by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
- Only new for me!
- The RidgeRunner story
- Kevin’s story
- Whacky Wayne
- Hey, BB — where are the airguns?
- A lot of them can be fixed
- Vintage pneumatics
- Shaving is the best test
- Blade shape and thickness
- Don’t forget CO2
- Summary
Reader Michael gave me the idea for this report when he made a comment to yesterday’s blog, referring to my discussion of the bent versus unscragged mainspring.
“I suppose, too, that if a particular air gun is firing or cocking abnormally, a bent mainspring is one of the usual suspects.”
That comment is so true that it started my brain firing on both cylinders! The bottom line is — what’s it like to own a vintage airgun?
Only new for me!
Some of you steadfastly refuse to look at vintage airguns, for fear you will encounter some problem that can’t be fixed. Does that ever happen? You bet it does! Have a look at my greatest failure — the pogostick repeater. Read that report and look at the pictures. After I wrote that I gave the rifle to former reader Vince, who attempted to put it back to being a vintage Diana. He failed, too, and today it’s just a pile of parts somewhere.
My point is — that was something so crazy wrong that I couldn’t look away. I’m sure you know what I mean.
The RidgeRunner story
It was in 2013, at what was once the Roanoke airgun show, but had finally collapsed into the Moose Lodge before going extinct. There was a BSA first model for sale for a ridiculously low price on Mike Driskill’s table. RidgeRunner was at the show and happened to see it and he got all twitterpated. You’ll have to research that term that comes from the Disney video, Bambi. He started circling the show and talking to himself. I knew what was happening to him, but he didn’t.
Long story short, he bought that rifle, knowing it needed lots of TLC. He gave it all the care it required, and I think the rifle returned the favor. Today it lives at RidgeRunner’s Home for Wayward Airguns, where it holds the proud title of founder and first tenant.
Kevin’s story
By the way, reader Kevin said something to Ridgerunner in the comments to that report. He told him he had some ‘splainin’ to do about that purchase. Speaking of that, Kevin has his own unique story about vintage airguns.
As I recall (that’s my way of sloughing off any lapses in memory) Kevin came to this blog as a veteran firearm shooter, with some guiding in his past. I think it was some random comment I made about Roy Weatherby being the “High Priest of High Velocity” that lured him in. Anyhow, he saw right away that airguns were an entire field of the shooting sports he knew nothing about. Flash forward several years and he’s pulling up in front of my house, on his way home from buying a large collection of vintage airguns. The springs of his car were sagging from the combined weight of the guns he purchased. If RidgeRunner got his feet wet, Kevin plunged in head-first without knowing how to swim.
Whacky Wayne
Then there was Whacky Wayne who made (and still makes, I think) raised bed gardening boxes, three of which are in my back yard. When he was an early reader Wayne asked me some questions about field target, prompting a 6-part series titled, Starting your own field target club.
A long time after that he pulls up in front of my house on a road trip to field target matches around the nation. He came to see if there was anything I was willing to trade. That’s like asking Ricky Ricardo to speak Spanish! We did a monumental trade of multiple guns in which both of us made out like bandits. I think I got two $5,000 cats for my $10,000 dog!
Hey, BB — where are the airguns?
I guess I have been talking about all the fun and good times instead of focusing on the airguns. Well, that is the point today. Vintage airguns can be so engrossing that they pull you into another dimension you didn’t know existed. Like the Beeman P1 I have been testing for you. It’s not a vintage airgun because Weihrauch is still making them, but the one I have been testing and now tuning is about 30 years old. And that would be a second point to today’s report.
A lot of them can be fixed
Depending of what you are talking about, a lot of vintage airguns can be repaired and brought back to life. Old spring guns, for example, are often easy to rejuvenate. I have written about so many of those on this blog that you have either read them already or you just haven’t found them yet. Here are a few:
Diana 27
BSA Meteor Mark I
Diana 25 smoothbore pellet gun
Vintage pneumatics
Of course springers are not the only kind of vintage airguns. There are a ton of pneumatics — especially here in the U.S. And they are often just as easy to put back into operating condition, though the methods you employ and the parts you need are completely different.
With pneumatics you can start easy, like restoring a Sheridan Blue Streak that was made until very recently, and advance to something really old, like a Crosman 101 when you are ready. The parts may not be available from the manufacturer any longer, but Rick Willnecker has reproduced many of them and now supplies them to repair stations around the world. You can find Rick at his website — Precision Pellet.
And here are a couple reports I have done about vintage pneumatics:
Sheridan Blue Streak
Crosman 101
Crosman 1400
Don’t forget CO2
This is where vintage guns can get dicey. Some are rugged and reliable, like the old bulk-fill Crosman guns. The 111, 112, 115 and 116 pistols of the early 1950s are just as reliable and rebuildable as any of the pneumatics. And the CG (compressed gas) guns from the 1940s are also very rebuildable. Some of those have off calibers like .21, which Crosman used to prevent other pellets being used in their guns, but that’s about the only big problem.
There is another class of gas gun, though that is and always will be a problem. The very early guns that used small CO2 cartridges. I’m thinking of the Schimel, but there are dozens of similar guns. Their parts become brittle and break and there are no replacements. Looking for Schimel parts is like trying to locate a beater Stradivarius that can be bought for under a hundred dollars.
On the other hand, the Crosman 600 is a CO2 pistol that is made for fun! It is now completely repairable, as I understand it, and well worth owning.
Here are some reports on vintage gas guns:
Smith & Wesson 78 & 79G
Crosman 116
Crosman 114
Crosman 160
Summary
In short, you can have a lot of fun with vintage airguns. They have surprising performance and they are reasonably easy to repair and rebuild. When people ask me about great airguns and then give me their budget that’s well below the current market levels, I often tell them the models they want are called “used.” Get used to it!
BB—-Should be twitterPATED.———Ed
Ed,
Really? I have been saying it wrong all my life?
Thank you! I really didn’t know.
B.B.
It’s been a crazy week for me. Haven’t had the time to post. Only been able to skim through the blogs and comments this week. We was off last week Thursday and Friday for the holiday. I took off Wednesday last week too because we had relatives coming up from Texas.
As most know I work as tech/maintenance/ machinist/and who knows what all at a production machine shop. Yep mass production of parts. But here’s what’s crazy all the time. Shop was shut down for 4 days counting the weekend. It’s taken us 4 days to get things back running smooth again. Basically back where we started when we left.
The machines don’t like to stop. Seems like everytime they are down for awhile; you play heck trying to get them back up to speed. Like my dad use to say. “Those cars were meant to be driven, park’em and they’ll fall apart.”
Thinking about this more. I would like to know more history about how these air gun company’s came about. And how the guns were made back then. I wonder if that is another one of those lost arts of producing air guns.
What I thought was interesting is when BB did blogs about pellet making factory’s. That would be something that I would like to know/see is how the pellets where produced and what the pellets were made with back in the day.
I bet that would be one for the old saying. Every picture tells a story don’t it.
And since I finally got home tonight from work at a reasonable time compared to all week long. I got a bit of time before tomorrow. So since a few different topics where rolled into today’s blog I got to say something about the feild target stuff.
I absalutly love feild target. I wanted to make something happen at my old house I lived at but it wasn’t really the best location or the best amount of room. Here where I’m at now I can definitely make something happen. Matter of fact I think we might do something simple. Thinking it’s going to be a simple spinner hit or miss course out to 50 yards. And yep mentioned it a while back to be a open sight shoot. And spring guns. For sure going to have a open sight shoot. But with any air gun someone wants to use up to .25 caliber. Then thinking a 10 or lower magnification scope class for any air gun again upto .25 caliber. The class that uses magnification will have smaller diameter spinners though verses the open sight class. And this is just kind of a base line idea. Will probably do shooting sticks and such or unsupported if someone wishes. And probably going to do one open site class once a month then one scoped class once a month on the opposite 2 weeks. But pretty positive about making it happen.
Oh and I know that feeling of walking around talking to yourself. That use to happen to me at the old muscle car parts swap meets. There was always something I wanted and I would go back and forth with myself of why I should get it or why I shouldn’t.
And RidgeRunner. I’m betting more than you or me have had that little walk and talk with ourselves. All I know is I’m glad one part of me likes to have fun. 🙂
GF1,
How do you think BB recognized what was going on? 😉
RR
Right. 🙂
GF1,
Best wishes on getting that up and running. There ought to be a buck to be made in there somewhere. That would be a nice retirement venture. Consider liability and maybe some idiots showing up.
Chris
At most racing events I entered you sign a waiver of liability for the establishment having the event.
Would probably have to write something up I’m thinking.
And yes on the retirement part. Heck I could even fill some buddy bottles and guns up for a small fee of course. 🙂
Chris
Oh and forgot to mention the important part.
Would have to fire up the old BBQ grill for the event and have brats and hot dogs for the kids.
And notice I say kids. Hopefully if it was to happen maybe the adults that come would bring their kids and get them involved more in shooting.
GF
As long as the kids are old enough, well behaved enough, and will shut up and stay behind the firing line .
I have some neighbors who are a good example of why I had to say that .
Nobody has been injured or killed YET.
tt
TT
Yep there could be issues there. And same with some adults too you know what I mean. Sometimes the adults can be worse than kids.
And what made me refer to bringing the kids is back when I was a young’n. We lived on a farm and I started shooting at a very young age. So was around guns early on.
But also there was a local shooting range my dad would take me too along with my younger brother when he was as old enough. And old enough back then was around 6 years old it seemed to be cause I know some of my friends from school would be there also with their dads. But us kids sat and watched till it was our turn to go shoot. It wasn’t feild target back then. Just shooting at paper. But I do remember they would through out some cans toward the end of the day and us kids got to stand at the firing line and start blasting away. That was my favorite part of the whole day. And that was with semi-auto .22 rimfire guns. But that was when I was older at around 10 years old. We did single shot .22 rimfire guns and pellet guns when we was younger.
But yep for sure paying attention and do as told is part of the ball game. Not only at a shooting event but even when I drag raced the muscle cars and motocross raced. And even the RC plane racing. You could get hurt real quick if you don’t stay in designated areas.
Gunfun1,
25mm and 40mm spinners to start with. No 25mm spinners beyond 20 meters probably for the open sight challengers. 1 point per hit. Any position can be taken except for some designated targets where the shooter must take a particular position (Standing or kneeling). 2 minutes per target. Just a question of how many lanes you want.
Siraniko
Siraniko
You mentioned awhile back when we was talking about this about starting a event.
Did you ever do it?
Gunfun1,
My group will probably try the format next year. Still looking for an area where we can hold it. Shooting spaces are not very easy to come by. Probably some province outside of the Metro area.
Siraniko
Siraniko
That’s part of my thought too. If I start this I’ll probably have to keep it going. Kind of for the same reason.
There are places to shoot in my area. But nothing to do with feild target courses. And most places around me you have to drive for a while to get to the shooting places.
So if I’m in. I think I will need to be serious about committing to it.
GF1,
Oh yea,.. if you are interested in company history’s and some back ground info.,… consider the Blue Book. That would be an excellent start with tons of info. and resource links.
As for anyone considering shows and buying fixer upper’s, the Blue Book should be required reading,.. (read: drooling) 😉
Chris
Ok I didn’t know there was things in there about company history.
GF1,
It does, but varies from maker to maker. Really, it will be some of the best money that you have EVER spent.
Chris
Probably should of done had the book.
GF1,
The thought of setting up a field target range as a business is interesting; wondering if there are field target clubs in your area that might be interested in renting a course for a competition in a different setting. Like golfers visiting different courses.
My ten acres has a variety of terrain from fields to hardwood ridges and swamp. Over the years I have cut several trails and made a few bridges to get around. I have two dozen 1″ spinner targets scattered along the trails to keep me entertained when I go for a walk-about with one of the rifles.
Frequently friends will come over and we will go “hunting spinners”. The “rules” are simple – you have 3 seconds to shoot from where you first see the target and only ONE free-hand shot per target is permitted. Oh, and keeping score is not allowed 🙂 One of my friends calls this “bunny training”.
Hank
Hank
I like your idea too. And that’s just it. There is no feild target events of any kind in my area.
We have indoor and outdoor shooting ranges. But all just target shooting. There is one range that does indoor air pistol silhouette shooting but nothing like what we described or what we know as feild target shooting.
So I think if the word would get out people would maybe start showing up. I do live in a good area for it too. Nobody to complain about it. And it is a unincorporated area. Which means we don’t have to abide by certian laws that you do when your back in town. In otherwards shooting is ok on your property. And that includes firearms.
So if I kept it just air gun only I think it could work.
BB,
My 1906 Lincoln Jeffries Model BSA is indeed the Founder and First Tenant of RidgeRunner’s Home For Wayward Airguns and holds the place of honor over the fireplace in the great room.
That air rifle introduced me to a world of quality and craftsmanship that is hard to find today. You do need to be careful with your choices though. I once turned down a deal on an early Diana similar to the Militia because the quality was just not there.
B.B.
Now you have done it! A friend just talked me into renovating his Diana 35. He received it when he left the Italian Military(don’t laugh)as a young man. Now he is middle aged. Are they droopers? What is the bore diameter? What kind of modern spring will fit? He says he wants “full power”, yet in one of your earlier blogs you said that it was the looser in the FPS wars started by the FWB 124 and HW 80.
Where should I start????
-Yogi
Yogi,
Wow! You don’t ask a lot, do you? Define the universe. Now, give three examples.
Yes the HW35 is hamstrung by a short piston stroke. You can get it up to 12 foot pounds or close, but that’s about it. I’m assuming .177 caliber. Your goal is an 8-grain pellet going as close to 80-0 f.p.s. as it can while remaining dead calm. The smoothness is more important than the speed.
Your best bet is to go for smoothness, and with Tune in a Tube, most of the work is already done.
The piston seal could be leather, though synthetic is more likely. The breech seal will tell you.
As for the bore diameter and springs that will fit, you are asking the wrong questions. The questions to ask are who sells a piston seal (PA) and a mainspring (also PA, I’m guessing). Those parts won’t be hard to find.
Are they droopers? They can be. It may be obvious.
Keep us posted,
B.B.
B.B.,
I think Yogi was asking about the Diana 35 rather than the HW35.
As far as diving into vintage airguns, yes, I certainly did and have no regrets. You left out the part that drove me to this. I tried many of the LATEST airguns and found they’re not the GREATEST.
kevin
Kevin,
Oh! The Diana 35 is a different story. Very short stroke and no hope for power. Also that ball bearing trigger can be hard to assemble. Just pack it with grease and the parts will stay together long enough to go inside the gun.
B.B.
B.B.,
Nice article. You worked in some good words, phrases and a bit of humor. 😉
I will say that the whole “walking in circles and talking to one’s self” also applies to new air gun buying. I think that new reader Idaho might be doing a bit of that right now as he is just coming into the hobby and looking to score his first purchase/set up.
Chris
Its even happening in my sleep 🙂
Idaho
🙂
A few weeks ago I purchased a HW 35 from a firearm seller for $30. It was completely brown with rust but was complete. With several hours of work it turned into a nice shooter. One of my favorites.
Bill,
Wow! That was a steal! But of course you know that, don’t you? 😉
B.B.
BB, I was excited to read “The rest of the story” on my former 1906-vintage BSA! So happy it has returned to health at RidgeRunner’s house. Awesome old rifle but its needs were a bit beyond my meager mechanical skills, so that deal was a classic win-win for sure.
Vintage guns are of course my “thing.” At present I own exactly 2 airguns I bought new: a P1 pistol I’ve had for 30+ years, and the mighty P17 I picked up not long ago! The other 5 dozen + residents of the gun room were all pre-owned. In general, old springers are so simple, so well-made, and so easy to work on, you need have no fear of buying one that hasn’t suffered obvious abuse.
My particular disease seems to be getting interesting in a particular model, and the changes it has undergone over time. Fun, yes–but one day you wake up and realize you own double-digit quantities of HW 55’s, almost as many Diana 27’s, half a dozen Webley Mk 3’s, etc. Occasionally I walk into the hobby room and the first thought that pops into my head is, “YEP some crazy dude lives here…”.
Mike,
Yes, well, anytime you want to get rid of an old HW50 (maybe one from before the Rekord trigger?) you know where to call — “B.B.’s home for recuperating airguns that are awaiting the estate sale.” Then they might not call you crazy — just eccentric.
B.B.
B.B.
Off topic for a sec. I have an interest in a R7. Do you know if they are still made in Germany by Weihrauch or are they now made in China since Shanghai took over? I asked Pyramyd AIR tech support but they are not sure. Also, a while back you told me to remind you of a report on the HW30S. Consider this as a friendly reminder.
I like the R7 and the HW30S and cannot decide. Any input you can share would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Ken
Ken,
The R7 is still made in Germany by Weihrauch. It is basically the HW 30 in a different stock. It has changed some over the years, but it’s still German made.
B.B.
Thanks B.B.
BB
It’s like being politically correct. I’m no longer an out of control airgun collector. No, I have evolved into a more prestigious position. Manager of Acquisitions for a Private Airgun Museum. Anxiety quickly turns into pride and everything is justified. Considering a section devoted to Tacti-cool and one off conversions. 🙂
Bob M.
Bob,
I like that! I may steal it and call it my own someday. That’s a benefit of being so old — people expect some eccentricity.
B.B,.
BB
Your more than welcome to.
I’ll try to remember that benefit when I get old !!
Don’t overlook other applicable positions like ‘Curator ‘.
Bob M
Mr. Gaylord:
Interesting and informative blog post today. But for some of us, it’s not so much the owning of vintage airguns that’s the problem. It’s the knowing which airguns to purchase, assessing their condition and having the knowledge and skill to return them to prime shooting condition.
On top of the many deficiencies in these critical skills, then there’s the always looming questions “WHY?” or “WHAT FOR?” from the significant other as you walk around the different shows. Where you and I might see vintage airguns, she she might see old junk and more clutter coming into the house. 🙂 🙂
Respectfully,
Wm. Schooley
Rifle Instructor & Coach
Crew .357
Chelsea, MI
William,
Ah, yes. The dreaded, “What for?” Insurmountable by anything known to husband-dom.
B.B.
B.B.,
Well put!
B.B.,
Thank you for this wonderful report. It could just as appropriately been entitled “The Joy of Airgunning,” but the problem with that title is it’s a redundancy. You wrote above that you needed to refocus on airguns and stop all the talking about “all the fun and good times.” Hogwash! ;^) You know as well as anyone airgunning IS fun and good times! I love reading those stories of yours.
I recently made my most recent vintage air gun acquisition: a 1940, first variant Daisy Red Ryder. It’s well-worn, but has all its original parts and finish and had just been resealed by a well-known/respected Daisy guy. I’ll shoot it periodically, but mostly it will hang on my study wall.
Like RidgeRunner, I started vintage airgun collecting slowly and unwittingly, but eventually I started accelerating, too. For me the impetus was stumbling on a very fine San Rafael era Webley Hurricane with its original Webley scope mount and scope in a pawn shop. I went in their looking for vintage guitars and vintage guitar amplifiers, but I instead picked up a new hobby. I still have that Webley, and I can’t imagine ever parting with it. It is one of only several air guns I have sentimental attachment to. If my memory serves, it cost me just $25 that day. On the other hand, by luring me into collecting vintage air guns it has cost me a lot more money than that over time.
Thanks again for this report. I very much enjoyed reading it.
Michael
B.B.,
I almost for got to mention — Schimel parts are easy to come by. I see Schimel “parts guns” for sale all the time! ;^)
Michael
I often identify with your articles, B.B., but this one really strikes a particular chord. From my first “big boy” airgun (Marksman Model 70 which I bought about 30 years ago) thru literally dozens of subsequent acquisitions I, too, have done that “walk around and talk to myself” routine any number of times…sometimes at a gun show, maybe pawn shops, local gun shops, or even my living room (internet purchases). Spring piston guns, multi-pump pneumatics, CO2’s, even one “dark side” gun, a Gen 2 Marauder. Most of the time I bought ’em because I just liked it for some reason. In other cases I lay the blame for the purchase solidly at your feet…FWB 124, Diana 27, Benjamin 392, P1, P17, and probably more if I looked around some. You certainly do your part to maintain demand for those old guns that I drool over in The Blue Book of Air Guns. Please accept my heart-felt thank you!!!
Motorman
St. Louis
I often identify with your articles, B.B., but this one really strikes a particular chord. From my first “big boy” airgun (Marksman Model 70 which I bought about 30 years ago) thru literally dozens of subsequent acquisitions I, too, have done that “walk around and talk to myself” routine any number of times…sometimes at a gun show, maybe pawn shops, local gun shops, or even my living room (internet purchases). Spring piston guns, multi-pump pneumatics, CO2’s, even one “dark side” gun, a Gen 2 Marauder. Most of the time I bought ’em because I just liked it for some reason. In other cases I lay the blame for the purchase solidly at your feet…FWB 124, Diana 27, Benjamin 392, P1, P17, and probably more if I looked around some. You certainly do your part to maintain demand for those old guns that I drool over in The Blue Book of Air Guns. Please accept my heart-felt thank you!!!
BTW, being an engineer, when my wife asks me “just how many airguns to you NEED?”, my answer is “N + 1” where “N” is equal to the number of airguns that I currently own!
Motorman
St. Louis
Motorman,
I will gladly accept the blame for all those airguns you mentioned. Bad BB!
B.B.
Daisy 200 C02 pistol is another one that if leaking, can’t always be repaired. I should say I failed trying to find someone to do it. I have two. One working and one not. The one that is working is due to BB’s tip about using ATF with Stop Leak. It bought one back to life. It did help the other, but that is ok, I’m delighted to shoot the working one. I had a third one, but since I couldn’t get anyone to “fix” them, I decided I’d tackle it on my own. I failed. It too went on to be a box of parts. Who knows where I’ve put what’s left of it.
Doc.
Hi Tom,
Hope you don’t mind I’m copying a reply I wrote in the razor sharpening comment section, so I can get your thoughts. I imagine you can’t take time to follow everything on the old threads.
I’ve moved upward in my search to the entry level of high end guns, looking now at the HW 100. Here’s my latest post, and just looking for your thoughts on caliber choice.
Copied: The 510 had me captivated. Until I got looking at shot strings and thinking about regulators. Many owners are very happy with their unregulated high end guns, but it seems to me one should look at this option. Sadly, a regulated 510 is to me a bit silly as it results in the pressure gauge reading regulated pressure, not tank pressure.
Looking at other options lead me to the HW 100. I cannot find a drawback to this gun apart from price, which is comparable to the 510, and in the world of high end guns, its still near that entry point of one G. My search has likely ended.
The final decision is caliber. So I studied airgun ballistics some and learned that .22 offers some advantages. This was helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IjK26Giaic
In addition, the US version of the HW 100 is tuned too hot in .177 for pellet stability and needs detuning by turning the hammer spring tension down. Not hard but may lead to some disruption of regulation.
Downsides of .22 I can think of are cost (still way cheap compared to powder burners), and a slight disadvantage in field competition (.177 fits through the holes better). I already have a big selection of .177 but I think I’ll order in .22, especially since the pellets that shoot well are well known so I don’t have to experiment a lot.
Any thoughts on caliber? (end copy)
I just found your series on the HW 100 so I’ll be taking a look at that next.
Idaho,
I think you are over-thinking this. You are making decisions based on numbers, which at this point, are all you have to go on.
First, .22 is not just a disadvantage in field target competition. It is not used. A few contrary people will try to shoot a few matches with a .22 before they discover why only .177 is ever used. Forget .22 for field target.
That said, .22 is my favorite airgun caliber. I can’t justify that with any hard data, I just like .22 caliber best.
Back to over-thinking. You are reading, looking at reports and trying to find one airgun that does it all. In my time in this hobby I have never found one airgun that does all things. It’s best to get one that does a few of the things that you want to do and go from there. This is why I recommend air rifles like the TX200, AirForce Talon SS, Benjamin Marauder and Discovery. They can get you into the hobby where you will begin to discover what is really important to you. They do it at a lower cost than the guns you are looking at. Sure, those guns have nicer features, but I can shoot just as accurately with a Talon SS. And a Marauder has just as nice a trigger. Do you see where I am coming from?
However, you have to live with the choice you make. It makes no difference what anyone else thinks or says.
My recommendation is to try to find someone near you who owns a few rifles similar to what you are looking for and see if he will let you shoot them. An event like the Pyramyd AIR Cup or the Texas Airgun Show, where you get to shoot many different airguns, is an ideal way to do this. If it costs you a plane ticket and a few nights in a motel, look at it as cheap insurance against major buyer’s remorse.
B.B.
Well I’ve certainly done a lot of thinking. As Chris said the research is fun. I’d love to get my hands on some guns but I’m in a small community in N Idaho. I’ve not been able to locate any clubs nearby. Stores carry very little. If my wife shared this interest a trip might happen. You were blessed with Edith.
Springers are off the menu. Im going to take a closer look at the talon. Accuracy is my first priority.
The feedback from you and others here is appreciated.
So I recall now why I passed over the talon in my research. It was the lack of a pressure gauge.
I like a lot about this gun. I would be ok with single shot.
But no gauge? Essentailly all other PCPs come with one.
Perhaps with such a large tank its less of an issue?
Idaho,
That was then. They have gauges now. Maybe I need to review the modern Talon SS. By the way, I recommend the SS over the Talon, because of the silencing effect.
B.B.
BB
Yes please review the new spin lock tank Talon SS.
I had both types of Talon SS’s. Spin lock and none spin lock.
Also the new spin lock SS models have the sound lock baffle kits already installed. They are even quieter than the old SS models.
I’m actually got my eye on a new Condor SS spin lock tank equiped gun in .25 caliber. They are around 950 fps. So I think that should be good to keep the crack out of the shot that people been complaining about with the smaller.22 and .177 caliber Condor SS’s even with the factory installed sound lock kits in them. I guess people don’t realize your still going to get a crack if your above the sound barrerier.
But yes please do a review on the new Talon SS’s.
Reviewing. Very interesting. All quality parts, LW barrel, biggest tank around, quiet, very affordable, very moddable, major forum support, US made. Ugly but that’s not a deal breaker.
No regulator but I imagine this could be added if desired.
This is for sure a candidate. They’ve done some nice updates.
Thanks.
I’ve found the user forums to be a valuable source for unvarnished information.
Today’s conclusions:
Lots of enthusiasm and satisfaction on the part of AirForce owners.
Real appreciation for their unique design and place in the market.
More confirmation of how price is a good indicator of what has gone into the product.
It is apparent to me these guns are of respectable quality, but not in the same build quality category as the likes of Weihrauch and Air Arms.
I’m enjoying expanding my knowledge base. The technical side of PCP guns I find to be fascinating. This is for me, significant in the purchase decision. Performance comes first but there is also an appreciation for a very well executed piece of technology.
I could be quite happy at either level, but am drawn to the higher build quality.
Idaho,
Speaking for me, I do not have regrets assuming that I did not rush my research. Having done good research, I am happy with my decision. Whatever you pick, I think that you will be happy. You are also willing to pay up a bit, so that only stacks the odds in you favor that you will be happy.
There is no way to know what you will think 2 years down the road. You will grow and learn and your taste may well change. At least you are getting off to a nice start now and that is the main thing.
Chris
Did you get any target time on your Maximus yet after the regulator install?
And did you get your air stripper yet?
GF1,
I have not. Today was the day, 51, a bit cool, no wind. I even made some targets. I am feeling a bit under the weather. I have not been sick in 30+ years. People at work have been dropping like flies and I think that I got a touch of it. Slight chill plus tired.
The A.V. air stripper fit super nice as did the moderator insert. Really, without an outer shell for the mod. insert, they are basically doing the same thing. I did fire it with the air stripper and no clipping. I will keep you posted. Maybe tomorrow. As winter wears on, all of the guns will see some 41′ indoor use,.. just to keep the parts moving.
Chris
Lucky you on not being sick. And yep everybody at work has it too along with my wife’s work and the daughter says everybody at school has it. So far we all been lucky this time around.
And it’s wonderful here today for December. 63° and sunshiny blue sky’s and calm as can be.
I only been out shooting for about a half hour and already got a 100 rounds through the WildFire. And that’s counting reloading the clips and filling the gun back up. Getting ready to shoot again soon as I get through replying.
Oh and Pyramyd AIR has the WildFires on sale right now for a couple days for $99. That’s a good deal in my opinion and resorting back to the hundred dollar pcp. Here it is. Well for a bit anyway. 🙂
And yep I wasn’t sure how you was going to use the Crosman baffle. But yep with no shroud over it. It would be just like a air stripper. Anyway let me know if you shoot it with both the baffle and the actual air stripper you got. The true air stripper you have is what I’m mostly interested in hearing the results from.
And hope you feel better. Bet you notice right away that you don’t feel good if you haven’t been sick for the 30+ years.
GF1,
I could not resist and pulled the trigger on a Wildfire this morning. For $99 what a deal. It should be here next week. Kate said she would buy it for my Christmas gift.
Now that I have a large 4,500 psi bottle I also had to order more pellets. I will be going through alot with the wildfire and not worrying about it freezing up like the 1077.
While I am waiting for it , I can start making some more reactive targets, with a little bigger kill zone.
Don
Don
Very glad to hear that. Almost ordered me another one too when I seen the sale on it today. I did one of those walk around the room talking to myself things. 🙂
But yep todays has turned out to be a major plinking day for me and the daughters. I was shooting the WildFire by myself at some wild feral cans. Then they wanted to join in with the 2 Daisy 74’s we have. Then decided to get out the Steel Force for some full auto blasting and with no Co2 freeze up. Haven’t shot that in a while because I have it converted to use the Air Venturi 1200 psi regulated HPA bottle and hose. Well that regulated HPA bottle went on my QB79. And that was another cool thing. All I had to do was unscrew the bottle out of the QB79. No degassing or anything. It’s got a automatic check valve that closes when you unscrew it. Then screw it right onto my Steel Storm adapter. Love that interchangeability stuff.
But cool can’t wait to hear how your WildFire goes. Shooting a air gun rapid fire can’t be any funner than that. 🙂
I’m tempted by that Wildfire for $99 deal as well. It could be a nice stablemate for whatever I choose for a higher end PCP. Grandkids would likely love it, but I have good ones for them already. Then again, one can always find a reason for any half decent gun at that price. I decided against it seeing how many leakage problems showed up on the Pyramid reviews.
Idaho
Take the chance on the WildFire.
Here’s the way I look at it. But first ok I know it should work right from the factory.
But I had 2 high dollar FX Monsoons. One worked great. The other kept doing rapid leak downs from the barrel. So a valve seating issue was happening.
Point is I have just as much fun with my $150 WildFire as I did with my $1500 Monsoon. And for only $99 it’s a better gamble than the FX. Plus you can always return the WildFire if needed.
Like I said. Fun guns.
Hi Don
Wondering if you could comment a little on building reactive targets. I have shop and the equipment, might be fun to do.
Idaho,
Here is the PA link if you have not seen it.
/blog//category/targets/
I will show some pictures tomorrow if you would like. For the most part mine are pretty easy to make and are spinners hanging from a frame of 1/4 to 3/8 iron rod bent to have two legs to stick in the ground and a horizontal length long enough for however many spinners you want to hang from it. I have also made some simple field targets that will reset. If you want I will post some pictures tomorrow, when it is light out.
Here is a good link to make your own field targets.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/16818198588404652/
Here is the ones I made.
http://www.airguns.net/ft_woodfieldtarget.php
Both Vana2 and Codeuce have made some very good targets and shared their plans
Here is the link to Codeuce’s targets
/blog/2017/11/codeuce-spinner-targets-part-2/
Here is the link to Vana2’s targets.
/blog/2017/03/diy-spinner-targets/
Let us see what you make. I have almost as much fun making the targets as shooting at them.
Don
That’s a lot of really good info. I am very much a DIY type with a shop packed so full of tools I have to keep them on rolling stands in order to have free space. This includes a plasma cutter that has not been used nearly enough.
I agree making them would be a lot of fun.
Thanks a bunch. Pics would be great.
Chris U,
Get better soon. I cant wait to hear how your mods work out.
Don
Don,
Thanks! I am back from the near dead. 12 hrs. sleep with 2 heavy quilted flannels and even jeans. Still feeling a little off, but good enough to get outside and shoot. I am still formulating the testing, but I will be testing the regulator for tighter groups. Also the A.V. air stripper. It is adjustable with the inner sleeve/cone so that will add variables to the testing. Then, the moderator insert, which without an outer shell, acts just like a cruder air stripper. It is 5 1/2″ long x 1″ diam. and all plastic. The stripper is all metal and 3″ x 1″. Oh yea, shoot groups with the stock muzzle cap on first so as to have a comparison.
I am figuring 30 yards and maybe 5 shot groups to start. If something appears to be working, I will go to 10 shots and maybe even do a 50 yard group.
Chris
Will be waiting to hear what you find.
And I didn’t know the Air Venturi stripper was adjustable. I like that.
Chri U,
Glad you are felling better. Saw your responses below good luck.
Don
Idaho
Reading your comment today.
What exactly do you want out of a air gun?
Have you shot firearms before getting interested in air guns?
I guess where I’m going is why have you now chosen air guns?
Gunfun
Like your monicker – fun!
Seriously though, I’ve had a passion for air guns since childhood. I have a modest collection of lower end air rifles, and having grown up hunting, have a larger firearm stash. I can shoot rimfire on my property, but don’t much out of respect for neighbors.
I’ll copy what I wrote earlier on the razor sharpening blog. I forgot to mention in that story, there’s an R9 in the airgun collection. Here’s part of my first post:
I’ll throw in some history to add interest. As a child I pined for a pellet gun for a number of years before finally being given one for Christmas at around age 10. Although just an inexpensive off brand springer, it became the thing my life revolved around. It was a rare day I was not out in the bush with it. I had a Collie / Dingo mix dog (yes it was half wild Dingo) that would find me whenever he had located a squirrel, knowing what my pellet gun could do to satisfy his passion for the kill.
For some reason squirrels sent him into a state of fury. He would come to me, his mouth in a lather, panting, mouth sometimes bleeding from biting branches, trying to climb the tree to get at the critter. The scolding chatter from the squirrel enraged him all the more. It was not unusual for him to jump high and catch the squirrel in the air after my shot. We made a good team.
I’m semi-retired now, with some time to renew my interest in airguns. Over the years I’ve collected a half dozen or so inexpensive plinkers, including springers, a Daisy single pump, and Crosmans in CO2 and nitro piston variants, all in the .177 I grew up with. I’d like to step up to something better.
I doubt I will hunt much. I intend to punch paper, and may set up a field target course on my property with the idea of having fun with grandkids.
Obviously airguns have come a long way. I’ve read enough to have some understanding of the newer technologies, and looked at quite a few reviews of various guns. While I likely won’t enter competitions, I’d like to own something accurate enough to be capable of competing in field target. What I crave most is accuracy.
My conclusion so far is that PCP is the right powerplant, preferably regulated. The added expense of filling I will live with. It will have a quality scope as my eyes no longer allow for ease with open sights and I enjoy shooting with a scope.
Of course if money were no object I’d simply order something like what’s being used by the winners in field target competition. But that would be extravagant and I am not. So I’m hoping to find the threshold. Accuracy without spending more than I need to.
Idaho
I would of swore that was me talking when I just read your comment. 🙂
And I always wanted to get a Australian Shepherd Dingo mix. I bet that Collie Dingo mix was a good dog. I had a Rat Terrier that passed away a few years back. Had that dog for 18 years. He was a excellent sqerrial dog. About the last 5 years he slowed down and didn’t want to go out anymore. But I just got me another Rat Terrier about a year ago. Both his parents are several generations of sqerrial dogs. Needless to say me and him have been doing real well together. It’s almost like I have my old sqerrial dog back. Very happy with him. And he gets along good with my 16 and 19 year old daughter’s wich by the way shoot also. Air guns shot guns and they both kick my butt shooting bow and arrow.
All I can say is about what you choose for your next air gun is let us know what you get and how it does. 🙂
I will for sure.
I still think about and miss that dog.
We have more in common. I have three daughters. Only one of them likes to hunt though.
I also have 5 grandkids, the oldest grandson is 10 and he loves to shoot. There are twin grandsons in the pipeline, now 5 months old.
I’m looking at fill options, noted you use a handpump augmented by an oil free compressor and get one pump per shot filling to 3000 psi or so. Could you describe your setup a little more?
Idaho
No grandkids yet. Will be happy when they happen but hope note for a while yet. I don’t know if I’m ready for my little girls getting called mom yet. Well I guess they will always be my little girls no matter how old I get. So what is to be will I suppose.
And yep I did the hand pumping for a while. But a few weeks or so ago I got one of those $300 China HPA self contained compressor’s and loving every minute of it. It’s extremely fast. Way faster than the Shoebox compressor I had.
Don’t know how long it will last but if it gets 5 years I’ll be happy. By then if it makes it I figure I saved enough to justify getting another. As I say. Time Will Tell.
Idaho
Sorry didn’t answer you.
Here is a picture of it. See what you think.
Idaho
And here is the China compressor I have now.
Thanks. I’ve been looking at those compressors as well. EBAY I presume?
I suspect they will be fine for light use.
1 pump per shot is not bad though. What brand hand pump? I’m not sure they all have the assist option.
Idaho
Actually the China compressor’s are for filling big tanks. The Shoebox compressor will have a hard time filling big tanks. That was the purpose of me getting the China compressor. I will get a big tank for the Wing Shot air shotgun when I get it. That way I can fill it if I go out in the feild or woods.
And the hand pump is a Benjamin. And haven’t looked into the other hand pumps to see what the air intake looks like.
I can see myself with some big bore PCP eventually.
I shotgun? The ammo must be something special.
Idaho
Here’s the gun.
/product/seneca-wing-shot-2015?m=4341
Here’s the ammo.
/ammo/pellets/pt_6/calibers_0_5
Idaho
And when it says consider newer model. X that out.
I don’t like how PA links it that way. If you stop there you don’t see the full description of the gun. Kind of misleading.
So .50 cal or shotshell. Amazing what’s out there.
No end to the possibilities and the fun.
BTW how did you know about Dingo mixes? I grew up in Canada up on the Alaska highway. He lived on the acreage my family purchased and was adopted by us.
Idaho
Nice about your dog.
And honestly how I know about Dingo mixes is from my dad when I was a kid on the farm. My dad use to tell me they were the best for hearding and companionship.
I always wanted one. And on another note my dad always had German Shepherds on the farm. We had 6 at one time. And that’s when I just turned 13. They were the best. They was always around somewhere when I was out about on the farm.
Oh and it might sound like I’m from Australia. But nope. Illinois.
B.B.
Ive seen you mention scragging now a couple of times over the years and I find making use of this in your arsenal of tools intriguing. My only experience with spring science has been switching out a longer Feinwerkbau spring for a shorter Maccari spring. It made me think of two things: first, is there ever a situation where you could achieve a desired tuning result by stretching the spring, and second, is it possible to detune a very harsh 1400 fps springer into something tamer by simply leaving it cocked for an extended length of time?
Larry in Algona
LarryMo,
Both of those fixes have problems. Stretching a spring and you ruin the spring. It gets weaker. Maybe it will be powerful for a few dozen shots, but then it will bend and get weaker.
Leaving a spring cocked a long time will cause it to bend, making the gun shoor harsher. It doesn’t scrag the spring, it bends it.
B.B.
B.B.
OK, thanks for the reply! I knew you had good reasons for not doing either of these but it’s good to know the science behind it.
LMo
Larry,
Interestingly,.. GF1 progressively cut a spring shorter in a TX200 and had no loss of FPS. Past a certain point of compression, there is no added gain in fps. I think that most would agree that many springers are way over sprung. You will have to ask GF1 for all of the specifics if you are interested further.
Chris USA,
Yes, I remember reading his entries on this. I was looking more for a “what if I tried this, would it work, or what would the results be?” B.B. pretty well covered that for me. Thanks for the reminder, tho. I may go back and reread some of those entries.
LMo
LarryMo
All I can say is I just don’t understand why they over spring them.
All it does is overstress the components.
Chris
Yep and did some other magnum springers that turned into nice shooters after taking 3 inches or more off the spring.
Just make me cringe at what it did to the componants of the guns. Why would they want to put excess stress on cocking arms and pins and so on is beyond me.
Gunfun1 & Chris USA,
I’m in sort of the same situation with a very hard cocking, not much fun to shoot Umerex Octane that I bought in a moment of weakness and it was on sale as refurbished. I haven’t decided if I want to sell it or just use it as a training tool and tear into it.
I’ve got three rifles now (out of ten) that I REALLY like shooting so the rest are just taking up space.
Thanks again – keep well.
LMo
LarryMo
Since you have it already. Why not open it up and see what happens when you change it around.
Maybe you will find something we have all overlooked and end up with a really super accurate gun. 🙂
GF1,
Finding something you guys have overlooked is highly unlikely. To tell the truth, even if it became easier to cock, became smooth as glass and approached PCP accuracy, I have no real desire to spend much time with it as a shooter. It’s just not my idea of a fun gun, Gunfun.
LMo
LarryMo
Yep I tried them kind of guns too in the past. Just not enjoyable to shoot.
Matter of fact that’s why I shoot my air guns mostly than my firearms. Tired of getting my shoulder knocked off.
Speaking of that. That’s why I want one of the Wing Shot air shotguns.
I’m thinking it’s going to be tamer to shoot than a 410 but still pattern inbetween a 410 and 20 gauge out at 30 or so yards. If so that should make for some good hits.
I would even like to try some trap shooting with it.
But yep got to be a fun gun for Gunfun1. 🙂
Gunfun1
I’m looking forward to your comments on the Wing Shot. If I was ever going to get a PCP, it would be for shooting arrows.
LMo
LarryMo
Really. Why?
Like to know your reasoning.
And I did fail to mention that above about ammo for the Wing Shot.
Arrows. And that is another reason I want one. They are a pretty resourceful air gun.
Arrows. I guess that’s taking blow guns to the extreme. 🙂
Gunfun1,
Going back to a previous comment to answer your question – it ran me out of “reply” space.
MDriskill’s comment above pretty much also spoke for me.
I’ve always liked keeping things simple and then perfecting on it. A couple of examples would be that I prefer a long bow over a compound, my ’03A3 .30/’06 over any of the newer hunting rifles chambered for 6.5mm Creedmoor, and my Indian Arms knockoff of the Walther PPK over any Glock. My only shotgun is a double barrel black powder from Navy Arms with interchangeable 12 and 10 gauge barrels. I have a .50 cal. Hatfield long rifle with a double-set trigger and my FWB 127 has a trigger that feels exactly the same without having to move my finger. I have a new Walther Terrus that I love and an absolutely wonderful and tuned Chinese copy of a Diana (XS25) that I also love. I’m going into my 70th year and sure don’t need to start something new.
I hope this answers your question about why I’m not likely to buy a PCP. I could have added a whole lot more like why my 35 year old Webley Premier MK II along with my P17 and 1377 suit me better than any CO2 or PCP pistol. Basically, it’s just me.
Larry in Algona
LarryMo
I was talking about why would you be interested in shooting arrows with a PCP.
Gunfun1,
Well, I guess I wasted a lot of time answering the unquestioned.
I made a rhetorical statement about IF I would ever buy a PCP. I watched a couple of videos on these arrow launchers and they appear to be extremely accurate and have speeds surpassing the most modern compounds. I’m pretty sure the noise would negate any advantage in the woods, tho. So bottom line, I wouldn’t be enticed to buy a PCP even for the archery.
LMo
LarryMo
As it goes. You already have tryed all these other guns.
You never know. You try a PCP and it might just change your mind.
Gunfun1
Ah Hah! Finally questioned. Besides my previous response I guess I should also add that I require some conflict. I know, that sounds weird since I am by nature very non-confrontational.O More examples would be like when I was a lot younger and a lot stronger, I didn’t enjoy shooting any bow of less than 55 lbs. I was in shooter’s heaven with the hottest .44 mag and .357 mag rounds. As far as air guns, at the time I also had a FWB 65 that was totally recoilless with an option to block the slide rail to return the recoil. Guess which option it was always set up for. I gave my brother all my CO2 pistols and tolerate a P17 and 1377 but I don’t shoot them that much. I’m certain a PCP would just be too easy and therefore, boring.
LMo
Since it’s Christmas time soon I thought about this for some reason tonight watching Christmas movies on TV with the family.
When I was young we lived on a farm. There was really nothing around. My dad and mom and us kids would help decorate the house and a few trees outside with lights. Mom would take care of the inside decorating though. It was hands off for us kids. And my dad would usually help with the hard to get to stuff but mostly it was mom doing the inside decorating. Oh and yes me and my wife still have decorations from back then.
But some of the things I remembered was we would go into town and do what my mom called window shopping. What I remember seeing back then was stores next to each other like maybe what we call shopping strip malls today. I looked at all the things they had decorated up in the windows. Definitely a bunch of flashy sparkly strands all over the place. Then the old big colored bulbs. Then of course some toys and mannequins dressed all up with clothes you could buy in the store.
But when we went inside. I was amazed. It’s like the window was not decorated half as good as it was inside. Well on some of the stores anyway. Other stores just wasn’t up to the decorating as much as others.
One store that I remember most was the Sears and Roebuck store. They had a big model train layout with all kinds Christmas stuff in it and even slot car tracks you could do that was set up with a town and stuff like the train display.
Anyway pretty cool stuff when your a kid to see. What I wonder is if anybody else remembers this when they was a kid?
GF1,
Sears and Roebuck, what ever happened to Roebuck? And what happened to their catalogue? One of my favorite activities around this time of year was to climb into a comfy couch or chair,grab the Sears and Roebuck catalog and make a wish list writing down the item and page numbers. Back then the pages of firearms and airguns got so dog eared from repeatedly looking at them that you didn’t need to turn down the page corners to find the section. Hundreds of pages to go through that was a big catalog. Which makes me wonder do you think someone would ever write a song called swiping the screen? I don’t think even Bob Seger could make that resonate.
Coduece
Yep same for me when I was a kid. Well even when I got older.
I use to circle the things I wanted and put a number beside it of what I wanted from the least important to most important.
Hey now I know how Santa always knew what I wanted for Christmas. 🙂
And you know what. I still do that with my Pyramyd AIR catalog.
GF1,
I remember all of that very well. See reply to Benji-Don up a short ways regarding today’s plans.
Chris,
Glad your feeling better! Looking forward to some interesting posts today.
Chris
Just read it and replied above.
GF1,
Sorry to say that I have nothing definitive to report. I decided to shoot at 50 yards. Groups were good at around 25mm. with some fliers/pulls making it worse. 2 of the best looking ones were the moderator insert and the A.V. air stripper set at mid position. It has 12mm. fore and aft adjustment.
It has been at least a month since I have shot outside,.. so that did not help I am sure. My first 5 warmup shots at 36 yards put 5 into 1/2″,.. so I figured I had better move out to the 50 yard marker.
More testing required. 🙁
Chris
Well as it’s said. Practice makes perfect. I shoot everyday now. Especially after going to 2nd shift at work. Got to keep in the groove ya know. 🙂
And that’s not bad group’s really. But I do know what you mean. I definitely know when I’m not shooting as good as normal.
And again I do like the idea of the adjustable Air Venturi stripper. I might look into something for my Maximus. So will be watching what results you get. I’m not worried about noise out where I’m at so if it improves my shooting then good. But man my Maximus is already really accurate. It’s going to have to be real good for me to see a improvement.
And yes I a agree. More testing is needed on your air strippers. But that is good so far since you said that that was your best group’s with them. I’m thinking you might just be on to something once you get back in the groove. 🙂
Coduece,
Loved those old catalogs. My favorite was the Herter’s catalog. I have a 1971 Herter’s catalog, it is pretty good. The ones from the early 1960’s were best. When you could still mail order guns.
I have a couple of reprints of Sears, Roebuck and Co. catalogues a 1902 and a 1927. How about in 1902 a Colt 38 cal. automatic pistol for $18.50. A Winchster 1894 in 32-49 cal for $11.55. Or the improved Daisy air rfle for 73 cents.
In the Herter’s catolog there is a Crosman 600 pistol for $28.60 and a Sheridan .20 cal. in blue or silver for $33.50
Those are the common guns they have some real collectors. Wish I could still order some of that stuff.
Don
Supposed to be 32-40 cal. Also had themodel 94 in 38-55, 25-35 I like that one and the new 30-30 calibers.
Don,
Thanks for looking that stuff up it’s very interesting, I wonder how those prices hold up adjusted for inflation? I was only six in 71 so I can’t speak to the average wage back then.
Benji-Don
And yep I was hoping someone would bring that up about mail order firearms.
I remember seeing that but was young then.
We had a Grandpa Pigeons store by us in town when I was a kid. It had a wall full of guns in racks. At least a 25 yard long wall. And yep even air guns. I remember when I was 10 I really, really wanted my own rimfire gun. I would go there and spend the whole time looking at all the guns when my mom and dad shopped. And that was my best Christmas ever when I open up that long box under the tree and inside that box was my Winchester 190. And yes I still have it. And yes it still shoots nice. And yep I do still shoot it. 🙂
Benji-Don,
Herter’s was my favorite, too. I used to tell people they could move to the remotest Canadian North woods and if they could build a log cabin, they could outfit it and get everything you needed to survive from the Herter’s catalog.
LMo
Hi Tom, I just bought a San Rafael Beeman C1 on ebay for $110 including shipping. Only one guy bid against me. Go figure. It’s the early one with the safety located between your ears.
I would have never known about the C1 if it weren’t for you. Thanks again 🙂 It kinda looks like the Bronco
Peace out, John
P.S. It’s in 0.177 and a bit of a beater.
John,
The C1 is where I got the inspiration for the Bronco.
B.B.
Hi Tom,
I bought a Terrus over the Bronco back in 2015 thinking I would get the Bronco next. When I went back for the Bronco about month later, it wasn’t available any longer. It was a bit of a disappointment.
BTW, Nice 10 meter shooting with the P1. Your’e a pretty good shot.
Thanks again, John
B.B.,
I just picked up my new vintage C1. It is in much better shape than the ebay photos led me to believe!
Lube wise It appears to be bone dry. So I only fired it 3 times. Very good penetration in duct putty! The trigger is nice too, Maybe 1/16″ creep then bang! I can’t find a ding in the stock or a mar in the screws. This is $110 very well spent.
I could go on and on 🙂 Maybe I will if there is any interest 🙂 I have a lot of questions too. for instance, do you know if this early model has a leather seal?
As always,
Thanks, John
Here’s a picture of the lock up. It gives a much better idea of the condition. What should/can I do about the rust/blue?
I told you I could go on and on 🙂
Tnx. John
John,
Bluing is rust! Black oxide, which your gun has is also rust. Spray it with Ballistol and used OOOO steel wool on the rust after a day. The rust will be gone and leave either bluing or patina in its place.
By the way, the entire gun will have rust, which a cloth soaked with Ballistol will reveal. Just wipe it down with that cloth repeatedly and it will keep getting better.
B.B.
John,
If the trigger is nice that rifle is broken in. That means it should be easier to cock and very smooth shooting, as well. The piston seal is PTFE if it is original and that means it will form to the compression chamber as it shoots. So it’s probably super well-fitted right now.
B.B.
Thanks B.B.
I’m thinking I’ll start off with fresh lube. I have both RWS chamber and spring lube. One drop in the chamber or maybe two. Then all the pivots. I don’t see any need to open it up yet…
I don’t know if this is going to be a problem, but their is some reverse barrel droop. Here is a picture… click it for a bigger image…
John,
I think you know what that “reverse barrel droop” is, don’t you? At some point, this rifle has been fired with the barrel open. It will tend to shoot high because of this, if a scope is mounted. However, with the open sights both mounted on the barrel, it will probably shoot okay. If anything, it will now shoot low with the open sights.
The good news is, you can correct this by bending the barred straight again. That’s all covered in this 5-part report:
/blog/2012/09/bending-airgun-barrels-part-5/
The rifle in this report wasn’t scoped, but had a peep sight mounted to the spring tube, so the effect was the same as if it had been scoped.
B.B.
Great B.B.,
I’ll do the homework. Thanks.
John
Thanks B.B.,
I read the bent barrel series. Thanks for all that information. 🙂 Your BSF S70 reminded me that I have an S60 that May have a broken spring. But that’s a project for another day.
The barrel on my C1 appeared dead straight to the naked eye. So I put it up against a straight edge. It is dead straight! Not only up and down but right and left. (See picture)
I’m thinking this may have to do with the breach seal being opposite of most other types?
BTW I hate barrel droop! 🙂
Next up is the funnest part. The shooting tests! The rear sight is smashed so I’m going to hang a bugbuster. Hopefully that up droop won’t amount to anything. Thanks again for everything!
John
John,
I hope it works out for you.
B.B.
Thanks B.B.!
I’m not a great shot by any means so I need the rifle to be accurate. This C1 is working out great!
Thanks again 🙂
John
Hi B.B.,
Here’s a couple of more groups… This gun out shoots my skill level. I’m sure a better shooter could get tighter groups. Also the trigger is showing its weaknesses. If I squeeze it slow and smooth I can tell when it will break.
And that’s good! But it creeps about 1/4″ and three semi rough clicks first. Not bad, but not great either. Any thoughts on how to improve it would be very helpful.
Thanks for taking the time over here in this forgotten corner of the blog! 🙂
John
John,
Did you know that the C1 was the rifle that gave me the idea for the hold I now call the artillery hold? I even wrote a short article and sent it to Dr. Beeman, but I never heard anything.
As I recall, one of my best groups was 5 shots in 0.10-inches at 10 meters.
As far as the trigger goes, it isn’t very adjustable, but it does break in to become quite smooth. Just shoot the rifle and see how it improves.
B.B.
B.B.
Iv’e read a lot of your writing about spring guns. You have taught me most of everything I know about them! That’s why I’m always profusely thanking you:)
This C1 is very accurate! Only my Avanti 753 is more accurate. But it has nowhere near the power. I can live with the trigger easily.:)
Check out these 25 yard groups. The left is H&N Finale Match (my favorite pellet) 5/8″ c.t.c. ! Unbelievable! The right, RWS Superdomes 1-3/16″
BTW Whatever became of Dr. Beeman?
Oh yeah, Thank you Thank you Thank you 🙂 John
John,
Dr. Beeman is still living in Northern California. He is advancing in years, but he now has time to enjoy is fabulous airgun collection, which is one of the nicest ones in the world.
B.B.
Hi B.B.
This old C1 air gun is almost perfect!
Cheers to Dr. Beeman! 🙂
P.S. Jim Chapman has also written about his affection for the C1. The article says He’s taken more quarry with it than any other airgun. And, He still takes it out at least once a year. (:
John
John,
I’m glad to see you are having so much fun with your acquisition.
B.B.
Hi Big Boss, 🙂
Listen; There is an early artillery hold video on Youtube with you and what looks like a C1. Is that correct?
I am trying to shoot 50 pellets a day with the C1. That’s five ten shot groups. About 48 out of the 50 are landing under a dime.
I would be having some really great groups if I cut down to 5 shots. That won’t tell the whole truth though.
I’m trying to find out exactly what I can expect accuracy wise out of a good spring gun.
Is it me or the gun? I hope it turns out to be me because spring guns are really fun to shoot!
Tnx, John
John,
There are several videos of me doing the artillery hold on You Tube. One is with a C1, so I will say yes.
At 10 meters the best 5-shot group I shot measured 0.13-inches C-T-C. That one was what convinced me the artillery hold was real.
B.B.
B.B.
Thinking out loud here, if 1/8″ = 0.125″ Id’e say You were talking about one hole at 10 meters. OOPS! You said CTC. If I’m correct that allows for a 1/4″ hole. That’s a superb group.
And while it is a superb single group, I think we agree that 10 shot groups tell more of the true story. Right?
Tnx, John