by Tom Gaylord
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
FWB Sport air rifle
This report covers:
• Selecting scope mounts
• Which scope?
• Air Arms Falcon pellets
• Shooting behavior
• JSB Exact 8.4-grain pellets
• Crosman Premier lite pellets
• Crosman Premier heavy pellets
• Conclusion to this point
Today, I’ll shoot the scoped Feinwerkbau Sport air rifle at 25 yards. We should see the rifle’s real potential.
Selecting scope mounts
You know the FWB has those half-round scope stop holes (see in Part 1) that require special scope mounts. I didn’t have any that fit. I thought I did, but mine were made for the UK-made Webley Patriot, and the two pins on the bottom are out of line with the FWB grooves. Fortunately, I did have several BKL mounts that hold with clamping pressure, alone. I selected the BKL 30mm high rings. Although they have only 1 strap with just 2 cap screws each, they held perfectly throughout the test.
Which scope?
For a scope, I selected an older UTG 8-32x that’s no longer stocked. The scope is 16-1/2 inches long and cleared the barrel by half an inch when the gun was cocked. The optics were clear and sharp, but I think a 4-16x would have done just as well.
When I mounted the scope I put one shim under the tube on the saddle of the rear ring to give me a little droop compensation. That was not enough. The test rifle is shooting about 12 inches low at 25 yards, and no amount of scope adjustment will correct for it. I should have used a BKL mount with droop compensation. AirForce calls it drop compensation, but it’s the same thing. But the scope has mil-dots, which I used to compensate as I shot. As you’ll see, they worked well.
Air Arms Falcon pellets
The first pellet I tried was the Falcon dome from Air Arms. It was used to sight-in the rifle and then to shoot the first 10-shot group. Ten Falcons went into 0.419 inches at 25 yards. I think that speaks well for the FWB pedigree.
Ten Falcons went into 0.419 inches at 25 yards. This rifle is accurate!
Shooting behavior
Knowing I was shooting an FWB breakbarrel, I used a classic artillery hold with my off hand just touching the triggerguard. The looser I held the rifle, the more it shot to the exact same place. This is also how I hold a vintage FWB 124. Given the additional power of the Sport, it felt like a good place to start. I never changed throughout the entire test.
The rifle is still in the process of calming down. It buzzed less in this test, except for one pellet that I’ll mention when I get there. The recoil is surprisingly small, given the power, and the trigger is incredible! The Sport is a very easy rifle to shoot accurately, as long as you use an artillery hold.
JSB Exact 8.4-grain pellets
The next pellet tested was the JSB Exact 8.4-grain dome. The second shot went wide and high, and I thought the test was finished, but the next 8 pellets landed together with the first one. So, 10 pellets made a 0.661-inch group, but 9 of them are in 0.410 inches. Not too different than the Falcons, except for that second pellet.
Ten JSB Exact 8.4-grain pellets went into 0.661 inches at 25 yards, with 9 in 0.41 inches.
I decided to use a mil-dot farther down on the vertical reticle to raise the group a little, and I also dialed in 5 clicks of left adjustment for the next group. I was not seasoning the barrel with shots prior to each group. I switched from one pellet to the next and recorded every shot.
Crosman Premier lite pellets
Next up were the Crosman Premier 7.9-grain domes. When the first shot went through the center of the bull, I knew I’d gotten the sight picture correct. This pellet seems to be the best of the 4 I tested in this rifle. But shot 8 went wide to the right and away from the group. It wasn’t called as a pull, but it does seem strange when you look at the other 9 shots. So, 10 are in 0.726 inches between centers, with 9 of them at 0.356 inches!
Ten Premier lites are in 0.726 inches, with 9 in 0.356 inches. This is amazing!
Crosman Premier heavy pellets
The last pellet I tried was the Crosman Premier 10.5-grain dome — the one we call the heavy. I thought these would do just as good or better than the lites, but from shot 2 onward, I knew they weren’t going to. First of all, they landed way to the left of where the lites were hitting, though the same sight picture was used. And they gave me a scattered 0.782-inch group. If I’d been testing a Chinese springer, I’d be dancing in the street with a group like this, for it does show a lot of potential; but I think you can see from the other groups I shot that it doesn’t do the Feinwerkbau justice. It’s true that 8 shots are in 0.473 inches; but with the other three pellets to choose from, I don’t think I would use these.
This is also the pellet that vibrated the rifle more when fired. That probably means the piston is bouncing, and that isn’t good.
Ten Premier heavies are in 0.782 inches, with 8 in 0.473 inches. It shows the FWB’s pedigree, but there are more accurate pellets.
Conclusion to this point
The new FWB Sport is just as accurate as we all hoped it would be. It’s a breakbarrel springer, which means shooting technique has to be used, but you’ll be rewarded with results. Be cognizant of the barrel droop when selecting scope mounts.
Vibration continues to decline, though I doubt it’ll ever go away completely. A tune is in order. The trigger is one of the best sporting triggers on the market, though not as refined as the Rekord or the trigger on an Air Arms springer. But the shape and size of the Sport rifle is just about as good as it gets — at least for me.
I think this rifle has earned the right to a 50-yard test, so there will be one more report coming. Stay tuned!
It sure did put out some nice groups!
I will admit it does shot good even though it id still buzzing and that would need to be fixed for me to own one, but at 900 dollars that just is noting to happen for me.
Buldawg
Did you get your shoebox yet?
Gunfun
You already no that answer and it will be up and filling bottles tomorrow.
Buldawg
buldawg
At 6:12pm to be exact. 🙂
And I’m interested to see what you think about it and that gauge you found. Oh and how you end up cleaning up the weld on the hi-pac.
And the picture you sent me of your regular compressor is almost like mine that I use with my Shoebox. The one I got is red and the one you got looks black in the picture anyway. It is a oil-less compressor right?
Gunfun
Yea I am interested on how the guage works, I have it set with a male and female fosters on either end so I can use when filling my bottles and also when filling the guns also.
The welds on the hipacs I hope will clean up good using my buddies lathe to just remove the area on the tubes outer diameter so the bands will slide on and off with out having to unscrew the tubes. I am not worried about the appearance at the bung to hipac tube appearance just want the bands to go on like they did before welding. Then I will cold blue the whole tube so it looks consistent and that is all it will get. I will send you a pic when they are done.
The compressor is black and is made by All American power as has a 3.8 cfm output at 90 psi so it should not have to run much. It is oil-less and I took the plastic cover off the motor and the rod is exposed so you can see the bottom of the piston and it has fans on both ends to cool the electric motor and piston cylinder and head. The rod rotates an a sealed ball bearing so it looks pretty well built.
I will have it running tomorrow, I just want to get a 90 degree fitting for the hose coming of the oil-les compressor down to the filter and then over to the shoebox. I have a 3 foot rubber air hose that I am going to take top my local hydraulic hose maker and have him cut the hose to put a 1/4 male nipples in the middle of the hose so I can have the filter in the middle with the shortest length of hose as possible. That way I can attach the filter onto the oil-less compressor so it will be secured and easy to drain and service.
Buldawg
Gunfun
You still thinking about the optimus from GB or are you looking at something else.
buldawg
buldawg
I’m kind of undecided right now. That TX200 MRKlll keeps popping up in my mind. I’m just holding off right now.
But there is one thing that bothers me about the TX. Pyramyd AIR doesn’t accept any of the discount codes that give you 10% off. Same with this FWB sport BB is reviewing. I think that make things a little more appealing if they offered that discount.
I would probably already have a TX if they offered a 10% off plus free shipping over 150 bucks. In the meantime I’m just saving up my bullseye bucks and hoping that the rain happens on the 25th of this month. I got a 20% check coming from a 700 dollar order if it rains. So no money spending for me right now. I’m just setting back and saving. I guess thats the thing about those kind of specials they do like the if it rains deal. Now I dont spend I just wait.
Gunfun
I would wait to and see if it rains for your 20% back, besides the optimus still has 21 days left in the auction so you can wait to see if it rains and still have time to bid if you decide to.
Why does PA not give 10% off and free shipping on the TX or FWB they are both well over the 149.00 dollar mark. It is not right that they pick and choose which ones they allow free shipping and 10% off on like that. If it were me and it rains on the 25th I would get the TX because as you said a spring gun can be tuned where as a gas gun cannot be as easily and there are a lot of tuning options for the TX out there in the aftermarket.
Buldawg
Buldawg,
Why would you say, “It is not right that they pick and choose”? Pyramyd AIR is a private company and can choose to make offers or not make offers. If it’s not their right, then whose right is it?
Edith
Edith and BB
I figured there was reasons why Pyramyd AIR does what it does. And I know there are company’s that will not come off of what they sale. And I’m not talking only air gun companies. But I have seriously passed on getting the TX just because of the discount reason.
And don’t take this as a threat but as I guess maybe information. There is other mail order companies that I wont mention that do sell the TX at the same price as Pyramyd AIR and do allow 10% off coupons and free shipping sales on the TX. I kind of got a idea what the answer to this question is. But how are they marking it down? Who are they getting there products from? And maybe that’s a answer that cant be given for the public to know.
I just wish Pyramyd AIR would offer it. I have purchased guns and things from other air gun companies and it just seems that Pyramyd AIR takes a little more time to make things right. I wont order pellets from another company just because of they way they pack their pellets. So what I’m trying to say is that I would like to do my business with Pyramyd AIR and spread the word that they are the company of choice. Do you see what I mean. It just that one little extra thing if that discount was there.
Edith
I was only meaning that it should be as uniform as possible and I do understand that the seller has the right to stipulate what is or is not discounted. I guess it is another case where my fingers got ahead of my mind and makes me have to eat crow as I did not look at it like that and also as BB said I did not realize that some manufactures put price restrictions on their products. I guess I would think that when a company like PA for example buys the product to resell it should be up to them if they discount it or not, but it also does not make sense to discount it if they would lose money doing so.
I was not trying to infer that PA did not have the right to sell what they have for any price they see fit or was being unfair I just did not understand why it was done like that and thought it was because they are higher end guns.
I was not trying to make any one mad , but now understand that it is not all up to PA on the pricing issue.
buldawg
Buldawg,
I don’t think you made anyone mad. I have a habit of speaking my mind. I guess I need to add more smiley faces to my comments 🙂
Pyramyd AIR can discount some products — but not others.
Years ago, I used to work for an online retailer who sold military surplus & ammo. One day, they got a call from a very well-known American scope maker who told them that any of their scopes sold by that retailer would not have their manufacturer warranties honored. Why? Because that retailer discounted the scopes. So, they had to increase all their prices.
Edith
Edith
I did not think I made you mad but just wanted to be sure you were aware that it was not my intent to do so.
I was just going from the practice that most automotive retailers and Harley does with their products in that they sell the vehicles to the dealer for a set price and then it is up to the dealer as to whether or not they sell said vehicle at MSRP or above or below that figure. The dealers get a huge markdown from the manufacture for their cost so even if they sell it to you below MSRP they are still making money.
An example would be a Harley sportster that MSRP is 9,995.00, the dealer pays roughly 6000.00 dollars for that bike so even if they sell it to you for 8000.00 dollars they still make 2000.00 dollars. The discount that each Harley dealer gets is based on their sales volume so the more they sell the less they pay for the bikes they buy.
Buldawg
Buldawg,
You may not be aware of this, but every vendor (FWB, AirForce, Crosman) has stipulations about how their products can be sold. Some of these are that no product may be reduced in price below a minimum level. If a company does reduce the item without permission, they risk loosing the account.
B.B.
BB
No I was not aware of that and please see my response to Edith above as I was not trying to infer that PA is unfair, but just did not understand as to why they do not discount certain items until now.
Thanks for the clarification.
Buldawg
buldawg
I have to discipline myself this time and I have to make the next air gun a TX mrklll. I could of done it more than once already. I know it will be my favorite springer when I get it.
So looks like more overtime for me because I don’t have anything to sell anymore. I like everything I got.
Right now my biggest problem is I have to choose which one I want to shoot. I had 5 air guns out at one time last Sunday shooting. And that was just me shooting. My wife and kids weren’t even shooting. But I’m sure I could squeeze the TX into the mix. 🙂
Gunfuin
Yea I am on the discipline thing now after buying the two compressors myself and it is not easy when there is so much I still want, it goes back to the wants versus needs issue and I just have to wait just like you until I can sell some more stuff or get a side job to make some more fun money.
I know my next gun will be a Synrod and then I will have to see from there.
Buldawg
buldawg
I’m glad that you got the Synrod in your mind as your next choice. I’m 99.9% sure you will be happy when you get one. And if you go with the .25 cal. like you talked about you will be amazed with its performance. And everybody should have at least one nice .25 cal. on hand. 🙂
Gunfun
Yep it is definitely the next one and 25 cal for sure also.
I am waiting till this afternoon when I have to pick my 21 year old grandson from school and take him to work to get the fitting for my shoebox as Lowes is right next to where he works so I can kill 2 birds with one stone.
Buldawg
buldawg
Good deal let me know when you get things rolling.
BB and AIR GUNNERS
It keeps getting harder to find fault with this Feinwerkbau Sport after reading each successive test you perform. And at 25 meters, I had a hunch you would produce the type of groups displayed in the pictures. The rifle is showing it’s Feinwerkbau heritage through and through. As a self confessed trigger nut, I would love to feel the difference between it and the Reckord triggers I have grown accustomed to. About the only gripe I can come up with is the price tag. When tax is added to the final tally, we are looking at a $1000.00 bill. A number that gives one pause when realizing it is the price of two HW95’s!! However, if and when this FWB becomes available north of the 49th, I will most likely forget such comparisons, and become the proud, slightly giddy owner of my first ever FWB. After all, it is hard to find fault with perfection.
Ciao
Titus
Titus,
I know you can’t feel this trigger through the internet, so I will describe it to you, in comparison to a Rekord.
A Rekord feels light and almost too easy to fire the gun when it is set that way. It is crisp, but is also surprisingly light.
The FWB trigger is very solid, yet also light. It breaks with a crisp release — crisper and less surprising than the Rekord. It is a more predictable release, yet it breaks at the same light weight the Rekord can be set to.
Of course a Rekord can be set much lighter than the FWB trigger, and I have owned some that broke at 8 oz., but that is too light. I could barely feel stage one and where it paused at stage 2, because the return spring was set too light. The target Rekord found on the HW55 is more positive and controllable when it gets that light.
B.B.
As for faults, how about the persistent buzz? At this price, that’s a bit much too tolerate. I was glad to tune my $150 B30, but a $1000 rifle is different. Other than that, I agree with you.
Matt61
Tom,
Wanted to thank you and your better half for all the lurkers who read the blog, the guilty know who you are! Another reader,s comment put me on to your “Remember When” serialized stories c.2005. Started my happy relationship with PA with a TX200 refurb, so I have to have been reading without giving back for at least 5yrs, shame on me! Tough to be a writer with out feedback! I am truly sorry for the 99 percent who enjoy this and leave no tracks, I speak for all when I say Thank You! Ms E, I suspect you are the one who makes and keeps this blog the class act it is, thank you!
Schools,
Welcome to the blog, and thanks for the feedback!
B.B.
This rifle is turning out to be everything I expected. I have to admit that I have paid close to that much for a used Feinwerkbau in the past. However, as Titus has pointed out, the price tag on this air rifle is considerably higher than the competition which is in the same performance category. In addition, you have to factor in the price of a tune unless you can live with the “buzz” and how it settles out with time.
It would be nice to think Feinwerkbau would read this and other reviews, most especially some of our thoughts on the matter. However, my experience with Feinwerkbau tends to make me think that is not likely going to happen. It is their opinion that no one but a Feinwerkbau trained technician is capable of working on any airgun that they have manufactured and will not provide any assembly/disassembly information concerning any of their products, not even on something as old as a FWB300.
I can buy a TX200 MKIII with walnut stock AND a decent scope and mounts for the price of this air rifle. I seriously doubt one of these will end up in my “collection”.
RR,
Pyramyd AIR contacted me yesterday with a field fix for the FWB that I will be doing in the next report. Apparently there is a way to eliminate the buzz without taking the action apart.
B.B.
BB,
Is that field fix from FWB or did PA come up with it?
I ask this because the answer will show whether Feinwerkbau is even paying attention to what is going on out in the real world.
RR,
It’s from Pyramyd.
B.B.
I wonder if it involves a syringe?
I bet vasline I meant molly and tooth brush
I just got an email from FWB and they said:
We are very sorry that the noise of our spring-driven air rifle Model Sport is too loud for you.
Please be assured that in the meantime we have sold a lot of these rifles but never received any complaint about the noise it makes.
Mr. Tom please let me know about the fix, the spring noise is so annoying that every time I look at $900 sitting in my safe I grab my R11, HW97K, or TX200MK3 instead and just shake my head.
As a side not spacers in the stock helps keep it from rubbing when you cock her.
RidgeRunner,
2 reasons FWB will not bring their price down…(1) The cost of producing a product in Germany is even higher than the U.S., forget China. The beauty of a socialistic system. (2) They are also selling their Feinwerkbau name.
Oh, I am well aware of what goes on over in Germany. Our company owns a facility over there.
I think its because what the uro did to dollar..
I agree. The ultimate spring rifle for about the half the price of this one is tough competition.
Matt61
RR
I have had a 124 apart for a rebuild and can tell you there is nothing any different inside it than most any other spring gun. The quality of the metal and finish inside the compression chamber and the piston surfaces may be a little smoother than some of the lower priced guns, but it in my opinion is not 900 dollars better. I will concede that the 124 I built was a 70 model and am still seeking to buy it from its current owner when jhe is ready to part with it. I have no idea what he would want for it but I do know it will be no where near 900 dollars and it has no unusual noises when fired.
That is the one I want to own.
Buldawg
Wanted to share my afternoon. Fellow Maryland escapee, livin in WV on edge of apple orchard, nearest neighbor is 300 yds away. Can shoot out to 450 off the porch with Norfolk Southern tracks at 275, and a 5 mile view of the notch at Harper Ferry. Got the grand girlies red ryders a while back, what a hoot! Iron sights and instinctive shooting! They shoot like grandma, deadly! Had to haul deer that got hit on road back in the orchard for the vultures. Took the girls and guns and our friend in the wagon back down the farm lane. Picture two 11 yr olds and a 5 yr old waiting for a slow freight to pass waving back and forth to the engineer pickin apples, puttin pennies on the track and shooting cans. Heaven!
Started to apologize to 11 yr old friends momma for taking her shooting, should have asked first!, her only comment was to laugh and tell me she got her first deer when she was five. Should have figured, they just moved up from San Antonio. Her husbands off at one of the embassy in one of the stans, God Bless America and thank you for your service! Betcha thought I was totally off track, FWB- accuracy, beech fishscale makes me smile on tx, classic lines, always comes down to a good trigger! The sights…gonna grab a bronco b4 they are gone, for the girls honest! But iron sights like that run triple the gun! So the price hurts but fits. Trip to Findlay fell thru, it was an excuse to meet B.B., now if he could give me the inside track on an FWB 124…. -Matt
Schools,
So, we met at Findlay? I plan on being there next year, too. I didn’t reserve a table in time, but Dennis Quackenbush said I could share his. Great show!
B.B.
B.B.
Family is originally from NE Indiana and was originally using a family visit to justify going to Findlay, family part fell thru, almost went for the gun show anyway. On a side note suffers from lyme and “mystery” pancreatitis. Did I see that when you were ill in 2010 that that the lyme parasites took up shop in your pancreas? Apparently Georgetown has a good pancreatitus program, next attack we plan on taking her down to the ER there to try and get her in the program.
Dennis Q and B.B. Not gonna miss it! When I get done reliving childhood, ahem “training the babies to shoot” big bores next fun pursuit.
FWB the John Deere of airguns? Happy to sell you an owners manual/shop $100 each. Try and find specs or wiring manuals on web, good luck! I won’t buy big green again. On the other hand check out how much any other quality german or english guns have gone up lately. I think they hit it with quality trigger, stock and accurate. Walther is putting fiber optics on. If your assuming we will scope it send it naked like TX. Scope mounts non-standard, meh, but get the right scope rings and betcha she sticks. Btw thanks for droop moa mounts on D54 B.B. Makes it less of a scope eater!
B.B. had pancreatitis. No Lyme disease, though.
Edith
Thought I remembered biopsy then treatment with antibiotics. Guess it was wishful thinking. She has had half dozen hospital stays in the last five years for pancreatitis. Last one was a week. Been a year since last episode. Had some success taking enzymes before every meal. Hard road though. -Matt
Matt,
No biopsies. Tom had gallstones stuck in his pancreas. They caused pancreatic pseudocysts (pancreatic cysts are cancerous, but pseudocysts are nothing more than big boils harboring tons of bacteria — hence the need for many months of IV antibiotics). The doctor was a buffoon and performed a procedure on him that no one in the U.S. (or even a Third World country) has done in the past 60+ years because they knew it had a horrendous end result. I did the research after ~50 other doctors at 2 other hospitals asked Tom & me why the doctor performed the procedure. We were very lucky to find one of the very few MDs in the U.S. who could fix the mistake.
Edith
Ahh, it’s coming back to me. I seem to remember that period of time. Thanks.
kevin
Kevin,
I hate talking/thinking about that time. I answered Matt only so I could set the record straight.
Edith
Edith,
+1
kevin
Edith,
Now it makes sense. We have been through ct scans, endoscopic ultra sounds, MRI’s. Gall bladder gone for thirty years. Have found scarring from pancreatitis episodes. At one point they were looking for structural defects. Did biopsy with endoscopic procedure. Possible genetic component but no alcohol. Docs are always very interested but at first but lose interest when they cannot figure out trigger for pathology. At one point thought it might be structural defect in ductwork. Didn’t pan out. Possibly lyme related? Hoping to dig up the right specialist. -Matt
I continue to be amazed at the improvements to airgunning since my days as a youth with that Crosman 760. The first things I noticed were better pellets, and much better glass at much better prices. But also, much better guns at a reasonable cost. What impresses me most in today’s blog is not so much the legendary Feinwerkbau accuracy, but the fact that you can buy a rifle under $70 that will come within .15 inches of matching its best group (Umarex NXG APX multi-pump). I’m not in the market for another gun yet, but that choice is getting harder every day–and that’s a great!
So, the Crosman 760 intoduced you to our marvelous sport ( and Hobby ) as it has to many others ?
That piece of junk ? It is now all plastic as is the interesting Webley Rebel, Cr.M4 whatever but smooth bore
I collect the Cr.760, starting with two Variant Ones. It is a classic as is Daisy Red Ryder.
Pete
Orcutt, California
It had a metal receiver and rifled barrel at that time. I definitely got my $35 worth out of it–and I would say I am continuing to do so today. Even though the gun is long gone, its legacy lives on in my continuing interest in airguns.
I still have my wood stock and pump handle with rifled barrel 760 from the early 70’s.
It still shoots nice.
Pete
I agree the new 760s are all plastic and smooth bore which make them junk as you stated, but with a little work and retrofitting of an old rifled barrel they can be made into very accurate fun little guns. I bought one for my grandson to learn with and for a mere 15 dollars was able to replace the smooth barrel with a rifled one that made all the difference in it accuracy. The old original 760s were a very fine and inexpensive pellet gun that could take tons of abuse and still keep shooting straight..
Buldawg
Buldawg ! No, I did not say they were “Junk”..others have implied that and would not do a Blog on the Crosman 760..
No, the 760 is a bargain ! I am going to buy the new Crosman 760-B, the 2014 model with 30% less pumping effort. This will join the two 760 Variant Ones I have…These little air rifles have sold in the millions. Every Big Box store and sporting goods chain carries them for their customers. Light weight is important for the young and the very old, like me. I would love to see the instructions on how to change a barrel to a rifled barrel. Grab an old beater and try it. Anyone have detailed instuctions or a site that i can down load. ? Are we having fun, or what !
Pete
Orcutt, California
Wikipedia William Warren Orcutt. Yes, i even llve on Union Avenue
Pete
The rifled barrel swap is very easy if you get the right barrel. On my grandsons 760 which is not the very newest one out that has the pump arm plastic molded back into the receiver to look like one flowing piece, it is the one right before it that still has the squared off receiver and pump arm that has a distinct breaking line between it and the receiver ( about a year or so old ). If the barrel is held in the receiver by two screw on either side just ahead of the loading trough and bolt opening then it is an easy swap. The barrel I used to do the swap on my grandsons from smoothbore to rifled I got off ebay for 15 bucks and I just asked the seller if it was rifled or smooth bore.
I did some searching on the crosman website just now for a rifled barrel for the 760s and found the 760s built from 1980 to 83 in Phase 2 had a rifled barrel and also the 760XL from 78 to 80. the crosman part number is 761-024, but here is the catch and you will have to ask crosman when you call the 761-024 barrel was also used on the phase 1 760s from 77 to 80 and shows to be smoothbore in the phase one. so in the phase 2 760 from 80 to 83 it was rifled and in the 760xl from 78 To 80 it was also rifled, but they show the same part number for different years as not being rifled so you will need to clarify with the crosman parts people if it is rifled or not. The part number 761-024 shows to come either way depending on the year the gun was made and I am not sure if it even still available from crosman.
To retro fit it to the newer gun is easy as it is the same except on the new gun the block for the transfer port and pellet bolt is a black plastic and is held into the receiver by two screws on either side just ahead of the pellet loading trough and the rifled barrel has the same shaped block only it is metal and the two bosses that are used on the plastic block are not drilled on the metal one so all that needs to be done is to drill the correct size holes in those two bosses for the coarse thread plastic style ( sheet metal type ) screw to thread into to hold the barrel in the receiver and put screws or grub screws in the hole where the rear and front sights would go if using a scope or look at the crosman site and see if you can get the sights and screws when you order barrel if they are still available.
The barrel I got from ebay had the sights already on it so it was not an issue with mine.
I am not sure if the parts are still available from crosman or not, but they need to be for a model 760 phase 2 from 80 to 83 or a 760XL from 78 to 80.
If you have any more questions just ask me here and I will try to answer them as best I can.
Buldawg
Buldawg….My retired Georgia State Trooper email pal is a Bull Dog Fan, as I am. Even though I went to U.S.C. ( C = California ).Thank you for the ‘How to’ on the 760 barrel switch. Perfect project for me. Clueless how to do anything on air guns. There again, someone should produce DIY on many types and in those those types, models Vintage AirGun forum would have ideas.
Thank you, Again, Buldawg… ( is that the Georgia BullDogs ? )
Pete
Orcutt, California
Pete
No I am not into football or any other sport that involves a ball of any sorts except for the Crimson tide as in UAB college football team as I do watch them every game. I just don’t think we have the team of past years this year as there to many new players that are not as experienced as the years before and I know it goes in cycles with every college team. I just got used to the Tide rolling thru to the SEC championships every year, but it is not to be this year as we have already lost twice.
The Buldawg76 comes from my first pet that was a Purebred American Staffordshire Terrier more commonly known as a Pit bull although that term is so misleading and grossly misused to refer to almost any breed of dog that resembles a true Staffordshire terrier.
My terrier was born on July 4th 1976 hence the 76 after buldawg and was the best dog I have ever owned, he was a 55 pound lap dog that would not hesitate to defend his home and family against any threat but was not in any way mean or unfriendly to people. The breed was bred in England back in the late 1800s to be fought in a pit until the death and that is where the slang name of Pit Bull comes from but it does not mean that the dogs are mean and out to kill anything that moves it just means that the dogs are capable of being trained to be killers because of their breeding heritage. It is people that make them killers not the animal itself.
I am glad to help in any way with you converting your 760 to a rofled barrel so don’t hesitate to ask when the time comes.
Buldawg
Buldawg,
I’ve heard more stories about pitbulls that were adoring, lovable lap dogs than vicious killers. Our good friend Mac has a son who had a pitbull. That dog was all love and a couch potato.
I used to work with a guy who had a pitbull and a golden lab. The pitbull would love you to death but the lab would snap off a digit if given the chance. Animals, like people, are individuals. Their DNA, heritage and upbringing determine their behavior.
Edith
Edith
That is how mine was, he would rather sit in your lap and lick you to death than hurt anyone. Mine was a couch potato also.
I remember when I was living back with my parents in my early twenties just out of trade school and had my Staffy at home with me, I came home form work one day and my mom was frantic because she thought she had let my ” chopper ” out and he had got out of the fenced in yard. I assured her that if he had got out of the fence that he would be home shortly. He was a red nose red brindle coloring and we had a couch that was just about the same coloring as him so as I walked through the house looking for him and calling his name when I got to the couch that he was not allowed to be on I heard a tail slapping against the cushion of the couch that he was so comfortably laying on and my mom had walked by it several times herself searching the house for him. He blended in so good and knew he was not supposed to be up on it that he let her walk by without moving an inch so as not to be caught in the act, but when I walked by he just could not resist wagging his tail and giving his position away. My mom was so mad and happy at the same time and we had a good laugh about how he was so well camouflaged that she never saw him on the couch.
Buldawg
HiveSeeker
Remember B.B. has yet to shot the APX at 25yds so it may be a bit early to claim it is close to the FWB in accuracy. If you look at test B.B. did with the Daisy 880S it shot as well as the APX at 10m and was a real let down when he moved out to 25yds. I jumped on the 880S after reading the 10m report and my 880S shot well at 10m also and kinda poorly at 25yds just like the test rifle.
David
David,
The fifteen-fold price difference makes the Umarex look good at 10 yards. That’s all I’m saying. 😉
HiveSeeker
HiveSeeker
I hope the APX does shoot well at 25yds, I already have a $50 gun that shoots well @ 10m. I’m just not going to get my hopes up after being disappointed by the 880S.
The FWB is a beautiful gun but I am happy with my 460 Magnum, it’s accurate, has a great trigger, open sights, beautiful and about half the price of the FWB.
David
BB,
I know you do not really like to do this, but…
I plan to have one more sproinger in my collection. It will be used primarily for plinking, which by the way I am VERY serious about, and possibly small game hunting. You have or at least have reviewed all of the contestants. Price is of no consideration. Which one of these would top your list?
Diana 34
HW80 / R1
FWB Sport
Walther LGV
TX200 MKIII
It is a shame that now American sproinger makes the grade.
RR,
For ultimate pleasure it’s down to the TX and the Walther. My LGV in .22 is a tackdriver and so is my TX. I guess the TX has the best trigger and is the quietest, so that’s my pick.
Every gun on your list is worth owning at some time. That’s how I do it. Buy one and sell another. Sooner or later you end up with a few you just can’t sell, and you know the reasons why. Those are the keepers.
B.B.
BB,
That is pretty much what I have been thinking.
Now if I could get the LGV with a walnut stock, I might have to reconsider. I can get the 34 in walnut, but I am not sure about the HW. I have not contacted them about such yet.
No problem. The Air Arms TX200 is the hands down choice followed by HW 80. That said, everyone should have a RWS 34, wood stock, in their closet. Looking at a TX200 myself right now ! Yep. It is an investment
Pete
Orcutt, California
The only issue with that is all of the air rifles I have listed above are of similar performance. I have no intention of having a closet full of airguns that I do not shoot. I “need” only one sproinger in this performance range, so I want the best. Yes, I would like to have an HW80 and yes, I would like to have a Diana 34, but though they are very nice, I do not feel they are quite at the top.
I had hopes for the FWB and if it had a walnut stock I could have more easily swallowed that price tag. That is the only reason I will not ever likely own one of these. I can buy better for less.
If you want or decide only only one springer or “Srionger”, then the Air Arms TX200 is the only choice.
Period ! The list I posted was in “Order of Choice”..I shoulda’ made that more clear, perhaps.
Pete
Orcutt, California
The TX 200 is to pretty of a airgun you’ll spend to much time cleaning the finger prints off and lookin at it ..
Chris in Ct…I did not say i would take mt Air Arms TX II outside and shoot it ! And maybe bang it on the door edge and put a “push in..” or dent in the walnut stock. OMG ! If I want to go out to shoot an air rifle, that is when I would pull the GAMO Big Cat .177 with GAMO 4×32 Scope with Charlie’s Gold Trigger outa’ the closet. That is the garden pest air rifle. (<: .
Pete
Orcutt, California
Pete.
Thats a sweet Gamo. My go gun is Gamo 440hunter that my son let fall down 4 flight of cement steps and said “oops sorry Pops”.
I thought I was the only serious plinker. Glad to hear of a kindred spirit. 🙂
Matt61
RidgeRunner,
I’m still in the hunt for a great, spring-piston, ~12fpe rifle. Your choices are the same rifles I’m considering. Hope your rifle works out for you, and that you tell us all about it.
RB
You cant dismiss the HW/80 simply because all the possible accessories- abuot a dozen different sprinģs that can be installed about half dozen seals ,stock options out there, barrel swaps 177/20/22/25 and 30cal but elusive. Iron sights/true glow sight/many different muzzle breaks/ldc’s etc.etc…
I too think this new FWB is the real deal , but overpriced . $650 is more like a reasonable price. I some how acepted the Theoben prices maybe if I owned this FWB it would grow on me.
B.B.,
Why 10-shot group and not 5-shot? All FWB match airguns come with a 5-shot test target at 10-meters.
Joe,
Good question! I shoot 10-shot groups because they show the accuracy potential of a gun much better than 5 shots. Ten shots are almost as good at 30 shots, and 30 shots are just as good as 1,000 shots, statistically.
Seventy years ago the 10-shot group was the standard, because shooters understood this. But after WWII companies started trying to make their guns look better and 5 shots will always do that. Today some gun writers are starting to show 3-shot groups that are only an approximation of the real accuracy, but nearly always better than 5 shots.
I used to shoot 5-shot groups and sometimes I still do, but I always explain my reasoning — like when I’m shooting a big bore airgun that uses a lot of air.
B.B.
B.B.,
I recently fired a three shot, 3/4″ group at 100 yards with my CMP Garand using my handloads. Woohoo! But I know it doesn’t mean anything; my eight shot groups average 2 1/2″.
RB
And it could change from day to day.
RB,
And THAT, Joe, is why I shoot 10-shot groups! These things happen all the time. While they are encouraging, they don’t represent what the gun can do.
B.B.
I am pretty new to all this air gun stuff….are those amazing groups? Seems that I get groups like that shot from a rest with guns costing well under $900.
I do know for a fact my 54 Air King and HW50s will shoot that good. Well My 54 is actually better than those groups at only 25 yards.
I’m waiting for the 50 yard test. It will tell if it will be a good Field target gun that’s for sure. The FWB sport is definitely competitive with some of the moderate priced field target pcp guns though. I hate to think that the FWB sport will only be a 900 dollar plinker.
The FWB Sport is not a field target airgun. Its slim stock shape makes it a rifle to carry around and shoulder fast. Its beautiful iron sights are useless in a FT competition, and its comb is not raised as you would find in a scope-only rifle.
This gun is for hunting, plinking, carrying around on trips. It is mighty fine at that, but also has a mighty fine price tag. I am happy such a gun is made. We have enough airguns for field target matches, but the FWB fills a niche that was empty before.
I believe your right about filling a niche that was empty. How many 900 dollar guns fit in that niche?
Not too many, I guess. On the other hand, I know that several German airgun producers do much of their business in Arab and Eastern European countries. The wealthy people there are different customers than the average American airgunner.Americans buy airguns from the Internet or big box stores, and are very concerned about price and “hard values” such as velocity, trigger quality etc. The USA is a place where budget guns, and “rational” much-bang-fort-the-buck rifles sell – and between you and me, some rifles for the US market have stock that look like they were cut out wiht a chainsaw from a piece of scrap wood. A country with wealthy Arabs is different, they want to see & feel the gun, and buy it if they like it. These people are much less concerned with the technical specifications, but want a gun that has a good look and feels right when shouldered.
Hmm. That’s different. I would of never thought that.
So they want looks over performance?
Mel,
From your description (and I assume you speak from personal/first-hand knowledge of Middle Eastern buyers), it sounds like the U.S. shooters are interested in performance and others are interested in perceived value, appearance & wall-hangers. Personally, I’d rather have an accurate gun with a bad-looking stock than a beautiful gun that can’t hit anything. My favorite quote: “Only accurate guns are interesting.” — Col. Townsend Whelen
If a gun is accurate, then the window-dressing is gravy. But I wouldn’t want a gun with only window-dressing.
Edith
You’re absolutely right! Well, the Middle Eastern buyers want accurate airguns as well. But in these countries, you find a number of people who are absulutely willing to spend substantial money on an airgun they like, for non-technical reasons. Many of these customers don’t attend matches, so they want a gun for informal shooting and small game hunting. If you have a look at the FBW sport, you can clearly see it fits the bill.
I don’t want to stereotype airgun buyers by countries. But for example, the US airgunners have a tendency be quite crazy about fps numbers (be they real or just advertised), and sometimes have the strange tendency to amass large amounts of budget airguns that fall in the same category. Germans usually tend to buy fewer airguns, but are willing to spend more money on each of them. These are just tendencies, I hope nobody takes any offense.
I lean more towards the German view than most Americans. Since it is impossible for one airgun to fill all the niches, I have more than one.
My 1906 BSA fills the low power sproinger slot. At the moment I am looking for a sproinger in this performance level.
My Edge fills the low power PCP slot. My Talon SS fills the mid power PCP slot. I am considering a big bore PCP some time in the future.
My Izzy fills my pistol slot. If I can find the same model Webley I had when I was a kid, I might add it to my collection if the wallet can stand it.
But the smart American air gunner knows that the high velocity wars is a bunch of hype. They are the uneducated air gunner that hasn’t exsperianced what a truly accurate air gun is about.
I like a good looking gun but if its not going to be a accurate one even at a lower fps I’m probably not going to have that gun for long.
Velocity is not everything.
Mel
Buying a $600 airgun is a huge leap of faith if one didn’t read about it here. I caught the bug in 2005 when I bought 2 air guns while on vacation in Florida Gamo shadow 1000($124) Daisy Powerline 1000($99) because Gamo had a Internet advertisement in the box I discovered Pyramyd AIR and others. 2005 was the high point of Internet retailers. I’ve browsed for years at European/English airguns on the net without buying because spending more than $300 was insane, when a 22Lr Marlin model 60 cost $120. it took 4 years to finally hold a Beeman R1 $599 it was love at first site. Anyone who held a R1 most likely bought it.
That would be like a salad without the ham &eggs & cheese and dressing.
Edith
Very well said and you have mirrored my feeling and opinions of all guns in general. If you cannot hit what you are aiming at then what good does the fancy look do for the gun.
Buldawg
Those groups are pretty good, considering they are 10 shots at 25 yards. And yes, there are cheaper airguns which are capable of such groups, too.
When it comes to accuracy, you have to differ between the rifle’s inherent accuracy (it would develop with a perfect shooter) and the accuracy you can achieve with it. The first type of accuracy is all about barrel harmonicy, good ammunition etc, while the second type is more about the gun’s trigger, its firing behaviour, stock shape – and as such, is in some respects a subjective matter, and a reflection of yor ability to master the airgun.
Master the air gun. That’s for sure. There are some out there that like to think they are the boss.
Greg,
Really? Ten-shot groups?
B.B.
BB
You need to read Greg’s response again.
“Seems that I get groups like that shot from a rest with guns costing well under $900.”
Why wouldn’t there be a gun out there that can shoot a 10 shot group the same or better than the sport?
I think I have only posted once groups I got from guns. And I don’t want to sound like I’m bragging but I’m going to straight up say that my .177 synthetic stock Marauder with JSB 10.34 grain pellets will put one on top of the other at 25 yards with 10 shot groups bench resting. Say what you want but I know what my gun will shoot.
Sorry but I’m just saying what it will do. And again Greg didn’t give no specifics about a gun he got groups with.
I have been tuning springers for quite a while, done 50 or so over the years and wanted to comment about the buzzing.
I have found that lower quality guns with slack tolerances don’t buzz much when packed with grease. During the first can of pellets the grease is displaced and the gun settles into its performance niche. These guns benefit from a strip/de-grease/de-burr/polish and molly tune job right out of the box. My 40+ year old Slavia 618 is one of these types of guns and with a bit of TLC still chronys at 375fps with an ES of around 10 with good pellets.
A quality rifle built to closer tolerances and properly lubricated can buzz a bit when it is new because it is missing that dampening load of grease. I found that it takes a couple of cans of pellets for the parts to lap themselves together and the gun to settle down. I do a tuning AFTER that happens and I am usually not in a hurry to do so – applying molly before the gun has been well worked-in is detrimental to attaining its ultimate performance because it inhibits the breaking-in process.
I bought my FWB 124 new and paid about four times the price of a typical pellet gun at the time. It buzzed when I first bought it. I have shot at least 2-3 can of pellets through it a year for 30+ years – that is a LOT of lead!! Just put a new Hawke 4-16×44 on the rifle and was shooting .250” – .350” 5-shot groups at 25 yards (bench-rest with JSB 8.44g pellets) with no problem on Saturday. Yeah, my friends thought I was crazy to spend so much on a pellet gun, but I still smile ever I shoot it and that has added up to a lot of smiles over the years – figure that it has paid for itself in smiles alone. Not hard for me to justify the price if I cost it off over the long run.
Just getting into PCPs. Looking at the Weihrauch HW100 in .22 cal. with a Hawke EV 4-12×50. My friend keeps on saying I am crazy if I spend that much on a pellet gun… I just keep smiling.
Vana2
Vana2
Hows it going. I know that you know there are cheaper pcp guns out there also. But I will have to bet that you will be smiling. Same as with your 124.
But one question. Do your friends shoot air guns also or do they shoot firearms?
Hey Gunfun1!
Doing OK, what about you?
You would win that bet – the smile-factor is very strong on the HW100, think it will be ideal for long-range shooting. Been watching too many of those videos of people shooting shotgun shells and paint-balls at 100 yards – looks like too much fun! One guy must have been told to go out and weed the lawn… he was shooting dandelions flowers at 25 yards – sounds like something I would do! You are right, like the 124, I am looking at the long run, don’t want to be upgrading in a year or two.
I live in Ontario, Canada. My friends hunt big game with center-fire rifles and birds with shotguns. In my neck of the woods, the typical view is that .22s are for plinking and pest control; pellet guns are for kids. Say “Weihrauch” to somebody and they would probably reply gesundheit. LOL! Adult interest in airguns is rapidly increasing due to the Internet and blogs like B.B.s. but it is far from main-stream.
Vana2
Vana2
Doing good.
The way you were talking I thought maybe they were firearm shooters. All I can say is there are people missing out if they never give airguns a try.
Oh and that’s my excuse to shoot my airguns in the summer. I tell my wife I’m going out to do yard work. She comes out and I’m shooting dandelions. What can I say. 🙂
Walnut stocks buzz more than beach stocks on spring guns. Beach wood absorbs vibration / buzz/harmanics way better..
I don’t need but would like to have a new 2 door sporty car. I’m a porsche guy.
Just checked the price of the new porsche 918 and the MSRP is $845,000! Ridiculous. I just saw a nice 911 turbo for $78,000 the other day. I think the new porsche 918 should be priced around $100.000.00.
kevin
Kevin, Kevin, Kevin. You’re nothing but trouble. In our house, we say, “You’re trouble on a stick.” I don’t know why. It’s just something that evolved over 32+ years of marriage, hilarity and fun 🙂
Edith
Edith,
Trouble on a stick. Hmmm….I could get used to that.
Kevin
Are you going to by one of them Porsche?
Its just the Italian in me but I would just have to get the Ferrari. 🙂
Oh and I didn’t say anything about cost. Its just a name right.
My preference is Lotus? but I’d have to wait for a while to get one with 79 cents, can’t even get a Hot Wheel for that any more.
Reb
Dream big. You never know what could happen. 🙂
I got my RedRyder a dime at a time
I got one of my 760’s when I was a kid with money from my grass cutting jobs.
I always wanted one of the high dollar German guns I seen in the catalogs but just never could get enough saved. But I sure did have fun with my 760.
I guess my money was going into bicycle parts and never really turned back until I bought that Slavia 618 in ’99 for $10. barrels along the way that were fun but a few years ago when I traded for my 392 and enough parts to build a 760 I was hooked. I’m still in the market for another smooth break barrel. and now there are PCP’s to catch up to.
Reb
But at least you have a plan.
I contacted SSA again today and they have made a determination(due on the 17th) but I’ll have to wait for it in the mail. Even if it’s unfavorable I’ll qualify for county assistance but SSA has to make a determination one way or the other first. I had to to call them after the call from my landlord this morning. It’s sad to see what my life has become in such a short amount of time. I hope I can get a decent Rehab therapist!
Onward and upward
Your outlook makes all the difference in the world.
Gunfun1,
No Ferrari. Two reasons….
1-the new LaFerrari is $1.2 million
2-it’s not German
Kevin
Kevin
I actually like both makes of cars. I rode in a Ferrari when I was younger and drove a couple Porsche. None of them was a joy ride. We was actually getting down to biusness if you know what I mean. I would say they both have their plus’s and minuses.
But I will have to say this if I have the money to be deciding if I want a Ferrari or a Porsche I’m thinking I wouldn’t need to decide. I would by both. 😉
Kevin,
😉
B.B.
If you’re lucky and very patient you may find a 914 that could use some work.
Reb
Make that a 914-6 and you would have a sweet little ride that corners like it is on rails and has the power of a 911.
Buldawg
I knew they offered a flat 6 but did Porsche boost ’em too? Kinda feel like mounting a kayak on a skateboard 🙂 ? I had a guy show up in a FieroGini one day with pulsating brakes- Couldn’t have anything to do with that huffer on that 383 could it?
That was Fun!
Reb
it was basically the same motor that was in the 911 of that time. I had a roommate at trade school in 75 that had one and it would flat out fly and we would come off of interstate clover leafs at 100 plus MPH without even the slightest hint of tire squeal or sledding and it would pin to the outside door panel with the g force it was making.
I would have liked to see that FieroGini for sure and if he still had the stock brakes I am surprised they could slow it down very well hence the warped rotors.
I worked on a jaguar XJ6 with a 350 in it and it was a hoot to drive also but got very poor tire mileage.
Buldawg
We were talking about upgrades when I spotted cracks all through the subframe and he decided it was time to sell.
That one and the Dodge Stealth Twin Turbo that snuck up on me both left lasting impressions! at least the Stealth was built for it but a quick search for the wheel lock key revealed a speeding ticket for 68 in a 20- the driver looked a lot like the notorious shoe bomber who was out of town a lot & money was no object! $800 for 4 new vented,cross-drilled and slotted rotors was met with one question- when can you have it ready?
Reb
I had a friend growing up like that as he was born with a gold spoon in his mouth. He would buy cars brand new and then spend 1000s on them to hop them up even more. He bought a new 74 dodge van and had the dealer pull the 318 out and put a 340 four barrel motor in it before he even picked it up and boy did that van run, we would out run a lot of hotrods and have plenty of room to party at the same time.
Buldawg
Yeah,
In Austin there were a lotta $100,000 factory but modified race cars on the road!who bought me one of these to pull the $2000 exhaust system off and build a 2.5″ glass-pack system for, then he requested me to deliver it so he could go home & get liquored up:
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C528770
Reb
Yea I had some customers like that when I worked at the independent shop when first starting out. We had a customer with a 66 vette that had a 427 built by Holman Moody in it that put out 750 plus HP and I got to tune it up a couple of times and then test drive it. That was one car that would get away from you before you even had a chance to react and correct it , it was one of the few cars that could scare me when driving it.
Buldawg
Supposed to say: Then there was the guy who brought me a BMW 850
REb and buldawg
I have seen pictures of those but never seen one in person.
But there was a guy that would show up at the dragstrip every once in a while that had a red Fiero GT with a Grand National engine, intercooler and turbo in it. It was a automatic and not sure what trans/transaxle he used though. He had factory rims and dots all the way around it. It was running in the mid elevens at 118 mph. He drove the car there and drove it out of there. I never seen it run on the street. But I always wondered what it cornered like with those sticky dot drag radials on all 4 corners. I bet it was a heck of a ride.
Gunfun
The six cylinder that the Fieros came with would bolt right up to the GN motor, but unless he went in and upgraded the clutch packs it would not have held up long to the GNs output as it was way more than the wimpy 2.8 liter six they came with.
I bet it was a hand full on a wet road.
buldawg
buldawg
Yep not sure what he had done to his tranny but had to be putting a lot of stress on things that’s for sure. All that weight of the engine over the tires and stickys on the back.
He would idle the car at the line and when the light changed he would stomp it. The nose would raise up on the suspension then about a car length out it would pull the front tires all the way through first when the boost came in. He was running like 108 mph in the 1/8th mile.
And he had those BF Goodrich drag radials all the way around it. So I guess it would of tried to push the front end in the rain. But I had them tires on a few of my drag cars and they were actually pretty good in the rain. They had a V groove design on the tread pattern.
I had them on that 97 1LE car I had. The one I scca raced. I also dragraced it at the dragstrip too. Had a bunch of stuff done to it. It was bottled and it ran in the mid to low elevens. But I left them tires on it in the summer months and drove it 60 miles round trip back and forth to work. I couldn’t get on it if it rained but they were way,way better then slicks. Well that’s when I was a bit younger too. Maybe I wouldn’t like driving with them now.
Gunfun
Yea we called those type of tires cheater slicks because you could get away with running them on the road due to them having what could be tread on them.
Yea it sounds right with the turbo because if he power braked it to get the boost up it probably would have just boiled the tires off the line instead of getting it rolling before the turbo hit. That was the way my buddies GN was if you power braked it the tires would just go up in smoke, but if you just stomped it from a dead stop it would not light them up till about 20 to 30 feet out.
He had to have built the tranny because it would not hold up to it otherwise as they only had the 3 speed 125 transaxles in them stock and that turbo would fry the clutches in a stock 125 right off the bat.
Yep the cheater slicks were a little better on wet road but would still get squirrelly if you were heavy footed. Our fear factor is much higher when we are young and ten feet tall and invincible.
Buldawg
buldawg
I had 2 Grand Nationals. All I can say is boost is fun. And yes that’s we called them to was cheater slicks.
How about a locked in El Dorado or Northstar tranny?
Reb
The norhtstar caddys had a switch inside the glove box that allowed you to turn the traction control off if you wanted to and with it off you could power brake it and it would change to the left lane while smoking the tire from torque steer. You just had to make sure there was not a car to the left side of you as you would hit it if there was one beside you. They actually had to detune the northstar in the caddys because the 440 transaxle could not handle more than 300 ft/lbs torque and the northstar could make 600 hp and 450 ft/lbs torque at it best tune so it was detuned to 300 hp and 300 ft/lbs torque so the tranny would live.
I am getting ready to check out the emails you sent me on the BNA and Mac1 stuff and will email you my thoughts.
Buldawg
Kevin
You can buy several American cars that will make that Porsche look bad at a tenth of the cost. Lets say a ZO6 vette or a SL1 Camaro or a new dodge hellcat. If you are not concerned with it being street legal then I would recommend a COPO Camaro that would make that Porsche drewl
Buldawg
buldawg and Reb
I had a 90 and a 97 1LE Camaro. They both ran their butts off. They were called a police/ scca road race package.
The engines were one thing but they had aluminum flywheels and drive shafts,anti slosh baffles in the gas tank,Muncie Getrag 5 spds that 5th gear was 1to1. Different shocks and swaybars. And a factory 3” single exhaust. Radio and air condition delete with optional dealer install if you wanted it. Oh and I’m probably forgetting other things to but there was no sound deading material in the cars and they had a aluminum wheel for the spare tire that looked like the stamp steel ones with the holes all the way around the rim.
I SCCA Solo1 road raced both of them and drove them everyday to work. They were single car timed course events. Both of my Camero’s were giving the Corvettes and other cars a run for their money. I do miss the road race stuff. That’s how I got my rides and drives in the Ferrari and the Porsche.
And there was a guy that showed up with one of those Jags also at the dragstrip. I forgot about that there was people doing those conversions.
Gunfun
Yea I am familiar with the 1LE Camaros and the similar optioned Firebirds.
that jag that the guy put the 350 in was one fun car to drive because it had god handling with plenty of horsepower to boot and was way more than the stock six.
buldawg
buldawg
Yep the Firebird Firehawks. Weren’t they all made in yellow? Or was that just a certain year they made them in yellow. Anyway can’t remember now.
And you forgot one thing on the Jags. They were luxury too. You could slow down and relax and cruise.
Gunfun
Yea I don’t know if they were all yellow or not as I think I remember some being red also, but I am not sure.
Yea the Jags were sleepers for sure and definitely luxury cruisers as well.
buldawg
Kevin
You do have a knack for throwing a splash of cold water on a subject now and then. I value your input.
Ciao
Titus
BB
Here I go again with comparing airguns. Can you tell me which is the more hold sensitive? The Sport or the new Walther LGV?
Ton,
I would have to say the FWB is more sensitive.
B.B.
OK can someone ask FWB to build a more plain (less deluxe version) sporter maybe a copy of the 124/127 for $400 that way they wouldn’t of had to spend extra for tooling and engineers
Hey Chris,
Been there, done that.
Over the years I have has numerous offers for my FWB124 and have contacted Feinwerkbau several times advising them there was a market opportunity for the rifles and suggesting/requesting that the re-release the 124/127 models. The replies were polite but they were not interested. Ditto for my requests for the FWB300S.
I was hoping that they would release a gas-piston version of the 124/127 and sent an email. No to that suggestion as well.
Vana2
From my side of the world all I can do is dream of ever owning one.
Wow…one little comment.
The gun I was thinking of when I made that post was an 850 magnum, yes I know about as apples and oranges as you can get. However I was talking only about the groups….and groups at 25 yards. At this stage of my game I am pretty weak and shooting from a rest or better yet a lead sled is about the only way I can play at the moment, but with that 850 true 1 ragged hole groups in 8 rounds (I always screw up something when I try to change out) is something that is a non event. It is one of the few co2 guns that I think are pest bird worthy/ethical.
I would also say that the fusion is a very accurate little gun as well (I am limited as it is pretty darn hard for me to cock things anymore….without getting too personal 🙂
I would imagine I have gotten groups like BB posted with that rifle as well at 25.
I freely admit I really can’t shoot my springers any longer and expect to keep them all in an Ike dollar at 25, but where I was trying to go was how accurate and the cost. Both guns I just talked about cost MUCH less one would be an OK pest bird gun, the other plinking and whatnot all day.
Hope I did not tick too many off.
Greg
First how’s it going.
And I don’t think you ticked anybody off. Its just that one comment leads to another. And I see what your talking about. And you have right to a opinion that’s for sure.
I myself like the new FWB sport. It is a higher priced airgun that’s for sure and the name is associated with a quality gun. And I have had some higher priced airguns for one the semi-auto FX Monsoon. And it seems to be a following if you will of people that will by certain types of high cost guns.
I would have to say if money was no object I would have all kinds of airguns just for the fact that I like to see how different companies products perform. Heck I would possibly get a couple of new FWB sports.
But to me right now the sport doesn’t have that special feature that is attracting me. I’m very satisfied with my Weihrauch HW50s and my Dian 54 Air King that coated a lot less.
And here is the kicker. Even if the sport was priced closer to the Diana 54 I don’t think it has that thing that says pick me. I know why I chose the 54 the anti recoil. I can’t buy the sport just because it shoots like other good springers and its name. And its my opinion. Your opinion may be different as well as other people’s opinions. But what can I say. That’s the way it is.
And believe me performance and quality is what I look for and if it comes at a cheaper cost then so be it.
And Greg by the way. Welcome to the blog. 🙂
We need to have our US goverment switch to euro instead of dollar.
Chris in Ct
Your wish may happen sooner than you may think but it will not be the way you want it to take place and you already live in a state that says you have to turn in your firearms for registration and then confiscation so I do not understand why you would want us to switch to the euro. When that happens it will be the UN that makes the laws and believe me that you or no one else in this country will be happy except the gun grabbing commie idiots that believe if you take the guns out of citizens hands then there will be no more crime. I have yet to see a criminal that uses a gun in a crime obtain that gun legally.
I also for one do not want any other world gov’t telling me what I can and cannot do as we already have a bunch of idiots in Washington doing that now so we do not need more of the same.
Changing our currency to another form is not going to fix anything except make our downward spiral go faster as we are about to fall into the depths that we cannot get back out of like the penny in the spiral cone that ends in oblivion.
Buldawg
Looking at your targets, B.B., it really looks to me like the rifle shoots a minor flier every now and then, but a flier nonetheless. Yes–the groups are about as good as they get for a sporting springer, if you discard that one flier in the groups (sometimes even two very small ones, perhaps). Even with the fliers, the groups are far from poor. However, those inexplicable fliers “count” and, for hunting, reduce the number of ethical shots one might take.
>Ten Falcons went into 0.419 inches at 25 yards
Even this group might have had two minor fliers! Look at what a great group it would be, if they were discarded.
-Cal
Cal,
Yeah, it is a real temptation to shoot 10 shots and then count the 7 or 8 best ones. But that just isn’t real world. So I let the chips fall where they may and make a few enemies at the airgun manufacturers.
B.B.