by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Daisy Number 12, Model 29 BB gun: Part 1
Daisy Number 12 Model 20 is a vintage BB gun.
This report covers:
- Preparation
- Daisy BBs
- Air Venturi BBs
- Hornady Black Diamond BBs
- Shooting to the left?
- Accuracy
- No joy
- 4.4 mm lead balls
- Conclusion
Today we will look at both the accuracy and power of the Daisy Model 12 Number 29 BB gun you all seemed to enjoy. Let’s get to it
Preparation
This vintage BB gun has a leather plunger (piston seal), so I made sure it was well oiled before I started the velocity test. I had soaked the plunger in oil for several weeks before this test.
Daisy BBs
First up were Daisy Premium Grade BBs. They averaged 307 f.p.s. through the chronograph. The low was 299 f.p.s and the high was 327 f.p.s., so the total spread was 28 f.p.s. That’s pretty fast for a conventional spring-powered BB gun by today’s standards. I wasn’t expecting much over 250 f.p.s..
I also checked to see if the BB stayed in the bore when it was tipped down, because this single shot is loaded through the muzzle. There is no magnet inside to hold the BB, yet not one BB fell out.
Air Venturi copper-plated steel BBs
Next up were Air Venturi copper-plated steel BBs. When the first shot came out at 341 f.p.s. I thought I was onto something. But that was also the fastest shot of the series. These BBs averaged 314 f.p.s for 10 shots. The low was 305 f.p.s and the high was that 341 f.p.s. shot. There was a second shot at 330 f,.p.s. and the rest were all 313 f.p.s and slower.
The low was 305 f.p.s, and the high was 341 f.p.s. The velocity spread for Air Venturi BBs was 36 f.p.s.
Hornady Black Diamond BBs
Hornady Black Diamond BBs were the last BBs I tested. They averaged 313 f.p.s. with a low of 291 f.p.s. and a high of 341 f.p.s. The spread was 50 f.p.s., which seems excessive.
Shooting to the left?
One thing I could not overlook during the velocity testing is the fact that the gun was often shooting to the left –as much as two inches to the left in just three feet of distance. One time the BB missed the rear skyscreen because it had gone too far to the left. I wondered what this would do for accuracy, and I was about to find out.
I have seen this tendency for a round ball to curve in flight with airsoft guns, but this is the first time I’ve seen it with a BB gun. I could not see the BB in flight, of course, but the holes some of the BBs made in the backer board that covered the trap were to the left of where they should have been. With airsoft you adjust the Hop Up to correct this situation, but of course there is no Hop Up on a BB gun. Also, since the shots weren’t consistently going left there was no way to know when to do it or not. That left me with some trepidation about the accuracy of the gun.
Accuracy
I set up for the accuracy test at 5 meters (16 feet 4 inches) with the same three BBs. I shot sitting with the BB gun rested on the UTG monopod. This is the same way I test all BB guns. The first BB tested was the Daisy. After three shots I could not see any holes in the target, so I walked up and examined it at closely. Nope. No holes. The last shot missed the target trap altogether and hit the backer board before ricocheting around the room. That’s when I decided to stop shooting.
I moved my firing position up to 10 feet from the target and shot again. This time the BB hit paper three inches to the left and 1.5-inches above the aim point. The second shot landed within an inch of the first one and shot three opened the group to 2.5 inches. That was it for that BB.
I decided not to try the other BBs, because they would probably do just as bad as the Daisy. Instead, I brought out the big guns — the Daisy Avanti Precision Ground Shot. I didn’t want to use them because they are more accurate — I just hoped they would be larger and might fit the bore better.
No joy
But they didn’t. Even from just 10 feet the first three Precision Ground Shot went into 2 inches and I stopped the test right there. This is one of those BB guns that just throws the BBs wherever it pleases. You can’t bend the sights or hold off because you never know when the gun is going to go wide, or by how much.
4.4 mm lead balls
I even tried some 4.4 mm lead balls in the gun, just to see what they would do. They grouped in about 3 inches at 10 feet and two of them were three inches to the left of the aim point. So, no dice there, either.
I think if I could find some larger BBs they might work better in the gun. But that’s just a guess. And there is a gap in BB sizes between 0.173-inches (4.4 mm) and 0.177-inches (4.5 mm) It’s going to be hard to find something in that gap. Because the spring-loaded front sight is also a locking mechanism for the shot tube, there is no bending the blade the way we used to regulate BB guns when I was a kid.
Conclusion
The Daisy Number 12 Model 29 BB gun is a curious relic of yesteryear. It’s smaller than you might imagine, yet more powerful than you expect. However, when it comes to shooting, it is a crap shoot — at least the one I am testing is. This is a gun that would be best left on display and never shot. I’m sorry the story ends this way, but you can’t win them all.
For what it’s worth, in my buying/selling/trading days, I’ve come across several of these…happily, I might add. Then, disappointingly.
While I certainly was not nearly so meticulous as you documenting and recording my shots, had I been, likely would have pretty much matched your results in random selection.
However, there was a memorable comparative observation involving a pea-shooter and a go-go dancer at what we used to call an “amusement facility” just outside the gate at Fort Sill. No harm came to anyone, and the Daisy was not directly involved, but shall we say, the pea launching device was noted to be much more accurate than the Daisy.
Nice to know, all those periods in detention were not wasted.
I think the thing about this gun ain’t about how it shoots. Well if we compare it to what a modern air gun or bb gun can do.
What is probably thought about is if this gun comes up in a conversation is how it made a person feel when they was a kid and received it from a parent or grandparent. Or even saved their money up and their dad said come on. I think I know how you should spend that money you been saving up.
Back then it was just the best thing in the world to receive that first gun that you could actually shoot at something and hit it. Well even if it wasn’t accurate. You tryed your butt off to hit something. And man when you finally hit what you was trying for you just kept going till you done it again.
There was no such thing as getting wore out from shooting to much. You just kept shooting till one of your parents said that’s enough for the day. And man I hated when that time came. I went to sleep waiting for the next day to come. Go to school and get the chores done around the farm. Then it was all on after that. Shoot and have fun till the sun went down.
Man there was some good memories made back then.
GF1,
People ask me where I come up with ideas for stories like the ones in “BB Guns Remembered”. This is where I get them.
B.B.
BB
I haven’t read your book yet. Put I promise I’m going to as soon as Pyramyd AIR gets it in stock. Got to make a pellet order soon so I hope they have it in stock pretty soon.
But I was basically telling about some of the memories I had as a kid. And believe me I have alot more. I still think I had one of theses Daisy’s though when I was young. I think I may of had one before I got my 760. I still distinctly remember how the shot tube unlatches.
And I just thought of something. I never got my daughters their own air rifle. They always have shot mine. It never occurred to me they might want one of their own to hang on too. I think I will have to strike up a conversation with them this weekend and hint around as to what kind of air gun they would like if they had their own.
Maybe Santa will deliver some this Christmas for them.
🙂
B.B.,
Too bad this one is that inaccurate. I expected to be slow, not hot, and accurate, not the wild shooting gun that it is. For some reason, and I’m sure the 499 has something to do with it, I have come to associate muzzle-loading with being accurate.
Might it have an especially tight barrel (the BB doesn’t roll out when its tipped), and that makes the BBs spit out of the gun?
Michael
I’d have to find a good deal on one to be verified interested, it seems to shooting a lot like my RedRyder and most other spring powered BB guns I’ve gotten a hold of lately.
I had considered a Bricemount and little scope to allow adjustment for POI when it was about all I could shoot but I’d prefer to see one in person first.
B.B.
Thanks for the test, even though the ending is so sad; I was hoping it would at least be close to my Red Ryder in accuracy (3/4″ groups at 15′ with Avanti Precision Shot, and it shoots to point of aim, a nice little gun =>). It’s a pretty little gun, but it would have been even better if it could at least hit the bottom of a soda can at even 10 feet. Thanks again for the report, though.
And have a blessed Thanksgiving!
dave
When I just read Dave’s comment about it would been better if it hit the bottom of can at 10 feet.
Just out of curiosity can a stronger spring be added to these types of Daisy’s fairly easy if a person wanted to kick the performance up a bit?
Like the airsoft gun upgrades. Maybe a little more performance could be had. And I’m kind of thinking on the lines of the velocity boost could make the Daisy more accurate.
GF1,
Stronger springs don’t do anything except make the cocking harder.
B.B.
BB
Ok so they are what they are and you have to love them for that I guess.
Never really messed with them. Thought maybe somebody had some tricks up their sleeve on modifying them.
Maybe I should get two of the 499’s for my daughters for Christmas then.
They have never shot with the sights that come on a 499. I wonder if they will adapt to that type of sight. I did teach them to shoot traditional open sight though. So maybe that would be a good sight for them to learn also.
That sounds like a good winter project to me down in the basement. I actually got 20 yards I measured out down there. Guess I got to bribe my wife and get her a Christmas present she wants. The things we do to shoot a air gun. 🙂
GF1,
Most armies have found the peep sight to be the easiest non-optical sight to learn. That’s why M16s have them and why they have been on all the battle rifles this country has fielded since 1873.
B.BN.
BB
Then it will be. Looks like a pair of 499’s and some precision ground bb’s for Christmas to me.
GF1,
“Christmas to me”????? I thought those were for the (daughter’s)……not Dad! 😉
Glad your getting one,….errrr,… two. You,….errrr,….THEY will love it!
Chris USA
I was going to make the order now because Pyramyd AIR has that 10% off + free shipping over a $149.
But their out of the pellets I want. I hope the pellets get in stock before the sale ends.
Guess I should order the guns now though. Still got a pretty good supply of pellets to last me for a while and can get more later I suppose. 🙂
When did that start???! I just made my order it processed the 20th with the 10% but not both. Ehh, its 10-12$, but I saved 28$ for now anyway with the jsb 13s still out of stock so they didnt run yet. Those are a seperate order now and obviously not over 150 so doesnt matter anyway, but if the both deal lasts awhile I might have to see what I can come up with.
What about a heavier piston head to squeeze the last of the air out better and keep it from bouncing. That way your not binding up the spring.
GF1,
I was surprised you thought of a stronger spring. Your tunes often include a spring cut. I would think that the lighter weight/plus bb’s, would dictate a less powerfull spring. It could be that the spring and performance are not so well matched. The 499 shoots 240 and this one was getting 320 or so. Yea, the 499 has a better barrel, but still,….something to think about. Chris
Chris USA
Sometimes not enough power hurts performance to.
I just recently turned up the power on my Tx and 300. I always got some kind of wind blowing at this house.
The Tx was doing pretty good but just needed a little more to help it in the wind. Doing real good now. So I got the balance right with a nice shot cycle still but getting the velocity I want. Plus a flatter trajectory that will help not have to put as much hold over or under in the gun at different distances.
The 300 has been a little tricky. I put a heavy spring in it and it was doing great in the wind but was ridiculous to cock. Problem was that I’m sure if I kept that spring in it I was bound to tear something up in the gun. So I just swapped some springs with Buldawg and put the two counter wound springs from his 300 junior in mine. His springs were 2″ longer than my factory 300 springs. Plus I put a 1/8″ thick steel washer at the end of each spring. So I got 2 1/4″ longer springs in it now. Doing much better now. Still light to cock but I think just enough velocity to keep the pellet cutting through the wind plus has a flatter trajectory now also.
That’s like if I shoot the .22 caliber Talon SS and the .25 caliber Marauder in the wind I don’t even know its windy.
But yep to fast is no good sometimes as well as to slow. So that’s why I suggested maybe a heavier spring would help the Daisy because I knew it was still shooting on the slower side.
You never know till you try and I know you know what I mean.
GF1,
Interesting,……Just when I think I got all your tricks figured out,…..you throw in a new one! 😉
By the way, the LGU does seem to best with the 15.89’s. Who told me that? The TX seems to like 18.13’s better, but it’s puttin’ out more fps too.
I forget now,…but someone told me that to keep trying heavier pellets in order to see if it will “tame-down” the groupings. Who was that? 😉 Like you said, depending on the day, it can be toss up between the 15.89’s and 18.13’s. Chris
Chris USA
That’s kind of what I found with the two different weight JSB’s.
I just ended up going with the 15.89’s because they performed good in the lower velocity guns I had as well as the higher velocity ones.
That’s back when I was trying to get a standard pellet I guess I’ll say in each caliber that performed well in a variety of guns I had. I now use the H&N Barracuda 31.02 in my Marauder. Which is the only .25 I have now. But they did perform well in other .25 caliber guns I had. Then the JSB Exact 15.89’s in .22 caliber and the JSB Exact 10.34’s in .177 caliber.
It just seems that they work well in pretty much all guns I tryed them in and just stuck with them. And that’s just me. I’m sure if I dug deeper and tryed other pellets I could maybe get better than .600″ groups on my guns @ 50 yards. Maybe. 😉
GF1,
😉 ,….All Good advice and recommendations. .600 @ 50 huh?,…….Man!,….I got a way’s to go……
By the way,…since snow and cold have come up,…at least for those “up North”,…I just got a set of snow and ice tires for the Winter. I swear by em’. Figure in the peace of mind and a 500/1000$ deductible and it’s a good investment. Huge difference. Got kid’s driving? Something to think about for all. Take em’ off in the spring. They are a softer compound and thus wears quicker, but you should get 2-3 winter’s from them at least. Stopping distance is 100′ vs 170′ in one example, plus the traction is un-equaled. Chris
I had some studded snow tires that came with my’73 Capri and they also did we’ll in mud but we’re illegal to run on bare pavement.
Never got I’m trouble for it but left scratches all over town from every tim time they spun
BB,
Do you think maybe the gun you tested here was just a lemon? We have both shot a lot of Daisys over the years, and we know they are almost always more accurate than this one. I am thinking that the biggest variable at these short ranges would be the shot tube. If this gun were mine, and I was really concerned about accuracy, I’d try to find another shot tube that would fit it. It is possible that the tube might simply be worn out.
Kids like to experiment. Maybe that gun had been shooting pebbles, nails, and other “experimental ammunition”?
I don’t think most people acquiring this gun are interested in accuracy anyway. This looks to me to be much more of a collector’s piece, like the old Model 25 I rebuilt. That gun is fairly accurate, but that is not why I bought it.
Les
Les,
I don’t think this one is a lemon, but I’ll bet there are guns that are more accurate. This one is probably on the low side.
B.B.
About 15 years ago I did considerable research on BB gun accuracy. My goal was to find a one that would hold all its shots on a pop can at 10 meters. I found two guns that would do it: a particular Daisy Model 25 and a particular Daisy Buck Special. That was it. I tried many types of BB’s including lead, tried different external barrel stiffeners etc. Then I tried the Daisy 840 Grizley. Best BB guns Daisy ever built! They shoot hard and will consistently keep all shots in an inch and an eighth at 10 meters! Then I read BB’s writing about the 499B! As a target BB gun none better. I shot one-fourth inch groups at 10 meters consistently. Accuracy seemed to fall off a little after a while and I’m not sure why.
On the gun under test I wonder if a bit of rust near the muzzle might be spinning the BB from time to time?
Thanks for another most interesting Blog!!
Fido3030,
I just pulled the shot tube and examined it from both ends. There IS rust at the muzzle end, as you predicted. It’s deep and bubbling up, so it will take a lot to clean it, if I can get it all. I’m starting with a spritz of Ballistol, to break down the rust, so I can hopefully brush it out over the weekend.
If I can clean the bore, I will try this gun again for accuracy and report the results. If they are negligible, I’ll just mention them in another report.
Thank you,
B.B.
BB
I’m very interested if that helps your Daisy.
Maybe another way to keep a old gun alive and shooting. Not just sitting there looking pretty.
GF1,
I’m very interested, too. I never thought to look through the bore, and this might have played a big part in those results.
B.B.
I just had a problem posting a reply, instead of posting I was sent to the PA homepage and it’s not here.
I reset my phone and was still stuck on the homepage for my first 3 attempts. This has happened before and I contacted IT about it but I believe the blog stayed down for the rest of the weekend so I was about to send a email but finally got the blog pulled up so I’ll just say it here.
I hope it works well for the weekend otherwise it’s gonna just look like nobody’s interested in commenting on this blog.
BB
Not w I wonder if a rifled barrel on a pellet can maybe get condensation in a barrel and cause surface rust of some sort.
Maybe a few drops of the RWS oil in the barrel at the breech end where you load a pellet is a good idea.
That’s what I tend to do if I start seeing accuracy change. I don’t do it often. But I will from time to time.
Maybe even that’s why some guns need a few shots to get grouping good if they haven’t been shot in a while.
I hope that works on your Daisy. And now something to keep in mind on other guns I believe.
I used to keep a 12ga swab in the muzzle of my Winchester model12 until the jerk at the beginning of our easement decided to block the driveway with a bag of trash.
I came home from a hard day’s work to see it blocking my way and lost it!
I was driving the Plymouth Arrow so I rolled over it and dumped the clutch in 2nd, shredding it all over his front yard, grabbed the shotgun and a box of shells and trimmed some low branches in my backyard waiting to see if he had the Nads to confront me about it. All the down floating in the air made me stop long enough to notice a slight bulge about 2″ from the muzzle.
Reb,
Easy there!!!,… Rambo! 😉
There was a little more to the story but I got so mad thinking about it I had to take 5 & split it in half.
I guess the part where I handed the gun to someone else and told them to stay outta sight but listen while I ironed out the wrinkles was pushing it.
Anyway this jerk put my Mother through living he’ll once I moved to Austin and it’s just about payback time.
I almost called the sheriff’s department last night after writing it.
The dirt I have includes but not necessarily limited to: insurance fraud, homicide and organized crime.
Sounds like life to me. 🙂
Reb,
Easy again,….if half of that is true, then you may think twice. Some “critters” you don’t want to mess with with unless your are (sure) you can mess with em’ back. Do as you will,…just sayin’.
If I can get a truly bad guy like that away from the general public and possiblysave someone else’s life it’s more than worth it to me.
I’ve lost too many good friends to such nefarious characters.
What’s held me back this long is that he has family members working in the DMV.
Might be a good idea to get a GDP first though.
When I got home with my”box of airguns” I dumped all old ammo and inspected all removable shot tubes before proceeding. What I found was that copper coated BB’s do rust while the silver ones looked good.
I feel this knowledge should be shared by a bigger voice than mine as a service to BB shooters. I’m still baffled as to why that one jammed but se la vie.
Gotta good movie for most adults; The setting is L.A. IN the early’50’s and a “Gangster Squad”(also the name of the movie has been recruited to put an end to Mickey Cohen’s ruthless assault on the burgeoning city. Starring Josh Brolin(James’ son), Sean Penn and others other viewers will probably recognize with plenty of gunplay and action as well as some truth. It’s a fictionalized account of the overthrow and incarceration of the west cost mob boss. Trenchbrooms and 1911’s everywhere.
Everyone,
The blog has been down since early this morning. It came back up and went down again.
Pyramyd Air’s IT department is looking into what is happening.
B.B.
BB
I was wondering if it was my phone last night because I couldn’t get on.
Hopefully all good now.
Good!,
I missed ya’all this mornin’ with my first cup of coffee. Best of luck on keeping the “gremlins” out of the works.
Chris, catch me at the bottom regarding the center approach I intend to use, it sounds like I need to talk with someone knowledgeable about that.
Glad it’s back up! The temperature is in the 20’s here and they’re calling for a wintry mix of precipitation so fishing won’t be much fun and opening the back door will have to wait for warmer weather.
I’ll probably go nuts anyway but if that happens y’all get to watch it unfold.
Reb
We’re getting snow right now. 1-3″ possibly and to the north of us 3-6″. And they say down to 18 tonight with a high of 35 tomorrow. And it’s windy as can be today. Like 20 mph wind.
They say tomorrow a little warmer and sunshine and 6-8 mph winds. So hopefully get some shooting in tomorrow. Have to get the propane heater going in the breezway I guess already.
It’s normally in the 60’s right now with low’s in the 40’s. Next week is suppose to be back up there. I just hope the wind is nice. I’m off for 5 days next week and well ready for it after all this overtime I been working.
Enjoy your time off! And be prepared to batten down the hatches, I don’t think my eyes could handle a blanket of white right now and my legs start freezing up in the 40’s.
Reb
The snow fizzled out but the wind still came and went. But cold though. Not ready for this cold stuff yet.
Get prepared because it’s cold and windy here too and it’s headed y’all’s way and will be even colder that far north.
I opened the door long enough to put 3 through the 2400 & 2240 but that’s about it for me.
Reb
I hope you made them shots count. 🙂
Still dialing in the point sight on my 2240 and have yet to study up on the adjustment turrets on the UTG. Gotta good crash course online for the turrets?
Reading paperwork with my readers requires hold either my face or paper about 6″ away but I can read the phone from about 12″ so I’m much more relaxed and can get more done at a time.
Reb
Don’t know what you mean about the turrets.
What do want to know?
I wanna know everything I can learn before I start messing with this brand new scope to avoid any pitfalls.
I just searched UTG turret adjustments and found a good place to start so I think I got it covered.
Gotta wait for decent daylight tomorrow so I can start by making sure it’s centered before anything else.
Looks like I stumbled across a series of videos by UTG. I won’t be able to share a link on this phone but I’ll try to give enough information to get someone who needs to learn in the right place when I get done.
The locking and resettable turrets are new to me and this is only my second brand new scope so I’m taking the hypocratic approach; First, do no harm!
Reb,
“making sure it’s centered”,….? Click center or optical center? The manual says to back the locks off 40~70 degrees to allow the knobs to turn. They were still pretty stiff. I mentioned that to BB one time and he said he will back them off a couple of turns. I did it and they did turn much more freely. If you are doing the full up/down and in/out, you want to be sure you can feel the (stops) at each end. When I first tried the click center, the scope broke on the E turret because I could not feel the up stop well enough. Have not done it since. Optical center is more playing in the middle range and is whole lot less clicking.
Lots of opinions on whether to do one or the other, or, not at all. Since you just got it, I would just mount and shoot. By the way, I called UTG onetime and they said their scopes come set to middle on the turrets.
I have the L-1 turrets on mine. 3-12×44 swat. The L-1 section has a caution statement that says if you loosen the screw on the top of the cap, the lock rings must be either tight or loose. If not done correctly, damage can occur. Leave the screws on top alone until you understand that. Pg.18, halfway down.
Hope some of that helps, Chris
“UTG operator’s manual” is a series of videos designed to be a user’s guide that offers simulated graphics of what to do and not that seems very informative so far ,
I gotta go find #2 though for some reason it jumped over that one.
GF1,
“Propane heater”,….”breezeway”,…..man,….you got it “rough”. No wonder you are so good,…..you get to shoot year round! Mmmmmm,…maybe time to go house shopping? 😉
Just caught that,……Chris
Some guys have all the luck, some guys get all the breaks.RS
Reb
Got to have priorities you know.
And overtime ain’t no fun is all I can say.
You got to enjoy what you got. You never know when it could be gone.
You’re right and I believe you’ve done a good job getting your ducks in a row.
Just a little longer and it’ll be a l’orange for you.
Keep up the good work buddy!
Chris USA
This house and the other both had a breezway. Just can’t see it no other way.
Reminds me of back when I was a kid working on the muscle cars out on the gravel driveway; rain, snow or shine. Wasn’t till in my mid 30’s before I got a house with a garage. Don’t know how I did that stuff back then. Aint no way I’m going to lay on gravel and work on a car nowdays.
But I will say that shooting as I please all year long does make a difference. As they say. Practice makes perfect.
But they never seem to say how hard that really could be.
GF1,
How hard???? That first 80% is pretty easy to get to. That other 18% is what separates the “boys from the men”. That last 2% is for the airgun elite and/or the very naturally talented.
Yea,…did that gravel driveway stuff myself. Back “in the day”,…no problem. Today,…uhhh?, what?, who me?, forget it….
Priorities,….that “covers a lot of ground”. So true,…Chris
I actually did most of my shadetree mechancing either on dirt or grass to avoid the gravel rash.
But once I had a rack I was spoiled for life. They ain’t cheap but it makes a world of difference!
I was working on a ’89 Dakota rack & pinion unit job in an apartment complex parking lot when I had my stroke so I would still do it but only for a good friend and enough money.
Reb
If it was what I needed to do to survive I would.
But the body just doesn’t want to do it anymore.
But definitely enjoyed it when I was younger.
Reb,
Again,…easy there!,……no “melt-downs” allowed. 😉 Chris
P.S……It’s getting cold here too. Much colder than you have. The 25 and 50 might be shut down for a few. Still,…make the most of what you got. Heck,…if anything is going to drive you “nuts” it’s going to be all those restorations you got going on,…. at the same time! 😉
Update,
I have decided NOT to put a magnet on the 499 barrel. Why? From magnetic bolt trays at work,…I learned that if you leave something in them long enough,…those items will also become slightly magnetic. Since the 499 is a muzzle loader,..if the accuracy did not improve and I did want to remove the magnet,….a magnetized barrel would not be good. Load bb, bb sticks, poke bb, bb drops, shoot bb…..you get the idea.
On the other hand, the Red Ryder could definitly use the help,..(when compared to the 499). Just not sure how to get the barrel out of that puppy. The 499 just un-screws and you have the barrel in your hand.
This idea was all to induce “back-spin” on the bb and improve accuracy (per ideas on this blog from readers). Chris
In order to access the barrel on this newer crop of Daisies the metal shroud must be bent away unclamping the plastic muzzle locater, it doesn’t take much but will most likely crack the paint inviting rust. I’ve only done this on one’s that would otherwise be worthless.
That’s why I prefer the older removable shot tube guns.
Reb,
Thanks for the ideas. The Red Ryder seems to have a plastic wedge that locks in. No tabs to bend. There is no movement to it. The wedge is on the bottom side of the shroud, under/opposite the front site. Chris
That little square shaped plastic button on bottom is what must be cleared, then the whole plastic assembly will slide out including the loading door. I did actually put one back together just to see how bad it would be and it turned out well but the key is to only bend as much as is necessary for clearance.
Speaking of refurbs driving me nuts. I’ve put everything else on hold while sorting out my 1377 & 2240 but can’t move anything so my apartment is full of project workstations in halfbaked appearance.
At least I still have my health. :/
Reb,
😉 Sound’s like you got your “winter’s” work cut out for you! 50 degrees up here will get me 2 hrs. outside, but I will be cold by the end of it. Nov. ~ March……if it’s 50 degrees, I will be thinking real hard about getting out.
I see what you mean. Things that are un-bent must often be over-bent to return to the same position. The split shroud must be opened up. I will have to give it some thought. Right now it’s a Red Ryder 75th. that is barely shot. Maybe,…. I might want to leave it alone? Heck,..it might a appreciate a whole 2$ in 10 years. Chris
Yeah with new ones selling for under$25 the market is saturated. Driving prices on most Daisy guns so low they don’t put much money in your pocket to sell or hock. Your 75the anniversary should be left alone.
Chris USA
You don’t have a demagnitizer at work?
We have to demagnitze anything that we put on a surface grinder. The table is a magnet to hold the fixtures or vises or piece you have on the table your working on or with.
We also demagnitze the collets that hold the parts in the production machines.
It wouldn’t be good if that stuff was magnetic and you were cutting steel. It biulds up on the holders and gets trapped in the collets.
That causes all kinds of issues when your machining. So we demagnitze alot of stuff. That’s like number one rule in a machine shop.
GF1,
Wow!,….never even heard of one. Basically,…how does that work?
Enough vibration should return any magnetic object to near zero magnetism.
Waiting to see what he says but that’s part of the reason speakers wear out.
Reb,
Yea,…I have heard a few good hammer taps will do the trick,……”re-align the molecules” and all such stuff. Just never had the need to try it much.
Chris USA
Reb is absalutly right.
It’s a little electric box with a steel flat surface on top. It has magnets inside.
When you lay your steel piece on the flat surface and flip the switch the part will vibrate if you try to pull it off.
Here’s the thing. It can also magnitize the part if you don’t use it correctly.
Lay the part on it. Turn it on. Lift a it above the surface a little bit so it vibrates. Then lift it completely off. Then turn it off.
If you leave it laying on it and turn it off it will actually magnitize the piece.
GF1,
Thanks for the education. We did some machine work but not much. Often on copper. Now that the company switched hands, they want to do it all out of house. We did that years ago and due to rejected parts and time delays, we started to do it in house. We’ll see how this works out.
It does sound like a crap shoot in every way. So, B.B., why the monopod for testing. I don’t think most people would have the skill to hold it as steady as a rest. Perhaps you have found a way to do that and it is more convenient for your five yard range.
While the Old West is an unavoidable part of American history, I don’t believe kids take to it anything like even my generation. The kids now seem more interested in Star Wars and their hip hop abominations. The Western interest seems to have transferred to an older crowd in Cowboy Action Shooting.
B.B., I maybe the guy to mess up your fool proof pistol shooting position.
Chris USA, I hadn’t thought that a simple change of grips could bump the 747 into a higher realm of performance. But unless there is something more to the ideal hold than the grip, like maybe the angle of the buttstock, then maybe your solution would do it. I was sold on the 747 from a single line of a B.B. review which was: “You can hit the eraser of a pencil 10 times out of 10 at 10 meters.” I don’t believe I’ve ever quite achieved that, but I believe that the gun could do it.
Matt61
Matt,
As a longtime reader I thought you knew about the monopod.
Read this:
/blog/2015/01/utg-monopod-v-rest-and-camera-adapter-part-2/
B.B.
Yes, I remember that post and your positive reaction, but I didn’t expect it to find that much favor as to equal a conventional rest.
Matt61
Matt61,
Thanks for the feed-back…..that was a few days ago. The idea of adding putty or epoxy to a grip does not sit well with me. But, no doubt,…it would do the job. Grinding away material is another story. At least with the higher end pistols you have something that puts you in the “ball park”,….and adjust from there. The 747 would be “ground-up” mod. and take some time from 2 slabs of wood. That is assuming you could even put “raw” slabs on one and go from there. As for the angle and wrist lock,…it would seem that it could be done at the same time with the grip mod.. Heck,…with enough wood,…you could turn the 747 into a rifle with a full butt stock. Chris
The right Sid grip on my 2240 keeps coming loose and I’ve ground all flashing off contact areas to ensure full contact of mating surfaces but still coming loose within 10 rounds so I’ve decided to get some modelling clay to also get rid of the hollow feel and sound. It’s generally oil based to keep from drying out which May soak into the plastic but I’m gonna try it anyway . How much could the stock replacement grips be through Crosman after all?
Reb,
While not familiar with the 2240 grips,….if they are held on with screws,…I would think that Loc-Tite would fix the problem. Blue.
Putty/clay is an interesting approach. Would add weight, decrease vibration, improve solid feel…..sounds like the idea might have some merit. Still,…loose screws,….Loc-Tite.
I’ll check the ones on my 1377 but they feel much more solid and resilient.
I may eventually get around to placing that Crosman order and adding a pair of those but that’s a project for another day.
I’m not sure loctite will do the trick but I’ll try next time I pull em, they just don’t fit very well. I’m considering swapping grips with the 1377 for the time being. They just feel much better than the ones on the 2240. If I do that tonight maybe I’ll be able to get 5 rounds in tomorrow which would be a good test because that’s about where I notice that it’s loosened again.
I like the1377 being selfish contained but pumping it aggravates the left thumb I crushed at the shop about10 years ago so I May build it up and let someone talk me out of it.
It’s a good little gun and probably much more accurate than I’m capable of but after 10 pumps I have to let my thumb stop throbbing before shooting it. I’ve started using only 3-5 pumps but it’s just not the same especially on spinners.
Reb
Make sure the screws aren’t touching when you tighten them up.
If you overtightened the screws into the plastic the the bottom of the screws will touch.
It will seem like the screws are tight. They will bottom out and the grip will still be loose.
Done that before but maybe you got something different going on.
Shouldn’tremoving 1/8″ from one or both fix that?
I didn’t tighten anything on the 2240 before shooting it except the gas tube cap. However after about 5 rounds it was loose then I tightened it and it kept coming loose so I May have eventually overtightened it as frustration set in and inspected for any cracks with none visible.
Thanks for the heads up!
I’ll look for that.
Reb
Yes remove some of the bottom of the screws. Of course if that is what happened.
Guess that means I did the wrong thing by dressing the contact surface with an emery board them eh?
Reb
If you mean on the surface of the grip that contacts the metal part of the trigger assembly. That was probably not a good thing to do.
Well, live & learn.
I didn’t wanna start off with shoe goo on a brand new pistol. As I said earlier I’ll probably swap grips with the 1377 for now and order another set for it later.
Thanks for being so generous with your knowledge!
Not just for me but everyone else here.
Reb
I got extra grips if you want a set.
Let me know.
Had to take it to the bottom.
Just make sure the wood you choose is dry and aged to avoid warpage.
Matt61,
On the mono-pod,……I made one of my own after it first came out,…,.handy that way. 😉
Dare I say better? Still, while it was a bit awkward at first, I gave it a 90~95% stabilty vs a bench rest.
The “drive” at the time was chucks in the woods and not having to improvise a rest on the spot.
Use/try one as BB describes and you will be surprised. Chris
Gunfun, I don’t know how long I’ll need them but yes I’ll take you up on that. I still haven’t tried it with the 1399 yet because I like it being portable.
Have y’all ever tried authentic Boudain sausage?
Reb
No I don’t know what kind of sausage that is.
Would you rather have a 1399 stock instead of the grips?
I know I have one extra of those. Maybe more. But I know I got one 1399 stock if you want it.
Boudain is a rice and pork sausage with Cajun spices and I found 1 brand locally that tastes like the stuff the street vendors sell during Mardi gras. It’s spicy alright but I love the stuff! I practically lived off that and Budweiser for a week while working LaFayette.
Anyway I been thinking about freezing some up to send your way. The weather certainly seems to be cooperating. Would you like some more pecans to go along with it? Or gimme a price on the extras you can let go of
Reb
Tell me what you want and I’ll send it Monday.
And the pecans are gone. The sausage sounds great. And love that spicy stuff.
But you don’t need to send anything. Just tell me what you prefer. Grips or 1399 stock.
I was more than likely gonna get another 1399 for one of these guns but need a set of grips too, if you have extras that you don’t mind giving up. I was in no hurry though and saving for a HIpac first. Don’t give up something you’d just end up buying again. I really like this 2240 in pistol configuration!
I’m sure I’ll end up putting a longer barrel on it but I’m gonna take this one a little slower. When funds come available I plan to get one of the BNM .25 shrouded kits then the real tough choices come into play.
Reb
I got what I need. I’ll ship the grips Monday.
Don’t worry about giving me something. All good.
How you gonna get authentic Boudain up there when it’s hard to find here? It took me about 10 years to find a good brand.
Reb
Well that’s a good question.
🙂
Now I need your new address.
🙂
Reb
Ok. Got your text. Sending mine now.
GF1,
I have stuffed homemade sausage,…the Boudain sounds good. I would believe that the rice is more of an “extender”…..making more of less. But yes, it sounds good. The rice would absorb the spices as well as the grease from the pork. I have several books on sausage and I am sure there is a recipe for some in them. Pig’s blood is used in some sausages. I guess when cooked, it has a livery flavour and has a gelled like texture. Hungry?…… 😉 I would try it.
Chris USA
I love sausage and salami too.
My boss use to bring in the best deer sausage I ever had. One time he brought in a deer rost his wife made and had bread and gravy made from the roast. It just melted in your mouth.
And yes I heard they use the blood in some sausage. If it taste good that’s all I care. Oh and I been using that gohst pepper hot sauce you sent me in my kosher dill pickles. Nothing like hot dill pickle. Love it.
Wanted to let you know that I pulled the grips on both the 2240 & 1377 and gave all 4 screws about 20 passes on a file then swapped em out with each other. The difference so far was well worth the effort but it’ll take a good session or two to know if it actually works for the long term.
Those screws only need to be about half the length they come to do their job.
Wonder why Crosman is wasting steel like that?
Reb
Probably because its a standard length screw. The next size smaller could be to short. So they use the he lnger ones.
But I believe they are ok. The over tightening caused the problem.
Matter of fact how could you over tighten if the screws were already to long and touching. You know what I mean.
Anybody still here?
Reb– The march of the French Foreign Legion– also called la Boudin– “-Theres no Boudin for the Belgians ” etc. — Boudin is usually translated as blood sausage. Is there a connection to your boudAin ? Look up the march . Its a famous military song. Ed
The way the Cajun pronounce it sounds like
Boo Dan. I’ll have to look up that cadence to get some background on it and I’ll also get some on the sausage it’s mostly rice with little chunks of pork and lotsa spice and the casing is really not supposed to be crisp which means when you bite it on one end the filling tries to come out the other so during Mardi gras it was just sausage in your hand but back here in Texas I wrap a tortilla around mine and sometimes throw a dab of spicy mustard.
I wanna make some with crawdad or shrimp just to see what that would be like but finding someone who will give up a secret recipe is the big challenge with that.
After all the colonel Sanders recipe is still vaulted and he’s been gone for a while now.
Reb,
Check out Chef Paul Prudhomme’s website. He is the Colonel Sanders of Cajun cooking, and there may be a recipe for what you are looking for in one of his cookbooks. There are several to choose from and he also sells several fine spices. Unfortunately, he passed away a few months ago.
Bugbuster
I’ll check it out,
Thanks!
Not really much of a cook myself but I do make an awesome lasagna.
PS pardon my French, its LE Boudin. Ed
That’s the first thing I noticed and it makes sense being a French word.
What I found through Wikipedia is that boudin appears to be a generic term for many types of sausage from the German / Belgian/Acadian regions whereas Boudain is Cajun. Also the packs the legion carried were rolled up in red blankets that resembled sausage. One thing that struck a familiar chord was a pudding consistency which is what Boudain feels kinda like when it squirts into your mouth.
Getting ready to lay down now. Thanks for the trivia!
Chris, I do recall your incident.
I was planning to center this 4×32 using the mirror method because I feel it’s a safer method. The video said there are 2 camps and one says click center with the other claiming mirror was best. But no reason was given by either.
I’d like to start with that if you don’t mind because there will be others looking for this information in due time.
I doubt UTG strayed much from their own video but what did they say?
Reb,
As I remember, I called them just to ask if their turrets come “centered” from the factory. As I recall, we did not discuss click or mirror centering. What PA# is yours? I see several 4×32’s offered. Do you know what turret style you have? My manual shows 6, on page 16, L-1~L-6.
My take on mirror setting is that it may correct any optical error. The goal then would be to shim the scope as much as possible to get your poi and poa the same. Get that close, then dial in with the turrets.
Knowing both would be best. I did that with the Hawke I got from GF1. If I remember correct, the E had about 7 1/2 full turns. From mirror, with shimming, at 30 yds……I ended up with 10 clicks up and 20 out on W.
Also, mirror and clicking will not be the same. BD76 has done many and I believe he said that he has rarely, if ever, saw the two end up at the same clicks.
I had to find it on the box
Scp-U432AOD is the number on the opposite end from the bar code,
I haven’t even pulled the caps so I don’t know which turrets yet but my first shot landed 3 mil dots low @ 10yds with windage dead center. Sounds like I may need a shim to me but I’m sure it’s probably on the money about 25-30 yds so not sure because I don’t have access to that much range. I just don’t wanna lose all my elevation adjustment this close.
I’ll probably end up speaking with one of the UTG reps in the end but would like to get things lined out correctly as much as possible before calling them.
Reb,
I found your scope. It has “Hunter” turrets, which is a J-4,( not the L1~L6) that I mentioned above. They are shown as J-1~J-6. Another tip BD76 gave was to set the mag. level all the way down and the AO all the way up when doing the mirror bit.
I was worried that you would be low. I would say shim within reason and use the turrets for the rest. I have gone to around .011″ with no problem.
Good luck and take it slow.
Thanks for that! It’s a 4×32 so magnification is fixed.
When I shimmer the scope on the Regal I only used one layer of my fishing license and it worked well, don’t know exactly how thick it is but it’s between regular paper and card stock and feels like plastic. I was concerned about slippage but the Regal hasn’t slipped so I’m confident one layer will get me close enough and probably save about 5 clicks.
Thanks for the help!
It says” finger adjustable turrets” on the box and I don’t see any way to lock them, I tried pulling the knobs out but they didn’t budge. Still not sure which turrets it has.
Reb,
You did read the manual, did’nt you? If a pull did not work, try a push. I would think that they would be the pull type, but maybe not. I read the manual and it does specify pull or push for your turrets. I remember that manual as leaving a bit to be desired in some areas, but is pretty good overall.
They may not do either and just rely on the click detent to keep it set. The manual says “apply gentle force on the rim and turn”, word for word. I just checked the Hawke and they do not push or pull. So that may be the type you have.
I just tested Gunfun about it,
It’s the same scope he just got because he sent me the link. I’m kinda hoping they don’t have a lock because I’ll be the only one messing with it.
I read what I could make sense of in the manual and have it sitting in front of me now, page 18 had some pictures but I didn’t see any that looked like mine.
Reb,
Mistake above,…the manual does NOT specify push or pull. I think you have the turn only type and the caps keep them from getting bumped.
That works for me!
Thanks again!
On the 499 bb rifle,
I shot 30 shots this am, 3×10, and the first 2 bb’s I sent down the barrel got stuck. I set them aside and began to measure. As best I could determine, the one’s that got stuck were 4.39mm and the ones that dropped were 4.38mm. This is the first time that I have encountered this after shooting about 1/2 of a 1050 count tub of Avanti Precision Ground Shot. The tub states 4.5mm,…glad they are not.
Not making anything of it, just thought I would mention it since we are on bb guns.
And I did not give up on a homemade bb gauge. I have yet to find a suitable material. The closest I have found is a U-shaped aluminum channel that Lowe’s sells. Think ] [.
Sounds like a harrowing escape from certain disaster! Good thing it’s a muzzle loading single shot!
I’m still sitting on the one that jammed on me outta one of my 102’s. Someone will be firing up a Turkey fryer before long and I guess I’ll try more heat this time. Really got nothing to lose except a little hair.
🙂
Reb,
Nothing as dramatic as “harrowing”…..they got stuck about a 1/2” from the muzzle end. When it happened, I removed the barrel so I had full view. A slight tap upside down and they came right out. The barrel has a coupler nut affair that is threaded to a plastic guide. The end of that guide can be seen as the muzzle cap. I figure that maybe the coupler nut looking thing is press fit onto the barrel. No threads are present.
Perhaps there is a bit of a swaging effect going on that is in effect “choking” the end of the barrel? I do not plan to take it down much further than that.
I keep forgetting the 499 has a removable shot tube.
Reb,
Yea, they got stuck on the way in, not out. Getting stuck on the way out would not be good. So you have one that is stuck from firing? (on the way out). Have you tried poking it out?
On a side note, the 4.39’s would drop through from the breech end,….but then again,…at that point, they had a little more momentum going.
The tube I had jam happened after dumping all BB’s and inspecting for rust afterwards I loaded up with Daisy premium grade from a 2400 countries tub, the gun was also oiled and let soak overnight. My best guess would be that a small flake of rust musta broke free during loading and oil caused it to stick to a BB on its way down the tube.
I yes a 12ga section of copper wire from the muzzle while holding the retention spring outta the way so not to bend it. When that didn’t work I tried again from the breech end.
After sliding the copper wire a few times I finally hung it on the oven rack and set it on broil for about 45 minutes, still no glory.
The 102 is a repeater with a reputation of poor feeding habits, had I stopped shooting it the first time I didn’t see a target strike I’d have probably been able to get it back out but I didn’t because I knew the tube was in good shape and the ammo was fresh, I just assumed it was the failure to fire the older removable shot tubes were known for.
I doubt it’s truly ruined Yet but more heat is the only thing else I can see getting it clear, it May have a bulge in the tube when I get done but at least it should shoot.
I thought I was doing everything the right way but it’s kinda like getting a used car only buying someone else’s problems sometimes.
Reb,
On shooting close range,…..26 degrees outside,… so I fired up the 41′ range. They hit about the same as the 25 and 30 yd. So…..with a little shimming,….your 10 yards ought to put you in the ballpark for further out.
Just did it,….just passing it along. Chris
Yup , I told Gunfun I didn’t think it would hurt anything but I may wait until I can get it over to my brothers and see what it does out there. As it is everything’s locked down and ready I just gotta take a shot to remember which way to put in the 3 mil dots for target shooting. It’s warm enough to open the back door and spit a few out so I’m gonna do that before it gets dark and cold again.
Reb,
Close= crosshairs under target
Distance=crosshairs over target
Well, that’s one of the drawbacks of not having a gauge on a PCP gun. It’s off the power curve and could be one reason it’s hitting low.
Anyway I’m gonna put some through the 2240 (if my dot sight will work)on this new target with what’s left of the dwindling daylight.
Reb,
PCP?,….you got me there. I do not pretend to know much about em’ other than what I have read. Good luck at your brother’s place. Hopefully you will get er’ dialed in to a nice Winter “plinker”.
The only one I have right now is the 2400kt I added a HIPac to, do that and get a HPA source and welcome to the dark side!
Chris USA
Not true all the time.
My .25 Marauder is one mildot under the cross hair at 15 yards as well as the Tx.
The .22 Talon SS is 3 mildots under the cross hair at 15 yards.
The .25 Marauder and .22 Talon SS are zero at 25, 35 and 50 yards.
Do you know how I make that happen. Velocity, scope hieght and magnification and pellet weight and coefficient.
Going to say it again.
Chairgun
GF1,
Yes, a lot of factors play in. And yes, I was thinking of Chairgun the whole time Reb and I were discussing scopes, ranges and hold under/overs. I was not sure he had it and I have not done much with it myself. Now getting cold out, I plan to revisit it.
Thanks, Chris
Just caught a huge blast of oily Co2 in the forehead.
I’m not sure exactly what happened. Time for another dot sight, this one needs to come off for repair/ adjustment. Finally got it dialed in and gotta pull it to tighten up the battery retention spring. I May be able to salvage it for something else but I’m not gonna deal with it constantly being a problem on this 2240 when they’re about 10 bucks, I like the compact design but despise relying on batteries.
I wanted it on this gun because it’ll work as a pistol or carbine but only IF it’ll work. I gotta few years outta it and it did well for the first couple or so.
It’s been wet, banged around and floated around in the bottom of my range box so I feel I got my money’s worth outta it and will be replacing it with another before long I’m sure, if it pulls through the surgery it’ll go into semi retirement. Putting it out to pasture, Farewell my dearest Daisy!
Chris– forget the shims. Get Burris Signature rings with offset inserts. They work better than shims. If you do not believe me, go to the Burris website for more info. I wish that BB would give them a test. I am sure that he would like them better than shims. Ed
Ed
I myself don’t like shims. But I have heard many people say the Burris product is good.
I won’t shim a springer because of the shot cycle. It tends to move the scope or rings around. I will use a droop mount on springers.
Same on a pcp, pump or Co2 gun. But they do have a more forgiving shot cycle than a springer.
My question is how does the Burris rings keep the inserts from sliding backwards out of the rings?
Do they have a groove or lip made in them to keep the ring in place?
GF1,
I would like to see a set of rings that adjust E and W once mounted. I did see a set that seemed to that, but it was not clear what did what and whether or not you had to remove the scope to adjust E. Plus. the more adjustment screws you have, the more set screws you have to lock the adj. screws. Despite the price, I don’t remember but I do not think they were 11mm dovetail compatible and no stop pin I am pretty sure. What I got has worked all summer. Still, the idea interest me.
Zimbabweed,
Thanks, I have them noted from before but made a note again and I will re-visit the site. I have 2 springers and a cloth type sticker with an adhesive back (that I got at work) works well, as well as toothpaste tubes. They both have some “squish” and have held well.
Gunfun 1– Yes, the rings have an inner grove to hold the inserts. Go to the Burris website- It will answer all of your questions. Ed
Ed
Ok thanks. I will check them out.