by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets.
This report covers:
- Five-shot groups
- Crosman Challenger PCP
- FWB-300S
- The final test
- Not done yet
- The results
You may recall that a few weeks ago I tried the Sig Match Ballistic Alloy target pellets in the Morini 162MI target pistol and they came out winners. I said at the time that I planned on conducting an exhaustive test to see if these lead-free pellets are really capable of competing at the world-class level. If they are, I promised to be their principal cheerleader.
Today will be the first test of these pellets. I will pit them against other world-class target pellets in airguns of pedigreed accuracy to gauge their relative performance. I don’t expect them to win every time, because no target pellet can do that, no matter how good it is. Different airguns will prefer one pellet over all others regardless of the quality of the respective pellets. We see that in every accuracy test I run, so why should this be any different?
What I do hope to discover is whether the Sig pellets can hold their own. Whether they are worth investigating for competitive shooters. At $35/500 they certainly aren’t for shooters on a budget. But when you find the most accurate pellet for a given target gun, the price is irrelevant. You’re in the game to win — not to save money.
I’m also not interested in what they can do at 50 yards or how big a hole they will blow in a rat if shot backwards. This pellet has one specific purpose and is too costly to play games with. It’s for 10-meter target shooting — period!
Today I will pit the Sig pellets against several world-class target pellets of known quality in three 10-meter rifles. We are looking for groups from the Sig pellets that are of similar size to the groups the premium lead pellets give in each of these rifles. They may not always be better, but are they close?
Five-shot groups
When I shoot 10-meter target guns I don’t shoot 10-shot groups. Five shots are all it takes to demonstrate the potential of a particular pellet in a certain airgun. I think you will see that in this report.
Crosman Challenger PCP
The first rifle I tested was the Crosman Challenger PCP. While this is an inexpensive youth 10-meter rifle, it is plenty accurate and I have used it in several comparison tests in the past. The Lothar Walther barrel is quite good and the trigger is acceptible — though far from the level of triggers found in today’s top 10-meter rifles. But the Challenger doesn’t cost $3000, either!
The first pellet I shot was the one I know is the best for this rifle — the H&N Finale Match Rifle with a 4.50mm head. Five pellets made a group that measures 0.24-inches between centers. This is a larger group than I expected, but as you can see it’s still nice and tight.
Five H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets went into 0.24-inches at 10 meters when shot from a Crosman Challenger PCP.
Now came the moment of truth. Could the Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellet keep pace? I fired 5 pellets into the target without looking through the spotting scope. When I went down to examine the target, I found 5 pellets had made a group that measures 0.167-inches! Wow! I was dancing in the street! Finally there is a lead-free target pellet that can be used in competition and give nothing away.
Five Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets made this 0.167-inch group at 10 meters, when shot in the Crosman Challenger.
Are these pellets more accurate than the H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets? We can’t tell from just these 2 targets. I have shot other groupss with the Challenger and this pellet that were smaller than the group the Sig pellets gave today. But that can also mean that we haven’t seen the best the Sig can do, either! The point is — Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets give nothing away to these world-class premium target pellets from H&N.
FWB-300S
Now it was time for the big guns — literally and figuratively. Though I don’t own a modern world-class PCP 10 meter target rifle, the FWB 300S is every bit as accurate. They were delivered with 0.04-0.06-inch five-shot test groups.
My FWB 300S is most accurate with RWS R10 Heavy pellets, but I seem to be out of them at present, so I substituted a JSB Match pellet that Pyramyd AIR doesn’t currently carry. If it hadn’t done well I would have tried the H&N Finale Match Rifle pellet that is almost as accurate as the R10. But I didn’t need to worry, because the JSB pellets did fine. Five of them went into 0.153-inches at 10 meters. That’s not the best I’ve ever done with this rifle, but it’s pretty darn good!
Five RWS R10 Match Heavy pellets from the FWB 300S went into 0.153-inches at 10 meters. I’ll take it!
Next I tried the Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellet. Five of them went into 0.19-inches at 10 meters. That’s larger than the previous group, but still in the ballpark.
Five Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets made this 0.19-inch group at 10 meters with the FWB 300S.
The final test
Okay — we have one case of the Sig pellets being the most accurate and one case where they were a close second. To broaden the test a little I brought out a veteran target rifle from the 1970s — the Walther LGV Olympia. This is not the same Walther LGV rifle that’s being sold today. Walther reused that model name a few years ago for a line of upscale sporting air rifles. The LGV Olympia was the last recoiling breakbarrel target rifle Walther made — just before they brought out the recoilless single-stroke LGR. And, I think you are about to see what everyone has said for decades about breakbarrel target rifles that recoil — in the right hands they can be just as accurate as recoilless rifles.
I shot the LGV off a sandbag rest just like the first two rifles. It fires so smooth that direct contact with the bag doesn’t hurt. When you see the results I think you’ll agree.
The first 5 shots were with the JSB Match pellets with which I was confident. But when I went downrange to change the target I saw a horrible 2-hole group! Three pellets grouped tight to the left and 2 went into another hole far to the right. The “group” measures 0.459-inches between centers and is more like what I expect to see from a Turkish or Chinese breakbarrel at this distance.
Wow! It doesn’t get much worse than this for a 10-meter rifle! Five shots made a huge 0.459-inch group!
Okay, I could not leave it at that, so after trying the Sig pellets I resolved to try the LGV with the H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets. Surely the LGV can do better than this! And, incidentally, I did not attempt to adjust the sights of the rifle to the center of the bull. That would need to be done if you plan to compete with the rifle, though.
The Sig pellets were up next. I’ll let the target speak for itself.
OMG!!! Five Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellets went into 0.098-inches at 10 meters, when shot from a vintage Walther LGV Olympia! I think this is the smallest 5-shot group I have ever reported in the 11 years I have been writing this blog.
This blog turned 11 years old on March 3rd. And this is the smallest 5-shot group I think I have ever reported. I wish Edith could have seen it! She knew how much I wanted to find a lead-free pellet to recommend to the thousands of coaches and shooters who ask me what’s out there.
Do I think I could do this again? Probably not — but who knows? The point is, I did it this time and I did it with a lead-free pellet in a recoiling breakbarrel target rifle. That addresses so many fundamental questions about airgun accuracy (Can a breakbarrel air rifle be accurate? Can a recoiling airgun be as accurate as a recoilless airgun? Can a lead-free pellet compete with world class target pellets?) that it belongs on a coffee cup! If I were Sig, that’s what I would do.
I promised if this Sig pellet turned out to be competitive with world-class target pellets I would become its principal cheerleader. I apologize to every reader who now needs to wash that image from their mind, but that’s what I intend to do. I’m looking for my pom-poms as you read this!
Not done yet
This test isn’t over just yet. I said I would try the LGV with the H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets to get the bad taste of the JSB Match pellet group out of our mouths. So that came next. Five Finale Match Rifle pellets went into a group that measures 0.161-inches between centers. That is satisfactory, and it completes today’s test for me.
Five H&N Finale Match Rifle pellets made this group at 10 meters that measures 0.161-inches between centers.
The results
Thus far the Sig Match Ballistic Alloy pellet appears to be fantastic. But I am not finished testing it. I plan to return and conduct a second similar test using 10-meter pistols. After that I may do a third test with sporting rifles. We’ll see how things go.
Yes, these pellets are expensive. Only buy them if you want to win.
WOW
B.B.
Nice shooting!!!! Wow.
What makes these pellets so accurate? Others have tried with alloy pellets just to fail, and fail miserably.
Is it a special material? Do they use the same dyes as the lead pellets? Can they make cheaper domed pellets?
I think a factory tour is in order….
When you said, “The “group” measures 0.459-inches between centers and is more like what I expect to see from a Turkish or Chinese breakbarrel at this distance.” Did you have the Hatsan 85 in mind?
Great Report!
-Y
Yogi,
I don’t know what makes these pellets so accurate, but if I were a marketeer at Sig I would respond, “We do!”
B.B.
Don’t knock the Chinese. My TF87 in .22 cal can put 5 shots in 0.34″ @ 10 yds using TF pointed pellets and 5 in 0.38″ @ 10 yds using Beeman Silver Bears. The first group was shot with the rifle scoped and the second with open sights.
Pete
Very nice indeed.
Congrats on the new personal best, and lead free to boot!
Yes, I know Edith would be dancing with you.
When you get to the sporting weapon test, please Try it in a .177 marauder.
You mentioned in an earlier blog you THOUGHT or suspected they were rebranded H&N pellets.
Hopefully they have hit on a magic formula and we can look for more lead free offerings.
45Bravo,
Someone on this blog said they were made by H&N. I just repeated what they said. That’s fine, because H&N is a world-class pellet maker.
B.B.
BB,
I think it’s a safe bet that these Sig pellets are made by H&N. All of the other Sig pellets have obvious H&N equivalents and the packaging is the same for these Match pellets. I also have a tin of the H&N Match Green pellets; the look the same as the Sigs and I have had very good accuracy from them in my IZH 46M.
Excellent shooting, by the way.
Paul in Liberty County
Ok BB I’m going say something your not going to want to hear. It does involve more work. Yes you said you don’t want to shoot the pellets backwards. And thank God for that. I just about got sick when I heard you say shoot a pellet backwards. I just felt my stomach churn again. But here’s the work part.
You know how yesterday when we was talking about trying the heavy, heavy pellets in the .177 Hatsan 85 to see if they might perform good. I don’t want it to sound like I’m bias to light weight pellets or alloy pellets. And I know you shot the Falcons in the 85 but they ain’t these Sig pellets that your so happy about today.
Soooo. You also said you didn’t want to do no 50 yard test. But you didn’t say anything about not wanting to do a 25 yard test. Yep I would like to ask you to shoot the Sig pellets in the 85 at 25 yards when you try out the heavy, heavy pellets in the 85 at 25 yards.
I know that’s not the intended purpose of the Sig pellets. But dog gone it if they just so happen to shoot good in the 85 maybe that could be a toy for the rich and famous air gun shooter. Ya know by the best pellet no matter what it costs if it works. There are people out there like that.
And ok I’ll quit joking. But seriously. The Sig pellet just might make more air guns accurate. Pricey, but hey. Accurate is accurate.
Never mind the range, there are places on this planet that do not allow shooting lead. An accurate lead-free pellet is a godsend to air gunners around those locations.
Mono
Yep that’s why I would I would like to see them shot in different distances with different guns.
GF1
At least you are not bugging me to do this with my FWB .
twotalon
TT
Read my response to Buldawg.
I just may get a tin to try myself. Got a bunch different .177 caliber pellet guns some even with smooth bores.
Speaking of smooth bores. I have got pretty decent groups out to 35 yards with a smooth bore shooting wadcutters.
And I’m not going to say my opinion of why I believe you mentioned your FWB. But I’m going to ask you why. And tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. 😉
GF1
Well, I have no inclination to shoot a low B.C. nerf pellet . Particularly in a good shooter .
I doubt if I even try wadcutters at all .
twotalon
TT
The pellet may end up being good in different guns and out at reasonable distances. You never know.
Time Will Tell.
GF1,
I might do a 25-yard test. But on season one of “American Airgunner” I demonstrated that a pellet that groups 5 in less than a quarter-inch at 10 meters will grow to over three inches at 35 yards. I do not want to tar this fine pellet with a brush it doesn’t deserve.
I will consider it.
B.B.
BB
Understand that.
But like today and other days. You were surprised at your results with these pellets and other things I’m sure. I know I sure have been surprised throughout time when I thought something was going to work out one way and ended up doing a 180 of what I thought would happen. Like I say you never know till you try.
So all I can do is ask if you will test them in different ways.
BD,
I don’t know the velocity in my 300S, but I do know my rifle is not as hot as yours. Maybe I’ll test it for you.
B.B.
BB
I did not think your 300 was shooting as fast as my two hot rodded ones are since I have purposely done that to get out to 55 yards with them. Actually me and GF1 have since I have four of them now , two I already had with one being hot rodded and one factory stock and then I got GF1’s two he had with one being hot rodded and one factory stock as well.
So I have two that shoot 8.44s at 545 to 550 fps which is likely where yours is at but I was just curious since the Sig pellets are only 5.25 grains as just how much faster the 300 shoots those light weight pellets.
BD
I’ve never seen a match/wadcutter pellet outperform a round nose pellet at 25 yards. Even in a powerful gun. I have seen the crosman premier hollowpoint pellet outperform other round nose pellets at 25 yards. This was a rare exception.
Nonetheless, finding a reasonably priced match/wadcutter style pellet that groups decently at 25 yards is beneficial if over penetration is a hunters concern. Otherwise it has proven a waste of my time (and pellets) in my experience for ultimate accuracy.
kevin
Kevin
Have to say that at 25 yards I have had equal results with wadcutters verses round nose pellets.
Matter of fact really out to 35 yards with wadcutters.
Now out past 35 yards then the wadcutters start getting iffy on performance.
And if I was wanting to know about a pellet that might open up new avenues for other airgunners out there. I would be testing them in more ways then one.
Why review a new gun and only tell about part of how it performs. The whole story is told so people can have a honest opinion about that gun. Well the same for these pellets is the way I see it.
Wadcutters equally accurate as domed pellets out to 35 yards?
Never been my experience in any airgun. Lucky you.
kevin
Kevin
I tend tend to be that way when I do stuff. 😉
But we will just have to wait and see what this pellet BB is testing will do.
Sounds like people doubt it’s performance to me. There ain’t nothing me or you can do about it but let the pellet speak for itself.
I’m interested in the results I will say that.
BB
I would like to second GF1 request to see if these Sig pellets can be accurate out to 25 yards in the MOBU as well.
Not that it matters except for my own curiosity but do you by chance know what the velocity of those Sigs in your 300s was by chance since my two modded 300s shoot 8.44s at 675 and 650 fps and 10,34s at 590 and 575 fps as well. The 7.87s shoot 727 and 707 also in the two high power guns I use for FT competition.
BD
BD
Yep I want to see what the Hatsan 85 will do with these also.
I’m sure like me that you have tryed things and was very happy that you did with the results you got.
And as I say. How in the world will you know if you don’t try. These pellets BB is reviewing today should be tryed in multiple types of guns and at different distances. But that’s just me and the way I look at things.
Kind of like that debounce mechanism we was talking about the other day. I think we went back and forth about that until you finally said you will make one and try it. So yes I’m waiting for you to convince me it will still work on a high powered air gun like our .25 Mrods. Not doubting. I just want somebody I know and trust making it and testing it.
So maybe I should buy a tin of these pellets and test them and report back my findings. You know that’s just how easy it will be for people to see about them theirselfs. Then we will get even more info about how they perform be it good or bad.
GF1
Yea I would to know if these will be accurate out to 25 yards as well since they are wadcutters it is a toss up in my opinion but since they are so light they may carry enough speed to still be good at that distance.
Definitely got to try things to see if it works or not and I will be making a Stationary Spring Guide for my 25 Mrod to see if it does work as it has been proven on the forum where it was developed that it improves shot count as well as efficiency of the fill. They are using them in all power levels of guns and have taken a 10 fpe 22 caliber QB 79 gun converted to HPA with a 13ci bottle and modified the gun to get 32 fpe with 18.13 JSBs on a 3000 psi fill and get 70 shots at that power level so I am certain it does work very well. There are several variations of the design to fit the different guns it is used in but all have the one thing in common in that the hammer is free floating in the tube after it is fired since the spring tension is restrained by the guide so that there is from .050″ to .125″ or more of free play between the spring and hammer in the uncocked position after being fired so the hammer cannot bounce against the valve poppet except the first strike when the trigger is pulled.
You will know how well it works in time and I can just about guarantee you will be installing one in your mrod ASAP.
I would like your finding on the Sig pellets if you do buy a tin.
BD
BD
Sure the mod does work. But your going to show me with yours this time. Right?
😉
And yep I do believe I will get some just to how the Sig pellets work. Hmm I wonder if they or soft or hard. Not crazy about hard pellets being shot out of my guns. That totally slipped my mind about these pellets.
GF1
Yep I am going to make one to install in the 25 instead of a regulator so I don’t lose any reservoir volume but get the tight spread and higher shot count that a regulator is known for in a PCP. so you will see just how well it works in the 25.
yea that’s one ting I have against alloy pellets is the hard metal does tend to add increased wear in the barrels. I know it still softer than the steel but I have first hand proof that the rifling will indeed wear out in a pellet gun barrel with use and time. My 1968 crosman 1400’s rifled barrel is proof as it has no rifling left in the barrel with the years of use and abuse it saw in my teenage years and early twenties. I cannot even begin to estimate how many pellets of various brands and metals it has digested but it is enough to wear out the rifling that’s for sure.
BD
BD
Don’t know about installing the debounce mechanism on my .25 Mrod ASAP. My Mrod is getting good velocity and shot coun nt for how I use it. Pretty satisfied with its performance actually.
But I will be watch ING to see what kind of situations pop up when you make and try it on your .25 Mrod. So keep me updated when you start.
GF1
Well we will just have to see if I can make you eat those words as I know your 25 is shooting real good now but if you are going to turn down up to another 10 shots at a 5 fps spread just because its another thing to have to install then so be it. All the reports of the various types being made and installed are nothing but superb results from it and there is really nothing to wear out or break and once its set its leave it alone and enjoy.
So once I do the tuning work all you will have to do is set and forget it and enjoy.
You will be kept up to date for sure and the final parts are on their way to me as we speak for the 25 to get it together provided the valve lines up correctly this time.
BD
BD76,
I really do admire your spirit to “tune”. There is a lot to learn and try. You seem to be on the cutting edge of trying what you have learned, No doubt,…. you have invested some serious time and some coin to get where you are at. If it was not for work,… I would be doing the exact same thing.
I wish you the very best of luck in making it all come together.
Chris
Chris,USA
I have been spending time at another forum learning a whole lot of new innovations for PCPs that are proving to be on the cutting edge of todays new age DIY modding.
I do have some coin in my guns but without them I would be left with to much time and nothing to occupy it which is not good for mental or physical health and its only money that I cannot take with me when its time so if I don’t enjoy it now, When? I got such a good deal on some of my guns it has allowed me to make them into one of a kind guns for just my tastes.
It will all come together in time which is what I have to much of right now and just trying to use it as best I can while I can still enjoy it all.
I do appreciate your support and encouragement of my efforts and recognizing how much work it actually takes to keep numerous projects going at the same time.
BD
BD
Well don’t know about eating my words. Here’s why on the .25 Mrod anyway. Maybe you can show me on another gun.
I do plan on mounting the 1720T trigger assembly I have on my gen 2 .25 Mrod. Of course after I drill some new holes and such to get it to mount to the Mrod tube in the right location. So I won’t have a stock on the Mrod anymore.
Then I plan on using one of Dave’s from RAI AR butt stock adapters on the gun.
Now here’s what is the problem with your anti bounce mod on the Mrod and Dave’s adapter. The bolt and nut that you will have sticking out the back of the end cap is also the threaded hole in the end cap that Dave uses to mount his adapter.
So one or the other. I haven’t really payed attention to that short stock set up that you have and how the AR butt stock attaches to the gun. Does it still use the Mrods end cap or does it go on his short stock assembly?
Anyway in my case it ain’t going to work for me because that’s how I will attach his adapter is to the end cap for the AR butt stock.
Let me know if the anti bounce mod will work with your short stock set up you got.
GF1
That’s what you are not seeing is there are many variations of the SSG in that there is one for the Mrod that is fully contained within the spring/hammer pocket with nothing sticking out of the gun at all. So the fact that you are going to a 1720t trigger grip assy with a AR stock has no bearing on having a SSG in the gun at all. The SSG that Wicked Air rifles sells is completely inside the end cap with nothing protruding out the gun which does require removal of the end cap for adjustment but once set to the desired tune it is forget it and enjoy.
My 25 has the exact same stock and swing away adapter with AR butt stock that BB put on his personal Mrod 25 he reported about here. On the RAI Teryx stock the AR butt stock threads into the Teryx stock not the end cap of the gun so that all remains completely factory.
Then with the swing away adapter it allows for access to the stroke and tension adjustments without any disassembly.
The SSG I am making will be compatible with any Mrod regardless of what configuration it is in as long as it still uses the factory end cap. The only issue you may have using the RAI butt stock attached to the end cap with the SSG is making sure the bolt that holds the butt stock to the end cap is not to long so that it would protrude into the spring pocket of the end cap as that would interfere with the rear of the SSG.
BD
BD
You will have to send me the link to that one because I don’t remember it for some reason.
And really not interested in changing my Mrod around right now. Got it where I want it and I know how it shoots. And is doing just fine for how I use it. If it messes up inside for some strange reason then I may consider the mod.
I just don’t want the down time and hassle of setting something up when its working perfectly now. Plus don’t have a lot of extra time to mess with stuff. I just grab my guns and shoot and know exactly how each one shoots. And that is only 3 guns now that I have narrowed down to.
The Tx in .177 the Talonn SS in .22 and the .25 Mrod. Those guns pretty well cover my different needs now. And of course I have the Discovery stock long barrel 1377 that is also a part of my pesting guns.
I don’t have time for down time or a change from how I know they work right now. I need to pick them up and shoot and know they will do their job.
Matter of fact I have held off even doing the 1720T trigger assembly mod on the Mrod because the combination is work so well.
I’ll just watch and see what you come up with. And watch you enjoy it on your gun. That will be good enough for me.
GHF1
Here is the one I will be coping as it is self contained inside the spring pocket and adjust without disassembly. I am not sure if the link will open correctly so will send to your email as well.
I will let you know how it works out and you can decide from there,
http://www.gatewaytoairguns.org/GTA/index.php?topic=102095.msg998889#msg998889
Look specifically at post 782 on page 40 for the version I will be coping to use in the Mrod as it shows a picture of the parts laid out but the order is not correct in that the o ring would be on the head end of the bolt and then it would be inserted thru the hammer from the valve end and then all other parts are correct for the sequence they would fit.
So when cocked the hammer compresses the spring inside the hammer with the bolt head sticking out from the front of hammer . The set screw in the side of the end cap is to prevent the nylock nut from turning inside the cap when adjusting spring preload but not so tight that the nut and bolt assy is still free to move forward and backwards in the spring pocket. There is a slot cut in the end of the bolt to turn the bolt with to increase spring preload or decrease it in the relaxed position with the set screw keeping the nylock nut from turning while adjusting the spring preload.. In the relaxed uncocked position the spring has about 1/2″ preload on it from the nylock nut on the end of the bolt and the whole assy is free to float with anywhere from .050″ free play up to 1/4″ free play in the uncocked or after fired position. When cocked it further compress the spring on the bolt since the front of the spring is resting inside the hammer pocket and then when fired the hammer travels forward from the spring pressure to strike the valve poppet but since the spring is captured on the stationary guide bolt once the spring preload is reached there is no more spring pressure being applied to the hammer to cause it to rebound back into the valve poppet after its initial strike so it just floats inside the cavity and eliminates any chance of a second strike or hammer bounce as it is known thereby greatly increasing shot count as well as efficiency of air used per shot.
We will see just how well it works and I will let you decide for yourself as to if its worth the effort or not.
BD
Thanks again!
BD
Ok will see how you do.
But already making way more power than out of the box with mine. I should say way, way, way more power than out of the box and actually way more usable shots than out of the box. And groups are unbelievable at that with the he JSB 33.95 grn pellets.
I already have a very small fps spread with 30 shots. And still only using 1000 psi of pressure spread.
When I shoot my Mrod its basically just to verify my holds are still good with my set up. So I might take 6 or so shots with it in a day of shooting with my other guns. If I take it out for biusness not for pleasure of verifying I hope that I only take one shot and make it count.
My .25 Mrod is more of a tool. And it works good for what I use it for.
And no I don’t really want to change it from where its at. It does what I want.
Now maybe if I was shooting feild target with a .177 Mrod where I need a bunch of shots to make it through a match. Well then I might consider that mod. I would for sure do that instead of a regulator.
But for what I have now. No it’s not something I need.
And it’s a shame you didn’t get to put some time on your .25 Mrod and see what it was all about before you tore it down. But like your trying to tell me. It wasn’t what you wanted out of it. Well that mod you just showed the link of is not what I want.
But it will be interesting to see what comes about when you finally get your gun together and try it.
GF1
Yea will just have to see when I get my 25 all together and tuned if it truly does what the reports all say it does and I understand that you have your 25 just the way you want it now so no problem if you don’t change anything.
I am just hoping it increases shot count without affecting power at all which from what I have read it does in fact do just that so we will see.
BD
BD
I believe it should work out good. And i want to hear your results.
And yep that’s the point I have been trying to make. I’m satisfied with mine right now. And that’s not to say that the mod could be something I (need) later if I really kick the power up even more on my .25.
Will have to see because I knew for a couple days now that I may be getting even busier with the pest control stuff. So that’s why I been hesitating to make any changes.
Well I got the call today that the town on the other side of where I live which is a small town and mostly out in the country. They want me now to help with the pest eliminating. Word of mouth more or less from the other city I do stuff for talked to them. So happy about that. But that’s part of why I’m keeping things as is.
GF1
I was not expecting you to rush into the mod as I am still keeping tabs on the thread about it also and am willing to be the Beta tester for it in the 25 to get the bugs and fine tuning of the design all worked out since there are at least four or five different designs for just the Mrods alone out there at this time. They all do the same basic thing with just different approaches to how it is designed to allow the hammer to free float after it strikes the valve stem.
But glad you are getting some pesting work and I need to do some checking around to see if there is any need here in my area for that as well. I can understand you not wanting to put a gun out of commission due to upgrades when its needed for work duties.
I will keep you informed as my progress evolves, still waiting for the final parts for the 25 to start on it as well.
BD
BD
Ok and I’ll text you with something in a minute.
GF1,
I wondered about that right away when you “jumped on board” as BB’s “liaison tester”. (hardness)
What,… wiiiiillllll,…. you,… do?
Chris USA
That is something that I don’t care for is a hard pellet.
Sooo maybe I won’t buy a tin of these pellets to try.
GF1,
“Soft”,…. I “believe”, 😉 ,is the words that B.B. used,….. “pillow soft” if I am remembering correctly……..?
C’mon,….. you have to have something lying about in your “arsenal” that you are willing to try ’em on,….ehh?
Chris USA
Well actually I do. I have another 1377 with the factory barrel on it with a steel breech and a scope. Got a 760 with a smooth bore and a M8 spring break barrel.
So yes those guns I would try the pellets in.
B.B.,
Wow is all I can say. Nice shooting and impressive results. Like with any high end pellet, I will ask that you (weigh and head sort) a batch to see if the SIG’s have it covered in those 2 departments as well. And since you will have them sorted already, maybe a repeat of a few of today’s test. Just an idea. It would be hard to beat today’s groupings, but would it not be just plain crazy that you could do better with some sorting?
Very nice, Chris
Chris,
Those are two reasonable requests and I will do them. I don’t want to take the luster off the diamond, though. I have seen remarkable things at 10 meters from pellets you wouldn’t think had anything to offer, so we are doing this only for edification. The holes in the target are the proof.
B.B.
B.B.,
Thank you,…. I look forward to the stats.. The can looks rather Pain Jane. If in fact they are sorted, that might justify the price. A quick look at the PA catalog only showed a few pellets in .177 that exceed, match or better the price point of the Sig’s. Well, many better it,…. but you know what I mean. A few were higher,…so they must think that they are charging the extra coin for some reason. Well,… other than trying to re-cover the R+D cost. No one can argue with the results however.
Very interesting. I imagine that you will be giving these a go in (any) .177 testing in the future. I mean really,….. right out the gate they did well,….. very well. I guess they deserve it for that reason alone.
One last suggestion,…… next target pic’s. of the SIG’s,…… you need to “creep” some Pom-Pom’s into the edge of the pics. No one here believes you really have any. 🙂
Chris
BB,
Nice shooting. It looks as if one alloy pellet is worth having. Who knows, I might even give them a try some time.
I think the main problem with the other alloy pellets is that they are being over powered. Perhaps it is time for another series of tests using the latest generation of alloy pellets and 10 meter rifles and pistols?
RR,
You know me. If the lead-free pellet is a wadcutter I will test it at 10 meters in a target gun. But domes have no business in such a test, because they cannot be used in that way.
B.B.
BB,
I was thinking more of in a test of their own at 10 and 25 yards. As I have stated, I always thought they were being over powered in most air rifles.
Surprising results from “mystery metal ” pellets .
twotalon
WARNING!
The use of high quality match pellets in Joe Commando CO2 action pistols will not produce the results pictured above.
/product/sig-sauer-match-ballistic-alloy-177-cal-5-25-grains-wadcutter-lead?p=1247
RR
Exactly. You would never know unless you try.
And that said. All I know is if I never tryed the JSB 33.95’s in my .25 Mrod that would of been a mistake on my part. They have definitely been a game changer in my long distance shooting with it. And no I don’t mean the Pepsi Challenge long distances. What is it now 600 and something yards? I’m talking long distances to me. Like a 150 yards so far.
But all true you never know what to expect from a gun and the ammo you choose till you try. Could be great results or a total failure.
It is one thing to try different pellets in an air rifle or pistol to determine what is the best ammo to use, however if you are expecting accuracy that is produced by a $3000+ air rifle or pistol out of something like that guy apparently was expecting…really?
OK, maybe if we give him the benefit of the doubt and that this is his first airgun, then we can overlook his obvious ignorance. And if that is indeed the case, he has bought into the marketeering ploy as so many newbies have and purchased the most expensive pellets with the same brand name as his Joe Commando CO2 action pistol thinking he would have incredible results, not realizing he would be lucky to not be shooting around street corners with it. Unfortunately more often than not, there is a painful learning curve involved in so many facets of life.
RR
Like I said in my comment below. I get a kick out of reading the reviews. Some pretty funny stuff people do right.
RR
And forgot. Wonder who that Burke guy is that commented to that guys review is.
I get the biggest kick out of reading the reviews on the PA products. But also good info too. Glad they state now if it is a verifeid buyer or not making the review also. Some people I guess just hope on and make reviews and never even touch the product.
Was suppose to say just (hop) on and make a review and never even touch the product.
Chris,
Hoping BB finds that head diameters and weights are consistent on these lead free pellets. I have found that H&N can get very low variation on their premium match lead pellets. Maybe this Sig pellet is the first alloy pellet to pass this quality test. We shall see.
Decksniper
Decksniper,
Well,…. head and weight control are 2 quality factors. In my thinking,…. it is just a matter of doing it,… (by the manufacturer). Be it by machine, hand or a combo of both. If I am guessing,… they will do well on sorting test.
Then again, die quality could be the ultimate answer. You get that right 100% and it would be like printing money.
B.B., WOW…what else can be said! Congrats on the group. Also, I don’t think they are that expensive (even for low volume plinking about) when compared to even my 22LR (rimfire). If you divide it down, that would make them $3.50 per box 50. I don’t know about you, but these day if you find 22LR for $3.50 a box, that isn’t a bad deal. And I plink with 22lr, so why not. I’m not talking about “wasting” or rapid fire. Thank again for this report. I’m hoping Alloy pellets will keep coming (one’s that shoot good) and at decent prices.
Doc
we are having complaints about lead from a few club members. we have a 10meter gallery in the club house
our trap is metal and we shoot meta targets little chickens pigs ect. we are looking for a lead free pellet that will work with this combination I tried gamo raptor and the ricocheted wildly any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
P.S. do you think lead free pellets can damage barrels?
THANKS
Paw,
These pellets are hollow and not as hard as the Gamo Raptors. And they are not nearly as hard as the steel in an airgun barrel, so no damage.
B.B.
That is exactly what I was wondering about.
How hard they are.
B.B.,
“hollow”,….. ????? Please explain. As in hollow in skirt,… as well as the head? That would be a first, yea? PA shows no bottom views. Slice one open with a razor knife if the head is hollow. I did it with the Pred. Metal Mags. in .22. It works well. Yea, it might be a bit mashed up, but it will show a cavity. Just another idea.
Next report is fine,…. as if these continue to do well,… you will be “running them through the ringer” for a long time to come anyways.
Chris USA
Look at the third picture when you veiw the PA product page for the Sig pellets.
If you look in the picture and look at the pellets in the tin. It looks as if the hole on the back of the pellet goes all the way up inside the head of the pellet.
That could be stabilizing the pellet real good as it leaves the barrel.
GF1,
Did it. Yep,… there is definitely a deeper “inner cone” of space. Perhaps they have played (very seriously) with the balance factor as well?
As for your suggestion of testing at 25-35…….. maybe better that other flats at those distances,.. but still,… they are not really made for that.
I see the next thing is dome alloys from SIG. IF,… they have played with alloys enough and balance enough, they might be onto something. This may be the first step. Yes, they already offer some alloys, but perhaps there is something different here? And really,…. if one were to try and perfect an alloy pellet,…. a 10 meter would be the logical first choice. Like you though,… I am always ready to give something new a go for the most part.
No doubt,.. as I said,…. I am sure B.B. will run these puppies “through the ringer” over the next few months.
Best of all,…. we (all) have a front row seat! 😉
Chris USA
Now why did you say that the flat nose pellets weren’t made for those distances? Who told you that? Or should I say have you ever tryed any?
And I will add this very strongly. I use my smooth bore 760 and my modded long barrel 1377 for pesting. I do make shots out to 35 yards with wadcutters at birds and mice. And I do hit pretty much every shot I make. The routine testing and shooting is how I know what to expect. And the reason is that I do the testing is because when I get there to take care of that pest it’s usually in a location that I can’t chance messing up. People’s property for instance.
So don’t say something ain’t suppose to be used for something unless you try and know yourself. Sorry but I do take alot of time to make sure I know what my stuff is doing.
GF1,
You are right. I have not tried them. The comment was intended as a general consensus of opinion and track record of flat nose pellets in general, by others. Yes, all things can be pushed more and their limits stretched beyond what is generally accepted. You have taken the time and effort to find out, and,.. you know what those limits are with a particular gun with a particular flat nose pellet.
That is one reason that you would be a good one to do testing on these and see just what they will do further out. Over and above, outside the box so to speak.
I was not slighting your experience in anyway. And yes,… when you post results of something,… there is no question that you have done your home work.
Chris USA
Didn’t take it like it was directed towards me.
What comes to my mind is people tend to start to believe what is said on the internet. It kind of connects with like what RidgeRunner said about that guys review on a PA product. Or people will say they don’t like the way a guns trigger feels. Then you ask them if they have one. And they don’t. So how and the heck could they know what that trigger feels like and they even try to compare it to another guns trigger. And that list of that kind of stuff goes on that I can remember throughout time even here on this blog.
So just because you hear something is suppose to be one way or another. You need to use your better judgment if it could actually work out a different way than said.
My dad always told me never say never till you try for yourself and see. And I found through time how true that statement is.
And yep I answered you above that there is a few guns I could try the Sig pellets in. It would be a good test because I know how they preform with wadcutters right now. So I will probably order a tin and see. That way I will know if they are harder than what I like also.
GF1,
Well, for pushing the limits,….. you da man! It would be a good addition to B.B.’s testing without putting B.B. through the extra work. He “might” just have a “full plate” as it is,.. already.
I look forward to your testing,…. should you proceed. (no pressure) 😉
Chris USA
I think I’m going to place a order this weekend before the sale ends Monday.
So I will order a tin if I place the order and will for sure let you know how it goes.
Probably will email you the results. From reading BB’s responses I don’t think he wants to take something from these pellets that might not promote them for their intended use. So that way my results won’t have no influence on thoughts about the pellet.
But notice what’s on the lid on the tin of pellets. A crow a rat and a sqerrial. Oh and also a can. So maybe Sig sees these pellets as more than just a 10m pellet.
Anyway I will let you know how they do at some point in time.
GF1,
Yup on the can. HN? I think all the regulars here know that we can take you at your word on results. Yea,… they may not recommend flat nose for 25-35 yds., but hey,… like you already know,… some will do it. Plus, it saves B.B. the testing.
Testing like that,…. is what it is,….. going beyond the normal or expected. For sure,… it would not be the first time that we have discussed something WAY outside the “normal”.
Besides pushing the limits,…. you could do some 10 meter testing to see if you can back up B.B.’s testing. Please note,… I said 10,… not 100! 😉 (Mr. Longshot)
Either way,…. looking forward to your results should/when you decide to do it.
Who knows?,…. you may be the next one waving the Pom-Poms?
Chris USA
Well I do have two teenage daughters.
Maybe I can send BB some pom-poms.
Chris USA
Oh yes I think they something figured out with the balance of the pellet in regards to it being hollow. Also the way the air stabilizes the pellet as it leaves the barrel.
I would not even politely throw those people out that are complaining about lead. what next a noise complaint. I fear this push to go to alloy is a back door way by the antis to make shooting more and more expensive. you can shoot pellets made out of wood for all I care but banning lead is a real bad way to go
Mildot52,
Interesting take on the topic. For 10 meters (and) they shoot better (and) they are more environmental friendly, what is your gripe? The price? I agree. That aside, I like the (options),…. including lead!
Nice shooting. It is amazing how much fun can come out of an airgun range.
As for the virtues of testing with iron sights, they are certainly more reliable. But they generally can’t compare to the accuracy you can achieve with a scope when it works, which it should most of the time.
Matt61
Matt61
I see a new blog appearing in the future or maybe it’s one from the past. My batterys need charged on my crystal ball. So been giving me unclear results. Think I need to test some new battery’s out for it.
Anyway that would be a good blog. A shoot off between open sights, a red dot sight and a scope at let’s say a reasonable distance of 35 yards from one gun. A pcp, springer or a pump. I don’t care.
I got a idea already of what the results will be. What do you think will happen? Which sight device do you think will shoot the best?
Might as well include a laser. I had good groups with a cheap laser on my 1377.
Don
True.
I’,m fairly new to air gunning and have just started testing pellets in my guns. I have not come across the answer for this, so I will ask it here. What materials do the companies test their pellets in? When they come up with a new design, is it in ballistics gel, clay, or is it all computer graphics now?
Nomadgd,
I’m not aware they test them “in” anything. They test accuracy and velocity. Maybe the little ones like Predator test performance in a medium, but I have’t heard of tyhe big guys doing iot.
B.B.