by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
FWB 110 target rifle. I’m the one who cut off both ends of the gun in this photo.
This report covers:
- FWB target rifles
- First target rifle
- How rare and what is it worth?
- What’s it like?
- Sliding compression chamber
- Same as a 300
- Trigger
- What does it feel like?
- Summary
I was going to run the Daisy 99 today, but this opportunity to review the FWB 110 came along and things were just right for it. How about I do Part 2 of the Daisy 99 on Monday?
Most of today’s pictures were provided by Tommy Cupples. My thanks to him for their use.
FWB target rifles
After World War II the world of airguns got a jump start from the reorganization of economies worldwide. In many countries there was disposable cash to spend and airguns vied for a share of it. In Germany the production of fine target air rifles like the Weihrauch HW55 and the Walther LG50-series brought formal airgun competition to the forefront. By the 1960s, things had heated up in both the competition realm as well as in the innovation and production of the guns. There were national titles to be won, and, before long, a world cup!
Feinwerkbau entered the target rifle competition in 1962 with the model 110. It was produced from March of ’62 until March of ’64, but fewer than 200 models were produced. I am taking these facts from the Blue Book of Airguns, where Robert Beeman placed them. Many times the Blue Book has been criticized for incomplete data, but in the case of anything relating to FWB, you had better listen. Robert Beeman was very close to the company and their founders and he visited them several times over the course of many years. Don’t forget that it was his company that spotlighted the FWB 124, which started the velocity wars of the 1970s.
First target rifle
Back to the story of the 110. It was Feinwerkbau’s first target rifle, and they nailed it! In this report I will show you what I mean and describe how it feels to shoot an FWB sidelever that recoils. I can do that because, thanks to reader Jerry Cupples and his brother, Tommy, I have photos, data, targets, plus I had the rare experience of shooting a 110 at the recent Texas airgun show!
How rare and what is it worth?
There are two sides to this story and I will deal with the first one now. How rare is the FWB 110 and what is one worth? With fewer than 200 ever made, this has to be one of the rarest production airguns in existence. The one at the show was the only one I have ever seen, and I have only heard of 2 others. One is in a collection and the other is in parts in Canada — awaiting the next decision for its fate.
The markings on the gun. Photo Tommy Cupples.
What it’s worth is a subject for debate. The Blue Book puts a value of $1,800 on one in like-new condition. That is obviously too low, because if anyone offered one at that price in that condition it would evaporate in minutes. Airgunners gossiping at the show placed a value of $5,000 to $10,000 on the gun in the photos, but that’s not real, either. An FWB 110 is worth what someone is willing to pay, when given the chance.
Here is food for thought. About 1,100 Colt Walker revolvers were produced in 1847. Many were destroyed in the Mexican War, others blew up because the gunpowder charge of 60 grains was too much for their metallurgy. Today an average condition Walker (all of them are worn out) will fetch $350,000-600,000, and a record price of $1.6 million was paid at auction for the only known cased example this year. That made it the 7th most valuable firearm in the world. The FWB 110 was produced in far fewer numbers than the Walker Colt. Though it does not share the same rich history of that revolver, there are far fewer 110s in existence than Walkers today, yet they will only fetch a fraction of the price.
That is as much information as I have on the rarity and value of an FWB 110. From this point on, your guess is as good as mine.
What’s it like?
The second thing I can address is performance, because I had the chance to shoot this rifle and also because those who had it in their possession did some testing for us. But before we get into that, let’s look at the rifle close up. Tommy Cupples took several detailed photos of the rifle.
The rifle is a single shot spring piston air rifle that is cocked via a sidelever on the right side of the receiver. Like the FWB 150 and 300 guns that many know, the 110 cocks easily, with a light pull on the lever. The lever locks when closed, so the handle must first be rocked back to unlatch it from the rifle, then the lever is retracted to cock the mainspring.
The latch at the end of the cocking lever is spring-loaded and must be rocked back to unlock the lever from the side of the rifle. Photo Tommy Cupples.
This locking latch is a design detail that remained with the target rifles throughout their production. The shooter develops a feel for the steps required to cock the rifle and before long forgets the latch is even there. The latch on the FWB 300S works differently, but the concept is the same.
When the lever latch is unlocked the sidelever opens this far and stops. Photo Tommy Cupples.
When the lever is pulled back as far as it will go, the sear catches the piston and holds it until the gun fires. There is an anti-beartrap device on the trigger to prevent the sliding compression chamber from closing as the gun is loaded. The breech is loaded and the lever is returned home, moving the sliding compression chamber to the forward position awaiting the shot. Photo Tommy Cupples.
Sliding compression chamber
Like it’s younger cousins, the 150 and 300, the FWB 110 has a sliding compression chamber. This chamber mates with the barrel breech in a junction that’s conical. A breech seal keeps the air in the gun.
When the compression chamber pulls back, the breech is accessible for loading. As you can see, the rifling in the 110 goes all the way to the back of the barrel. Photo Tommy Cupples.
When the compression chamber is pulled back you can see the breech seal around the air transfer port. This seal is brand new. Photo Tommy Cupples.
I hope the pictures explain the sliding compression chamber’s operation for you. They also tell us that 1. The pellet can be loaded directly into the breech and, 2. The rifling goes all the way to the end of the barrel. Remember our discussion of the fit of the pellet to the bore? This design acknowledges that the positioning of the pellet in the bore is critical to accuracy. It’s not as convenient as a breakbarrel, but far more precise than a loading tap.
Same as a 300
So far I haven’t shown you anything that the owner of an FWB 300 doesn’t already know. There may be small fit and finish differences, but these parts on the 110 are the same on the 150 and 300. Let’s look at something that’s different — the trigger.
Trigger
The trigger on the 110 is light and crisp — I checked for it when I shot the rifle. Without a gauge I can’t tell you where the pull is adjusted but it feels similar to a 300 as far as weight and crispness of the release go. However the trigger blades are quite different.
The trigger blade on the FWB 110 is curved like a sporting trigger. Also the trigger is adjustable, but not to the same extent the later triggers were.
The trigger blade on my FWB 300S is straight. Older 300s and 150s had curved blades.
What does it feel like to shoot?
What does an FWB sidelever target rifle that recoils feel like? Well, it’s no different than a Walther LGV Olympia, a heavy Walther LG 55 or a tuned HW 55CM. Heavy airguns that don’t produce a lot of velocity don’t recoil much. You feel a tiny pulse in your arms and that’s it.
One nice thing is the action of the 110 doesn’t slide back in the stock when the gun fires, so the rubber eyeshade doesn’t hit you in the eye on every shot. That part is a relief!
This is all good news if you’re a shooter. It means you don’t need this super-rare target rifle to enjoy shooting informal targets. Any one of the vintage good ones will feel and shoot about the same, and be much more affordable.
“Yeah, but the FWB 110 has a fixed barrel that everybody knows is more accurate than a breakbarrel!” Guys — “everybody” wised up about a decade ago. Time to catch up. Breakbarrel, fixed barrel — same, same.
Summary
I have a lot more to tell you about this rare target rifle, but it will have to wait for Part 2. I expect by then we may know even more than we do right now.
B.B.,
Many thanks for Tommy Cupples for the chance to see such a rare air rifle. I wonder how it got to your shores? Must be an interesting story there somewhere. The rifling extends to the rear except for that 1mm bright lip which is the leade. Hopefully you can tell us later how it feels when you load pellets of different head sizes. Maybe we can correlate accuracy with the feel of loading the pellet?
Siraniko
BB,
This makes me wish I still had one of my 300s. Those were sweet. Ah well. We play with them for a while and then pass them on.
RR,
Don’t know but the thought of losing my 300 makes me break out in a cold sweat!!! I would probably consider selling my first born before selling my 300 LOL!
Hank,
They are most definitely nice. I may have to find me another beater to overhaul.
RR
And thank you very much for selling them to me.
I still have one. The other went to Buldawg. From what I remember he sold it a while back.
But they are definitely cool guns.
GF1,
I’ll trade you a Diana 46E for it. It is a real smooth shooter now.
RR
Nope don’t think so.
🙂
B.B.
Thanks for an excellent report. I can not wait for part 2.
How much do you think it would cost if somebody or FWB, would make a spring target airgun to these high standards today? Maybe you can convince your friends at Crossman ……?
-Yogi
Yogi,
Is it still possible to do? Yes, I think it is. But with the huge success of the far simpler PCP target gun, no manufacturer will be willing to invest the time and money to do it. It would be like making a model A ford with air conditioning.
B.B.
B.B.
I had the same thoughts as Yogi – if the rifle is worth big $$$$ that it could be made and sold as a “genuine imitation”.
You would think that someone could laser-scan the parts and have a CNC machine hog a bunch of them out of a block of steel for a reasonable price (the same way that they created the dinosaurs for Jurassic Park from DNA samples 🙂 ).
No expensive production tooling required to whip out a small run of rifles. Maybe someone with machine-shop experience could comment on the feasibility of such a project.
Air-conditioning for a Model A eh? LOL!!
Hank
Yogi,
The closest one in production to this would be a Diana/RWS 48 tuned to 6 fpe.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
Does a RWS 48 shoot really well at 6 fpe? I have a 52 that I bought a long time ago when I thought faster was better and fixed barrel was more accurate than breakbarrel. I have thought about attempting to slow it down to make it more shootable, but didn’t know if it could be done effectively or easily. Have you actually shot a detuned 48?
Half
Halfstep
Try it and let us know.
I have slowed down guns and they became more accurate. And I also had gones not be as accurate.
It seems there is a magic velocity with different pellets in different guns.
GF1,
I’ve had the gun since a few years after they started makin’ ’em but I didn’t, and still don’t, want to invest the time or money in detuning it if I don’t have a reference to guide me through it and some proven results afterwards. It is a gun that could hurt me if I do something wrong and it isn’t a cheap Wally World special that I won’t lose much on if I mess it up. Won’t be jumping into it lightly.
You’re right about mounting a bipod that way, though it still wouldn’t be as practical to cock as a side lever.
Half
Halfstep
So we will never know then.
Only one to know. To do.
GF1,
HUH?
Halfstep
Only one way to find out. Tune it and see. Or do your u mean you don’t know which way to go about doing it.
GF1,
I didn’t understand this, ” Only one to know. To do.”, from your comment above. I guess your phone got you again.
Half
Halfstep
Yep should of been only one way to know is to do.
Halfstep
And right. The leg would have to be folded up for cocking each time with a side lever.
And I did try the scope mounted bi-pod on my Tx. Even as smooth as it shot it didn’t seem to like the bi-pod mounted that way.
And I have not tryed a stock mounted bi-pod on a springer to know how they would shoot with one.
GF1,
I actually meant that a side lever with a conventional bipod mount would still be easier to cock than an under lever equipped with your scope mounted bipod.
Half
Halfstep
Yep compared to a side lever and regular bipod mount.
But the Tx was easy to cock still with my scope mounted bi-pod. The cocking lever was longer than the bi-pod legs. So it cocked as normal. The legs weren’t in the way.
Guns not be as accurate.
Not gones.
Halfstep,
Actually? No, but the build of the FWB 110 is very similar to the RWS 48 which doesn’t have the sliding recoil mechanism that I think is the closest anyone can get to a replica of that model. Much as I would like to detune my brother’s M48 he doesn’t agree yet. 😉
Siraniko
Siraniko,
This is what I told Yogi earlier.
There are people who do take modern sproingers and convert them to top shelf competition air rifles. Hector Medina is one of them. He himself shoots a Diana 54 that he has tuned back to just under 12 FPE. The 54 has a side cocking lever and a recoil system similar to the FWB 300.
Yes , but PCP’s just aren’t very interesting….
Even Jaguar has taken a few old XKE bodies and made new cars with them.
-Y
Yogi,
There are people who do take modern sproingers and convert them to top shelf competition air rifles. Hector Medina is one of them. He himself shoots a Diana 54 that he has tuned back to just under 12 FPE. The 54 has a side cocking lever and a recoil system similar to the FWB 300.
RR
And it’s even a bull pup now if I remember right.
GF1,
I have not seen that version yet. I think I may have seen a thumbhole stock version.
RR
The last I saw was a 54 converted to a bullpup with a custom made stock.
And that’s been some years back now.
RR
Here is the 54 bullpup I’m talking about. It was Ray Apelles that shot it. Not Hector. The picture is from a PA blog did a while back.
GF1,
That is way too over the top for me. Ray is one of those guys who take the competition way too seriously for me. He is one of the reasons I am not interested in field target. He drops a small fortune in his rig and literally practices every day. I shoot for fun.
RR
But maybe that’s his fun. 😉
Gunfun1,
With a SHOOTING GLOVE!!!!!!!
LOL!
shootski
Shootski
You sure about that.
Gunfun1,
I’m certain about it being a shooting glove!
But I also know from your past comments about your feeligs on shooting clothing! And, RR knowshis fun isn’t the UBER serious approach of Ray or Hans Apelles!
As you so we’ll put it, “But maybe that’s his fun.”
shootki
Shootski
Oh and forgot.
I don’t like shooting with gloves. Even as a kid in the Midwest winter’s hunting on the farm.
I always want the feel of the gun in my hands.
I become one with the gun if you know what I mean. I think that’s why I do shoot good. That’s what I have taught my daughter’s too.
A glove keeps that from happening. And yes I know it’s a different kind of glove. Then there is driving gloves too that people said I should try. Not for me. I want to feel what I do.
And yes shooting gloves give support. But I believe that the natural feel of holding the gun should be felt. After all every gun is different and needs to be held it’s own way.
Shootski
Yep as said before. Why do it if it ain’t no fun.
Yogi,
You can buy kits to tune many of the quality sproingers available today. Many of the kits reduce the power and smooth out the shot cycle.
The main issue with the manufacturers is that so many people in the USA are in pursuit of speed and power. With sproingers that comes with a price, accuracy. The market for this kind of sproinger is very small. This sproinger is probably only popping at around 6 FPE.
If you want accuracy you are going to pay for it one way or another.
RidgeRunner, Siraniko, Halfstep, Vana2,
Yes you could detune a Diana 48, but it would not have anywhere near the build quality of this FWB 110.
I detuned, short stroked, custom stocked an HW 50s for my 10 meter 6fpe gun.
Still not a FWB though.
-Y
FWIW-My brother used to have a FWB 65. I just could not get used to the side cocking-I think it is a crime against humanity. Do not ask what I think of PCP’s!
Yogi
The FWB’s definitely got it going on.
But how did that 50 shoot after all that work? Any better than factory condition.
You are a diehard spring guy aren’t you. What do you think about under lever guns after hearing about what you think about side lever guns?
I am a break-barrel guy. It seems so simple. Everything else just does not seem right, kind of like a sportswear with an automatic tranmission..Maybe I should be called Break Barrel Bernie, LOL?
-Y
Yogi
Noth’n wrong with that.
Whatever makes you happy as the saying goes.
Yogi,
What about detuning a FWB 124. I have one of those that I bought because it was fastest at the time ( before the RWS 48/52 came out) and I now think I would like it better at a lower power. Know of any of those tuned lower?
Half
Nope…
B.B.,
A nice look at a rarity. Looking forwards to more.
Is there any actual/perceived advantage to a side lever -vs- an under lever?
The under lever keeps the looks and actual weight balanced. The side lever just the opposite. Beyond that, I do not have a clue. Unless it had something to do with patent infringements at that time period?
Good Day to you and to all,….. Chris
Chris,
I may be mistaken, but I think I read years ago that the side lever is preferred when shooting prone. It is more accessible for cocking in that position.
Half
Chris,
Should have said “prone from a bag or tripod”. Matter of fact, can you even mount a tripod on an underlever?
Half
Halfstep,
(Thank you). That makes perfect sense. Since I do not compete/or do, 3 position, the thought of shooting prone never occurred to me. I am pretty much a bench rest guy.
If I were to get prone,… I would look like a Moose,.. on roller skates,.. getting back up! 🙂 LOL
You might mount a bi-pod on an underlever, if it was mounted to the rear of the cocking slot. I love mine on the M-rod with the RAI stock. Nice for display purposes as well.
Chris
Chris,
I have that look shooting prone, as well. Perhaps you and I could start a chapter of the Brotherhood of Moose on Roller Skates Lodge.
Half
Half,
LOL! 😉 I already have the mascot.
Moose on skates
Royalty-Free Illustration
Download Moose on skates stock illustration. Illustration of animal – 62933154
We will see if this works?
Try again,…
https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-illustration-moose-skates-illustration-depicting-bull-falling-roller-image62933154
Chris,
I’m going to get that tattooed on my lower back, just above my “Tradesman’s Smile”. I’ll shoot prone shirtless and then everyone will be able to see what to expect when I try to get up. 🙂
Half
Hey Halfstep,
Any news on your Gamo Urbans? The pesting has slowed down around here. I haven’t seen a starling in weeks and sparrows even seem to be scarce.
Three weeks ago I saw a gopher go under my hose reel. I went over and gave it a kick and out came Mr. gopher. He ran across the yard to one of the flower gardens. I tried to cut him off to keep him from coming back towards the house and I pull a calf muscle severely. I had to go to doctor to get it checked. It’s been three weeks and it’s just getting back to normal. I have been watching for Mr. gopher and hadn’t seen a sign of him until this past Thursday when I spotted him out under my bird feeders. I got the Urban out and got revenge on Mr. gopher.
Forgot that I am 71, and not 21 anymore 🙁 No more chasing gophers I guess.
Geo
That’s why you got the Urban so you don’t got to chase them. 🙂
Geo,
Chris USA am I are starting a chapter of the Brotherhood of Moose on Roller Skates because of our current strength,speed, flexibility and agility. Wanna join?
Half
Half,
Yup…regarding the “Brotherhood of Moose on Roller Skates”, I’m in.
GF1,
No place to reply below. I understand what you are saying. I just didn’t have the Urban in hand at the time and I wanted to set him up for the kill…silly me.
Geo
There’s different ways to head em off at the pass if ya know what I mean.
No run’n for me anymore.
Geo
Don’t you hate when that happens.
Halfstep
I bet you don’t. 😉
Halfstep
Rember my scope mounted bi-pod legs on a picatinny tri-mount.
Would work for a under lever.
B.B.,
A common error folks make with these side-cocking FWBs is to grasp the latch at the end of the lever to cock the rifle rather than pull on the actual lever only. The latch is not strong enough to survive a lifetime of being yanked on.
Michael
Michael
I don’t think I recall seeing any 150 or 300’s with the 110 cocking lever.
But have definitely heard of the 110 cocking lever.
Gunfun1,
What I was referring to is the small hinged lever at the end of the cocking arm that releases the latch. The tendency is to pull on that latch while cocking the rifle. That is a mistake, however. One should unlatch the cocking lever and then slide his hand down a few inches and grasp the lever only (not the latch) and pull on the lever alone. The latch is not stout enough to be used that way again and again.
As far as I know, the 110, 150, 300, and 300s all have a similar latch at the end of the cocking lever.
Michael
Michael
Your talking about latch I have circled in red in the picture.
Yes I always push the arm in the push the let down before opening the arm to cock it.
Yep my phone again.
Yes I always push the arm in towards the action then push the latch down before opening the arm to cock it.
BF1,
As long as you pull on the lever alone — and not the latch — to cock the gun, I think you’re O.K. Reaching out to the latch provides more leverage, so it is tempting to pull on it, but it is not good for the rifle, or so I recall reading somewhere online.
Michael
Michael
The 110 has a different mechanism than the 150 and 300. Maybe some 150’s have the same knuckle type lever as the 110.
The 300 needs to be cocked like I said. You should push in on the arm first before pressing down on the latch. Then pull the arm open.
If you pull straight out first on the latch I circled in red. You will eventually shear of the locking latch.
The knuckle type can probably be pulled straight out to cock since the knuckle unlatches the arm.
Michael
Here I’ll bring the 110 arm down here so you can compare the differences.
Gunfun1,
I stand corrected! :^)
I never really noticed, but my 300s has the push-down latch you pictured above with the circle. My 150 has the one like the 110 in the picture immediately above.
Michael
Michael
It’s all good.
And I have to say I kind of like the knuckle joint arm better. Just adds to making the gun a little different than others.
BB
It’s nice to see about this gun. And glad you brought that up about the worth of the gun compared to what the blue book says. There is different reasons a gun could be worth more than what someone or something says.
Are you going to get to show any groups from when you shot the gun?
GF1,
Yes, there will be some groups.
B.B.
BB
Good about the group’s.
And do you have any idea how much the 110 costed new?
GF1,
It was probably around $225-350.
B.B.
BB
Thanks.
B.B.
The pics of the breech setup reminded me of the B3 .
How close would the FWB breech seal come from working on a B3 ?
tt
TT,
I have no idea, but a dozen B3 seals are about $15 on Ebay.
B.B.
B.B.,
Here you will find some interesting information about FWB and in particular the 110:
https://www.co2air.de/thema/22086-feinwerkbau-modell-110/
Also, thank you for the information on the slide to rails fit on the ASG CZ75 SP-01.
The barrel inside of a tube is interesting! So as a guess, the barrel remains more or less stationary and the slide and tube do the reciprocation? Uuf da!
shootski
B.B.,
As always, I (and many other, I’m sure) appreciate your attention to detail as well as your sense of history.
I enjoyed the comparison of the FWB 110 to the FWB 150 and FWB 300
(ah, the awesome FWB 300…the gun for which I lusted in my youth…but could never afford *sigh*).
And while I knew that only 1100 Walker Colts were made, I did NOT realize the crazy cash for which they are selling.
Hence, once again, you have come through with an interesting read!
Looking forward to the next installment,
and wishing a pleasant weekend (of airgun shooting! =>) to all,
dave
Dave
Yep the awesome 150 and 300’s.
And I wanted one as a kid also. Still got my old ARH catolog with them in in it.
Definitely cool guns.
Ah, the gold old ARH catalog…how many of us got started in airguns reading that? Likely many. =)
Dave
Yep.
🙂
Dave,
Like you I lusted for a FWB 300 ever since I first saw one in the Beeman catalog. Took 30 years before cash and opportunity landed one in my lap – been smiling ever since.
Put a scope on mine and am thinking about making a sport stock for it – have a couple of nicely figured pieces of maple out aside.
Have a great weekend!
Hank
“Took 30 years before cash and opportunity landed one in my lap – been smiling ever since.”
Awesome! Good for you. =)
I have been reading up above that many of you bemoan the lack of quality to be found with Feinwerkbau air rifles, but no one seems to remember this little jewel.
/blog/?s=Feinwerkbau+Sport&btnGo=
If I was to get a .177 sproinger, I might give this one VERY serious consideration.
BB,
What happened? You never finished testing this one for us.
RR,
Just followed your link and bounced to the Pyramydair page. Noticed that they list the cocking effort as 33 pounds on the Sport, a bit surprised at that, my 124 is only 19-20 pounds cocking force for close to the same velocity (with light pellets).
I’m not in the market for another sproinger but I’d sure jump on one if I had a chance… I’m very fond of Feinwerkbau products.
Good weekend eh!
Hank
Hank,
It is indeed a handsome, well made rifle. My main issue with it is the fact that it needs a serious tuning right out of the box. I think that is why I have not pursued this one. When I think of Feinwerkbau, I think of the pinnacle of air rifles.
From what BB says the quality of the build is there, but they stopped short inside the compression tube. I am willing to bet that the F mark version (7.5 joule) is a super smooth, quiet shooter. For the export market they probably just slapped a more powerful spring in there without changing things like the spring guide, etc.
At that price I do not want to go in there and fix what they should have done in the factory.
On the flip side of the coin if I was to do such I would have a superb sproinger that if cared for would be worth a small fortune in a few years, worthy of a spot on the wall with my others.
RR
My main complaint about my FWB is that it is terribly difficult to get a good zero . The smallest amount of wind makes visible POI shifts .
If I was shooting something that resembles a shotgun, I would not have this problem . I would never see the POI shifts .
tt
TT
What fps does yours shoot at?
GF
800
tt
TT
So not enough power?
GF
That must be it . Not enough power to make the laws of physics to stop working .
tt
TT
Don’t you hate when that happens. 😉
TT,
That is why I have been most hesitant to get the FWB Sport. I have been more interested in .22. I have my Hatsan/Webley Tomahawk that I hope to have time to tinker with this fall. I would really like to get an adjustable gas spring for it.
BB or anyone,
Any insight into how much European companies base their designs around the lower power restrictions in that part of the world. Are they after those sales or does the USA and other ” unrestricted” countries offer enough sales that American trends guide the design process and all other countries get whatever low power version they can turn it into? Since the Germans seem to want to stick to the drooping barrels on their springers, in spite of American’s penchant for scopes, yet were willing to step into the power race in the ’80s with offerings like the Model 48, I can’t tell who is getting the prime benefit of the design work.
I have often wondered if pellet design, as well, was geared more towards the lower power guns of the countries producing them. I feel that I have been seeing more pellets shoot more accurately from my guns that have been dialed back some, where possible.
Any thoughts?
Half
Half,
Until recent years the European countries based their designs upon that market. However with the growing US market they are starting to cater their sales towards here. The newer designs are reflective of sales here. Most of the older designs are better suited to lower power.
Also the inherent actions and reactions of sproingers are better suited to the lower powers. The more powerful a sproinger is, the more difficult it is to shoot accurately. It becomes more hold sensitive and usually more pellet picky. There is still a lot more R&D to be done to produce truly accurate, powerful sproingers. Dig back through what BB has posted concerning his R1 and all of what he has done with it and you will know what I am referring to.
RR
Thanks. That aligns pretty well with what I was thinking, especially the “pellet picky” part. I’ll look at those R1 reports,also.
Half
BB,
Another question in my head. Whatever happened to the Vortek gas piston kit for the HW95? I was real excited about that. If I remember it leaked down on you. What is the status of this?
RR,
He hasn’t sent it back yet. I let things like this take their own time to find out how responsive a vendor is.
B.B.
Hello B.B.
Since this group gets off topic all the time I was wondering when you was going to complete Part 3 of the 102?
I have been watching that one close and it actually got me fired up to finally get it working. Since mine was in such bad shape I just decided to go custom route. If I got rid of it would only be due to running out of ideas. Mine is the one with the steel barrel so 1947 to 1948 if I remember the Blue Book information. Now the question I have is Crosman didn’t recommend more than 4 pumps. With mine I had to pull the pump assy and wipe out the excess oil. After doing that the speed and pumping went up. Also at 8 pumps I can almost get off 3 shots. 2 strong and 1 weak.
Now the fun part. I had a pellet in the chamber and forgot to cock it before pumping. When the pump completed it shot the H&N Sport pellet out the barrel hard enough to put a 1/4 deep dent in my office ceiling. So from what I am seeing are we really maybe over pumping the 101 series? If all the air exhaust at 8 pumps on mine it will bury or flatten pellets in my 35 foot shooting area.
I enjoy the blog and decided to get more involved. I was involved years ago before life got in the way. So here I am back. Maybe a blog idea of the artwork of advertising from the early days. I sent you a copy of a early Remington firearms poster I had found in the walls of a house back years ago. Even Remington cannot find it in their archives.
Have a Marvelous day.
Jeffrey,
Welcome to the blog.
The 102 is standing by awaiting Part 3. I have just been caught up with other oldies like the 110.
I will look into the pumping issue you mention.
B.B.
Jeffery
I too saw in the Crosman 101 operating manual https://support.crosman.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/201589650/C101-OM.pdf that a maximum of 4 pumps are recommended. However everyone seems to consider 8 pumps ok,including the air gunsmith Rick Willnecker who rebuilt my 101. Myself I just use 6 pumps because my gun has a well figured front stock and I would hate to break it by over stressing it. There is also a lot of other good info on disassembly and trouble shooting in there as well.
Carl
Coduece,
Yes I have seen all the information. As stated mine is of the last years of production. I had just rebuilt it from the ground up. As you read with even one pump and not cocked it still moves a pellet quite faster out of the steel barrel. I really am not worried about the wear on my 102 since it was in basically scrap shape when I got it. I can build or fix anything I break, I just fine it funny how it will go 2 full power shots on 8 to 10 pumps. That is part of the reason I asked the question is to see if anyone else is having similar experiences.
Thank you for the input
Jeffrey
All,
While doing scope research, I ran across this site. I (highly) recommend it for reading the articles. Many good things covered and in pretty deep detail,…. but not so much so that your brain gets numb. Many of them would benefit any shooter. Highly recommend.
https://www.primalrights.com/library/articles
It is amazing to know again, what I had forgotten,… not to mention learning new things. A refresher now and again is not a bad idea.
Chris USA
Good post you made July 7, 2018 at 2:03 pm. I bookmarked the site. Thanks.
Decksniper
Decksniper,
Glad to assist in anyone’s learning. There is a lot of good stuff out there. I have even more saved that I need to review,… again. When it comes to ultimate precision and doing (everything) right,… there is so much to learn. More so,.. so much to remember. It easy to forget, fall into a routine, pick up bad habits without even realizing it and just proceed on. Given less trigger time,… even more so.
That holds true for powder burners as well as airguns.
Chris
Chris
Maybe it’s time you set a procedure up every time you pick up a gun to shoot.
When you repeat that naturally is when you don’t have to go back and reference something.
It’s good to have something to reference. But it’s better to know it second nature.
I saw that link you posted earlier. I didn’t respond. Was wondering why you posted it. To help you remember or for the others that haven’t yet seen those things.
All good. Or then again did you post it just to bring conversation. Which seems to happen at times.
GF1,
I was (just sharing) something I found along the way in finding out more about FFP scopes.
Yes, second nature is best. In fact, while I (did not) read it, there was an article in that link that I posted that pretty much said that you shoot best when you are (not) thinking. So yes,… lots of practice and things becoming automatic are best.
Lack of regular shooting is one of my largest downfalls at the moment.
When you really look (deeply) into what it takes to do (everything) right,… you have a lot of respect for those that compete at high levels.
Chris
When one has shot many, many hours. How does the other catch up?
They can’t. But they shoot as much as they can to do the best they can.
Chris,
Those are some interesting looking rifles they have. I notice that they share the same issues as with many bullpup air rifles, the bolt handle requires too much arm movement to operate. The versatility of the platform has a strong appeal though.
RR,
I had not even looked at the rifles. I linked it for the precision shooting articles. For me, I have to like the looks of something and want comfort and ergonomics,.. ideally. While the bull pup designs may work good, they just do not do it for me.
Looking forwards to trying the Sportsmatch rings that you recommended. The Athlon manual even recommends using adjustable mounts if possible and using the turrets for fine/final adjustment.
Ditto what Decksniper said.
Half
Chris, great link; thank you!
BB,
Thank you for the info. I am a fortunate FWB 110 owner from South Africa. Bought it at a Pawn Shop, how lucky. Mine has a left-hand walnut stock. The FWB 110 and 150 had the same manual.The manual mentions its availability in the left-hand stock, but with no other changes. Looking forward to part 2.
Regards,
Njappers
Njappers,
Welcome to the blog!
A 110 with a left hand walnut stock?!!! Surely it doesn’t get any better than that! Now please don’t tell me you are right-handed!
Thanks for the info on the manual. I have a manual that has the 150 and 300, so there was some overlap as time passed.
B.B.
Njappers
Well I’ll bet that’s a rare one. Lucky you.
I will share some pictures. The stock looks like a 150s with a space for the slide mechanism.
Could be the way the factory supplied it.
Njappers,
Yes, but because it is a left hand stock it is also possible that the owner switched the original 110 right hand stock with a left hand 150. At least we now know they fit.
Thanks,
B.B.
B.B.,
In the link I posted above to the German Group of airgunners: there are some very interesting discussions about hybrid 110-150s built by factory technitions, along with restocking with Nusbaum Shaft (Nut Tree stock = Walnut) of 110s along with hybrid 110 with the sliding action mounted in 150 stocks. They are claiming that all the 110s were fitted with Buche (Beech with a special finish that brought out the grain.). They also discussed that most of them only believed that the 110 might just be Legend (before the post by the individual with the 110 barreled action in a 150 stock,) they go on to say just like the mytical FWB 200!
shootski
Shootski
Sounds like skunk works to me. That was a big thing in the 60’s when the muscle car wars was happening. Crosman did it too. And I’m sure other manufacturers of different products.
Now that’s we’re the fun is at. To me anyway.
Shootski,
On your above (out of room) comment to GF1 (shooting gloves),… I find it (all) of interest. Not that I would ever go to the end’s of clothing, gloves and such, but it obviously has a purpose and it obviously works,.. and I have resect for that.
For now, I will just focus on maintaining basic shooting techniques and further study of advanced precision shooting.
Chris
Chris USA,
Greg Dykstra at Primal has an interesting (and familiar to me techniques of instruction) approach to shooting as well as some nice products. Thanks Forums is of interest particularly the airgun forum for what it lacks…shame. But in SD not folks wouldn’t be thinking AG!
I know you have complained about lack of time to shoot because of work. Dryfire everyday is the answer to make up for that. Once you have your rifle set up just a simple dot, or better still 10M single target, mounted somewhere convenient to do 10 perfect dryfire PRACTICE shots offhand/Kneeling/prone (even sitting in a chair) will make you an order of magnitude better shooter. Won’t take it 10 minutes a day…of course twice a day is almost two times GOODER!
shootski
Shootski,
Thank you. Dry fire is something that I have never practiced. I know that B.B. has mentioned it for when he used to shoot competition pistol. I will try.
Question: On adjustable butt pads (up/down and also L/R cant),… what is the preferred contact to the shoulder socket? I shoot left and have mine adjusted so that it is pointed inward,.. or to the (chest). It feels good and points well, but now I am wondering if it should not be oriented to the outside (shoulder).
Any thoughts?
Chris
Chris USA,
Even if we were standing side by side and I tried to tell you how to adjust your buttstock I would be mostly blowing smoke. So no SMOKE, Lol. But, you could use a mirror!
Once you shoulder the rifle and adjust you sighting system you need to shoulder it and point it at that dryfire target we talked about. When you find your natural hold if it doesn’t coincide with the desired POA (Point Of Aim) then you start adjusting the adjustable parts of your rifle.
Length of pull would be my first choice. Eye to sight and trigger to finger is all important. If you need to change finger to trigger you can build with blue tape. On the other hand if you need to change the distance to less then it takes a RASP! Yes I know it is a beautiful stock!!!
So hopefully the trigger adjustability will be enough!
As far as the up-down and L-R on the buttstock that comes down to feel. On your shoulder there are spots that give ON BONE contact see if your natural hold is close, then adjust that to optimize the contact for stability. In-out really make no difference you are simply looking what gives YOU maximum stability and easy comfort. The problem is that that is for one position only. You will need to figure out how to replicate the SET of the adjustable parts for each position and record them in your shooter’s log.
Big help huh!
shootski
Shootski,
Yea,.. it was a big help. 🙂 I did adjust the trigger LOP. It does that at the trigger as it is on a dove tail that gives about 1″ adjustment. I went forwards. I also adjusted trigger/shoe cant, to the left.
I am 6′ 4″ and have large hands, so fatter grips and longer pull/reach to the trigger works for me.
I do remember reading of “natural hold” on (more than one) occasion in the past. Yes, that would be hold/position specific. I have played with it and found it to be beneficial. That is another reason that I wanted something with full (as possible) adjustability. I usually always bench, so I will work with that first.
I can see why those high end competition rifles resemble something akin to an erector set. It is not a matter of what you can adjust,… but rather,… what CAN’T you adjust.
I will adjust the butt the other way and see if it feels any better while also paying attention to “bone” feedback. I will know that I have it when it just locks/settles in naturally.
In the end,.. as I remember,… it is what feels right to you (while at the same time not being mistaken that something feels right,.. but is actually wrong). Just trying to do it right.
Thanks again,… Chris
Here we go:
Nice
Just got to say.
Finally got some days off from work. Was ready for some quality shooting time.
And guess what happens. It’s been extremely windy everyday.
I shot. Got some good groups actually. The wind was consistent is the best I can say.
All in all still enjoyed the days off and shooting time at will.
And I’ll still take windy days of over a calm day shoot’n and work’n. So close to retiring. But still so far away. Hope ya all that are retired are enjoying your days. Every minute of them. 🙂
Gunfun1
Yep retirement is fabulous. Simply best years of my life. Only folks who have hobbies agree.
Decksniper
Decksniper
Thank God. I was hoping it would be that way.
Enjoy life. What more can I say.
B.B.,
I’ve been off line for a few days. Regarding the CZ75, as they would say in our day, “now your cooking with gas”. I hope you enjoy both the co2 and powder versions. Previously, some time ago, you mentioned that the CZ looked to be good ergonomically. I hope you find it to be so now that you have the real deal.
I have been saying a prayer for you, my friend.
~ken
Ken,
The next chapter comes this week, I hope.
B.B.
Ken,
Sorry, I meant next week.
B.B.
B.B.,
I’ll be watching for it.
~ken
Hi,
I’m another South African lucky enough to have a FWB110.
I got mine in 1998 from a fellow Air rifle competitor at the Pietermaritzburg Air Riffle Club that used to meet in an old Methodist Church in Chapel St.
Unfortunately, I lent mine to a relative to has let it fall in to bad disrepair. I got it back in a pile of spares. Very upset. But am busy restoring it currently.
Is there anyone who can assist me with more details on the piston seals and original stock varnish?
Neil,
Welcome to the blog.
Can anyone help him?
B.B.
Neil,
Just looked it up in the Blue Book. $1800.00 for one in 100% condition. ((less than 200 made)),… so it IS rare! 🙂
I am sorry I can be of no help. Keep searching the net. Maybe U.K. sites?
Try posting again on the Fri. blog as it runs F,S and S (3 days),… so more people will see it.
Best wishes,… keep us posted,…. and of course,….. WELCOME too! 😉
Chris
Thanks Chris.
It’s 100%. All original, except the seals. I managed to get an engineering shop here to turn new ones for me.
I’ve cleaned it up nicely.
Stock will be fully restored by next week and I’ll reassemble it.
I’ll post pics then☺️
Neil,
Very glad that you are getting it all fixed up. While the Blue Book has hundreds of pictures, it did not have the 110 shown. Very much looking forwards to your pic(s) when it is all done.
Chris
Hi Chris,
Mine is the one shown ☺️
Hi Chris,
Finally got her back together. Shot her today. Groups a treat, especially considering I was using cheap pellets; I was shooting outside and I’m rusty. Sorry about my improvised eye piece
Hi Chris,
Had a very informative email discussion with FWB.
My model 110 was made in Sept 1968. It was accidentally recorded as a model 150. But the confirmed mine was a model 110.
The model 150 was the recoilless one. They were made at the same time. Many model 110s are actually model 150, but incorrectly marked. So the actual number of 110s produced was much lower than 200. No one really knows the actual number.
Neil82,
Thank you for the update. I bet you are looking forwards to shooting some quality lead through it? Cool on the 110/150 snafu. That means that yours is worth even more,… or should be.
Keep us posted in the future and see you in the current/daily blog. Anything air gun is open for the daily discussion.
Chris
Neil82,
What material did the engineering shop use to make replacement seals?
Siraniko
Hi Siraniko,
Polypropylene
Neil82,
Thanks for the information. Hopefully you can update us how it performs in the long run.
Siraniko
Sorry man, think I’m confusing myself. It may have been Polyurethane. It’s a yellow rubber we use for 4×4 shock mountings. My Dad is the engineering brain. I don’t understand half of what him and the other engineers were discussing, I just like to shoot haha
Neil82,
No problem! Just wanted to find out what material the replacement was made from. B.B. did a recent article on seal materials and I just wanted to know what you used in yours. Even then I still would be curious how long your replacement will last, I’m going to be in the same boat sooner or later and any added information is going to be helpful.
Siraniko
Neil82,
Thanks for the information. Hopefully you can update us how it performs in the long run.
Siraniko
Neil82,
Thanks for the information. Hopefully you can update us how it performs in the long run.
Siraniko