by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier
Part 1
Part 2
Secrets of loading the Benjamin Marauder magazine
Benjamin Marauder
Today, I’ll begin a look at accuracy for the Benjamin Marauder precharged pneumatic air rifle. If the Marauder was a normal PCP, this would be one quick report, but it isn’t. The owner has the ability to change not only the rifle’s power, but also the fill pressure the reservoir will accept. That makes testing a Marauder potentially complex if you want to try everything, and we certainly do want to do that here. So, today will just be a first look at potential accuracy, after which I’ll determine the shot count the rifle now gets with the best pellet, and then tune it to a preselected optimum range and test it again to see if the shot count increases. Neat, huh?
I know I’m going to shoot this rifle a lot, so I selected one of the best scopes I have — a CenterPoint 8-32x with parallax adjustment. The scope I chose is an old one from the time when Centerpoint was having Leapers make all their scopes. It’s no longer available, but a close equivalent would be this UTG scope.
Where to begin the test
Oh, boy, where do I start? I thought it would be good to test a number of premium pellets and try to find 1 or 2 that stand out for accuracy. Then, I’ll concentrate on those pellets, which will help me focus on what has to be done.
I shot at 25 yards indoors because that’s the distance at which things start to happen. If a pellet is going to be accurate, 25 yards is usually far enough for it to stand out.
This is one time where 5-shot groups come in handy. I decided to shoot all the pellets I’d selected in 5-shot groups and see if 1 or more of them stood out as exceptionally accurate. Five-shot groups save time, pellets and air; and when you’re faced with testing 8 different pellets, as I was, it makes a big difference.
If there was no favorite pellet, I would just have to pick a couple pellets and proceed to work with them. But as it turned out, this rifle does have a favorite. When I show you how much better it is than the others, you will probably say what my wife, Edith said when she saw the groups. She couldn’t believe that 1 pellet was so much better than all the rest, and exclaimed, “Woohoo,” involuntarily.
Marauder’s noise level
But before I get to that, when I walked into her office to show her the groups, Edith asked me what airgun I was testing because she couldn’t hear it. She thought it was some low-powered air pistol. And our female cat, who normally runs around the house complaining whenever I shoot, slept through the whole session. As it stands right now, the Marauder I’m testing is about as loud as a politician volunteering to do something proactive in a non-election year.
Pellets tested
I selected the following pellets to test:
Crosman Premier 10.5-grain
Crosman Premier 7.9-grain
JSB Exact Heavy (10.34 grain)
JSB Exact RS
RWS Superdome
Beeman Kodiak
JSB Exact Monster
JSB Exact Express
I did sight-in the rifle, but not so it would hit the center of the target because that would destroy the aim point. Nevertheless, a couple pellets did do just that. Fortunately, it was at the end of the 5 shots and no harm was done.
Average groups
The Marauder is accurate no matter what pellets it shoots. It’s better with some pellets than others. Take a look at some of the 5-shot groups.
Five RWS Superdomes made this 0.528-inch group at 25 yards.
Five 10.3-grain JSB Exact Heavys made this 0.376-inch group at 25 yards. It’s better than the Superdomes, but still not great.
Five JSB Exact Monsters made this 0.316-inch group at 25 yards. It’s the second-best 5-shot group of the test.
Okay, I could live with the JSB Monster group, and there were a couple other pellets worthy of further examination if that was the best the Marauder was going to do. But it wasn’t. When I shot 5 Crosman Premier lites, the whole test changed.
Five Crosman Premier lites made this 0.139-inch group at 25 yards. It is hands-down the best 5-shot group of the test.
It should be obvious that Crosman Premier lites are the best pellet of those tested. On the basis of the 5-shot group, they’re twice as accurate as the next best pellet. Now, it was time to shoot a 10-shot group with them and see where that took us.
Ten Crosman Premier lites made this 0.285-inch group at 25 yards. This is exactly what I was looking for.
Obviously the 5-shot group was no fluke. This rifle really likes this pellet.
What’s next?
Where do we go from here? First, I’m going to fill the rifle again to 3,000 psi and shoot nothing but Premier lites to determine the total shot count with the gun as it’s currently tuned. You may remember that we found this rifle was tuned to the max when we did the velocity test in Part 2. While that high speed obviously doesn’t hurt the accuracy of the Premier lite pellet, wouldn’t it be nice to get several extra shots from a fill and keep the same accuracy? The rifle currently shoots Premier lites at an average 1,015 f.p.s., and I think an average 900 f.p.s. will be just as good. That’s where I’ll be adjusting the rifle. Several of you have asked how the power is adjusted on the Marauder, so this will give me the opportunity to show how it’s done.
Then, I’ll count the total number of shots at that new velocity, and we’ll see what reducing the velocity gains, if anything. I’ll also test the accuracy at the new lower velocity to see if the rifle is still just as accurate.
After that, I plan to adjust the maximum fill pressure of the rifle. I’ll experiment with the rifle operating at a lower fill pressure while still getting the same velocity. This will be at the new velocity of around 900 f.p.s. We’ll see what benefits there are to having a lower fill pressure.
I do plan on shooting the Marauder at 50 yards, too, but that will come after all the adjustments have been made and evaluated. By then, we should know the test rifle very well and be able to tune it for the best performance. There’s a lot more in store for this rifle!
B.B.,
The group those cpl’s made are very impressive. Good shooting (as usual). Suspect it was the lack of cat interference LOL!
The Crosman Marauder is such a great platform that many don’t grasp. The ease of tuning for your needs (basement short range/high shot count vs. high fpe, within reason and tempered with accuracy, for hunting or long range paper punching is supreme.
Very interested to hear about your techniques for tuning.
Don’t think I say it often enough but I really appreciate your dedication to the shooting sports. I’ve learned so much from you but more importantly you’ve instilled and rekindled a passion for shooting accurately and what shoots accurately. Thank you. It’s been great fun. For me and the kids.
ps-for your long range tests, especially in higher velocity airguns like the .177 marauder. would you please consider testing the same pellet with different head sizes. As you know, for high velocity guns baracuda match pellets (aka Kodiaks) come in a variety of head sizes (unlike Kodiaks) and your tests would be elevated if you included baracuda match in various head sizes. The bc in these pellets warrants these tests. I know you can’t test every pellet. But please do a test or two with different head sizes to acknowledge it’s warranted especially in high powered guns like this .177 marauder.
kevin
Kevin,
I would like to consider head sizes in the Marauder test, but as it now appears to be structured, I don’t see how to fit it in.
Let’s both give this some thought and maybe we can come up with a way to test head sizes at 50 yards. I will be testing the Condor SS some more, so maybe that’s a possibility?
B.B.
B.B.,
I’m curious as to how the CP heavies did? Isn’t it the case that heavy pellets are usually better for PCP’s?
Aiming off-center would cause group sizes to increase due to canting. These are excellent groups! How did you control (avoid) canting?
Victor
Victor,
I didn’t report the Heavy group, but it is sized .318, so it falls into the set of groups that were close to the JSB Monsters.
B.B.
I thought PCPs did better with heavy pellets due to the pressure curve vs spring — but given the adjustability of the Marauder it might be that some settings can’t support the heaviest pellets.
Matt61,
Sorry, I didn’t notice your answer from June 2.
I agree, shot placement and bullet energy transmission level is some sort of the equation – if you lack in one, you can compensate it with the other. I’ve heard stories of hunting hares with KPVT (14.5×114) mounted on APC – concussion levels requires to shoot .3 m above it, and it’s enough for the hare.
Well, sometimes they try to unite both shot placement and energy transmission in one 🙂 I wonder if you heard about VSSK “Vykhlop” (“Exhaust”) – a 12.7 mm dedicated silent sniper rifle. Cartridge is 12.7×54. http://vimpel-v.com/uploads/posts/2013-05/1368446405_124.jpg Pure energy in subsonic, extremely accurate up to 650 m and also armor-piercing.
duskwight
Well that is some extreme info there. How do they now if they hit the target after those rounds make contact. Bet there is nothing left pretty much of the time.
duskwight,
Don’t get me started on chasing yet more odd Russian calibers. It took 10 years, but I finally got all off the people around me to see the value of the 7.62x54R… And, “normal” ammo is scarce enough around here! But wait…… 12.7x54mm…. Hmmmm!
/Dave
/Dave
Rimless 😉 I believe that the base for this cartridge is cut-down .30-06.
duskwight
The new ultimate! Gonna have to look into this further….. 🙂
Isn’t 12.7 comparable to the .50 BMG?
Matt61
Matt,
Close, but not exact match. Mostly heavier bullet, a tad slower speed, AP has almost the same kinetic energy, but API has c. 1,5 K joule more energy.
duskwight
Did you compare the 7.62X54R with the .308? It’s tempting to dismiss the old cartridge with it rim which I believe was obsolete almost as soon as it entered service 120 years ago. However, Lapua apparently claims that the 7.62X54R is more accurate than the .308. The Lyman Reloading Manual doesn’t make a direct comparison, but it is very loud in its praises for the Russian cartridge. I have Privi Partisan cartridges to try out my rifle, so I’m giving it the best chance. However, that 182 gr. will produce a thump.
Matt61
Yes, I shudder to think about all the head injuries and trauma discovered in the Iraq War as a result of explosions. So much for all the movies of people ducking down from explosions that missed them by a hair and then walking away. The damage was done. At least in Fast and Furious, a woman loses her memory after she gets blown into the air by an exploding car, although she retains all of her other faculties.
As a matter of fact, I’ve noticed some exotic new Russian sniper rifles online, but didn’t get around to clicking to investigate. I have the greatest confidence in Russian guns which is why I was surprised that their bolt-action replacement to the Dragunov was apparently unsatisfactory and not very accurate–so much so that the Dragunov has remained in service although it is not particularly accurate. But maybe that’s just a news story and they pull out much better hardware when they want to get serious.
Matt61
Matt,
Journalists 🙂 SVD remained in service because it’s a tougher and better suited for DM, covering 300-600 m range with precision “kill & suppress” fire. It’s mostly “counter-machine gun” weapon integrated into infantry squad structure, the way it was designed and used. And bolt-action SV-98 is a pure sniper’s instrument, designed for “kill” fire, it is more accurate than self-loading SVD. The problem actually was with scopes, developers tried to jump over their own and 20-year-ago state of the industry. Now it’s gone – with imported sights or improved local models. And with high quality ammo – it doesn’t eat machinegun-grade rounds as effective as SVD does, too pampered I guess, so some better ammo with much stricter tolerances was to be made for it.
For truly amazing guns you must check ORSIS T-5000. That’s _the_ rifle. 😉
duskwigth
Not only did she retained all of her other faculties. She also retained her good looks. 😉
J-F
Isn’t there a chance of the favorite pellet changing depending on the velocity at witch it’s getting out of the barrel? Is the 1000fps favorite pellet also be the best 800fps or 900fps pellet?
This is some very impressive groups. Man do I wish I could get one of those with the shrouded barrel (they’re now available on a low scale level but permanently unshrouded here, so not backyard friendly 🙁 )
J-F
J-F
Sure, the favorite pellet can change with a velocity change. The question is…is it because of how well the pellet likes the velocity , or is it because of a difference in barrel vibration, or BOTH ??? No simple way to determine . Maybe at extreme distance look for keyholing and corkscrewing at different velocity. Might tell you something.
twotalon
Wow! I learn something here almost everyday! Never realized that pellets of the same caliber came in different head sizes.
Another ? for you guys, can you recommend an inexpensive break barrel rifle, it will be used to shoot the Marksman darts exclusively. I have the pistol but would like to try my luck with a rifle.
Thanks, Kevin in CT
Kevin in CT,
For darts you need a smoothbore. There aren’t any smoothbore breakbarrel springers around at this time, I don’t believe. If you live in CT you should go to the airgun show and try to buy a small Slavia or Diana smoothbore. They would be what you are looking for.
B.B.
Thanks Tom, I see it’s scheduled for next week. Talk about just in time!!
B.B.
You have a pretty good barrel on that one. I hope that the CPL do not start leading it up very fast during your testing.
I am going to do a bit of testing in a couple other areas in the near future. I picked up an infrared temperature sensor at Lowes yesterday. I am interested in looking at what kind of difference I get in tank pressure between indoors where the tank is filled, outdoors in a warmer temperature in the shade, and outdoors in the sun. I also want to see what the temperature of the tank rises to in the sun . I think I will also look at what kinds of temperature difference I can see between different parts of the rifle when in the sun.
I might even include testing as relates to barrel warming when shooting both PCP and springer for 10 quick shots.
This was prompted by something I saw a couple weeks ago when shooting the T200. I filled to 185 BAR on the tank gauge while indoors. It was about 12 degrees warmer outside and there was a bit of a breeze. I was set up shooting in the sun. After 10 or so shots I checked the gauge and found that the pressure was higher than I started with. That pushes the curve back down the front slope.
With my Talons, I always jack the power wheel a half turn if I take them out in warmer weather or in the sun, but not sure if it is enough. Would have to drag the chrono out to figure the worst case adjustment. Can’t do that with the T200. Must use a lower fill pressure, but have to determine by how much. Should be interesting.
twotalon
Mr.BB, Ms. Edith & the Gang, Have a great looong weekend. Thanx ya’ll. Shoot/ride safe.
Beaz
B.B.,
I don’t shoot past 25 yards, but nevertheless, I will be very interested to see how CPHs, JSB Exact Heavies, and the JSB Monsters do at 50 yards!
And YOW, mighty fine shooting! :^)
Michael
Michael,
I’m making this up as I go, but that was sort of my idea, too. I figured at 50 yards the heavier pellets might do better and I know the Monsters and CP Heavies are the two best.
B.B.
B.B.,
It’s no surprise to me that the CPLs did so well. Well, maybe THAT well! Sub-0.2 inch is the sort of 5 shot group I get with CPLs at 10 meters off a bag with 4X magnification with my Marauder.
I’m a crummy shot no matter what, as I have a slow-progressing neuro-muscular disorder that makes even the butt stock of a bag-rested rifle waver a bit for me. Obviously resting my trigger elbow on the table helps some, and I even try to rest the edge of my trigger hand on a separate, stable riser such as a stack of small but thick books. (I wear a size 4XL glove, so the edge of my palm usually extends beyond a rifle’s pistol grip by quite a bit.)
Also, when I get a some new Marauder magazines, I expect the CPLs to feed without a chance for distortion of any kind given their relative hardness. I wonder if those who find a noticeable accuracy difference between the single shot tray (all I have to use for the time being) and magazines might not find that to be true with CPLs and CPHs. I could see how it could be the case with RWS pellets, however, given how soft-skirted they are.
Michael
I should add that I have my Marauder toned down so as to get the maximum shots per fill.
Michael
B.B.
Wow! I am really impressed with those groups. That’s absolutely the best I have ever done but that was from 20 yards not 25.
I have the Crosman Premier 7.9 Gr. pellets but it never occurred to me to try them in my Marauder. I was assuming (mistake) that they would be too light for this much power. I will definitely try them out this afternoon. If only I could shoot a group like yours. We’ll see.
I also recently purchased this UTG scope and put it on my A.A. S400 MPR. It is a really great scope and is the single best one I own.
Keep up the good work and if your ever in Northeast Florida I am willing to pay for shooting lessons and dinner’s on me.
G & G
G&G,
I thought the same as you about the Premier lites. I was shocked to see results like this.
I can’t wait to see what happens out at 50 yards. Also when I dial back the power to 900 f.p.s.
B.B.
B.B.
I forgot to ask. When you shoot do you rest your hand on the bag rest and then rest the rifle in your hand or do you rest the rifle directly on the bag rest?
G & G
G&G,
When I shoot a PCP the gun rests directly on the bag. I use the hand with springers, only.
B.B.
The gun looks like a tack driver. I might look into trying to get hold of one of these in the future. Not happening this month though since today is the 4th of July and the only day of the year I get to legally blow stuff up without cops arresting me for it. I’ll be putting on quite a show tonight almost as good as the one I doid when I first went to New Mexico and found out to my delight that everything that was illegal in Michigan was legal down there. It’s all legal in michigan now. Cops got tired of wasting the entire 4th of july chasing illegal fireworks when there were more serious things needing their attention. So lansing made it all legal now.
Happy Independence Day!
Now, lets try to remember what that means during the next elections, and prepare by getting out there and educating people now! (I know most of you already do this, I’m kicking myself in the behind…)
/Dave
6+9… No fair! I don’t have that many fingers!
Mr. BB, Ms. Edith & the Gang, have had a multi faceted, vauge question that’s been rattlin’ around in my itty bitty little brain for awhile & these groups you shot w/the M-Rod have solidified it to where I think I can put it into words. Sorry, but it’s going to take some explaining in order to understand my question. When I ride there are so many little things I do that are just pure instinct. So when talking to/teaching a greenhorn about high speed cornering & they ask, “ok, now which lever works the clutch”? I really have to stop & think about the very basics, because I don’t, they’re instinctive. Awhile back you did a blog on accuracy. One of the Gang posted a great reply that accuracy is putting all 10 in the bull & precision is how close together those 10 are. Knowing that I have a looong way to go before I can even qualify as lousy, if I shot this M-rod & was able to get 10 off before someone took it away & made me go stand in the corner, I’d have a benchmark to compare my groups against. So, while I’m over here dong the pee pee dance waiting for my TX, my question is: at what point do you KNOW that anything less than a xxx group @ xx yards with xx gun & set up is due to a flaw in my basic fundamentals? Put another way, a couple days ago I managed a .360 @ 20 yards with Mr. Nasty (please, spare me the blind squirrel analogies) but many of you could step in right behind me & shoot a single hole group. That would be cool because now I’d know what the gun is capable of & that I’ve got more work to do. So my Mr. BB recomended TX fun pak, in the hands of the master is capable of…?
Any thoughts or input, Gang?
Thanx ya’ll, shoot/ride safe,
Beaz
Beaz
I have the same question. Only answer i come up with is, if my groups are not shrinking over time (assuming as many variables as possible held constant), then have someone(s) else shoot the gun. If their groups are smaller, i’m the problem.
john
I can’t answer your question, Beaz… But… I’d be tickled if I could shoot .360″ @ 25 yds any time! That’s a little less than 3/8″, or about as good as I can do with my AA S410E from a rest! But again, take that for what it really is since I only very occasionally get to sit at the big table myself…..
/Dave
Thanx for the response, guys. Exactly my question! Is a .360 worthy of a party complete with cake, ice cream, dancin’ girls & lotsa beer (not that I ever need an excuse for the beer part) or am I just now at least in the ballpark of what my set up is capable of? Kinda tough ta answer, huh? Think we oughta ask Mr.BB/Myagi, or leave him alone & let him rest?
You need an excuse for girls and cake ??? :shrug: ok……
I think consistency is the thing to work on. Find what works, like you did with that group, and then do exactly the same every time until it turns into instinct and you don’t think Abbott it anymore. Like back in the stone age when we learned to ride… You just stop thinking and let muscle memory take over.
Life lesson here son, learned after years of extensive research. When you’re done with a beer, it’s gone, but bad girls & good cake tend ta stick around & not always in the right places…!?!
Sorry, but ya really set yourself up for this one, pal.
Gee, Dave why don’t ya get a smart phone…
Oh,man!! Look what I just stepped in!!! 😀
Beazer,
You have asked the fundamental question of life. I think you will understand my answer, but I doubt it will help you very much.
How do you know when you are getting the accuracy you should get? You don’t. Flat out, you can never know if the gun, the pellet, the shooting style or any other thing or combination of things is giving you everything you want from a gun.
That is both the fun of the spirt and also it’s greates turn off.
Here is a story. I have shooting buddy named Otho. Before we became friends, his criterion for accuracy was 5 shots in one inch at 100 yards. Then we met and he saw me agonizing over 10 shots and trying to put them into a half-inch.
Otho just got a .221 Fireball rifle that shoots 5 under one inch — at least it did when he got it. This past week he put 5 into 3/4-inch, but 3 were in 1/8-inch. He is now trying to find out why all 5 didn’t go into the same hole.
What I’m saying, Beaze, is it’s a journey — not a destination.
And the TX will put 5 shots into a quarter-inch at 40 yards when everything is right. I have done it — a few times. But you should be able to do a half-inch half the time.
By the way, when I rode lightweights, all my pegs had the lower half of their tips ground off.
Happy 4th.
B.B.
Howdy Mr. BB, thanx for the response, I’m honored. On the contrary, sir, You’ve nailed it. After 25 years of buildin’ & ridin’ my slammed, twist clutch, no front brake lever, chop, I got my bagger & was truly amazed that I’d forgotten how much I love to ride. Needless to say, the chopper sat in the corner of the man cave for a year & a half & NEVER moved! So, even if I hold it just right, put up with the major recoil, wear the right underwear & am having a really good hair day, shooting a .360 w/Mr. Nasty takes so much effort, it’s kinda like my 5th wife, just sucks the fun right outa it. Not really expectin’ the TX to gimme .250’s outa the box, just be alot more pleasant ta shoot as I get to my consistant sub .250’s. Am I dressed up & headed in the right direction, sir?
Surely a gun rest would cut through a lot of the undergrowth and give you a consistent basis of comparison although it wouldn’t give the best performance–as we know. 🙂
Matt61
Matt,
There is so much to this game! Otho discovered that a couple of his cartridge cases are a few thousandths too long — probably from an oversized neck-expanding button. Now — factor that in!
B.B.
Beazer,
What rifle did you shoot this .36 inch group @ 20 yards with?
Regardless, That’s good shooting. What this tells me is that you’ve very close to mastering the fundamentals. I’ve been exactly where you’re at, only to eventually reduce the group size with lots of refinement.
Your gun is a machine that is able to produce an output to within some tolerance. That tolerance is the big unknown. YOU, the shooter, are an extension of that machine, much like a peripherals to a Hi-Fi system. Your base component is the audio receiver/amplifier. It has some really low total harmonic distortion, say RMS 0.005% THD. But it isn’t this base component that determines what your overall system will sound like. The sound that you ultimately hear is a direct result of physical characteristics of the various peripherals (e.g., turntable, tape player, or the media itself) and the final output channel (sink), the speakers.
The quality of your turntable is in terms of things like Wow, Flutter, and Rumble. The records have a limited dynamic range, noise, and tracking issues. Your tape system also has a limited dynamic range and hiss, which can be reduced with noise reduction.
Your rifle is the base unit that is designed to effectively out produce any peripheral, YOU. YOU are not one peripheral, but many. Your trigger finger, trigger hand (which can inadvertently contract during the stress of squeezing the trigger), your cheek-weld, your shoulder, and your rest (hand, bag, etc.). There’s no magic that can make a gun shoot better than it’s defined tolerances. The best you can do is to refine each of your peripherals; trigger finger, hands, cheek-weld, shouldering, breath control, concentration, sight-alignment, and follow-through.
So what you need to do is:
1. Know your fundamentals – what constitutes good shot execution. Know them, trust in them, and honestly evaluate yourself against them.
2. Know the optimum place to rest the rifle, whether it be on your hand, or bag. Does your rifle shoot better when you rest it closer to the trigger guard, or further away?
3. Know how best to hold the rifle with your trigger hand. A lot of spring-piston guns shoot better with a loose grip. Some prefer that you drop your hand low on the grip because that causes your trigger pull to be straight back. Some prefer that you hold the grip high.
4. Know were best to place your cheek, and how hard. A light touch is usually best, but it must be done consistently. Maybe use tape to mark the best spot.
5. Know where to place the butt of the stock into your shoulder.
6. Know that the only way for you (all your peripheral machine components) to interface with your gun (the base machine component) such that the lowest possible tolerances are faithfully reproduced is by doing 1 through 5 consistently.
So as you go on this journey of discovery trying to find the optimal combination of everything, your biggest obstacles will be mental. Practice is how you reduce each of these things so that you no longer have to consciously think about them. But in the beginning you’ll have to be conscious of them because they are what you need to deliberately master or resolve.
As B.B. says, group sizes are a journey. Aside from the things that I’ve outlined, within the scope of the big picture you will be experiencing plateaus. These plateaus are proof of your capacity. I always say, never judge yourself by your failures, but rather by your successes. It normally takes time to move from one plateau to another. But that’s a huge part of the why we get so much out of shooting. But be warned, we sometimes slip and fall. Usually that just means that we have to go back and consciously revisit the basics outlined above.
None of this would be interesting, or even worth it, if it were not so challenging. Within your possession are instruments that allow your to measure how well your mind and body are able to extend with the base machine. I’ve said before that I see my guns as extensions of my mind and body. It can be looked at the other way around. Either way, it’s your personal journey.
Victor
Howdy Victor, As you well know, a very large part of my journey from 12 inch 2 shot groups @ 5 yards (yup, really was that bad) to that .360 was due to you takin’ pity on me & sharing your knowledge & experience. Thanx again, sir. Mr. Nasty is a .177 Nitro Venom Dusk, GRT trigger, UTG 3-12×40 AO scope, high UTG rings & a scope level. I’m using the same MTM rest Mr. BB uses. Have the forearm rest dialed in, the cheek weld is dictated by the scope eye relief & butt stock is rested on off hand. Butt doesn’t like anything other than a light shoulder rest. All very easy to consistently duplicate. Now working on trigger squeeze & grip not affecting my sight picture. Now that I can kinda, sorta hit what I’m aimin’ at, I’m running through my Baskin Robbins collection of pellets to find what Mr. Nasty likes. The .360 was w/Kodiak Match 10.65’s. But when Mr. BB gave us his top 10 a few weeks ago found 3 on his list I haven’t tried yet, so they are on the same order as the TX & will try them with my Incredible Hulk skivvies. After hookin’ up w/you, I started over @ 10yards & w/a ton of pratice, my spiderman underwear & hair parted in the middle, was able to fairly consistently shoot .230’s. So now I’ve moved back to 20′ and started over. But as ya well know double the distance, double the attention to detail. Thanx again for all your help & to the rest of the Gang for the many tips that I’ve picked up by playin’ Square head, baggy, spongy pants or whatever that guys name is & soakin’ up everything. Thanx ya’ll. Shoot/ride safe.
Beaz
Beaz,
lose the Spideyman underwear. The true answer is Homer Simpson boxers!
Fred DPRoNJ
Fred D, D-oh! Nice try buddy, I wuz born @ night, but it wasn’t last night. The only thing that works for cantakerous springers is the Superhero ones. Your Homers, Scooby Do’s or Mickey Mouse will work for your TX butt the Superhero’s would be a little much.
Beazer,
I’m say you’re coming along nicely! You got my number and e-mail. You’re always welcome to ask for help there or here. And thanks for the kind words. I’m proud of you for your efforts. They’re paying off. And let’s not forget that where the rubber meets the road, only YOU can take credit for that.
Victor
Victor (Uh, RCA Victor, perhaps?),
You’re speaking audiophile, which used to be my second-language! “Used to be” because about 12 years ago I finally assembled The System for me — one that sounded as sweet as I needed, something which I didn’t think possible until I had everything in place. (For those who have no idea what
I’m talking about, imagine finding an air rifle that is so much of what you are looking for that you suddenly lose all interest in even trying another air rifle.)
For me that was an all-tube signal path (including open reel tape and CD output, no transistor/solid state, no ICs, not even printed circuit boards, all tag board or hand-wired) and Shahinian Obelisk speakers.
I do have a point, however. For airguns not everyone wants accuracy above all else, but I think most os us here do. About seven years before I assembled my “forever system” of audio gear, a schism happened among the highest end audiophiles: the great “Measurements & good sound” camp vs. the “good sound & measurements don’t matter if it sounds good” camp.
Somebody figured out that a monaural, single-ended Class A amp using a single 300B power tube powering a paper cone AlNiCo magnet speaker in a direct horn enclosure reproduced acoustic instrument music (especially folk music, acoustic small combo jazz, bluegrass, and classical chamber music) in such a way that was mind-alteringly pleasurable to listen to.
These systems were about 5 watts mono, 5.0% THD before clipping, had almost no dynamic range, and a frequency response of a mere 200hz to 9khz. But the sound was capable of making the listener act like Meg Ryan at a table in a restaurant.
Kinda like the Walther PPK/s BB gun by Umarex. It is inaccurate past ten feet, but man, what fun to shoot!
Michael
Michael,
I’ve on occasion used Hi-Fi audio sales as an analogy to airgun sales. I once worked next to a import/export company that specialized in audio equipment. The owner let me read some of his trade magazines, which suggested what to sell and how to sell it. They broke sales groups down according to age groups. The largest, biggest selling age group was between around the late teens, and early 30’s. The trick to high sales was to sell them BRIGHT sounding speakers, and so retailers did. In my experience, these speakers tended to also have a biggest profit margin, so sale people would push them even over more expensive models of higher quality. Of course, you and I know that neutral and accurate speakers are the way to go. They aren’t very exciting within the parameters of a retail showroom, but they are what you can sit and listen to ALL DAY. So what sold the most was BRIGHT speakers which were impressive within the 5 to 15 minute demonstration, but beyond that caused severe listening fatigue. THAT is the equivalent to ultra high velocity airguns, with no other positive attributes.
Victor
Happy Fourth of July! Here’s looking forward to the day when IMR 4064 will become available again.
Whoa, that’s half minute shooting. Nice job, B.B. It’s even better than my highest hopes for one of my favorite guns, and that’s without even tuning it. However, while the Crosman Lites worked well in this particular gun, we can’t assume that it will work as well or even be the best pellet in another Marauder can we?
Edith, I would have supposed that you didn’t play tennis because you didn’t have the facilities. But here you have a hitting wall right at home–the same thing that I have to walk a couple blocks to and visit late at night when other people aren’t on the courts! You must have amazing self-control to keep away. I was there for another hour last night and just like the other hour I spent, I hit more shots than in my entire previous life. I’m sold on this activity. It is also very timely since I’m unable to shoot for the longest time since I took this up five years or so ago. The management is doing some major repairs and inspections over the course of the next few weeks. To clear space and also to hide my guns, I’ve had to put them away and dismantle my range. So, this is the first time I’ve gone without shooting for over a month. Awful.
What an interesting training strategy you have. I’m reminded of a person who ran marathons by imagining the faces of her enemies and stepping on them all the way to the finish line. It was amazing how creative people could be during long distance runs. One guy kept himself going by doing elaborate math problems in his head. In the study where I read this, it said that all of these strategems were examples of people trying to distract themselves from the misery of running. As another case in point, I knew a guy on the rowing team in college who really tried to put his mind to sleep to escape the extreme pain. He would just return to consciousness in the final 500 out of 2000 to concentrate for the final sprint. Why do the sport if it’s so miserable, I wondered.
Anyway, the original study said that at the elite level of performance of long-distance runners–which has plenty of discomfort too, the emphasis shifted completely, and the elites, rather than distracting themselves were extra conscious of everything in their body. This makes sense if you’re trying to win. But, more subtly, if you’re focusing hard on anything, even the source of your own discomfort, it is a way of distracting yourself too.
I’m going with the second approach. In part, this is too much fun. I’m just astonished at how keeping the racquet moving sets up the next shot. I feel like I’ve discovered some deep principle. Also, I’m not doing this at any elite level either. And I won’t be playing until much later in the day either. The heat index is supposed to get up to 117 today. Keep cool everybody.
Matt61
B.B.,
I know you could spend a lot of time covering the Marauder with just what you are suggesting so far. Maybe more than you signed up for. PA’s most popular sell eh?
I have been wondering lately about using mine ( .22 cal) with C02. Info on that would be cool but maybe beyond the scope of this particular topic. The ability to use C02 is one of the neat features of the rifle and one I would like to explore.
Mark N
Mark,
I don’t have the equipment to fill the Marauder with CO2, but I did test the Talon SS on CO2. It shot a couple hundred f.p.s. slower, is all that happened.
B.B.
Mark N,
B.B. loves the Marauder, and I think he wants to review it as many ways as he can since it means he would have to shoot it more!
Of course, he’s not the only one who thinks it’s great since it’s Pyramyd Air’s top-selling rifle. While I’m sure Crosman sells a lot more of their lower-priced guns, I bet the Marauder has knocked their socks off when it comes to sales.
Edith
I’m still waiting for “The Definitive Guide to the Marauder” to go to print <G>
Or would that be “The Big Dummies Guide to the Marauder for Idiots” (to grant equal billing).
BB,
An odd question I know, but can you provide the diameter of the tip of the probe that pushes the pellet into the barrel?
I’m muddling over odd considerations of the tip. How concentric is it to boreline? Diameter of tip vs diameter of the “flat” inside the back of the pellet.
The website PhotosbyKev has pictures of the Crosman Premier and the JSB Exact Express. First a link to the premier then to the express:
http://www.photosbykev.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/db_crosmanpremier0177/crosmanpremier177_2.jpg
http://www.photosbykev.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/db_jsbexactrs177/falconap177_2.jpg
It would seem that the premier has a nice large flat surface for the probe to push against. This large flat surface would be forgiving if the tip was just a hair off from concentric so long as the tip diameter was smaller than the diameter of the flat spot.
The JSB has a rather conical surface on the inside back of the pellet. Forcing the JSB into the barrel even a tenth (?) of a degree off center would make all of the difference in the world when it comes to shooting a small group.
I know the egocentricity of the tip might not be THE cause for the poor performance of the JSB pellets, but it seems to be a somewhat overlooked factor.
Herb,
We have guests for the holiday. I will answer this as best I can on Sunday.
B.B.
I’ve lost the o-ring in the quick connect fitting on my Benjamin hand pump. What size o-ring does that take and does Pyramyd sell them? I can’t find them on the website.
Thanks,
Randy
Sun Optics manufactures the hand pumps for Crosman. They sell rebuild kits for them also. So I bet they would be able to get you the correct o-ring for the quick disconnect. There are so many different size o-rings that even measuring one from a fitting could be wrong.
But here is the phone number to Sun Optics if that helps any. (817)783-6433.
AirGumby,
Contact Crosman for info on the o-ring size. They may send you one gratis.
Edith
Interesting…
Prior to reading your report…
I came to the conclusion that Crosman tuned the rifle out of the factory to some type of domed Premieres…
I’ve been shooting Hollow Points with great success…
Competition Wadcutters have been horrible…
Destroyer EX, which my break barrel loves, are also horrible in my M-Rod.
Really cheap Daisy HPs shoot straight, but are off up-and-left a little…
The rest of the cheap stuff lives up to expectations… those containers will be paper weights.
I got around 100 shots out of 1000+psi (3000 down to a little below 2000) without me noticing any loss in accuracy (short range, of course). I’m thinking that maybe I got an exceptional gun because I keep reading about WAY fewer shots per fill!
With my own results with the Premieres and your results, the rest of the pellets that I have for testing may stay in the containers… and I probably won’t bother to fiddle with what I consider to be gun that makes me look like a really, really good shooter!