by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
BSA Supersport SE
This report covers:
• RWS Superdome pellets
• JSB Exact RS pellets
• 8-32X Aeon Classic rifle scope
• Baracuda Match pellets, 5.53mm heads
• Different hold
• Evaluation of the rifle
Today, I’m shooting the .22-caliber BSA Supersport SE at 25 yards. I’m also testing the Aeon 8-32X50 Classic rifle scope with a trajectory reticle mounted in the Diana Bullseye recoil-reducing scope mount. Those 2 products will each get their own separate reports because today I’m concentrating on just the rifle.
In Part 3, I shot the rifle at 10 meters using the open sights that came with it. From that test, I selected a couple pellets to try today. But first, I want to show you a picture of the Aeon 8-32X50 scope mounted on the rifle, because in the last report I mentioned how short it is for this range of power.
The Aeon 8-32X50 scope is the size of a 3-9x. This is the smallest scope I’ve seen with this kind of power.
Now, let’s test the rifle. I started with a 12-foot sight-in that told me the pellets would be on the paper at 25 yards. No sight adjustments were done at this time. It isn’t often that I mount a scope and it lines up this well without some adjustments, but this mount was very easy to install and apparently it had just the right amount of droop angle for this particular airgun. I backed up to 25 yards and started shooting.
I used the classic artillery hold, with my off hand rested on a sandbag. The rifle was balanced on the flat palm of my off hand, which was positioned just in front of the triggerguard.
RWS Superdome pellets
The first pellet tested was the RWS Superdome. It did fair in the 10-meter test, and I wanted to see if the scope would allow it to shoot better. But, that didn’t happen. After some scope adjustments and after allowing the scope to settle in (it has some stiction, so several shots are required after making an adjustment), I shot a 10-shot group that measures 1.442 inches between centers. There was nothing about this group that suggested I should shoot a second one with this pellet.
Ten RWS Superdomes went into this 1.442-inch group at 25 yards. Disregard the hole in the center of the bull. It was another pellet that was shot at a different target and strayed down to this bull.
JSB Exact RS pellets
In the 10-meter test, JSB Exact RS pellets did best of all. I figured they would also be good here. I shot the first 4 shots at a target, and then it dawned on me that I was shooting an 8-32x scope on 8x. I dialed it up to 14x and continued with the group. Only the point of impact seemed to move to the right!
I continued to shoot at this power setting — just to see what would happen. Sure enough, I got 2 different groups. One is on the left and the other is spread out on the right. I can’t say that I was shooting with the best artillery hold technique when I shot this group, because I was so fascinated with what was happening on the target. So, I don’t give this group any credit. All I can say is that I’m now wary of adjusting the power of a variable-power scope. I think the zero needs to be checked after adjustment.
Ten JSB Exact RS pellets went into this group. The point of impact shifted to the right when I changed the scope’s power from 8 to 14. Four shots on the left and 6 on the right. The “group” measures 1.879 inches between centers, but it isn’t representative of what this pellet can do.
8-32X50 Aeon Classic rifle scope
Here I was testing a rifle with a 32x scope and using less than half of that. What was wrong with me? I now adjusted up to 32x and shot the next group, which is quite telling.
This time, I got results! Ten JSB Exact RS pellets went into 0.994 inches at 25 yards, but as you see, 7 of those pellets are in just 0.295 inches! That shows the potential of the rifle, and it’s also why I like 10-shot groups over 5-shot groups. I know for a fact that one of those outlying pellet holes was made when I fired the rifle without completely relaxing. As for the other 2 outliers, I can’t say one way or another; but for sure, the 7 in the smaller group were all shot when I was completely relaxed.
With the scope set on 32x, the RS pellets wanted to group. The hold was extremely important to accuracy. Ten RS pellets are in 0.994 inches at 25 yards, and 7 of them are in 0.295 inches.
Technique is needed to shoot the SE at its best. A LOT of technique! For the airgunner who only owns one rifle, this technique soon becomes normal and very repeatable. For me, it’s something I must concentrate on with each shot, because I shoot so many different airguns all the time that I never get used to any of them.
What I’m saying is that I think this SE is a very accurate spring rifle; but to shoot it, you have to use the correct technique. That and also shoot the right pellet.
Baracuda Match pellets, 5.53mm heads
Next, I tried H&N Baracuda Match pellets with 5.53mm heads. I couldn’t get these on paper. I shot 3 of them and was only sure that the final one landed about 3.5 inches below the aim point. It’s the pellet that in the center of the bull in the first target shown.
Rather than chase this pellet around the paper, I decided to return to the JSB Exact RS and try a different hold — to see if I could get rid of those 3 fliers in the best group.
Different hold
Up to this point, I’d been holding the rifle rested on the palm of my off hand back by the triggerguard. For this test, I slid my off hand forward to the rear of the cocking slot. This removes about 75 percent of the wobbling that can be seen through the scope. But it didn’t help things. The pellets spread out vertically and even went off the paper. I stopped shooting after 4 shots. The original classic artillery hold is the best for the SE.
Evaluation of the rifle
I think the BSA Supersport SE is a fine air rifle. As we’ve seen today, it can be very accurate, provided the right hold is used. The trigger is creepy in stage 2, but it’s not hard to get used to. The rifle has reasonable power, a nice appearance and is a rifle I would recommend.
BB
So the scope still focuses sharp at the high power setting?
And I have to ask this. How many shots do you think you have through this gun now? Do you think its broke in fully yet.
It seems like some spring guns will break in quick and start grouping good. Then there is some that may take a 1000 shots then they all of a sudden just start dropping one pellet on top of another.
Do you think that’s a possibility of why the flyer’s could of happened?
Then have you ever noticed that after the spring gun gets broke in you can go back and try a pellet that wasn’t working and now groups good.
From what I see with a spring gun is you have to give them a chance to get wore in. That is what breaking in means you know.
Gunfun,
Thanks for sharing some of your thoughts on (break-in) and (accuracy). I do not see comments on those topics,….combined,..very often.
As for me, I am close the 1000 mark with the TX. Of the 4 original pellets I have shot, the groups, (all recorded), have gotten better. I would attribute it more to me learning to shoot better, then I would break in.
I do suppose though that some it is break-in as well. It would be cool to see that, “all of the sudden, they start dropping one on top of the other”, scenario happen.
One thing I can say,…I am getting more and more groups where 3 pellets do land on top of one another. Odd enough, they are almost always consectutive. Always exciting when I can do that.
Chris
Chris,
You are starting to touch on “The Zone”. You are learning to relax, to feel, to be. You are beginning to learn the TX and how you need to be to get the most out of it.
I used to be able to do some phenomenal shooting the CFX I had. I remember one day when I shot 4 consecutive 10 shot groups at 25 yards with 4 different pellets that would each literally hide under a dime. I could regularly do that with one particular pellet, but to do that with 4 different pellets? I became so excited I could not shoot worth a diddly the rest of the day.
As BB said above, if you only shoot one air rifle, you become attuned to it’s nuances and soon you can take it into “The Zone”.
Keep at it Dude.
RR,
Thanks for the words of support and your insight on your experiences.
And wow, that’s some good shooting ! And yes, it’s easy to get excited when you get some really good groups. Way to hold your nerve ! 10 shot groups no less !
My swelled head would’nt go down for a week if it were me. 😉
Chris
Mine still has not gone down and it has been four years now.
RR,
No reply needed, all I wanted to say is ” I hoped you framed it “. I know I would have,….at least untill a better 25 yd., 4 pellet, 10 shot, dime grouping came along.
Even get one of those really nice 5$ frames to put it in…. 😉
Chris, USA
Getting use to a gun is a big factor. And like you said you will start seeing the groups trying to cluster together.
And I have shot a fair amount of spring guns and nitro piston guns. And I definatly can say that break in has something to do with grouping.
Some guns would try to throw the pellets everywhere and I kept using the same hold. As I would shoot the groups would start getting better. Then stabilize and produce the same size groups pretty much everytime out.
Then there was the LGU. That gun came right in. Its almost like it had a pre-break in done from the factory. It thew some flyer’s in the first 30 shots then stared making pellet touch groups from there on out.
My HW50s I had took I bet 1200 or so shots before it started repeating itself.
The TX I got was a little picky at first. It got good after a few hundred then I put that tune kit in and done some other things with the tune and its definatly on the money.
But the reason I bring the break in period up in regard to accuracy I believe that sometimes people don’t give the gun a chance to stabilize the components inside the gun. And I think sometimes that they throw out a certain pellet during break in and think its the pellet choice.
I have came back and shot pellets that I thought was not good while the break in was hapoening then after the gun stabilized that pellet worked. Maybe it wasn’t as good as another pellet the gun liked but it shot better than when the gun wasn’t broke in yet.
That’s like when tuning a spring gun. You have to give the gun a chance after the tune to see what the true results will be. Bottom line it takes time.
Gunfun1,
Again, great info.
Not so much any specifics, but just the “general idea” of what you can/might expect with the added effort to “break in a gun”. And, give it time.
On the TX,…what are your thoughts on increasing the power. With your knowledge of tuning, what power increase could ever be (realistically) expected? If it’s doing 750,..is 900 out of the question? Maybe it could be, but,..the shot cycle would be harsh?
A (very general reply) is all I am looking for. I know tunes are used to “smooth” a gun, but I do not recall to much attention being given to power increases. If fact,..sometimes the opposite,..a de-tune.
P.S. ( get the country house?)
Chris
Chris, USA
I can’t how many times I have said this. Power isn’t everything. Not just air guns but race cars too.
You can make all the power you want in a car but if you can’t put the power to the ground what good is it.
Well I kind of think that way with air guns. What good is all that power if you can’t hit the target. The trick is to have the right amount of power for the shooting you want to do.
When I tune a springer I try to reduce the vibration and recoil the gun makes. If the gun increases in velocity after the tune and it shoots smooth then great that is a bennifit.
The way I see it the smoother the gun shoots the less I have to worry about how to hold it and the more chance I have to get the barrel pointed the same every shot.
I don’t want to have to worry about how the gun performs. I want to worry about how I perform.
And got to get up tomorrow morning and go talk about some more things with that house where trying to get. I think where getting closer this time around. Tomorrow is D Day. We shall see tomorrow.
GF,
Yes, I pretty much know how you think when it comes to tunes.
I was just “putting it out there” and wanted to get your input.
No need to reply, we can talk more on the weekend or some other time.
Good luck on the house,…sounds like your still “in the game”. Bought a few myself. What a pain ! Not to mention the moving.
Let’s just say,…I don’t drag home a bunch of “junk” anymore. Am happy here though and don’t plan to move.
Chris
Chris, USA
By the way. You ask what a person wants our thinks about a gun and pellets and performance.
What do you want from your TX ?
Chris,USA
I can reaffirm everything GF1 has said about break in and the gun coming into its own break in with more pellets being shot as I have been tuning on my B40 which is a TX clone and have tried four different seal and three springs to try and get the velocity I would like as well as the accuracy and it has been a huge learning curve.
I believe I have found the right combo now and just need to shot a good bit more to continue testing to see if it gives me the velocity and accuracy I am after.
GF1 has been helping me make decisions along the path to my goal and it has been getting closer with every step.
I would also like to second the vote for him to get the house so when my disability is approved after my April 22nd hearing I can come and see him and we can shoot together at his new ranch home.
BD
Buldawg
Thanks.
But has not been all me. We have exchanged info back and forth on many things. And I do believe it is paying off.
As they say two heads are better than one.
Yes and I hope tomorrow the meeting goes well with the house.
It sure will be nice to shoot without anybody around to interrupt.
And as I said before you better stop by if your in my kneck of the woods.
Gunfun
You are welcome as you have been more help than you realize.
You are right it has been a collaboration on the tuning of the B40 but it is better to have two heads than one as we both thought of different thing that could be causing the issues I was having.
I hope the meeting go as it should tomorrow since it sound like he is willing to compromise to get it occupied and at least you have some guarantees just make sure it is ALL in writing.
Not to worry as if my disability is approved and I get some bills caught up and the wife a newer car we will be up your way and I will let you know so you can take some vacation time so we can shoot till we are cross-eyed LOL
BD.
Buldawg
Your going to have to rent you a little enclosed trailer to pull behind you when make it out this way. That way you can bring all those guns we talk about all the time.
And heck maybe take a drive down to the local dragstrip and see who’s out there running. Its at the most about 9 miles from the new house. And matter of fact we will go past the farm I grew up on when I was a kid.
I could see a few late nights ahead of us if you make it up.
🙂
Gunfun
I got a GMC extended cab long bed truck so it can carry all the guns and my kawi or Harley or both. with room to spare.
it would be cool to go to the local dragstrip to see what is running. Do they have a test and tune every Friday night like our local strip does and it cost ten bucks to get in and you can run what you brung as many times as you want.
I would like to see where you grew up and yes there would be many a late nights I believe as we are both night owls although for different reasons.
I cannot say when it will happen yet but hopefully by years end.at least.
BD
Buldawg
Tuesday and Wednesday has been test and tune nights. Friday they usually run trophy and jack pot which is bracket racing. I always did jack pot because that is the money running.
The Tuesday night was heads up test and tune street cars. Wednesday was heads up D.OT. street cars and slick cars. Wednesday night was for the more serious cars and bikes.
Speaking of bikes you could bring that Kaw down along with those air guns if you got the extra room in your truck.
😉
Gunfun
its got the wheel chock bolted in the bed so it just a matter of getting it in the truck and strapped down for the ride.
We can arrive any time that it best for you as my schedule is wide open and very flexible.
The bracket and money racing here is Saturday nights and its 1/4 mile not 1/8 mile track.
Buldawg
Our track is 1/4 mile.
But they do host some 1/8 mile events.
They even got a figure 8 drift track set up and you run one car at a time for like 3 laps I believe it is for the fastest time.
And there is a NASCAR rgukation circle track. With a road race course in the middle of the track. They now have what they call a Kart Plex where they road race go karts. That is something I have wanted to try. But haven’t. I would say that would be a cool ride at a hundred miles an hour and only 2 inches off the ground.
Gunfun
That sounds like a cool track to have so many different types of events at one location.
The dragstrip here is just a dragstrip, but over at the superspeedway there is a short track dirt racing and a go kart dirt track right behind it so when Nascar is at Talladega there is short course dirt racing and go kart dirt racing going on as well.
Growing up my friends dad work at Gruman aerospace up in new York for years then moved to Florida but he had built two go karts with scrap aluminum from work that weighed 40 pounds less the motor and like you say were two inches off the ground, He had McCullough 15 HP two strokes motors on them and they would do 90 mph and he would let my friend and me ride them up and down the street he lived on and they were like miniature rocket ships. his dad would get in them and do 360 spins at 70 to 90 mph up and down the street and they would never even attempt to flip over but he did not let us ride them much because the cops finally showed up and told him that he needed to go to a track to run them or he would be in jail as some of the other neighbors complained .
BD
Gunfun1,
What do I want out of it? I guess, simply put, (as much as possible) in all areas. Accuracy and power and a smooth shooter.
Chris, USA
For what type of shooting?
One certain type or multiple uses?
Do you think the Tx will fill those roles that you want? Or could there possibly be another gun in the future?
Gunfun,
Grond hog and target at 25~30 yds. ( plus the winter time indoors at 41′ )
Another gun? Maybe,..but as you know,…I still need to “stretch it legs” as you say. No tune untill that is well done.
I was just curious if +150 was possible or if it’s out of the question. If a tune would only get 50,..then I might not even consider it.
Although, +50 and smoother might be worth it, but you know the TX is smoother than most “as is”.
Chris, USA
I never give fps increase a thought when I tune.
Or decrease for that fact.
I tune to make it a easier shooting gun.
GF,
Ok, will keep that in mind. Time to work. See you in the next blog.
Thanks, Chris
Chris, USA
Yep.
GF1,
Well, that is going to be in tomorrow’s blog, because I want to report on the scope as soon after using it as I can.
B.B.
BB
Good I want to know what you see.
Or should I say what you think the scope makes you see. 😉
BB,
I find it disturbing that the point of impact of your pellets changed so dramatically with the change in power of the scope, most especially with one in this price range.
RR,
Maybe it didn’t. Wait for tomorrow.
B.B.
I was interested in this because I wanted to see how it stacked up compared with the UK Supersport I had for some years, they are a bit too light to be a tack driver but it was as good or better than any other lightweight spring gun I’ve owned…..I’m really seeing a total relationship between weight and accuracy in spring rifles, I would love to see a blog where you take a rifle like this and weight it somehow to AA TX200 levels and see what happens to hold sensetivity and overall accuracy….sadly for the limper wristed amongst I suspect that about 11 lbs scoped will beat 8 lbs hands down with the same action
As for zero wandering about as you increase mag, I have a couple of scopes that do this, but I’m convinced they shouldn’t….I have two Nikko Sterling 4-12x50AO mil dot scopes, one of which doesn’t and the other does….and it doesn’t seem to be a stiction thing, the one that does it then holds it’s rezero fine…it’s an odd phenomenon because it’s a completely different lens group you are adjusting…..but it definitely happens.
I have a couple of Nikko 6x40AO mil dots too, the clarity afforded by the less complex internals and the simplicity of a decently fixed zero and lighter weight warms me to them more and more………these days we are getting so many features for our buck in a scope that something somewhere has to give I guess.
I’ve had cheaper scopes that changed point of impact when the zoom was adjusted, but something in this price range should not. Definitely a quality scope no-no. From what I remember, I think it depends on the position of the variable zoom lens within the overall scope lens arrangement. Of course, poor tolerances and actual lens or reticle shifting during zoom adjustment could cause the same problem.
Also got to say that the Godfather’s got some pretty steady hands to be able to hold solidly on target at 32X zoom.
And yet another springer that has to be held a certain way. I currently own two springers, one that is moderately hold sensitive and one that is extremely hold sensitive and that I still havent completely figured out yet. While I know that some are hold-agnostic, like B.B.’s fave TX200, I’m becoming less and less enamored with springers as time goes on. Next major purchase will be a PCP, methinks. B.B., wasn’t there some talk of a Marauder vs. Talon SS showdown comparison test? I’ll be waitin’!
HiveSeeker,
A Marauder versus the Talon SS? I don’t remember talking about that. I am currently testing a Talon SS against a very accurate Ruger 10/22. I shot both of them last week and I am hoping to get in more groups this week. It’s turning out to be a very surprising test.
I think if I were to pit the Marauder against anything it would be a Hatsan AT44-10 Long QE.
B.B.
Thanks, B.B.–I found your comment comparing the two (and saying the Talon SS is consistently more accurate than the Marauder) in an older blog. That’s what I must have been remembering.
I was checking out the Aeon scopes and noticed something unusual with their trajectory reticle. The verticle hash mark spacing below the horizonal axis is not evenly spaced. I understand that this is supposed to repersent the projecticle drop being greater with distance but, look at the number of hash marks between the horizonal axis line and the line marked number 1. This distance is divided into 7 parts. Look at it closely. You can see what appears to be the the half way point between 0 and 1 but, what about the distance between that half way point and number 1.
Everything else about this trajectory reticle seems to be evenly divided and makes sence. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?
Joe,
This was drawn by Pyramyd Air’s former photographer. She had a very keen eye and drew exactly what she saw when she looked thru the scope. As a comparison, I looked at the reticle on Aeon’s site. If you enlarge that image, you can see that the same spacing issue exists there (even though it gets kind of blurry). I just wanted to point out that the reticle appears to be an accurate representation of what you’ll see when you look through the scope.
Edith
That is probably so you can call your up to zero and your down away, like you said at further range the drop is faster for the same 5 or 10 yards.
Hey Hive Seeker, when will we see the rest of your guest blog on your Crosman custom shop 22xx guns? I am looking forward to seeing your report on their accuracy.
Joe,
I have Part 6 in the works.
B.B.
Thanks in advance, B.B. I know I’m putting you through your paces!
Now that I see a photo of the scope and mount together, the mount looks very undersized and too flimsy to stabilize a scope, especially on a springer. It would be hard to be sure without testing with a solid, one-piece mount for comparison. The bullseye mount and its design with the cantilever section hanging off each end just looks like it will flex too much.
Plus, it says “BULLSEYE” in bold right on the side of it. That kind of projective optimism seems to me to belong more on a BB gun rather than an adult air rifle. I’m interested in seeing your report on it.
B.B.
Thanks for a very interesting article. I can hardly wait for your Aeon scope and Diana Bullseye RR Scope Mount articles. In the “real world” would you ever want that powerful a scope on such a light weight air rife? Do you think that the scopes lack of length and real time light weight contributed to its lack of zero hold at different magnifications.
Are you supposed to zero at max magnification? With that scope mount, can us use a non-airgun rated scope on an air gun? Won’t the scope mount move a bit every time you adjust the scope? Does the scope mount return to zero?
Thanks again!
Yogi,
I would like to talk about the scope in tom,orrow’s blog.
B.B.
Could you touch on if scopes break in?
RDNA,
That’s the first time I ever heard that question.
I will address it in tomorrow’s blog.
B.B.
RifledDNA,
I have thought the same thing, but never asked. If no, then why not? If yes, then why?
A pure guess,…but if lubes of any type are used, then it might be a matter of temperature.
Good question!
Chris
BB,
I am a fan of the UK made BSA Supersports. My favorite springer, and the gun I have shot the most out of all my airguns, is an early BSA Supersport Lightning. I don’t feel it gives up anything to larger guns like the R9 or R1 in accuracy. I love how light weight the Supersport is. It is an R7 sized gun with R9 power. I shoot my Supersports partially supported by a tripod and partially supported with my hand under the forearm. I find that for me follow through is the key to accuracy. It is hard for me to resist wanting to raise my head and look at the target but I have to keep my head down to shoot accurately.
I am sure it works OK, but that Diana recoiling scope mount looks unstable. I would rather use a BKL one piece scope mount with 6 clamping screws on my Supersports.
David Enoch
David,
On 2/20/14, I received an email from BSA’s managing director in the UK. I’d asked him a question about another BSA springer. He wrote back that only the BSA PCPs are made in the UK, and all springers and gas-piston BSA guns are made in Barcelona, Spain, and that’s where I should direct all my spring gun inquiries. I looked at the Supersport SE Tom is testing, and it says BSA Guns UK in 2 places. I’ve sent another email to BSA in the UK to see if the Supersport SE is an exception or if there’s something else I’m missing. Nowhere on the gun or the box does it say anything about being made or assembled in Spain.
Edith
David,
So, I asked BSA about the origin of all their springers, and this is the reply I just got back from Simon Moore, Managing Director:
All BSA Spring guns are manufactured in Spain. The barrel is manufactured in UK but the final assembly is completed in Spain.
Edith
Hi Ms. Edith,
You just brought up a point which was puzzling me too. You see we have a local agent for Hatsan here. My friend wants to add the 135 to his arsenal. When I went there to check it out, they had the 125 but it wasn’t stamped made in Turkey on the breech block or anywhere for that matter. They didn’t give me a straight answer & that got me annoyed cos the price they wanted was double the price with shipping that Pyramyd AIR sells for. But they said its original. I wrote to Hatsan about this as their ads say that all their guns are from Turkey. I asked if they had a different standard for Asia & if so it wasn’t fair as we expect the real deal for the price. This was 4 days ago & I haven’t received a word yet. They usually give prompt replies. Wonder if they too are in the Chinese trap? Do you think you can get this info for me? Believe me, I would order a good airgun from Pyramyd AIR if not for the import restrictions in our country. I want to be sure before I spend my friend’s hard earned money. He’s abroad & wants me to buy it for him.
Errol
Errol,
Hatsan may source some raw materials from other countries, but they’re machining, fabricating, assembling and shipping guns from their plant in Turkey. Here’s a quote from their 2015 catalog:
“This family owned and operated Turkish manufacturer maintains a hands-on approach – producing all designs and components in-house to ensure each product deserves to bear the Hatsan name.”
If there’s a dealer who will not answer customer inquiries regarding the country of origin of the product, then maybe it’s a knock-off & the country of origin isn’t Turkey. We saw several knock-offs of well-known airguns at the last SHOT Show, so I wouldn’t dismiss that possibility too quickly.
Edith
Errol,
One more thing. Hatsan may not have answered you back because they were at the IWA show in Germany. That’s the European version of the SHOT Show. While the show has been over for a while, many times the people involved are traveling to other countries as long as they’re away and conducting business. Personally, I wouldn’t buy a gun from a dealer if I couldn’t (1) verify where it’s made and (2) see the country of origin written on the gun.
Edith
Ms. Edith
Thank you so much for the prompt reply. You echo my sentiments exactly about buying a gun. I don’t mind paying more if I’m sure of getting the best & the original. This dealer has been in operation for 70 years they proudly proclaim,but, they can’t give a straight answer to a prospective customer. I will not buy unless Hatsan clarifies & I hope they do.I’m also going to check with the authorities here on the possibility of importing an airgun as I heard there may be exceptions to the rule.
Errol
Edith,
I spent a year in Turkey from 1967-1968 while in the military. While there, I took a tour of the local prison, the inmates manufactured rugs, furniture and of all things, shotguns! At that time, Turkish civilians could own shotguns and I believe handguns (it has been awhile) but definitely no rifles.
Bugbuster
Off topic
Hi BB and friends
Can you tell where the caliber of Daisy Buck Model 105 is engraved/printed on the gun itself.
Thanks
Zooter,
Welcome to the blog.
Are you sure the caliber is printed on the gun? I don’t recall seeing calibers printed on folded metal guns that shoot steel BBs, though that is just my memory. I don’t have a Buck to look at.
B.B.
Hi BB
Its not in my hand but at the clearance desk and i need to prove the cal . They said on phone they cannot ascertain as they cannot find where its printed/engraved.
Anyone have an idea?
Thanks
Zooter,
If it’s a new gun, the caliber and ammo are clearly marked in the owner’s manual
You can see that manual online here:
/airgun-resources/manuals/daisy_buck_air_rifle_manual.pdf
B.B.
BB,
I have a BSA Polaris .177 (1000 rounds shoots great), I e-mailed BSA about its origin and production date. It was made in Spain and discontinued in 2012. I was happy to find one (new) this past fall. I have enjoyed all the comments on the BSA product line and I hope it continues. Your review on the Polaris was the reason that I wanted one and I will not part with mine.
I also hope you publish your books.
Thanks for the education,
Bill.
I’d really like to see this gun be able to consistently group around a 1/2″ at 25 yards. It doesn’t weigh too much, has nice classic lines, lots of metal and wood, generates fpe in my favorite springer range and doesn’t cost an arm and a leg.
Looking at B.B.’s groups I see the infamous two groups within a group that springers are famous for.
I don’t remember reading whether the pivot bolt is adjustable. If it is then I check this first when I see two groups within a group. If it’s not adjustable then the gun will almost always shoot two groups within a group.
If the pivot bolt is snug, I check the rest of the screws on the gun including the mount. If that doesn’t tighten the group I check the scope for parallax especially a new scope I’ve mounted and may have forgotten to adjust the ocular. If that doesn’t tighten the groups I clean the barrel. If that doesn’t tighten the groups I have a beer.
kevin
Kevin,
The barrel is plenty tight. I feel if I spent some time with this rifle I could get rid of those pellets outside the main group.
B.B.
B.B.,
Nice to have a springer sitting in the corner, waiting to be shot, that isn’t very hold sensitive isn’t it? 😉
kevin
Kevin,
Whatever (R8) do you mean? 😉
B.B.
Way off topic, but just a question to throw out to the group: What are anyone’s opinions on the new synthetic vs. the old wood stock Marauder? I’ve lurked here a lot, and patiently waited for a synthetic Marauder to arrive. Meanwhile, I got a Discovery & played a little, learning about PCPs. When the synthetics arrived, so did some new camera gear, and the new gun got pushed back a bit. Now, however I’ve found a local store with a close out price on wood stock Marauders for $399, in .22 cal., too. So does anyone like/hate their wood/synthetic Marauder $130 worth? And, if not, I’ll be posting a like new Discovery, with extras, soon.
If your brush hunting, synthetic, if target shooting and never in the rain, cherish a wood and oil that baby up! Not on marauders but just general narrow it down rule..
Triggerjerk,
I’ve shot a wood stock marauder and a synthetic stock marauder. Never owned either.
The wood stock felt like a 2 x 4 in my hands. If I had a wood stocked marauder I would shave down the forearm and rework the cheek piece to suit me.
The synthetic stock on the marauder felt trimmer and certainly weighs less than the wood stock version. Really like the adjustable cheek piece on the synthetic stock.
Pyramyd AIR says this about the action in the synthetic stocked marauder:
“Upgrades from the original version of the gun: Factory-installed depinger changes the sharp “ping” to a dull thud. Improved valve (increases the number of shots: .177/.22=32 shots, .25=16 shots). Trigger moved back for better hand position. Optional reversible bolt for left- or right-handed shooters. Simplified breech design for assembly, service and to provide a more stable platform for larger scopes.”
For these reasons alone I would buy a synthetic stocked marauder over the wood stocked version.
kevin
Triggerjerk,
It took me a while to find one at a reasonable price but I couldn’t wait to get a custom wood stock on my Marauder. I also dislike very much the original Marauder wood stock. Otherwise, the rifle is pretty good. Not good enough for competitive target shooting (although I’ve seen some people try). I think the rifle is meant for hunting anyway, not target shooting.
The new wood stock I bought makes shooting the gun much more enjoyable but it did not improve accuracy any. I hope this helps.
G&G
As a couple of posters have mentioned, that mount is suspect. I wouldn’t be confident of results using a moving mount. The raiIs on a $100 product are not going to be vault-tight. In fact, they can’t be, if you expect movement. The classic 1911 conflict: accuracy versus reliability. A couple thousandths, and there’s another flier.
SteveInMN,
You aren’t the first to mention this possibility. Several readers agree this movement is suspect. I think I have to test it in some way.
B.B.
B.B. Really enjoyed your two articles in the March 20 issue of ShotGun News ( what a benign title..it is full of AR 7 inch barrel conversions, machine guns and handguns, ,most of which California would send you to jail if you bought them ! ) The Walther PCP and the article on the great air guns available today. I learned a great deal reading the Watther PCP piece about scopes, scope mounts, cocking efforts, etc. Stuff i thought i knew..Nope ! And, sixteen color pictures, even of the groups you shot ! Outstanding !…
Pete Hallock
Orcutt, California
Pete,
Thanks for that. We are now putting my old Shotgun News articles and columns on my website
http://www.thegodfatherofairguns.com
So more people can read them.
B.B.
That’s great. I didn’t even know that you had your own website.
Matt61
B.B. Wonderful to have your web site reports.. – I thought that ShotGun News needed a plug also.
They are the ones that I trust paid you. I also assume you have their blessings.
Thank you Tom and Edith, every Monday ~ Friday, my first mug on Dark Roast is enjoyed with your wonderful efforts.
Pete
Orcutt, California
B.B. My short term memory is now down to nanoseconds. The Walther is the LGU Underlever your excellent article reviewed.
Best wishes and my apology !
Pete
Looks like a nice rifle and that is indeed an astonishingly small size for such a large scope. My 56mm objective scope from Leapers looks gigantic by comparison, but I must say that the long scopes have a cool factor. The quality of the gun does make me wonder about consumer intentions. Despite the guns quality, I wouldn’t choose it over the very best guns of its class like the TX200. So why should someone else? What keeps all these second tier guns going? Maybe ignorance of the blog although circumstances and preferences probably play some role.
As another aside to B.B.’s archive of Shotgun News, one of the first gun publications I ever read in early high school was Shotgun News, and I was in awe about so much fascinating info gathered together.
G&G, yes I am planning on a CZ firearm pistol, not an airgun pistol. And I already have picked out the model. It will be some version of the CZ 75 which I am already enjoying in my mind where it might remain for some time… This does raise an interesting question about airguns that are firearm look-alikes. That is a personal preference. While I am very interested in both firearms and airguns, the look-alikes have never struck a chord with me. Perhaps the dual interest is why. What I like are individual best instances, the best firearms and the best airguns, without wanting one in terms of another. One notable exception is the Crosman 1077 which is so amazing and so close to the 10/22 that there is no need for the firearm.
Matt61
Matt61,
Have you seen the new 1077 in a wood stock? I’ve already pre-ordered it.
G&G
B.B.,
This is off topic except that it is about a springer. I saw on Giles’ Airgun Gear Show that Walther is now offering the LGV in the LGU stock and selling at the same price as the LGU. I suppose you know about this? Do you think it will offer any advantage? Just curious.
G&G
G&G,
That would be a step in the wrong direction for me. Too much wood.
B.B.
B.B.,
Why would it be more wood than the LGU stock? They said the same stock, not a modified one. Or do you know that’s impossible?
G&G
G&,
You said they were going to put the LGV into the LGU stock. I said that would be a mistake because the LGU stock has more wood than the LGV stock.
B.B.
BB, In a previous blog you mentioned that BSA was one of the tougher brands to work on? Why is that? Have you had any experience with the Polaris?
Thanks for the help, working on airguns seems almost as much fun as shooting them.
Bill.
Bill,
BSA’s aren’t put together as logically as other rifles. They are odd and somewhat fiddly, and steeped in 1950s design.
B.B.
BB,
Forgot to ask, is the spring preload for the Polaris strong enough to need a spring compressor?
thanks, Bill
Bill,
I haven’t taken one apart, but I would assume so.
B.B.
I suspect there may need to be a follow-up test… Of that recoil-proof scope mount.
Something like clamping the airgun into a gun vise; aligning the vise et al on a target at high magnification…
THEN some how simulate recoil (pull the scope back and let go so the mount returns it to the front?) and seeing how well it returns to the alignment. Any slop in the rails would affect group size.
{And yes — I fell of the face of the earth for the last week+ so haven’t bothered trying to catch up… And can’t promise keeping up… When all you people post 130+ messages in a 24-hour period it gets difficult — after all, I’ve also got email, and four or five active Usenet groups that I follow)
Wulfraed
I was wondering where you were.
5 places you follow. 1 place is enough for me.
And yes the scope mount needs to be tested. I really believe its not going to do its best on a gun that doesn’t have some sort of recoil device like the 54 Air King and 300s have.
Kind of interested to see how this mount turns out.
Gunfun
You know as well as I do that for the scope mount to absorb any recoil of any amount regardless of what gun it is mounted on there has to be enough clearance on the rails it moves on to allow for that movement.
That in its self means inaccurate since there is no way for the price that the mount sells for that it will return to the exact same position every time.
Now if it had roller bearing supported shafts that it moved forward and back on that were made to a tolerance of .0005″ I would say it may hold its accuracy. But when you have just two pound bars moving in an aluminum cradle there has to be no less than 1 or 2 thousands of an inch clearance for it to even move freely enough to work as it was designed to and that much clearance when multiplied out to 25 plus yards means inconsistent point of impact every shot no matter how you slice it.
For that mount to be consistent in its movement to be limited to only complete horizontal motion it has to have the shafts supported in a very close tolerance bearing in the area of .0005′ clearances and that precise of a system could not be made for the 100 buck price of this mount.
So while it is a novel idea in its approach to solve a problem that has been a problem for years hardened steel rod sliding in aluminum with any amount of side loads applied to the rods means accelerated wear and therefore more clearances with every shot taken and even larger groups of flyers with every shot.
BD
Buldawg
I have my doubt’s about the mount.
Gunfun
I looked for reviews on the mount on other forums and it is being put thru the ringer by several pro FT shooters and one being Hector Medina so in a few months we will know for sure if it is indeed a good mount. One statement in the yellow forum stated the it had a conical male/ female joint at the front of the sliding rods on the mount so that it would in fact return to the exact same location after every shot.
Then another post said that used on his 20 cal 54 that would kill a Bushnell trophy scope within 50 shots made it possible for the same scope to last for 500 shots. Another post stated that they were able to shoot 1/2 inch groups at 38 yards with the mount on a 54 but did not state which caliber. So time will tell but I still feel that for the 100 buck price it may work for a while but will eventually wear and start to go south.
BD
B.B.
Thank you for concluding your review (Part 4/4) of the BSA Supersport SE. I was puzzled by the shot grouping results with a scope (somewhat upscale also) when compared to the groupings you were able to achieve with the open sights and so little experience with that particular airgun rifle. I mean that not being your only rifle you are accustomed to shooting.
As others here have raised the question…could that ‘new fangdangle’ mount have anything to do with those erratic groupings ? But that’s another issue and as suggested by some, might be the topic of another in-depth review.
In my case my newly acquired .22 cal SuperSport SE ‘GRT’ version (yes, Gas Ram Technology) will remain scopeless for a while still. Haven’t figured out what I’m going to mount until I’ve gone through the ‘break-in’ period and gotten also to see which of the pellets you had tried will prove best in my rifle and at what maximum range will I be achieving consistent groups.
I don’t come here often…but when I do I always enjoy the read and learn a lot.
Cheers!
HawkEye
HawkEye,
I don’t know if the Bullseye mount had anything to do with those groups, but I will be testing it to find out. I will also be testing that scope again, to see if that was a problem.
I think the SE is just a spring rifle that’s very sensitive to hold, which is how most spring rifles are. The groups shot with open sights were shot at 10 meters, which is 11 yards. The groups shot with the scope were shot at 25 yards. Some of the difference is due to shooting at more than twice the distance.
B.B.