by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- Synergis
- Gamo USA
- The story
- It gets better
- AirForce Airguns
- Diana Mauser K98 PCP
- Summary
Synergis
We were in the Umarex booth in the last report, so we’ll start there. The one other airgun that caught my eye in that booth was the new Synergis underlever repeater. Yes, this is yet another spring-piston rifle that repeats!
The Synergis from Umarex looks exciting. Photo courtesy Umarex USA.
This rifle has a gas piston/spring, yet is quite easy to cock. I am guessing it’s between 25 and 30 pounds of effort. It gets 1,000 f.p.s. with .177-caliber lead pellets and 1.200 with alloy pellets. It has a 12-shot rotary magazine, so it’s another spring-piston repeater. But this one has an underlever, so the mag is lower than usual with a springer that repeats. It has a shrouded barrel for quiet shooting and comes bundled with a 3-9X32 scope and rings. But wait for it — the really big news is the price. The Synergis retails for $169.95! When Umarex marketing manager Justin Biddle told me that I said, “What?” I expected $100 more.
Sure, we all know it’s made in Asia. It has to be at that price. But with all it offers I plan to test it and hope that it’s accurate. If so, it will be a new best buy!
The Synergis uses the same type of rotary mag we have seen with other repeaters.
The Synergis mag lies low in the receiver!
Gamo USA
Okay, I told you there would be big news today. Here it is. I was in the Gamo booth, trying to photograph their new Gen II Swarm Fusion 10X that was sitting inside a locked glass case, when another guy caught the attention of Gamo representative, Brad Conley. Brad was very helpful and told the other man, who was a gun dealer, a lot about the new Gen II Swarm. I listened in and got more information than I have ever gotten in the Gamo booth.
After the man was finished, I introduced myself to Brad and asked if there was any way to take the rifle out of the case for photography. He didn’t have the key, but instead went into one of the upstairs conference rooms (their booth is 2 stories and it’s huge) and got another example to show me.
Gamo’s Swarm Maxim 10X Gen II has the lowest magazine profile of any breakbarrel repeater on the market.
The story
Gamo may not have invented the repeating spring-piston air rifle (I don’t really know who did, but I’ve seen a Haenel from the 1950s) but they have been working with them since the 1960s. That’s half a century! But, until the Swarm came out a few years ago, they didn’t always feed pellets reliably. The Swarm took care of that. Using a reliable rotary magazine is so much easier than feeding lead pellets through a tube!
But the Swarm, and now the other breakbarrel repeaters that have come out at this show, all have very tall feeding mechanisms that force you to use high mounts for a scope. The Swarm Maxim 10X Gen II solves that with a horizontal magazine that reduces the height of the mechanism considerably. You can see for yourself in the photos. And, no, the horizontal mag is not compatible with the Gen I vertical mag.
You can see how low the new horizontal magazine lies when the barrel is closed. This allows the scope to be mounted lower.
The Swarm pellet feeding mechanism works well with the horizontal magazine.
Brad held the Swarm with the barrel fully broken so I could see how far it broke down. This is a long-stroke gas piston, which means easier cocking for great power.
It gets better
As I was talking to Brad, Gamo’s new vice president of sales, Joe Syring, walked up and introduced himself. Before coming to Gamo USA, Joe worked at Crosman for a number of years and we had met when he was there. We talked — and talked — and talked! Things have now turned around for me at Gamo USA. Joe is someone I can talk to, and he understands the American airgun market.
You know how we always say not to dry-fire a spring gun? Joe asked me about that and I told him that Gamo was the exception. They used to tell folks in their ads that they dry-fired their spring guns 10,000 times without any signs of damage. I thought I was impressing the new guy until he told me that, before one of their spring rifles goes into production, Gamo takes 10 and dry-fires EACH of them 10,000 times. That is 100,000 dry-fires before a gun comes to market. AND (but wait, there’s more) they pull a couple rifles out of each thousand in production and shoot them 10,000 times, as well! I don’t know why their marketing department hasn’t made more of this, but I certainly plan to.
AirForce Airguns
When you go to the AirForce booth, these days, you have to remember that they are also the BKL booth, the RAW booth and the AirForce International booth. The first thing I want to tell you is the RAW rifles are now shipping. Production is not up to full speed by any means, but guns are going out the door.
Some models of RAW air rifles are now shipping.
The other new rifle in the AirForce booth was the new Texan LSS. The L stands for long, because this is a full-length Texan with a shroud. This way you can get the full 500 foot-pounds of power in a quiet (ish) rifle. But they did something more. They will take the final five inches of the shroud that contains the baffles removable, so if you want a shorter rifle you can have it. It doesn’t show in the photo, but that’s what it will be on the production gun.
AirForce owner, John McCaslin, holds the new Texan LSS shrouded big bore air rifle.
Diana Mauser K98 PCP
I will leave you with this one to discuss over the weekend. The Diana Mauser K98 PCP is based in the Stormrider, so expect that level of performance — 20 foot-pounds in .177 and 26 in .22. The rifle is large and in charge, yet not overly heavy. As you can see, the appearance looks quite realistic. I expect this one to sell for less than $400 and you should see it by the summer.
Diana’s new Mauser K98 PCP will be great for the replica gun guys, of which I am one.
Summary
I am now so full of secrets that if you opened me up I would look like a box of Raisin Bran. There is more SHOT Show report to come, but you all need to chew your cud on this stuff for the weekend. Old BB is finally going to get some sleep!
B.B.,
Great Part 4 SHOT show endurance!
SECRETS! all these secrets to spill next week! Sleep well dream more pft!
Photograph caption correction: The Swarm pallet (pellet) feeding mechanism works well with the horizontal magazine
Good night,
shootski
shootski,
Fixed it. Thanks,
B.B.
I LIKE that Synergis!
Eagerly awaiting a test.
Sean.
Sean,
Me, too. I will keep after them on it.
I also want to test that new Ruger 10/22. I don’t know how CO2 plays in Australia. Is it allowed?
B.B.
B.B. CO2 is fine, what we basically don’t have is air handguns, as they are only allowed for competition, if 6? competitions per year is available to you.
Sean.
Sean,
Well, I do like my FWB P44, which qualifies for competition. It’s a PCP.
B.B.
Interesting that Diana is adding another K98 to their line up, but I can’t help but think that for the North American market, what they really need is an M1 Garand!
Chanman819,
I agree! The Garand is one we are missing sorely.
I think they should put real money into it, to make it as realistic as they can. Even the weight, which will seem extreme.
B.B.
BB,
I might go for a semi-auto M1 Garand PCP. That would be hard to resist.
RR
A semi-auto M1 pcp would be great.
GF1,
Most especially if it was correct in size and weight and .30 caliber.
RR
Agree with you 100% with that.
I would have to say that could be my first big bore air gun if they made one. That would be a way cool gun to have.
GF1,
Well, the truth is I personally hope it never happens. It would be one more air rifle I would want. 😉
R.R.,
Think DAQ, think DAQ, think DAQ!
More your cup of tea….
Virtually a family heirloom before they are crafted,
one at time, by a true airgun craftsman!
Legendary!
(Just trying to help, Lol!)
shootski
Shootski,
LOL! You’re a lot of help. 😉
RR
Oh don’t say that you hope it never happens.
I hope they make it and many more military pcp’s.
We already have all kinds of big bore pcp’s. But not the military pcp’s.
Couldn’t you see showing up at the local shooting range with a M1 semi-auto .30 caliber pcp and shooting some 1″ groups at a 100 yards.
I’m sure it would open up some firearm shooter eye’s.
GF1,
It would, but of course I can do that now with my .357 HM1000X. I seriously doubt the semi would give that performance. Maybe at 50.
RR
Of course with your HM. But it’s not a M1 pcp semi-auto .30 caliber we are talking about. I think the firearm guys would be definitely looking at the M1 pcp more than the HM at the shooting range.
And here we go again. The belief that a semi-auto isn’t accurate. And at a given distance at that.
If the right air gun maker made that M1 semi-auto pcp it could be very possible to get 1″ groups at a 100 yards.
For that matter how come some M1 firearms can shoot good at a 100 yards and others can’t. There’s a reason for that you know.
GF1,
Yes, a semi can be capable of such. It will take an effort on the manufacturers part for that performance though. That is why RAW air rifles cost so much. We will just have to keep wishing for it real hard and see what happens.
RR
Yep cost.
You get what you pay for as they say.
But then again there are already some accurate air guns out past 50 yards that don’t cost a arm or a leg.
And semi-auto at that.
The more I shoot my Bullmaster the more I like it. And it’s surprisingly accurate shooting standing unsupported. And real accurate bench resting. It took a bit of time to come around but it’s there now. Don’t know if it was a dirty barrel and shot it clean or if it needed seasoned. Whatever you call it it works now.
But yep there are accurate guns out there to exsperiance.
My thought is that thanks to the M1s long gas tube, a conversion for the underlever might be feasible with only a change to the rear sight (peep sight on the spring tube or rear dovetail) and stock.
The enbloc clip would be a neat way to hide the rotary pellet mag though!
Yup . The K98 should be made as a co2 bolt action feeding pellet shells, the Garand , like the o3 Springfield, Lee Enfield is overdue . Have seen a write up of a wood stock AK select fire. Why isn’t the US getting this, and where oh where is a select fire Thompson?
Michaeir,
I agree on the C02. I like C02 guns, but I’m from the South and I don’t shoot a lot in the dead of winter (airguns or powder guns). Lot’s of shots, self regulating, so no need for a regulator and no need for a hand pump or compressor.
Doc
I like the K98 pcp. Maybe more military pcp’s will happen in time. I hope so.
B.B.,
I can tell you are just brimming with secrets you’d like to tell us, because despite today being a Friday, the SHOT Show coverage continues.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I had to do an historical report on Monday, because of travel, but next week I already see one more report, if not more.
B.B.
BB,
Most interesting. I am very curious about the Synergis. One is the transfer port. Is it along the left side or underneath? Either way it is quite long.
Another is has Umarex/Wang Po Industries learned how to make a decent trigger? I liked my Gamo CFX after I rebuilt the trigger. I am hoping this one will be nice.
Speaking of Gamo, I am glad things have now turned around for you with them. I am still hoping to find out if the entire magazine assembly on the new Fusion Swarm Maxxim 10X Gen II ZZZKLFTXX!!!! will fit on the older Swarm Maxxim. Of course there are more moving parts for Murphy to mess with.
And I know I should not complain as I have always advocated form follows function, but to me that 10X is b’ugly. I do not care if it can cook or not.
RR,
The transfer port is behind the magazine, isn’t it? I see your confusion with the probe. I guess we will find out when I get a chance to look at one under test.
B.B.
RR,
I didn’t read your entire message. I can pretty much confirm that there is NO WAY the new Swarm Gen II mechanics will retrofit to the Gen I rifle. It isn’t just the mechanism, it’s also the machining on the gun to accept it, plus the cocking and feeding linkages are different. The Gun II is a new gun.
B.B.
BB,
Well, I guess that one is scratched off my dream list then. 😉
BB,
Perhaps the probe is hollow? As you say, we shall see.
B.B.,
As usual you have left us with tantalizing dreams of the next installment! That said, so far you have shared some really exciting developments in airgunning. Who would have thought just seven years ago that spring piston repeaters would be the hot item? And yet the sales must be brisk on them, because Gamo is refining, coming out with second generations, Hatsan and Umarex are coming out with innovative models, etc.
Plus a new PCP of the K98! I’ve been wondering why we haven’t seen lots of PCP replicas, but now there we have one.
And Gamo gave you Royal treatment this year, too. (I am intrigued by their ability to be dry-fired extensively.)
Get some rest. I think all of us are addicted to this Shot Show series and want to see more.
Michael
Michael,
It’s 0325 and I’m up and at it again — but this is the last day.
This show had fewer new products, but the companies seem to have spent more time getting them ready for the market, which I think is a good thing.
B.B.
BB
After reading this and Hard Air magazine I can honestly say there are too many airguns to keep track of out there.
I am overwhelmed and speechless. Evidently the airgun world is growing in leaps and bounds as are the innovations. Gonna’ be hard to pick and choose from now on.
Bob M
Bob,
The airgun market is hot right now. Firearms are not having the same success, but a few companies are doing quite well. A lot of firearms shooters are coming into airguns and that is making our ranks swell.
B.B.
BB
I haven’t shot a firearm in over 5 years now. No need to with powerful airguns.
The cost, and lack of, ammunition drove me away. I would go through a lot of ammo out in the desert. If gun makers were smart they would get together and create a source of cheep ammunition for us civilians to jump back in. They also shut down a lot of BLM shooting areas here in Kalifornia and will hassle you when you do. Fortunately for us when one door closed another opened.
Bob M
Bob,
Good points. I hope firearm industry execs read your comment. But I am an airgunner through and through.
Michael
Don’t get too happy, once they are done restricting firearms, airguns will be next
M
You betcha, if only they can.
Deck
Michaeir
Sadly, once some brain dead punk kills or tries to kill someone with one of these very powerful PCP’s, it will start/happen (or speed up the process anyway).
Doc
B.B.,
Fine report. Looking forwards to more news/secrets.
– I like the looks of the Synergis. Wow on the price. Lets see what we get for that. Underlevers seem to be the way to go/makes sense for a repeater gas/spring gun.
– The Gamo Swarm II,…. that mechanism is quite the contraption! Very happy for you that Gamo has finally warmed up to you. You are doing them a favor and not the other way around. It sounds like a nice relationship going forwards.
– The Raw line looks interesting. The shroud/silencer on the HM 1000X looks quite odd with that down under design. I wonder if Air Force has added any tech./info./design/influence/features to the RAW line?
– LSS Texan,….. that thing looks crazy long. The shroud, while maybe nice-er on the ears, just kills the looks IMO. I would have to lean towards the non-SS in any model myself. The Condor line would be my first choice I think.
All in all, a fine report and looking forwards to more from you and the commenters here that are always savvy on getting info./updates/links from abroad. Should be some good discussions happening.
Good Day to you and to all,………. Chris
Chris,
Yes, AirForce has done things to the RAW rifles. But they are walking a tightrope. They don’t want to hurt the quality, but they want to make the guns more produceable, and that is a fine line to walk.
Lou Ferrigno was in the AirForce booth and told me he now owns a RAW rifle in ever caliber. His favorite for hunting seems to be the .30 caliber.
B.B.
Thanks for the report B.B.!
I tend to purchase a gun (fishing rod, tool, etc.) for a specific application and keep them forever.
With all the new offerings hitting the air gun world it looks like I am going to need another gun safe or face some hard decisions as to what to keep or sell.
Looking forward to the next report(s) where you spill all the secret raisins!
Hope you have a restful weekend Tom.
Happy Friday All!!
Hank
Hank,
You sound like me. I am likely going to have to move a couple of the gals out before I can invite others to move in.
Enjoying this series; the more choice, the better. The growth of airgunning is not surprising. In FM’s neck-of-the-no-longer-woods, rampant development has wiped out many of the free-range shooting areas firearms enthusiasts once enjoyed. Hunting land has also been reduced. The days of taking out the ’03 Springfield or the K98 to blast water jugs, watermelons, or what have you is pretty much over. Add to that the changing attitudes about firearms, and FM is certain if he were to be seen totin’ the old Springfield into just about anywhere where once no one would have cared, the SWAT guys would show up and arrest him as a suspected terrorist.
So, airguns are friendlier, safer, less stressful alternatives for the shooting enthusiast, for now, at least.
Today, your are the Bearded Story Teller. BB, somehow your excitement comes across the screen to me and gets me excited to. You have a unique gift, my friend. As much as I have disliked Gamo in the recent past, it is exciting to think what a powerhouse like Gamo could be with a person who actually is interested in airguns and airgun technology at the head of the company.
The springer repeaters that I always think of are the El Gamo 68 and Survival rifles. My survival rifle functions flawlessly for 21 shots. And, being light and easy cocking, you don’t get tired breaking that barrel over 21 times. If a version if the IZH61 is coming back, maybe Gamo should revive the Survival rifle too.
Keep having fun, it is coming through,
David Enoch
B.B.,
As Alice said, “curiouser and curiouser”. So much innovation and evolution, not to mention the Gamo front. Of course there must be consumers who vote with purchases.
The Synergis does look interesting, maybe even promising. Plus, it is nearly $200 less than the Hatsan Proxima. I can only wonder how they compare in a heads up evaluation.
I do see that Umarex states, “The Umarex Synergis is the first gas piston under lever rifle to offer an in-line repeating action, fixed barrel, and removable magazine.” As a general statement, I believe they are mistaken. I believe the Proxima wins that one. Of course, there will be differences in the details.
As always, thank you for all you do for the sport and your readers.
Wow! An opportunity to check my post and edit in a 30 minute window.
~ken
B.B.
Thank you for a great batch of reports. I am looking foward to the next one. In the mean time you get some well deserved rest my friend.
Gerald
BB
Oh exalted and most bearded One! It looks like Gamo has started a stampede (as you predicted).
So… the Swarm has fixed sights? Is that new on multi-shot breakbarrels? Also, will it just be in .22 cal.?
Swayne
Swayne,
It’s offered in both .177 and .22. The new VP of sales also wants them to go to .25, which they don’t do now, so we should see some surprises there, as well.
B.B.
That K98 pcp in 7.62/.30 cal. please. And the Nemesis seems that it will really challenge the Crosman 2240. Really interesting times. Thanks for helping us all dream about the coming future.
Bill
BB
When I was young and in high school I had a teacher who often verbalized his opinion about beards and I have never forgotten his words, ” Beards are weird, don’t hide behind a beard! ” Glad he could not do anything about it.
So far it looks like I have to buy the Mauser K98, M1 Carbine and the Bushmaster MPW. and last night I had a dream that a Brocock Commander was stolen from me before I left the store I purchased it from ! ?? Not meant to be?
Bob M
Bob,
You made me chuckle aloud. My dad In 1968 my dad showed up for the school year’s beginning faculty meeting, the Friday morning before the year started. My dad taught 8th grade U.S. history. It was his seventh year there. Over the summer he grew a beard simply because he always hated shaving. They sat around and stayed awake as the principal talked about stuff. Then at the end of the meeting the principal said to my dad, “Nice beard, Bob, but Monday it has to be gone.”
Monday morning my dad stopped by the school office for his mail and made a point of ducking his head in his principle’s office to say, “Have a good school year!” He mostly did it to show his boss that he still had his beard. He kept that beard for all of the 23 years he taught after that, all at that same school.
Michael
Michael
Bob M
Buy the Brocock anyway. Sometimes you don’t want to listen to your dreams. 🙂
Hey All you iron sight shooters,
More of shootski’s accuracy ramblings!
Doing some surfing and found this great piece on FRONT SIGHT FOCUS:
:https://www.nrafamily.org/articles/2017/3/8/again-with-the-front-sight/
The last few sentences are worth their weight in at least silver if not platinum.
shootski
Shootski,
Good article. I guess focusing on the front site just came natural for me, but I did a lot of shooting before I really tried to figure out the reasons and apply any logic to the iron sight process.
Taking it to the next step I figured being able to focus better on the front sight would improve my group sizes. I had a pair of glasses made that moved my distance vision focus just past arms length.
My depth of field has continued to get shorter with age. So it is all a compromise and I also have a slight astigmatism.
Here is what I have been testing.
1. Safety glasses no correction to vision. Rear sight a little fuzzy. Front sight good focus. Target very fuzzy.
2. Shooting glasses. Rear sight fuzzy. Front sight very slight fuzzy focus. Target little fuzzy.
3. Distance glasses. Rear sight very fuzzy. Front sight moderately fuzzy focus. Target good focus.
I think a person’s depth of field makes a significant difference in developing the correction in their shooting glasses prescription.
My initial assumption has been that if focusing on the front sight is critical to performance then being able to focus on the front sight is also critical.
My testing so far has not proved my assumption out, especially with an open notched rear sight. I do better with my distance glasses.
With aperture/peep sights my depth of field is increased to the point that the front sight (either post or globe) and target are in good focus with either of my prescriptions.
So for me the focus on the front sight means to concentrate my focus on the front sight.
I need to do more testing but my early testing is showing larger groups with my glasses that focus more on the front sight than the target.
Don
Benji,
I’ve always wanted some eyeglass sights.
/product/eyepal-peep-sight-master-kit-for-rifles-pistols-bows?a=4497
Doc
Doc,
I added them to my wish list. I was going to try them a while back but forgot. I bet they will work by lengthening my depth of field.
Thanks,
Don
Shootski
Just felt I should comment.
That’s pretty much all I did as a kid was shoot open sights.
I shot shot some dot sights throughout time then scopes.
I have found myself forcing myself (notice I say forcing myself) the last couple of years to shoot open sights again. As in iron sights.
What I have found is after going back to iron sight shooting mixed in with my other types of sight shooting I’m back at being pretty good at it.
And to note I have astigmatism and been wearing glasses for about 30 years now. And mind you the only reason I started wearing glasses was so I could see my radio controlled airplanes better.
But most of my problem has been my astigmatism. And I should say I had a very good eye doctor that taught how to focus my eyes with and without glasses. But that’s what has helped my vision the most. Eye training.
Gunfun 1,
Sounds like you found one of the really good eye doctors; most of them just prescribe correction and off you go for another year. Eye training is a rarity these days.
I’m willing to use whatever sighting system works for the job at hand. It is always fun to shoot Clay’s and realize that it really is The Force you depend on (for lead angle) and a good patterning shotgun that makes or breaks (pun intended) you.
Stay Warm,
shootski
Shootski
He’s been retired for many many years. I imagine there ain’t many left around like him. Definitely thankfull I met him.
Have you looked at the moon lately?
Is it focused when you look at it?
When you have astigmatism it’s not. Matter of fact it’s like what some people describe when they see a dot sight. It’s oblong and shadowed to say the least when I see it.
Sight training is the only thing that has helped me correct that.
And that’s the thing about vision. Everybody is unique in there own way. And how they use their vision. Corrected or uncorrected. And should I go as far as to say what works for the way they use it.
And the Force. How many people have that. 😉
Shootski,
Nice read. Most of mine are iron sighters. Like GF1 pointed out, if you learn to shoot with open sights, the others are a piece of cake.
R.R.,
I just hope the link provided and the discussion it generates helps some folks new to shooting Airguns see the issues more clearly sooner. Or even, heaven forfend, helps old hands get a little more out of their “primitive” sighting systems!
shootski
Benji-Don,
It figures that the first comment is from someone who gets it!
I’m certainly no Optometrist but I find it interesting that your shooting glasses don’t give you the best result. With your non-RX Safety glasses you are getting what I look for. Are you adjusting them for rifle or pistol? Which sight radius did your eye doctor set them up for?
I have been very slightly Myopic since my mid twenties and have now moved on in my early 60s to age related Presbyopia. I have been dealing with shooting with Presbyopia for the past decade.. So Accommodation is the issue we face when using iron sights; one plane in focus but not two…almost all of us never have all three in focus without optics. I have bifocal glasses for shooting pistol with the correction in the top third of the shooting eye lense and have trifocals (with the same correction in the top third as in the bottom third of the dominant eye) for shooting rifle from both upright and prone positions. I have been giving much thought to a way to set up EDW (Every Day Wear) glasses for practice shooting and real world self protection shooting vision needs.
Interestingly from a purely geometric standpoint having the target out of focus causes the least amount of loss of precision as was hinted at in the link.
Whenever we talk about iron sights and focus at least three types get discussed: optical focus, attention focus and mental focus. This triad causes a great deal of confusion among shooters, both old hands as well as brand spanking new shooters, unfortunately!
Optical Focus is the fuzz discussion and usually ends with complaints of, “How can I shoot good scores if I can’t get a sharp image of what I’m shooting at as well as my sights.” Fuzzy Targets and fuzzy Rear sights are what all good iron sight shooters get to see.
Attention Focus is the eye jumping back and forth trying to focus on rear, front, target in a serial neverending sequence. If you (generic you) are a victim of that fault the telltale sign is not ever being successful at CALLING multiple shots in a string well. CALLING shots is what all good shooters successfully do all the time.
Mental Focus is the actual strength of will to CONCENTRATE on the front sight with supreme confidence that it is the correct thing to do from front sight acquisition until follow through is complete. Total CONCENTRATION is what all good shooters strive for all the time. How do you know you have it? After a certain number of shot cycles (varies from few to a few more) you will loose focus; improves with shooter experience and training. If you shoot 40-80 TOTAL CONCENTRATION shot cycles you should be fatigued mentally and physically; unless you are a World Class shooter who is in peak condition and training cycle.
This is what I know (my studied opinion) and have been taught by many great students of shooting. Hopefully it will be of help to at least some of the readers of this blog.
I stand ready with open mind to learn better as a true student of shooting!
shootski
Shootski,
Yep, I have been near sighted all my life. Started wearing glasses in grammar school. At that time I could focus to less than an inch from my eye. Now I have to strain reading small print without my glasses and use reading glasses for detailed work.
My near focus for my shooting glasses is set just past my finger tips, a compromise for both rifle and pistol. On a rifle the rear sight is very blurry unless it is down the barrel a ways. A peep sight takes away the rear sight problem and as stated in the report increases the depth of field.
Also in my opinion my eyes take longer to focus from the rear sight to the front sight and the target. When I was young it seemed my eyes focused fast enough that they all appeared in focus at the same time.
And my eyes are just not as clear any more at any distance. Because of that I have been going more and more to scopes until recently. B.B. and others on the blog have been discussing sights and glasses for a while and I have been trying to use iron sights. I like the variety and do not like optics that much on a pistol.
Good discussion. I need to do some more testing with my shooting glasses. I still think they will work out. At least I hope so.
Oh, and I am left eye dominant and mostly shoot right handed, so I have been shooting more left handed. That is a whole nother discussion.
Don
Benji-Don,
Ooooh! Cross dominance always makes it MORE difficult for a shooter (especially rifle!) certainly not impossible; as you well know! Shooting on both sides is something more of us should do much more regardless of our circumstance. I just got done reading a report on aging that says crossing our midline is a great way to challenge our nervous system to keep it healthy.
Funny that you are pushing back into iron sights and I’m going toward reflex sights on my newest PB pistol. I think The Great Enabler has had much to do with that! SIG also made it almost impossible for me to resist by offering a fantastic deal on their ROMEO1 @ $199.00:for a product with a $499.00 MSRP.
https://www.sigsauer.com/products/electro-optics/reflex-sights/romeo1/
Granted the retail price for the 3MOA miniature Red Dot is down to the $260.00-300.00 range but SIG charged NO tax or S&H.
I’m impressed with my results so far compared to iron sights especially in low light situations and my speed on multiple targets is almost as good as Lena Miculek…I WISH!!!
I am a SIG owner but not employed or benefit from (formally) Shilling for them!
shootski
Ok, I’m confused.
The photo reads “Gamo’s Swarm Maxim 10X Gen II has the lowest magazine profile of any breakbarrel repeater on the market.”
But it does not appear to me to be as low as the Umarex Synergis…plus the Synergis mag is offset leaving that much more clearance for a scope.
Admittedly, the Synergis photo is taken from slightly above horizontal, so the mag may be higher than I think.
Also, dryfiring 10,000 times is one thing; but pellet firing 100 times without a pellet jam is another ballgame.
Airgunning times, they are achangin’.
John,
The Synergis is not a breakbarrel, but an underlever.
I realize that. Perhaps my post is poorly written. I’m just curious as to which of these two guns really allows the lowest telescope and so far, I’m not clear about that. No big deal – I’m not planning on buying either until their track records have been further established. If I wasn’t so lazy, I’d learn how to compensate for a high scope under varying gun-to-target distances.
John,
I apologize. I did misunderstand.
I myself will not likely buy either. In my eyes the Gamo is b’ugly and the Synergis has yet to be proven. My money says it has a lousy trigger.
Check around about the Swarm Maxxim and you will find that the magazine assembly does not interfere with sighting. It also is not b’ugly.
I like the Synergis rifle making the use of an underlever autoload as simple as a break barrel auto load system and the price is great. We all know the accuracy has the ultimate say and in the case of the auto loaders that is just one more mission critical thing that MUST work. I can hope the trigger will be good or at least somewhat serviceable. I would have liked open sights, but that’s another issue.
Mike,
The trigger will be the bait to hook me. I will be very surprised if it is worth pulling on. You never know though. They just might get it right for once.
Here is a nice touch,
There is a bunch of stuff in Steven Archer’s post on Hard Air yesterday, but what caught my eye was that JSB is coming out with screw on lids for it’s pellet tins. I like that.
https://hardairmagazine.com/news/2019-shot-show-airgun-news-pcps-pellets-and-more/
Mike
Mike
I heard about that a while back. I wonder if the AirArms tins will be the same.
GF1,
From what I understand JSB makes AirArms pellets with AA dies, I would guess that means they also package the pellets so I would think yes the AA pellets will soon be shipped with screw on lids.
Mike
Mike
We will see.
GF1,
That is assuming my assumption is correct. 🙂
Mike
Mike
Let’s hope so anyway.
Mike,
Very nice. It only makes sense. Long over due. We air gunners look at our pellets like pearls,.. jewels,.. magic bullets. I personally have never had a pellet “dump”,…. but picking/finding a 350/500 count tin out of the gravel or dirt or grass would be no fun. In fact, I would not do it. I look for other makers (those that have not done it yet) to follow suit.
Chris
Chris,
I have had an accident dropping a closed tin of JSB onto my back deck, concrete, the pellets they did scatter. The porch was damp with much leaf debris 🙁 swept them up and tossed them. That is why the mention of screw on lids caught my eye.
The other day my cat decided that 2 tins of JSB sitting on my computer table needed to be pushed off, so he did, fortunately both remained closed, I think falling on carpet was the saving grace. Thing is threaded tins would give a guarantee of security.
Mike
Mike
So what do you do with those pellets now.
Are they only plinking worthy now or do you still shoot target practice with them?
GF1,
The ones I dropped, as I said, they were thrown out. The cat drop pellets did not open and looking at them they appear just fine, JSB also adds foam that keeps the pellets from bouncing around inside. I looked through the tins and they appear ok, as cold as it is no shooting lately.
Mike
Mike
So did the cat drop pellets shoot ok?
GF1,
Will not know for sure till warmer weather, I suspect they will be fine.
Have you had dropped pellets that looked fine but did not shoot well?
Mike
Mike
I have dropped pellets. Spilled stuff in them and still shot well.
But that was in guns that have shot those pellets well. Didn’t try them in other guns after that. Maybe they would shoot better in those guns after that. Who knows.
I spent some time today testing two guns between my shooting glasses (good focus on front sight) and my distance glasses (good focus at distance). In a nut shell I need to spend some more trigger time. My groups were embarrassing, making it a hard call. I used my IZH at 10 Meters resting the grip base on a pillow laying over a wood gun rest. It was stable. I think the shooting glasses edged out the distance glasses but it was more me than the glasses in either case. The groups were so poor that in this case the glasses did not make a difference.
Well here is the target you can see for yourself. I think my trigger pull and follow-through need a few days of practice to settle down.
I will say one thing though; that I can do significantly better with the bright red stick-on bulls. I used these targets to make it harder for me to get a good sight picture, I guess that part may have worked.
Don
Here is the target from my Diana Chaser carbine with a peep sight I made for it. I will say the Chaser is a great little shooter. I polished the crown and leade on the barrel. The bolt action and single shot tray work like a dream. My only problem with it is I keep changing the CO2 cartridge because it is so quiet I think it is empty.
Here is the target at 25 yards with the Chaser still too close to call and not that great on the groups. The gun can do better.
Don
Don
Yep seeing the target is it.
I found my round circles drawn at different sizes for different distances has helped a lot.
Don,
(I do admire your efforts). With the 499 I do fine. (peeps) For me, I will do scopes as they work well. My eye sight is lacking for near. My distance is fine at age 58.
Just a funny, or (not so funny) side note,….. I find the whole topic of rear in focus/front in focus/target in focus a bit absurd. For me, I want (everything) to be in focus. Granted,… I never learned to shoot proper with opens (when my eyesight was good),… but none the less, it ain’t happening now.
Yes,… if any one of advanced age can shoot opens,…. the more power to ya’. For me,…. I will stick with perfect target sight/acquisition (scopes/peeps). My 2 cents on the matter.
Chris
Chris U,
You know me, I don’t know when to quit. I do have the Crosman 101 with the peep and globe front sight same as the 499; that takes away much of the vision issues. I guess I expected the shooting glasses to make me a better shooter, that is going to take a lot more practice.
Don
Don,
As I said, I (do) admire your efforts. Like B.B., I suppose if I was faced with insurmountable sight issues, I would consider surgery. (15 minutes and all is cured,…. right?) 😉
Don’t know when to quit?,…. 🙂 Been there, done that. Let’s just say that I am not inclined so much any more. Though I will say,………… if something sparks my interest,…. the “gloves are off!”
🙂 Chris
Chris
Take some time and try open sights.
GF1,
The only opens I have are the 75th Red Ryder. As you know, accuracy on those is a bit of joke. Plus,.. unless someone has a bunch of time (free time in general) to try/practice new things, it then comes down to using the time you do have to your utmost benefit. For me, that is using accurate rifles with quality glass. I do not have the time for guessing, estimating or,… “guesstemating” as to what I am seeing with regards to sights or targets. Nor the patience.
Yes, depending on the target and scope and reticle,… sizing the bull to the cross hairs/mildots can be a big help. But, that then becomes distance and magnification specific. Different colors bulls/dots as well. In the Summer, when the woods are fully canopied, a 3″ orange florescent dot sticker that I get at work, works very well at 100 yards. I have pink and green as well. I just draw a bull and crosshairs as needed. Black rings on white paper work pretty well too. All black bulls with rings never did make sense to me. Bottom line, the more precisely that you can see/parse the target in conjunction with using the sights, the better you will do.
Chris
Chris
True about seeing the sights and target.
But what way would be better. Seeing a sharp target or seeing a sharp sight.
I myself would rather see a sharp target so I can place the sights on a precise spot on the target.
Like I mentioned below easy experiment to do with a scope reticle and ocular adjustment for the reticle.
Then next try with the reticle focused but make the target out of focus with the parallax adjustment. See what kind of groups you get and compare to the other groups with the other scope settings.
People that shoot open sites know what I’m talking about. I’m just giving examples of how to see what I’m talking about by using a scope.
Benji-Don,
You can do better! Let yourself.
Really not bad groups for the most part…shooting 10M targets at 25 yards.
Gunfun 1 pointed out something most shooters will not grab on to in his post a few above about different sized target circles/targets for different distances. There is a great deal of wisdom in his method. I will venture that if you used a small calliber 25 yard target you will probably like your groups better. It may take you some getting used to but only one way to find out.
Also, if it turns into One Of THOSE Days; you have a choice to make. You can forget about small group goals and go back and work on THE BASICS, or you can pack it in for the day and go for a walk, swim, or other physical activity you love and come back to shooting another day. Maybe no coffee or other stimulants etc. Seems like you want better groups lots of things to try but I would heed Gunfun 1’s advice first.
Good shooting!
shootski
Shootski,
Thanks for being kind. I usually can stay around 0.4 ” 10 short groups rested with the pistol at 10m. So I am off my game.
The Chaser carbine is new to me so I don’t have any reference. I also have not tested for the best pellets. Six out of the 10 shots on each of the 25 yd targets were good groups especially with the distance glasses. Maybe the flyers are from the pellets. In any case I need to start spending more trigger time. If I was off more on elevation I would be more inclined to think the small target was an issue.
I am pretty sure I have something in my mental focus that is off. Or I have changed something in my mechanics I am not aware of with the pistol. I know the pistol can shoot flies all day at 10 meters.
Don
Don
Guess that means seeing the target works the best. That’s the way I like my open sight shooting. Especially at longer distance like 50 yards and out.
But then again I think it’s partially due to what you get use too. But for me I would rather the target be focused.
Benji-Don,
So I thought some more about your fly size groups as I was packing to go to the range! I looked at your targets again and just for fun scored them on a pistol target or two. On a B-16 RC, 25 YD. SLOW-FIRE PISTOL TARGET all your impacts, by eyeball, are inside 9 ring for score…including what you are calling flyers! On a 50 FOOT PISTOL SLOW-FIRE TARGET all of your impacts on any of your posted targets are inside the 7 ring as well. So what! you say. That’s my point! Airgun shooters are much harder on ourselves than firearm shooters…especially pistol shooters! Well you might say they need to deal with far more recoil…not on SLOWFIRE. That’s why I chose those to compare with your targets. Even with TIMEDFIRE it is much slower than most Airguners imagine; and most firearm shooters corner themselves into short periods due to poor GO preparation and then uneven tempo.
Just a quick reflection on reality of PB shooting and AIRGUN shooting level of performance expectations.
shootski
Shootski
But you got to see the target to hit it is what I’m getting at. Not only sizing the target to the sight.
I would rather my target be sharp and focused verses my sight being focused.
It’s like this. I can still shoot good groups with a scope and the reticle out of focus. But I can’t shoot as good of groups with the target out of focus.
Maybe it’s just me but I like my target focused over my sight being focused. All I can say is for a person to try it and see what they find. It’s very easy to do with a scope that has a ocular adjustment. Just remember to put the reticle on target as best you can with the reticle out of focus. I think the results will be surprising to some.
But again that’s me and how I’m use to shooting. I wear my everyday prescription glasses when I shoot. And that’s target shooting or out hunting. No time to switch glasses when hunting you know what I mean. I want to see as normal when I’m shooting if that makes sense.
Gunfun 1,
I started this thread about generic Iron sights ramblings! NO fair bringing scopes into the mix! Lol!
I get what your taking about.
That’s why I’m looking into and thinking hard about practical shooting/hunting eyeglass design that don’t look like they are only “COOL” at the competition venue!
shootski
Shootski
I know. But it was the easiest way that I could think of to tell what you and Benji Don and I was talking about.
But tell me this. The hunting glasses your talking about is for open sights right? So will they be wore at all times or you put them on when you get the sights on the what your hunting? To me if you wore them at all times and they are set to work with the guns sight and target. You probably can’t keep them on while your walking through the woods or feild. I would think you would be tripping over everything.
Gunfun 1,
Practical Shooting RX eyeglasses (includes hunting, practice on steel, plinking and self defense) will hopefully not cause tripping over things in the woods, desert, house, range, parking lots or sidewalks. For decades I wore simple lense RX eyeglasses and 10 years or so ago when it was time for bifocals I wondered about just that problem and also when snow skiing; didn’t happen.
My Practical Shooting eyeglasses concept is to be centered on having the dominant eye lense only be a trifocal. How much of the upper third of the lense needs to be set up for iron sight/peep sight in the PRONE position is the first issue that needs to be solved. The next one is for pistol sights, mostly for target shooting, but perhaps with more research with the ROMEO1 I may find a need for the same dominant eye RX trifocal setup for reflex sights. I can use the bottom current bifocal to see the front iron sight clearly from a little less than arm’s length out to rifle front sight distance. The issue is it requires tipping your head back which tends to put you off balance for practical shooting; plus it looks NERDY! Since the change only effects a small upper part of the dominant eye RX lense I doubt it will cause me to stumble around. The big question is exact placement of the focal plane of the trifocal grind and just how small it can be and still work for multiple iron sights on multiple platforms.
shootski
My reply ended up at the bottom of the comments
Shootski
I have been wearing bifocals for a number of years now and can shoot open sight with the regular lens no problem. I have the bifocals because my up close vision has gotten worse. Need them mostly because of my machine shop work. Got to see what I’m doing while checking the parts and such when I’m machining and wiring stuff and such.
And I tryed trifocals about 6 months ago. My eye doctor thought they would work good for the type of work I do plus shooting. I didn’t like them at all. And they was lined trifocals not progressive. But it made me search back and forth all the time to try to focus at different distances. If I would of kept wearing them my vision probably would of got worse I believe.
So just sticking with bifocals now.
B.B.,
I’m looking forward to reading more about all the great things from SHOT. I hope you are able to get that new SIG PCP fairly early. I’ve passed on picking up the MCX yet, but might have to grab one of these.
Do you know the dates yet for this year’s Texas Airgun Show? I’m trying to get some things on my calendar and am hoping that won’t conflict with the Scout Camps we have this summer.
Thanks!
Jim
Jim,
June 22 for the show.
B.B.
Thank you!
Frangible pellets. I like the concept. I do hope they are worth sending downrange.
RR,
Frangible,.. or “hyper” expanding? Like the Dust Devil bb’s? Is the same guy involved? Smacking into steel and exploding/fragmenting/turning to dust,.. is one thing,…. fragmenting (chunks/talons of lead) into vermin would be another thing.
So what is it?
Chris
Chris,
This may help you out https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=cJOkSnc3Gt0
skip to about 5:46 for the Hades.
Mike
Mike,
Thank you. (Worth a watch you guy’s) It will be interesting to see some ballistic gel testing with the Hades.
JSB,…. 100% hand sorted/inspected for defects????!!!!! Yup! Watch the video.
Thanks again Mike,…………… Chris
Chris,
No problem, now what I want to see is an airgun designed around the paper weight pellets on the table. LOL
Mike
Mike,
LOL!!! 🙂 Better get B.B. involved in that venture. As I recall, he “might” have played with tank/artillery rounds at sometime in the past?
😉 Chris
Chris,
Those look about the size of a large pellet tin.
Mike
Mike,
Heck,…. those things could launch at a measly 200 fps and still pack 1000+ of FPE,.. no problem!
In fact, for $9.99,… I would buy a plastic replica just to have one!
Chris
Chris,
Just sent an email to JSB to find out if the paper weights can be bought.
I will let you know what comes back.
Mike
Chris USA,
You could probably simply drop those from a tenth story window and do more damage! Probably more accurately too! Over the rainbow trajectory that 200 FPS MV would give you! Lol!
shootski
Chris,
It will be interesting to see if you can hit anything with it. It is like FPE, it you can’t hit it, it doesn’t matter how much you have.
Shootski,
I have a pair of progressive lens glasses. I can pick a location on the lens for any distance of focus I want. The problem is I needed to be a contortinist to use them. They now sit in a drawer.
I tried hunting with a scope adjusted to my vision without glasses. With my first shot I realized my mistake; I had my glasses on so I could see. I did not take the shot and stoped to reset my scope to my glasses.
I think that glasses may need to be set up differently for each person based not only on where to have best focus but highly influenced by the person’s depth of field. That is why a peep sight helps because it increases the depth of field. It is going to be a compromise and will never be as good as good eyes. That said good technique and practice can still make a person a good shot even with moderately poor vision.
Good luck with your glasses.
Don
Don
That’s how I use my scopes. I have my regular glasses on and adjust the ocular lens for a sharp focused reticle with both eyes open. Then I adjust my parallax to make the target sharp and focused.
I haven’t tryed adjusting the scope without my glasses on. I may have to try that just to see what adjustments I come up with.
Benji-Don,
Scopes for hunting are an issue for us hunters to be surem that’s why I like iron sights. Eyes that are suffering the double whammy of aging I guess we just need to do the best we can to overcome. If I never had super sharp eyesight I guess it would be easier to accept.
I can still remember the sight pictures from all the hours of practice on paper. The clearest memories however are of watching the black paddle fall away and be replaced by all white with just the half-moon shadow of the rim on the horizontal line of five targets…and thinking NO PENALTY LAPS to ski; i SHOT CLEAN! Also no memories of eyeglasses getting fogged or sweated up back then!
Got to remember to age gracefully,
shootski