…. you say? So? We could use some younger folks here to keep us ol’ cusses up to speed on the younger generation. Then again,… stick around and you may find that “we” can share a new thing or two with you! 😉
Chris
Barrel Attachments
Muzzle breaks, flash hiders, compensators, air stripers and sound amplifiers (Airsoft). Not to mention adapters of all sorts for attachments and some of them even have a dual purpose like a forked silencer adapter that can do a few jobs too.
A Muzzle Break is something that usually has a lot of small holes to disperse exiting gasses and flame and may also help disperse some sound as a side benefit.
A lot of them have a strategic design pattern of the holes, either in placement or angle drilled to also act as some other devices at the same time such as a compensator. They may be designed for a specific firearm to enhance performance or added as a general multi-purpose shooting enhancement for many applications.
A Compensator directs exiting gasses to fight off (compensate for) muzzle jump, recoil or fight off rifle twisting that is the reverse effect of twisting a bullet as it goes down the rifled barrel. Compensators can also be designed to perform a single purpose or more depending on their design too.
Take a tank barrel for example. Big or stacked openings on either side will help redirect gas and smoke to the sides and push on them to force the barrel forward fighting against recoil too. It also helps keep the blast from disturbing the ground and clouding up everything out front.
A flash hider generally is just designed to disperse the fireball blast quickly so the enemy wont have time to locate you, theoretically. They ‘usually’ have multiple elongated slots . It also helps prevent being blinded by the fireball at night and they too may have additional benefits thrown into their design like the rest. Some slots are missing on the bottom to prevent disturbing the ground in front of the muzzle, counteract muzzle lift or offset to help counteract rifle twist.
Multi purpose designs make it very hard to classify many of them into a single category, especially anti-gunners. 😉
Airgun air stripers as described above help stabilize pellets leaving the barrel and may have a other unintended side benefits. An Airsoft sound amplifier is usually nothing more than a megaphone that looks menacing.
If you understand what is going on when a rifle if fired you can usually just examine the device to figure out what each port is designed for or imaging what it would do to affect the outcome of an exiting fire flash and pressurized gasses.
Most of these devices were designed for firearms and may have little to no effect or use on airguns other than to look cool with the possible exception of high powered PCPs. Especially the big bores. The flash hider?
Bob M
Birdmove—-I think that you have a Marlin 1894 carbine. the 1895 is chambered for the 45-70 cartridge. ——Ed
Just for ducks I will give an update on my Daisy Model H bb gun. I have been following B.B.’s work on the Model 12 the guns are very similar. I think the only difference between the two is his sheet metal compression tube is welded and mine has a sheet metal plate soldered over the seam.
My gun has just about been shot to death. It went through three generations of my friends family and shows its age. The leather seal on the plunger was all but gone on mine. See the arrow in the photo below.
I will need to do quite a bit of work to get this gun to a reliable shooter, it may not be worth the effort. I will say it has the least amount of parts as any gun I remember. As I said earlier the sight was welded on (probably by me in the 1060’s) and had to be cut off to disassemble the gun.
There are three items that are necessary to get the gun working:
First I need to get the end cap out of the plunger head so I can replace the leather seal. So far I have not had any luck. I don’t know if it is pressed in or screwed in I did not find a pin holding the cap to the head. I think it is pressed in as it does not have any way to turn it other than grabbing it with pliers. I have been trying to pry it out with no luck. I have soaked it in liquid wrench and tried heat. No luck so far. It would probably be easier to make a new head as the hole where the pin that holds the head to the sheet metal body is wallered out quite a bit. I may drill a hole down to the plunger head through the end cap and thread it so I can screw in a bolt to pull the cap off.
Second the plate soldered to the sheet metal over the compression tube is loose at the muzzle end as can be seen in the picture. I do not think the compression tube leaks so the gun would work without this effort but may not last long with much cocking and shooting.
Third the gun screw holding the cocking lever on is missing and was replaced with a bolt that was not a good fit. This is the easy part.
Now I have caught up to the same place B.B. is with the Daisy Model 12. My Model H is so worn out that it may just be a wall hanger in the future. I will see what B.B. comes up with.
Don
Don,
That’s a beaut. I hope I can figure out how this thing comes apart, too.
B.B.
Benji-Don,
Nice effort Don…but It’s a Daisy! ?????? Are we going to call you Daisy-Don in the future? Lol!
Also, “As I said earlier the sight was welded on (probably by me in the 1060’s) and had to be cut off to disassemble the gun.”. Now 1060 was a good year but you had welding gear back then!
Good luck with the Old Girl!
shootski
Shootski,
It feels like 1060 sometimes. A Benjamin 312 was my first pellet gun it was tops in accuracy and dependability. I will stick with Benji. There was a Daisy and a Rosie at about the same time. Lol
Don
Daisy-Don, Daisy-Don, hmmm… It does roll off the tongue nicely. I think Shootski’s on to something. 😉
Don
Pretty simple gun. But with design problems adds up to no fun I’m thinking.
Hopefully you will get it going.
GF1,
Yep my Model H is wore out. I would expect poor accuracy. It is the tinkering to get it working that I enjoy. I would grab my Red Ryder to fend off a pack of feral cans.
Don
Let us know what you come up with.
Don,
Nice. I would look to something synthetic for a seal. Maybe (something) along this line?
/product/beeman-gs-1000-950-piston-seal?a=7954
Heck,… even a brake drum piston seal that you could get from an auto parts store. They do,.. still make them don’t they? 🙂 Everything is caliper and throw away anymore. Not much rebuilding going on.
That could maybe slip/stretch over that end pin? Or make something. If you go leather,…. I do admire your fortitude. 😉 The TX200 seal I put in the 499 with the Red Ryder spring had to be sanded/polished down a few thousandths on the OD. Best wishes.
Chris
Chris U,
I think leather would be the way to go. The compression tube does not look perfectly round or smooth. Leather can conform to the tube and will last a long time. My dad used to talk about using belt leather on a model T to patch a bad rod bearing and it would last for quite a few miles.
If the tube was round and polished that piston seal would be great.
Don
Got something in my mind that I thought I would bring up.
We have had conversations in the past about moisture in pcp guns.
Something occurred to me. If that gun was exsposed to very cold weather for a period of time, would it affect the guns valve that supply’s air to the barrel? If that moisture was in the right place like on the valves top hat seat, maybe a slow leak or rapid leak down through the barrel could occur.
The reason I bring it up is we had several days of 0°F and colder the other day. I wasn’t outside shooting so don’t know. But I was shooting out of a warm breezeway.
I’m just wondering if moisture could be a problem in that sense. In warm weather probably not. But real cold maybe yes.
Gunfun1,
I have had my DAQs out in really cold conditions for days at a time with no ice problems. Of course I have used dive shop air exclusively for years. I did hunt in cold conditions with them when I had used an AXOR hand pump; but that was a few years back. I have never read of anyone having an ice issue on any of the various big bore forums.
I really don’t believe in the water/moisture issue. I believe most of the moisture gets shot out especially with the way the DAQs airtube and valve is designed. Plus the DAQ hammer is really heavy and the springs give some folks royal fits on cocking until they learn the proper technigue. Now on my insulated hydration tube from my backpack water bladder; I learned long ago to blow the water back into the bladder to keep the water from freezing into the tube and bite-valve!
Certainly not proof that it couldn’t happen but that is my experience.
shootski
Shootski
If it’s getting shot out that means it’s going past the top hat valve seat. And it’s in there and has to go somewhere.
I haven’t had it happen but also I haven’t had a PCP out in 0°F or colder for any amount of long periods.
And it doesn’t take much to get the top hat sealing surface to leak. Like dirt particles and such. I wonder if the Canadian readers ever have it happen.
Speaking of weather. We had just the right temperatures overnight and this morning for freezing rain. We got a little over a 1/16″ all over everything outside. Makes nice little ice explosions when you hit something. Real fun with my semi-auto Hatsan Bullmaster.
Gunfun 1,
Hope the ice just stays pretty!
On the topic of ice…I found a link that may help you understand ice under high pressure and then under steep pressure drops during the shot cycle. It is graphic heavy and almost no MATH formulas.
https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/60170/freezing-point-of-water-with-respect-to-pressure
I’m out West and we are getting a great period of snow! This has been a really great winter for skiiers. Alta in UTAH has gotten over 128″ of the Greatest Snow on Earth since January 15th.
There is a place just to the West of Bear Lake called the Sinks and it is surrounded by high mountains in the Wasatch Range that record the coldest temperatures in all of North America. I have hunted that area and a local taught me to set camp 2/3rds up the side of the mountain to avoid freezing to death in the early morning when temperatures can easily reach values below -65°F or -59°C at the sinks’ bottom, yikes!
shootski
Shootski
Yep seen your getting a bunch of snow out that way.
And got a tip for those that are getting pure ice and freezing rain. Try a pair of old socks over your shoes if you need to go out to take your dog out or change your targets and such. The socks will actually try to stick to the ice. Works great. Just went out and changed my target and put some cans out for the Bullmaster. No slipping at all. And mind you I like to broke my neck before I put the socks over my shoes. Slippery as heck out.
And as I read through your link it looks like if pressure increases it’s more likely that water will turn to ice.
Shootski
Here check this out.
Here is the technical note.
Aqua Environment Inc drw 1452
rev. 990729; 090805PS
TECHNICAL NOTE
AVOIDING REGULATOR FREEZE-UP
When air or other gas expands it tends to get cold. If there is moisture present in the flow it
may freeze. The ice may then block flow paths resulting in valve or regulator freeze-up.
Cooling comes from two sources. First heat energy of the gas is converted to velocity energy as
gas moves through the valve. When there is a pressure drop of more than two to one, say from
5000 to 2500 PSI or from 50 to 25 PSI, the resultant temperature drop can be as high as 50
to 100 degrees F. This effect is seen with all gases. When the gas slows after passing through
the valve velocity energy is converted back to heat energy and the temperature returns to its
original value.
The second cooling effect is dependent on the type of gas and the pressures involved. It is
sometimes referred to as JT cooling. Air expanding from 5000 to 2500 PSI will cool about 60
degrees F and this drop is in addition to the velocity cooling effect. The temperature drop caused
by JT cooling remains after the gas slows downstream. JT cooling for air expanding from 50 to
25 PSI is negligible. JT cooling for helium gas is also negligible for pressures up to 5000 PSI
and above. JT cooling for natural gas is greater than air and can reach 100 degrees F for
expansion from 3000 PSI to 1000 PSI.
Consequently all gases will cool sufficiently to cause freezing when expanding from high
pressures. Natural gas is most troublesome because it cools the most and is most likely to
contain moisture. Air too can cause freezing if not very dry.
Although Aqua Environment Co. Inc. does not guarantee or warrant that valves or regulators will
not freeze-up, a number of precautions can be taken to help avoid regulator or valve freeze-up.
They include:
a. CHANGING DRYING AGENTS MORE OFTEN. Manufactures of drying agents such as molecular
sieve, alumina, or silica-gel rate their agents as ability to adsorb x pounds of moisture per
pound of agent. where x is typically from 0.1 to 0.2. Manufacturers of air or gas drying
systems in turn use these numbers in recommending filter change intervals. In some cases
more frequent changes are required. Loss of dryer effectiveness can result from:
i. Less than perfect operation of compressor moisture separators resulting in liquid
water being carried over to the drying agent
ii. Operation of compressor separators at less than rated pressure resulting in more
water vapor carrying over to the drying agent.
iii. Channeling of air through the drying agent caused by vibration, motions from
travel, or improper packing of the agent.
iv. Operation of separators or the drying agent at higher temperatures. (Typically
every 10 degrees F rise in temperature will halve the life of the drying agent.)
Typically when a new drying canister is installed, the air will exit very dry (dew point of -65F
or better) even if some or all of the above problems exist. However, if problems do exist the
life of the agent will be greatly shortened.
b. INSURE THE COMPRESSOR MOISTURE SEPARATOR IS OPERATING PROPERLY. Insure there is
no excessive vibration at the separator or filter. Liquid water can get past the separator in the
form of mist if water level in the separator is too high. Excessive vibration or flow velocities
in the separator can cause water droplets to become intrained in the air.
c. OPERATE THE SEPARATOR AND DRYER AT AS LOW A TEMPERATURE AS PRACTICABLE. This
may involve removing them from a hot compressor room or providing enough aftercooler tubing
to return the gas to near room temperature before entering the separator and dryer. Every 10
degree F rise in separator temperature doubles the amount of water vapor carried over to the
filters and drying agents. The purpose of a separator is to remove liquid water but it can not
remove water vapor. Also every 10 to 30 degree rise reduces the drying agents ability to hold
water by one half.
d. USE A FLOW ORIFICE EITHER UPSTREAM OR DOWNSTREAM OF THE REDUCING REGULATOR.
This reduces the cooling effect at the regulator since some of the pressure drop occurs at the
orifice. When using a regulator to limit fill pressure to a tank use an orifice upstream of the
regulator sized somewhat smaller than the orifice in the regulator. Consult Aqua Environment
for details regarding the best use of orifices.
e. USE AN UPSTREAM FILTER. An upstream filter with a larger flow area such as the Aqua
Environment model 1397 tee filter helps keep smaller regulator filters clean. They also
facilitate easy maintenance since they are more accessible than filters in a regulator.
f. USE A BACK PRESSURE REGULATOR DOWNSTREAM OF THE SEPARATOR AND DRYER VESSELS
TO MAINTAIN AS HIGH A PRESSURE AS PRACTICABLE. The higher the pressure in the separator
the more water is removed before the gas reaches the drying agent thus increasing its life.
Similarly the drying agent is more effective with higher pressures..
If regulator or valve freeze-up does occur check the valve for internal moisture or corrosion.
Corrosion indicates there has been excessive moisture. If internal filters (sintered bronze
filters) appear corroded or dirty replace them or preferably replace the entire valve cartridge.
If the regulator internal filter becomes partially clogged pressure drop and freeze-up can occur
at the filter
Conduct periodic valve and regulator inspections and set up maintenance intervals to rebuild
them if conditions so dictate.
Since freeze-up can occur due to lack of maintenance even in the best of systems always use
back-up systems if regulators or valves supply life support or other critical systems.
GF1,
You gettin’ all “scientist” on us or what? 😉 I did read ALL of what you posted. So,…. what do you take away from all of that?
Where/how do you see that being applied to air gun pressure systems?
Chris
Chris
Remember back when you got your Shoebox compressor. We talked about all of this. Remember I said at the machine shop I work at we have air dryers and coolers for the compressors. That’s how you ended up with your bucket cooling system with the first stage compressor lines. Then we talked about different ways to dry the HPA going to the gun.
It all makes a difference. And when you start talking air flow that’s another thing. As I said before it’s a balance.
How with a airgun. If a gun has moisture in the guns resivior and it flows through the guns valve and the gun has been exsposed to cold temperatures. As the gun shoots and pressure drops the moisture or water or whatever you want to call it will freeze at the valve where the flow of air is controlled.
So people living in warmer climates probably don’t even think about what the moisture in a gun can do. That’s what I’m getting at.
GF1,
Saved the link. From what I gather, it is better to have, than have not. Also, better to control, than not. You know that up in our region of the States that things can get quiet humid. Florida and other southern States in the nearby as well. I have had my guns sweat a bit when going from A/C dry to 80+ humid. Having the M-rod and the Maximus down, and not seeing issues,.. I wonder.
Still,.. any info. is good info. I would not mind something similar to a Diablo for a high pressure dryer, prior to the 98 cu. in. Guppy . I did put the 5 micron LP filter/trap on the LP side and filled the canister with desiccant beads. I did that late in the year and will have to see how it does this Summer.
I remember that you had some slanted tube, up the garage wall type thingy going on for the Shoebox if memory serves correctly. I only used the 5 gal. ice bucket idea for the initial fill of the Guppy. Have not done it since. All the air still passes through the 50′ of LP tubing though. The 5 micron is after that (on the way to the Shoebox) and I have yet to drain even water vapor mist from it.
Chris
(Quite) humid,… not (quiet). Although, that humidity does have a have a way of sneaking up on you and hitting you in the face all at once,……… 🙁
Chris
I use water mixed with anti-freeze to cool my China compressor now in my 5 gallon bucket that supplies the cooling for the HPA head. It does take longer for it to warm up when it runs now. Been doing that for awhile now.
But yep kind of interesting how air pressure works. And we only think about Co2 changing. Guess we just see it more with Co2.
Gunfun1,
Great link Gunfun1!!!!!
Anyone with a compressor or looking to buy one should read it closely!
Fortunately my DAQs only drop between 250-450 PSI per shot; so not even close to the 2-1 ratio!
There is a lot of great information in your link for users of compressors. I think it shows why the higher price units may be better at costing less over the operating life of the unit! Or how to modify lower cost units to get best performance at lowest cost. If I had a compressor, certainly if it had a dryer, my first modification would be to install a much longer tube/coil to the dryer, a flow orifice or two, regulators and probably rig up an air/water/ice/mechanical refridgeration intercooler (just like on a blower or turbo) to drop that air temperature after the compressor as much as posible.
But that’s why I choose to pay the dive shop $7.00 for a super dry and clean 100cf of 4,500 PSI air.
Thanks again,
shootski
Shootski
If I had a place to get a big tank filled that’s probably the route I would of went too.
Let them worry about purchase cost of their compressor, cost of maintenance and such. In otherwards no worry just go pay a small fee to fill my big tank and be done with it.
And why I liked the link it was pretty easy to understand and straight forward.
Freeze Up
Over ten years ago I told some company friends working in Wilmington Ohio that the best way to avoid frost bite was to find a palm tree and stand next to it. It would also help to avoid PCP power loss and compressor problems !
Just having one in sight would probably work just as good. I planted these two in my yard just to make sure and have never had any problems ! Snow even disappears in a few hours.
Bob M
Bob
I feel warmer already just looking at the picture. 🙂
By the way. Nice sunset.
GF1
Thanks. I get spectacular sunsets all the time. May have something to do with the sun setting over the pacific ocean and getting under the clouds. It gets brighter when you click on it. Some pictures I have would make great posters.
That’s Tecate peak in the background. Been thinking of naming my road Skyfire Way.
BB
I don’t mind if you eventually dump pictures like this that are not airgun related. Not sure what your arrangement is with P/A.
Bob M
Bob
My oldest daughter likes taking pictures of sunsets and thunderstorms. She has some cool pictures.
And since we are talking pictures and sunsets. Here’s a picture I took and posted it back when the picture option started on the blog. You might of already seen it. I don’t know but here it is again.
Kinda crazy ain’t it.
GF1
They can’t fool me. There’s a UFO hidden in there ! 🙂
By the way they are not anti-gravity machines … they are weightless machines. No mass to prevent them from making insane maneuvers. They move ‘through’ the air or water without displacing it. Has something to do with extremely rapid movement of atoms / molecules that often produced intense white light. IAW top UFO observers.
Bob
Right before it left the Earth’s atmosphere. 🙂
GF1
To clarify the follow up I added above. Just think about the Star Trek transporter. Similar operation , so they say. Ultra vibration.
Bob
As the ship leaves the ground.
You remember the rock song Children of the sun by Billy Thorp. That’s kind of what I was quoting.
Here’s the lyrics.
People of the Earth can you hear me?
Came a voice from the sky on that magical night
And in the colors of a thousand sunsets
They traveled through the world on a silvery light
The people of the Earth stood waiting
Watching as the ships came one by one
Setting fire to the sky as they landed
Carrying to the world Children Of The Sun
All at once came a sound from the inside
Then a beam made of light hit the ground
Everyone felt the sound of their heartbeat
Every Man – Every Woman – Every Child
They passed the limits of imagination
Through the doors – to a world – of another time
On the journey of a million lifetimes
With the Children Of The Sun – They started their climb
No more gravity, nothing holding them down
Floating endlessly, as their ship leaves the ground
through the walls of time – at the speed of light
Fly the crystal ships on their celestial flight
On their celestial flight.
Here’s a video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR2oct3zeTM
Oh and the picture I posted looks like a atomic bomb going off I thought.
GF1
That too. In 1988 I was over 40 and already into ” Oldies but goodies ” Never heard of that song or artist. I would like to say being stationed overseas for years or on a ship for weeks or months I may have missed some popular songs but I retired in1987.
Bob
Thought it was a fitting song since we was talking about sunsets.
Bob,
Catch Coast to Coast radio program. ALL kinds of paranormal. I catch the last 45 min. on the way to work in the AM. Runs Midnight to 5 AM. Check it out if you have an open mind. They have a net site too, which I have never been on.
Chris
Chris
I listened to Art Bell for many years and eventually Coast to Coast but I no longer get any usable AM signal since retiring to the boonies.
Just met a woman last night, ex USN medic, Her young teen son and two friends were abducted after following a large thing in the sky. They all had a small cut someplace on their body when they regained awareness. Doctors removed a small device that disintegrated on removal. All three have the same nightmare and now have mental disorders to the point that one ended his life.
As a country I don’t think we have any way to deal with this situation or prevent it.
Bob,
I catch it in FM. No FM in the boonies? With satellites and such, I thought anything was possible. At any rate, a great show. Prevent what?! According to some callers and guests,… we are already working with “them” right here, right now and have been. 😉
With the internet, there is too many people talking and too much out there for things to stay quiet forever.
Chris
Chris
Paranormal. I always thought that was about ghost or spirits. And not the type you drink. 🙂
But I searched it and it says it’s about things that are scientifically unexplained.
All I know is I have seen some weird things in the sky over time.
GF1,
Like air guns, ..it is a wide open topic and covers many things,.. with more questions than answers. Ok, maybe a bad example.
At any rate, I do not take it too seriously but at the same time I do not take it lightly nor dismiss it.
I have never been to the Coast to Coast site, but check it out if you have the interest or check out the radio show on your way home from work (2nd shift).
Chris
Chris
I find the subject interesting.
I watch the stuff occasionally on TV when the mood strikes me.
Chris
Paranormal. I thought that was about ghosts. Not aliens.
For those who don’t want compressors or tanks, Hatsan should offer a dual co2 version
Tom:
I feel I must say this, and please take it in the spirit in which I give it.
I can’t remember when, if ever, I have seen you make a review that doesn’t include scoping the gun?
Not all guns are designed to be scoped, and I think the Vectis is one such gun?
Of course, a scoped gun, in the right hands, is almost always more accurate than the same gun using open sights.
IMHO, most guns can be scoped, but not all guns should be scoped!
I believe this is one such gun!
By the mere fact that Hatsan has included removable open sights with this entry, while not including them with many other of their entries, do they believe it too?
I know that the Vectis has been made to accept most any sighting system that exists, but when they include a set of open sights, I think they are making a point, aren’t they? They don’t do this with most of their other entries?
I think that most airgunners will scope their rifles if shooting longer ranges, but as you know, scoped guns lose their effectiveness at closer ranges. Magnifications are too great and targets are harder to pick up using a scope.
Likewise, unscoped guns set up with open sights are much more effective at closer ranges than long ranges.
IMHO, you should have shot this gun using open sights within its effective range, while if you think it is necessary to prove the accuracy of the gun using a scope, you could have added the scope only for that purpose.
There are far and away more guns that suit scopes than open sights – many not even being equipped to accept them.
I think you might find that using the factory open sights, practical accuracy of this gun within say 25 yards, might surprise you? I think this is meant to be a hunting gun, used at close to moderate distances. It should be quite effective, unscoped, for that purpose.
Keep up the good reviews, Tom, we all appreciate them!
~ deerflyguy