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Daisy 1894

What I got for Christmas

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by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier

Good morning and Happy Day After Christmas. I thought today that we could all share some of the special gifts we got for Christmas. I know some of you don’t celebrate Christmas; but from the comments, I can see that many of you have been rewarding yourselves with holiday gifts, nonetheless. So, join in if you want.

My first gift
The first gift of the season was a Sears BB gun that’s an 1894 model made by Daisy. My brother-in-law, Bob, picked it up in an antique store. It doesn’t work, but I read online that these often do go bad after storage for several years. I’ll attempt repairs on my own; but if I’m not successful, I’ll probably get another working 1894, because I know many of our readers really love this gun. It was Daisy’s first Spittin’ Image BB gun, with production starting in 1961 and continuing until 1986. This variation was made for Sears from 1969 until 1973. One way or another, you’ll probably be reading a review of the 1894 Daisy in 2015.

Daisy 1894
My Daisy 1894 is a variation sold by Sears.

What B.B. wanted
This year, I asked for an M40 Swedish Lahti 9mm pistol — the Swedish Luger. I’ve known about this gun for several decades and been fascinated by the background. It’s a Swedish military handgun made from steel that isn’t up to the task, because of wartime shortages. It has a bolt accelerator that turns out not to be needed because the cold doesn’t affect semiautomatic handgun operation quite as much as the Swedes feared. So many of the accelerators were removed, so the bolts wouldn’t crack the receivers from too much speed. It’s said to be very accurate; but, as always, I’ll be the judge of that — with you looking over my shoulder.

You actually saw this gun a few days ago in my report on why guns wear out and break. I used a photo from Gun Broker, since at the time I had not opened my present.

Lahti
I’ll test my new Lahti M40 pistol for you next year.

A gun I didn’t ask for, indeed did not know I was getting, was given to me by a combination of my wife, Edith, and friend Otho. It’s a Mossberg model 42M-B .22 rifle. That would be nice enough, but this one says United States Property in 2 different places. And while that is wonderful, this rifle has one additional feature. It also has British proof marks, because this rifle was loaned to the United Kingdom on the Lend-Lease program! So, this little .22 has a bundle of history attached to it.

Mossberg
This Mossberg rifle was U.S. property and was loaned to the UK during WWII.

I’ll review all of these guns for you in the coming year, so don’t fret — they’re coming. But, now, I’m going to turn over the blog to you. Tell us what you got this year!

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
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210 thoughts on “What I got for Christmas”

  1. But, now, I’m going to turn over the blog to you. Tell us what you got this year!

    Probably the only thing that would be marginally relevant here would be a Mora 510 that I bought as a present for myself. Well that and “The Outdoor Survival Handbook” by Ray Mears.

  2. The 1894 was my first BB gun. I had a NRA annavercery addition and another one that was black with a hex barrel . That one I called my buffalo gun. Don’t know why. I want one now and will probably get a Walther lever action someday.
    For Christmas this year I got a Walnut Tx 200 mk3. I got it on your recommendation and I am thrilled.

      • The tx200 I got for field target. I am going to the nationals in NC in October. .177 walnut right hand. I have never seen a stock like this. Dark brown like my Brindle mastiff. So far it shoots 5mm groups at 10 meter with Crossman Premeres that I got at Wally World.

              • I wish I could say something constructive. I just took a break from 200 rounds. I LOVE THIS GUN. Anyone want to buy some used air rifles? Haha
                At this point the premers are really doing well. I tried some 8.4 Diabolo fields and did not have a real sight in. But everything even flyers are under a quarter.

                • Racer X
                  You don’t know how true that statement is. My most favorite springer’s I have right now is my TX and the Walther LGU. I just sold my hw50s and my 54 Air King to get a FX Monsoon. The only reason those two guns went was because of how much I like shooting the TX and LGU. Heck I find myself shooting them more than my .177 and .25 cal. Marauders. And I guess another reason was I had a Monsoon a while back and sold it and wished I didn’t.

                  My TX is tuned so it probably likes different pellets than yours. But I have good luck with the JSB 10.34’s. But let me know what your TX ends up liking. You know they all have different personality’s.

                  • Next purchase is a chronograph. But it sounds hot. Splatology says 900+. I put in 10.3 Diabolo fields and it liked them at ten meters. But I only have one tin so I will wait and keep shooting the premers.

                    • 10 meters is what your shooting at. I was going to ask what distance and forgot.

                      My TX took a little bit of time to break in. But it still shot pretty good even breaking in.

                      Well have fun with your gun. They are cool guns for sure.

                    • Rob
                      Just don’t do like I did. I wanted a TX for along time. I spent a lot of money trying different guns and saying to many times to myself I wish I would of got that TX.

                      Well I got it and believe me I’m glad. Then BB was doing the review on the LGU and got it and hoping it would be as good as the TX and it was.

                      So the best advice I can give is don’t waist your money on other guns if you really want one like I did.

                      We learn as we go. 🙂

                    • I’ll have to go with Gunfun1 on that one. At 50+, I have pursued many hobbies ,and as most, start out cheap and work your way up to the “holy grail”, hopefully.

                      Luckily I found this site and learned what made a gun “great”, BEFORE I spent a lot of money.

                      This time I think I will work my purchases in reverse, from the top down. Ordering the TXIII next week.

                    • Chris in Ct
                      Give me a few minutes and I will take a picture of mine and post them.

                      My TX is a right hand Beech and the LGU I think may be Walnut. Its got the wider grain. But it is what ever they offer. You don’t have a choice between Walnut or Beech with the LGU.

                      I will go take the pictures in a second.

      • RR
        Did you ever get a chance to try those JSB pellets yet?

        And I’m bumming a little bit. They sent my FX Monsoon by UPS and it went out Tuesday the 23rd. I guess they are closed for the holidays because now they changed the delivery date to Friday Jan. 2nd. instead of today. But you know what I sent the other 2 guns I’m trading in by FedEx to the same place the same day and they are on the truck for delivery today. Oh well I guess I will get it soon enough.

        The same with PilkGuns. They got that assembly today but they don’t open back up till Jan. 2nd. Well hopefully I will get it back quicker than if I had the parts shipped from FWB. They don’t open back up till the 7th. And another thing to wait on.

          • G&G
            I’m surprised you haven’t heard of them. http://www.pilkguns.com

            They are replacing the trigger latch and detent bar which is what we call the bear trap on the FWB 300s.

            They won’t sell the parts outright so I had to send the trigger assembly into them. I thought they could get it done quicker than waiting for the parts to come from Germany at the FWB plant.

            What’s a bummer about it all is the 2 parts are the simplest things that can be replaced in the trigger assembly. I can take both pieces out in probably 20 seconds and I’m serious. I just hope they don’t tell me when I call them January 2nd that they have to get the parts from FWB. They already got my trigger assembly so that will upset me if that goes on because I’m spending extra money that I would not of if I went through FWB and got the parts and done it myself. That’s what I don’t like about old stuff. Its cool to have but if it breaks then you just might be up a creek without a paddle. And its my fault for not waiting and wanting it to get done now.

            But anyway check out the website. It’s to do with airgun shooting.

            • Gunfun1,

              Just went to the Pilkgun site. Looks like lots of interesting stuff. It will be cool to see what air gunning looks like in another country. Saved to “favorites”. Thanks.

  3. In 1980’s England, the metal workshop that I worked in still had machinery that was marked Lend-Lease. I think most lend-lease equipment that survived the war never returned to the USA. Your Mossberg must have a very interesting history to have crossed the pond, undergone proving at one of our proof-houses, been used presumably as a training rifle in British Isles and then gone back home to the States. Many thanks to all those Americans who supported Britain in those wartime years, to those US service personnel who served here and a Merry Christmas to all American airgunners.

    • Ed,

      Welcome to the blog.

      You and I share the same fascination for these guns. I look at the British proof marks and the American property marks that I will show when I review this rifle next year, and I think about the trip it took. And why would a country that had just suffered through the blitz feel so compelled to return a lowly firearm? But they did!

      The organization it took to keep track of such small things at a time when the world was in total chaos astounds me. If you look on th Gun Broker auction website and enter the search term Lend lease, you will see several guns up for sale. Apparently the lend lease guns just about double in value over the base gun.

      B.B.

        • .22LR sniping was considered in Britain when under threat of invasion in 1940: (1) The Auxiliary Units were an organised resistance unit that would have started operating if Britain had been overrun by the Axis forces. One part of their operations would have been to carry out assassinations with .22LR rifles. I had always assumed that British made BSA or Greener rifles would have been used but perhaps that Mossberg was also intended for such purposes.
          (2) Legendary marksman and instructor, A.G. Banks, recounted in his one of his books that in 1940, the possibility of civilain marksmen using .22LR rifles to fire at German paratroopers was considered. I think the idea was that paratroopers take time to organise themselves and get to their weapons containers upon landing and the .22LR’s would have been a way for local civilians to pin the invaders down until regular British army units arrived. Such action is not entirely fanciful; in 1941, Cretan civilians used axes and sickles to butcher the invading German paratroopers before they had a chance to get out of their harnesses.
          Prosaically, the chances are the lend-lease Mossberg was used as a trainer but other possibilities cannot be ruled out.

  4. Way to go B.B. !!! The 1894 was my first b.b. gun as well. Beautiful design lines. Good luck on breathing some new life in the ‘ol girl.

    And way to go Racer X! (what cal.?) I too will be getting the TX200III, walnut, left, in .22, for tree rat and ground hogs. A bit like taking a “prom queen to a ho down” I suppose, but I just could not find anything thing else that would fit the bill for quality and my taste.

    I spent the entire day yesterday, (we had an early Christmas last Sat.), researching the TX200, as well as scopes, mounts, pellets, etc. Heads up on scopes, keep them in the 15″ or shorter or they will ride over the loading port, owners have said. I’ll be getting a Leapers UTG 3-12 X 44 A.O. which is 11.1″.

    I read every TX and .22 article I could find and even read ALL the customer comments on the P.A. site on the TX trying to find out .22 specifics, accuracy at diff. ranges, pellet choices, likes and dislikes, etc. Sufficient to say, there was little not to love about the TX.

    B.B.,…It would seem that you have had quite an impact on TX sales. While it would seem you are more into the .177/target scene, I believe you would be doing a huge service to those considering the TX .22 . After all, by the time you outfit it, your +/- 1000$, which is a huge investment for many of us. Maybe (1 simple test) with some chrony, pellet choices, and a 25yd. and 50yd. test just to see what it will do. Many comments even said that it got “boring” at 25-30 yds. due to its awesome accuracy. Just puttin’ it out there as an idea.

    Thank you and the best of the New Year to all!, Chris

    • Hoo-rah! That’s right, two different scenes to dance for! Precision and hunt. I got my airmag as an early present and a very nice bipod, and rifle case to keep them safe. My kids have no shortage of toy or clothing choice in their gifts and Im happy, it has been a great holiday.

            • Oh man, the gun loves it, its a heavy one and holding it still is tough, but the weight is good for using q bipod, and the bipod is heavy too, so the thing just sits solidly and doesn’t let it jump. The pod has some good flexibility too so holding just the shoulder stock up gently and pulling smoothly on the trigger lets it sway back with the shot, like a true artillery piece. Hit a 3/8ths 5 shot at 30yds the last group sighting it in. Nice out today so we’ll see if that can be replicated.

                • Jsb-15.89s, which I might have a good tin of too, unless they are all as consistent as this, I’ll be buying jsb as my first choice if so.. im sure they are. The baracuda extremes were doing pretty good at 5/8ths”, which if they keep doing I’ll be confident to hunt with em. That would be good because the jsb went through two layer of roofing shingles and a 1/4″ plywood dog shed (unused) roof after going through squirrel head… classically known as over-penetration, lol.

                  • RDNA
                    Just slight over penatration. 😉

                    And I like the JSB 15.89’s. They are my pellet choice for .22 cal. Air guns. I have got to many tins of them to count and haven’t had a bad tin yet. JSB has their act together for sure. Whatever their process maybe.

  5. This Christmas I indulged another hobby of mine. I bought a Canon 5Ti outfit so I can once again pursue nature photography. I am looking forward to going “hunting” again.

    • RR
      That was my dads other hobby besides his guitar making. He did the 35mm thing. I bet the digital cameras nowdays are pretty nice.

      Now you can take some pictures and share them on photobucket so we can see how that new camera works.
      😉

    • Hey, that’s my style of hunting as well! Other than walnuts and flies, when it comes to real game I like best to get it on film. I got a pentax K50 this Christmas… so I will be out there. Can’t be out there with a pellet gun. I live where is absolutely illegal. I did buy a Stoeger x20s .22 cause I thought it would be stealthy enough to shoot indoors and feed my fantasies that way, but it sounds a bit loud even for that.

      • Hey Rob,

        I have been thinking of the X20S for some time now. It is not a Weihrauch or an Air Arms, but it fits my budget better right now and I think I can tune it in to where it is pretty decent. I was going to buy one for Christmas, but the camera won out this year. I have been without a serious camera for a long time now and I sold some stuff around here and bought my wife and I our Christmas presents. I do have a couple of other airguns to keep me occupied for a bit anyway.

        For indoor shooting you need to take the power level way down. Maybe you should think of an IZH 60 or 61 or even BB’s favorite, the Bronco. PA has a couple of refurbished Broncos for $99.

        If you should decide to pass the Stoeger on, let me know.

        • Hey RR. Good to hear I’m not the only one who can’t afford an expensive gun right now.

          I was thinking seriously about trading the Stoeger for one of the guns you have mentioned exactly, probably the Bronco. Have you fired any of them? I kind of had decided to just stick with the Stoeger after I saw a video of the Bronco, also rated as a 2 on noise level, but it actually had a higher decibel rating than the Stoeger so I had kind of decided to keep the Stoeger.
          I will tell you that the Stoeger seems loud in your ear but when I stepped into the hallway to listen to it, it was actually pretty quiet compared to my Air hawk, 1322, 1377, and other guns (excepting my daughter’s bb guns).
          Funny how a gun can seem loud up close but really sound differently from a distance.
          Anyway, I’m going to use it, break it in, and then decide whether to keep it.
          Also, I will tell you. It scattered the shots with a traditional artillery hold, but likes being pulled back tight to make a pattern covered by a dime at 10 yards. .. As far as i can sit indoors right now. I will have access to a yard soon, so I will be able to test it at further distances then.

  6. Mrs, Gaylord,

    I have two questions for you. 1 Can you please explain to me how to post photos on this blog, taking into consideration that I am computer challenged? 2 Can you furnish me with an email or snail mail address so that I may contact Tom personally?

    Thank you in advance.

    Bugbuster

    • Yes, I have one. It has a choice of Red or Green light. There is a lot of adjustment so you can set it as bright or dim as you want. So far, everything is working well. I have only had it a couple months.

      Mike

      • Thank you.The product page says it has “36 color choices”, as well as the red and green. Not really sure why anyone would want that many choices as black, red and green would seem to fit the bill in most cases.

        It’s amazing what electronics can do these days!

        • Chris, USA,

          You are referring to the EZ Tap version of the Bugbuster, there is another model which only has the red/green illumination which I personally prefer also. I believe that 36 color choices is a little over the top, just more potential problems down the road, keep it simple! The scope is very nice and the supplied QD Picatinney/Weaver rings are excellent also! What do you plan on mounting it on?

          Bugbuster

          • Bugbuster,

            I will be mounting it on a TX200III that I will soon order. Besides the length restriction, I wanted single coated lenses, side adjust A.O., exposed adjustments and 30mm tube, all of which I read as being good things from my newbi research.

            Thank you, Chris

            • Chris,

              I have the non lighted version of this scope and really like it.

              /product/leapers-3-12×44-ao-swat-compact-accushot-rifle-scope-ez-tap?a=3429

              The standard length ones do have a clearer image than the compact scopes, so keep that in mind. I have seen the standard on mounted on a TX200, so I do not think the length will be that much of a problem.

            • I tell you what Chris,

              Get you either a BugBuster, SWAT Compact or a SWAT and try it out for a bit. If you decide you do not like it, contact me and I will buy it from you.

              Odds are if you pursue field target, you will end up wanting to take a step up in glass, however these scopes are a great buy for the price.

              • Wow, is there a lot to learn. “Step up” as in what? I’ve read that single coated optics are best and these are emerald coated. Their top scope has the same features as the one I’m looking at.

                • Chris, USA
                  Sounds like you got a plan there with that TX and all. I just got a few things to add.

                  I got a bug buster and its a nice little scope especially for the money. Then I had the 36 color EZ tap scopes also. I’m with Bug Buster with his comment about the 36 colors. Its just a little to much. Think about trying to find the right color when your little critter goes running off real quick.

                  And one last thing about the Hawke scope’s that I use with the 1/2 mildot reticle. When you start shooting at different distances or up in trees you will appreciate the more precision aim points that the 1/2 mildot reticle gives you.

                  And as far as scope setup goes that’s why I mentioned one resource being the Hawke Chair gun program. Once you take some time and get a little involved with it you will see alot of different things that affect scope set up.

                  But that’s just another fun part about air gunning. Have a fun day.

                • Oh yeah, there are much better scopes out there. You will pay more for them. As GF1 points out, Hawke scopes are nice and I hope one day to step up to them.

                  Forget reading this or that. The best way to find the scope for you is to look through them.

            • Chris, USA,

              I am a newbi to air guns also but not to shooting. My first was an RWS model 48 in .177 caliber which came as a combo with a Hawke 4-12X50 mm AO scope with an illuminated R/G Mil Dot reticule. I also ordered a Hawke 3-12X44mm AO Varmint series (no illumination) at the same time which has the half Mil Dot reticule and side focus. Both have 1″ tubes. I am really happy with the Varmint series although the lens caps are of horrible quality, especially the one on the objective lens, I love the side focus feature. I plan mounting it on my RWS 460 magnum in .22 caliber sometime in the near future.

              Personally, I don’t believe that a 30 mm tube is really necessary at airgun ranges, nor exposed turret adjustments, if you choose the proper reticule. Aesthetically, I believe that a UTG Bugbuster would be too small and a 30 mm scope unnecessarily large for your rifle. That is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions. If it makes you happy and not hurt anyone else, go for it!

              Bugbuster

              • I have yet to see any of the scope lens caps that I liked. Try a Butler Creek Scope Bikini. I would rather fool with these than those flippityfloppityslipoffthescopeandfalltothegroundcheaposcopecaps.

                Once you fool with the Bikini for a little bit, you figure out how to use it and it is not bad at all.

                • RidgeRunner

                  I’ll have to give those a try. I couldn’t believe how bad the objective lens cover was on the Hawke Varmint scope, it is almost as bad as trying to look through the bottom of a bottle, no way even close to optical quality. I had forgotten to open it one day and when closed, it is literally impossible to adjust the focus. I’m not crazy about the ones on my bugbuster either, it almost takes two men and a boy to open them.

                  Bugbuster

                  • Bugbuster,

                    Look at the scope tube diameter as a hallway. The wider the hallway, the more people can walk down it at the same time.

                    With a scope tube, the larger the diameter, the easier it is to transmit the light from one end to the other.

                    With the smaller tube, you need better lens quality to transmit as bright a picture the length of the scope as with a larger diameter. Now put the larger tube AND quality lenses together.

                    • RidgeRunner,

                      I agree with you in principle that all things being being equal, that a 30 mm tube will be brighter than a 25.4 mm (1″) tube. The only advantage would be when shooting in subdued light.

                      The diameter of the objective and erector lenses along with the magnification seem to control the diameter of the exit pupil which is your brightness. The larger the exit pupil, the brighter the image. The higher magnification in a variable power scope will reduce the diameter of the exit pupil and consequently reduce brightness, dramatically.

                      Supposedly, in the human eye, 7 mm is about the maximum usable exit pupil which decreases with age. This implies that an exit pupil above 7 mm is unusable and anything less decreases brightness. My eyes were pretty good up until my mid to late 50’s, at the present, I probably wouldn’t be able to take advantage of a brighter scope, others may.

                      Needless to say, the quality and multiple coatings of ALL the lenses within the scope is also paramount along with the alloy used in it’s construction. You get what you pay for, some of the time anyway.

                  • Bugbuster
                    I think those lens covers are for protection.

                    A lot of people put their holdovers on the cap lens when its flipped up. That way you have a quick reference of your hold for a given distance.

                    If you have that taped on the inside and your lens cover is closed then you won’t be able to see through it.

                    • Gunfun1,

                      Absolutely, they are there for protection for dust, dirt, rain and snow. I just figured that if they include transparent lens caps with the scope, they should be just that transparent, not translucent and unusable. They may just as well have been opaque, same difference.

                      That is a good idea about putting a holdover chart on the inside of the caps! Thanks for the tip.

                  • Bugbuster
                    Yep I would just as well have them solid black myself.

                    And I don’t know if you have ever went to the Hawke scope website and checked out their air gun specific Chaigun program. Its a free download on there website plus they also have a app available for phones.

                    Once you plug in your things like scope reticle, scope night and other things. One of the options is it will allow you to print out a scope cap reticle that has the holdovers marked by yards on the reticle.

                    There are obviously a lot of variables and the program is a reference. But pretty much everytime I used it it has been pretty dead on.

                    • Gunfun1

                      Yes, I did go to the chairgun website when I received my first Hawke scope. I found it very interesting and informative, unfortunately, unless I get my old Oehler model 33 chronograph up and running again or replace it, I am dead in the water. Got to have the actual MV from the actual AG with a specific pellet or you are just speculating as to the actual ballistics, otherwise it doesn’t work.

                      Have you ever used any of the copper plated pellets? I have not. What is your opinion of them?

                      From reading many of your blogs, know that you work in a machine shop, I did also, many years ago. Also, I gather that you have worked on government contracts, as have I in the past. Do you know the definition of an elephant? It is a mouse built to government specifications, in some cases necessary, many not!

                      P.S. Did you ever check out the QB58FC side lever? One more thing, your friend Buldawg76 has stated at least a few times how “ANAL” he is, well how many people do you know would build a damn 10′ rail for chronograph skyscreens, that would be me, I,at least have to be a contender for the anal title, not proud of it, but that would be me, I have gotten better. The worst part is that I never used it, pulled it out of storage a few weeks ago, the damn mice (white footed variety) had completely chewed one of the skyscreen wires in half, pissed me off! Did I mention that I HATE mice!

                  • Bugbuster
                    Lets see if I get this all.

                    Yes you need a chrony. Why guess a number. No never tryed copper plated. No never heard the elephant term. The qb58c I believe I checked it out. I believe I lost interest when I found out it was made in China if I remember right. And I guess that’s good to be annal sometimes. And I have a good suggestion for those little four legged mice critters. Its called a air gun. 😉

                    Did I miss anything. I think I got it all. 🙂

    • I have used my 3×12 UTG scope on hi power springers for a year. I do not use the light but it does work very well. As for the scope it worked well enough for me that I bought a 4×16 for my new TX

    • I had a red/green 6 level brightness leapers that got sold like an idiot, but one thing I noticed was the lowest setting was the only good one for truly dark sight pictures, like a critter in shadows on a bright day, but would actually overpower over the first setting and that the bright settings were good in bright conditions, which I thought would be opposite. The picture was so clear that the black lines actually worked best in dark conditions.

  8. to everyone,

    I have an old Daisy Powerline 922 which I bought for my son many years ago. It needs some serious attention. Does anyone know if any replacement parts for it are available anywhere and if it has any plastic parts in common with any more current models? A parts diagram would me most helpful also!

    Have any of you mounted a scope on a IZH 60/61 air rifle? Specifically, what mount and scope did you use? I recently bought one for my grand daughters and mounted a Williams aperture sight on it temporarily to see what it is capable of. Wow, is it accurate! The enclosed owners manual was somewhat difficult to comprehend, (at least for me) but once I figured out what it (the manual) was attempting to explain, the rifle operates as smooth as butter!

    Bugbuster

      • Derrick,

        Nice looking job! Why didn’t you just single point the 1/2-28 tpi on the muzzle? Regardless, I have the same setup (scope and mount) on a QB58FC side lever but I had to have the mount reversed to get the scope closer to my eye.

        Did you by any chance chronograph the 61 before and especially after the modification? Does the mount interfere with easy access to the clip release lever?

        Bugbuster

      • G&G,

        Which mount did you use on your 61, the UTG, BKL or other? What size groups are you getting? How many shots per group at what range? What is the most accurate pellet you have found?

        Bugbuster

        • Bugbuster,

          I use UTG mounts (rings). They work fine. At 10 meters I occasionally get 10 shot groups of 1/4″ but usually my groups are closer to 3/8″. Normally I use the RWS R10 Match Heavy 8.2 Gr. but my results are usually about the same with H&N Finale Match Rifle 8.18 Gr.

          I’ve said it before, I love this little rifle despite the fact I have several really great springers. I will plink
          with it at up to 30 yards and still get good results even though your not supposed to with wadcutters. Go figure. It’s great fun to shoot.

          G&G

          • Bugbuster,

            I made a mistake. After I clicked Post I realized I told you the wrong mounts. I have a 2 piece BKL mount on my IZH61. One piece has the 1.35″ offset. Sorry ’bout that.

            G&G

            • G&G

              You must really love your rifle, feeding it fillet mignon, mine only gets big macs and quarter pounders! Initially, I tried all of my light weight pellets (11 different ones) using the factory sights at a range of approximately 19′ shooting at an official smallbore 50′ rifle target. I was only doing 5 shot groups. Out of a total of 55 shots, only one shot impacted outside the black. It was obviously a bad pellet because it really went outside the black!

              After I mounted a Williams receiver sight on it, it shot even better. I really need to either get my old Oehler 33 chronograph back on line or replace it so I can get some actual velocity readings. With the peeps, I managed a nice, tight,10 shot, one hole group at 19′ using Crosman 7.4 grain wadcutters.

              I shot it 50′ last Sunday using the same pellets and was a little disappointed at the group size. When I got home, I loaded it with 5 Crosman 7.4 grain pointed pellets and aimed at an existing pellet strike on a piece of .135″ thick sheet lead which I have hanging under my carport. The range was approximately 17′, it stacked 4 of the 5 pellets on top of each other, needless to say, I was impressed! It truly is a pleasure to shoot and accurate. All shooting was supported, my offhand (awfulhand) sucks!

              Bugbuster

                • RifledDNA,

                  Really, it has only 190 pellets through it to date. Do you have a 60/61? I have shot a variety of pellets through it so far, none were dirty, oily or had any coating on them. Do you have any experience with any of the copper plated pellets? Are there any downsides to them?

                  My granddaughters are coming over this afternoon to get acquainted with it, I bought it for them for Christmas. I think they will do fine.

  9. Hello B.B. and fellow airgunners!

    This year got our 16 yr old daughter and 14 yr old son the new P.08 full metal and the new M712 for them and their friends to have fun with in the back yard. Of course I had to show them how load and operate them – he he he! Every bit as fun as Paul C. shows in his video!!!

    And B.B., we still have our few year old trusty Bronco. Still shooting very well!

    All the best to everyone 2015!

    Texmotodad

  10. As with many shooters, the Daisy 1894 was my first BB gun. I shot it for years until something broke inside and bent the internal mechanism. It’s still hanging on a nail in the garage. As I recall, my friends Crosman V350 was more powerful. Which reminds me, I have a V350 that needs a reseal and probably some other work.

    Mike

  12. I grew up watching ‘The Rifleman’…. ORIGINALS….
    The Daisy Spittin’ Image 1894 was my first gun also.That would have been Christmas 1966 or 1967… I was introduced to the Sheridan in Boy’s Life the Boy Scout magazine about 1965 but I think the Sheridans were $30.00 or $40.00 back then, I think the Daisy was about $13.00 or $14.00..

    I got my first Sheridan a ‘C’ model Silver Streak in the late ’80’s and it’s all been uphill/downhill depending upon how you look at it ever since!!!!

    Happy New Year!

    BRASS

    Greg

    • That sounds very familiar. I think I got my 1894 when I was 10 in 1962. But, I did get a Sheridan “C” in 1968 when the 1894 broke. That was like going from a Biplane to a jet fighter!.

      Mike

  13. From the boys I received a mag for my 1911 and a Stanley thermos..both much appreciated.
    I fear that just as seven years ago the Red Ryders under the tree for the boys got us into the shooting sports in a big way…the presents they wanted this year may also be the start of a new hobby (can never have too many hobbies that don’t involve a gaming system as far as I’m concerned).
    They each got an RC Short Course Race Truck.
    These things are amazing. Just as with a real vehicle you can change the springs and suspension parts depending on the track. Different viscosity gear oil and shock oil…again to tailor the truck to the track.
    Wi-Fi sensors that send your motor and gearbox temps to your I-Phone so you know if you’re overheating.
    Just as seven years ago when I took the boys Red Ryders down to the basement to ‘play’ with one evening and the next week I bought my first good air rifle (Avanti 853c)…I have a suspicion that next month cowboystar dad will have his RC truck.

    • That story reminded me of a “Jhonny Lighting” slot car race track my brother and I got 1 year for Christmas. I used to glue pennies in the bodies for added weight and sticky up the tires any way I could find. I was tuff to beat. Not sure if I ever did let him in on that. 🙂

    • cowboystar dad,

      No worries. I am an avid guitar player (I’m in a band) as well as shooter. I am managing to do well with both endeavors (both are much more than hobbies). So you can do both too. My problem is that I haven’t been able to get my son into airguns.

      G&G

  14. My Christams present this year was a Webley Mark VI CO2 revolver. I was allowed to open it up and handle it a couple weeks ago, but then back in the box it had to go until yesterday, so I haven’t charged it with CO2, loaded, and fired it yet.

    Michael

  15. The Lahti is a winner if for nothing more it retains the Lugers looks. I like what one historian said. The Lahti’s designer took the Luger removed everything, not liked, such as the toggle and created a new pistol. The best Lahti is said to be the original M35 from Finland. It is suppose to be extremely reliable, and treasured by the Finns. I’ve come across a few of the M35s over the years, but I was never in position to buy one. If you look at the write up in John Walter’s “LUGER” book, you will see he described the Swedish version in less than glowing terms. I look forward to your review!!!

  17. B.B.,

    I had to give myself airgun items for presents this year. My wife doesn’t really have a clue what to get but that’s ok. What I got myself is the Bluebook of Airguns and a new Hawke 8-32 X 56 Sidewinder Scope. I have 4 of these now. Next time I’m going to try a different scope.

    I am talking to a dealer and Martin at R.A.W. about a customized BM500 LW for Light Varmint . I expect to get a very good deal. They are both very excited about that recent score I shot.

    On that subject, I really wish P.A. would start to carry more of the really higher end guns. They remain my favorite dealer from whom I have bought 75% of everything I own.

    G&G

    • G&G
      I’m pretty well set on the Hawke scopes too. I got 6 various models of them right now. I do a lot of shooting at different ranges in one sitting like how a feild target natch is setup so the 1/2 mildots work for me. Makes a difference for sure especially if shooting up in trees or down hills.

      And I’m with you on the higher end guns. I don’t know if P.A. had bulseye bucks yet when I started buying from them. But I got a lot off accumulated dollars spent that’s for sure. Now if they would only accept discount coupons on some of the guns they do have now. That would change my game plan.

      • Gunfun1,

        So true about the discount coupons. The are several guns I would probably pull the trigger on if they accepted discount coupons on them and I applied my bullseye bucks as well. I’m sure that Air Arms, for instance, will not go along with the coupon discounts for monetary reasons.

        Well, we can dream can’t we?

        G&G

            • Chris
              You know that Pyramyd AIR does accept the normal and special discount codes on the Walther air guns but not on the Air Arms guns like the TX.

              That was one of the reasons I got my Walther LGU was because it resembled the TX200 I got. Both are under levers and they fine craftsmanship. But you can use those 10% or better coupons on the Walther’s.

              And my LGU is a point and hit gun. Whatever they did with the LGU they got it right.

              So that’s something to think about.

  18. I have a question I want to put out. TX200III owners are particularly welcome to chime in.

    The holes in the top of the receiver are for scope stops. They appear to not be threaded. It would seem that a pin that is simply “dropped in”, then the scope slid back to it and secured,……would still run the risk of the pin falling out in the future.

    The mount I plan to use is the PY-A-827 on the P.A. sight. It says that a stop pin is included, but does not show it. Will the O.D. of the pin fit the I.D.’s on the gun?

    Thanks, Chris

    • Chris,

      The scope stop holes are not threaded. They are large, and scope ring makers make their pins smaller to fit the holes, no matter what size they are.

      The pins do not have to fit the holes precisely. When you mount the rings, you slide the ring that has the pin in it backward until the pin contacts the back of the scope stope hole. Size doesn’t matter — as long as the pin fits inside the hole.

      B.B.

      • In your experience, do exact fitting or threaded stop pins in more danger then if they are given that room to settle back? I’ve wondered the same about why they aren’t just threaded. The guns can have their own and the mounts just provide their hole, head toward standardization.

    • In that scenario, I think I might get a length of piano wire from the local hobby shop, diameter sized for as close a fit as possible, and cut an appropriate length w/ Dremel tool. More contact area can’t hurt.

    • Chris,

      I’m not sure I understand. You are correct that the receiver holes are not threaded but the pins are threaded inside the scope mount itself (not simply dropped in) and screw down into the holes in the receiver to the proper depth. I’ve never had a stop pin unscrew itself from the mount although I guess that’s possible.

      Or, maybe I’m misunderstanding you. If I am then in the words of Rosanadana……..nevermind.

      G&G

  19. Thank you,…..a ring “with” the pin. That makes sense now. Once clamped your done. The one I’m getting is a 1pc. mount, but I imagine the same theory will apply.

    And you should be proud,…. I’ll be getting some “quality” pellets with the TX. All domed and weights of 14.5, 15.89 and 21.14 of the JSB, H+N and RWS brands.

    ( you know……I will still have to weigh and head sort for awhile anyway) 🙂

    • Chris, USA
      BB answered you on the scope stop and it does work the same also with a one piece mount.

      And by the way The 15.89 JSB pellets have worked the best for me in my .22 cal. air guns. And I can’t remember all the ones I tried.

      But have fun finding the right pellet. That’s what makes airgunning fun. 🙂

  20. Speaking of Christmas and bb guns, what is the BB gun in the movie Home Alone? Looks like a Daisy lever action Red Ryder style, but, there is no lever and he “pumps” the forearm. Any insight on this gun? Real or fake?

    • Bradly.
      I read it was a Remington pump gun a rival to the Red Ryder . They were notorious for having some type of premature failure. So it had a short life span and short production run since it could not be fixed readily . It is said if found one at gun show to not shoot it keep as collector only.

    • Thank You guys for the answers. After reading them, I’ve done some investigating. As of right now, I’m leaning with B.B.’s answer. I looked at old Remington BB guns. They look nothing like the bb gun Kevin used in the movie. They look look a Remington shotgun. I believe that gun is a Remington Model #26. They are all steel and have a very fine (thin) metal trigger guard. In fact the Daisy Model #26 would be closer in looks than the Remington due to the “thicker” trigger guard and more rounded pump handle, but that’s not it either. The BB gun in Home Alone has a trigger guard that is thick with a “hinge” so this could rotate (be cocked), but the lever itself is gone. Also the barrel on Kevin’s gun is typical of today’s Red Ryder. It looks to have a plastic front sight and a plastic “end cap” on the barrel. One picture I looked at the pump handle is forward. There is a big gap behind it, with nothing connecting what the pump handle rides on to the receiver of the gun. Every time I watch where Kevin shoots Marv, it appears that Kevin “pumps” the gun by moving the pump handle forward, which is how the Daisy 26/572 cocked, but there were “gears” showing when that handle was forward, unlike Kevin’s which has nothing but air showing. The front swivel for the sling looks to be of heavy metal, one you’d fine on a rimfire or bigger cal. Not a cheap bb gun. I’m not done investigating just yet. Bradly

  21. No presents this year, per se. However I’ve been pretty much unregulated (by my wife) all year, so I’ve built/acquired many wonderful airguns this year. My final present to myself this year will be a BNM Custom multishot breech with a shrouded barrel for my third (and final) Crosman carbine.

  22. B.B.,

    A quick and easy question, I’m guessing anyways….How many people read this blog world wide and how many would you guess post on a fairly regular basis?

    I have visions of the Air Gun Academy “war room” with multiple big screens on the walls and a world wide map of who’s posting and in what part of the world. 😉

    and as a P.S. …..How do you alert readers of upcoming air gun events? I live about a 2hr. drive from Py.Air and might like to attend an event. Also, do they have a showroom where you can actually walk in and buy something?

      • Gunfun1,

        I just went to the Hawke website to check it out. I hit the site map looking for help full articles and found a couple. 1) illuminated sights, etched glass, and 2) exit pupil, magnification and objective lens dia. and how they all relate.

        The 2nd I had not read in all my “studies” of scopes. As for the “chair gun” down load, I got it saved and might use it in the future as I gain more experience and knowledge. Besides, most times I ever tried to download something, I seem to always mess it up some how.

        Studies, experience, knowledge,,,OH MY,…..I’m starting to sound like “Grass Hopper” on the old show Kung Fu. ha, ha.

        Thank you to ALL that chimed in on my scope questions!!!!

        • Chris
          It does seem to get overwhelming doesn’t it.

          Just go out and shoot you will know when something out of the ordinary comes up.

          When I was a kid I use to always ask my dad why he shot everyday.

          He said I think I’m improving but I think I could do better.
          🙂

        • Chairgun is so much fun, I don’t have exact chrony numbers and still have a blast checking out different scenarios. Its also only 1.2mb so might be easier to download then a lot of things. Not to push, but Im a huge fan.

  23. Hi guys and Happy Holidays 🙂

    Have you heard of this page: http://www.weihrauch-database.eu/ ?

    It’s run by a Dutch guy who is collecting Weihrauch serial numbers and manufacture/purchase dates.

    It appears that the rifles are numbered in sequence regardless of model, but pistols seem to have their own set of numbers. My HW45 (419169) which I bought a month would have a manufacture date around 1972 which is clearly impossible.

    The HW35E a friend loaned me is dated as 1980 (my year of birth) which I suppose is possible. It looks and shoots great after all these years 🙂

    Kind regards,
    Stephan

  24. I also have a Mossberg 42M(b) that was my grandfathers. It is complete with two magazines, the original rear peep, the various front posts, and even the trap-door in the butt. I am very anxious to hear your results of shooting this rifle. I have been unable to get mine to group REALLY well, but I can’t say I have tried single-loading or shooting target ammo.

    If you need parts or advice on the rifle, I am sure the folks over at http://www.havlinsales.com/ will be helpful. I am not affiliated, but I hear they are the go-to source for the old Mossberg 22’s. I really want to try out their scope mount, but would hate to damage my original finish.

  25. Gunfun,

    Just a follow up on the other day.

    The Coal Fenix FX 450 pellets don’t shoot well in the HW50S either best 10 shot group was .937″ rested at 25yds.

    Also fooled a bit with shooting off my monopod. I shot 5 shot groups at 25yds with both the 460 Magnum and the HW50S. Had one outstanding .362″ with the 50 so if I can figure out what I did that time….
    Think I will just wait for B.B. to tell all on this monopod shooting before trying again.

    Santa doesn’t come to my house (even left a plate of latkas out for him this year) so no new Air gun toys arrived yesterday.

    Hope your holiday was good.

    David

    • David
      I think you have the same Santa I do. He gave me my presents early. 🙂

      And what pellets did you use in the 50 with that .362″ group?

      And I had a good holiday. It was a bit buisy at times but we did manage to shoot some air guns yesterday when everybody was over at my house.

      And hope you had a good Christmas too.

          • Gunfun,

            Shot the Coal Fenix pellets in the 460 Magnum again off the bench and in the HW50S off the bench. Best they shot in the HW50S was .983″ ten shots @ 25yds.

            Shot both guns with Air Arms/JSB 8.44gr and 10.34gr pellets off the monopod mostly between .6″ and .75″ for 5 shot groups with the one .362″ exception. Thought the heavier 460 Magnum might do better off the monopod but it was harder to settle the bigger gun. So with a bit of time I think I can master the monopod.

            David

            • David
              That 460 has got a pretty good bump I bet when it shoots compared to the 50.
              Its usually harder to make them magnums cooperate.

              You know what’s funny. My tuned TX makes my 50 feel like a magnum. No offense but I think if I shot a 460 it would feel like a shotgun compared to my TX.

              I’m just not patient enough to shoot a magnum springer but I would say that your .600″ to .750″ is pretty good for a magnum at 25 yards. I just have no luck with them.

              • Gunfun,

                That was 5 shots off the monopod so 10 shots would open the group up. When I’m in the zone I can shoot .5″ with the 460 at 25yds off the bench but I’m starting to shoot under .4″ for 10 shots at 25yds with the HW50S. So guess which gun is now my go to gun.

                David

                • David
                  I do know what you mean.

                  One if the sayings we had with drag racing is sometimes you git to slow down to go faster. Your engine can make all the power in the world but if you can’t get it to the ground what good is all the power.

                  Same with air guns. Adequate power is good but the more power you have the harder it is to control.

                  I don’t want to have to try to control anymore. I just want to pick the gun up and point and hit with out all those fancy holds.

                  Like you say. Guess what gun I’m going to pick up and shoot. The one that gets the job done the easiest.

                  The right amount if power and a smooth controllable gun is what I’m after.

            • Like gunfun said the 460 is a beast and screw checks, barrel cleaning etc.. Im just starting to get into doing the quick checklist before shooting and it seems to make all the difference with the big shakers.

                • No kidding, we take for granted when you tighten a screw it’ll stay there. Even on the blaze 177 which isn’t shaky they start moving after awhile. I have really started taking attention to the barrels too, I have always heard no need to clean an airgun barrel but there was a lot of lead in both when I cleaned em, and conditioning a barrel isn’t really about cleaning but smoothing out the roughness from machining which won’t happen by itself, especially not with soft lead ammo. Ive contemplated getting another tin of copper kodiaks just for the purpose of breaking in the barrels. Me and Reb (which anybody notice heaven heard for a bit? Where are you Reb?) had a lot of talk about conditioning barrels a few months back and firelapping, I read a great book “Rifle Maintenance handbook” by Chris Christian for field and stream, awesome book for overall rifle care and 3/4ths or more applies to air rifles as well, I highly recommend. Anyway, reading that got me thinking about the barrels again.

                  • RDNA
                    Barrels are a little tricky. I know some people believe in cleaning them and some people don’t.

                    I think what you said may have to do with the quality of the barrel maker. So it is possible that some barrels may need help and others don’t.

                    I myself won’t touch mine unless I see my groups change from the ordinary.

  26. B.B.,

    Because of your advice to get a multi-pumper as a survival gun, I got a new Benji 392. It has proven to be a good one so far (no paint in the bore and it makes very small round holes in paper in my basement with its favorite pellets–just like my LGV). I’m planning to mod it by adding a hidden air reservoir, ACP (air conserving pneumatic) parts, and stronger “Steroid” valve and pump arm parts. My goal is to turn it into a “self-contained” PCP that can shoot a dozen or so Premier pellets at over 600 fps with greatly reduced pumping between shots or two 800 fps shots with no pumping required for the “follow-up” shot–all after “pre-charging” the valve and air reservoir with many pumps, of course.

    Once I thought about your reasons, I too came to the conclusion that a 392 can be a good survival gun. Also, as an Appleseed program “Rifleman” graduate, I plan to add a “Ching” sling to my 392, and shooting slings don’t work terribly well with springers. A quick-donning shooting sling is a great aid when hunting, however! I think I have some ideas how to minimize the impact of the sling attachment on pumping, though the desire to use a sling also motivates my desire for self-contained PCP/ ACP operation too.

    As with a springer, one must hold a small inventory of critical spare parts for a 392 to be considered a survival gun. However, I believe the multi-pumper contains a few more critical parts than a simple springer, which really only has three critical parts that are prone to wear and failure (spring, piston seal, and breech seal/O-ring). Springer mainsprings are somewhat pricey so I anticipate the cost of my 392 spares kit will be comparable to my springer spare kits.

    -Cal

    • Springs were 20$ or less at vortek, kits are 70-80 up to 100+/~ which was pretty good I thought, seems about the same as a lot if multipumpers bout 20$ for a part or two and 70-100 for a kit maybe, I was looking for an old 881 parts and found it’ll be better to just buy a new 880 and drop in the guts.

  27. My best present this year was given to me by myself. An AA S500 Extra Fac. I mounted a hawke eclipse 6-24×50 on it and at 25yds rested the pellets made one slightly larger than .177 hole for a five shot group.

  28. Hi BB,Wow 50k plus readers and you stop and answer my questions…kinda makes me feel important and I hope I haven’t wasted your time.

    I don’t have anyone who would buy me anything as expensive as an airgun but I got a couple more on my own.I followed you all year looking for my best choice of an accurate ,lightweight,affordable .22cal.rifle for all around offhand shooting and supported long distance shooting.You introduced many new contenders this year.The Condor SS,the two new AirForce survival/disaster guns,the new Benjamin Trail NP-2,the Marauder second generation,and the Disco Double were on my list and you tested them all and I appreciate that you paid attention to gun weight this year more than usual because it really helped me.I got the Marauder with synthetic stock and had P.A.change the bolt to left hand for me.It is working out just great.

    I also got a Gamo whisper in .177cal. thinking I could change out the trigger since I had a new GTX trigger setting around unused.Guess what?I like the trigger.It has a good first stage then the second stage breaks quickly and predictably and the trigger pull is not as strong as the Marauder was out of the box.I decided not to change it .But I would like an even lighter trigger pull and I thought about how everyone says we shouldn’t leave the gun cocked because it will weaken the spring.So I keep the trigger pulled back and held there with a bread twister in hopes that the spring will fatigue and give me a lighter trigger pull without having to tear the gun down.Do you think it will work?Or do I have a better chance of Santa coming back around and giving me a new FX Independence?-TIn Can Man=

    • Ha ha you never know what Santa may do.

      And I have thought about that myself. And even to weaken the main spring some on a springer by leaving it cocked over night. You would think it would have to weaken it some if you did it repeatedly. I don’t know if that is the right way or wrong way but I do believe it would weaken it.

  29. Did about every body start with that be gun. I have the first red rdyer my dad got me. I do like all the good info on this site. Without all the garbage found on other sites . I have for years repaired and made gun parts and just started in the air gun hobby. Trouble it is something I cannot put down, I like it to much. And yes I got a Benjamin discovery .22 and .17 and a Benjamin Marauder with a Crosman 2240 and 1000 rounds of ammo mostly Crosman premier. I have a wife thato shoots with me and 3 grand babies that shoot also.

    • Amen to that, I found PA when I actually came out of the cave and realized the internet could be useful. I searched things here and there and found lots if opinions, attitudes and back and forth information, some good stuff in specifics where the people devote to that one thing, but that’s where some of the worst attitudes can be also. I found Toms blog to be the only place where it all comes together with exactly that, none of the garbage. Daily real facts experience and fun as well with people that care that we each have fun and shoot well. PA is also the only social forum that i know of that influences the market and is plugged in to the events and people. Tom, Edith, PA and all its relations, .. keep up the great work. You all are creating a real unity for all the players of our beloved sport and can’t be thanked enough.

  30. Good morning all!

    I’ve been up and at it awhile now. Have checked it a variety of topics including:

    – Tuning
    – Glass bedding ( won’t be trying that anytime soon)
    – General lubrication, including:
    – moly grease ( Air Vent.)
    – chamber lube ( RWS)
    – piston lube (RWS)
    – general wipe down (Ballistol)
    – Factory lube, tear down, re lube properly
    – what lube goes where, why, how and how often

    Since I will be ordering the TX200 soon, I also wanted to get the proper lubricants now and not pay added shipping later. RWS has a nice description of lubing. I read the TX manual and it seems that less is needed. Tear looks easy enough if factory lube is less than good.

    Bottom line,… for the TX, what lubes would you buy,.. where to use them,.. and how often?

    Since I have already read alot on this, basics answers are fine.

    ( I’ll be out for a few hours today, 10-2, so I may not get right back to any questions)

    Thanks, Chris

    • Chris,

      For the TX200 Mark III you need nothing — nada– zip — zero — lubrication. The rifle comes from the factory lubricated and won’t need anything for a decade or more. Mine is now 12 years old and has never had a drop of lube that I can remember.

      B.B.

      • B.B.,

        As if I needed ANOTHER reason to buy it! HOLY COW! 🙂

        I guess then that my final question(s) would be related to barrel cleaning.
        – Rod type? brass, alum., coated, string/mono,…. and length?
        – Brush type?
        – Recommended solvent?
        – How often?

        Thanks to ALL,….. who have helped me on everything related to putting my TX “package” together. I will order it next week. Really,..THANK YOU!

        Chris

        • Reply to my self,…well that’s a first. Slow day I guess. Every one playing with their new “toys”. Since it was slow, I searched ” barrel cleaning” on this blog. As usual, it came up with a bunch of related article’s. Awesome!

          Things learned:
          – clean… or…don’t
          – no solvents
          – mono flex can damage crowns, as well as brass and steel..be carefull!
          – brass, plastic and cotton brushes ok for steel barrels
          – clean rod after cleaning barrel
          – brass rods and plastic coated steel rods are fine for steel barrels

          If I got it wrong, say so. In the mean time, I will hold off on a cleaning kit for the TX for now. Besides, now that I understand the hows, whys, dos and dont’s, I got some ideas on a homemade version. 🙂

  31. I received a wonderful gift this year for Christmas– the IZH61 from MATT61, with extra clips and a scope. I’m taking it out this week in freezing temperatures and snow up in the U.P, Michigan. I’ll report back, but I expect this Russian-made wonder to do well in conditions that would rival a Siberian winter. I may be able to post photos once I’m back from this extreme shooting experience.

    Merry Christmas, everyone.

    • Lauren
      Matt61 has talked a lot about your air gunning. And it sounds like a fun journey you getting ready to do. Pictures would be nice. Its always nice to see new shooting area’s. Have fun and let us know how it goes.

  32. Tin can man, Gunfun- I have a Winchester 600 (made in Brazil). It was hard to cock. I left it cocked for 2 months, but it had no noticeable effect. I took it to my smith and had him cut several coils off the spring. Leaving it cocked did not damage the spring. Ed

      • Gunfun1,
        Zimbabwae Ed,Thank you for your responses.In order to change the trigger or even doctor the spring I would have to build a spring compressor to be able to remove the trigger group and I don’t have anything in the way of a screw on hand for the compressor.So I hoped that time would work in my favor.I already have to work on getting the scope back where I need it because it won’t come back far enough the way they sent it.

        When I changed the sear for the Super Sear in my Benjamin 397 I took the liberty of tonking off one out of 6 coils of the trigger spring and stretching the spring out to the original length before replacing it .That really made the difference for me.That spring only served to create trigger pressure so it wasn’t a dangerous thing to do.If you try this;I used a cold chisel on a piece of steel.Tie a string on the spring and either hold it or tie it off to something first, or you may never see your spring again.-Tin Can Man-

  33. Gunfun, Tin can man- In “The book of the Springfield ” (Crosman, 1932) there is an interesting discussion about the mainspring of a 1903 rifle, pages 281,2. In part, Captain Crosman says-“nearly any 1903 that has been in service for 2 years or more will show a shortening of the mainspring. –It is not unusual for riflemen to cut off a couple of turns of the spring to ease the working of the bolt in rapid fire.” He goes on to describe how the rifle will be affected- lightening of the trigger pull, weak and uncertain ignition (poor accuracy), pierced primer, blowback of the cocking piece. In some of my books dealing with .22 target rifles, periodic replacement of the mainspring is recommended because of shortening and weaking of the mainspring. One of my Winchester B rifles (1950,s vintage) is misfiring with match ammo. The mainspring is shorter than the same spring in my other B,s. I plan to get a new Wolf spring for this rifle. If airgun makers gave us the spring dimensions for their rifles, we would be able to know when to replace the spring. Not everyone has a chronograph. Ed

    • Zimbabwae Ed
      I understand everything the you GF1 and TCM have been discussing about spring shorting/fatigue over time and being left cocked for extended periods of time. My question and reason for asking is this if a spring will shorten or take a set so to speak over time in air guns and fire arms also. Then how do springs used in the automotive/ motor vehicle industry differ or last for hundreds of thousand of miles when in a V8 engine there are between 4 and 6 valves open off their seats meaning the springs are compressed for any number of hours/days/months at a time and they still function well enough to allow for the opening and closing of the valves in an engines and sealing the combustion chambers for countless years and miles and yet in an air gun the standard teachings is that a spring gun should not be left cocked for extended periods of time or spring damage will result.

      Is the process of hardening or type of metals different in an air guns spring than it is for a motor vehicle springs that will allow for the accelerated weakening and shortening of the spring in an air gun versus the springs in a engine.

      Being a master certified Auto/Diesel technician for 45 years I have replaced broken springs in engine and shimmed spring for equalizing valve seat pressure but mainly in older 60s and 70s vehicles as time and car technology has improved it is very seldom if ever needed to replace valve springs in an engine for hundreds of thousands of miles. I have a 97 Nissan maxima with 210 thousands miles on it and it runs as smooth as it did when new and has no symptoms of weak or deteriorated valve springs. and gets within the same miles per gallon now as it did when new by1 to 2 mpg depending where and how it is driven, on the highway it still get 26 to 27 mpg just as it did when new.

      In racing application I do understand that valve springs are replaced quite regularly but that is more for durability and maintaining peak performance of the engine as the valve springs in those engine are being compressed to near coil bind at very high cyclic rates so although it may not be actually necessary to replace the springs it is done to ensure no failures occur during racing conditions,

      Is the spring in most air gun when compressed at the point of coil bind or not and if not such as in a TX 200 then why do springs in air guns take a set or weakening/shorten over time and use or if left cocked for extended period of time as it just does stand to reason that a spring is designed to be compressed and unless the springs in air guns are made of a lesser quality material or hardness and tensile strength than a motor vehicle then leaving one cocked as you stated in your Winchester 600 and made no significant difference it would seem that it is a old wives tale with no merit to it in my opinion unless there is something I am not understanding or aware of as springs are made to be compressed for short and long periods of time.

      BD

      • I know a little about springs on car struts, but am sure I have forgotten much over the years.

        – The (wire O.D), around 3/8″ in a strut, affect spring rate. So this can be + or -.
        – The (pitch of the coil wind) also matters. Some vary and will be at one pitch at the top and another at the bottom. Think of a bolt that has coarse threads near the head and progressively ends up with fine threads at the end.
        – The (wire O.D. can taper) also from from one end to the other, and at both ends.
        – The (coil O.D.) can also vary.
        – Material and hardness also play in.

        Since a strut is a spring/shock combo, the piston in the shock also factors into the ride of a vehicle. Tear a shock apart and you will find a piston head, much like in an air rifle.
        But the piston will have holes in it and metal disc on either side that bend/flex as the oil is pushed back and forth. Vary the head holes, the number of disc on each side and the thickness of those disc,..combine that with the coil spring,.. and you have a shock that will give a certain ride quality.

        That about as much as I know on springs. On the TX200, .22, I plan to use mine for hunting and would like to know opinions on leaving it cocked for a short period of time like 1/2~1hr. The cocking “clicks” may spook my quarry.

        Thanks, Chris

      • Buldawg,
        My understanding is that spring airguns compress the spring to coil bind every time they are cocked, so air gun springs may be more stressed than engine valve springs. But I agree that leaving mine cocked for a while certainly doesn’t reduce performance by any measurable amount

        • Mike U
          It could not be to complete coil bind or you could not get it completely cocked, but I believe that it at as close to coil bind in most guns as possible especially the high powered ones.

          But it still is no different than valve springs in a racing engine that are also compressed to near coil bind and done so at a cyclic rate that an air gun could never come close to and yet those engine are left sitting with valve’s open when not running. A V8 engine when shut off will stop in one of 4 positions of the 360 degrees of rotation of the engine and in those 4 places there will be 4 to 6 valves open at anywhere from full open to half open so then it does not stand to reason that leaving a spring gun cocked for extended periods of time will have any more or less affect on spring life/ degradation unless the spring is made of inferior material’s or standards.

          BD

        • Mike U
          From what I seen with spring guns is that repeated shots fired over and over will start to change the velocity of a spring gun. I think heat starts to get generated in the spring and transfers to the piston and cylinder walls and seals.

          Of course the heat is not the same as in a combustion engine. But I do believe heat lives in a spring gun and there has to be some fatigue to the spring if repeated cycles happen. That’s the biggest enemy to a spring is heat.

          So leaving a gun cocked would fall into a little bit different category and spring quality could be a factor also.

          And as far as a spring gun having coil bind. Everyone that I owned has had a air gap between the coils when its cocked. And if I had a spring gun that had coil bind I would be fixing that real quick. That’s a sure way to prematurely wear the cocking mechanism.

  35. I have a Daisy 1894 in very good condition in box. I’ve shot it 30 times ( two resivour worth ). It a little weaker than avarge Red Ryder. I like the bb feed system similar to the Daisy mod 25 no miss fire till its out of bbs. I’m curious to see how this gun comes apart and if any thing can be done to improve it . I always dreamed of modify a Red Ryder to a .22 cal with slightly stronger spring to shoot 400 fps.

    • Chris in Ct,
      You don’t know how badly I would like to make you an offer on that. That my first bb gun. The budget is a bit stretched at the moment however. I believe that yours would be in the 200$ range given the condition and box but I am no expert by any stretch.

      • Chris USA
        Not sure what the value is , no more than $125 NIB is what I paid for it bout 6 yrs ago, I didn’t want to pay that much for it back then, but I just wanted see what the Daisy 1894 was like. My impression is that its more of nostalgia / aesthetics than a shooter more for adults who are a big kid in heart than for youths. Its a little finicky how you load cock and pull hammer, Red Ryder design trump it. I would trade it for the Chief AJ Red Ryder in a heart beat. I sure BB will reveal the gun as not being built as good as it looks meaning it looks better than it functions. I’m sure Daisy will bring back another short run of the Daisy 1894 in the near future, keep checking on the Daisy Museum Web site often.

  36. Thought I would throw out some random topics for discussion/comments…..

    – CO2 cartridges…..Noticed any variation on shot # before pressure drops? B.B. replied a while back that they are weighed and if they fall within the +/- tolerance, they are allowed to pass. Also, in one archive article it was mentioned that one mfgr. “washes” their cartridges prior to filling them thus keeping dirt from air valves. I do not remember the brand.

    – Guns breaking and parts wearing out…..I have a Beretta 92FS nickle/wood which is just awesome. However, there is now about 1/8″ hammer free play at rest as well as play in the right side safety. It’s got around 2000 shots through it so if that’s abuse,…I stand guilty as charged. Similar experiences with other guns anyone? ( B.B.’s current series is addressing this very topic).

    – Leaving a spring piston rifle cocked for a short period as during hunting…..Is a 1/2~1hr. too long?

    – Ethical shot range in matters of hunting with an air rifle…..Some where on this blog I read that at whatever distance you can shoot 1″ groups on a regular basis,..then that becomes your max. ethical range. Fellow hunters agree?

    That’s enough. Hopefully I sparked a few posters interest.

    • Chris USA
      I have also been a mechanic for 45 years and an ASE certified master technician for those 45 years and I did not even think about the coil springs that hold a cars suspension. It was late and my mind was not fully with me,. but I understand about spring wire diameter, number of coils ,progressive wound springs, tapered or Beehive springs which the majority of engines now use due to their better control and durability characteristics.

      The suspension springs on a car are in a semi compressed state all the time and when driving are constantly varying in their rates of compression and cyclic rate as well as distances of compression. once again I will use my 97 Nissan maxima as an example in that it still has the stock springs/struts on it from day one with 210 thousands miles on the clock, it does ride slightly less smooth as it did when new but it by no means needs new springs or struts.

      I also under stand shock operation and the effect of the varying the hole size or number and placing shims to act as check valves on the shock valves which air guns have no shocks on their springs so their is no relevance their.

      You are going to find on your TX your are about to order that is has no spring preload whatsoever and can be disassembled without the need for a compressor at all, talk to GF1 about tuning a TX to shoot like a PCP with no recoil or movement of any kind when shooting.

      Then we are back to my initial question that why it said that leaving a coil spring gun cocked for extended periods will weaken/shorten the spring and/or reduce it useful life. I do not believe leaving your new TX cocked for 1/2 to 1 hours while hunting will cause any damage to the spring in any way at all and also don’t believe that leaving one cocked for several hours to day or months will cause any negative effects as Ed has stated with his Winchester 600 above.

      The only reason that I can say would be a cause for the spring being damaged by being left cocked for extended periods in an air gun is that it is made of inferior grades of spring wire and or metal alloys so that it is substandard to what is used in the motor vehicle world. Do I recommend leaving one cocked for extended periods, my answer would be no but I also do not see that it would cause any degradation of spring life or quality unless they are made substandard to the conventional springs in most everything else which is not likely.

      So we are bock to my original question which is why has the air gun community adopted the practice/convention that leaving a spring gun cocked fro extended periods of time detrimental to the spring life span or quality of operation.

      BD

      • Buldawg76,

        Thanks for the reply. I did not know that the TX needed no spring compressor. See what kind of stuff a fellow can learn here. 🙂 . It’s good to hear your take on the TX being under pressure for a short time as well. As for spring set, my guess is that it would be to the quality of the spring,….as in ALL of the quality aspects.

        As for TX tunes, it would be interesting to hear from tuned TX owners as to the specifics and the (delivered improvements) of each part of the tune. I’ve done some basic reasearch on this and am aware of many of the tune areas, but in a basic sense.

        • Chris USA
          Give Gunfun1 a shout as he has put a vortex tune kit in his TX and also played with some rubber/steel washer setups that he has stated gave him a very accurate and zero recoil spring gun.

          He will be glad to help you in any way to get your new TX to the point in a tune that you will like and hopefully one day I will have / bring myself to spend the money for a high end gun as I have always been the type of person to buy cheap and tune/fix/repair to my likings with just about everything I have ever owned.

          I am in the process of making me a under 100 dollar gas spring tuned field target gun that I am hoping will rival/compete directly with the high end/dollar spring guns. I cannot say if my endeavors will come out as I am hoping or not yet as I am waiting for a friend to get back from holiday travels to do some machine work to fit the gas spring into the 40 dollar spring gun that is my base for the project but if all goes as planned it should be a very smooth and accurate gun. I already know it is accurate in it stock form so what I am attempting now is putting an adjustable gas spring from a Hatsan 95 into the gun to replace the coil spring. The Hatsan gas or I should say air spring is adjustable for the air pressure you can charge it to with the use of the Hatsan PCP gun fill probe which I have for my AT44 22 cal PCP Hatsan. so once I get the spring to fit in the gun it is just a matter of finding the correct pressure to use in the spring to give me the shooting fps and recoil characteristics that I am trying to achieve.

          It will be after the first of the year before I can start on the maching work and then the tuning but I will give updates here as the project progress.

          BD

          • Buldawg76,
            A quick look at the P.A. catalog showed a whole bunch of Hatsan AT44’s, none of which were cheap. Add the cost of related PCP stuff in and I would say you don’t exactly fit in the cheap end of buying things.

            Your project sounds very interesting. Keep us informed without letting out all of those “secrets”. Might be a thing you can teach the cheap mega blaster mfgrs. and pay for that high end dream gun, whatever that may be.

            • ChrisUSA
              To some extent you are right in the not so cheap category but I got my AT 44s10long from Air Gun depot for 354.95 which is the most I have paid for an air gun, but with all the support equipment you are right in that a PCP gun and all the accessories are not cheap. By far the largest amount in dollars I have spent on my air gun hobby is the 635 for a Shoebox compressor so that I do not need to rely on any outside source or company to fill my guns and buddy bottle.

              I never said that I did not have a large sum of money invested in the sport, but rather that I have not got to the point that I have the funds to put out 700 to 900 dollars at one time. I have accumulated the guns and required support equipment of a year and a half time frame so it has been little bits here and there and most of my guns have been bought used as well.

              I am not the type of person that tends to keep secrets from anyone willing to learn and listen to what I have learned over the 50 years of experience of fixing anything and everything that I could possibly do my self instead of paying some one else to do it for me. I am very anal in what and how I do things and because of that mind set I do not trust others to do what I want done because there only a few individuals that I truly trust to do the work to the same high standard that I expect of myself. I have always lived and worked by the philosophy that if you do not have the time to do the work right the first time then when and where will you find the time to do it right the second time. You being a mechanic yourself and if you do or ever have worked in a car dealership then you understand exactly what I mean by that statement because if the car comes back with the same issue you just worked on it for then you are working for free the second time.

              Its a shame the medical profession has not accepted those same standards because if it had we may not be in the shape with our healthcare system that we are now, how many times have you gone to doctor for the same condition in a short time frame and you are always charged for every visit and for that reason I have always despised working on a doctors car as they tend to be the most difficult to satisfy and please no matter what or how you do something, but mention why they always charge for their services and never have comebacks and you get a blank stare.

              BD

              • Buldawg76,

                Thank you for your comment. I sense that a great deal of insight went into it.

                It seems that you have come a long way in just 1 1/2 years. I don’t know enough to buy used air guns and do not really have the time to extensively work on them. I did/will be getting the Blue Book as part of my order.

                I share your thoughts on working on things your self. Frankly though, most things on new cars are beyond me. As for doctors, I have been lucky. Not so much as a cold in 30+ years. I’m sure that won’t last,..but till then….

                As for sharing, you are to be applauded. If what you are doing succeeds, that would be a huge step for a cheap air gun.

                As for PCP’s, with all the cost, I do not think I will ever get into them, though their power and performance claims are hard to resist.

                • Chris,USA
                  The main reason that I have accomplished so much in a relatively short time is in august of 2013 I had a major life change I has to deal with as I had been like you for most of my adult life in that I never got sick. In June of 2013 I started to feel like I had an anchor thrown out behind me and just did not have the same level of energy and endurance that I have had for my 57 years and in august my family doctor did some test to see if there was something going on and in the stress test they found issues with my heart and had to have three stents put in my heart and since then my health has become to the point that my doctor told me to stop working and apply for disability.

                  So since November of last year I have been out of work and air guns give me something that I can still do and keep me from going crazy with to much time on my hands but not require that I put in an 8 hour plus day 5 to 7 days a week so in some respects it has helped me get to where I am at with my guns and it keeps my hands and mind busy and not dwelling on my health issues,

                  I worked for GM in a dealership for 30 plus years and did so till 98 when I got lucky with getting my dream job that combined my hobby at the time of motorcycles with my work by becoming a research and development mechanic for Harley -Davidson at the Talladega Test Facility here in Alabama right next to the super speedway and we did most all of our testing inside the speedway until 09 when Harley picked up and moved to Arizona due to the economy crisis and I was laid off after 11 years with company , so I went back to cars for about a year and quickly realized why I got away from that work back in 98, then got a job at a motorcycle salvage/Polaris dealer and did crash repair on bikes so the owner could sell them all over the world as Harleys bring big bucks in Europe nowadays and that is when my health issues came about . So I have not worked for a year and am waiting on my disability to be approved.

                  That is why I buy used guns and repair them myself and do some air gun work on the side for some extra money at times.

                  BD

  37. Chris, USA,

    Had to move here because there was no room left under your comment. You are buying a TX200 Mark III Let me tell yo what happened to one person who also did that a few years ago.

    He waqs also new to airguns, so he had nothing to compare the TX to. He found the TX to be hard to cock and he wasn’t so pleased with the accuracy. From his comments that ended soon after that, I think he felt bamboozled by all the “hype” over the TX. It wasn’t hype, of course, but he had nothing to compare it to and therefore got discouraged. He didn’t stick around long enough for me to talk him through it.

    Just keep that in mind as you do this. I still believe you will love the TX, but if not, give us a chance to get you comfortable with it.

    B.B.

    • BB,

      Trust me, I will not be going anywhere. I have spent well in excess of 100hrs, maybe even 200 researching and learning from this great site. Even so, I know that I have only scratched the surface. I’m sure I will love the TX and if I have any issues, I know where to turn.

      I will order it Monday via phone. With all those “clouds” getting hacked lately I don’t trust the internet with my money. But then, if it’s sunny monday, I may change my mind. 😉

  38. Believe me, I won’t be going anywhere. If I have issues, I know where to go. I have done a lot! of research and believe I will be delighted.

    Thanks for everyones help, Chris

    • Chris, USA
      I will say this real quick. Get your TX you want and shoot it. I’m willing to bet you will love it as it is when you open the box.

      Here is something about me. I have drag raced and built cars for close to 40 years. I fly radio control air planes 3D and pylon racing.

      I’m a person that thinks something can be made to perform better. I have done that in pretty much everything I do. Even at work at the machine shop I have worked at for a bit over 30 years ad a machinist.

      So back to the TX. Mine shot good from the box. But I know I wanted something more. My TX shoots so smooth and quiet now you would think you were shooting a pcp gun if your eyes were closed. And if you never shot a pcp air rifle they do not move or vibrate when you shoot them.

      And here’s another thing to think about. I had I bet 15 different spring and nitro piston guns overtime. And out of the box the TX had the best shooting characteristics of the others with the exception of the Diana 54 Air King and FWB 300s. They have a recoil system and the actions are mounted on sliding rail so the shooter feel’s no recoil.

      I know you will like yours the way it comes from the factory. But also if at some point in time when you learned how your TX characteristics are and what pelket it likes and you want to mess with a tune I will gladly let you know what I did to my TX.

      • Gunfun1, thanks for all of your support and advice. I , like you, always thinks things can be better and have tinkered all my life. I imagine that I will just shoot it “as is” for quite awhile.

        Items of tuning are still of interest. Example,…..do “this” and it will improve “that”,…in a general sense, not specific. You mentioned quiet, smooth, and no recoil as some benifits. I have not shot a PCP but I can not believe how many there were in the P.A. catalog and some of thier cost,…holy cow!

        • Chris, USA
          No need to thank. That’s what goes on here. We talk and learn.

          And I don’t know if you ever shot a Crosman pump gun like a 760 or a 1377. Or a 2240 Co2 pistol.

          They don’t move like what I said about a pcp. The way I see it the less amount a gun will move the easier it is to control the shot. A spring or nitro gun had that notorious bump when it fires. Some are more forgiving than others.

          The easier it is to operate the easier it will be to make the shot. Same in drag racing. The guy that’s driving the car all the way down the track and its skating all over the place ain’t going to do as good a job getting to the other end as a person that has a car that goes straight down the track when you hit the go pedal.

          I like the guy’s car that goes straight down the track.

          • Gunfun1, Makes sense in every regard. I will work on consistent holds, or lack of hold,…and try to do the same thing every shot and take it from there.

            As an aside, I am a little disappointed it does not have open sights. It would be nice just to break it in with a couple of hundred shots of just plinking. On the other hand, I suppose it was never meant to be shot open and does deserve the added precision that a nice scope will give, which everyone helped with also.

            • C,USA
              I use to love open sight shooting. But as it goes I’m getting old and the eyes ain’t as good as they use to be. So its scopes for me now.

              And you know what I usually take the sights off when I put a scope on. I for sure take the one off at the muzzle end. It always seems to show up in my sight picture when I’m using lower power.

              And you know what about that TX that I haven’t heard mentioned I don’t think and that’s the craftsmanship and quality of the TX. The bluing and the stock work is nice. And the trigger is great.

              And I don’t know if I said but my TX is a .177 cal. beech model and the beech is even nice. And wait and see what its like when you hold. Its like the stock was made to fit me.

              And you will have to say what yours is like because didn’t you say you want the .22 cal. model. That gun may be a whole different story when it comes to shot cycle compared to a .177 cal. model. Not for sure as I don’t have a 22 version so that will be interesting to hear about from you.

  39. Gunfun1,

    Yes, .22 , and yes on the quality of the trigger, stock and finish over all. All other things being equal in another gun,…that’s just icing on the cake!

    I know me. I backed you up on a comment towards the top somewhere about settling for less and then wanting more. Basically,.. instead of buying your way to the top,..start at the top ( if you can ), and you will have far more money in your pocket in the end. And be happier.

  40. Chris in Ct
    Here’s the pictures of my TX and LGU. You might need to click the zoom to see the grain better. And the tape on the side of my scope is my hold unders. Most people use hold over. I go the opposite way. But just so you know what it means. The first hold is 15 yards the second is 25 the third is 35 and the last is 50 yards which is what I zero at. They are in 1/2 and whole mildots. Yep nobodies going to pick my gun up and hit anything with it. they will be holding the wrong way. And yes the LGU has better wood. But remember the TX is Beech not Walnut. I seen some pretty Walnut stock TX’s.

    http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag362/gcars/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141228_192740861_HDR_zps4e1a1b86.jpg

    http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag362/gcars/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141228_192559348_HDR_zps75323a59.jpg

    http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag362/gcars/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141228_192343710_HDR_zpsd61d6074.jpg

    http://i1373.photobucket.com/albums/ag362/gcars/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20141228_192242587_HDR_zpsefb2b8bc.jpg

  41. For my shooting dimension I received new powder from my lovely wife that has embraced my recent obsession with a 6mm.

    Although this answered one of the questions B.B. asked this was not the motivation for my post.

    The Mossberg model 42M-B .22 rifle speaks to me and can’t help me from posting.

    The photo that indicates spectacular condition combined with the lend lease provenance makes me giddy. What a stunning piece of history. It’s a fine example of why after all these years I’m so attracted to guns in general. Only occasionally does a historic piece cross your threshold and when I spend some time with it something comes alive inside of me. Guess I need to see a shrink.

    You can forgive these timepieces when it comes to others expectations of accuracy since firing these historic pieces take up that slack if you’re in tune with its history. My kind of gun.

    k

  42. Asking for advice and recommendations. My daughter would like to start shooting an air pistol with me, she does precision air rifle shooting already, but for pistol we’re just looking at paper plate at 25-40 feet level of precision and a repeater for action courses. I have a couple Beeman pistols that are too large for her (and single shot), and my smallest, a Umarex Walther CP99 pellet pistol she cannot cock, and shooting it in double action is extremely difficult for her. So, I have no good options. I’m considering a BB action pistol that shoots in single action for her, like the Blowback Parabellum P.08 or one of the Makarov models. I think a 1911 model would be too large for her. Long ago, I tried the Walther PPK/S and CP99 compact to dismal failure, if the barrel was pointed down at all, the BB would roll out of the barrel while you were aiming and taking slack our of the trigger. Terrible. I’ve heard the blowback version of the Mak does the same. I don’t know much about BB pistols, or action pistols really. Can B.B. or anyone with experience recommend any good options to consider for her? I’m happy she wants to engage with another form of shooting recreation (her precision with a good rifle is amazing, she bests me up to about 35 yards), that new form being some action shooting type courses. Any help you can offer is greatly appreciated. Thank you all, and I hope you had a great Christmas or Holiday however you celebrate it. Cheers.

    • Bristolview,

      Hi. It’s been some time since we heard from you.

      I assume you want an accurate pistol for your daughter? I recommend the S&W 586 revolver. It’s a .177 10-shot repeater than it easy to cock and fire in both single and double action modes. With careful shooting the 586 can keep 10 shots under one inch at 10 meters.

      If you want something even more accurate than that, we can certainly find something, though it will be a world-class air pistol and not inexpensive. Those guns are 5-shot repeaters that will put 10 into a quarter-inch at 10 meters. A good Czech repeating target pistol will cost $350 used and a German pistol will be $800 and up.

      The other possible option is a Crosman 600. It’s a .22 and it uses a lot of gas, but it will outshoot the S&W and does have a better trigger.

      The BB pistols are good, but are not as accurate as the S&W I have recommended.

      B.B.

      • B.B. – Thank you. I’ve been away for awhile, happy to be back, I’m surprised you remember! I’ll check out your recommendations, I hadn’t looked at revolvers as options actually (never used one). I think she will eventually want an accurate pistol, so your comments are spot on.

        She has recently seen some action courses, with a series of targets through a course at differing ranges. She’s intrigued by this as it’s so different from her shooting now. Now she shoots an air rifle, which is ‘Zen like’ in her words, calm, relaxed, paced and precise shot placement. She is very good at that. The action courses however, are more about reaction and muscle memory to put a shot on target while moving quickly through the course, and less about close groupings. I think her interest in trying something different is great, and I’d like to encourage it. The courses have only moderate accuracy needs, a large paper plate size target at ranges from 5 to 15 yards usually, sometimes a 20 but not often, sometimes up a hill, level or downhill. I’ll check out your recommendations for this. I was thinking a blowback action pistol might serve her well for these; moderate accuracy at these disances and large target, single action trigger for her small size, auto cocking to single action to help her time. The revolver you mentioned sounds like it can be cocked easily if she needed, so that may work fine, with better accuracy than the action BB pistols to boot. She’s very small, thus the difficulty with my double action triggers. That’s why I was considering something like the Mak blowback, small, single action and autococks.

        With that additional background, do you think your recommendations are still the way to go? I’ll check them out and read reviews, they sound like they’d be good pistols in general for her. Would you recommend any other pistols for her for a course like these? Thanks again B.B.

        • Bristolview,

          Those are the only pellet pistols I can think of, but she might want to go airsoft. The best airsoft guns are being used in action games like IPSC right out of the box these days. Of course it’s possible to plunk a grand into one to make it go even better, but some of the ones I have tested work quite well.
          Here is a good one I tested:

          /blog/2013/11/tanfoglio-gold-custom-eric-grauffel-co2-blowback-airsoft-kit-part-2/

          B.B.

          • I had wondered about Airsoft, but I thought the accuracy of airsoft would be even less than the BB action pistols. One person suggested a KWA ATP Professional Training Pistol, which I learned was an airsoft pistol when I got home and looked it up. I really know even less about airsoft than I do about BB/Pellet action pistols. The first review of the KWA ATP I read mentioned replacing the barrel with a tighter one to improve accuracy, not a promising intro, but generally well reviewed. The Tanfoglio you linked looks like an interesting pistol, that’s about the max I’d like to spend. I need to balance cost, not breaking the bank but also good enough to make the course fun and challenging as opposed to frustrating due to poor pistol performance. If she decides to pursue the action courses after getting introduced to them, then I wouldn’t mind investing more. Right now, she’s just investigating to see if she likes them. Do you (or anyone) have a shortlist of Airsoft pistols that might work for this? Smaller is better (she’s quite small), but I know that generally also comes with lower fps and reduced accuracy. Thank you B.B. You’re opening my eyes to some options I hadn’t known about (Crosman 600) and some I hadn’t considered (Revolver, Airsoft). Thank you.

          • B.B. – One other person had recommended using a KWA ATP (/product/kwa-atp-adaptive-training-gbb-airsoft-pistol?m=2569) or KWA 1911A1 (/product/kwa-1911a1-gas-blowback-airsoft-pistol?m=2737) for use in these courses. The 1911 is too large, she cannot reach around the fat handle, but the ATP being closer to a Glock might work better. Would something like that be a reasonable option in your opinion? I know almost nothing about Airsoft. This KWA Professional Training Pistol range was recommended, they mimic the firearm they’re patterned after, that’s nice. Are they any more accurate than a Umarex Legands P.08 (blowback version for the single action trigger)? I’d love a pellet pistol with single action trigger for her, but I’m not finding any of those. Maybe I just go with the revolver you mentioned and thumb cock it, that’s not too bad – although I think she’d enjoy the blowback and simulation of modern automatic pistols. Thoughts? (Sorry to be a pain, thanks for the help).

            • Bristolview,

              I have no experience with this airsoft gun. Remember the accuracy we are talking about is sufficient to hit a playing card at 10 meters repeatedly. Almost any airsoft pistol of quality should be able to do that. Most quality BB guns can do it, too. Action pistols are not target arms, though the best of them can be reasonably accurate.

              Get the gun that fits. If it is a respected brand that has good reviews, that is about the best you can do.

              B.B.

      • Just checked out that revolver, I think I’d like one! I’ll have to learn more about them, totally new to me. The Crosman 600 looks like a gem, nothing quite like that in the current lineup. I didn’t know they made something like that. I will have to look for one, looks like a great option. I’m not sure about size for her, it looks a bit large, but looks like something I’d have fun with regardless. Pricey shooter though, but what a great feature set. Thanks for showing me it exists, if I can find one.

  43. My Christmas included a P.08 and a Bug Buster Tap scope, an MTM shooting table and an MTM shooting cradle (all your suggestions, B.B., thanks!), targets including Zombie Pizza Delivery (ick! zombies creep me out!) from a friend, Dirty Bird multi-colored reactive targets and PA’s 4-for-3 pellet offer (Also, an RC helicopter, a beautiful red Cuisinart, heavy-duty large cast iron cooking pot/lid. And clothes, of course.) I’m lucky, in that whenever I mention something I want in the way of airgunning, my wife encourages me to buy it right then and there.

    I owned 2 1894 Daisy BB rifles back when I was teaching my kids to shoot…one plain, one golden. I loved them. They were sold to me used by a friend who did repair work at Ollie Damon’s in Portland, Oregon. He also sold me used: a Crosman 600, as well as a Daisy BB Sixgun. I bought a used 3/4 ton Ford pick-up truck that came with a gun rack over the rear window, so I kept one of the 1894s in it for laughs.

    Anyway, Happy New Year to you, B.B. and to Edith, and to the rest of the gang here!

  44. Re the Mossberg .22″LR rifle.
    I was in the Army Cadets here in the UK from 1944 to 1948. We all learned to shoot with Mossbergs an a 25 yard range in the school cycle shed.
    When we were deemed competent we were allowed to move up to .303″ service rifles, (but not in the cycle shed).
    Like all UK males I was conscripted into the armed services at age 18. The experience I’d already had with .22 and .303 served me well in the “real” army.
    I kept up shooting after my military service was over and competed at Bisley with a P’14 in .303 until Britain went over to 7.62mm. I had the P’14 converted with a Kongsberg barrel and continued to shoot it until my job took me so far from Bisley that it was impractical to continue. The P’14 was traded in for an Anschutz 54.
    Happy days.

    • David,

      You are the first person I have heard of who actually used these Mossbergs when they were new. I learned to shoot in the 1950s on Springfield M2 1922 target rifles and Winchester 52’s but the Mossbergs are a decade before my time.

      I will be testing this one for all of you this year, so maybe you will meet an old friend?

      B.B.

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