by B.B. Pelletier
Before I begin today, just a word about the upcoming Daisy Get Together in Michigan. It’s in Kalamazoo on Sunday, August 22. That’s a one-day show. Admission is $2 to see a room full of fine collectible BB guns. For a flyer and more information, contact Bill Duimstra (616-738-2425) or Wes Powers (517-423-4148).
Today, I’ll test the velocity of the new Webley Junior. These guns are supposed to be low-powered, so expect velocities in the 275 f.p.s.region.
One thing I know about older vintage airguns is that they have leather piston seals. The Webley pistols also have a leather breech seal connecting the air transfer port to the breech. It’s a hollow metal tube surrounded by leather that also needs to be oiled. So, the first order of business is to oil the seals.
Since I didn’t know how long the gun had gone since its last oiling, I intentionally overdid it. The oil gets dropped into the transfer port with the piston retracted in the cocked position. That took care of both the piston seal and the breech seal. Then, I waited two full days before firing.
Cocking effort
Despite being made for younger shooters, the Junior is still quite a handful to cock. I doubt most 12-year-olds have the strength. As I cocked the pistol, I felt some scraping that I didn’t like. I’ve not felt that before in a Webley pistol.
RWS Hobbys
The first pellets I tried were RWS Hobbys, but they didn’t come out of the barrel when shot. Not a good start. The Hobby fits the bore fairly tight, but it should still fire okay, so I began to wonder if something might be wrong.
JSB RS
I tried JSB Exact RS pellets next. They exited the bore at an average of 146 f.p.s., with a spread from 144 to 150 f.p.s. That’s definitely slow. They should hit at least 250 f.p.s. with ease. They fit the breech loosely, which I think helped them to shoot at all.
Eley Wasp
Next, I tried some vintage Eley Wasp pellets. These are what might have been shot in the gun when it was fairly new. They fit relatively loosely and averaged 94 f.p.s., with a spread from 81 to 97 f.p.s. Egad! That told me there’s something wrong inside the powerplant. Maybe, under the circumstances, most people would be upset that a new gun needs repairs. Not me. That gives me the justification to disassemble the pistol and let everyone see what’s inside. Then, we’ll see just what’s needed.
Gamo Match
Just to double-check my numbers, I shot a string of Gamo Match pellets that averaged 56 f.p.s. with a spread from 52 to 59 f.p.s. So, there was no longer any doubt that the powerplant needs attention and may even be disintegrating as I shoot.
What’s the next step?
What’s next is to disassemble the pistol and see what’s inside. The breech seal looks good at this point, but I’ve had to replace them before, too. What ever happens, I’ll show you what I do and where I get any parts that may be needed. Like my FWB 124, this will be a voyage of exploration for us. Accuracy testing will wait until the gun is shooting properly.
A beautiful pistol. I hope you are not going to be into mucho dinenro for it to fire properly.
rikib
Good morning rikib “yo no tengo mucho dinero “so i don t have to worry
Back to the yesterdays blog walking on street and carrying gun men someone would think here that i am starting a war then police would have they exercise on me 🙂
C-S wrote:
“Back to yesterdays blog, if I was walking down the street carrying a gun, someone would think that I was going to start a war. Then, the police would come and get their exercise on me.” This is so funny the way you put it, but true.
-CJr
I have noticed that in old pyramid air report for 34 many guys reported that they can t cooke the gun(34) first you can but then it goes harder and harder-it is not broken mainspring or something! This thingy that grab piston love to comes out of place,i had the same problem ,i will post you a picture (WHEN I FIND ONE)just dont take plastis safety out of place becouse this makes a problem
Guys i dont want to cook the gun (and now i am hogging the place)but i have made mistake- it is COKE (like coca cola-coke 🙂 ) the gun and not cooke the gun (it would be bad meal )God- it is confusing for me 🙂
cock, is the word you are looking for. To cock a gun. Cock also refers to a male chicken. You do well with English, just trying to help.
Gene
Gene thank you 😉
BB:
If ever an air pistol deserved a full internal overhaul it must be that Webley Junior.
A bit of a pain for yourself mind BB 🙁
On the subject of piston seals.
I removed my sliding compression chamber from the rifle and manually ran the piston in and out to check the compression.
When you compress a bicycle pump with your finger over the adaptor end,the air is not released till you remove your finger.
When I put my finger over the transfer port and pushed in the freshly greased piston there was no pressure build up like the bike pump.
Is that to be expected or should an air gun piston/seal have the same compression qualities of a bike pump?
Many thanks,
DaveUK
Dave,
The Diana piston depends on speed to compress air. The parachute lip will inflate when the piston goes so fast that the air cannot get past it fast enough. Then the parachute lip will be inflated and pushed against the compression chamber wall and then there will be compression.
B.B.
BB:
Sorry BB,my bad,I failed to tell you my rifle is a BAM B-3 not a Diana.
DaveUK
Dave,
Well, the parachute piston seal still works the same. The B3’s chamber isn’t as smooth as a Diana’s so velocity is lower, but the operating principals are the same. My B3-1 shoots pretty good, but I had an older B3 from the 1980s that was a real dog.
B.B.
Thank you B.B. usefull tip for me to know !Dave this tip is good even for your B-3 to know, it is not a pump so there should not be pressure like B.B. have just said it depends on speed 😉
BB:
Cheers,I have got the principle now.
As C-S said,a very handy thing to know.
My piston seal is most certainly in need of replacement.
It is worn down and impregnated with tiny flecks of metal shavings.
That is why last time I did a strip down I couldn’t identify what the seal was even made of.
It didn’t have the texture of rubber that’s for sure.
Following Derrick38’s lead,I stripped down,cleaned out and de burred the compression chamber and piston but the damage to the seal has already been done I am afraid.
For want of a replacement I had to put the seal back.
Would making a leather seal be a good alternative BB?
Cheers,
DaveUK
I kinda have what you need ,piston seal from my norconia air pistol i saw the picture and it looks the same like B-3 piston seal, after all it is made in China it is new but i understand why yours are broken they are stiff and well bad
C-S:
This is the thing,my piston seal is not like the one on the B-3 Derrick38 worked on.
My seal is screwed to the piston face.
A flat head screw through a counter sunk washer in the centre of the seal face screwed into the piston.
That is how mine is attached.
DaveUK
Dave try this http://www.kermitairgunclub.com/projects/b3guide/B-3%20guide.html
C-S:
Thanks mate,that seal is more like what I have got.
I can feel the urge to ‘dabble’ coming on again 🙂
DaveUK
No need to thank me we are here to help each other 😉 See it can be done ,now i think that you can use bicycle pump seal and rest is easy enjoy 😉
Note to myself buy B-3 😉
Dave try to google B-3 Guide it is not much but take a look 😉
Dave,
Yes, it’s easy to make a leather seal. Read this:
/blog/2007/12/how-to-make-a-leather-piston-seal/
B.B.
B.B.
Is this why some people claim that they need several warm up shots before their rifle starts shooting good?
I know that plastic shrinks and becomes less pliable when it gets cold. This would be a considerable disadvantage when hunting in cool or cold weather.
twotalon
twotalon,
Yes, almost every airgun needs to be warmed up with a shot or two. Even the PCPs.
B.B.
B.B.
Thanks.
I have noticed a long time ago that my Talon requires a shot after filling or after sitting overnight. My Talon SS does not seem to care.
I still need to see if my Talon needs a re-settling shot with the Condor tank.
Was re-settling shot the right term for it?
twotalon
twotalon,
Most people call it a settling shot, and it’s very common.
B.B.
C-S:
‘Buy or not to buy’
As far as the EU is concerned,it is still up to each individual member country to decide its own gun laws.
Joining the EU should not affect your current laws on owning guns.
Whether joining the EU full stop is a good idea,that is another matter.
DaveUK
Thank you Dave but our “current” laws are just that -current i fear 🙁
I am kidding what would i do with 48 i cant hunt so… 34 is just fine
C-S:
I always ask myself though how hard enforcing a limit on air guns must be.
Making a law is one thing but enforcing it another.
Without sending the gun for specialist tests how on the face of it could a Policeman tell the difference between a tuned up springer and a bog standard one?
The only thing that puts me off having a rifle above 12ftIb is that if I shot an intruder with a 19ftIb rifle,I would end up doing more Jail time than him 🙁
DaveUK
Dave buy a dog for intruders problem you dont have to shoot them 🙂 ! I have viciuos english shorthaired cat(specie like a garfield 🙂 )she is perfect housekeeper couse she newer go outside the house fence and generally she behaves like a dog 🙂
Wacky Wayne,
What brand or type(?) of coconut oil do you use to anoint your pellets?
-AlanL
AlanL,
Our household buys coconut oil and other coconut products from a company called “Tropical Traditions”. We buy the coconut oil in 5 gal pails! You can find them online. Their quality is tops and prices are the best, a good company to do business with.
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/virgin_coconut_oil.htm
Like I said we use it for everything from cooking to body care. It’s very healthy for you. JUST DO IT!!! And now, I use it for my pellets too.
Enjoy,
Wacky Wayne,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Thank Wayne! I’ll be trying it for sure. Am interested to see what some fried eggs will taste like. I usually alternate between butter and olive oil as the mood strikes. Coconut oil will be a different twist. Now if only I can get my daughters to give me a foot massage and back rub with it…
-AlanL
Wayne,
Just placed my order- that nutty system of theirs asked me for your User ID when I selected “Referred by a Friend” as the source of my being a new customer. I put in your name and their system rejected it of course. So I sent them a message telling them that you referred me. Hope you get a coupon out of it or whatever. Anyway, they have a 10% off coupon today only. Yay!
-AlanL
AlanL,
That’s cause my mother-in-law does the ordering.
Wacky Wayne
Hi BB!
I own a Webley Junior bought at a flea market a couple of years ago. It is, I think, an older model (1936-37). The handle doesn’t have rounded corners and the grip plates are stamped sheet metal (I have a jpeg file of a similar one if you want to see it).
At first it was not working as the screw holding the piston seal was broken and the seal and screw head were flipped around inside the compression chamber. I got some blueprint from Webley (an assembly cutout and dimensioned drawing for a few parts: screw, seals, cup washer). I machined some new parts and re-assembled it. (Note: Chambers also has a exploded diagram online).
I tested it with the new seals and parts and it was weak. I discovered also that sometime pellets will stay in the barrel. Pushing them deeper in the barrel will help. I found that recycled pellets (already shot) works well in my Webley Junior. I am using Crosman Premier Wadcutter.
I recently bought a Chrony and was able to check it. My Webley Junior has an average velocity of 148 fps.
Pistol Pete
Pete,
In part 1 of this blog I linked to an earlier blog that had your pistol in it. The Book I mentioned in part 1 has a schematic of every Webley pistol, so I’m in good shape.
B.B.
Hope no one minds, but just had to share the link below. Check out the box –
nice reminder that Robert Law was around way before Doc Beeman…
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=177519074
Wayne – thats a lot of oil!
B.B., you were bang on in one of your assertions describing group size and the number of shots.
On Saturday I had the Slavia and my XS-B9 out at the range on the 30 yard line. There was a 20mph wind blowing with the occasional gust to 35. My 5 shot groups were hovering around 4″.
When I changed to 1 shot groups they tightened considerably 😉
CSD,
You have reached the third level of enlightenment. Have a lotus blossom.
B.B.
CSD,
When I find no hole in the paper at all after a shot, I guess I have reached the ultimate level of enlightenment– true nirvana. Happens to me all the time. I just have to remember to feel blissful…
-AlanL
Booohooo :'( the “in stock” dates for the marauder pistol has been pushed to November.
I was planning a trip to the US in september to get it… oh well I’ll have to get something else.
Anyone seen the new addition in the benjamin nitro piston line on crosman’s web site ?
https://www.crosman.com/airguns/rifles/break-barrel/BT5M22SNP
it’s rated at a max velocity of 495 fps, think it may be coming to Canada 😉 (airguns are considered firearms when they shoot over 500fps here) ?
Any idea how they achieve the lower pellet speed ? Do they change the transfer port or put a “weaker” piston or one with less gas in it or a valve to let some of the air out ??
If the only difference is the piston a quick fix would be to simply switch it for a US spec one, not that I would do such a thing of course as it would be very illegal to do so ! But you know… if someone less respectfull of the laws wanted to I bet it could easily be done ;).
J-F
Hi, Folks!
I’m new to the blog and I’m using it on BB’s suggestion. I own a Diana Panther Striker Combo in .177, a Shadow 1K in .177, and a Shadow Supreme in .22. I am a disabled shooter with CP, and I am thinking about purchasing another breakbarrel springer in .22. Even though I shoot sitting down from a rest, overall weight of the rig (gun, mount, and scope) is a bit of an issue for me. The weight of my Panther Combo is about as much as I want to heft accurately at this point. Any suggestions as to what my next air gun in .22 should be? Budget would be around $250 shipped. Thanks.
Walton
You have a few rifles so far. What do you plan on doing with this new one exactly? You will get better suggestions if we know what you want to do. Target shooting? Small game hunting? Plinking? Joining me in my quest to put cockroaches on the endangered species list, using airguns?
Also, how big are you, and will anyone else be using it?
Hi, Slinging!
Thanks for the info. I am 5′ 8″ and 240 pounds. I appreciate all of the suggestions that I have received about PCP airguns, but I want to keep it simple–I would like to use the gun as a springer for hunting, with squirrels being its largest game and 800 fps being optimum. I may just wait until I can buy another Diana 34 Striker Combo and then have it tuned. By the way, I am intrigued by your “quest” to put a dent in the cockroach population using airguns. What is your preferred “roach rifle?”
Walton,
$250.00 will just get you another average Springer, I would suggest perhaps waiting until an HW50S in .22
caliber will fit in your budget. It will be well worth the extra funds and time.
If you prefer not to wait, maybe try this:
/product/hammerli-850-airmagnum?m=913
You could have it converted to bulk fill to save money on CO2 and it would be unlike anything you currently have.
It is light weight and if you shrink wrap the muzzle brake it will also be neighbor friendly.
Slinging,
Great probing questions – are you a sales guy??
Walton,
springers are fairly heavy as rifles go in the air rifle realm. What I suggest for you is save up your
money until you can spend around $400. This will get you a PCP Discovery with air pump.
It’s fairly light, about 5.2 pounds and if the pumping proves too taxing for you, you can use a
SCUBA tank which is filled at any diving shop or paintball gun store.
Check it out here:
/product/benjamin-discovery-rifle-pump?m=1534#Description
Fred PRoNJ
making this short modem crapped out i will be off line for a few days sending this via cell phone i will be back he he
rikib
rikiB – catch some sleep but you will be missed here 😉
maybe i will even catch up on some sleep!
rikib
I have one of the first ones. Serial Number 25g – small british g one the end. ALl original – with original grips – just want to chat with others who have the same. Cant send pic on this so email me
I have a Webley Says,
Congratulations on your Webley. I’m going to ask you to re-post your request on the current blog cause there are just a few of us checking the old blogs for new comments. B.B. writes a blog each day, Mon-Fri, where off topic questions are always welcome. Hope to see your post here /blog//
Bruce