by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
This report covers:
• Lots of interest
• Mounted the scope
• The scope
• Initial accuracy
• Examine the baffles
• Back to Premiers
• Conventional artillery hold not right
• Found the secret
• Cocking effort
• Trigger
• Firing behavior
• Summary
Benjamin Trail Nitro Piston 2
Today is like one of those pregnant pauses in a movie. You know what you want the hero (that’s either me or the Benjamin Trail Nitro Piston 2) to say, but he just won’t say it. The poorer the actor, the longer you wait. Not today.
The Benjamin Trail Nitro Piston 2 works!
Oh, there’s a lot to tell, and I’m far from finished with my evaluation, but that’s how the story will end. I want to tell you about the rough and rocky road it took to get to that point — and we aren’t quite there yet.
Mounted the scope
I’m going to start shooting for accuracy, so first I mounted the 3-9X32 CenterPoint scope on the rifle. Mounting was easy, and the scope aligned very well. Then, it was time to sight in the rifle. I always start at 12 feet from the target, so I know I’m on paper. I would start at 10 feet, but I have a door jamb at 12 feet, so there you go. The object is to get the pellet to hit in line with the center of the target and as far below the aim point as the center of the bore is below the center of the scope.
It took 3 shots to adjust the scope to the point that I knew the rifle would be close at 10 meters. Next, I set up a bench at 10 meters and proceeded to shoot several more shots — refining the zero. At 10 meters, I want to hit one inch below the aim point so the pellet will be on target at 20 yards. I’m going to shoot from 25 yards today; but as fast as this rifle shoots, it will be on the aim point between 20 and 30 yards, approximately, if I sight-in this way.
A couple more shots, and I was sighted-in. I went back to 25 yards and started shooting seriously.
The scope
Before we move on, I’ll comment on the scope. While it does have clear optics, the parallax isn’t adjusted for 25 yards; so, on 9x the bull was out of focus. One reader asked me for my observation and there it is. I think a scope for a rifle like this should have its parallax adjusted for 20-25 yards if the scope is going to have fixed parallax.
Initial accuracy
I began shooting with .22-caliber Crosman Premiers, as those are the pellets I felt might do the best in this rifle. The first couple shots went to my exact aim point, then they started dropping several inches below. I ended up with a nice group of 6 shots about 2 inches below the aim point and 4 more shots that ranged up to the aim point. All in all, not a very good group. I switched pellets.
I tried JSB Exact Jumbos next; but when the first 3 shots went into 1.50 inches, I stopped shooting. Next were Beeman Kodiak pellets. By shot 3, the group was already larger than an inch and a half, so I stopped. Finally, I tried some RWS Superdomes, and this time I stuck it out for 6 shots. They landed in 2-1/4 inches, and that stopped the whole show. Something was wrong!
Three Beeman Kodiaks made this group that’s larger than 1.50 inches. The shot at the bottom center is from another pellet shot at a different target.
Six RWS Superdomes landed in 2-1/4 inches. Something was wrong!
Examine the baffles
Whenever I get wild or open groups like these from a gun that has baffles, I suspect the pellets are hitting the baffles or the end cap as they leave the gun. So, I shined a strong light down the muzzle and looked around all the baffles — looking for places where a pellet might have ripped off some of the plastic or left a gray streak. On aluminum baffles, a gray streak is what to look for, but these baffles are plastic, so I thought they might have been cut slightly.
But they looked perfect. They were completely round and there were no marks of any kind. I could see all the way down to the true muzzle of the gun, so I looked at the crown, to see if it was rough or out of round. And that’s when I saw it. Or, rather, I didn’t see it. I was unable to see the whole muzzle! Part of it was obscured by the last baffle! It was not in line with the bore!
The baffles are one cast piece of synthetic, and they’re separate from the shroud tube. I showed them to you in Part 1. They have rubber o-rings on each end of the baffle tube to center the baffles inside the shroud tube. But here’s the rub. The baffles, and not the shroud tube itself, thread onto the end of the barrel. The baffle tube has an end cap that holds tension against the shroud tube. Once the baffles are tight, everything is tight; but it’s still possible for the shroud tube to rotate. If that happens, it’s possible for the baffles to be misaligned with the muzzle of the barrel — or at least it is on my test rifle! All I had to do was rotate the shroud tube about 90 degrees, and then I could see the entire muzzle! It was time to shoot another group.
Back to Premiers
I went back to Crosman Premiers now that the muzzle was clear. The inside of the baffle tube looks like it has more than enough room for even a .25-caliber pellet to pass through without touching, so I figured it would be okay. This time, I shot a much better group of 10, with 8 pellets in 0.915 inches. The last 2 pellets opened the group to 1.748 inches, and they just looked wrong as I watched them fly to a different spot through the scope. Something was wrong, but I didn’t think it was the pellets.
This first 10-shot group of Crosman Premiers has 8 shots within 0.915 inches, and 2 that open the group to 1.748 inches. Something isn’t right.
Conventional artillery hold not right
I switched to H&N Field Target Trophy pellets. This time, they all landed in a nice 1.1357-inch group until the final 2 shots opened it to 1.704 inches. Clearly, something still wasn’t right, but I didn’t know what it was. However, I was starting to suspect that the conventional artillery hold isn’t right for the NP2.
Ten H&N Field Target Trophy pellets went into 1.704 inches, with 8 of them going into a much smaller 1.135 inches. That’s still not great, but it’s more uniform.
I tried both Kodiaks and Superdomes, again — this time with the rifle rested directly on the sandbag. The results were about what you would expect when resting any breakbarrel springer directly on a bag — 3 shots scattering wide in 2-1/2- to 3-inch groups. Obviously, that’s the wrong thing to do!
I found the secret
I shot another 10-shot group of Premiers and experimented with the hold as I shot. When I firmly held the pistol grip, the group tightened up. When I relaxed in a traditional artillery hold, the shots went wild. The group looks bad at 2.508 inches overall, but 7 of those shots are in 1.042 inches and 5 are in 0.802 inches.
This group taught me what I needed to know. Hold the gun tight, and it groups. Hold it loose, and it scatters pellets everywhere.
Next, I shot another 10-shot group of Premiers, With the pistol grip held tight, 10 shots went into 1.207 inches, with 9 going into 0.835 inches. Eight shots went into 0.514 inches. It’s not a smaller group overall, but there are more shots in the main group. I’m learning how to hold the rifle.
Now, we’re cooking! 10 shots in 1.207 inches, 9 in 0.835 inches and 8 in 0.514 inches! This shows promise!
That was followed by another 10-shot group of Premiers. This time, 10 went into 1.178 inches, and 8 were in 0.721 inches. I was definitely learning how the NP2 wants to be held.
Ten in 1.178 inches, and 8 in 0.721 inches. I am getting to know the NP2.
Cocking effort
I said in Part 1 that the effort to cock the rifle was heavier than I remembered from the SHOT Show, and in Part 2 I gave the effort as 38 lbs. as measured on my bathroom scale. I also said in Part 2 that the rifle seemed to get easier as I tested the velocity, but testing it on the scale once more didn’t bear that out. Well, after today’s shooting, which added more than 70 shots to what was already on the gun, the cocking effort has dropped to 32 lbs. The rifle is getting into the area where it’s worth taking notice! Do you remember that I said it probably needs to be broken in? I may have proven that in this test, but I need to test the velocity, again, just to show that lighter cocking doesn’t also mean a loss of velocity.
After over 70 shots, I found myself tiring from the session, so I stopped; but the rifle didn’t seem that hard to cock. This is a surprising and happy revelation.
Trigger
As I was shooting targets today, I found the trigger very heavy. I’ll try to adjust it lighter next time. It’s still smooth and crisp.
Firing behavior
The gun still shoots dead calm without vibration, but the two-way recoil is very noticeable. I had to tighten the ring caps after the scope slipped 3/8 inch from recoil in the first 15 shots. That was my fault for not tightening the screws enough to begin with.
Summary
These groups are not what I had hoped for, but they do show that there’s a right way to hold the gun. I don’t think I have that hold perfected, yet, but I’m closer than when I began. I actually believe the NP2 is capable of much better groups than those you see today because there are smaller groups that look wonderful in each of the final groups.
Crosman said they were able to get one-hole groups at 35 yards. I’m not there yet, but I’m certainly able to put 5 out of 10 into a single hole at 25 yards. Next time, I’ll shoot only Premiers and will begin the test knowing how to hold the rifle. It should get better from there.
Yes, the blog went down last night as it was published and we are now up after 13+ hours. We have received emails from many readers, plus Pyramyd AIR has received more emails.
Thank you for your patience on this.
B.B.
AVG detected “apache tomcat” blog server as a problem.Hope this helps!
Reb
Hi BB,
Thanks for posting testing that doesn’t go as you had expected. It helps new and veteran airgunners alike to know what to do when things go wrong. I know that you, and all of us, are disappointed at the groups you are getting so far. I would sure love to see you get the 1 hole group at 35 yards that Crosman said they got. That would be exciting.
It has been my experience that when I got my best groups with a tight hold on a springer that there were still issues to work out, and that once those issues were worked out that the light hold worked best.
We had a good first ever Dallas Field Target Club Field Target match this past weekend. We had 26 shooters including 6 or 7 guys that had never shot FT before. I shot terrible but still had fun. I have GOT to get some CPH pellets and practice a lot off the bipod.
We had two or three target issues that we can fix before the next match. I think the next match is in a couple of weeks at Pecan Plantation in Granbury.
David Enoch
David,
Yes, there will be a short piece on the field target shoot tomorrow.
As far as this test goes, I remember saying back when I first shot the NP2 that I would reserve all judgement until I saw the results on paper. And I am not done yet with the testing. The rifle seems to want to perform — let’s see if I can make it happen.
B.B.
BB, I also meant to suggest that you install an adjustable objective scope before the next test. I don’t know how much that could be affecting your results but I know it’s not good.
David Enoch
David,
Yes, I have to admit this scope isn’t doing the rifle any favors.
B.B.
Hello B.B. et all,
I second this emotion. What scope, rest, and pellet was Crosman using in their tests? But before changing scopes, try the parallax test you once described; rest the gun on bags with the scope on target at 25 yds and move your eye position around to see if the point of aim wanders around. Also try brushing the bore and check the breech pivot bolt tension. Well, maybe hold that last one. I’m sure you would have noticed if the barrel was not holding position after cocking… I was just mentally going through my springer checklist.
I’m suspicious when a springer doesn’t shoot better with a loose artillery hold. Sometimes though, it seems as if my harder recoilling springers like a little more shoulder pressure and a light trigger pinch between index finger and thumb.
Sounds like Crosman didn’t get something right just yet.I’m kinda excited about this breakbarrel being so powerful and quiet, I hope It proves to be accurate but it sounds like this gun should still be in R&D.I’d like to have one but I’ll wait til the bugs get worked out.Thanks for takin’ one for the team B.B.!
Reb
Hey B.B.,
I read for about the 150th time that you use your bathroom scale to test cocking weight. Nothing wrong with that, maybe.
Whenever I go to the doctor, I weigh about 10 pounds more than I do on my home scale. I’ve always chalked it up to having my clothes on and keys in my pocket. However, recently, I bought a 20 pound hand weight for exercising and I got the idea to weigh this standardized measure.
You know my scale weighed it at 17 pounds!
Now, my scale is about 10 years old, but I’m curious if you’ve ever calibrated your bathroom scale. Could be that I got a bad one (or a good one since it flatters me), or it could be that bathroom scales just are not that accurate. What do you think?
Rob
Rob,
I thought the same thing about 15 years ago, so I have both a balance beam (doctor’s) scale and a regular analog bathroom scale. Both read the same to the pound through 210 pounds.
B.B.
Yeah, I was sure you would have thought of that…was just saying just in case. 🙂
I suppose it’s possible that the shroud got twisted during cocking.With this design I don’t see a way around it being a Demon in the closet.
Reb,
Yes, that does happen. I keep an eye on it.
B.B.
BB, nice job on the detective work, I had a similar issue with the brake on my Chinese gas ram rifle and broke out the dremel to fix the problem. Groups immediately got better and so did my patience and my confidence grew. I’m not surprised about the hold technique needed for this rifle, I have to grip my rifle and use my front hand to keep aim and the muzzle down, but just right of course! I think this rifle has definite potential but QC has to be worked out and i’m sure Crosman is on it already. I will buy one for sure, it has so many good points already and the price being one of them.
Ricka,
I have tested many rifles with gas springs. This one has responded the quickest to changes I have made, Hopefully that will continue.
B.B.
BB, this is my first gas ram and it took me a LOT of pellets to figure it out. Now that i’m getting good with it I hope I can just keep my scope in place, my rifle kicks like a mule! If the NP2 is as smooth and responsive for you then I have to add one to my collection at some point. I know you talked about it but how about the loudness? You shot it a lot during testing did you notice or was it that quiet you didn’t even think about it? Silence is golden…
Ricka,
It is quiet.
B.B.
Need your advice.
My grandson is coming to visit tomorrow for a week. He is 9 and is a slightly built, nerdy book worm. He comes from a shooting / hunting family and has already taken deer with his .22 hornet. He had the advantage of a rest in a deer stand.
He wants his own air rifle to help keep unwanted birds out of their vegetable garden. I have prepared my Umarex Fusion with a Bug Buster scope. If he can handle it, then problem solved. If not, I am looking for suggestions for a break barrel youth rifle for him.
I was surprised that there was not a list of junior sized air guns on the Pyramyd AIR website. I am sure some of you fathers, that have had the same issue to deal with, can lend some ideas. I was hoping for one with a minimum of 700 FPS, so he can make clean kills. Seems like most youth rifles are in the 500 FPS range. I do realize that it is “foot pounds”, not “feet per second” that is important.
Thanks for your input
Jerry,
Yeah, I’m surprised, too. Pyramyd AIR used to have a youth category on their old site. But they were all low-velocity guns, which is the opposite of what you want.
Edith
There goes that request inexpensive lightweight hunting springer again.Being 5’5″& being back down to 125 lbs again,I find my QB-36 a bit on the large & heavy side especially with 2 broken ribs on my cocking & holding side.Both hands full with the underlever & loading!I usually wind up setting or laying it down before it ends up ready to shoot.It’s my only pellet firing spring gun and is on the back burner for the time being.My 760 testing has also been sidetracked due to puppies getting my test pellets mixed up, which now have been combined with about 200 Crosman pointed pellets.Wow,What a mess!
I just made up my mind to put my Point sight back on my 953 & enjoy the accuracy of it and my Remington Airmaster for a little while,instead of testing all the time.
Reb
Reb
Aint that the truth. It is fun to just enjoy shooting them thats for sure.
I would rather plink than target shoot. More relaxing to me anyway.
My son and I tested nine different pellets in his 760 last winter for accuracy, velocity and penetration as well. The accuracy and penetration were tested at 10 yards. If you’d like I can pull out the file tomorrow.
Ben, My test was going to determine what size BB’s have pounded the bore diameter to.The H&N sample pack I bought had 3 different head sizes and I was going to use whichever diameter shot best outta the 3.
Reb
Jerry,
The best quality springer that comes closest to your requirements that I can think of is the Weihrauch HW25L which only weighs about 4.4lbs and shoots around 600fps.
G&G
I bought a Walther Lever Action about 6 months ago. The intention was to put a rifle in my girlfriends hands that didn’t recoil and was not hard to cock. She loves it. You know what, I do too! It an open sight rifles, but I can consistently hit the baseballs that I have hanging in my trees at 40 yards (4 out of 5 shots) It gets about 400 good shots with the 88 gr. CO2 cartridges. I just got my 2 x 12gr. Adapter in the mail over the weekend and have not tried it yet, but from what I’ve read it should put out about 110 shots. That will be about half the price of the big cartridges. I think this rifle is the cats meow! I’m going to have one shipped to my Dad for his birthday, I know he’ll love it. It. Reminds me of shooting his 30.30 when I was a kid. It will also give me something to play with when I fly out to Washington State to visit. If I remember right it chronys at around 580fps with Crosman Premier 7.9’s. Crosman Premier Wadcutters are just as accurate and cheaper. I recommend this rifle. It made Momma happy to be included in my obsession. My 13 year old ‘pink and frilly daughter loves to go and shoot with me too. All the girls in my life are happy. LIFE IS GOOD !
Kansas Heat,
Now, that is a story with a happy ending. Good for you!
B.B.
Thanks for your suggestion. We have a neighbor who is decorating his home
with American Indian art and early frontier stuff. He wanted a lever
action rifle for his wall. He is also a Canadian citizen and cannot buy a
firearm. I ran across the Walther lever action rifle on the P.A. website
and told him about it. He bought it and has been having a blast shooting
it in his bark yard. Not sure if it is going to make it to the wall 🙂
Jerry in Texas
Jerry,
Yes on the Fusion with Bug Buster. But make sure he can rest it as he shoots. I would stay with CO2, based on your requirements.
B.B.
Thanks for everyone’s input. He will be here tomorrow so we will see if he can handle the Umarex Fusion.
B.B.
I noticed someone mentioned a test you once wrote about checking parallax . You moved your head around while looking through the scope to see if the point of aim changed. It hit a huge nerve with me. I have eye damage in my aiming eye from Glaucoma and don’t see but a pie shaped section from about 2 o’clock to 4 o’clock. Because of this, I am never sure if I am looking through the center of the scope. Do all scopes change aim points when you move your eye around in the eye piece?
Jerry,
The best scopes have so little parallax that it is hardly noticeable. Try a Hawke scope.
B.B.
Funny was thinking the same, there are some good accurate, quiet, light co2 rifles around. Jerry just buy the kid an air arms s200 .22 cal hunter and be done with it for awhile. He will praise you forever…
It sure would be nice to find a decent gas sproinger for under $300.
B.B.
Basic question: When you say you have the target at 10m, what is that distance measuring? Is it the distance to the target paper of: the tip of the gun’s muzzle, the front foot of the shooter, the front of the shooting bench, or …?
Thanks!
Jim,
It means from the muzzle to the target, But don’t obsess over that number. In Olympic air pistol competition, they measure it the same way, but the length of different shooters’ arms does make the distance somewhat variable.
B.B.
BB,
Do you know if they are going to have a Roanoke show this year?
RR,
It may still be held, but I don’t see it listed on the Airgun Hobbyist site for upcoming events:
http://www.airgunhobbyist.com/UpcomingEvents.php
Edith
RR,
Dave Schwesinger always lists his shows late.
B.B.
BB, does the barrel pivot use a screw or is it a pin? I hope things get better. You shouldn’t have to work so hard to make it shoot. Something doesn’t seem to be right.
Mike
Mike,
It’s a screw.
B.B.
B.B.,
I read this last weekend and thought of you, and was reminded of it after reading today’s report on the NP2.
Like you, I’ve read Mann’s book, The Bullet’s Flight. This reference mentions the poor results he achieved when he shot a spring piston air rifle from his V-rest.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/message/1402851195/Artillery+Hold++%28+pre1916+version%29+data+found+in+odd+book
RB
RB,
Thank you so much for that reference!
B.B.
I had one of the .25 cal. (notice I said had) nitro piston xl’s. It was a pain in the you know what to get to shoot. Very picky on hold of the gun.
I had to hold it about like I held some of the fire power rifles I have shot. I had to pull it in to my shoulder,tighten up the grip on my trigger hand. And then I would even have to lay my hand in the rest then hold the front of the gun with pressure than I normally would.
Here is something I was thinking but I don’t know because I haven’t shot a NP2 break barrel yet. But I know that .25 cal. old style nitro piston gun would kick up and down along with back and forth when it shot.
Whenever the NP2 shoots does it just bump back and forth or does it move up and down in anyway. or does it just move up and down when it shoots.
I watched some of the video reviews last night on the PA site since the blog was down. I was surprised to see how alot of the different type of break barrel guns kicked differently.
One of the guns I thought was a cool little rifle was the Bronco. It looks like its a good little shooter. I think I may just end up with one of them especially for the price of the gun. I want to get that HW 50S in my hands and see how it feels too. I think I see myself getting on a spring gun kick if you know what I mean. No not the gun. Me getting some break barrel guns.
Oh and I forgot I did have one of the .22 cal. NP XL’s and it was not as fussy of a gun as the .25 cal. XL was. I’m wondering if they used different strength nitro pistons in the guns or if they used the same nitro piston and the weight and size of the different calibers made the guns act differently.
GF1,
The NP2 goes back and forth.
B.B.
B.B.
Believe it or not, but I looked at this rifle and felt there’s going to be some trouble with the grip. It may be the angle at which the photo is made, but to my eye the grip is set too low relative to the trigger. The place where your thumb web touches it is way low and thus produces all the wrong angle. I could suspect that perhaps the rifle’s stock is touching the area between your thumb web and wrist, and this affects its movement on shooting cycle when holding it “artillery way”. By tightening your grip you moved the hand lower and neutralized that influence. Perhaps in classic ambidextrous stock this rifle could show much more impressive results.
duskwight
I myself am not enamored with this style stock and would much prefer a “classic” style stock. Maybe Crosman will figure that out and offer this in a different model soon.
I think part of the problem we see here is a gun made from cheap plastic. You can’t make a superior product from inferior parts. I see this a lot with Crosman. It seems to me they are making a lot of false claims. I have been looking at reviews of these guns from other sources. They all are making the same claims of cheap workmanship and inaccurate rifles. I think I trust the reviews more than I trust the company since their entire job is to convince you the product is worth buying. An independent review with nothing to gain either way I find is a bit more fair. So I really did not expect too much from another crosman product.
Perhaps one day Crosman will offer a premium line of air rifles that are comparable in quality to that of Weirhauch or such. I personally would be willing to pay a competitive price for such.
John,Ditto.I had two nitro pistons two years ago and they got sent back.The clams they made were false.Could not hardly hit a coffee at 20 yrds! with first one.Second one shot better with only wad cutters then for no reason the hole groups would change as far as two inches from last group and it was not the scope.I don’t have them anymore and what a let down.Hope BB can iron this out and find this gun worthy for the money because $250.00 would be a fair price if this thing shoots. Don’t mean to be negative or I told ya so person but I got my doughs one this one but hoping for the best. but then again ya get what you pay for most of the time.
For $250 I’d go over to Hatsan and get a 135. I had the opportunity to check one out and found it to be a very nice gun for the money and fairly accurate too. My advice is forget crosman and go where the quality is for that price. Anything firing under 1150 fps a baffle is kind of wasted on a springer and over 1150 it still does nothing for the sonic crack of a pellet breaking the sound barrier. So I’ll always go with quality for price.
John,
Have you ever shot a Hatsan springer? Cocking one is like bending the bow of Hercules. That is what this NP2 has that the others don’t. It can be cocked by mortals.
As for accuracy, have you read my reports on the Hatsans? I have never tested a 135 for this blog, but that is only because I once tried to cock one at Pyramyd AIR and, after discovering the effort to exceed 70 pounds, I resolved never to test it.
If I can get the NP2 to shoot accurately then the world will have one more inexpensive breakbarrel that can shoot. There aren’t many of them at this time — as you probably know.
So far it has lived up to a lot of the promise that I saw at the Shot Show. The cocking has become easier, the trigger is crisp — if too heavy, the report is very quiet and the firing cycle is dead calm, though it does recoil in both directions.
I will not bash a product for where it is made, and not even for what it is made of. If this rifle will perform, then it is well worth the price. If not, then at least we will all know why.
B.B.
Yes, I have tried the 135 out. I agree I had to earn every last shot as I ran the gun through a chrony for a friend. Although I wouldn’t use it much I found the gun to be really nice. Lucky for me I’m not a mere mortal and cannot be killed. I do however have issues with Crosman’s love affair with cheap injection molded plastic especially on their higher end Benjamin guns. If I’m paying $250 or around there I expect first of all that there will be very little plastic. If Hatsan can meet that expectation for around $250, so can crosman. I expect to see nice quality blueing, nice woodwork, and a very nice trigger. If other companies can deliver that Crosman can too. You suspected this inaccuracy problem was because of a misformed baffle. That also gave me reason to worry. When I heard plastic baffles I instantly thought of what kind of shrapnel I might find if one took a pellet hit thus wrecking the gun. Then earlier I hear the shroud can be cracked by somebody over tightening it because it’s plastic. Another issue. And the results of the target test are showing what many other current mode;l crosmans seem to have a problem with….accuracy. Reminds me of the MTR77 that can’t hit the barn while inside the barn. For $250 I do expect higher quality than I feel this gun is giving. It just doesn’t seem to be quite up to snuff in my opinion.
I had wondered if the artillery hold works for gas spring guns. Is this result unique to this gun or general for gas pistons?
Thanks again for the wealth of input into my question over the weekend. J-F, you ask all the hard questions. I don’t like multi-pumps either, although I have to admit that I’ve never tried them. 🙂 I spent time reading the reviews of the Crosman 2240 and 1377, searching for a reason to choose one of the other. Along the way, I got thinking that these two guns are probably part of the base on which Crosman builds its reputation. Reviewers were very positive on both with the 2240 winning by half a star–five as opposed to four and half for the 1377. What looks to be the deciding factor is noise. The 2240 is supposed to be as a rimfire shooting 22 shorts and that will not do. The 1377 appears to be quieter, and I am sure that it will be with three pumps instead of the maximum 10.
On the subject of the steel breech, it looks like Crosman has designed an “intermount” that will work with the plastic breech. The accessories are certainly tempting.
Fred DPRofNJ, now I know that there are how-to videos on everything. 🙂 Yes, it would take a car to drag my spam cans along. And even that doesn’t take into account the super-durable Russian construction. I could see those cans tearing up the road and suffering no ill effects whatsoever. But once inside the spam can, the Russian packaging takes another strange turn as I see from unboxing videos. The ammo is loaded loose in lots of 20 into these miniature brown shopping bags!? This crate is obviously meant to be open far behind the lines. Anyway, the little shopping bags enable this very weird YouTube video. This guy acts as kind of a Mister Rogers from hell narrating how he removes his Mosin ammunition from its little paper bags, smirking the whole time. Kind of weird. A dramatic idea that didn’t quite work out.
Matt61
Hey Matte, just want to put in a good word for the 1377. It is absolutely quiet…especially as you can reduce the number of pumps. The pumps, I would say, are louder than the gun firing.
Also, I want to remind you of the crosman 2289 which comes with the ‘bug out kit’. It’s a .22, and shoots a bit harder than the 1377, has a slightly longer barrel, plus it comes with a snap-on carbine stock which should make it crazy-accurate. I just ordered one over the weekend.
I prefer the pumpers over co2. They slow you down, which I think is a good thing. They also don’t mind the cold weather.
Rob
Matt,
I always start with the artillery hold for any spring gun — steel or gas. But gas springs are different animals and may require modified holds.
B.B.
BB, Thanks for the information re the centerpoint scope. My 3-9 centerpoint scope has a 40mm objective with an AO that has 30 ft. as its closest parallex setting. What mount should I buy so that I can put it on my Beeman R7 ? Thank you , Ed
Ed,
I’m going to let others recommend a set of rings to you. I would just pick a set of high rings and be done, but some folks have said their R7s are droopers.
B.B,.
BB,
I don’t know about R7s but my HW30S (which should be exactly the same gun, except for the stock) does not any ANY barrel droop. Zip, nada. By far the most accurate springer I own out to 30 yards.
G&G
Ed
I use medium height rings with no slip tape on mine. I use high rings On my R9s . Depends a lot on how your face is made.
If you look at the gun and see that the barrel distinctly droops, then I suggest you get a drooper mount.
twotalon
My np started acting very funny, and then wouldn’t cock. I’ve taken it down and found the cap end of the piston were it meets the body has lost a bunch of plastic ring chunks. All else looks fine, but that area is the seal for the gas I believe. It will go back together but seems that it will continue to break up this cap and eventually the piston will fail. I don’t know if Im going to put it back together, I think Im just going to put the .22 barrel on a trail np pistol, if it’ll fit, and I think it might. Bummer. Excuse to get a new gun? I think so.
BB, have you tried again with the Crosman MTR77NP? Last time I checked you had some accuracy problems, but I couldn’t find any other report to see if they were corrected or not.
Fred_BR,
No, I never tried the MTR77NP again. I have returned the rifle, so that test is over.
B.B.
BB,
I know it will likely be a dud, but if you get bored,test the Gamo P900 for us.
RR,
Now THERE is an invitation that’s hard to turn down! 🙁
“I know it will likely be a dud…” What? Are you bored?
Is there any compelling reason you want me to test this pistol — other than the fact that it will likely waste my time?
B.B.
G&G, Twotalon, Thanks for your input. Ed
BB, my gas piston rifle also does not shoot well with a conventional artillery hold. Here’s a couple tips that might help, try a gripping it like a pistol except eliminate almost all pressure from your middle finger pressing into the web of your hand(so forward recoil can move freely) pay most attention to rolling the wrist forward to lock it very firmly to brace against the initial recoil). Also try sliding your off hand farther out then typical(over a full hands width from the trigger guard on my rifle) this should help keep your sights on target through the shot cycle . And my last tip, you’ll know when you got the right hold because the harsh double recoil will be precieved to be considerably less. Using this grip my groups shrank small enough to inflate my ego faster than the U.S. dollar.
Ben,
Thank you for this! Those tips are things I will try the next time I shoot this rifle. I’ve experienced this with other gas springs before, so it doesn’t surprise me that this has to be handled differently, and the NP2 acts like I am so close to discovering the full secret.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if this thing would shoot? 🙂
B.B.
It’s always wonderful finding a gun that shoots better than I can. Then it I usually customize the how it fits so I can shoot my best. Only one time have a got a shooter that fit like a glove right out of the box and it was like magic.
HOWZ’T BB, I WAS JUST WONDERING IF HAVING BAFFLES ON THE BARREL IS THERE A SPECIAL WAY TO CLEAN IT. I HAVE A NP 1100 AND WHEN I GOT IT THE BARREL NEED CLEANING THEN I STARTED TO GET GOOD GROUPINGS.
Ivan,
You know, in all this discussion, I think you are the first person to suggest that I clean the barrel. That will be easy to do and I will do it.
Thanks, and welcome to the blog.
B.B.
Which would you say is better, the trail np2 or the trail np xl?
Ben,
If you are asking me, my vote is for the NP2. It’s already better (more accurate, quieter, easier to cock, smoother shooting) than the XL and there is a long way to go.
B.B.
Which one would you say is better, the NP2 or the Hatsan 125 sniper (vortex or npss, you pick)?
I am a newbie & I’m having a hard time finding a review of the Hatsan 125 sniper (vortex or npss). I’m not able to navigate this sight very well for some reason.
BTW, which one of those two Hatsans is better?
airhorn,
Here is my 5-part report of the Hatsan 125:
/blog/2012/03/hatsan-125th-air-rifle-combo-part-5/
Hatsan spring rifles are hard to cock and have mediocre accuracy at best. The NP2 I am testing has already surpassed them in all respects.
B.B.
So, one more dumb question. Does the 125th have the same “guts” as the 125 sniper(vortex/npss)?
airhorn,
I have every reason to believe so. That’s how model numbers are supposed to work.
B.B.
B.B.,
Has Crosman themsleves gotten back to you about any of these test results or your running concerns, i.e., pellets hitting the shroud, accuracy, etc. ?
Just curious if they have interest or answers for making their product work at its best?
Thanks, – John M.
John,
I am expecting to talk to Jennifer this morning.
B.B.
Don’t lose that dime…it’s pre-65 90% silver
bill,
That dime has a story of its own on this blog. Read it here:
/blog/2012/04/the-dimes-story/
B.B.
On the np2, Tom, can you put a better scope on the gun before (part 4) comes out. Others have reported , better results with their target shooting. Thanks; Ron
Ron,
I am going to do several things before I test the NP2 the next time. A better scope will be one of them.
B.B.
Thanks Tom. Ron
Hello Tom,
First off, Thank you for your service in rerporting what you see when testing these air guns.
This is my first post. Im just getting back into airguns. I was waiting in long anticipation of the arrival of the NP2 since hearing about it from posts at the shot show. Ive preorderred one. Im very curious of your discussion with Crosman/Benjamin. What have you heard from C/B on the issues found? Do they have a plan to resolve before more product gets shipped?
What can you share with your readers?
New Kevin,
Welcome to the blog. May you stay as long as old Kevin has!
I haven’t heard from Crosman yet. Jennifer their VP of Marketing was supposed to call me to talk about it on Thursday, but their CEO had her in meetings all day. I imagine it is a madhouse at Crosman these days!
I will tell you guys all that I know about the guns. But where I used to have good connections with Crosman, I no longer do. So I will only hear what they want to tell me. Some of that will be the “party line,” no doubt.
I have resolved to continue to test the NP2, just as if it was my own. I’m already set up for another accuracy test this coming week. Hopefully I will get better accuracy. But you will see the results, whatever they are.
B.B.
In all cases you describe the hold of your forward hand. Can I assume that you are resting your elbow on the table for stability? Can I also assume that you are opposed to resting this rifle on a bag and only holding the rear of the stock, “sniper style”?
Whatever I do, I am getting multi inch groups. My hold is steady. My sight picture is steady. But my groups appear random at 20 yards…
Ronbo,
Welcome to the blog!
I am using the artillery hold, which means I;m resting my off hand on a sandbag and my other elbow is on the table.
Read this article and watch the video to see what I mean:
/article/The_artillery_hold_June_2009/63
B.B.