by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Webley Mark VI BB revolver.
This report covers:
• Longevity
• The gun
• Velocity
• Double-action
• Back to single-action
• How many good shots on a cartridge?
• Trigger-pull
• Evaluation so far
We received a lot of comments on Part 1 of this report. Apparently, the Webley Mark VI BB revolver resonates strongly with a large number of readers. Most are very positive, but a few of you really dislike this BB pistol. Their biggest complaint is that it costs too much for a BB pistol.
I say, if you feel that way, just don’t buy it. The airsoft companies who are making these realistic replicas are coming from their world of 6mm plastic balls, and 4.3mm steel BBs are a lot easier to make than rifled BB guns. Some people think the only difference is a rifled barrel, but they overlook the hundreds of thousands of dollars that must be invested plus the time learning to make rifled barrels by the tens of thousands. Sure, anybody who is competent can rifle 10 or even 50 barrels a month, but these companies need barrels in far larger numbers, and that’s not only an investment in production capability, but also in expertise. Just ask Crosman about learning to rifle accurate PCP barrels. It took them years to make the transition, and they still buy barrels for several of their guns.
All I’m saying is that instead of cursing the darkness — light a candle! If you think the guns cost too much for what they are, don’t buy ’em! But, please, let the rest of us enjoy what we have instead of carping about what isn’t there.
Longevity
Speaking of enjoying the pistol, I made the remark last week that all pot metal airguns will eventually wear out. Sooner, if you use them a lot! A new blog reader who calls himself Chris, USA asked about this, and the question has come up before, so I’m going to do a blog on this subject this week. In fact, the more I consider it, this report might have to have more than one part because it’s a really deep subject!
But enough of the past. Let’s get to today’s test, which is the velocity of the big Webley. And first I want to clear up some details of the firearm.
The gun
One reader said the Mark VI front sight is adjustable for elevation — similar to what I showed you on the Cody Thunderbird revolver last month. There’s a screw on the right side of the front sight blade, and when I saw it I assumed it was for that purpose. Then, another reader warned me to leave that screw alone. It’s there for blade replacement — not for height adjustment. He said that screw was commonly lost in the field and was an armourer’s (UK readers — please note and appreciate the spelling) nightmare to keep up with.
The screw on the front sight of the Webley Mark VI is not for adjustment. It holds the sight blade in place.
I told you that the man who loaned me the Mark VI revolver was Johnny Hill — yes, the same guy who owns the Diana 45 we looked at last Friday. Well, he’s also loaned me a Webley Mark I revolver of his that was converted to .45 ACP.
Webley Mark I is an earlier version of the big revolver. Originally chambered for .455, this one has been altered to take .45 ACP or .45 Auto Rim cartridges.
Though the Mark I grip looks different than the grip on the Mark VI, the Mark I is very similar in most respects.
Johnny offered to let me shoot both revolvers and even provided some ammo that was loaded with lead bullets. I didn’t shoot them, though, for a couple reasons. No. 1 is that the .45 ACP is a hotter round than the .455, and both these revolvers are a little loose. I’m sure they’re safe, but they don’t need me straining them any farther. Also, the .455 bore is so large that it needs larger bullets for accuracy. I didn’t want to take the time to load any ammo. Besides, I plan to own a Mark VI of my own at some point. Then, I’ll have all kinds of time to check it out.
Velocity
Let’s turn to the big Webley BB pistol and see what it can do. First up are the Daisy Premium Grade BBs that are sort of the standard. This revolver is both single- and double-action, so I tested it both ways. For each test, I averaged the velocity for 6 BBs since that’s a full cylinder.
The BBs are pressed into the nose of each replica bullet by hand. This takes some time, but it goes pretty smoothly — no special technique involved.
Place the BB on the plastic bullet (left) and press in with your thumb until it pops in place (right).
A little tip when loading the BBs is to use a strong magnet to hold them. You can then pick them off one at a time and it keeps them off the floor.
I use a magnet on the back of a flashlight to hold BBs until I’m ready to load them.
Shooting single-action (manually cocking the hammer before every shot), the first 6 Daisy BBs averaged 422 f.p.s., with me shooting the gun every 10 seconds or so. The high was 428 and the low was 410 f.p.s. Since the first few shots are often faster after installing a new CO2 cartridge, I shot a second cylinderful.
The second cylinder of Daisy BBs, also shot single-action, averaged 415 f.p.s. The high was 427 f.p.s. and the low as 405 f.p.s. The high seems to remain constant, but the low number does drop a little after the first shots have been fired.
Double-action
Next, I tried 6 rounds double action (pulling the trigger to advance the cylinder, cock the hammer and fire). Many CO2 guns very a lot between the two mode of fire, but the Mark VI doesn’t seem to. As before I allowed 10 seconds between each shot. Daisy BBs averaged 406 f.p.s. The fastest shot went 411 and the slowest went 400 f.p.s.
We can see that the gun works nearly the same in either mode. However, I do notice a decline in velocity as the shots advance in each string, so shooting as fast as you can pull the trigger will really slow things down!
Back to single-action
I’ve moved on, and for the remainder of this test all shooting was done single-action with 10 seconds between shots. Next, I shot Crosman Copperhead BBs. Six of them averaged 419 f.p.s. with a spread from 410 to 427 f.p.s. They’re right with the Daisys.
After that, I shot the new Hornady Black Diamond BBs that I started testing last week. They averaged 417 f.p.s. and ranged from a low of 406 to a high of 427 f.p.s. So, they are hanging in there with the Daisy and Crosman BBs.
Then, I loaded 6 Umarex Precision Steel BBs and tried them. They averaged 415 f.p.s. and ranged from a low of 399 to a high of 427 f.p.s. It was at this point in the test that I noticed the power was starting to drop off. The first shot was as fast as the others, but the velocity dropped farther over the next 5 shots. At the end of the Umarex BBs, a total of 36 BBs had been shot on the same CO2 cartridge.
The final BB I tested was the Avanti Precision Ground Shot that we use in the Avanti Champion 499 BB gun. They averaged 408 f.p.s. and ranged from 394 to 421 f.p.s. Power was definitely declining by this point, and 42 total shots had been fired.
How many good shots on a cartridge?
After all of this, I loaded Daisy Premium Grade shot and continued shooting. Shot 43 went 393 f.p.s., and shot 50 went 335 f.p.s. No. 54 was the last shot I fired. It went out at 274 f.p.s. By this time, I could definitely hear the decline. In total, I got 9 full cylinders of shots on a cartridge. If I’d been shooting as fast as I could pull the trigger, you can figure that total would have dropped back to around 40, or so.
Trigger-pull
The single-action trigger-pull is also single-stage. It’s smooth and breaks at 3 lbs., 12 oz. The double-action pull is equally smooth and breaks at 6 lbs., 3 oz. That’s very light for a double-action pull.
Evaluation so far
As you can see, the Webley Mark VI is pretty hot. That affects the shot count, of course. But I’m surprised by how little it slows down during sustained fire. As long as you wait those 10 seconds between shots, the gun is very stable.
The best way to tell the difference between this BB gun and the firearm is by the finish. If it’s pristine, it’s a BB gun, unless it happens to be a valuable collector-grade firearm.
If it also turns out to be accurate at 5 meters, that will be a bonus, but those of us who like the form already have the justification for getting one.
BB, you have reported getting good groups from your smoothbore Diana 25 . If the Webley and other similar BB guns were able to fire pellets, would they be more accurate than the ones that only shoot BB,s? Several airgun brands make air rifles that can shoot pellets and BB,s. Why cant they make pistols that can do the same? Ed
Ed,
Now that is a strategy that hasn’t been discussed. Perhaps it might work, if the Webley bore is large enough.
B.B.
BB,
I made a pellet sizing die to size .177 pellets, to shoot them in a Daisy Red Ryder. Size them, then muzzle load it backwards. Much more accurate than shooting BBs.
Andre,
Please tell us more!
B.B.
I took a round piece of steel, and drilled a .177 hole in it with a common high speed steel drill bit using a drill press. Then polished the die using some sandpaper just to smoothen it out a little. Push the pellets through using a cam action clamp for woodworking machines, remove the rubber tip and made a metal point to push on the flat at the bottom of the pellet skirt. The die and pellet pusher are attached to a steel plate, and made a wooden stand to hold it vertically to put a container under it. A fancy contraption for a simple job.
It is more accurate than BBs, haven’t used it in awhile but might be able to get some targets to you if you are interested in doing an article on the concept.
Andre,
Actually I was thinking about you doing the article. It doesn’t have to be long — just enough to show us what you have done and how it works.
B.B.
I’d love to write a blog. The Red Ryder is not in the best of shape but it should do. How can I contact you to submit the post? Should be ready in a week or so, Christmas is coming up and might hinder things.
Thanks!
One thing to be careful of when muzzle loading a Red Ryder by pushing pellets in from the front is that if you push it to far you will have to disassemble the gun to remove the pellet so the gun will operate again. If the pellet goes in to far it will jam up the gun.
They do.
Crosman Vigilante CO2 Revolver.10 round pellet, 6 round BB.
Has anyone tried lead bb’s in the Webley Mark VI
BB, I meant smooth bore pistols that can fire BB,s and pellets. Ed
Ed,
Some manufacturers do. I used to have a Crosman that did. What I found is that it shot pellets pretty good and BBs pretty bad. It had a rifled barrel, but that was not the problem. Pellets are .177 +/- and BBs are .173 +/-.
RR
Did you get to shoot any of those JSB pellets Sunday?
It was too breezy to be able to do any meaningful shooting.
RR
Yep no sense in wasting pellets or time if its windy.
Has anyone tried lead bb’s in the Webley Mark VI
B.B., when you wrote about the trigger pull on this pistol, I could still remember the feel of my own Mark VI firearm’s trigger release.
What modification is required to allow the Mark VI to fire .45 ACPs, other than half or full moon clips? I wasn’t aware any further mod was required (of course, I was 12 when I owned mine and I’m 68 now).
—Joe
Joe,
If you look at the picture of the Mark 1 you will see a gap between the back of the cylinder and the frame. The cylinder has been machined down to accept the clips.
Joe,
As Ridgerunner said, the rear of the cylinder has to be shaved a bit. The way to tell is if there are no marks on the back of the cylinder, it has probably been done.
B.B.
Has anyone tried lead bb’s in the Webley Mark VI
BB, I am already in love with this Webley revolver. As a shooter, I learned very early in my “career” that one should never shoot a collector’s piece. Many pretty common types are fairly rare in my country, so there are many “collectibles” around that no owner has the pleasure to shoot. With a BB replica like this, nobody has to wonder if you are destructing a collector’s gun, you just go and enjoy it (and spend a lot less in ammo!).
I think I’ve already mentioned it, but I am an airsofter, and I tend to prefer the airsoft plastic 6mm version over the .177 steel BB version of any given replica airgun. This was the case with the Dan Wesson revolver, of which I have a copy in 6mm. Which made me think: what are the performance differences between the two versions? Would the steel BB have any advantage over the plastic 6mm BB in accuracy or range? Obviously, if one thinks about skirmishing, only plastic BB’s are allowed, but at the velocities achieved by this Webley (considering the airsoft version to shoot at about the same levels), it would be too hot for most fields anyway, so the owner can only using it for target and plinking. Would you consider a future report on a comparison of two replicas, 6mm X .177?
Fred_BR,
You have suggested a good comparison test. A BB gun against its airsoft equivalent. I will look into it.
B.B.
I own a Mk VI (deactivated of course, UK ;laws, but which dry fires) and apart from the freshness of the surfaces I can feel very little difference between that and the trigger pull on the replica. It has been very well done, but then given the advances in airsoft (upon which this is based) I would be surprised otherwise.
The break-top action might be a concern regarding wear, this was of course one of the reasons the swing out cylinder was eventually adopted (Webley was experimenting with these in the 1880s I believe). The Webley stirrup clip, which holds the whole thing together, was fairly fool proof, but nevertheless one wonders how much wear the soft metal copy will take. interested to see the forthcoming report BB.
Oliver,
You have guessed correctly that the loose Webley firearm has given me pause to consider wearout in firearms, in general. They do wear out, and some do it very fast.
B.B.
Now that is an interesting topic. The only gun I’ve heard of that has a shot limit to the receiver is the M1 carbine. For other guns, parts wear out and get replaced. Do other firearms have shot limits? I seem to remember that the 1911 is limited to 250,000 shots but am not sure.
Matt61
Gotta’ say,
The idea of “wearing-out” the receiver of a true firearm, stressed to repeatedly withstand [ a bazzilion or more] “stress events” is just plain stupid. YOU could not possibly afford to do that, at least not at the level of $.25 to $3.00 factory cartridges a shot. However, it’s entirely possible to abuse the firearm to the point of failure in a number of ways, to include:
-overloading reloads
-plugged barrels
-trying to force .40 caliber rounds down .36 caliber barrels
-improper propellants
-improper projectiles
-failure to acknowledge basic loading techniques (load the cartridge with the bullet pointing the direction you want it to go as opposed to your own eye. (Nobody really likes the patchless Pirate look.
-failure to have a person with at least a single-digit IQ supervising
-failure to have a person with at least a double-digit IQ supervising
-failure to have a person with basic common sense supervising. (See YouTube.)
As witness’ to my thesis, note my 1943 M1 Carbine, 1943 M1 Garand, and my well over 100 year old 1903 Springfield (1908,) happily today pooting rounds downrange with complete aplomb. All well over the several (or more) 1000 round mark, all well cared for and not abused.
No anticipated failures anytime soon.
But then, that’s not the internet, just real-life and experience talkin’.
B.B.
I look forward to your report on “longevity of pot metal air guns”. Between my neighbors and I, we have 7 Walther CP88’s and several Smith & Wesson M & P pellet pistols. We shoot combat style targets and go through a lot of pellets. How many” Not sure, but I have a cardboard box full of empty tins and spent CO2 canisters.
We have had problems with the CP88’s, but have been able to solve most of them. There is a very small wire spring inside the right grip handle that has to be “tweaked” occasionally to keep the double action mode at full power. I also discovered a low power problem that happened when the CO2 canisters were not punctured completely.
Other than that, these pistols have had regular use and many thousands of pellets shot through them. I am curious as to how long we can expect them to last.
Jerry,
It’s coming this week, as promised. So is that other thing. Should leave here today.
B.B.
I too will be interested in this.
A couple of years back I purchased a GSG 1911 .22, one of the .22LR 1911’s that are very popular.
When I researched the gun I found, literally, a ton of positive reviews by people who had purchased the gun.
I also found a number of reviews claiming how the slide was ‘potmetal’ and how anyone who purchased one was headed for a certain catastrophic slide failure…how the gun was certain to blow up at some point.
All I know is mine has 20000+ rounds through it and functions as new.
When I research the gun now I still find tons of happy users…and the same 1/2 dozen people, none of whom actually claim to own a GSG advising potential purchasers of the sorrow they are in for.
CSD,
Thanks for that data point! It really helps.
B.B.
As with different types of steel, one can assume not all pot metals are created equal. Schimels are notoriously fragile, while I’d bet an Umarex 586 is almost as durable as real steel. At least the cylinders seem VERY hefty and hard.
Michael
Okay…since you asked 😉
I’ve never heard of a catastrophic slide failure in a GSG 1911 or a any modern firearm with ‘potmetal’…it’s real name is Zamak.
When I did my research I found that the guns blowing up all seemed to relate to instance of some of the older ‘Saturday night specials’ from the 50’s and 60’s.
Further research showed that there are actually 4 or 5 grades of Zamak..some good only for Mattel hot wheels and some actually quite good with much higher amount of aluminum in the mix.
Anyhoo, the one item that some people did mention was the slide stop detent…how after many thousands of firings the detent would become rounded and would not allow the slide to stay open on the last round…which isn’t that big a deal as some of the .22 1911’s don’t offer this feature, nor do most .45 to .22 conversions.
However, after the 20000 rounds or so my GSG has seen there is a minute rounding of the metal in this area, but the pistol still locks back solidly.
And even if it did become an issue, a new slide for the GSG is only about $65.
I also have the Umarex 1911. This gun likely has 50000 rounds thru it and it as never failed.
I truly think (I guess I’m biased here) that though real steel is definitely stronger than Zamak, at the pressures we’re talking about with a pellet pistol or a .22, the average gun will still outlast it’s owner.
Hope this helps a bit.
Ridgerunner- The Daisy M14 shoots good groups with pellets at 10m and also shoots good groups with BB,s at 10-15″. Why cant pistols shoot as well ? Ed
Tom,
This is one incredible air gun! So it has an authentic look and feel, it gets a lot of shots per powerlet, and it’s got some real zip. For me one of the best things is it also has a light trigger! If it is also decently accurate, this would be the round bore, BB equivalent of the Umarex S&W 586.
Like the 586 it does cost an awful lot, putting it out of the reach for most folks. But wow, this is an example of getting what you pay for (and having to pay for it — this is not a bargain, value-for-the-buck prize like the Umrarex NXG APX or Crosman 1077).
But the realities of manufacturing-marketing-distibution-retailing economics require it to be pricey. The 1077 and NXG APX are very good performers despite all of the plastic. All of the plastic is what allows retailers to sell them cheap and still make at least a modest profit per unit. I’ll bet the margin for retailers is pretty small for this high-end Webley relica, too. It’s a tough business world out there to make and sell things. It isn’t the “licence to print money” like large investment banks or big insurance companies have. They operate without risk, but except for Wally-World, retailers and those who make what they put on their shelves are year-to-year and month-to-month, online and bricks-and mortar both. How many empty stores are there in the strip mall down the road? How many abandoned small factories on the outskirts of town?
Michael
Tom,
Off-topic, but my mention of the Umrarex NXG APX above got me thinking about it again. Pellet-wise it has some serious competition at its price-point. But that group you got with BBs!
Every time I shoot my Avanti 499 at 25 feet or less, I wish it had the power of my Red Ryder. Then I could plink aluminum cans in the backyard at 40 feet. Granted, the Red Ryder does it, but off-hand I’m disappointed with more misses than I’d like. 3 or 4 pumps into the NXG APX might do it! Yes, smooth bore/round ball accuracy drops of precipitously as distances increase, but still, we’re talking about pop cans.
Michael
Michael, if you are looking for bb smooth bore accuracy at a little longer ranges, check out the Umarex EBOS ( a little high at $130) or the Umarex MORPH ($80) that B.B. tested. Both did very well. That said, you may not be wanting to deal with CO2. Bradly
B.B.
I have almost no experience shooting powder burners, how does the trigger weight on the Webley compare to a typical powder burner revolver? Most of my rifles have triggers that break at 2 lbs or less so that is my reference point.
Also are extra plastic bullet things available? I’m liking this gun so far can’t wait for the accuracy report in part 3.
David
David,
The single action pull is lighter than any Webley firearm. The double action pull is lighter than a top tuned revolver trigger.
At this time there are no extra cartridges for this revolver, but they are expected soon.
B.B.
The extra cartridges are a must. They should ship these with at least 12 . Wonder if any centerfire speedloaders will work with these cartridges? Am impressed that the fps exceeds 400, pretty decent. The crystal ball says there is one of these in my future
This Webley brings to mind a scene from the movie “Sahara”. The Nigerian war-lord lectures his victim about his 455 Webley before shooting him with it. It was the perfect bad guy’s gun: huge, intimidating, ugly.
A good pistol that could shoot both bb’s and pellets was the GAMO P23. That was the gun I accidentally shot a hole through my back door with. I had put a new CO2 cartridge in it and was trying to dry-fire it. I checked the bb magazine and saw that it was empty, but forgot I had left a pellet loaded in the breech.
Les
B.B.
I am curious about the tried and true, industry standard, breech/chamber dimensions of an airgun. Do they differ according to the type of power plant used? For example a spring/gas piston as opposed to a pneumatic/PCP, or are they all the same? Could you furnish me with a blueprint of such, or a link to this information?
I own three high powered factory air rifles which are untuned and untamed, specifically, a RWS 48 .177, a RWS 460 .22 and a Xisico XS46U .177 with a gas piston. Ideally, I wish to shoot these at 50 yards and beyond. I prefer the heavier pellets in the 10 to 11 grain range for the .177s, maybe they could handle more. Time will tell. I haven’t shot the .22 much as of yet.
What are your recommendations for holding and supporting these airguns when shooting from a bench rest in order to get the best accuracy from them?
Bugbuster,
To get a blueprint of airgun chamber dimensions, you’ll have to draw it yourself. This information is almost never shared.
Standards? There are some loose ones, and also some ANCI ones that are sort of adhered to. But not for the breech or chamber. I could write a blog about bore dimensions and breeches. For instance, are you aware that AirForce provides a leade at the breech, so longer pellets can be loaded in the Condor?
Hol;d all three guns with the artillery hold for best accuracy. Especially the two Dianas. I’m not familiar with the Xisico, but if it is a breakbarrel, then it will also need the artillery hold.
B.B.
First of all, the Webley sure looks like a nice replica revolver. For those folks who can afford them, more power to them.
This is off the subject a bit BB, but I am still trying to break in a Benjamin Trail NP pistol. I have shot the suggested 250 rounds through it using the Winchester Target Cube. The question is, why don’t you give some teenager a minimum wage job of firing guns guns that will be tested a couple hundred or so shots. The kid would make a few bucks and you would be testing a gun that will be loosened up a bit, thus simulating a more real life shooting experience. I just love spending other folks money .
Harvey
Harvey,
It builds character, or so I’m told.
B.B.
This manufacturer, like for that matter the Walther LGV and possibly the FWB sporter, cannot be certain of returns, it’s a brave move replicating the Mk VI , I suspect they are looking to recoup all tooling costs within the one model release.
Hopefully it’ll take off well and economies of scale will edge in.
Very glad it’s got a bit more than the usual oomph, hopefully it will be 15 yard tin can accurate
Another film prominately starring the Webley MkVI is “Lawrence of Arabia,” with Peter O’Toole apparently attempting a low-earth orbit with the hapless Webley everytime he shoots somebody with it. There’s even a walk-on featuring a C96 Mauser with far too few lines. Great fun and well worth watching again. Get the BluRay version.
And I’m amazed no one mentioned the most obvious of all possible re-makes of famous blasters.
I’d be suprised if Daisy didn’t still have the dies in storage for the “Buck Rogers Ray Gun, of the 1930’s, (though I recall the first one being a pop-gun, anyway.)
Vote for BB shooting replicas of Buck Rogers/Flash Gordon/Captain Kirk and the rest of the gang’s weaponry!
Well I did end up getting one justifying it to the wife as a good supplement to my 45 ACP modified mkVI , and it is an interesting design. Very similar to the Webley firearm in construction, but modified to be more efficient with its power source. The lockup for the cylinder on the BB gun version is enhanced by having the BB barrel (contained within the look alike shroud) spring loaded and its tapered end moving back into the beveled face of each chamber making a gas tight fit. This helps to keep velocities a bit higher (and more consistent perhaps). At 20′ I was able to keep my groups offhand to about quarter size, once I focused on follow through. I was also pleasantly surprised that my groups were pretty much to point of aim, thanks to the somewhat taller stirrup latch/rear sight. I wonder if I just got lucky in this regard however, and look forward to BB’s full review.
BTW- You have illustrated a Mk I modified to .45 ACP. Please let the owner know that it is hazardous to fire smokeless powder in this revolver! The first mark designed for smokeless powder is the mk V. I have seen several of the earlier versions burst cylinders when firing smokeless powder.
Rich,
That’s good to know. I would load way down for any Webley, to the point that it was like shooting black powder. Trail Boss comes to mind.
B.B.
My old Mk I does well with black powder loads, but I don’t fire it much these days. The Mk VI I owned was generally fed .45 Auto Rim or shot loads, but I agree they should all be down loaded in deference to their age.
This gun looks like what I see in WWI films carried by British officers as they go over the top. Based on movie re-enactments it was used to threaten frightened soldiers on their own side as much as fight the enemy. I’m interested in the mystique of the Webley name. It’s a famous name although not much to look at. Perhaps its workmanship is in the fine British tradition of Air Arms products and the Lee-Enfield rifles. I understand that one reason that rifle did so well is because the British took care to use the very best steel in its construction–not irrelevant to the pot metal discussion. 🙂
Another visit to the range just completed. Oddly enough the Single Six was lagging behind the others. But with my SW 686 in .38 special and 1911 with the 185 gr. hollowpoints, I was getting my palm-sized groups at 15 yards, and I was actually hitting the target at 25 yards. Can someone remind me which way to turn the windage screw to move the sights left on the 686?
Unfortunately, there’s not much good news to report about the M1. Five jams in 48 rounds. I seem to be back to square one with my reloading theories. The rounds are just not rising high enough before the bolt comes forward. And the accuracy was not great either. 40 rounds went into three inches with the remainder forming a small group just outside. That would be more encouraging except the interior was divided into three distinct islands of groups. I was using the same aimpoint. My shooting may have been partly to blame. I had to concentrate to hold the rifle tightly unlike my familiar artillery hold, and I had trouble following through with the big recoil. But it wasn’t all me. I had also broken out my Savage 10FP for the first time in years with my Leapers scope, and the results were amazing. Shooting 50 rounds in four shot groups. (I didn’t want to bother with topping of the magazine to make five), all but one for no larger than 0.6 inches and one was .25 inches. This is the IZH 61 of the firearms world. I also attribute this to my greater experience working the rear bag under the buttstock. I notice that few people at the range use a rear bag. Many use bipods. I certainly makes a difference. I noticed a slight drop in concentration now that my practice rounds have been reduced by half. The Jaws of the Subconscious were more intermittent than before. But overall, it was a vindication for my 5 yard airgun laboratory showing that what happens there is almost entirely transferable to firearms at longer distances. 🙂
For the M1, I’m feeling like I have B.B.’s Ballard. The pieces are all there, but I can’t get this rifle to shoot up to its potential. I wondered if the magazine follower is wearing out since this is a rebuilt rack grade rifle whose original barrel showed a lot of use. Maybe metal fatigue is raising its head. On the other hand, that wouldn’t explain the radical differences in jam rate when I used the crimp. And the bolt closed very painfully on my fingers while cleaning which shows that some of the springs are working well. The new plan is to creep my way down in powder levels to see what happens and learn about reloading along the way.
Matt61
matt,
I obviously understand your frustration. My policy with Garands is to shoot them all and keep the accurate ones. I have let some good ones go, but only when a more accurate one came my way. Same with carbines.
B.B.
Thanks, B.B. I’m feeling isolated here with my custom rifle whose insides are known only to one man, now retired. 🙂 The ironies keep piling up. Clint Fowler noted how some Garands shoot well and some don’t. He claims to have solved the problem with his adjustable gas system that times the piston for each rifle and round. I thought I was putting down money for the ultimate answer, and now I’m trapped by my own customization. Well, I know you’ve seen all kinds of twist of fortune with your gun collection, and I suppose one must learn to become serene. I’ve been very lucky overall, and I haven’t given up on this rifle yet.
Matt61
Matt,
It is a shame that you don’t have a normal Garand. They are so nice and tractable. I hope you can resolve your rifle’s problems.
B.B.
Thanks. My mind is spinning with alternatives. I have contemplated sending the rifle in to have it converted back to a regular Garand which would at least be reliable. Or, I can always get another one. 🙂
Matt61
BB,
How is the Webley Mark VI BB revolver Finish? paint? or traditional firearm bluing?
Joe,
The finish looks like black Parkerizing. I have no idea what is.
B.B.
It appears to be some form of paint, it is not blued or parkerized neither of which will work on non-ferrous metals. It is not made of steel. The paint reminds me of the finish one finds on the Enfield No.2 Mk I that replaced the Webley. I did stick the BB pistol in my holster for my Mk VI and it did not immediately come off, but I did see an online review elsewhere, from the UK, that commented that the paint was starting to wear, but on the pistol shown it looked very minor.
I just got mine,I am very happy with it I ran two co2’s and got about the same shots as you did
before the velocity dropped.You are right if a person thinks it is too expensive Don’t Buy it”
I have seen lesser guns costing more than $199.00,You have to see it up front and I am sure
then they would like it or even buy it.The gun is made very nicely and I think it will take quite a long
time before it wears out.I have many guns that are made of the same metal and as long as
you are careful with them they’ll out last the owner.I have a Shimmel one of the first American
made co2 guns that used an 8gram soda cartridge instead of a bulk bottle in 1949 the toggle
did snap on this Luger styled pistol, But that was my fault and it is now only a wall hanger in my den.
I think sixty five years was a good run and it was my fault when I pulled back the toggle to
test it out.I have started a a sub collection of look-a-like Air guns and it breathes new life in me to
pursue another avenue of fun.I look forward to each new one,Now I saw the Nagant 1895
in silver and blue selling in the Euro Market, and even some Canadian Reviews of it on You-Tube
and it is a beauty,A company Called SMG may start to distribute them in Nortth America according
to the You-Tube Video.I hope Pyramid will soon get them to sell here”I’ll be first in line” they
they looked great especially the silver one,also on that video the same reviewer profiled a sawed off
version of the Nagant Russian rifle,The Co mentioned was called Glectchner or something close to it.
So in the coming months I better start a slush fund to satisfy my new habit. That I hope my better/half?
won’t see, So then I can pursue my latest vice without any questions.
The company is Gletcher. I would stick with pyramid. Bought a select fire Uzi ,and it sucked. Sent it back in 2 days. They weren’t terribly impressive, neither was the company.
Actually the company marketing them is Gletcher , sold in USA by SMG sales
I too am looking forward to the “pot-metal report! Seeing B.B.’s blogs, present and past, I’m sure it will be very informative. One blogger even commented on different levels/qualities of pot metal.
I was encouraged to see “Cowboy Star’s” comment on the Umarex 1911 with 50,000 shots and no problems. While it’s only a guess, I would guess that the “guts’ of the 1911 are the same as my Umarex Beretta 92FS.
As mentioned in a previous comment of mine, I’m pushing 2000 shots on the 92FS so far and it is still awesome! I did recently note that the hammer has about 1/8” of free play at rest as well as the right side safety, (on and off). I do not believe that this existed new, but not sure.
A mechanic for 30+ years, I would like to “get inside” for a clean/lube and a quick “look see”. If anyone has the basics on this I would appreciate the info. I would not be so foolish as to try trigger mods. etc.
Thanks and a good evening to all, Chris
B.B.,
I already own this Webley MarkVI and I will tell you I love it. That includes every aspect of the gun. I am more than optimistic about your accuracy test to come.
G&G
I’m calling foul on the cost issue!
It’s £199.00 here……and that’s pounds, not your monopoly money!……
And if 335 bucks isn’t too expensive for a smoothbore BB pistol, then I have a 1992 Ford for sale, yours at 50k
No matter how well respected your company is (and who knows who makes this) never forget…..the market sets the price, not you……..you can put any sticker you like on it……whether you keep your stock depends on Joe Schmoe……..been a lot of boarded up windows from those who have forgotten this
It is a lovely pistol to handle though
I hear you Dom! I spent a year in the UK, and the cost of living is mad indeed! Most prices have the same numbers, but the pound to dollar conversion is where one gets lost in translation (not to mention VAT!). I was also taken aback by the cost of airguns while there (most American brand items like Crosman or Daisy went for double what they sold for here in the States). Since all Webley products are now outsourced, the importers seem to be gouging the UK market a bit to say the least (unless importing requires additional fees into the UK). One would think that they would make up for a lower cost in volume of sales, the Mk VI being as iconic as it is there. I also wonder how the laws in regard to replica arms (which are very strict) would consider the air pistol version. Does this one require a FAC?
Strangely no, provided it shoots a pellet or BB, it can look like a firearm
Airsoft have to be brightly coloured unless you are registered with a club
You get the feeling that those in the halls of power are a bit baffled really.
I am really big on the longevity of airguns.
You might be at this a while.
I have a Dan Wesson BB revolver, the Witness 1911 BB pistol, and a Walther cp99 BB pistol.
A few months ago I posted a review on GTA. (Gateway To Airguns) after running 1000 rounds through all three.
The trigger got better on the Dan Wesson, but the others were about the same as before the test began.
We used a dot of pelgun oil on each cartridge, and using the Daisy Premium grade bbs, all three guns went without a hitch.
They are still being used and have well over 3000 rounds each.
I recently aquired a Umarex S&W M&P 40 BB pistol.
I handed it to my nephew and his friend with 40 crosman powerlets and a supply of Daisy Precision BBs one morning and told them to have fun at the range.
It came back, still working, and shooting and no co2 cartridges left…
As I said, you may be at this a while…
Ian
I used to have an old gun called a “Kragg.” At least that’s what somebody told me it was. It had something that looked like Russian writing engraved on it. It looked a lot like the Webley above. It had a side loading port, unlike the Webley top break.When you cocked it, the cylinder not only rotated, but moved forward against the breech of the barrel to make a tight gas seal. It had the lanyard ring like the Webley. I never fired it b/c it took some strange ammo. I can’t remember, but I think it was 7.5. mm. I had a ton of guns years ago and I gave many of them to my brother who is a collector. A lot of them were antiques. The alleged Kragg was among them.
G. Peterson,
Welcome to the blog.
Your revolver really sounds like a Nagant, which the Russians did use for a long time. The Nagant is somewhat unique because its cylinder moves forward to seal the rear of the barrel, for less gas loss. The 7.5mm cartridge has its bullet level with the mouth of the case.
B.B.
It sounds like the revolver in question is an 1895 Nagant gas seal revolver that was part of a collection that included a Krag Jorgansen rifle (which was known to most as a krag). Perhaps since many Nagants are unmarked it was referred to as “the revolver I got in trade for a krag” or somesuch by an owner who sold or passed it on in this way accidentally. I have run into a fair number of switched name attributions on foreign made militaria, especially on items that have come down from a purchase before the GCA of 1968 when swapping and trading was in full swing. It was also a pretty frequent occurrence when research was hard to come by (in the days before the internet).
Interestingly, I picked up a Nagant as part of a trade and didn’t fire it for a long time because of lack of ammo. Ironically, Nagant Ammo is now often the cheapest and most available stuff at my local gunshop.
What groupings did you get at 5 metres?
Cheers,
Chris.
Chris,
That is all shown in Part 3 of this report:
/blog/2014/12/webley-mark-vi-bb-revolver-part-3/
B.B.
O.k, thanks.
If it was rifled I wouldn’t be doing so much research, but not beeing a BB fan I’ve been searching the web for such information, without much success, so thanks very muchly!
Cheers,
Chris.