by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
The Crosman Town and Country I tested was a model 108 in .22 caliber.
This report covers:
- Town and Country
- Was the Supergrade the influence?
- Description
- Front sight was a marvel!
- Short pump lever
- Velocity
- Accuracy
- Summary
When I was in the hospital for three months in 2010, my wife Edith kept this blog alive by publishing reprints of articles I had written for Airgun Revue magazine. One of those articles was the one I’m publishing today, with the difference being I am here now to edit my remarks and to lighten the black and white pictures.
Town and Country
A glance in the Blue Book of Airguns reveals that the Crosman Town and Country multi pump air rifle was made in 1949. That’s correct — ONE YEAR! Collectors debate whether it was also produced for a while in 1950, but the point is — this is one scarce airgun. And, look at that date again. What else was happening in the world of airguns, here in the U.S., in the late 1940s? Sheridan was making their model A, Supergrade!
Was the Supergrade the influence?
Many collectors have speculated that Crosman was challenging the Sheridan models A and B with their models 107 and 108 Town and Country pneumatics. Or at least they were trying to carve out their place in the upscale airgun market. I agree with them. These multi-pumps were quite different than the models 100, 101, 102 and 104 multi-pumps that Crosman had successfully been making and selling since 1924. For starters, they had full stocks instead of the exposed receivers with separate butt and forearm of the earlier rifles that must have appeared archaic in the years following WW II. The Supergrade showed the world what airgunners wanted, and Crosman was quick to adapt. However, they probably learned just as quickly that, while airgunners may have wanted nicer airguns, they were unwilling to pay for them. The model B Sheridan, priced at $35, compared to the Supergrade’s $56.50, was an acknowledgement of that.
The Town and Country was priced at $24.95 — a full ten dollars less than Sheridan’s model B and $31.55 less than the model A. While that sounds cheap to our inflation-deadened ears, consider that the still-impressive, if somewhat dated, model 101 was selling for $19.80 at the same time. And when Crosman brought out the Town and Country, they also brought out the models 109 and 110 (.177 and .22) Town and Country Junior — a rifle with a similar appearance that was priced at just $14.95. Now you tell me — which will you buy —a new eco-friendly all-electric Tesla for $69,000, or that gasser econobox Fiat 500 for $12,000? If you are a celebrity you’ll get the Tesla to be seen in and you’ll keep a Roller as your go-to vehicle. But a working stiff has to make do with just one reliable car.
People do make decisions based on cost. Marketing can offset some objections, but the bottom line is often just that.
Description
The Town and Country came in two calibers — the rare 107 is the .177 and the somewhat more common 108 is the .22. Except for the calibers, both rifles are identical. Then there was the T&C Junior — also in both calibers. I never owned a T&C Junior, but I did have a model 120 that was that rifle’s next generation. It was much shorter, slimmer and lighter than the T&C, yet it produced about the same power. Now, put that into the lineup, and then try to sell the more expensive gun. I remember years ago when the Chinese company BAM made the B40 — a copy of the TX200 that was extremely realistic, well-made and priced at less than half!
The T&C was somewhat larger than other Crosman pneumatics. It had a separate receiver, where the T&C Junior and model 120 had vestigial receivers like the current Benjamin 392. It featured a peep sight at the rear, although that was nothing new. Crosman had been using peeps on their 100-series rifles from the beginning.
Not only is the rear sight an adjustable peep, there is an open notch above it. This is the kind of innovation that sells airguns!
As you can see in the image, the peep sight adjustment was somewhat crude. But it worked. Besides that rear peep, Crosman put an open notch above it that adjusted with the peep. That gave owners a choice, and choices help sell airguns.
Front sight was a marvel!
If the rear sight is worth consideration, the front sight will take your breath away. It is the feature that makes this model a Town and Country. There are two different front sight posts — one tall for shooting close (Town) and one low for shooting far (Country). As you know, the strike of the round moves in the opposite direction that the front sight moves.
The tall “Town” front sight is up. It is what you see when you sight the rifle.
The collar in front of the front sight assembly is unscrewed, freeing the tall front sight to rotate out of the way.
The tall sight is rotated to the right, down and out of the way of the shorter front sight that is now seen when the rifle is aimed.
Short pump lever
As robust as the stock appears, the pump lever is surprisingly short. It reminds me more of the little model 760 that came a decade later, rather than the pump lever on a 100-series pneumatic that was its immediate predecessor. The short throw of the lever makes for easy pump strokes, so you can quickly build up to the recommended 8-10 pump maximum. When you do, though, the rifle doesn’t have the same power as other Crosman pneumatics — at least the one I tested didn’t. In a moment, I’ll tell you why I believe that is; but for now, let’s look at the performance:
Velocity
.22-caliber Crosman Town and Country
66 degrees F, muzzle 12 inches from start screen
Crosman Premier 5 pumps
Average velocity 453 f.p.s.
High 461 f.p.s.
Low 445 f.p.s.
Spread 16 f.p.s.
Muzzle energy 6.52 ft. lbs.
Crosman Premier 8 pumps
Average velocity 519 f.p.s.
High 531 f.p.s.
Low 509 f.p.s.
Spread 22 f.p.s.
Muzzle energy 8.56 ft. lbs.
RWS Superpoint 5 pumps
Average velocity 433 f.p.s.
High 438 f.p.s.
Low 429 f.p.s.
Spread 9 f.p.s.
Muzzle energy 6.04 ft. lbs.
RWS Superpoint 8 pumps
Average velocity 502 f.p.s.
High 507 f.p.s.
Low 495 f.p.s.
Spread 12 f.p.s.
Muzzle energy 8.12 ft. lbs.
These velocity figures seem low, when other Crosman pneumatics deliver 12 foot-pounds and often more. I believe the reason for this is the method of breech sealing employed by the T&C. On the rear of the bolt, a protruding pin slips into a cam slot in the receiver when the bolt is rotated closed. As this pin engages the cam, it forces the ground bolt face forward into a mating section of the breech. In other words, the T&C bolt seals the breech with a metal-to-metal contact at the bolt/barrel interface. Now, that fact, by itself, is nothing new to airgunning. The 101 does thew same thing. Airgun makers have been using that design for some time. But to effect a good seal this way, both pieces of metal must be ground to fit, and the cam must be a positive one; it has to hold the bolt in place. On the rifle I tested, the cam angle was so steep that the bolt could not help but rotate open slightly under the force of the air blast. In short, it wouldn’t stay closed.
I noticed a puff of air around my right hand every time the rifle fired, which I initially blamed on the recent resealing job my test rifle had gotten before the test. Then, I examined the bolt lockup more closely and discovered that the real problem was a loose bolt seal. No matter how hard I closed the bolt, that steep cam slot invited it to spring back just enough to exhaust some air. The problem was solved by manually holding the bolt closed with the thumb of my shooting hand as I pulled the trigger. There was still a small puff of air, but it was greatly diminished from what it had been. A real fanatic might have used some automotive valve-grinding compound to hand-lap the front of the bolt into the rear of the barrel; but this wasn’t my rifle, so I left it at that.
Accuracy
Accuracy wasn’t bad, but it also wasn’t that great when compared to what other vintage Crosman rifles can do. RWS Hobbys were the best, shooting a dime-sized group of five off a rest at 10 meters. Five Premiers went into a slightly larger hole, but both pellets shot groups with a tight cluster of four plus one flyer. Surprisingly, the best accuracy with both pellets was at a full eight pumps. Usually, I’ve found that pneumatics prefer the middle of their power range. Perhaps, the T&C that I tested, being so tame, is better able to handle pellets at its top power.
Five RWS Hobbys went into a very tight group. A dime will cover all shots.
So, if you’re thinking about adding a T&C to your airgun collection, do it for the nostalgia rather than the power potential.
Summary
If this really was a challenge of the Sheridan models A and B, how did Crosman do? They did well, in my opinion. But it just wasn’t enough. It wasn’t low power that killed the Town and Country, because private individuals didn’t own chronographs in 1949. It had to have been the price. The market just wasn’t ready to spend $25 for an air rifle. And, after examining the advertising of the period, Crosman marketing didn’t give them a good enough reason to do so — any more than Sheridan did for their Supergrade. The thing we need to consider is, if the T&C were to come to market today, would buyers be willing to pony up $350-400 for one? It’s easy to say they would, but when a company like Crosman decides to sell a product they need sales in the thousands to justify the costs needed to bring it to market.
BB,
Unfortunately, I do have to agree with your summary. No matter how much a few individuals may want a particular widget, unless the numbers are there a company is not going to produce that particular widget.
RR,
That is the concept that many people find so difficult to accept. They think if they want it and they know several others who agree, there must be enough demand in the world to produce the item. Companies that think that way go out of business.
B.B.
That got my attention!
Mr. Gaylord:
I may be way over my head on this, but isn’t this just the type of situation which creates niche markets and micromarketing? It seems to me that where a small but specific group wants a product that’s not being addressed by other larger firms, smaller more specialized companies will develop products to fill the niche. What is your historical take on niche or micromarketing in the air gun community?
Respectfully submitted,
William Schooley
Rifle Coach
Venture Crew 357
Chelsea, MI
William,
I think you just nominated a report for next week. My head exploded when I read your comment.
B.B.
My interest is definitely piqued can you do the report on Monday?
BB,
I’m with Coduece. Please expound upon this while it is still fresh on your mind.
RR,
I will. This is such an exciting subject!
B.B.
B.B.,
I too look forwards to it. I fancy myself an “inventor” of sorts,..LOL, but most often just discuss and toss out ideas right here.
The key, it would seem, is to be able to go from a “me”, to a person that actually brings a new idea to market,… successfully, I might add.
Chris
William,
I can think of a couple who filled such a niche in the airgun community. One is Gary Barnes and another is Dennis Quackenbush. These gentlemen were building big bore air rifles long before the major players realized there was a huge market for them.
Let’s not forget Lloyd Sykes.
Which reminds me of the enormous niche market and niche marketers that have been hatched with the introduction of the Benjamin Discovery. Aftermarket trigger mods, barrel bands, wood and synthetic stocks, regulators (like the Lane), barrels (Lothar Walther apparently being the most popular), etc.
Amazing that a cottage industry sprung up around one gun. Seems a lesson here for inexpensive guns that allow those owners to easily make significant modifications is in demand. Seems the longer I’m around this hobby it appears that the majority of airgun owners prefer to work on their guns rather than shoot them. Maybe not. Maybe the “tinkerers” just post more on blogs than the “shooters”?
Kevin,
There is a lot of truth to what you said. As a “moderate modder”, I enjoy the sharing of information and getting something basic to really perform. If that can be done with little to no cost, then all the better. I do have my limits on time and money invested though. There is almost too much information to sift through and make sense of. If you look far enough back on some threads, some ideas that were “all that” at the time, were later debunked or improved upon. Cool stuff.
BB,
That is a pretty innovative sight system. It would be especially nice if the front rotating sight locks up good enough that you would not have to readjust the rear peep/notch.
RR,
I never tested it that way, but I think it probably does do that. At least to the level of accuracy the T&C can offer.
B.B.
Was thinking about the prices quoted for the rifles back in the 50’s. Considering the hourly wages back then and the wages these days I can see how $20 can map to $300-$400 now.
Twenty bucks for a 101 – WOW!!! I pay about that for a can of .22 caliber pellets!
OH to grab a couple hundred dollars, jump in a time machine and go on a shopping spree. Hey, if I could do that I would invite you along RidgeRunner 🙂
Happy Friday all!!
Hank
Hank,
Only if we go back far enough so that I could buy a brand new Giradonni.
BB—-Please explain the sentence—–“as you know the strike of the round——“. Does that mean that you can use the front sight to adjust the windage ? Is there a stop to make sure that the front sight is always in the same position when you rotate it back into the town position ?——–Ed
Zimbabweed,
I think BB was speaking in general terms. Most guns that have adjustable sights, now days, have them at the rear. If you want the point of impact (POI) to shift left you move the rear notch left.To move POI right you move the notch right. You raise the notch to gain range ( higher POI ) and lower it for close work ( lower POI ). But not all guns have rear adjustments or the adjustments are divided between the front and rear, the rear for elevation and the front for windage. Any time the front sight is the moving component you have to reverse your thinking, since most of your guns are probably rear adjustable. I you want a shot to go higher you must LOWER the front sight. That’s done here by rotating the taller sight out of the way. On some guns you have to ( OUCH! ) file down the sight to get it where you want it. ( I find myself doing this with BB pistols all the time. )
I have also seen guns that have a pin for a front sight and it can be pulled out or pushed in more to change elevation. If windage is adjusted at the front, it’s usually done by Drifting or sliding the sight in a dove tail. I don’t see how a dove tail could be employed in the photos he posted so I doubt that the windage adjusts at the front.
Ed,
You not only CAN use the front sight to adjust for windage, many guns are built that way. The Finnish Mosin Nagant and the Swiss K31 are two I can think of.
B.B.
BB—–There is a similar story regarding the Remington 513S rifle. Remington used the same receiver and trigger for several .22 cal rifles. The 513 target rifle and several 5— rifles. A single shot, a magazine loader ( used the same 7 round magazine as the 513, 521 , 513 S rifles) and a tubular magazine. The 513S was a sporter version of the target 513 and had a matchmaster barrel. It was the most expensive rifle in the 5— series ( except for the 513 target rifle. Less than 2000 were made and it is a rare, hard to find rifle today. It is considered second to the Winchester 52 sporter. When I take my 513S to gun shows, dealers often say ” I have been in this business for —-years, and this is the first one that I have ever seen.” Since Remington customers had a plethora of less expensive 5— series rifles to choose from, very few 513S rifles were made and sold. —–Ed PS the 521 was a junior target rifle.
Ed,
Wow! Now I have learned something! Thanks!
B.B.
I had a Remington 581 S. It was a stripped down version of the 541 T. It was a cheaper bolt that also had a 7 shot clip and a single shot adapter. It had 3 or so locking lugs on the bolt. For as cheap as it looked (compared to the 541 T) I out shot several tricked out Ruger target 10/22s. The trigger on it was so sweet.
Doc
B.B.,
I wonder, with the shorter front sight selected, at what farther distance does the pellet land in the same place on the target as it would at a particular distance with the taller sight selected? In other words, if it is sighted in with the taller sight at 10 yards, but then the shorter sight is selected, how much farther must the target be for the pellet’s point of impact to be the same?
Michael
Michael,
Those two front posts look really different in height. More than most rear sights would ever adjust, so do you think It was more of a marketing ploy on a low powered gun like this, than an actual useful feature. They did build the name of the gun around it, after all, the clever boys !
Michael,
I guess I should have tested that but I didn’t.
B.B.
B.B.,
The more i think about it, the more I realize that would be an extremely difficult thing to test. Other than trajectory formulas, what would a guy do?
Shoot it at 10 yards with the tall sight, switch for the rest of the test to the short sight. Then go to 30 yards, 50 yards, 65 yards, 75 yards, 80 yards, etc. until the pellets start hitting the target at the same height? That is a LOT of walking back and forth. And the height of the target would need to be carefully set at the right height each time. It would be less difficult if two people worked together, one at the shooting bench and the other moving the target,, but still.
Michael
B.B.,
Thank you for yet another very interesting report. You keep presenting air guns I had no idea existed. I have no doubt that many a good or excellent product failed only because of price. As you have mentioned more than once, a manufacturer must invest heavily to create and get a product like quality air rifles to market, yet it is the market that decides whether the product is a success.
I am linking to a video. This made me go WOW! I want to shoot as well as this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyYoGIwtdg8
~ken
BB—Halfstep—-My question was not clear enough. I want to know if this rifle (Crosman town & country ) was designed to have windage adjustments in the front sight. I have seen many guns with fixed sights that have had the front sight bent to adjust for windage ( including the Daisy 100? that I bought for my son in 1972). After I replaced the open sight with a simple , homemade peep sight, I had to bend the front sight to zero it. BB—You may remember that I replaced the Gletcher non adjustable front sight ( MN 1944) with one from a real Russian 1944. It took a lot of work, but it was worth it. ——–Ed
Ed,
No. The T&C front sight is not adjustable for windage.
B.B.
BB,
Does the rear adjust for windage and if so, by what mechanism?
Halfstep,
Yes. Unscrew the rear peep disk and slide it sideways in a slot cur in the post it’s mounted to. It works just like the elevation.
B.B.
Doc Holiday——The Remington 540 through 580 series were made on a version of the 788 rifles. They had rear multiple locking lugs and a very fast locktime. Their magazines ( 5 and 10 round )were made of plastic and were the source of most if not all of the complaints re these rifles. The 540,s had a floating firing pin and the front of the bolt was beveled for gas release ( in case of a ruptured cartridge ). The 541,s had a retraction spring added to the firing pin and the bevel was eliminated. I have had several of these rifles. I still have a 540 target rifle. During the 30 @ years that I shot smallbore, it was the only rifle that allowed me to clean the offhand target, about once in every 4 or 5 matches. My other target rifles were several Win M 52,s, a Rem. 37, an Anshutz and a Springfield M2. I also have 2 541,s. I use the sporter barrel version in my clubs sporter rifle matches, and silhouette matches. Although these rifles are very accurate, they cannot compare to the quality of the wood. metal and workmanship of some of the earlier Remington .22 rifles.——Ed
Does the tall post go with the notch and the short post with peep?
Rk,
No. Both front sights work with both rear sights.
B.B.
B.B.,
That means testing for the Point Impact with the front and rear sights will be more complicated. Rear peep to front tall blade and short blade. Rear notch to front tall and short blade. That’s four combinations. I think this calls for the help of something like Chairgun to help predict the trajectory of the which combination will hit where in the farther distance. Otherwise that test may take days to get the results.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
But — since I no longer have access to this rifle, that test will never happen.
B.B.
B.B.,
Escaped my mind that this was really historical.
Siraniko
Siraniko,
That’s okay. You were drawn in — the very definition of engaging. 😉
B.B.
B.B.,
I’m that deep in the rabbit hole.
Siraniko
Just some FYI,.. It seems that R Arms Innovation (R.A.I.) went to selling through dealers,.. other than direct. Prices look the same, at least on the site. I discovered this while doing research on the 2240KT that HiveSeeker has been doing. For anyone not familiar with RAI, they sell stocks and adapters that allow the use of AR15 parts (6 position stock, for grips and grips among other things). I have pretty much the full kit on my .25 M-rod.
(fore) grips,… not,.. (for) grips. Yup,.. I know better. 🙁
Chris
Here’s a 1720T that PA sells with the RAI adapter and AR stock.
My 1720T was Dave’s test bed for the first adapter he made that you could still adjust the striker spring and stroke. His first ones for the 1720T you couldn’t adjust those things. And my 1720T was the first he made for them too.
He started the adapter’s and business by making one for his young son to shoot his .22 Marauder pistol he had at the time. The normal 1399 stock was too long of legnth of pull. But also what came about was you could off set and cant the butt stock to get a custom fit for your line off sight and hold. You know your RAI stock doesn’t do that on your Marauder.
But here’s the 1720T PA sells with Dave’s stuff. And this is with the gun case which makes it more. So it can be got cheaper. Don’t know why PA offers it with the case. Probably turns people off.
/product/crosman-1720t-tactical-combo?m=3510
GF1,
Yea,.. I knew that you 2 had some history together. My M-rod (does) have that 360 degree adapter and I love it. For somebody doing a AR butt stock, I highly recommend it.
On the 2240KT modded to HPA,.. I have been doing my homework and the deeper I dug,.. the more I realized that I was building a Maximus. So then I had to ask myself,.. why? Of course I dug into mods that pushed the fps.. 2K and 3K mods, different valves or valve components, etc., etc.. 800 fps is possible, some even got 900. Some mods are not even available any more. Shot count, added HiPac extensions,.. the options are endless.
I would be ahead to start with a Maximus , pull the stock and add a pistol grip and RAI kit at the rear (or) 1399 stock. I think I remember you saying that could be done, but (I do not remember) what would get a pistol grip on the bottom of the action. A 1399 stock could be used at that point. (Then, what is done at the front for any type of forearm?) I am not looking to do a full RAI kit on the bottom.
If you have any ideas on doing something like that, I would be interested in hearing them. I would like a more vertical grip if that can be done to a Maximus and of course rear would be the RAI 360 with a 6 position stock.
Then,.. what I have I done?,.. created a “Mini-Me” of the .25 M-rod? So yea,.. you could say that I am still “waffling about” some. 😉
Chris
Yep on the Maximus. If you got a Maximus why build a 2400 or a 2240. But on the other hand if you already have a 2400 or 2240 then you have the base gun to mod like add the Maximus barrel and convert to HPA.
And don’t think you were reading yet. But Dave made the first AR butt stock adapter for my .25 Marauder. It also had the first double tube air resivoir made by Lloyd Sikes. I also had a 1720T trigger assembly on that Marauder. It was a Gen 1 Marauder. The Gen 2 Marauders changed trigger mounting location so you can’t use the 1720T or 2240 or 1322/77 trigger assembly anymore. And that’s how Dave then came up with the set up you have on your .25 Marauder.
Here is how I have my gun as of yesterday. I put it back this way because now with the lighter striker spring I can set the trigger pull very very light now.
Another thought that came to mind while reviewing HiveSeeker’s article,.. for those of you with single shots and detest picking a new pellet out of a tin or loose ones in your pocket,…. take a piece of firm foam, the P.A. pellet foam would work,… cut a piece that will fit/jam between the bottom of the scope and the scope rail, poke some holes and insert pellets head first. I have the Maximus set up that way and have 3 pellets at the ready at all times. Perfect for a “grab and go” when you spot a pesky squirrel.
Chris
I been doing more experimenting with my Maximus with the regulator.
Put it this way. A lot more experimenting. Found a good combination. And it relates to the good ole dragstrip days. Slow down to go faster.
First off remember when I said to keep the Maximus fill gauge if you do a internal regulator in it. 100% keep the Maximus gauge. It’s a very important tuning tool when your setting up your Maximus.
I’m not going to go into detail about how many times I depressurized my Maximus when I was tunning the regulator. But I found that set at around 900psi was the best setting for velocity, accuracy and shot count. But there was more to it than that.
That’s where the slow down to go fast part came about. I was actually loosing shot count because of the heavy striker spring the Maximus has. Believe it or not I put a 1322 striker spring in the gun. Now it’s much easier to cock. Now vibration of the shot cycle from the heavy Maximus spring. I’m sure I was getting striker bounce.
I only have 2 fills tonight on the gun this way. But got 60 shots once at 2200 psi and 63 the next fill. And those were the normal accurate shots that I get with the gun.
The gun was definitely getting more air to the barrel than what was needed. And the noise cycle was shortened. There was no prolonged noise after the shot was fired. Just a pfftt of air sound.
Oh and I’m shooting down now with no poi change right to when it falls offf the regulator.
Took some time. But very happy with the regulator now.
GF1
The relationship of spring force on the valve, working with the pressure of the reservoir to provide power regulation is fascinating to me. Whether this was discovered by chance or knowingly designed is probably lost to time, but either way it was a stroke of genius in my book.
Coduece
Yep agree. Cool stuff.
Chris
This is suppose to say.
“Now vibration of the shot cycle from the heavy Maximus spring. I’m sure I was getting striker bounce.”
Now (no) vibration of the shot cycle from the heavy Maximus spring. I’m sure I was getting striker bounce too before the 1322 striker spring
GF1,
Very, very nice! 🙂 You Da’ Man! Pending any new acquisition,.. the regulator definitely sounds good. I am very curious to know what FPS you getting at a 900 reg. setting + the 1322 spring. Can you do a chrony? My .22 Maximus is doing 824 fps and that was at shot 12 on a 2000 fill. It rose to that point and then headed the other way. Fill was a 1750 at shot 12. I can see where a reg. would be a big plus. I am not so sure about setting it at 900 though. Yea,.. you got a high shot count, but at what cost to the fps?
At a 900 fill mine was doing 692 fps and that was on shot 30 of a 2000 fill with 15.89’s. I am definitely wanting to hear more on what you think and what your fps is at a 900 reg. setting. Time to dust off that chrony. 😉
Looking again, I see that I had a high of 824 and a low of 692,.. a 132 spread,… in 30 shots and was still able to keep 30 shots in 1″ at 50 yards. I imagine that a reg. would be nice and could tighten the group. Interesting. I am not looking to get 60 shots like you. I suppose that is nice for you now that you are hand pumping though. I would settle for a super level fps 30 shots.
Chris
Going out to chrony in a bit. I’ll do about 4 shots at the full fill of 3000 psi. Then 4 shots in the middle of the fill then I’ll do 4 more shots at the end right before it falls off the regulator.
I’m betting it’s going to be in the mid 700’s though in velocity. The reason I say is because it did not drop on POI. I had to add a couple clicks of right on the scope though but nothing on elevation.
And the other thing is it still spins my spinners the same.
The whole reason it’s working that way. Is now with the low 900 psi regulator setting the valve doesn’t need to be hit as hard. So that’s why the lighter striker spring now.
It’s pretty much just like the Marauder when you tune for a high fill or a low fill. You adjust the striker spring heavier or lighter. And of course the striker stroke. But the same principal applies by changing to a heavier or lighter spring.
You could still your Marauder up to use a full fill of 2000 psi and still get the velocity and shot count. That’s what’s cool about the Marauders.
Going out now so I will give the update on the velocity in a bit.
Chris
Here is the way the chrony went.
First 4 shots averaged 760 fps.
In the middle of the shot string or fill pressure the 4 shots averaged 753 fps.
And the last 4 shots before it fell off the regulator averaged 758 fps.
So the pressure with the regulator seems to be very consistent from what the velocity showed with the chrony. And that was shot 64 before it fell off the regulator. And I was able to get 5 more shots after it came off the regulator before POI dropped. So that tells me also that I have the regulator set just right. The lowest pressure possible to still get good velocity and the most shot count because the whole volume of the air in the resivoir will be used to produce a good shot.
Well that’s that. Now do you want to know how many times I had to depressurize the gun to take the regulator out to adjust it and put it back together and fill it back up. I’ll make it simple. Too many times! 🙂
GF1,
That is some VERY impressive results! Very tight spread, considering 60 shots. I’ll bet you got some Maximus and Discovery people taking interest. I will check into ordering one here in a few. Huma-Air for those that missed it. Thanks for doing all of the hard work / home work. That Maximus ought to be more deadly than ever before!
Nice Job! 🙂 X10
Chris
But remember. My gun didn’t start getting a good shot count till I started dropping the regulator pressure and filling to 2500 psi. Then finally 3000 psi.
My first string I got almost 50 shots on that first time after I installed the regulator. But it never repeated that shot count anymore. I was averaging around 38-42 shots. That was with the regulator set at 1100 psi. So basically I could still get about 6 or so shots under 1100 psi. So that was part of the 38 shots.
The big improvement came with the 1322 striker spring and the regulator set at 900 psi. That’s when the whole amount of air in the tube could be used.
That’s something that regulator instructions tell you is to go to a lighter striker spring. But the Huma regulator instructions did not say that if I remember right.
The main thing is that don’t think you can just throw the regulator in your gun and shoot. You (will) have to do some tunning to get it right.
GF1,
So you are doing 900 on the reg. and a 3000 fill and getting 60 shots with a 7 fps spread?
I just ordered mine. It did not give the U.S. Dollar cost, but you said 115, I think? How did it come? UPS/FedEx/mail box? How long did it take?
I look forwards to getting it and putting it in. I am surprised that you did not pull out the chrony at the start. I will probably do a 1100 on the reg. and see what I get. If I get 20-30 shots that are super tight on the fps spread I will call it good. If more, then better. I do not want to lose fps. No doubt I will have some more questions.
I did get some components together for a moderator. It should work great. Slight tweakage of some parts required. I will send you pics as things progress.
Again,… nice job.
Chris
Yep on the regulator and fill pressure and don’t forget the 1322 striker spring. That’s my setup.
And I thought I emailed you a link of where I got mine from. I did not order direct from the Huma website. The $115 plus shipping was from the place in Arizona that I ordered from. And by the way i got mine in 3 days. That was by USPS and delivered to my mailbox.
And thanks.
Gf1,
Yes you did,.. and I did not. Oh well, it get’s here when it gets here. Maybe they will forward the order to the U.S.. Duh on my part. 🙁
Chris
Maybe you can cancel the order and get it from the other place here in the US?
GF1,…. see bottom.
ChrisUSA—-Your idea reminds me of the cartridge holders that were attached to millitary single shot breech loading rifles in the 1890,s- early 1900,s. This was in response to the introduction of repeating , magazine rifles. It was less expensive than re-arming with repeating rifles. It was a stop-gap method of increasing the rate of fire to extend the service life of the single shot rifles. ——-Ed
GF1,
I sent them an e-mail and asked if they could do a transfer. We’ll see. No big deal either way. I see they had Bellville washer kits and reseal kits too. I did not get either of those, but it is good to know that they are available.
Chris
Yep and let me know what they say about your order.
We just had a thunderstorm move through. It’s unseasonably warm today. It’s 80° right now. Usually it’s in the upper 50’s right now.
Well it also hailed. They are from dime and quarter size up to some around golf ball size.
Well you know what I’m doing right now. Yep they explode nice when you hit them with a air gun. 🙂
GF1,
Sounds fun,.. except for the hail. I have seen that punch holes in siding and break wind shields. Order done from that place out west. A bit of trouble in that the UK order threw a hold on it, which made the other a no go. Did some calls and all is good. UGHH! I look forward to getting it.
I think that your results are B.B. Blog worthy,.. in my opinion. Then again,.. B.B. may say,.. “Yawn,… been there, done that”,….? 😉
Weather is lousy here, but 64 F now.
Chris
Ok that’s good you got your regulator order under control.
And yep about hail damage. We had a real bad one at the other house I lived at. Some were as big as a hard ball. On poked through the plastic side trays on my BBQ grill and poked a hole through a frisbee that was laying on the ground. Alot of damage around that area when it happened. Some houses had broken wood in the roofs and decks had broken wood. And when the hail hit the ground that was wet from the rain. Water would splash 5′ in the air. It looked like mortor rounds hitting every where.
And I’m pretty sure BB has done reports on regulators. But can’t remember any off the top of my head right now. Anyway first internal air gun regulator for me. Never was worried about shot count before. The only reason I decided to do it was cause of hand pumping.
And Huma also has them for Marauders. If I still had my .25 Marauder I might just get one for it.
Tom, love your vintage airgun reviews and read this one on the T&C many times as I was trying to find one to buy. Well, this month I finally found one and grabbed it quickly. Your review is excellent but I think your rifle was a little worn. My bolt still fits firmly in the firing position with no leaking, and my Chrony numbers were much better, but as you noted not as stellar as some other Crosman rifles. I was using 14.3 grain Premiers.
pumps
6 588.
583.
579.
578.
582.
3. 445
4. 500
5. 552
7. 607
8. 631
One disagreement, the tall blade was intended to be used with the open sight and the lower rail with the peep. I switch back and forth and the point of impact is very close to the same point. Town is peep or target, Country is open for hunting? Thanks much for your articles. Steve