by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Umarex Gauntlet.
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
This report covers:
- 50-yard test
- Time to fold
- Scope mount problem
- Problem solved!
- Sight-in
- 25-yard group
- Summary
Today I will bring you up to date on all that has been done with the Umarex Gauntlet PCP rifle. It has been two and one-half months since you read anything about this rifle, but I have been doing things and have tried to test the Gauntlet before now. Here is what happened.
50-yard test
I went to the range in early April for a 50-yard test. Unfortunately that day I had also invited a member of my church out to zero his AR-15, and it turned out he did not know how to do it. I ended up spending a lot of time getting him zeroed, plus I lent him my sandbag that I would normally use for any 50-yard PCP test. I shot the Gauntlet off a pile of wadded up rags and gun bags. Even so, the test was still good, if not ideal.
But the time I spent helping my friend allowed the Texas wind to pick up and by the time I tried to shoot groups there was a stiff variable breeze. I also discovered that the reticle in the UTG 3-12X32 Bug Buster scope was thick enough to cover 1/4 to 3/8-inch at 50 yards, so my aiming wasn’t as precise as I would like. On top of that, the day was dark and the Bug Buster scope wasn’t as clear as I would have hoped.
Time to fold
When all things were considered, the 1.5- to 2-inch groups I was getting were not good enough to show. I would have told you all that I went through to get them and you would have asked for a better test, so I just cut out the middle man.
Scope mount problem
Other stuff arose as things always do, and when I went back to the Gauntlet to remove the Bug Buster I discovered the shims I had used to tighten the scope bases on the receiver. Some readers criticized me for doing that — thinking that the UTG P.O.I rings I used were the problem. Well, they weren’t. I spent the next two months (off and on, as time permitted) trying all the other scope mounts I have on the Gauntlet. All those I tried were too large, when tightened as tight as they would go.
You gave me grief when I told you what I did to get the scope rings to tighten before.
Now, don’t get all hyper about this. I only tried maybe five different ring sets besides the P.O.I. mounts. I’m sure there are many rings that do fit, but I want you to be aware that the Gauntlet dovetail is on the smaller side. I even checked with AirForce, to see if I could squeeze down the base on a BKL mount to fit. They didn’t know whether it would work but told me to give it a try.
Problem solved!
But this past Tuesday evening I got a brainstorm. What if I used a UTG Weaver ring with a UTG 11mm Dovetail to Weaver adaptor? Would that work? Yes, it works perfectly. In fact, let me show you.
The UTG 11mm to Weaver/Picatinney adaptors saved the day.
Here is what they look like installed.
With the mounts secured to the receiver I was ready to mount a scope. Since the Bug Buster was small I decided this time to go with a biggie. I selected an obsolete UTG SWAT 8-32X56 scope that is similar to this one, except for the illuminated reticle. You have to agree, we are not under-scoped this time!
Sight-in
I needed to get the scope sighted in before I head back to the outdoor range, so that came next. After a two and a half month layoff, I had to get used to the Gauntlet all over again. I read most of the past 6 reviews and then started the sight-in. I shimmed the scope with one layer of credit card plastic when I installed it in the rings this time. I do that for all scopes these days. In fact, I am talking to Leapers about making a special 2-piece mount that has the offset already built into the rear ring. Why not? I do it every time I mount a scope.
I used the Gauntlet magazine this time, despite what I had said about it earlier. I planned using Crosman Premier Heavy pellets, and thought they might feed through the mag just fine. I don’t think I had ever tested them. Well, guess what? They do feed! I now know to pull back the bolt all the way, which might have been the problem earlier. Anyway, this target was shot with the mag installed.
25-yard group
The 10 shots went into 0.628 at 25 yards. That’s okay, but it’s over twice the size of the 10-shot group I got with the same pellet fired single-shot in Part 6 (0.303-inches), and even significantly larger than the 10-shot group in Part 5 (0.456-inches) that was also fired single-shot. That suggests a special test for 50 yards — with and without the magazine. That’s a test whose results I want to see!
Ten Crosman Premier heavys made this 0.628-inch group at 25 yards when shot from a magazine.
Summary
I have tested the Gauntlet quite thoroughly, but as the first price-point PCP, it deserved the attention. The nice thing about this series is all the information that’s available to a potential buyer. The 50-yard test comes next.
Those adapters are really a slick item. I used a set on my Umarex APX NPG and mounted a decent 3×9 red/green illuminated reticle scope. With my eyes a new scope is a crap shoot, but this cheapo scope lets me see the target and the cross hairs clearly even without AO. But I do adjust the non-AO fron objective the old fashioned way, by removing the front lock ring and then moving the lens forward and back with the adjuster ring. But, the adapters really are a great tool and easy to use.
Birdmove
Yep agree. I have used those adapters too. They do work good.
Hey Birdmove
Those adapters are nice but I found the one piece scope mounts or 11mm to Weaver 1 piece adapters by Leapers gave a much longer clamp length on the plastic rails. On guns like the APX and Daisy 74 you need as much clamp length as you can get for strength and rigidity. On my APX I use the 11mm to Weaver adapter because of the extra scope height it gives me. The Leapers 1 piece works the best on the Daisy 74.
If you want a good source for quality cheap scopes check out Amazon. I have a bunch of Rio Rand (made in China) scopes that are of exceptional quality and price. Their 6-24×50 AO MD RG is what I am useing on two of my guns now (QB Chief and Savage MK IV Heavy Barrel .22LR) as well as some 3x9x40 and 4x12x40 scopes on other rifles. They’re all excellent scopes for PCP, Pumpers and CO2 guns and I do have one mounted on a sidelever springer AK style Bam B3. Just have to wait to see how that one holds up.
Cheers
Dave
Hey Birdmove
Seems I gave you a bum steer on the Rio Rand scopes.They don’t seem to be available on the Amazon.com(US) site. Instead search for CVLife 6x24x50 AOE RG. They are identical to the Rio Rand right down to the nicely indexed turrets, both elevation and windage. Price is $39.99 USD with free shipping.
B.B.,
I always love the 50 yard test. BIGGER monster scope! Arrrgh, Arrrgh, Arrrgh, Arrrgh. (Home Improvement) 😉
I use a piece of tooth paste tube for shims. Bends easy, forms, has a bit of grip. .011″. Credit card, .032″.
Good Day to you and to all,…. Chris
P.S.,…. Very interested on how that does at 32 mag,…. compared to other brands,.. as I am currently considering something with 24-32 mag. max. Could you offer an opinion on that now????
Chris,
I find the scope clear and bright on full power.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thank you. +1 for UTG. The (a) FFP is also a consideration and some of those with the “windage Christmas tree” on the bottom reticle. I like the mil dots with dashes for 1/2 dot. With the recent acquisition, the UTG may get the thumbs up.
Chris
BB,
Those adapters are really great and they hold really well.
I know these are expensive, but they are really nice. I’m hooked.
/product/sportsmatch-30mm-rings-fully-adjustable-high-11mm-dovetail?a=4353
B.B.
My favored way of mounting scopes on springers is to use a drooper dove-tail to weaver adaptor and then weaver 2 piece rings. Solves all drooper issues and the weaver rings solve all scope creep issues. I do not understand why everybody does not do it this way!
-Y
Yogi,
Yup!,…. had them on the TX and LGU and swear by that set up.
BB
At least you found out the dovetail was small on your Gauntlet.
I have a set of AirForce scope rings on my Gauntlet. They clamp tight on my Gauntlet.
I wonder if there is a size variance from gun to gun with the Gauntlet dovetail? Or did you get a undersize one?
When I get home from work I’ll see if I got room to measure across the top of the dovetail on my Gauntlet. Then I’ll post that dimension. And maybe you can measure your Gauntlet and then we can see if there is a difference.
I posted to soon.
Suppose to say I tryed some AirForce rings on my Gauntlet. They clamped down tight.
Then I went to my next thought and wrote that down instead of finishing the reply.
I was going to say I have some rings that came with a UTG scope that was a little taller than the AirForce rings I had on it. So that’s what’s on my Gauntlet now. And they clamp fine also.
Figured I should give that info also.
GF1,
Across the top is just one dimension. When B-Square created their adjustable scope mounts we used calibrated wires in each dovetail cut and measures across. That takes the depth and angle of the cut into account.
B.B.
BB
That’s right too. But all we are wanting to do right now is see if my gun was made close to what yours is.
If I measure across the top and write it down. Then get the blades of the caliper down in the groove and write it down. Then you do the same we will probably see some difference because of how thick the blade is on each of our calipers for the bottom groove. But we should get pretty much the same reading across the top.
If the dovetails are made in close tolerance to each other our top reading should be pretty much the same. The bottom reading in the groove we might be off a bit to each other’s measurements. But we shouldn’t be off by much because they make the blade on calipers pretty much the same on different brands.
And it’s going to take alot like .010″- .020″ on the bottom depth being smaller to make a difference in clamping. If the dovetails are that much difference between the two guns dovetails we got a problem. Or should I say Umarex has a tolerance problem.
If different readers measure thier Gauntlets like we do and post some dimensions that could tell the story.
Those adapters work great. I have three sets and have used them on several different airguns at various times.
I too use the UTG adapters as the bubble level scope comes with weaver mounts, using the adapters allowed me to mount the scope on my TX and gave the perfect mounting height for the 56 mm objective.
And the sports match rings are another great item the fully adjustable mounts are pretty pricey but these are much more affordable I have them on my HW50, and I’m not sure why you would need the lateral adjustment anyways. /product/sportsmatch-30mm-rings-high-adjustable-9-5-11mm-dovetail?a=3508
Carl
Carl,
From my understanding, if your rifle zeros at dead on at say 30, a bit right at 20 and a bit left at 50,… that says the scope/rail is not true to the barrel. Or something in the mounting is off. Lateral adjustable rings fix that. I may consider a set. Heck,…. they got the highly coveted RRR rating from Ridgerunner! He posted a link to what he has.
Chris
Ok got it sounds like the only reason for lateral adjustment is to compensate for a defective gun.
Carl
Carl,
Well, that would be (another) reason. 😉 Not all mounts are perfect, nor all rails, nor all rings,… and maybe most of all,… nor some mount jobs. My take, at least my opinion,.. is that it gives you further options that are easier fixes than alternatives. Example,.. Swap front ring for rear. Swap front ring for rear, BUT also, rotate rear ring 180 degrees. Etc., etc..
Like anything,… it adds options. On the flip side to that,… options can add complications. Lesson? Wish for options,.. and if you get them,… hopefully at least you will have a good idea on how to use them to your benefit.
My 2 cents on the matter,…. Chris
P.S.,…. and the flip side to all of that is that simple is most often the best. Who ever said that air gunning is simple? 😉 LOL
Carl,
How is the Coduece spinner project/venture coming along? I LOVE mine. Both versions! Have you sent any out yet to the air gun media besides B.B. to be tested yet?
Chris
News on the horizon.
Carl
Carl
Is that a “tease” comment,… or WHAT???? 😉
Will be waiting,….. Chris
BB
I have several sets of both peeps and scopes and enjoy trying on different airguns. Mounting and sighting in is a pleasure for me. But this requires adaptors, high mounts, low mounts, lifts and various shapes to accomodate some receivers and loading ports. My point is it is handy to have these in my inventory and many are popular priced. Also yes to Birdmove on adjusting objective lens the old fashioned way on scopes without AO. I am with Yogi on using droop compensators instead of ring shims. My question to you is except in an emergency why would anyone want to shim a rear ring mount knowing the scope can be ruined when tightened?
Decksniper
Decksniper,
I don’t tighten the rings tight enough to dent the scope tube.
B.B.
it amazes me with a new model rifle like the gauntlet where they seemed to have thought of packing a lot of features into it they did not have a weaver rail built in
Mildot52
There could still be issues with a Weaver or Picatinny rail.
If it was machined to small you still wouldn’t have good lock up with the scope ring.
Remember the scope is not shifting back. The rings that BB tryed on his particular gun will not grip tight.
What we need to know right now is what the size is on BB’s Gauntlet. That will tell why the ring clamps are not working on his gun.
What alerts me with his gun is why did multiple rings not clamp tight? But I only used two rings and still have space for more tightening of the clamp with the rings I used.
Do you see what I mean?
yes I do see your point
BB
Ok I suppose on a PCP. But what about if you do that on a spring gun.
If you don’t tighten the scope ring cap tight the scope tube will walk back with a spring gun.
Just like if you don’t have a scope ring stop on a spring gun.
GF1,
I always let the turret block rest against the rear ring of a 2 piece mount when I scope a springer. That was the advice that was commonly given when I bought my first magnum springer back in the 80’s. That stops the rearward slippage inside the rings.
I would be interested in establishing whether BB’s Gaunlet has an undersized scope rail,too. It’s not going to be such a good bargain if there is a high probability that you’ll have to spring for an adapter and live with a setup that might be higher than you prefer.
Half
Everyone,
The Gauntlet scope rail is not undersized. It’s on the small side.
With the scope mounted it is impossible to get an accurate reading of the cuts, but the top measures 0.432-inches across. That’s almost 11mm. It sound big enough, so the cuts must be too great an angle or something.
No way am I going to take the scope off, now that I have it sighted-in for the next test.
B.B.
BB
I just measured mine. It is .455″ across the top. I couldn’t measure down in the groove either with the scope on. And I ain’t taking my scope off either. Got it sighted good.
So my Gauntlet does have a significantly bigger dovetail than your gun has.
BB
Forgot that makes mine just over 11 mm.
GF1,
M-rod,.. 12.14 mm. Maximus,.. 10.65 mm. No problems with either on rings. Measured at top.
Chris
Yep and that’s what I mean. That’s a big difference.
So that still makes me wonder what will happen if BB would try the precision rings on other guns to see how they clamp up on them.
I measured my Gauntlet at .450 across the top and .405 in the grooves. The low cost scope rings from the home and garden store work just fine on it.
Gerald
Gerald
That’s close to what mine measured than what BB’s Gauntlet measured.
Gunfun1,
As you may know 11 mm dovetail is not actually a standard, B.B.’s look at dovetail mounts some time ago. /blog/2007/03/11mm-scope-dovetails-why-do-they-interchange-with-38/
Mike
Mike
I do know that.
That’s what I’m talking about. You add scope ring dimensions that a given manufacturer uses and dovetail dimensions various gun makers use. At some point in time your going to end up with ring that don’t clamp good.
We in quality called that adverse tolerance stack up. Murphy’s Law, and Murphy was an optimist.
Halfstep
Right about the turret by the rear scope ring. But on some guns and scopes you run into situations where you can’t do that. The loading port or tube legnths are usually the cause. Makes it hard to get eye relief right.
And I have ran into the problem on other guns with the scope rings not clamping tight on the dovetails. It’s pretty common actually. I believe like BB has said in the past that different ring manufacturers have thier own dimensions they follow and also gun manufacturers with the dovetails. So now we got multiple dimensions varying.
It’s just comes down to finding what ring works for what gun. And there are some rings that take that guess can work out like the UTG rings that have the split down the middle.
And also that’s why I would like to see BB try the precision rings on different guns to see ow they fit on them. You just don’t never know what a scope ring will fit like on a given gun.
GF1,
I can see where it won’t always work out, but I only have a few springers and it has worked on all of them.
Half
Halfstep
Yep and the more guns you get and rings you get sooner or later you will run into the clamping problem.
BB
I’m referring to your comment about not tightening enough to dent the scope tube.
GF1,
But we are talking about a PCP. Spring guns get different treatment.
B.B.
BB
Oh yeah I forgot drooper mounts on spring guns. No need to shim them.
Sorry but I still think shims under the rear scope ring saddle is the wrong way to go.
Off set Burris rings I still believe would be best. Or if they machined the front and rear saddle for a drooper angle in the ring would be what I would choose.
Widage is usually no big deal. But elevation sighting will be different from gun to gun and weight if ammo used.
GF1
If you have to shim the scope ring on a spring gun you could use a folded piece of 80 grit sand paper. I could be wrong but I think it would keep it from walking.
Gerald
Gerald
If your talking scope ring saddle where the scope tube sets in I wouldn’t do it. Done learned that lesson.
And most better quality spring guns have scope stop holes in the dovetail for the scope ring stop set screw. So no ring walk if that’s done.
What I have seen if you shim the scope will move around. Especially if you don’t check tightness after some shooting.
I’m a machinist. Parts should fit each other to work right. And yes that is a problem for different circumstances.
The reason I used thosebadapters on the Umarex APX NPG is that they, instead of having a standsrd dovetail/3/8″ rails system, they used a one-off rail, that only fits the horrible scope that comes with the gun. You know the one. It’s the same 4×15 that comes on air rifles like the Daisy 880, Crosman 760, etc, etc. My scope had been broken from the factory, but someone stuffed it back together to get it out the door. As soon as I tilted it downward, the objective lens fell out. The threaded area on the scope that holds the lens retainer was broken. Well, the NPG deserves a better scope anyway.
GF1,
I have not had the need to shim a scope so the idea was only a guess. I have had parts loosen up after some shooting. I watched the accuracy of a Ruger .22 pistol get worse while I was target shooting. The front site screw took two tries with blue lock tite before it stayed snug.
Gerald
Gerald
Yep alot of things can happen when scope mounting and shooting. What I have seen is the more guns that I get the more I see happen. Finding the right rings and scopes can get to be chore sometimes.
BB,
It would be a good idea to convince UTG to make inserts. I wonder why more manufacturers do not do so. Leupold makes them as well as Hawke.for the Match rings. Maybe you can convince Pyramyd AIR to stock those ring inserts. After all, they do stock the Hawke Match rings. Here is a link for the inserts.
https://us.hawkeoptics.com/mount-inserts-1.html
Ton
Good idea. I would like to see PA have them.
Instead of using a hard material like aluminum cans, credit card stock, etc., and taking a risk of denting the scope tube, I use one, two, or three layers of friction tape. It’s soft and compliant (therefore less likely to dent the scope tube) and sticky (less likely to slip). I’ve been using this stuff for years without any short or long term negatives. It works!
For those of you that may not be familiar with the stuff, friction tape is a black fabric tape that is impregnated with a sticky adhesive…in fact, it’s slightly sticky even on the side opposite the “adhesive” side.
Motorman
St. Louis, MO
Motorman,
Good idea. Is that from the electrical/electrician field? From my experience, anything that has glue/adhesive will also give/move a bit over time on a springer. Add multiple layers and you have multiple movement planes/points.
What works on a PCP may not work on a springer,.. sometimes. Like the old saying,… there is more than one to skin a cat. It is good to hear what people have (actually) tried. Always a very good thing. Thanks.
Hi Chris
I agree, glue or adhesive is just giong to eventually slip n’ slide. You might have to wait for a hot day but it will happen.
I use the old tried and true method of lapping the scope rings to prevent scope creep. You can buy the Wheeler Scope kit from PA for about $200 or do it on the cheap with a piece of 1″ tool steel rod and some valve grinding compound. Works really good for springers because all the high spots are taken down leaving greater contact area with subsequently way more friction to keep the scope in place.
Also because you grind off the machining bungs around the edges of the rings there’s
less chance of marring the scope tube.
You can machine points on 2 shorter pieces of rod that can be used to check ring alignment as well
To get rid of droop I tend to use the mounts with the built in correction rather than shim. No chance of slip n’ slide then!
With regular rings after lapping you can just about feel the high quality of the fit while tightening.
Cheers
Dave
Chris:
I regularly check scope mount and clamping screws, especially on my springers (which are about 80% of my air guns), so, no, any material creep hasn’t been a problem.
Motorman
St. Louis, MO
Remember that video I posted that was a song about air guns. About checking screws. Well here it is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v63d8PsklN0
GF1, that was great! Very cool song. I can hear B.B. singing that too 😀
Geo
Thanks. I thought it was pretty cool when I heard it. And maybe BB is a good singer. 🙂
Gunfun1:
Hilarious! I think I recall having seen this once before, but it was worth watching again. She’s actually got a pretty decent singing voice!
Motorman
St. Louis, MO
Motorman
Thanks. It fits the bill. And at least it’s a song about air guns. Don’t know if I recall any others. Hmm maybe there is. I’ll have to search and see.