by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- Diana 23 refinish project
- What next?
- An Airgunner’s library
- Blue Book
- Others?
- Are there more?
Diana 23 refinish project
Yesterday, reader Errol asked me this.
“Hi B.B.
What happened to the Diana 23 that you were going to fit a new barrel, blue & tune up some time ago. Just happened to remember Sir.”
Errol
He is referring to the Diana 23 I was refinishing for you. That came at the end of a performance test of the rifle where I even tested it out at 25 yards. It’s pretty accurate, if not very powerful.
Part 5 was published on July 2, 2015. For the next two weeks I worked on sanding down the metal even better than you see in Part 5. Then, on July 14, my wife Edith went into the hospital, and she passed away on July 26. I had other things on my mind for the next several months. When I looked at the project again I couldn’t decide whether I wanted to buff it as aggressively as I had once thought, or just blue it the way it was.
The whole refinish project was meant as a demonstration of the Blue Wonder cold blue process. I saw it demonstrated at the 2006 IWA show in Germany, and then I blued portions of airguns I owned. The 23 was just the next step in learning how to use Blue Wonder.
Over the next three years I looked at the project every few months (okay, maybe a LOT of months passed between looks), but couldn’t make up my mind what to do. I learned about a buffing wheel that I saw take rusty pitted steel and buff it to a near mirror shine. It was great, but it did remove a lot of metal and I was concerned about removing the model number and manufacturer’s name. So the project sat.
What next?
I once heard a pastor say, “A job worth doing is worth doing poorly.” What he meant was — do the job, even though it may not be perfect. At least it will be done. So that’s what I will do. I found all the parts and I’ll now see what needs to be done. Then I will do it. This report will transition into the historical section that didn’t exist back when I started. Actually this report was begun on September 24, 2013, so it’s going on five years in length. The next report will be the first segment in putting the gun back together and applying the blue.
Now, let’s talk about those books.
An Airgunner’s library
A library is most useful even in these days of instant internet gratification. That’s because some things just haven’t made it to the World Wide Web. I used to watch airgunners pass by a used Blue Book for sale at an airgun show, telling me they didn’t need to spend money to find out what things were worth. Then, a month later, they would ask someone on my forum all about the history of some arcane airgun and what they thought the price for one should be. Guys, the time to buy car insurance is before you have the accident.
Blue Book
The Blue Book of Airguns is large and full of useful information about a wide variety of airguns. People have said that it has errors. Yes, it does. Remember the saying about a job worth doing? The other general book about airgun values has no errors, whatsoever. That’s because there isn’t one! Oh, there have been small price guides that have been self-published over the years, but they are often harder to find than the guns they represent. Buy a Blue Book and learn to use your own good sense about prices.
Others?
As an avid reader, I try to buy most books about airguns and even about related subjects. I never know what nuggets of knowledge I might find. So the list I will publish is an abbreviated list of my own library. I will put the utility of each book in the brief description.
Smith’s Standard Encyclopedia of Gas, Air and Spring Guns of the World, by W.H.B. Smith, copyright 1957, published by Stackpole. This is a look at airguns in the early part of the 1950s. There are pre-war guns, some from just after the war and a few from the 19th century. Get this one because of the information and the tests of some of the old airguns. This book is only available used.
The American B.B Gun, by Arni T. Dunathan, copyright 1971, published by A.S. Barnes and Co. This is the best guide to American BB guns. It was reprinted in 1997 by R&R Books and that one is the one to buy, as it is much cheaper than an original.
The Airgun Book, by John Walter, various dates and editions, published by Stackpole books. These editions are heavy into UK, German and European airguns. They contain information seen nowhere else. No longer in print.
Air Guns by Eldon G. Wolffe, apparently never copyrighted but first published by the Milwaukee Public Museum in 1958. Reprinted with additional material in 1997 by Duckett’s Publishing Co. Information on airguns of the 17th through 19th centuries, plus a glimpse at guns of the 20th century. The reprint also contains Air Gun Batteries, also by Wolffe. That provides additional information on how the valves and actions operated. The reprint is less expensive than the original, but it is not in print.
The Practical Guide to Man-powered Weapons and Ammunition, by Richard Middleton, copyright ©2005, published by Skyhorse Publishing, New York. A look at catapult guns, including crossbows. This is an excellent treatise on how these guns perform, with some testing to document their performance. Still available.
The Crossbow, copyright 1903 by Sir Ralph Payne-Gallwey, published unknown. This book has been reprinted numerous times and it still the number one resource on crossbows, stonebows and related items. It’s so good that Robert Beeman sold it on his website for many years. Still available.
Are there more?
There are other airgun books, but the ones listed will get you started. There are books on building a PCP in your home shop and plans for building a Girardoni repeater! There are many general books and there are many on hunting. Some are self-published, but people are starting to get them published through a publisher, too. If you see one you like — buy it, because you may never see it again.
B.B.,
No mention of the books by the Cardews?
Siraniko
Siraniko,
I almost put in Trigger to Target but something held me back. I think that book may be a little advanced for the beginner.
B.B.
B.B.,
I can agree that it is heavy reading for a beginner.
Siraniko
The Classic ” Air-Guns & Air-Pistols by L Wesley ” a comprehensive book on airguns.
Mercury,
Yes, it’s a classic, but I think it’s not for the beginner. Notice that I also didn’t put in any Airgun Digests, for similar reasons.
B.B.
B.B.,
Another book you didn’t include is James E. House’s; American Air Rifles. Although it covers mostly multi-pump air rifles, the tittle: American Multi-Pump Air Rifles might have been nixed by his publisher. Other than a few boutique PCP builders and spring piston guns that was mostly what was out there made in the USA at the turn of the Millennium when it was published. The book does touch on a number of areas of general interest, small game hunting and the ballistics section is one of the more beginner friendly introductions.
But then any air gun library is better than none!
shootski
Shootski
Riggt.
There are more out there than what BB listed.
B.B.
Thank you Sir!! The Diana 23 was the first airgun I owned (I was around 10 years old then), so your blog on it has deep sentimental tones for me.
Errol
Errol,
The parts are laying on my kitchen table. I will take stock of them today.
B.B.
BB
Well that’s literally a description of putting it on the table.
Sometimes things just don’t come easy.
I know you heard that before.
And not saying this with no respect. It’s got to be remembered. Forever.
B.B.,
Yup on the Blue Book. It is the only air gun book I own, but wow. This is the book to get to get quickly exposed (if not overwhelmed) to air guns, old and new. The forward section to some brands D, (Diana), can be quite extensive running for a page or 2 or 3. Indexes, glossaries and cross references for brands that got sold under various names and retail outlets. 8 1/2″ x 11″ and 1 5/8″ thick. 736 pages. This is not a small book folks. I could on and on,… and on.
With the (many hundreds) of pictures, it is worth every penny for that alone. Given the caliber of readers here, I can say 99.99% assuredly that not a single person would ever regret getting one. If they do regret anything, it will be because they did not get one sooner.
Good Day to you and to all,… Chris
P.S.,.. With the way I tout the Blue Book, I figured that a sales commission check would be showing up any day now. Oh well, I figure that it is in the mail system somewhere. 😉
Chris,
Just don’t hold your breath waiting for it to be delivered.
In stock at Midway, 12th ed
It’s in stock at PA, too!
B.B.
Jerry,
I was referring to the sales commission check.
RR
I knew what you meant.
Gunfun1,
Get ready for some subliminal advertising: You need one, you need one, you need one, you need one, you need one, you need one, you need one. :^) Hah!
Folks don’t talk about subliminal messages anymore, I suppose for good reason. I recall no legitimate study showed that it worked even a little. On the other hand, repetitive messaging, even if peripheral and subtle, DOES make a difference, if the recipient is exposed to enough of it over a period of time.
Michael
B.B.
I am going to help a friend redo his Diana 35. I was hoping to use your repair on the 23 as a benchmark.
So where will future updates on the Diana 23 be posted?
Bummed,
Yogi
Yogi,
They will all be posted here.
B.B.
BB,
Nice update on the old one. If you can get it in good working order with a nice shine but showing its age that would be perfect. Personally I love to shoot the older ones with a history better than the fast and shiny.
Good reading list, much appreciated. I do not think it will be easy to get them, but I will keep an eye on the second hand lists.
Regards,
August.
August,
Many will be harder for you, living in Germany. You may have to order them online.
B.B.
I’ve built a pretty good airgun library over the years. I’d recommend adding these to the list: Beeman R1 Supermagnum Air Rifle is perhaps most valuable to us spring piston fans. And a collection of the Airgun Letter newsletters should be on the short list for valuable information.
Derrick,
I almost put that in but again I think it may be a little too specialized for the beginner.
B.B.
Maybe, but I’d counter that those are probably more relevant to today’s airgunner.
Derrick,
I myself would like a copy of the R1.
I am going to keep this quote for future reference. It is one I needed to see this morning. Thanks BB
“I once heard a pastor say, “A job worth doing is worth doing poorly.” What he meant was — do the job, even though it may not be perfect. At least it will be done. ~ Tom Gaylord Writing as B.B. Pelletier”
Captain Bravo,
Yeah, that one has lived with me for many decades. Edith heard it in a bible study class and told it to me. I knew the pastor who said it but I never actually heard him say it.
B.B.
BB,
I understand. That quote fits me pretty well. I tend to put things off because I either don’t have the resources (time, money, whatever), or I DO have the indecision to “do it right” and I never get it done. It is a little comforting to hear that I am not the only one in that boat sometimes. But it is something that I need to work on.
CB
B.B.,
The pastor’s quote that Edith shared with you reminds me of advice I gave my son and daughter when they started high school some decades back. I told them, “Not completing an assignment was uually rewarded by a ZERO but even a poorly done piece of work would usually get at least a 60% or better grade if handed in on time. That ZERO would be almost imposible to overcome in order to get a passing grade for the year, but the 60% would make it likely with continued effort.” Much of the time their problem was just getting started but once they got a start they usually got results far better than a 60% grade!
If you and your readership think it’s good approach then just as I time the pastor’s; please share the idea with your children and grandchildren! Heck! Share it widely I think the USA needs that approach right now.
shootski
🙂
And on we go.
Shootski
But the question is did you teach them how to get there?
That would help instead of telling them 60% of trying will help.
Your comments are left to wide open always.
Tell why.
…………….
Gunun 1
And on you go. I have chosen to not go on with these “exchanges.”
Please respect my choice.
shootski
Shootski
Then why did you respond?
I’m done.
But maybe not. I have been there before.
🙂
Yes, there’s a lot to this. A version I heard was said by Matt Biondi, an Olympic swimmer in the 80s who missed being the next Mark Spitz by hundredths of a second but who still pulled down multiple gold medals. He became a motivational speaker as many of these athletes do, and he was explaining the problem of what to do after achieving just about everything that could be achieved in his field. (This was the question that just about sent Michael Phelps around the bend before he pulled himself together.) Biondi’s answer was the importance of staying involved. Mentioning his interest in music in which he has no particular talent, he told of his time in his high school band: “I wasn’t very good at it, but at least I did it.” I thought that was profound from a guy of his stature.
Matt61
BB
You keep saying to advanced for a beginner.
Remember some people pick up on things quicker and advance quicker than others.
And last night when I read today’s blog I was thinking to myself. Why such a short list of books.
I hope Edith still reads the blog.
I know there’s been a time or two here and there she would of been jumping in on a conversation.
To set someone straight that is. I do miss that.
BB ,
Another great use for The Blue Book of Airguns is velocity. When You are testing/repairing a new to You rifle. You need to know what is expected of the powerplant. A great book !! The pricing information alone is invaluable to a buyer , get to know and understand the PPGS it will prevent You from being skinned on a deal. My rule of thumb with velocity readings is if the gun is making 85 to 90 % of rated velocity all is well as most are over-inflated by the manufacturers.
Mr. Gene
But here I go.
What happens if it don’t. Now what do I do with that gun.
Throw it away?
Probably not.
You know me. I always sound critical. But it’s the truth.
Sometimes guns just don’t do what they are suppose to.
Gunfun1 ,
You repair it or send to someone who can , at least You know what is going on . Some guns aren’t worth fixing due to labor exceeding the value of the gun . Quality air rifles from reputable manufacturers are almost always worth repairing. Most any German , English breakbarrel or PCP fits into this category as does the newer US Pcps.
Gene
Yep that’s what usually happens with quality guns that you mentioned.
But what way would a person not get that wrong gun?
What gun should you buy in the first place?
A quality gun?
Look at it like you don’t have exsperiance.
Whoops
Meant what if they do end up with that wrong gun?
Gunfun1,
The only answer I can come up with from being in that position is to start over, but be better armed with knowledge as to what I’m buying and what I’m going to use it for. I got a powerful PCP but since my regular range use is limited to 25 meters maximum it doesn’t make sense to keep it at that power level so I have to lower it to a sensible level. Since I’m limited to that range I also have eschewed using a scope most of the time. I’ve settled on using break barrels most of the time as that presents me the better challenge in shooting.
Siraniko
Siraniko
Most all the spring guns I have owned I tuned down. They were so much better to shoot that way.
Well with the exception of the HW30s it shoots just fine how it is.
Gene
I used the blue book to get the factory spec for fps for my em-ge rifle that I rebuilt with B.B. s help. Without it I would not have had a clue how fast the gun shot, turns out I pretty much nailed 560 fps just like it said in the book.
Carl
For those of you who may be interested in adding ” Beeman R1 Supermagnum Air Rifle” to your library, it is for sale at Amazon for $169.94 with free shipping.
RR
And tell me why I should.
GF1,
After you read it you can gift it to me for my library. 😉
RR
Only if you gift me the other part of your library.
😉
Well it looks like we got a Glock bb gun finally.
And why would I get one. Uust because.
Ok don’t get me wrong I’m happy.
But I wish someone would wake up and get some replica pellet guns happening.
That should be the next air gun movement if you know what I mean.
Price point pcp’s. Now how about replica action pellet pistols and so on.
B.B.,
For years I was one of those airgunners who kept putting it off, but I finally bought the 12th edition shortly after it came out. It is a reference tool I use probably several times a week on average. It is substantially more than a price guide. The detailed objective descriptions of airguns are what I use it for more than the price information.
I should have followed your frequent advice and bought one years ago.
Michael
Michael,
It’s never too late.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thinking further,… I think that one reason I want to spread the word about The Blue Book of Airguns to readers is that it opens one’s mind to a vast amount of exposure and information. But, more importantly, to get an (overall appreciation) of the hobby,.. and of what exists now, and what has come before.
That probably sums it up. Probably? 😉
Chris
Chris,
I absolutely agree. It is fun to just pick up and open to a random page. Very often I see brands and models of airguns I had never heard of before and which are fascinating. When I pick it up to look up something specific, on my way to that specific something I invariably stumble serendipitously on some airgun company that existed for just long enough to produce very cool looking airguns with exotic designs. Just wonderful.
If you are reading this and do not have a copy of the Blue Book of Airguns, get one! You only THINK you don’t need it. Trust me, you will use it and refer to it again and again. I don’t even keep it on a bookshelf anymore. It sits right next to my computer as I got tired of getting up and retrieving it again and again.
Let me put it this way, anyone who enjoys reading this blog will enjoy paging through the Blue Book of Airguns.
Michael
But why.
I’m sure you all will chime in and post about what you see.
That’s what is nice about the blog.
Wait and see what those blue book owners reply about. 🙂
GF1,
Are we feeling a bit “contrary” today? For real dude?,… get one. If not,… don’t.
What do you say?,… “Show Me”? Well,… get you one and (then) you can tell (us) about it.
Till then,……
Chris
Why do I really need one?
What do I need it for?
I see guns come up every once in a while I don’t know about.
But that don’t matter to me . Where would I go next?
GF1,
Well,… other than anything that has already been said,… I guess you do not need one.
Choices. That is what it is all about. Each to their own and live and let live.
Gunfun1,
Once again I demonstrated my clumsiness in posting. Look for my comment below Chris USA’s comment under yours.
Michael
Michael,
Don’t you just love it when that happens? 😉 More than a few myself. I still think that Ol’ B.B. ought to allow editing on previous post. I think that some blogs allow that? I do think that everyone here is pretty much on the up and up. We all make a mis-keystroke from time to time.
GF1,
On your below comment,… The Blue Book has more information than B.B. could post in 10,000+ blogs.
Chris
True and BB seems to comment about what he needs to at the time..
And ok I’m kind if slow on that.
I’m just learning that
GF1,
Just a pure guess,… but I think that he usually keeps a (pretty full) “to do” plate.
Time is valuable.
I admire that. I would not want that for myself. But,… I (do) admire that.
Chris,
I finally disagree with you (mark the calendar, I rarely do). Gunfun1, just trust us, B.B., Chris, and me. Any one of us could be wrong, but all three of us? I was put off by the price. But trust me, it is more than worth it. The thing is huge. It weighs 6.8 pounds! The Chicago phone directory should weigh so much. (They are about the same size.)
It is not just a price guide. For example, it has every single incarnation of the Diana 24, along with descriptions of each, such as (a “fer instance” — I didn’t look to verify this for the 24) powerplant type, FPS, overall length, barrel length, trigger type, buttstock shape, any special characteristics that make a particular model identifiable against others, years in production.
Daisy Red Ryders? All distinguishing characteristics of each variation and the years of production for each variant. Wood or plastic buttstock, wood or plastic forearm, cast iron, aluminum, or plastic cocking lever. Loading location and mechanism. Type and location of engraving on the buttstock and metal. Painted or blued.
And for most models there are photos, and they are all good photos.
Hey, maybe I can get a buck or two commission if GF1 buys one new, from Pyramyd AIR. Nah, probably not. ;^)
Hey here’s one of my own. How can you tell a country boy from a city boy? One says, “Naw,” and the other says, “Nah.” In the United States North or South, East or West, it holds.
Michael
Michael,
(To) Chris??? Maybe,… GF1??? By the way,… yup on what you said.
Chris, it was supposed to be to both of you, but I am too much of an “idjit” to have gotten it right. (Please see my post above yours.)
Yep, I know we agree. I was just trying to be clever in my verbiage.
GUNFUN1! Buy the blasted book! (Is “blasted” family-friendly in, say, the UK, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, etc? If not, my Yankee apologies.)
Michael
Michael
Sorry
Nope on the book.
BB is the knowledge here.
I’m sure he will give the info as needed.
Michael
We talk all the time.
But no I don’t need the blue book.
What I want to see is books about shooting.
And for shootski
No not for me. I don’t care what you think or say. Yes I do know . But some dont.
That’s where the help is needed.
Any info about how you got there is what they need to see.
Michael,
Very (well) said! 100% what you said. Mine is within arms reach of my computer too.
Michael,
🙂 ,…. Chris
On the subject of books, I’m all excited about ordering the autobiography of my hero, Lyudmila Pavlichenko, a Soviet sniper in WWII and the most successful female sniper of all time. I doubt that it mentions airgunning, but it’s about a kind of shooting at a high level. Part of her success, apparently, is that she loved guns and thought that they were a supreme example of human ingenuity.
Gerald, I believe that the 1911’s reputation was colored in the latter half of the 20th century by military guns that had been worn out from decades of service. Their inherent accuracy was not appreciated until they started getting used seriously in target competition. I would give them another try to complete your handgun experience. I’ve made it a point to buy the best in class guns in all categories, and for handguns, my 1911 is second to none. That’s one reason I’m looking forward to the upcoming comparison series between the 1911 and the CZ SP-01. Incidentally, B.B.’s teacher for shooting the 1911 was an army officer who could hold 2 inches at 25 yards with any 1911 from the armory, so maybe your pistols were not really that bad.
JimQwert123, yes, now that I’m texting, I’m coming to grips with autocorrect that is sometimes more of a hindrance. Anyway, Omega Glory was prescient in a number of ways about superficial understandings of culture. There is a documentary about how the Russians, like many modern cultures, have an inordinate fascination with the American West, especially the Native-Americans, who they see as a culture in tune with nature and unspoiled by civilization. Operating, apparently, from old movies, they have re-enactment gatherings where they dress in their impressions sometimes mixing in paraphernalia of the Seventh Cavalry complete with blowing bugles. The documentary showed how films of these gatherings were shown to Indians who were convulsed with laughter. But when they dried their eyes, they were quite diplomatic. While they appreciated the interest from the Russians, they suggested that the Russians might want to study the subject in more detail.
One way to put in the time while my arm recovers is to buy cool stuff. Last night, after much anticipation, I took delivery of two Wharncliffe blades, a machete and a self-defense knife. Special thanks to Derrick for alerting me to this amazing blade design that I knew nothing about. The cutting abilities are extraordinary, and the straight edge will also let me practice the sharpening techniques for a straight edge razor. Thanks, Derrick!
Matt61
Matt61
I do have a kind of 1911 in that my wife got one of the mini models in .380. Because she does not like it now I have kind of taken possesion of it. It will put all 6+1 through a paper plate at 15 yards and works very nice for pocket carry. I can’t say that I will not get a full size 1911 but I have no need for one. You never know when that deal you can’t pass up will come along.
Gerald
B.B.,
Have you ever written a blog about the Blue Book? I typed Blue Book into the “search” and turned up a few references, but nothing specific.
I would picture a?,.. uhhh?,… HECK!,.. you know it as good as anyone. I figure some good cut and paste with some good examples of what is in there. We can hype it all we want,… but without a solid look of what is (inside),… words just (do not) do it justice.
Chris
Chris,
Wow! I will think about it, but it sounds boring on first though.
B.B.
B.B.,
Boring?!!,…Really?!!,…. Far!!,… far!!,… from it. Do it right and it will sell a million. You already know what is (in) there and how valuable it is. I will leave it to experts like you to put it together.
Well chosen excerpts (cut and paste) would be all that is needed. Toss in some of your well chosen words in between and it would be a huge hit.
Just my 2 cents.
Chris
Chris,
Boring was just my first impression. I’m now thinking about it and haver come up with one good story to tell. Maybe there are more.
B.B.
BB
That’s cause you already been there.
That’s why I always questioned you.
You always say you wrote about it already. Or should I say you wrote about a subject
But if a person has a question. Don’t say you wrote about it . Aoeey but I hate when someone says they wrote about it already.
All great I’d you been her for a while. But if not your found what the ….
Man my phone
And yes the darn art phones.
Let’s go again.
I hate when someone says they wrote about it already.
All great and I been here for a while but why say you wrote about it already.
What does that newby think? He don’t want to answer a question?
GF1,
From my recollection’s,… if B.B. says that he HAS wrote about it,… he ALSO post the LINK to where he HAS wrote about it. Saves time and effort. I do not see an issue.
Chris
Right
But in the past he has made comments that he already wrote about it. Then that was it. Like he didn’t want to repeat it.
I just dropped it when that happened. After all it’s his blog.
B.B.,
I still intend to do a two-parter guest blog this summer vacation of my opening up and (perhaps, we’ll see) tuning my Walther air rifle, but I would/could also do a one-parter guest blog that is essentially a book review of the Blue Book. I have a Masters in literature and have taught it for 30 years, so it is in my wheelhouse, so to speak.
Yes, I could easily come up with a good 900 – 1100 words on the subject.
Michael
Michael,
Good idea. Saves B.B. the effort and you sound well qualified. 900-1100 words? Why the limit? I think that some good cut and paste shots and some good wordage in between could be a very dynamic blog.
Heck,.. with that,.. you may (actually) get a sales commission check! 😉
You got my vote,…. Chris
Michael,
Let’s do that!
B.B.
B.B.,
Sounds good. I’ll get right to it next week.
Michael
Michael,
If this is your first guest blog, please email me for a few instructions.
blogger@pyramydair.com
B.B.
B.B.,
Will do. Now that I think about it, next week is filled with doctor and dental appointments, so it might be early the week after, but I’ll get on it after that.
Michael
WHAT LUCK!!!!
I went for a walk this afternoon and happened to bring my camera. Not only did I get a picture of a feral soda can, but he was accompanied by the ever elusive ilk!
RR,
Someone has WAY too much time on their hands! 😉
Very nice. Me likes.
I take it that your aim was off for today? I do not see any pellet holes.
The elusive Ilk! Not endangered, but hard to find in the wild nonetheless. Many mistake it for a common barn owl, but it is smaller in stature and more, ahem, cylindrical in shape.
Good “birder” photo!
Michael
Michael,
This specimen is the Eastern Dwarf Ilk. I have seen some breeds of Ilk that were almost a foot tall and close to that in diameter.
I have found over the years that though an Ilk’s hide can be very tough, their entrails are usually edible and sometimes even tasty.
Chris,
I didn’t have a gun with me at the time.
I can see the feral soda can “hanging” from my 25 yard target frame. I am certain he will meet his fate today. As for the ilk, I captured him and used his “guts” as a pizza topping last night (olives).
RR,
Actually,… the big one looks scared to death! No doubt,.. you had it square in your sights. The “little” one reminds me of a Chihuahua which I have seen on video to run off a curious BEAR. Absolutely 0% fear. If I was a betting man,.. I would keep a keen eye out on that “little” one.
RR
I like the little guy.
I think I would catch him and keep him as a pet. I bet he would chase off some of the bigger ilk.
GF1,
I am afraid the little guy met his fate last night, pizza topping.
RR
I bet there will be more. 🙂
GF1,
You could be right, but there are quite a proliferation of those feral soda cans about. They are an invasive species and tend to crowd out ilk and the like.
RR
The beer species is the ilk you have to watch out for. They multiply rapidly.
GF1,
Fortunately, there are none of those around here. The beer we like does not come in cans.
RR
Well what should I say lucky for you or not.
That’s the I’ll I hunt the most.
RR, Chris, & GF1,
Thanks you guys! You’ve given me a good laugh this afternoon 😀
You fellows have a very good sense of humor…love it!
Geo,
Could you expound? Most discussion was rather straight forward. Or,… perhaps you find it all quite absurd? If so,… you are not alone. I am right there with you! 😉
I was referring to the picture and comment from RR, and others, regarding the feral soda can and the accompanied ever elusive ilk 🙂
RR
Ya know you could of had him stuffed and put on the mantle for display. Some people do put other things in them like bolts and washers and things ya know.
Your little guy I’m talking about.
Off topic, again.
Hellboy
Got around to shooting the Hellboy today, wish I didn’t. Three shots in a ragged hole, then a five inch spread, then a three inch spread. All at 10 yards. After that I had a hard time figuring out where it hit. I had two bb’s coming out at once, just about every mag full.
Tried some Bust Devils and most just flew away and missed the target entirely. This rifle has some problems.
I thought a rubber seal on the breach may be putting some spin on the bb’s because of a possible mag alignment problem, so I shimmed the inner barrel and mag to remove any play, no help. Next I removed the rubber seal and its aluminum housing and backed off an allen set screw so the barrel could slide back and sit directly on the mag face under spring tension…. Still no help. My conclusion, bad barrel, over bored? and bad mag, double shots.
The barrel is about 5/16″ in diameter any suggestions on a possible replacement barrel? Don’t think they paid too much attention to it during manufacture. I will probably try another mag. Also I could not get over 465 FPS with copper bb’s.
The good part? You can custom build this rifle to no end. Everything but the pistol grip and if you really had to, the mount block may be trimmed down to fit any AR grip but it may weaken it too much, not metal.
Bob,
I just watched the video on the PA site product page. Up to a 5″ was the norm there too. I was hoping to see a stripped down version/pic to see what the barrel looked like, (actual barrel), without downloading the PDF manual.
My first thought is to swag the barrel at the end. I am not sure, but something like a hand held pipe cutter might apply enough pressure to the OD to have enough of an impact so as to reduced the ID? A drill bit could be used as a gauge. The other idea would be to get some precision tubing from a place like Mc Master Carr. Are there any special holes in it or threads?
I guess it is,.. what it is. I admire you for trying to make it better. Just what I would do. Nice pic. I love the 6 position on my .25 M-rod. That one looks to be the UTG deluxe version. Mine is a FAB Defense with adjustable cheek riser.
Bob,
As an added thought, it looks like muzzle end comes apart. If possible, you could bore out the end cap to hold a length of precision tubing. If there is threads and such, maybe a add on air stripper or moderator of some sort could be used as the tubing holder. 1/2″-20 TPI seems to be the common thread. Getting at least that exit point tighter would seem to help, I would think.
Chris
Yes it’s a UTG stock. If I remember right I may have recommended that FAB stock to you. Adjustable cheek rest, right?
I removed the front sight assembly, two easy pins, and installed a free floating quad rail I already had then screwed on an Airsoft 14mm L/H outer barrel extension and M249 flash hider for now.
The bleed air tube is solid metal, no hole, and can stay with the sight. Slides right out of the receiver.
The inner barrel does have extra parts involved. It’s spring loaded with cutouts but I believe some straight stock barrel could easily be adapted. It’s almost useless for anything but a wall hanger as is.
I would really have to get creative to adapt a new barrel or just redesign it altogether. The outer barrel is just like a real AR set up, only hollow.
I could really use an already existing replacement barrel with a 5/16″ OD or smaller.
Bob
Good looking gun for sure. Just too bad on the accuracy. Ouch.
In my above photo of a feral soda can and ilk, can anyone identify the plant they are hiding under?
RR,
Poison Ivy would be my first guess. Out’a here for now. Back in the afternoon.
DINGDINGDINGDING!!! We have a winner! It is indeed poison ivy!
I am constantly trying to rid my property of this stuff. There is a tree along my driveway that has a vine going up it that is over four inches thick! When it gets cold again I am going to cut it. I do not want any sap splattering all over me. UGH!
RR,
I am one of the rare folks who are immune to Poison Ivy, Oak, Sumac, etc. When I see it in our backyard, I could just pull it with my bare hands. The tricky part is to then wash my hands very well and very carefully before I touch anything that someone else might touch. The resins are transferable through that sort of contact. Therefore, I try to remember to wear disposable gloves just the same.
Michael
Michael,
It did not used to bother me until one day I walked through a bunch of briars AND poison ivy while wearing shorts and low top sneakers. My ankles got all scratched up and the poison ivy worked me over good.
If I use a block and wash good I am OK, but I try not to take chances with it.
Michael
Poison ivy don’t bother me anymore after I got it real bad when I was a kid.
But Sumac and Oak still get me.
RR,
Here in Michigan I have seen use goats to rid their property of poison ivy. Matter of fact, I believe the city of Kalamazoo may fenced off an area over grown with poison ivy and then put goats inside the area to eat the poison ivy. Apparently they like it and has no ill effect on them. Funny huh?
Geo,
Buzzards can eat road kill for days. Heck,… even for weeks. Go figure that?
Fun fact,… for real,… on the way home one day I saw 3 buzzards in a triangle, wings spread. In front was a piece of road kill. In front of all that was a Hawk. The Hawk was not backing down and from a recent news feature, the buzzards will give up the kill to the Hawk. I saw it first hand first and then saw it on the news later. I found it quite interesting.
Chris,
That is interesting…but I am not surprised that the hawk won out over the vultures. A couple years ago I shot a woodchuck in the back yard with my .22 Diana 34 and it wasn’t ten minutes before a huge vulture came down and landed on one of my bluebird nesting boxes. He spread his wings out wide and just watched that woodchuck. He seemed reluctant to come down and have lunch so I carried the woodchuck out into the field so he could have his lunch.
Geo,
I’ve had goats before. No thank you.
RR
Box elder .
tt
TT,
Chris is the winner. It is indeed that most noxious of vines, poison ivy.
RR,
Did I “win” anything? 😉
Small plants can be hard to identify for sure if one is not up on them. If it even resembles poison ivy, I stay away from it. I will break out at the point of contact, but nothing extreme.
Fun fact,… on the news awhile back they said that the oil gets in your blood stream and you can break out in places that were never exposed to the oil. How true? But I saw it on the local news.
Chris,
Just a nervous itch that won’t go away.
R.R.,
Ditto Twotalon on Box Elder Maple!
At first I was going to say Virginia Creeper but count should be 5 not 3.
Never had olive stuffed ilk but love olives on their own and on or in most everything.
shootski
Shootski,
It is poison ivy. I have Virginia Creeper all over the place also. I wage a constant war against poison ivy. I kill it here, and it pops up over there next year.
RR
I use Ortho Ground Clear. It comes in a 2 gallon jug that is concentrate. So you mix it by the chart it gives.
But we had a vine of poison ivy climbing the brick on our house by our bedroom window. I cut it several years down by the ground. Even dug up the roots one year and it still came back. Then last year I sprayed the Ortho Ground Clear. And it didn’t come back this year. There’s is a dryed up stem left but not growing. The farmer told me to use it. He said he had good luck with it.
But don’t speak it around trees you want to keep. When mature trees. It will take them out. Or grass for that fact.
Let me try that again.
But don’t spray it around trees if you want to keep them. Even mature trees. It will take them out. Or grass for that fact.
GF1,
Most definitely be careful with the trees. Grass or such I could care less. On that big one I was thinking of drilling a hole in it and injecting some in it. I would like to save the tree, but either that vine goes or the tree is doomed anyway.
RR
That should work.
Definitely the safer way to go for the tree. You may need to drill a couple holes though. And drill the holes angled down so you can keep adding the Ortho with out it running out of the hole. And the oeryo acts pretty fast. You should see the leaves wilting in a few days or so.
Man I swear this phone again.
It’s too smart for it’s own good.
Ortho not oeryo. How and the heck did it come up with that.
GF1
Your not alone. I can’t write a sentence without going back to correct something on my laptop. Could be my worn out key board too. Literally takes twice as long to write something.
Bob
What I don’t like is I correct the spelling and hit post and it goes right back to what it was. I turn the spell check off but it still overrides it.
I will have to say it’s the only thing I find anoying about it.
It actually loads web pages quicker than my lap top.
GF1,
One of these days when I can no longer get a flip phone, I may break down and get one of those so called “smart” phones. Whenever I do, it will be a real challenge as I do not have much patience with many of the newer whiz bang doodads.
Is that the same stuff as Roundup?
Geo
I have used Roundup in the past and it don’t work as good as the Ground Clear. From what I seen anyway.
So not sure if it’s the same stuff.
GF1,
That is what I figure. I may have to get me some and give it a try soon.
RR
The smart phones are just like using your laptop or desktop top.
But you can hold it in your hands.
Once you try one you will have the internet at hand wherever you go.
GF1,
Yeah, just what I need. I work on a computer all day. I come home and I have a laptop and a Kindle. My wife has a notebook and a Kindle. It is actually pretty good to get away from it all once in a while.
RR
Yep on that point. If I looked at a computer all day I would be more crazy than I already am. 🙂
R.R.,
Ortho has good products for sure! They also have one called Poison Ivy and Tough Brush killer. For a tree covered in PI you would only spray the PI leaves while they are growing and try to shield the tree. You want to shield the tree with plastic sheeting, aluminum foil/flashing or cardboard from the over spray if possible. Some folks paint the stuffon the PI leaves wth a Small paint roller or brush. The Ortho instructions say to wet the leaves but nothing about the stem or roots of the PI.
Good luck with the PI erradication. The birds are what Carry it most of the time when the dump the seeds in their droppings.
shootski
Shootski,
I do not see me climbing this tree to “paint” the PI leaves. I think “drill and kill” would be best for this monster.
Well decided to go this way instead of waiting for the Hatsan Sortie-tact.
/product/sig-sauer-mcx-pellet-rifle-flat-dark-earth?m=4595
Going to use this.
/product/av-3000psi-13ci-tank-valve-1100psi-set?a=7882
With this.
/product/air-venturi-co2-bulk-fill-adapter-fits-umarex-ebos?a=3899
And this.
/product/asg-30mm-strike-red-dot-sight-weaver?a=5799
Haven’t ordered yet but going to soon. And it’s much cheaper than the Sortie and probably even more so than a Sortie-tact.
GF1,
You will probably like that. I once gave serious consideration to one, but they are just not my thing. They also lack the power I would want.
RR
Remember you don’t need alot of power for ilk. The right amount of power at a certain distance will send them flying.
That’s what I like is when the target location keeps changing.
GF1,
Ah, but I like shooting feral soda cans and ilk at one hundred yards or more. I grew up shooting long range with rifles that were zeroed at three hundred yards.
A friend just gave me a big box of paint balls and I just bought a bag of golf tees for them. I wonder how far away I can hit those?
RR
I like long range can shooting too but that’s for my .25 Condor SS to handle.
The MCX will be used like my WildFire in the 15-30 yard range. I like the idea that the MCX will have 30 shots ready to go where as the WildFire only has 12 shots. And I’m betting the MCX will get close to 200 shots on that regulated HPA bottle. So alot of shoot’n for a little fill’n is what I’m thinking.
And yep the paint balls should be a nice reactive target. How far out? That’s a good question but I’m sure it will be fun trying. 🙂
BB
I have an old friend who never jumped into computers or a cell phone and another who never reads anything and they always ask “Why do you have so many books and magazines and spend so much time on your computer?” Neither one can ever fix anything.
I try to explain they are used for reference material and as you might expect their reply is, “For what?”… “What do you mean ?”
So I can fix your car, tell you how to solve all the problems in your life, and find stuff for you through the internet ! ” I usually just change the subject at that point. Old dogs and new tricks.
At this point in time is there any information that you can’t find on line, or is the Blue book just more convenient ? I could see that for daily use in your trade.
I need to start dumping some books and manuals myself. Heck some are no longer issued being on line.
Bob M
Bob,
There is A LOT of stuff you cannot find online. And some that you find is guys just guessing. Blue Book is a solid reference.
Chris USA asked me to write a blog about the Blue Book and I have the beginnings of an interesting one.
B.B.
BB
That’s true.
But the blue book only tells about the types of guns available throughout time.
It don’t tell how to work on them. And there’s more things I can think of too.
It is a good reference if you are trying to find out about a old gun for sure. But with the internet you can find out about what’s available for sale at present time plus diagrams and so much more. And the old guns. It’s about knowing how to use your search engine.
And yes I’ll wait to say more till you get the report done. But will say it’s just one more reference among others that are found elsewhere now days.
B.B.,
What are your thoughts on the Daystate Red Wolf Special Edition HP? Is it worth a big 3? Would it hold value? Since I shoot left, it has a ambi lever (hard to find!), adj. butt and comb and finger grooved grip,.. all things I seek.
Looks aside, (which is pure droooool!), what do you think? And, any opinion on Daystate in general,… if you might be so kind.
Thanks, Chris
Chris,
Daystate is a fine brand. They invented the modern PCP rifle when they rebarreled a tranq gun with a rifled .22 barrel and called it the Huntsman in 1980.
I( think the rest of your comment is your answer.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thank you for the quick reply. Shooting left, it is hard to find an (all in one) “perfect” rifle. I like side lever, but will not do a right. AA and FX were another option, but no left lever PCP. D.S. Wolverine is another option, but no cheek riser.
Surprisingly, for such a high end brand,… info. is a bit hard to find good info. with easy searches. Also, (very) limited US distribution.
On the flip side of all this, my .25 M-rod in RAI stock will put 60% of shots into 2″ @ 100 yards. So? 😉
I am my own worst enemy of talking myself out of something. There IS plus sides to that. But, if I do spring for something, at least I know that I have done my homework = few, if ever any regrets.
Thanks again,… Chris
B.B.,
I am reminded of a quite lovely Lady that often said to me,… on more than one occasion,…. “Resistance is Futile!”. 😉 I find that to be more often true,.. than not. I will say though,… I am a pretty hard “sell”.
Thanks to your blog,… you have turned a complete “newbie” into a “highly discerning, air gun connoisseur”.
Will keep you (all) posted.
Chris
Chris,
LOL! Going straight to the top, eh? Which caliber are you considering? Do keep in mind that as of right now, in .30 your choice of ammo is very limited.
As for it holding value, if you take care of it. The bottom of the line Daystate is over a grand. I would not keep it in a $15 gun case.
What optics are you drooling about for it?
RR,
I was going .22 but since I like to shoot 100 yards, I am thinking .25 more and more. I am not sure how well a .22 would hold up at 100. Both appear to be in stock. The .22 was not, but a guy called and cancelled, so it is now too.
Glass? I am taking a serious look at Hawkes. Thinking FFP (first focal plane), maybe. I am thinking 24-32 max. mag. I have a 16 UTG now and while it did dim some, I found it to be good enough.
The UTG line is the trusted standby. For either, lighted is a must with dark woods.
I would REALLY like it if someone that has experience with high mag. scopes of both brands and could comment on the clarity between the 2 at higher settings. (BB perhaps?) If someone could say for (sure) they were the same, the UTG would be the choice.
Heavy into research at the moment on glass.
Chris,
Matt Dubber in South Africa is getting real good results with the new heavier JSBs in .22. Maybe you should try some of them before you decide on caliber.
As for glass, if the wallet allows I would take Hawke over UTG every time.
RR,
Got it, Thanks. You were the (only) one to reply on the scope question. I know GF likes them. By the way,… it is on the way (well, end of week or early next). .25. They look it over super good, check for leaks and shoot it and supply test data sheets. It does fill from the bottom too with a standard foster. Barrel removes super easy for cleaning. No wires in the barrel. That was an old design. Only 200 made and only 50 of those made it to the U.S.. Custom hard case.
I feel like a kid at Christmas! 😉
Chris,
LOL! I think you are really going to like that rifle. Like my HM1000X, the quality is absolute top shelf. Another piece of glass you might consider is this.
/product/mtc-viper-pro-5-30×50-scope-illuminated-scb2-reticle-1-4-moa-30mm-tube?a=8467
It is also top shelf and comes from the same company as your rifle. You said you wanted high magnification. 😉
RR,
Yea,… from what I am told, I was (very) lucky to even get one as I was a bit late to the party. I had a .22 and .25 to choose from. The .22 only came about Fri. as someone cancelled. The Rossie editions are more a red mix than black and also a different red that the std. Red Wolf.
While watching one of the few videos that exist, a fellow from Daystate was opening one up from brand new along with another guy. They even took it out of its stock. At any rate, this is the initial launch and more basic and economical models will come out later. Supposedly, this is the pinnacle of their entire line. I will try to find it again and maybe post it over the weekend.
Thanks for the scope tips. I am not sure I like that reticle. I am pretty picky on that. There was a Hawke first focal plane (FFP) that I liked and like the reticle too. FFP’s are relatively rare from what I gather.
Yes, clarity at higher mag. (20+) is what I am after. I will be taking my time on a choice. I need to get a good set of bags too. I have none. I would like to take my hands off and have it set still while still being easy to adjust front or rear. Maybe a hard cradle/rest is what I am after? Not sure. I do know that I will want it as dead steady as possible. 650 on a scope was a bit more than planned. There seems to be a lot under 5. Meopta?,….. nice,… but no. 😉
Chris,
I made my bags from old blue jeans and filled them with plastic pellets. They work great.
RR,
Plus, I know nothing of other brands. I did not know that MTC was made? by Daystate. I do think that 30x would be plenty. I can not even picture what that would look like. Like I said,… I will be taking my time, doing research and asking questions for awhile.
Chris,
It depends on what you want to do. The real high power is fine for long range in open country, but the lower powers work better in the woods. I myself have been considering a FFP.
Dig around. you’ll find something to suit you.
RR,
Most of my shooting is benched, so higher mag would do just fine, I just want it clear in a dark woods when shooting from the light. 30 yd. light/70 yd. dark split. The M-rod has a 4-16×56 UTG and does good, but it is heavy to carry. The Maximus has a 3-12×44 UTG and would be fine for woods walking.
The ultimate goal,… put down some super sweet 10 shot groups at 100, rested, benched.
One thing I noted on the FX line was the (newer) super high capacity mags.. They really forced the scope mounts up. I did not care for that. I did see that they do offer a lower count standard mag. for those wanting a lower mount profile.
Also,… for anyone looking for an air dryer,… “that place out West” says that supplies have dried up for the Diablo and they, (Diablo), are looking for new people to make them. I liked that one because you can dry and reuse the desiccant.
Chris,
I am glad I picked up my Diablo when I did.
RR,
Yea,…bummer on the Diablo. I would think that there is similar re-chargeable units out there. Maybe not. I do NOT want one that takes cartridges. Heck, there may even be some homemade versions on you-tube. I am not sure of the material, (alum. most likely) but I would not skimp on that. The hoses and fittings may be the only specialty parts that you would have to buy special. If I strike out, I may have to do some DYI research. Fine threads per inch (TPI) I think would be key on the tube.
Chris,
Joe Brancato has air filters.
http://www.airtanksforsale.com/
RR,
Thanks on the Joe B. tip. I WILL be looking at what he has to offer.Thanks
Chris,
Here is some info comparing the Joe B. vs the Diablo filters, 4 pages of posts but it should be read.
https://www.airgunnation.com/topic/alpha-vs-diablo-in-line-moisture-filters/
Mike
RR,
What is your reasoning for taking a Hawke scope over a UTG. I have one of each and they both seem to be very good.
Geo,
It was not a choice. It was a question. I have the 4-16×56 UTG but never looked through a 3-500’ish Hawke. So I was just tossing the question out there. I was surprised at the very few responses. I guess not too many have tried both.
By the way, on that “site” out West, on the scope page is a note that states that standard scopes can be used on PCP’s, but springers (must) take a scope made for air guns. I am not sure how many there are, but I think that there is only a few brands that make a quality scope that is spring air gun rated/designed.
A lot of the better stuff I am seeing, I am pretty sure was never intended for air guns.
Hey Chris,
My question was to RR as to why he would choose a Hawke over a UTG any day.
I have a Hawke Sport 3-9x50AO with an etched reticle and illuminated. That scope came on my Diana 34 and is a very nice scope but rather large. The Sport model is no longer available but I think it is the same as a Vantage or something. The cost was about $169 in 2013 when I got the Diana 34.
I wanted something a little more compact to use with the Gamo Urban so I chose the Leapers UTG 3-12x44swat with the etched reticle, as your suggestion, which was about $150. I like the side focus better but even though it is compact, it is still quite heavy. But it is a quality made rugged scope. I am happy with the UTG at a slightly less cost and the quality appears to be equal. The Hawke has held up to the springer recoil, though now I see that they are stating to use only on springers of 12 ft-lbs or less. So maybe they had some warranty issues.
Geo,
Oppps! Thanks for the insight though. With B.B. saying that UTG’s are better than many scopes costing many times more,… that leaves a fellow like me in a real quandary and questioning a lot. I would be (super) bummed to pay 3x and get the same or less than a UTG.
Geo,
Do not get me wrong. I have several UTG scopes and have been quite pleased with them. The compact models do not have as clear optics as I would like, but are very rugged and dependable. I have this particular one mounted on top of my HM1000X .357.
/product/utg-4-16×56-bubble-leveler-ao-rifle-scope-swat-ao-ez-tap-illuminated?a=7683
I also have this Hawke.
/product/hawke-sport-optics-hd-ir-series-2-7×32-ao-rifle-scope-illuminated-mil?a=3864
The optics on this scope is beautiful. I have also looked through a few of the Hawke Sidewinder scopes. WOW!
For the money UTG scopes are great. Quite frankly, for a sproinger I would not consider any other brand.
As for long range shooting with a PCP, I would step up to a Hawke, MTC or the like, most especially if you are using high magnification. I have had high mag lower end scopes before, but the light loss at full magnification rendered them almost useless.
Of course, this is all personal opinion and we know everyone has one. Mine is not likely any better than anyone else’s.
RR,
Thanks for the explanation. I have not used a scope that has more than 12X. I understand what you are saying regarding loss of light at higher magnifications. I have the this scope on my Urban and so far, once I got the right rings for eye relief, I am very pleased with it. I use it at 6X for 10-15 yards and full 12X out at 25+ yards. The optics seem very clear on my UTG at 12X. Mine is the compact version too. The Urban is short and compact and I wanted to keep with that theme. It’s only a few ounces lighter though.
/product/leapers-utg-3-12×44-ao-rifle-scope-ez-tap-ill-mil-dot-reticle-1-4-moa?a=4319
Geo,
I understand. The most powerful scope I have right now is only up to 16X. I have the compact version of that scope also.
/product/leapers-3-12×44-ao-swat-compact-accushot-rifle-scope-ez-tap?a=3429
Using any more power than that in the woods is self defeating.
Your compact UTG scope is exactly the same as mine except that mine has the etched glass reticle which is thinner and shows better with illumination.
RR,
To address your comment on “Going straight to the top”,….. it is not without reservation.
Since I shoot left, options are limited right out the gate on darn near anything.
The .25 M-rod in RAI stock allowed me to experience and (value):
– Butt pad tilt/fit
– Adjustable cheek riser
– Pistol grip with finger grooves
– Bolt that flips from right to left
Now, start to look around and see what fits that bill. Answer,.. not much.
So you see,.. in the end,… it is NOT my fault!!!! 😉
(How is that for some “twisted” self justification?,…)
Chris,
HEY! You don’t have to justify anything! We are in this to have fun and if this gives you pleasure — go for it! 🙂
B.B.
B.B.,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. If they have a .25 HP then it is done. The site says they do. I did watch a .22 on You Tube do 1 1/2″ at 150 yards, so I guess the .22 can kick butt too. Under 100 was stupid accurate. .22 is another option which is confirmed in stock.
On the Hawke vs UTG opinion? Do you have one? Both etched glass, both light, both 8-32×56. You have said on more than one occasion that UTG’s outperform scopes costing twice+ as much,.. so? The Hawke is 5 and the UTG 3.
**** An answer on (best clarity) is what I am after. Clarity at high magnification (24+) and the ability to see the target most clearly-ish in dark woods.
If you are not sure or can’t say, then so be it.
Chris
Chris
Now that’s a brand I haven’t tryed yet. Daystate that is. I have always heard good about them.
And then on RidgeRunners thought about .30 caliber pellet availability. That’s true. But at least there is a quality .30 caliber pellet made. The JSB’s. So even with the limited availability. At least there are some good choices available.
I have thought about .30 caliber. But so far for the type of shooting I do out at 150 yards the Condor SS in .25 caliber has filled the bill. Definitely cheaper than some of the higher end guns. And can be set up so many different ways. The availability to run different caliber barrels is one of the things I like about them.
But if you do pop out the money for that Daystate you know I’ll be waiting to see how well it does for you. That will for sure be interesting to hear about.
GF1,
See comments to BB. .25 will be the first choice, .22 is second. From what I have seen, only 200 were made and the US only got 50 of them. Also, they are going like hot cakes.
Chris
Alot of money though. And things do break and don’t work right no matter how much they cost. A scenario for ya. My $4000 muscle car would beat some $80,000 cars. And they both would break the same. Look at the 2 FX Monsoons I had. One was great. The other went back for warrenty work 3 times. As it goes 3 strikes and it was out. It got traded in for another gun.
But anyway something I think I failed to mention about my Condor SS. Right now I got it set at 15-1/4″ legnth of pull. And it can go about 3/4″ longer if needed. And it will go about 2″ shorter if needed. And I got the butt plate on the top screw. So the plate is dropped down about 4″ from the bottom of the bottle. And I got it off set to the right about a 1″ so it gives a good cheek weld. Just some info for you on the adjustability of the butt plate.
Chris
Oh and what regulator type does the Daystate have your talking about?
GF1,
It has an electronic one that works in conjunction with the valve and computer. I want to say that it has been used on the Pulsar with great success, but I am not sure now. I have been pouring over a lot of info. and things are getting a bit jumbled now. I have to step away from it from time to time. It is time tested tech.
From what I gather, it is nothing that is drastically new. Also, from what I gather, the Red Wolf is a culmination of all of the best things across their line and put into 1 rifle that also is special edition and in a great looking stock.
Plus, it works for us lefty shooters.
Chris
That would be the regulator I would be interested in hearing about.
GF1,
Out of room. On the reg., I do not think it would ever be of any use to anyone without the rest of the electronic package. I do think it is something that you just toss into any PCP, like we did with the HUMA’s in the Maximus’.
Do NOT think,,… not (do) think. It is specialized.
Chris
I was wondering where you were going with that comment.
But I’m not familiar with the system.
I may give it a search and see what I can find out about the regulator system.
Chris and Gunfun1,
Read this link below, it does not talk about electronic control as it is an older write-up, but it is very interesting;
https://www.airrifle.co.za/threads/38781-The-Daystate-electronic-air-rifles-de-mystified
Mike
Sorry, it does talk about electronic control, just not electronic control of the regulator.
My bad
GF1,
Did you read the link below that Mike in Atl. posted? I think that you would find it VERY interesting.
Worth reading every word. It will make you think outside the norm.
Chris
Yep just read it. Very interesting. And yep saved it too.
Hello Tom,
What a pleasure to see Man-Powered Weapons included on your shortlist… many thanks for the compliment. I feel very honoured.
Much as we all dislike Amazon.com, it does contain a useful gimmick called “Look inside!” and if you click on it you get a preview of the book concerned, in the case of Man-Powered Weapons with quite a lot of the text. This does give readers an idea of whether or not it meets their tastes. I couldn’t find it for The Blue Book, but if you can indicate where readers can see a taster, sales of the book do tend to jump.
Oh, and if anyone happens to read this, don’t buy The Practical Guide to Man-Powered Bullets because it’s the same book in a hardback edition, and much more expensive. The paperback edition – published by Skyhorse – has several corrections and the resolution of the drawings is far better. Unf. the royalties on the paperback are lower…
Greetings from a cold New Zealand –
Richard
Richard,
Welcome to the blog.
And thanks for sending us a word. I have admired your book for years. The work you did clears up so many things I wondered about but never tested. Like the probable velocity of the Hodges catapult gun from the 1800s. I had heard it was faster, be when you explained how catapults work I knew it had to conform to the others.
And thanks for the heads-up on the book. I would have bought it because the title is different.
B.B.
Mike in Atl.,
You posted at a spot where I could not reply. ((Thank you very much)) for that link. Saved to favorites and more info. that I have been able to find after much searching.
I am not sure the Red Wolf has a built in chrony, but from the sounds of it,.. I would guess so.
(I have yet to see someone fill one). A sales rep. said that barrel is removeable with 2 set screws atop the breech. Good for cleaning, assuming they don’t get covered up with a ring. The M-rod must be torn apart as the transfer port contacts the barrel in a protruding way.
Thank you again and I hope that you see this,…. Chris
Chris,
Yes, unless I get tied up with other things I see every post by following the comments feed.
Do not know how much of that is on the newer guns but that shows some excellent electronic control of the rifle.
I was searching for electronic control of the regulator but found nothing on that, perhaps it is possible to tune the reg thru the user interface and the computer sorts that to tune the hammer.
I should just look for a user manual.
Mike
Mike,
I do the feed as well. I looked for a manual download and found nothing. No doubt, it exist.
There is a “tuner” for around 400 from what I see. No plans on getting that. It comes pre-programmed and custom tuned from the factory as it is, so I am told. 3 power levels.
I am sure there is a bunch of info. out there, but it must be heavily UK based. There is a Daystate Owners Club,… which may yield (a lot) of info., once joined. Still,.. with the internet,… what can’t you find? 😉
Thanks again,… Chris
Chris,
You are welcome, I kinda like the electronic control but, it also could have unintended consequences. I have been in computer repair for too long and have seen things break in unexpected ways.
If I had the money for that gun I don’t think I would get it, I might lean more to the FX line but that is just me.
Chris, whatever you get I look forward to your reports in the future.
Mike
Mike,
I respect your opinion. I am “rolling the dice” for sure. I am sure, if all goes well,.. I will get “up to speed” on the latest of gadgetry.
As for this or that,… if you read my prior comments,… quality options for lefty shooters is (quite) limited. Yes,.. the FX Crown line was VERY attractive.
Chris
Chris,
I would not say you are rolling the dice, you seem to be checking things out fully, while I would not turn down the Daystate you are talking about if it were given to me, I am just saying it adds more things that could break.
But, as long as it does not It clearly adds and advantage to the shooter.
I started here in the spring of 2013, as I recall you came in shortly after and I have indeed read all of your prior comments, not commenting very often myself, just enjoying the Gunfun1 and Chris USA show each day. 🙂
Mike
Mike,
“Show”,… ehh? 😉 LOL times a MILLION!!!! I did not realize that we were such a big hit. Maybe we should take our act “on the road”,. as they say?
Thanks for your help, links and assistance,…. Chris
Chris,
I don’t know if it would fly on the road, you would need B.B. for the setup, I come here to learn more about airguns and B.B. has so much info and the reviews provide insight sometimes not related to the actual review.
Thing is you and Gunfun seem to, either on or off topic add a lot as you guys seem to go back and forth so much. (not a bad thing)
I am just one of the invisible airgunners /blog/2014/02/the-invisible-airgunner/ deciding to talk a little more today.
Mike
Mike,
Wow,… that one was a good one! I (vaguely) remember it,.. as I was around then,… but that is just my style. Dry,… with a good more bit of dry humor. Heavy on the sarcasm,… ah,… just my cup of tea! 😉
As for me and the ol’ grumpy and (contrary) ol’ GF1,… well,.. we shall see. I am pretty sure he is getting senile in his old age. Just sayin’. Hey,… it happens. Ever see “Grumpy Old Men”? 1 or 2? Ya,.. I suppose we are a bit like that! 😉 Instead of having a dual with fishing poles though,.. it will be a dual with the Maximus’.
Out’a here,…. Chris 😉
Chris
🙂
Mike
Thanks for the comment about me and Chris.
We do get going sometimes don’t we.
🙂
Gunfun1,
Indeed you do, and very entertaining I might add.
Mike
Mike
Thanks for the the link.
Very good info. I saved the link too.
Gunfun1,
No problem, that is one impressive unit for sure, while not what Chris is looking at exactly it shows what they have achieved, and the newer rifle should be even better.
Mike
Mike
Definitely cool technology though.
GF1,
I don’t know if you follow Hajimoto or not but he recently posted some interesting videos on a Gauntlet magazine tweak and another on making some reactionary targets that I know you would be interested in seeing. Here are the links if you would like to watch the videos:
Gauntlet Magazine Tweak
Sustainable Reactionary Targets
Geo
No I don’t follow video’s actually.
But when someone posts links I will watch them.
And your links dint post as links. So no telling what video I would watch if I searched it. It might not be the one your referring too.
If you can post the link to the actual video. That will help. I’m interested in seeing what your talking about.
And maybe post on today’s blog. The target video might fit in with the report today BB did about targets.
I’ll be watching for it.
Well that didn’t work…trying againl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bcb_CA1mYPY&feature=em-uploademail
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQv_mMru8D0&feature=em-uploademail
Geo
And ignore the part of my comment about the links. I was already typing.
Haven’t watched them yet.
But maybe post them on today’s blog too.
Geo
Done been there and done that. Matter of fact I chamdered the lead in on my WildFire/1077 clips. Took a drill bit that was bigger than the pellet holes and made chamfer.
Now the pellets always set flush. So they fiuse in through the clip easier.
Also done this in my FX Monsoon magazines. They are identical to Marauder magazines. As well as the Gauntlet mag I got with the Gauntlet. And remember my other 2 mags u use for the Gauntlet came from my Marauder’s I had.
But I have to say his pellets were the extreme of what I seen on skirt scraping. And on another note most pcp’s that make this much power override the scraping and flare the skirt from the air blast.
What I wanted to see is the pellet head scraping. Which he did not show in the video. That’s where I think accuracy problems come from with these types the f mags.
And getting ready to watch the target video now.
Geo
Watched the target video.
I already have several targets like that. I place them at different places in the yard. Plus I got some squirrel feild targets thrown in also. I got a mini field target course basically.
So yep cool targets but already got plenty of them.
Actually my hanging can targets have been pretty fun. I kind of up graded to weed trimmer line instead of the yarn. So now the cans get a spring bounce out of a hit. Plus another thing that gets them moving is the wind blowing them around or shooting after you hit one already and sets them in motion. And also I don’t have any cans touching the ground anymore.
Here is what I got now. It’s a short video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYpUyRkraUk
GF1,
Okay, I thought of you when I viewed the videos and I thought you might be interested in seeing them. Sounds like you are way ahead of the game though. I like your hanging cans targets. Maybe spray some fluorescent orange paint on them and then they could be easily seen at 100 yards. Have a good one.
Geo
I may just try that out at a hundred yards with the hanging targets painted orange.
That will be a good experiment when I try the peep setup on the Condor SS at 100 yards.
Hey Mike! Greetings to a fellow computer technician.
Geo (from MI)
Geo,
Been a while but when you first came here you were having trouble following the blog, as I recall I showed you how to use the comments feed. Other than the glitch of not always landing on the right comment when logged on you loved it and I have seen you passing that on to some of the others.
I thought I had told you then but perhaps not that I have been in IT since it was called Data Processing way back in the early 70’s.
Mike
Yes Mike, you are the one who informed me of the comments RRS feed. There is no way I could follow the comments without it. I did finally find the cause of landing on the wrong comment too. I posted the solution to that problem and now I always open to the correct comment. Thanks again for the great tip on using that feature.
I don’t recall you mentioning that you had been in IT. My wife worked in data processing back when keypunch cards were used to run programs. She did keypunching and verifying and ran the computer programs. That was before hard disks were invented. My son graduated from Northern Michigan University with a bachelors in IT. Guess what he’s doing…working a Meijer in the stockroom. Can’t find an IT job.
Geo,
Getting the diploma is hard, breaking into IT is very hard, getting a great IT job is almost impossible.
Unless you have experience, there is the catch 22. If he really wants to do it he is going to have to accept some fairly lame IT positions and work his way up.
But from the stockroom if he networks properly he may be able to get into Meijer IT little by little. They seem to have lots of IT jobs on offer, just a matter of getting some experience and training in the talents they need and since he already works there that may help.
I wish him good luck in moving to what he wants.
Mike
Mike,
Thanks for the well wishes for my son. His name is Mike also.
I think you have it stated the problem exactly like it is. He was recruited by Auto Owners Insurance. He worked for them for six months and hated the job. They wanted him to do programing, which was not the job he accepted. So he left them.
Mike,
Thank you for that link. (air filters/dryers) Saved. Info. is good. Thanks.
Chris,
No problem.
Mike
BB
I decided to get the Blue Book especially after finding out P/A has deleted a few pages of purchased items in my account.
Does it really have every airgun in there? I can’t imagine how someone can keep up on it.
For instance I have those three ASG custom race guns and an extended barrel version of the M92 Beretta and as far as I know only one place has them. Also that revolver rifle I sent a pic of a while back
Bob,
To jump in,… everything in there?,… or not?,…. you will NOT regret getting it. 😉
Bob,
No, the Blue Book doesn’t have every airgun. No book has ever been written that has that. But the Blue Book has more airguns than anything like it. Nothing else comes close.
It has been a labor of love of the late Dr. Ingvar Alm to keep up with it, along with Dr. Robert Beeman and John Allen of the Blue Book.
B.B.
B.B.
Bob,
Your comment has me VERY puzzled. How does PA deleting some pages of past purchases from your account have (anything) to do with the Blue Book?
Am I missing something that I should be up on?
Chris
I have a lot of airguns and some are discontinued, discounted or just parts that I was keeping track of what I paid for them, and when I ordered them. Take the Winchester MP4, EVANIX AR6 Carbine or Speed for example or limited edition and engraved revolvers.
I have not started a paper file because it was always available in my account and there is no way I can remember what I paid for them all. The Blue Book may help, with some at least.
Bob,
I save the PA receipts/packing list and include them with any sales,.. which are few. That is about as close to keeping track of things that I get. That, the original box, manual, etc., is supposed to add value.
I do not ever buy something with the intention of reselling it though. Like RR,… I would rather get it narrowed down to a few excellent shooters and be all done with it.
Chris
I only want one of everything and have to restrain myself because I can have it all. I have all the paperwork and boxes someplace, but sometimes there is more than one on a receipt and I’m not sure which box it’s in so I will need to copy some.
I’m on the verge of selling off a lot of the run of the mill airguns and keeping my favorite of each kind or caliber. Problem is they keep making better airguns to replace the best. 🙂
Bob M,
Sometimes it’s difficult to keep track of paperwork and receipts. What I have found to work well is to create a folder, or sub-folder, on my computer and scan relevant items into that folder for future reference. I have a folder named “Airgun Documents” with sub-folders for receipts, groups, targets, scope info, etc. That really helps me to keep everything right where I know it is located. And, if I need a copy for some reason I can just print one off. I print my targets out from there also…works very well.
Geo791
That’s the obvious way to go and I’ll probably go a step further and put it on a thumb drive or CD, Not too sure about the cloud.
Unfortunately for now I have no need to use a printer, scanner or copier. I have an all in one unit that is used so infrequently that I need a new ink cartridge every time, it dries up between use. Makes for expensive copies.
All I need now is a Round-Tuit .
Bob,
The ink has not dried up, what is happening is the same thing that can happen with a can of spray paint, the nozzle is clogged.
The ink can dry in the nozzle of a print cartridge that has not been used for a while, there is still good ink inside it just cannot get out. Somewhere in the software that you loaded when you got the printer is a printhead cleaning function, you need to run that and you may need to re-run it up to 7 times to get it going again. If by the 7th time you are getting nothing then buy new ink.
But here is the drill, at least once a week print a test page or copy a small color picture, wallet size should do, this will keep the nozzles from getting stopped up with dry ink so when you need to print you can.
By the way, here is your round tuit.
Mike
Also, I would add that when you power the printer off, make sure to allow the ink cartridges to park first. Sometimes this takes a few seconds. If the power is turned off too quickly the cartridge nozzles will be left exposed and will dry out.
Another option, if you won’t be using the printer for a long period of time, remove the ink cartridges and seal them in a ziploc bag with a dampened paper towel. I have also put some water in a measuring cup, about 1/2″ or so, heated in the microwave and placed the ink cartridges in the hot water for a while to dissolve the dried out ink in the nozzles.
Thank you, Tom. –
Yes, the Hodges rubber-powered weapons – which you described a couple of years ago – /blog/2016/01/catapult-guns-and-velocity/ – have always been something of a disappointment. Some time ago I had an excellent discussion with Melchior (who subscribes to this blog, and has a highly informed website here http://www.melchiormenzel.de ) and he reported that some rubbers gave higher velocities than those I tested. He had also done new work showing that the cross-section of rubber is important, and that the thinner the rubber, the quicker it recoils. Unfortunately we were agreed on the fact that stretched rubber heats up instantly, and loses that heat rapidly, and therefore is really only useful for the snatch-shooting of the catapult (US – slingshot, Australian – shanghai).
Your fine article about high-velocity crossbows – /blog/2018/03/sub-1-crossbow-part-1/ – does remind me that no-one, so far as I know, has adapted one of these to shoot round lead ball. I have shot an eighteenth century steel-bowed English bullet shooting crossbow, and provided the range is short the bullet doesn’t need to spin to be accurate. The steel bow gives a heavy kick, but five shots will go into an inch at 25 yards. The great drawn length of the modern compound crossbow design gives a long period of acceleration and I can see no reason why the English half-ounce lead ball shouldn’t achieve a velocity of 430 feet per second, which is double that of the eighteenth century weapon, and indeed begins to approach the energy of a handgun bullet.
Richard
B.B.,
Just an idea,… but what about an article on someone considering something top-end? Yes, there are those things that resemble something akin to a robot with a million adjustable joints. I am talking something more traditional in a sense. Where does one go? What should be considered?
No clue on how you would put that together,.. or,.. if you would even want to. But,… the fact remains that if someone follows this blog long enough, they will come to appreciate (want) a quality product. A new quality product.
Just tossin’ it out there,…. as usual,… Chris 😉
Chris,
I am waiting to test a RAW rifle for you. I have already shot it, as have several hundred other people at the NRA Show, (and again at thew Texas show in 2 weeks). I might even try to buy it — it is that good!
B.B.
B.B.,
RR has one that is good,… so he says. So yes,… I can believe it. A little caviar now and again never hurt anyone,… ehh? 😉 Never had it before,.. but I suspect that I am about to get a taste. I do sushi just fine,… so I am thinking,… no problem.
Chris
I have seen a couple y-t videos about the RAW, from before they were part of Airforce. A lot of care goes into making them. It shows in that they are used by some top competitors at extreem bench rest.
Gerald