by B.B. Pelletier
Update on Tom: The hospital didn’t get around to doing the procedures mentioned in yesterday’s update…because people who were in critical condition were ahead of him. They hope to do everything today. Tom looks and feels MUCH better, and we think the hospital is on the right track. Without going into too much detail, they’re working with his body’s natural immune system and have seriously altered the medications and protocols of the previous hospital.
Todays blog comes from the August 2001 issue of The Airgun Letter. I remember when Umarex first brought out so many CO2 pistols that looked like firearms. People wanted them but didn’t really know what to do with them. Popping paper targets got kind of boring after a while. These days, there are lots more CO2 guns, but we haven’t seen a big growth in targets. So, this article is still pertinent.
The action pistols made by Umarex and other manufacturers are fun because they’re repeaters. Most are very realistic to look at and hold, so the shooter gets a tactile treat when he has one in hand. But people get confused when it comes to shooting these new guns, as in, “What do I shoot AT?” They often try to make target pistols out of them, and that’s a role for which these airguns are poorly suited.
The accuracy of the average action pistol is about 1-1/8″ at 10 meters–and that’s at their best. At their worst, accuracy is more on the order of 2-1/2″ to 3″. That’s pretty far from target accuracy when there are guns like the Beeman P1 and Gamo Compact floating around. Either one of them and many others like them can hit a dime with every shot at 10 meters.
But, the action pistols can do something that very few of the target guns can do. They can shoot rapidly, and many can mount optical sights. Set up in this way, they become the airgun equivalents of the firearms they copy–true action pistols.
Velocity is the same for all these guns–360-390 f.p.s., give or take. You can expect 50-75 shots, depending on how fast you pull the trigger, because CO2 chills the gun as it flows through and a cold gun uses more gas.
Juice cans with a string fastened through their bottoms can be stood on a flat board 15 feet away–each can standing over a hole in the board through which the string passes. Paint them black for contrast and have at ’em! The pellet should topple the cans and a pull on the combined strings at the shooting line should bring them each back to standing over their holes once more (you’ll need some ground clearance under the board for the strings).
Gamo has made some spinner targets that are ideal for action pellet pistols. So, if you don’t want to make your own, these are perfect. The nice thing is that they’re not just spinners. You can tie balloons on them and one even has a paper target frame.
How does it shoot under pressure?
One thing I noticed as I shot magazine after magazine in preparation for this report is that the more you shoot, the better you get. Better means faster. I shot almost one full tin of RWS Hobby pellets–that’s a full 500 rounds in just one session. And there was more than one session! I went through dozens of CO2 cartridges gathering data and experience.
I’m guessing there are plenty of people who buy a CO2 pistol, shoot it enough to exhaust a CO2 cartridge and then put it away because popping paper targets loses its luster after 75 rounds. Unique targets–homemade or otherwise–will heighten the enjoyment and make you more accurate, which is what I discovered.
What types of targets do you shoot at?
I used to practice hip shooting. Start with soup cans tossed out on a bare patch of ground. I usually held the gun down at my side, then threw it up to about hip level and fired. When hits become too easy, move farther back or, try arial shooting. Toss the can in the air. When hitting cans become easy, reduce the target size. Just make sure you do this in a safe place and wear shooting glasses.
Additionally I use my BB repeater as a live-fire trainer. I set up scenarios in my home and, while still using paper targets, I'm practicing not only shot placement but drawing from concealment, room clearing drills, and general firearm safety. (Please refer to the Makarov review last march)
Edith, BB: pleased to read that Tom is improving in his new environment.
Edith…
I hope Tom's treatment is going to work this time.
For plinking, I usually use improvised natural targets that require no cleanup afterwards. Right now dandelions and rocks in bare fields are "in season".
Later will come crabapples and buckhorns.When I was still growing a garden I always liked to hunt the big fat tomato hornworms. They really pop when they get blasted.
twotalon
Hi Edith and BB.
Good to hear BB is feeling better.
Obviously taking each day at a time though.
On the subject of CO2 pistols.
After the handgun ban in Britain there was still a great desire to fire such guns.
Sales of CO2 and Brocock air cartridge pistols went through the roof.
Although the Co2 guns looked good externaly they were of course totaly different in their operation to the real thing.
The Brococks on the other hand looked,loaded and fired the same way as a real firearm.
In terms of power they were as good as a comprable springer pistol or rifle within the UK limit.
The air cartridge system was utilised to make some cracking Air pistols and rifles.
Winchester underleavers,and bolt action hunting rifles with a 5 round box mag and some beautiful Remington style western revolvers.
Myself I had a 5 shot S&W style snub nosed detective special.
It was a .38 size cartridge that you filled with air using a hand pump but it fired a .22 pellet which was fitted in the nose cone.
The concept of the air cartridge was started by Saxby&Palmer I think.
I had one of their revolvers in the mid 80s.
S&B also converted and sold Air cartridge Lee Enfield MK4 bolt action service rifles back then.
I am kicking myself now I never bought one:(
The government clamped down on Brocock guns and now you are required to have an FAC to own one.
75,000 units were sold and only 2000 have since been registered:)
The rebelion has begun lol.
DaveUK
The 'air cartridge' always sorta appealed to me because of the realism. I recently bought an airsoft revolver that uses cartridges because it mimics the operation of my Colt .38, and if wifey can reliably load and fire the airsoft gun she can load and fire the .38.
But the cartridges in this thing are holders only, power comes from a CO2 cartridge. It's a simpler way of doing the cartridge thing without the hassle of having to pump up each individual cartridge. To date I've only seen revolvers and the occassional bolt-action rifle use a system like this… it'd be really neat in a semi-auto blowback pistol! But I'm not holding my breath – if an airsoft mag had to hold cartridges instead of just BB's that would seriously drop the mag capacity. And gamers wouldn't like that (or the possibility of losing their cartridges in the woods)
Of course, a cartridge-as-a-pellet-holder should make it easier to make a very realistic pellet CO2semi-auto repeater.
The big bugaboo for pellet repeaters has always been the feed mechanism. Inline feeders with a shuttle like the Crosman 600, Mendoza RM2000 and Shadowmatic are prone to sealing issues and are pellet fussy – if it's too short, too long, or doesn't have the right nose shape it ain't gonna work or the pellets will get mangled. Compartmentalized feeders like the rotary mags in so many pistols or the inline feeder in the IZH61 are sometimes prone to indexing problems, and might have problems with long pellets.
But if a pellet was snuggled well into the noze of a faux 9mm, .380, or .45 cartridge – these problems go away. Length wouldn't matter (!), there are no indexing issues, and the feed mechanism would never even come in contact with the delicate pellet.
There is an Action Shooting event in the U. K. – "Iron Plate Action Shooting". Given the cost of ammunition these days, it's a wonder that it hasn't become more widespread here in the U.S.A.
Vince:
Brocock did make an 'Automatic' style pistol with a smaller Cartridge but you had to rack the slide for each shot,which I thought then defeated the object of the BACS system.
I liked the rapid fire aspect of the revolver you see.
As you say,at about $7 a cartridge a guy will be looking at where the ejected cartridge falls as much as where the pellet has hit.
Not a satisfactory situation for practical shooting.
As a target rifle or pistol for home or range though they are pretty good.
At the time the Saxby and Palmer Orion six revolver was seen as one of the best target air pistols on the market.
Plus putting about eight pumps into each cartridge with the handcharger is as good exercise as a 'BullWorker':)
DaveUK
Vince:
I was thinking about what you said.
The key to a practical repeating air rifle that was not a BB gun has got to be the ammo.
A normal pellet has at least three jobs to do,
Create a seal,be stabilised in flight and do the business when it hits the target.
We used to have a pellet called the 'Sussex Sabo'which worked on the same principle as a tank round.
A plastic leaf cup which fell away after leaving the muzzle letting the hard bullet shaped pellet it contained to carry on.
If the plastic cup outer on a Sabo round was slightly damaged by an auto feed mechanism it should not in theory effect the stability in flight of the contained pellet once the plastic outer has fallen away.
Could be sealing issues of course but that could be worth the trade for a repeating airgun maybe.
DaveUK
Vince,
You should make it! Your million dollar idea. I'm sure you have the goods to make it happen. Anyway, it would be a fun project. Sort of reminds me of how the Gamo Viper works with the .22 cal pellet insert rather than the shot. Now, just to make it into a repeater…
Glad Tom is feeling better. For someone as active as he, sitting in a hospital for two weeks must be proverbial hell.
I'll second everything said in the blog.
I have a Gamo Compact. I compete in an informal local group as well as Airgun Arena's postal match and have one the top prize coupons a number of times. On a good night I can put the pellet in the 10 ring 4 out of 5 times…(as mentioned, the size of a dime) offhand at 10m.
A little over a year ago I purchased the Umarex Walther CP99 because of it's looks. After a couple of weeks it did very nearly end up in the closet. Try as I might, 2" groups were the norm…and of course I was (il)logically comparing these results to the Gamo.
But last summer I hooked up with an IPSC shooter I know. He took me out to his acerage where he practices with a Umarex Colt, using the standard IPSC targets (a big piece of cardboard with 6 torso shaped figures) that he places in various places around the yard. Then we'd have a run through the course, which he times…the idea being to put 2 shots in each torso, allowing 12 seconds (as I recall) to place the full 12 shots in each figure.
Suddenly this gun became great fun.
As well it is a great trainer for a real hi-stress emergency situation. I'm pretty sure that most people breaking into your home don't hold as still as a 10m target!!
CowBoyStar Dad
Must be off soon but while I think of it.
The plastic outer of the round could be made into a shape that is purely condusive for an auto feed mechanism.
Cylindrical and slightly scooped at both ends maybe.
The bullet inside could also have a nose on each end so as not to have to worry which way round the Sabo is loaded into the mag.
Right I'm off for a lie down now lol.
DaveUK
Ok, I'm showing my ignorance here but I have a question. First a disclosure: I hate cowbirds. I hate everything about them. I hate the way they look, I hate that awful song they make that sounds like the shriek of the grim reaper to me. I also hate the way the males collect a harem and then strut about and abuse the females they have collected around them. Most of all, I hate the way they take over my bluebird nests and kill the hatchlings. Cowbirds are evil. Now on to my question. I am tormented by a male cowbird that has decided that the tallest tree in MY yard is the best one to sit atop and call out for females. The sound of him singing is driving me bonkers! I'm sure you can see this one coming, but – I want to shoot him! Problem is that I never see him on the ground. Every day up in that tree singing his awful song, but never on the ground where I can safely pick him off. My question is, can I safely pick him off (RWS 94 177) of the tree if my angle is relatively steep? Will this be unsafe for the homes in the background? My gut tells me it's not a good idea, but then I hear him calling again and he's gotta go.
rikib,
You said: "found another snake skin in the backyard this evening….this is two skins within two months"
The way I understand it, a snake sheds its skin because it is out growing it. You'd better hurry up and nail that sucker before it gets too big for conventional firearms.
-Chuck
Matt61
Re M14A1 Rifles, Apr 27 Blog
Personally, I liked the M14 a lot. But, I started shooting hi-power at about age 12.
The M14 is a handful in full auto, but devastating to the poor bast@%ds on the biz end of the barrel.
Most guys did not like it due to weight vs the M16. And in my era, the 16 was considered "new and sexy" so most boots wanted to play with it from day one.
The Natl. Match versions were (and are) 1000 yard shooters with young eyes and steady hands. The M16 of my era was a spray and pray in auto fir but not too bad in semi-auto mode, Still no equal in accuracy and knock down to the M14.
Brian in Idaho shot
Fused,
I hate to rain on your parade, but you probably can't take a shot at the cowbird in the tree and be sure that the pellet will land back in your yard. The ballistics just aren't favorable. At a steep angle, the pellet could easily travel several hundred yards before coming back to Earth should you miss. Were it me, I wouldn't do it.
BTW, is it legal to hunt cowbirds? It isn't here in Tennessee. That's something to consider also.
Sorry,
Bobby
Fused: If the distance to occupied areas is far enough,then maybe? But, if your gut tells you it is a bad idea, then I would pay attention. Personally, I allow at least 400 yards dead space behind any intended target without a solid backstop, should I miss. A very steep angle could mitigate that distance. You should always figure on the worst case senario. You can take shots with an air gun that you wouldn't dare take with a .22 RF, but there is still a limit.Robert
Fused…
That sounds more like a grack than a cowbird.
Either way both are protected here (Ohio) and nearly everywhere else.
Also NOT safe to shoot in a residential area or legal either in most places within city limits.
twotalon
rikib,
Re snakes and dispacthing there of, Mossburg sells a .410 pump shotgun with a pistol grip for around $300.00. Seems to me that it might be just what you're looking for to punch that snake's ticket.
I am thinking about one for my primary house gun. Would no longer have the worry of over penetration and haveing a pistol or M1 carbine round pay a neighboor a visit.
If the Mossburg isn't within the budget, check out the North American or Harrison and Richards single shot shotguns.
Another thought for your consideration is a center fire pistol stoked with a load of shot shells.
Mr B.
Not protected here, I just checked. I have no idea why it would be anywhere. Anyway, I guess I knew the answer before I asked. Just wanted to vent.
Thanks for the advice.
Fused
Cowbirds are evil. Your strong urge to kill them is a trick. They are trying to make you switch to the darkside of the force! But in all seriousness…
They drop their eggs in other bird's nests which crowd out the host birds young to death. If the mother of the nest rejects the cowbird egg, the cowbird mother is likely to destroy the host bird's eggs. Cowbirds do this to hundreds of species of birds. How are they a protected species anywhere? Baffling.
How tall is the tree? And for the heck of it, what kind of tree is it?
He is obviously taunting you, Fused. I think you should shoot him, and let the dead cowbirds fall where they may. Is I recall, BBs advice is to holdover for the horizontal distance to the target, not vertical or angular distance. I don't know if extreme angles change this or not.
BTW I am totally serious about this, unless it is against federal law, in which case I was only kidding.
Keep on fusing
Fused…
You need to move to Idaho!
We can shoot anywhere that is "safe" on un-incorporated county land. If it is unsafe, they will take you to jail. That's the catch but it works, Act dumb or unsafe, go to jail.
In the City I live in, you can shoot airgun in your own yard as long as you control the pellet within your own yard (laminated 2 x 4 backstops at my place)
From what you have said in your situation, I imagine a typical, city dwelling with neighbors, etc. So I would not recommend shooting that Grackel, Cowbird or as we would call them here… dead bird.
Brian in Idaho
Fused
On second thought, shooting him in a neighborhood might be irresponsible. Just chop down the tree.
On the subject of range, does anybody know what the true maximum range of a .22 cal 21 grain H&N Baracuda and a 14.3 grain Crosman Premier pellet shot from an RWS 350 is?
Thanks,
-AlanL
Shroker (Ghost),
I'm sorry, but I had to delete your comment, as you provided a link to a competing airgun retailer. I did that because this blog is part of Pyramyd Air's website. The Daisy Shatterblast targets you mentioned are also available from Pyramyd AIR.
Edith
Mr B.
I've been considering the Mossberg 410 pistolgrip cruiser or a 45/410 pistol (easier to carry around doing yard work). I'm pretty sure I have more than one as first skin found was larger than second. Also feel fairly sure that they maybe be nesting under my storage shed. I put a 6" raised floor in about 2 years ago, so they are probably under there.
rikib
AlanL
You would have to know the MV of each pellet then run it through a ballistics program to get something close to the right answer.
twotalon
No worries. I would've linked from PA if I had come across it!.
I had meant to link a photo and not the item itself.
My mistake. : )
AlanL
Would there not be too many variables in order to determine an actual true maximum range?
rikib
AlanL,
B.B.'s write up of the RWS 350 showed velocities of 870 fps for the RWS Superpoint and 675 fps for the Beeman Kodiak pellets. The Barracuda is actually the same as the Kodiak, so we're good to go with that one. The weights are close enough for the Crosman Premiers to the RWS Superpoints, that we should be able to them as reasonale analog.
IIRC, 30 degrees gives the longest range, so I'll now go to chairguna nd see what it says. Drumroll …
– Crosman Premier: max range of 411 yards at 21 degrees of inclination
– Beeman Kodiak: max range of 553 yards at 27 degrees of inclination
That should get you started 🙂 BTW, the terminal ballistics for each are on the order of 1 ft-lb of energy at maximum range.
AlanL
Chairgun tells me that my 48 throws them this far…
Exact 784fps … 569yds
Kodiak 613fps …518yds
Just a bit less than my Talon will toss a Kodiak..700yds. (Condor valve)
twotalon
Fused,
As an alternative, if the tree is not too high, you could work to piss him off enough to leave using airsoft. It would probably take many sessions, but my sister has done it with birds near her pool.
Alan in MI
BobbyNations/TwoTalon,
Thanks! I was afraid of that. Yikes– that pushes them clear across the golf course! And 1 ft-lb concentrated on such a small surface area still provides quite a sting, I suspect. I simply cannot afford to miss…
Rikib,
Indeed, many factors affect the ballistics; that's why I said "maximum" (which implies under ideal conditions- zero wind, best elevation, etc.) so as to cover all bases.
Thanks again, guys.
-AlanL
Fused,
I don't know if I'm way off with this suggestion…but predator birds often like easy targets. With this fool sitting in the top of the tree, I would hope an owl or other type of predator bird would find this a tasty little meal.
When we lived in Maryland, we had a dove that just sat on our back fence. He came there every day. One day, while watching him mind his own business, a hawk swooped down & took him away.
Does anyone know if there's a way to attract hawks & owls? On the other hand, I don't even know if these birds of prey would want to eat a cowbird.
Edith
AlanL
You can't afford to miss something that will definitely stop a pellet.
Pest birds and such will not slow down a pellet by much if it's from a fairly fast gun.
They bouce off the ground too.
twotalon
Edith,
We have many, many hawks in the neighborhood. In fact, I finally figured out that it was them who took care of my squirrel problem. I had been wondering where all of the squirrels had gone and kept hearing the hawks calling, but never put the two together. Then yesterday while walking the dogs, I was watching a squirrel dig up an acorn and silently, out of no where swoop – no more squirrel. It was beautiful to watch, so graceful and fast and absolutely silent. Poor thing had no idea what hit it. Cowbirds they seem to leave alone unfortunately.
Fused,
At our DIFTA airgun club in Maryland, one of the airgun club's founders had a serious squirrel infestation in his garden. He used a live trap to get the squirrels & transferred them to the wooded forest that we used for field target. He thought it would be ideal because he saw no other squirrels and thought they'd be happy having the area to themselves. After a few weeks, he noticed that there weren't any squirrels anymore. As it turns out, the eagles were eating them!
Edith
An illness is like a journey into a far country; it sifts all one's experience and removes it to a point so remote that it appears like a vision.
Sholem Asch
Tom it's been awhile since you've been able to shoot, maybe it appears as a vision. Don't let us down we're counting on you being back soon!
We are all here shouting out our prayers and best wishes for a quick and speedy recovery!
rikib
Edith,
What/where is the DIFTA gun club? As a northern Virginia resident with no gun club and no matches within miles and miles on my side of the River, I could be very interested.
Thanks,
pete
Don't know much about cowbirds. They are probably around here with all the other birds, but kept at bay. We have hawks, crows, blue jays, cardinals, purple martins, humming birds, etc even bats and the squirrels. I guess for the most part nature takes it's course. For some reason lately our husky has taken to killing birds (she's not yet a year old). The cats will bring in either vovles or the occasional bird.
I guess none of that was of any use to you as nature is not taking care of your problem. Sounds as though you live in the city. Does the city have any suggestions on what you can legally do?
rikib
Pete,
DIFTA is the airgun club in Damascus, Maryland. They're part of the Izaak Walton League. Shooters have come from such far-flung places as Tennessee, Kentucky, Florida, New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Virginia & Canada. And that's just when Tom and I were part of the club. I'm sure they attract people from lots of other places these days.
On the above link, click on the Adult Air Rifle Program and you'll see links to directions from whatever your location.
Edith
On the subject of targets.
For novelty value I use a tipped over metal bucket and place old coffee mugs inside.
The bucket catches pellets but also ceramic debri.
With a heavy .22 prometheus steel headed pellet you want to see them Mugs go pop.
Also saves on the washing up liquid:)
DaveUK
Could someone tell me where I can find B/C's for pellets that are not on chairgun's pellet data base, or how to update the database with newer data. Specifically I'm looking for Predator Polymags in .177 & .22. Thanks in advance for anyone that can help.
David H.
DaveUK
Tell me more about the .22 prometheus steel headed pellet. I'm reading some good reviews and some really bad reviews. They seem to work well with the 2240 which is what I shoot.
rikib
David,
Ask on here. Cannot link another dealers site to PA's site.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/
DaveUK
Don't worry about giving me any info on the .22 prometheus steel headed pellet, I've read enough to keep me away from them.
rikib
rikib:
The Prometheus .22 I have found in our 12ft pound rifles including my old Logun PCP are not as accurate as other pellets.
Not massivly off target for hunting though.
On harder surfaces like wood,metal and MDF the prometheus was very good in comparison to a lead pellet which tended to flatten out or bounce off.
On softer surfaces the lead pellets were equaly as good or slightly better for penetration.
Strange.Could have been me or the rifle.
This is only a guess but I think the Prometheus when hitting a rat for instance will tumble rather than flatten out or distort inside the rats body.
That is of course pure speculation.
I have shot dozens of rats but have yet to carry out an autopsy:)
No exit wounds though with the Prometheus pellets so far.
At £6 for 200 I use them sparingly.
Especialy in my cheap rifle.
2.20am best off to bed I think.
DaveUK
Rikib:
Too late I have done my in depth report with 'Expert' analysis.lol
Goodnight:)
Fused,
here's what you do. Just like we do in Jersey when we have to thin the deer herd out, put some bait out that the Cowbird likes. Sit inside in an upper window and when the b%%$#@#d lands, plug him!
By the way, what's a cowbird?
Fred PRoNJ
DaveUK
I know you've signed off for the night so maybe you'll see this in the a.m., the main negative reviews I read other than accuracy where about the debris (plastic) left behind in the barrel. Have you ever experienced this?
rikib
Fred,
A cowbird is usually found around cows eating the many, many insects that cows attract. As a result they are constantly on the move, which leaves them no time to build nests and raise their young, so they lay their eggs in the nests of other birds along the way for them to raise.
The Brown-Headed Cowbird is the one that you usually will see here in America. The other 4 species of cowbirds generally range throughout South America for the most part.
Bobby
It doesn't sound so bad when you say it like that… What you didn't say is that the baby cowbirds are larger than the other chicks in the nest so eat all of the food that the original mother bird brings for her own chicks and they starve to death. Or, the big cowbird chicks end up pushing the other chicks out of the nest if they have survived. Nasty little buggers. Cowbirds and House Sparrows are believed to be responsible for the dwindling bluebird population in the country. The House Sparrows are our fault, they were a foreign species introduced here. The cowbirds are a problem now because they have recently changed their migratory behavior. Since there are relatively fewer herds of cattle (or bison) for them to follow, they now stay in a closer regional area and target neighborhood areas because of the open space kind of like pastures. Anyway, that's probably more information than you wanted to know.
I not only use all the brains that I have, but all that I can borrow.
Woodrow Wilson
Sounded fitting for this blog site. We use what we know, and gather other information from various experts here.
Good night or Good morning as the case may be.
rikib
Fused,
I've never met a bird that wasn't a sucker for grass seed and fresh topsoil. They are drawn to that dark dirt like magnets. Mix some of each up and sprinkle it on the ground someplace you don't mind a few blades of grass popping up if it rains. It might take a few days before your buddy gets up the gumption to go exploring, but once he does, he'll keep coming back. Wait a couple more days for him to get complacent, and then, like Fred said, find yourself a good window seat…
– Orin
rikib:
I myself have not be aware of any debri left in the barrel from the Prometheus pellets.
As I said though I do shoot them sparingly and usualy interspersed with shooting conventional lead pellets at the same time.
So any debri may have been removed as a result.
Orin:
You are right,I am a lousy Poker player but not bad at Monopoly:)