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Education / Training › The Walther LGV Olympia – Part 1
by Tom Gaylord, a.k.a. B.B. Pelletier Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 10-22-10-01-Walther-LGV-Olympia Walther LGV Olympia was a top-quality 10 meter target rifle from the 1970s. The weather cooperated yesterday and gave me a perfect day at the range, so I was able to shoot the Walther LGV Olympia at 50 yards. I also shot the Talon SS with the 1:22" twist barrel before the wind kicked up and stopped all airgun shooting, so I'm on the way to the final test of the different twist rates. I knew the LGV Olympia was never going to hit the target, no matter what I did to the rear sight, so I placed two 3-inch bulls on a 2-foot by 4-foot piece of target paper and used them for sighting. The shots landed far below these bulls, of course. How far is an eye-opener, so I took a picture of it so you could see. 06-22-13-01-Walther-LGV-Olympia-50-yard-groups The pellets landed about 18-inches below the aim point at 50 yards. The sights had the pellets hitting the center of the target at 25 yards, so this is how far they drop in the second 25 yards. Notice that the center of the group of JSB Exact Jumbos on the right is about 2 inches lower than the center of the RWS Superdomes on the left. I fully expected this to happen, so I stapled the bullseye targets to a huge piece of target paper, so the pellet holes would show. Knowing they could well go to the same point I used two separate bullseyes as aim point, and from the picture you can see that was a good idea. I selected the two best pellets from the 25-yard test for this. They were the JSB Exact Heavy, which was the best pellet at 25 yards, and the RWS Superdome that took second place. I shot off a sandbag with the rifle rested on the flat of my hand in the classic artillery hold. The flight time of both pellets was extreme. Although I couldn't see them in flight, the flight time told me they were dropping rapidly as they moved downrange. JSB Exact Heavy The first pellet I tried was the 10.34-grain JSB Exact Heavy. It is far too heavy for the LGV Olympia powerplant, but in the 25-yard test 10 Exact Jumbos went into a group that measures 0.354-inches between centers. So a novice might expect that since the range was doubled, the group size would be as well. That would give us something like a 0.70-inch group for this pellet. 06-22-13-02-Walther-LGV-Olympia-50-yard-group-with-JSB-Exact-Heavy The 50-yard group was larger than expected. Ten JSB Exact heavys went into 2.285-inches What I actually got was 2.283-inches between the centers of the two pellets that were farthest apart. Thats roughly 6 times larger than the 25-yard group and more than 3 times the expected size, if you simply try to extrapolate from 25 yards to 50 yards. This is why you have to be careful when making generalizations about accuracy. The shooting conditions were perfect for this test. There was no breeze to speak of and if I felt something I always waited it out. I also had no shots that were called as anything but perfect. So what you see here represents the best I was able to do with the LGV Olympia at 50 yards with this JSB pellet. RWS Superdome The second-best pellet at 25 yards was the RWS Superdome that gave me a 10-shot group measuring 0.695 inches. Multiply that by 6 and you get an anticipated group size of 4.17-inches. I'm doing that because of what happened with the JSB Exact Jumbos. 06-22-13-03-Walther-LGV-Olympia-50-yard-group-with-RWS-Superdomes RWS Superdomes opened up even more than JSB Exact Jumbos. This group measures 3.062-inches between centers. What Superdomes actually did was put 10 shots into 3.062-inches -- so it was better than predicted (if you use the 6-times predictor) but was certainly much larger than simply double the 25-yard group size. The lesson here is that group size does not simply increase linearly with distance. We hear that all the time. If a certain gun shoots 1-inch at 100 yards we say it should shoot 2 inches at 200 yards. I'm saying that rarely happens. Usually the group will open faster as the distance increases. Not always, but usually. Evaluation The Walther LGV Olympia is a remarkable airgun. Out to 25 yards it is extremely accurate, plus it is very easy to cock and quiet to shoot. Beyond 25 yards, though, the LGV Olympia quickly gets outside its comfort zone. There just isn't enough power pushing the pellet to hold the group size to what you might expect. These results are consistent with the results I got when shooting the FWB 300S at 50 yards. Installing a scope helped, but only marginally. So I'm not going to put a scope on this rifle. I'm satisfied with this test and that's as far as I'm going in this test.

The Walther LGV Olympia – Part 1

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by B.B. Pelletier


The Walther LGV Olympia is a beautiful breakbarrel spring-piston target rifle from the 1960s.

Well, the Roanoke Airgun Expo starts today, so while you read this, Mac and I will be buying, selling and looking at airguns. I will take pictures to show you, of course.

So, there I was, on the morning of October 5, reading my October 4 blog, “A safe strategy for no-loss — mostly gain — airgun collecting — Part 1,” when I came to the embedded link to the Yellow forum classified ads. Since I always check the embedded links in blogs, I clicked through and immediately came upon an ad for a Walther LGV Olympia target rifle in great condition for $425. What? Are they going to be selling Harleys in crates left over from World War II next?

And, then, I noticed that the seller was none other than Tom Strayhorn, one of America’s most well-known collector of Walthers. I knew Tom was a straight shooter, so this ad was apparently no scam despite the 1990s price. Ironically, this ad came to me right as I was lecturing to all of you that a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity comes along every few months if you look for it.

So, I bought the gun. What else could I do? I had just told you not to miss out on really good prices when they come along, and here was one that just landed square in my lap. Talk about serendipity!

Walther LGV
During the 1960s, spring-piston target air rifles reached their high water mark. There was the Anschutz model 250, the FWB model 300, the Weihrauch HW 55 and, in 1963, the Walther LGV joined the fun. The LGV was the last in a long line of target breakbarrel rifles from Walther that started in the 1950s with the LG 51. Its immediate predecessor, the LG 55, is well-known as a fine European club gun, and the LGV took that one step farther. Although it’s a recoiling spring-piston rifle, the LGV is so smooth and heavy as to be almost recoilless. It was produced until 1972.

There are several different versions of LGVs, and mine is the first model called the Olympia that has rounded corners on the wood. I owned another Olympia LGV years ago that had a matte finish on all the barrel jacket to cut the reflection, but this current one is probably an older model that has all deeply polished metal finished in a deep black oxide. The polish is fully the equal of a Whiscombe or a Colt Python with the royal blue finish.

The forearm contains a lead weight to make the rifle decidedly muzzle-heavy, as target rifles are supposed to be. The rifle weighs 10.5 lbs., or just about one pound more than a 1903 Springfield rifle. It’s very muzzle-heavy, not only from the lead weight in the stock by also from the thick steel jacket that surrounds the barrel.


The heavy steel barrel jacket is held on by a special nut at the muzzle.

Casual observers will spot the barrel latch immediately. Like Weihrauch’s HW 55 target rifle, Walther provided the LGV with a special latch to positively lock the heavy barrel closed. The LGV was the only breakbarrel Walther did this for. The LG 55, which is quite similar in size and power, does not have a barrel latch.


Barrel latch locks the breech like a bank vault.

To compliment the latch, the baseblock has two hardened steel pins, one on each side of the block, that eliminate any possibility of sideways wobble in the barrel. In combination with the barrel latch, they make a vault-like rigid joint when the barrel comes to the closed position. Like the doors on a Mercedes, the barrel closes with the quietest of clicks that mask the ultra-rigid lockup.


Hardened steel bearing pins on either side of the baseblock ensure zero sideways barrel play.

Cocking effort on the LGV Olympia is legendary. It’s one of the few adult models to cock at less than 12 lbs. effort. This rifle has been tuned prior to my receiving it, so it may cock a little harder, but it’s still on the silly side of trivial. I will record it for you when I test the velocity in Part 2.

You’ll notice that the grip is heavily stippled to grab your hand during a match. These rifles were shot from the offhand position only, so all the design features stress that position over all others.


LGV grip is roughly stippled for better purchase.

The curved buttpad is rubber and adjusts both up and down. The trigger is a fine target trigger, although it is of 1960s technology and not the current day. It’s two-stage and breaks at 11 oz. And, of course, it’s adjustable.

The stock is figured walnut (I think) with a reddish-brown finish. It’s very full and robust, yet the forearm has no checkering, stippling or even finger grooves. It seems almost informal compared to the other contemporary target rifles. The Olympia was not intended to shoot in world cup competition. That honor was reserved for the LGV Spezial and the UIT models.

The front and rear sights are target-grade and identical to those found on the LG 55. In the front, a globe accepts standard inserts; in the rear, Walther’s own proprietary aperture target sight prevails. The rear sight rail allows for some adjustment of eye relief, though the rear sight has to lock down in one of the half-round cross slots on top of the receiver.


The LGV uses the same rear aperture sight as the LG 55.

I’m not a target rifle shooter, but I must say that this rifle holds steadier than any other rifle in my collection. Mac is supposed to bring a Weihrauch HW 55 CM for me to see, so I’ll get a chance to compare that to this gun. But of all my target rifles, this one is the steadiest.

In Part 2, I’ll chrono the rifle for you and measure the cocking effort.

author avatar
Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier)
Tom Gaylord, also known as B.B. Pelletier, provides expert insights to airgunners all over the world on behalf of Pyramyd AIR. He has earned the title The Godfather of Airguns™ for his contributions to the industry, spending many years with AirForce Airguns and starting magazines dedicated to the sport such as Airgun Illustrated.
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89 thoughts on “The Walther LGV Olympia – Part 1”

  1. BB,
    You are definitely in tune with Mother Airgun. What a neat looking rifle. I’m really partial to that look. I’ve been traveling to Phoenix for the last three days and trying to keep up with the blog at the same time. Difficult task since some motels have pretty worthless wi-fi. I’m at my brother’s now(you may remember him from the Phoenix NRA show) so tomorrow I’ll get caught up. Hope you’re enjoying the Roanoke Expo. You’ll probably be really busy now.
    -CJr

  3. Morning B.B.,

    Your first photo says it all to me–she’ll be shooting as good as she looks which is gorgeous. Did she come with all the sight inserts? Enjoy your day guys! We’ll be thinking of you and wondering what goodies you’ll find to share with us.

    Bruce

  5. BB:
    What a cracking deal on such a beautiful rifle.
    The weight comparison between the 1903 Springfield you gave is interesting.
    A common misconception amongst non air gunners seems to be that Air rifles are not very substantial.
    Fair enough,they will not compete in the power stakes of most powder burners but when it comes to substance and build quality,they are well up there.
    DaveUK

  8. Nice looking rifle. Did this model compete at the Olympic level? That’s an interesting comment about the 1960s as the high point of spring guns. Surely, manufacturing methods alone have improved quality since then just as they have for firearms. The comments about the rifle’s specialized ergonomics make sense to me. Your truly dedicated target rifle is not much good for other kinds of shooting.

    B.B., I’m glad you told me about your keyboard the other day. I looked like you were shouting at me to lube my cases. 🙂 Alas, this is one of those intangible and difficult to measure skills that could also cause serious problems which I was hoping to avoid. On the other hand, thanks to all for your repeated recommendations for Lee reloading equipment. I’ve looked into it and it’s a steal. This must be the IZH 61 of reloading with its price and quality. I’ve even come up with a solution to the lube problem. I’ll just dry-fire my reloading equipment: load up ammo and never fire it. 🙂 Maybe in a few years once I get the right feel, I’ll actually shoot it. Matt61, thanks for the valuable comments on Lee reloading gear. But who are you? I’m reminded of the scene in the Matrix movies where Agent Smith runs into a version of himself and says, “You!” The other one says, “Me!” And the first one says, “Me too!” 🙂

    I’ve been looking into Spock’s memory test after he is reborn in the movies, and it is hysterical. Favorite question: “Adjust the sine wave of a magnetic envelope so that anti-neutrons will pass through it but not anti-gravitrons.” There’s some rocket science for you. Second favorite question: “What was Kiri-kin-tha’s first law of metaphysics?” To which the answer is: “Nothing unreal exists.” Ha ha. You don’t need Kiri-kin-tha to tell you that. I don’t know who makes up this stuff.

    Matt61

      • BG_Farmer – I believe that basic principle can be formally traced back to Aristotle:

        “To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true”

        • Vince,
          Not surprising that a similar tradition arose on Vulcan :). Is Aristotle discussing tautology in that quote? — to be honest I can’t place it, but assume it is something on syllogism. What I liked about the Vulcan quote is that it is just a hair short of tautological, i.e., it implies a previous syllogistic correlation between “being real” and “being”, which is pretty bold for a first principle.

  10. Tom called me several times from the show. He & Mac are having a ball!

    Mac just bought a tuned Mendoza RM-200. I don’t recall if Tom bought anything.

    He mentioned that he met Kevin Lentz. Finally, he can put a face with a name.

    Business has been brisk at the show. Usually, Friday is the busiest day. In recent years, Saturday was very busy, too, because they combined it with a gun show that was held elsewhere in the civic center.

    I’d give you better updates, but I think Tom’s too busy having fun!

    Edith

      • Edith

        I bet Tom and Mac are having a ball. They are truly in their element. I would have loved to go myself, but Tom said the bed of the truck would be full, and the alternative he offered me was definitely not DOT approved.

        OOoooh, that Kevin Lentz! He is a sly one isn’t he? All his “yeah, I don’t think I can make it”, and “travel schedules interfering”. Should have known. Just like Tom, it is like sharks to a bloodbath, he couldn’t miss it. Good luck to them both.

        So, do you think your hubby will come home with a fist-full of cash, or a truck-load of new airguns?

    • Everyone,

      I’m writing this Saturday morning, before going to the show. Yesterday was very strange. Instead of me cruising the hall looking for great deals (which were there in abundance, by the way), a couple deals just came over and beat me into submission. They will be the height of the report I make on the show.

      One is a Falke 90, which is the predecessor of the Hakim trainer, I believe. The other is a Winchester 427 variation of a Diana model 27. You’ll get a full accounting in my report, and I will test both guns for you as well.

      There is a beautiful Sheridan Supergrade there that I’d like to pop on, but it will use up all of my money and I don’t want to walk around penniless. So today will be interesting to watch, as well.

      B.B.

  11. B.B. is everywhere! I just received my TalonSS, as an upgrade from my (much loved) Discovery. Imagine my surprise when I slipped the DVD in to watch the overview. Who’s face appears? Yup, Tom Gaylord. I thought Elvis was everywhere, but now I know better. B.B. is.

    FYI: I really like my Discovery, and it’s my favorite airgun in my collection. That’s why I’m selling it. The sad fact is that it’s just a weeee bit loud, which limits my ability to shoot it, everyone in the valley gets to enjoy my hobby. After looking around a lot, and falling for the FX Gladiator (which costs more than my first car), I chose the versatility of the AirForce rifles, and started with the TalonSS for it’s quiet shooting. I prefer the classic styled Discovery, but the versatility of the AirForce is pretty impressive and hard to beat. I’ll adapt to the tactical look, not my favorite, but I don’t hate it.

    Sound report: What a bizarre sound. It sounds like a weak metalic ‘clink’, then the pellet smacks the spinner with similar force as the Disco. How strange, sounds wimpy but hits hard. I’m not sure, but I think that sound is the spring/hammer more than the muzzle report. Can anyone confirm? Can’t wait to get the scope zeroed better and see what it can do. Yeah, it’s quiet so it’ll get to shoot much more than the Disco. Sorry Disco, I love ya, but my neighbors don’t need to share my hobby. Any tips for an AirForce Talon newb?

    • Hammer slap and tank ping are normal.
      I don’t know how you are running it or how you want to run it, so will offer no tips at this point.
      Hope you have a chrono.

      twotalon

      • I’m not really sure myself. The Talon has so many ways to configure it, I haven’t decided. The Disco was easy, just pump and shoot. My thoughts on the subject, subject to change as I learn more about the talon… It is approaching cold weather here, so I tend to head indoors and shoot in my basement 10m range. For that, I was thinking about going CO2, since I don’t need lots of power for that distance and the basement is warm enough. CO2 should also give plenty of shots for indoor target practice. I plan to extend my basement range to 15 yards, but CO2 will still be more than enough. The problem with this approach, is I still like to go outside once in awhile in winter, and CO2 isn’t real great in the cold. (Working on a solution for that though – I have a beat up heated vest. The vest is worn out, but the heating element works fine. Think warm tank cozy, it just might work) Once the spring and warmth hits, I’ll most surely head out again, and likely switch back to compressed air. I LOVE how the Disco reaches out and touches far targets, and I’ll want to get back to that. I’m not sure i can hand pump the Talon though, so that’ll be the experiment this weekend. I love that the Disco shoots at 2000 psi, and pumping that is easy. I’m not sure what reaching 2700 to 3000 is going to be like. I’ll know soon. My shooting style is field target and plinking. I don’t hunt, except for pest control as needed. My yard is wooded, so the occasional pest must be dealt with; most of the time we get along just fine.

        Does this put it in perspective a little more?

        • You don’t say what caliber. I have barrels for both .177 and .22. I also have a micrometer tank along with the standard tank.
          You will get approximately the same MV with the barrels that you would with a Disco if run at full power with a standard talon tank. Turning the power wheel down to cut velocity will reduce it a lot, but he velocity will be erratic, and eventually the power will creep up…sometimes very quickly as the tank pressure runs down. Both of my talons like to start in the 180 bar range (2700-2800psi).
          Always lock the breech to the same side, and make sure the breech is pulled back against the valve top hat. This is important.
          I have noticed something that you might watch for and expect if you want to switch tanks around.
          The rifle will not shoot to the same place with different tanks. You would expect the poi to simply be higher or lower depending on which tank, but it does not work that way. Even two different tanks of the same kind with the same fill pressure and top hat setting will shoot differently. Expect this to happen.
          CO2 should be good indoors because of the high shot count, but you will still need a good pellet trap. I suggest duct seal. And don’t shoot too many pellets into the same holes.

          Another note about power adjustment…
          You can expect to reach full velocity long before you adjust the power wheel to max. Somewhere between 6 and 8 will run it at max on a full tank. Higher makes more noise, but no gain in velocity and empties the tank faster. You are dealing with a short barrel here, and it simply cannot use the extra air.
          At some point the mv will reach max with the power wheel turned all the way down.

          Use silicone grease on the breech o-rings as described in the video once in a while. You could expect the gun to be a bit flaky at first untill the grease gets spread out and of consistent thickness. This could last 30 shots or so.

          Get a good set of allen wrenches for the screws. You need only 2 or three of them for the whole gun, but they need to fit well. Standard fractional sizes . No metrics. Do not over tighten screws or you will strip threads or screw heads. A loose screw makes the gun squirrely.

          I suggest high mounts for the scope because of the size and shape of the tank.

          Pellet seating…
          Make sure the pellets are seated with pressure! Do not simply drop them in or they will fall back into the breech. If enough of the pellet sticks out of the barrel that it can be seated with your thumb, then it will work fine, but watch out…
          If the pellet only falls in flush or a bit below flush you will have to devise something to seat it with. Some use the end of an allen wrench. I have blunted and bent nails for the job.

          Don’t worry if a pellet loads loose and has to be seated with a tool. There can be a lot of inlead. The barrel is heavily choked and will grab the pellets well.
          Try cp and exacts. If you shoot cp, oil them a bit to prevent leading.

          twotalon

          • Another thing about scopes…
            Make sure you get an AO that will adjust close enough for your indoor shooting. Mil dots are a big plus.
            You will find that for indoor shooting you should be able to find a mil dot in about the right place and adjust the magnification so that the right dot will be on target.
            The bore is considerably lower than the center of the scope…by around 3″.Simple scope adjustments are not practical at very close range. You have to use a dot and variable magnification.

            twotalon

          • Wow, thanks. The rifle is a .22, sorry for omitting that. I really appreciate the detailed info. I am disappointed about the tank changing the POI, I planned on carrying a spare in my daypack when I head out in the woods. A slight POI shift is not a problem, how large does it get? I guess that makes sense since the valve is on the tank, not an integral piece of the rifle’s firing system. Seems like an issue.

            Question: is there a POI shift just from removing/reattaching the tank? The top hat probably won’t go exactly to where it was.

            Indoors I sometimes use open sights, sometimes a scope. My ‘good’ scope is an AO model with reasonably close focus. I can focus at 10 meters, but that is about as close as I can get it. Shorter than that, no scope needed anyway. I use a 22 cal rimfire bullet trap in my basement, no worries about that.

            Any concerns about stripped threads? With these guns, the tanks are going on and off quite a bit.
            Thanks again for the great info.

            Eventually, I want to get the regulated air tank to be able to have more consistent lower velocity shots. I heard elsewhere that the lower velocities were inconsistent, but the micro tank addresses that problem.

            • To answer you backwards…

              The micro gives you less velocity, but is not regulated. You lose velocity with every shot. How far you are shooting and what poi drop you can live with will determine your shot count.
              The velocity curve of a micro is a straight down hill line. You can’t shoot a bell curve with it.

              The tank valve and the collar in the gun’s frame are steel. Wear is minimal.

              Stripped threads are a danger…. aluminum frame and steel screws. Don’t overdo it. Also, don’t overtighten the tank. The collar in the frame is held by two setscrews.

              Nothing ever lines up perfectly, so different tanks and different valves will not position identically. Poi differences may be very small or fairly large. Varies from tank to tank. Tank valve springs are also different , along with valve spring tension settings. Even if the top hats are set the same, they will not work the same. For a given fill pressure, the power wheel will need to be adjusted for each tank to get full velocity without wasting air.
              Optimized adjustments with each tank for shot count and accuracy can leave you with two different setups for two different tanks in fill pressure, tophat setting, power wheel adjustment. Do not try to take the tank apart to fool with the valve spring tension. The tank has to be drained, and the valve is a royal bear to remove.
              If you switch between tanks you will have to see for yourself how each one works in relation to the other. Figure out a way to identify each of them.

              One last thing for now…
              The tophat may settle a bit for a while. Once it finds a stable position the consistency will improve. Tophats can also come loose and/or turn. If you need to tighten the two set screws (.050) do not over do it.

              twotalon

              • Missed one……
                When you stay with the same tank, the poi does not seem to shift. At least after the threads get used to each other. It seems to find it’s own alignment spot.

                You might notice that after a fill or having it sit in the rack overnight or longer that you may need to fire a shot (with a pellet) to resettle the valve. Also if you adjust the power wheel you will usually need to waste a pellet to let everything settle again. Some guns are worse about this than others.

                twotalon

                • Missed another one….
                  Velocity gets inconsistent if the tank pressure is too low or high, the tophat is too low, the power wheel is too low or high in some cases. It depends on HOW the velocity was lowered. Can be a combination of variables.

                  twotalon

              • POI variability with tank change:

                Ummmm… this variability of POI is making me a bit concerned. My Disco is extremely consistent, some temperature variation when it gets really cold (shift left high), but not too much else. With the Talon, the tank has to go on and off a lot, with every charge up. I was really happy that the tanks are easily swappable, and small enough to carry a spare easily. Ok, you mentioned a given tank pretty much settles and is consistent once the rifle and it get used to each other, that’s good. I’m concerned about the tank to tank variability though. Do I need to re-zero the scope between tank changes? That would be suckish. Am I just over-concerned over a minor issue, or no?

                Jumping between HPA and CO2:

                As I mentioned, for indoor practice the CO2 is nice since it gets lots of shots per tank and is easily fillable. The pressure is lower, and I suspect the average pellet velocity will be lower too, and that’s fine for short 10m range. When outside, I want to swap tanks for HPA and crank the range up a bit. The tank design of these rifles has the valve/tophat on the tank, the HPA and C02 tanks are already setup, so no adjustments to the rifle for that piece, very nice. As for the scope setting though, what impact is this going to have? I suspect the center line should be the same, but the POI will move up or down the vertical ticks. I should be able to zero the scope with HPA and leave it there, and just use a dot/tick on the reticle for the CO2 POI (as opposed to the center cross hair which is set for HPA). Is this correct? Or is there more to it? Sorry if a dumb question, I haven’t had a rifle with such variability before, so I’m not quite sure about the impact it has.

                • There is no way to know how much poi change you will get if you switch between tanks. You would have to find that out for yourself.

                  Co2 and air differences…
                  Again we have a difference in valve and top hat alignment, but now have a velocity difference as well.
                  This would be similar to the difference I get between my standard tank and my micro. Of course, it should shoot lower at a lower velocity, but it may also shoot to one side or the other too. My micro shoots low-left of my standard tank.

                  Any time you swap around, you can expect a difference that may or may not require scope adjustments. Depends on how much difference there is.

                  twotalon

    • bristolview,
      Here’s my two cents:

      If you like the sound level of the Talon SS in .177 you’d be amazed at the Marauder in .22.

      Sometimes I use a ball point pen for seating pellets. Some pellet tail shapes match the pen point and seat perfect. Mostly I just use my thumb which does get tender after many shots. I switch thumbs often.

      I started with CO2 with the Talon SS but switched to air when the local CO2 stations became unreliable and down right damaging to my tanks. I refuse to shop at what was once my favorite store because of their carelessness with my tanks.

      It is sooooooo easy to switch back and forth between air and CO2 with the Talon SS. Practice with CO2 indoors, switch to the air tank outdoors.

      The Talon SS is and the Daisy 953 are my two most accurate .177 rifles. The 953 has the edge because of the better ergonomic stock shape.

      I got hundreds of shots on a 12 oz CO2 bottle.

      I fill my Talon with a scuba tank. I’ve never tried a hand pump.

      It is soooo easy to switch the Scuba tank between the Talon and the Marauder. Just snap on the adapter for the Talon.

      -CJr

    • Don’t sell the Disco! If the noise is the only thing getting you down, I believe that there are legal sound suppressors that reduce the noise to practically nothing. Someone else can tell you about them better than me.

      Matt61

      • Yeah, I love the Disco, but it’s noise keeps me from being able to shoot it daily. I did look at some aftermarket shrouds, but they got mixed reviews as to effectiveness. Does anyone know how any specific shrouds/add-ons help the Disco? The noise is really my only issue with the Disco, it meets my needs fully besides that. I actually like the sound myself, but it is rude to make all the nearby people ‘share’ my hobby daily. They hear it occasionally, but I want to shoot it daily.

  12. That’s about as pretty as a breakbarrel springer gets. I’m assuming the weight is near the max allowed in competition at the time it was designed and that it would be great to shoot. I’m sure the steady hold is due to the weight and forward balance, coupled with the short pull.

  13. B.B.,

    This rifle looks like it would be steady. It looks like it would be comparable to the FWB model 300 that I used back in the 70’s, except for the fact that it’s break barrel instead of side lever cocked, and the forearm part of the stock is not level with the trigger guard, like the 300. Having the forearm part of the stock level with the trigger guard made it easier to hold with your hand. Some people held it up on the front end of the trigger guard with their fist (part under the trigger guard, and part under the stock), while others held it more opened hand, placing their thumb under the trigger guard with the rest of their hand under the stock.

    But what mattered the most was that “steady” feel that the nice contours give you.

    Victor

    • Victor,

      Yes, the Olympia had not quite solved all the ergonomics of offhand rifle shooting, especially in light of the fWB 300. But compare the 300S to the old 150 and you’ll see that it, too, when through an evolution before it got really good. The 50 looks more like the Olympia.

      B.B.

  14. Can anyone recommend a good scope?

    Consider that I might be looking into Field Target shooting.

    I’d like a scope that goes down to 10 yards, but that would be usable at up to 100 yards. I don’t want cheap, but I also don’t want extravagant (but I’m interested in what might be practical – i.e., what some might consider to be a must).

    Thanks,
    Victor

    • Scope for FT is fairly specialized . Are you shooting targets, plinking, mini-sniping, or hunting, etc.? I like 3-9×32(or x40)AO because they are widely available and versatile in the field, but for anything over 50 yards, not much good for precise target work. For some rifles, I would prefer a smaller 2.5x scope, but the choices are limited and more expensive for little gain.

      I have a 6-24×42 on my heavy barrel .22, and it is a great rifle/spotter combination, but that rig never goes off road:). Even that will be considered small for FT, but I wouldn’t want it on a plinker:).

      PA has a pretty good choice of scopes, so tell us more about what you want to do and/or prioritize.

      • For starters, I don’t hunt, and I don’t plink. In all of my shooting, my primary interest is performance.

        I shoot paper targets, and plan on shooting the medal targets that they use in Field Target competition. At this point, I know almost nothing about FT competition, but plan on learning. My primary interest is always competition of one form or another. So my interest’s would be more formal, I guess.

        I’ve looked at the scopes that PA has, and thus far, I read lots of rave reviews for the various Leapers scopes, but I wouldn’t know which is right for what I plan on doing.

        I hope that narrows my choices down a bit.

        Thanks,
        Victor

        • That helps. For FT, you will want a large objective, probably x50 or x56, because it will make rangefinding easier; you might also prefer AO on the side. Thus ends my FT knowledge :), but you should get plenty of good advice from others. I believe Wayne found a Leapers that performed well in FT, but I can’t remember which one it was — he’ll most likely be happy to say when he comes across this. Anything that works for FT should be more than enough for shooting paper targets, groups, etc.

          • Victor

            I bought a Leaper’s 8-32X56 Side AO with a 100mm accushot wheel for my Benjamin Marauder. It would be considered FT capable, but not high-end.

            It is a great scope in my opinion. I had that rifle out today as a matter of fact. I had just let the cats out into the back yard and I heard a multitude of squirrels barking. I run and get my gun now.

            The large sidewheel allows me to zero in on my target with my forehand thumb on the sidewheel, while holding on target, standing off-hand. This is very useful in hunting and field target. I picked out a squirrel about 25 yards away, laying in the crook of a branch. At 32X magnification I could see the Sun highlighting the sheen of his fur and reflecting off of his big round eyes. The clarity was remarkable.

            I did not take the shot because he was cute, and I like squirrels almost as much as my cats do. Any I find in the attic are fair game however.

            It has a nice thin reticle which is red/green illuminated via tiny buttons that allow you to dial the illumination down to barely perceptible, which is the only usable setting for illuminated scope reticles. Most of them are far too bright even on the lowest setting. It also allows you to lock down W/E adjustment with rings at the base. Resetting the zero is done with a hex wrench.

            What else? Well, it’s 30mm tube, so you will have to buy those size rings and they will have to be quite high to clear that objective lens out front. Also the scope is huge. Especially with the sunshade installed, which is over 4 inches long itself. Almost 21 inches total.

            The frustration of not taking the shot on the tree rat prompted me to get out my Paul Watts Beeman R7, and shoot at my tomatoes that will never ripen this late in the season. Shooting at 25 yards, at cherry sized tomatoes, I couldn’t miss. I don’t hunt either, just target shooting.

            • Thanks guy! Any info is greatly appreciated. You’re talking to a guy who currently has a cheapo Daisy Powerline scope that when the magnification is used, you see double lines along on the horizontal cross-hairs. It’s horrible! I’m currently using this scope on my Gamo CF-X until I can find a great scope. I plan on eventually getting a Air Arms TX200 MkIII. This CF-X is my introduction to springer’s.

              Wow! Shooting a springer has been a real experience for me. So much to learn! My background is small-bore and precision air-rifle and pistol. I’ve only used FWB air guns, and Anschutz small-bore rifles. Using a springer takes me way back to my introduction with Remington’s. They require a lot of technique and require a lot of study, in my opinion. I’m having a ball with the CF-X, but this Daisy scope has got to go! I’m using minimal magnification, and it’s blurry, but somewhat usable. It’s very easy to lose alignment so you have to be extremely careful when aiming with this scope. I don’t remember having to be so careful with my old Redfield on my Anschutz rifles.

              Thanks again,
              Victor

              • Sounds like you might need to adjust the “eyepiece focus” on the powerline. Technically it is just for the reticular focus, but if it is way off it can affect the objective image.

              • Victor

                As luck would have it, I happen to have an Air Arms TX200MkIII. I cannot recommend the rifle more. It is absolutely beautiful, the fit and finish is breath-taking, and it is dead nuts accurate. From what I understand the CFX is a great rifle, and frequently compared to the TX due to similar power, the underlever and a great reputation for accuracy if you can get the trigger sorted out. It sounds to me like you have shot some fine rifles, and have a handle on things.

                Personally, I would not buy the aforementioned scope for the TX however. It is much too big and would cover up the breech opening–even without the sunshade installed.

                After looking through the eyepiece of a good scope, you will want to use that Daisy scope as a hammer.

                Happy shooting.

                • Slinging Lead,

                  Yes, the scope that you mentioned would be too long. I measured how it would likely mount, and at best it would end at the start of the breach, which could make it more of a chore to load. Also, considering that the CF-X is not a high end rifle, I wonder if there is something that would suffice, similar to the scope that you mentioned, between $100 and $150?

                  It isn’t that $250 is too much for a good scope, I just question whether it’s worth paying more for a scope than the rifle itself. If I were looking for a scope for a small-bore rifle, I wouldn’t mind paying $800.

                  However, if someone said that for an air-gun, there’s a particular scope that is an absolute must for FT competition, then again, I wouldn’t worry about the cost. I realize that I’m now making things seem more complicated. Sorry!

                  Thanks,
                  Victor

                  • Victor,
                    Temporarily, I would try to adjust the eyepiece focus of the Powerline scope you have; you can also adjust the objective on that scope, but I don’t think it is a procedure you would be comfortable with. Next, I would get a scope like the Leaper’s Golden Image 3-9x32AO scope, which should be nice on your CFX (double check the measurement). For very little money, it should fix the “alignment problem” (which is a matter of eye-relief), the focus problem (via adjustable objective), eliminate parallax error (when objective and eyepiece focus are set properly), and allow you to use higher magnifications than you can now. That is about all the scope I would put on a CFX, although you might consider the 6-24x50AO scope as an alternative if it will fit. Put the money you save into a fund to buy a rig like SL’s, which seems like a nice entry-level FT set up (Maurauder + big scope), or a TX and nice scope if you still want to use a springer for FT when the time comes.

      • (In the interest of saving vertical space, I’ll respond to your last comment here.)

        I spent MANY hours playing with the adjustments on the Powerline scope. I think what I currently have is as good as it’s going to get. Magnification works fine, but you can’t see the cross-hairs. Worse case, it will make a decent spotting scope within 60 feet.

        I agree that the lower-end leapers scope might be the way to go with my CF-X. I also installed the GRT-III trigger. So far, the Powerline scope is the weak link, so that’s got to change. I do plan on buying a TX in the not too distant future. When I do, I’ll definitely consider a higher-end scope. Again, my primary concern is having something that I could use in FT competition.

        In truth, I bought a couple of springer’s, just to see what they are all about. Now I understand all of the terminology that gets thrown around, like dieseling and “hold sensitive”. I’ve really learned to fully appreciate the accuracy testing that B.B., does. These guns require a lot more technique than the “finer” guns that I”ve shot before. I think that’s a good thing. I think that I’m going to learn quite a bit about shooting fundamentals with these springer’s.

        Thanks,
        Victor

        • Sorry, I couldn’t tell whether you had tried to adjust the Powerline — don’t waste any more time with it then. I have a scope that is similar to the Golden Image (a Tasco Golden Antler), and it has worked well on several rifles (both air and powder-powered); good for moa groups or better shooting at 50 yards if the rifle was, although the 9x max mag. is a little low for dedicated target work. One consideration is that Hunter Class FT tops out at 12x (I believe) for scope magnification, and that might be a good class to look at/start with, esp. with a springer. Maybe you could mock up your CFX for Hunter Class and try it out. I was almost tempted to consider Hunter Class FT before I got into local, active muzzleloading matches which perfectly suit my preference for shooting offhand and open-sighted. I would be more tempted by silhouette or smallbore type events for air rifles myself.

          I agree with you about the springers — more fun and educational because they are more challenging. I like to use them with open sights the most, though.

          • Well, at this point, I’m convinced that this Powerline scope was a waste of time on a springer. It looks almost exactly like the CenterPoint that came with my Crosman Quest 1000X, so I thought it would be stable. Wrong! You sight it in, and then find that it needs re-sighting.

            I too prefer open sights, but found the plastic sights on the CF-X to also not hold very well. They aren’t very rigid, nor precise, so I figured a scope is the way that you have to go.

            What I REALLY like are aperture sights, front and back, like on a target rifle. If I could find a way to rig an aperture sight on the front and back, I’d jump on it. In my small-bore days, I shot better with iron sights than with any sights. With my FWB 700 ALU, I can shoot pinwheels all day in the prone position.

            DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW TO ADD APERTURE SIGHTS TO A GAMO CF-X ?

            Adding a peep sight to the rear is easy because of the dovetail rail, but it’s the front that’s an issue. I wish someone made some kind of a dovetail adapter, or something so that I can add an aperture to the front.

  15. I’m still here and “off topic” again. I don’t think I’ve read anything on the forum about this so I will ask. Are CO2 cartridges recyclable, meaning what are they made of. Are they aluminum? May sound stupid but I have a bunch of spent cartridges that I’m not sure what to do with. I’ve just been turning them over and putting them back in the box to keep track.

    rikib

  16. Hi everyone,

    Well the show is over and we’re back in our room for the evening. Mac got a Daisy model 25 in the box from the Pyramyd AIR guys. He also got a spring tensioned for his Quackenbush .458 Long Action, so he can shoot pistol, bullets at reasonable velocities.

    He also got an 18-gun display carousel. He was pleased to meet all the blog readers who introduced themselves.

    I got a very old King BB gun, a .177 Sterling underlever, A Falke underlever, and a B25 breakbarrel in a bamboo stock.

    One of our readers picked up a vintage Beeman C1, and a Walther 1894 lever action rifle. I will be posting pictures of some readers next week in a report.

    Oh, and I came home with very little money!

    B.B.

    • Have a safe trip home.
      Glad you found some things you wanted.
      Let me guess…You probably saw some more things you wanted, but Edith did not give you enough allowance for the trip.

      twotalon

      • twotalon,

        I don’t give him any money except for travel expenses 🙂

        Tom used to get quite a generous annual airgun allowance every January, but he doesn’t need it anymore. He buys/trades for things that have greater value than what he trades or pays and then trades up or sells. It’s a very useful talent!

        Edith

    • and I found the HW/Beeman rifle that will satisfy my desire to try the ReKord trigger – an R9 Goldfinger combo that appears to be in like new condition. Only problem is it’s .20 cal and I forgot I don’t have any .20 cal pellets! Then after I bought the R9 I stumbled upon an FWB124, then an FWB300 at fair prices but cash was at a deficit now and I already had the rifle I wanted. Unfortunately for me, Pyramydair was there and they take credit cards so I bought an HW50S and then saw the Crosman Nitro that BB had demo’d.

      God help me if the wifey finds out I came home with 3 rifles including my RWS350 which no one was interested in!

      Kevin, BB, Mac, get home safe.

      Fred PRoNJ

      • FredPRoNJ:
        Congratulations or your HW/Beeman acquisitions.
        The HW50s is the same rifle as my HW99s over here.
        There are many advocates for the superb HW30,so I will just blow a trumpet for the 50s a little.
        A rock solid rifle,that captures the essence of fundamental air gunning.Especially un scoped.
        A veritable ‘Jack of all trades’ and great value for money.

        BB and Mac:
        As Caesar once said,
        “I came,I saw,I bought”
        Well I am sure he would have done,if he had gone to Roanoke 🙂
        DaveUK

  17. FrankB., I’m making progress. After the latest sharpening, my knives no longer slid over my forearm hairs. They didn’t really cut either, at least not without more pressure than I was willing to apply although I did get a few. I suppose the blades are at about the level of dull razor blades. Your incredibly clean-cutting knife is still the standard. How did you learn to do this anyway? Did you figure it out or were you taught?

    Matt61

    • Matt61,I have been working on this craft obsessively for many years.I hate that it still eludes you,mostly because I could teach you in a couple hours.PLEASE don’t put pressure on the blade to shave.The weight of the blade plus a gram or two for control is all it takes when you get there.
      Check out the Making of ceramic knives on Youtube asap! there’s a 10+ min. video from Kyoto Ceramic
      AKA Kyocera that is must see.I will pick up a “Yoshi” ceramic and see if I can get it to shave! If so,I’ll trade you for the dull one.I bought a used Benchmade Automatic Tanto Stryker that was very dull,and
      last night I got it shaving individual hairs.It was a Flea Mkt. find!

  18. Roanoke. Diary of an airgunner.

    From last Monday morning until Thursday morning I logged about 3,800 air miles. At noon on Thursday business was back under control and I knew I could go to Roanoke. No direct flight to Virginia from Colorado. Best option is to connect through Charlotte. Those airgunners with tables will start setting up early Friday morning and the buying, selling, trading will begin then. Best I can do is to get to the show around 2:30PM. Yuck. With layovers, 10 hours each way, need to be back at the airport in 14 hours to fly the first leg. Am I crazy? Make a decision kevin. Pulled the trigger.

    Although my friends use many colorful adjectives to describe me, ambivalent isn’t one of them. When my alarm clock went off at 2:00AM Friday morning I was ambivalent about this trip. After spending the week living in airports and out of a suitcase I could only wonder “Would this airgun show be worth it?” Drive to the airport with blurry eyes. The bar gets raised for my expectations of The 20th Annual International Airgun Exposition held at the Roanoke Civic Center.

    I walked into the Roanoke airgun show about 2:40PM on Friday. The room was packed with full tables of airguns and every imaginable airgun related item. In the back of the room was a big Pyramyd AIR banner. There were so many people that the room was humming.

    Although this is my first airgun only show, my strategy was the same as with the many firearm shows I’ve attended. Start on one side and slowly make your way across the room. Look especially close at boxes. Take time to unearth the piles.

    Almost exactly halfway through my initial search were the tables with Tom and Mac behind them. After introducing myself for the first time in person I was greeted by Tom like a long lost relative. What a prince of a fellow. True gentleman. After our pleasantries were exchanged it became immediately apparent why this blog is so successful. Tom is genuinely passionate about guns.

    His enthusiasm was contagious and re-energized by jet lagged body and mind. “Did you see the……? and over there are two like new……and you gotta take a look at the vintage……” His reputation as an enthusiastic and passionate airgunner is widespread. While we were talking several people walked up with classic airguns and gave Tom a first hand look. Fantastic airguns were walking to his table asking to be bought!

    Missed lunch on Friday since I was so enthralled with the show I couldn’t tear myself away. Spent the entire day there Saturday until I had to leave and catch my plane. Here’s my overview.

    There were 3 parts to this highly regarded airgun show. The airguns and airgun related parts you can buy, the guns that you can see and touch that are not for sale that belong in museums and the airgunners.

    Meeting so many people for the first time that I’ve communicated with online for years was very memorable. Fine folks like Fred Nemiroff (Fred PRofNJ), Earl “Mac” Macdonald, Mike Driskill, Jim in PGH, Paul Bishop, Wes Powers, Jan Kraner, Paul Watts, Jim Erler, etc. etc. Talking with these veteran airgunners about why they will never sell a certain gun but have sold many others, while holding one of their favorites, expanded my airgunning horizon.

    Seeing and holding airguns in person that I’ve only seen in pictures was an eye opener. There were 3 tables full of John Bowkett airguns. All but 2 were for sale! I saw two of Gary Barnes artistic airgun creations and one was for sale! Jan Kraner had a 3 tables full of his custom masterpieces! There was a Shamal for sale in good condition for $650.00! There was a walnut stocked HW55 NEW in the box complete with hang tags, match sights, the unopened bag containing all the sight inserts and original paperwork for sale! Mac had a Diana 75, complete with original sights and paperwork that was recently resealed in the original form fitted box priced very, very well! There was an LG55T (Tyrolean) that belonged to and was tuned by Marcelo Zapatero for $550 for crying out loud.

    Pyramyd AIR had 5-7 tables of guns with unreal prices. Across from Pyramyd Air’s display was a pile of crosman guns 12 feet wide and one foot deep. Paul Watts had 7-9 guns for sale (some sold before I arrived Friday afternoon). Standing at Paul Watts table gave you multiple options of his tuned guns, some in custom stocks with his hand checkering. Realize, Paul Watts hasn’t been willing to take in any airguns for tuning, from anyone, for months and even Paul didn’t know when he would take in new work. If you wanted a Watts tuned gun you had choices.

    Please don’t ask if I bought anything.

    kevin

    • Kevin,

      did you see the “show special” Watts had for $395? A tuned and buttoned HW55 was it or an R7? I can’t remember other than the tuning cost over $300, Paul said. I would have loved to buy it but I wanted a trade – either my Gamo Compact and cash or the RWS350. Watts wanted only cash, no guns. So what DID YOU BUY? I told – now it’s your turn.

      Fred PRoNJ

      • Fred,

        I’ve got a FWB 124, LGR Universal and HW55T on their way. The FWB 124 was part of a package deal so I’ll probably sell it soon after it arrives. I also bought a leupold 6.5-20 x 40 EFR with target turrets that was boosted by the leupold custom shop and while they were at they installed mil dots. At 25X this leupold focuses down to 10 meters. Great glass. Been looking for one of these since it takes almost a year for the custom shop to boost and add mil dots. Also found a burris compact 6X WITH AO (rare) on Fred Laidy’s table. I’ll mount the burris 6X on the HW55T. The leupold will replace a bushnell on a pcp.

        Yes I saw the HW30 that Paul Watts had. I debated about that HW50 that was advanced tuned and sat in that terrific maccari walnut stock with Pauls checkering. Had a tough time walking away from that one.

        kevin

        • I just sprained something trying to kick my own a**,well Kevin,now you can say “I told you so!”
          I am glad so many of you got to go……especially you BB! Many a prayer has been answered by your recovery.
          Kevin,while you were busy this past week I found a HW55 T that I long ago said I would offer you if I found one.I guess I get to keep this one now! 🙂

  19. B.B.,

    I realize that this is a purpose built gun designed for offhand shooting and weight helps immensely in that goal. Nonetheless, if you’re willing, in one of the later parts of this series, I’d be interested in knowing:

    1-How easily the barrel sleeve can be removed
    2-How easily the fore stock weight can be removed
    3-What the weight of the gun is without these accoutrement’s

    kevin

  21. I just picked up this very Walther. I assume the seals are gone. It doesn’t expel the pellet. Are there replacement seals for this model? Where can I buy them if there are? Thanks, GP

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