by B.B. Pelletier
I promised this report to John, who has waited patiently for it. The Walther Talon Magnum is a breakbarrel single-shot pellet rifle made by Hatsan for Umarex. It comes with a black synthetic stock, scope and mounts. There are open sights and the scope is not mounted on the rifle when you open the box, but the scope-mounting video will help you with that simple task.
The rifle comes only in .177 caliber, but for those wanting a .22 or .25, the Walther Falcon Hunter is the same rifle with a different stock. The rifle also has open sights for those who want them. They’re a fiberoptic bead in front and a fully adjustable rear notch. The muzzle is enclosed in a synthetic brake that holds the front sight base.
The metal is finished a deep black, and the polish is better than matte. So, there won’t be any reflections to disturb those covert hunting shots.
A big, heavy rifle
This is a very large air rifle. The photos don’t convey that, but compared to this 49″ airgun, a standard Winchester model 70 centerfire feels like a carbine. It’s also decidedly muzzle-heavy. I think the .177 caliber has a lot to do with that, because most of the weight is in the barrel. The rifle isn’t heavy for a magnum springer at 8.2 lbs., but the muzzle-heaviness will make many shooters think it is.
The power is rated at 1,200 f.p.s. for standard lead pellets and 1,400 for non-lead lighweights. I’ll test that for you. The barrel is very stiff to open, reminding me of a Webley Patriot. You have to slap the muzzle to break it open. The rifle cocks with 50 lbs. of effort, though that could decrease a little with break-in. The bottom line here is that this is a large, heavy and powerful air rifle. Don’t get it for plinking because you aren’t going to want to shoot it more than 50 shots at any one time. Hunters will find this is a great way to nail quarry with a minimum cost.
Scope
With the rifle comes a 3-9×32 scope in rings, so it’s ready to mount. Just attach the ring bases to the proprietary scope base on the rifle and slide everything back till it touches the scope stop plate. Tighten the two screws (one on each ring base) and you’re done. The optics seem bright enough for general hunting and the eyepiece is adjustable for focus. Each ring’s cap has two screws, so I’ll watch to see if they can hold the scope under recoil. The scope base looks similar to a Picatinny because of the cross slots cut into it, but it’s really a standard 11mm dovetail. The slots seem to have no purpose for any scope mounts we know about.
Another reason this Talon Magnum reminds me of the Falcon Hunter is that the stock adjusts for length of pull in the same way–by installing or removing up to three shim spacers between the stock and the rubber recoil pad. The rifle comes with the shims out, and the length of pull is still 15″ so most of us won’t be needing them. For those who ask, the stock sounds hollow.
Trigger and safety
The two-stage trigger is long and stiff, and the owner’s manual doesn’t list any adjustments. On the box it’s listed as a single-stage trigger, but the one I’m testing most assuredly is not. There’s a single screw on the plastic trigger blade, but I doubt it affects the pull. It may adjust the first stage travel, only. I’ll weigh the trigger-pull during the velocity testing, but right now it feels like at least 7 lbs. The safety engages automatically on cocking and can be reset at any time with the rifle cocked or not. Because of the safety’s central location, the rifle can be considered ambidextrous, even though the cheekrest is only on the left side of the butt.
Well, that’s my initial assessment. It’s a big gun and a near-copy of the Walther Falcon Hunter but in .177 caliber. The velocity should be right up there with the other superguns if it comes near the advertised numbers.
BB, that scope looks an AWFUL lot like the Winchester/Daisy Powerline 3-9×32 that came on the Hatsan-built Powerline 1000 (and the Winchester-branded variants). I’ve seen that scope (with the same rings) retail anywhere from $28 – $40. It would be funny if a cheap scope like this one actually works well and holds up on a monster gun like the Talon!
About those mounts – clamping force on the rail is gonna be mediocre at best, but with a solid scope stop to the rear I’m guessing this shouldn’t be an issue – am I correct about that? I believe the tube clamps won’t be an issue because (I think) the factory uses a mild adhesive to help secure the tube.
Lastly – looking at the safety and trigger the resemblence to the old Powerline is unmistakable, and I suspect that if you pop the action out of the stock we’d see the same mechanisms. The trigger on my Powerline underwent an amazing transformation that still has me scratching my head – over 5 lbs to start, but a TINY bit of smoothing and some moly paste on the interface between the intermediate lever and sear brought the effort down to less than 2. I was worried about sear safety, but so far no sign of ‘self-firing’ behavior.
When I did some 60 yard tests recently my Powerline – shooting Crosman Premiers at over 1000fps – bested every other gun I’ve got, including my ’48 and Panther (although not by much – certainly within my margin of error).
Vince,
You are correct that the positive scope stop plate eliminates the worry of the rings walking.
I won’t be able to get into this gun like you did, so my evaluation will be more like the guy who just buys it and shoots it. We’ll see how she does. I do know that the things I learned from the Falcon Hunter will probably translate to this rifle.
B.B.
Weather ?..I keep my rifles in the shed so when I use them they are at the outside temps..during the cold winter will shooting a rifle at these temps affect the main spring when its very cold..
Thanks,Tom
Good morning B.B.,
The thing I learned from the Falcon Hunter, was it’s very hard to shoot accurate for me… the most recoil of any of the springers I’ve bought. And like you say 50lbs of cocking effort is way to much for anything but hunting, unless your built like a grizzly bear. Which is sort of like our millwright, Rick, who bought mine as I was sending it back, he loves it…. To each his own!!
My biggest concern is the speed, I would want to tone it down to under 950fps, by using heavy pellets. Can you try some .177 cal Eunjin 16 grain, and see if that does it.. Not that I will buy one, but people who do should think about unstable flight that can happen when a pellet goes over 1,000fps, right?
Vince,
How is your powerline for recoil and cocking effort?
Wayne.
Ashland Air Rifle Range
BB is there a link to “how to measure the cocking force of your rifle”??? How do you do it? I want to measure my RX-1. From SavageSam
Can you do a review of he Beeman Heavy target in .22?
Wayne,
I will test this rifle with heavy pellets.
B.B.
SavageSam,
Here is the link you want:
/blog/2007/6/airgun-test-and-measurement-equipment/
B.B.
toveysnake,
The Beeman Heavy Target appears to me an AR 1000. I tested that for Compasseco and it turned out to be wonderful. Powerful and accurate without a lot of vibration. Vince has written a lot about the AR 1000 on this blog, so I hope he will chime in on this answer.
It could be several months before I get to this rifle, so I’m trying to hgelp speed things for you.
B.B.
OT…okay I’m pumped.
Just got notice from Canada Post that my Walther PPK is here.
Thanks to those who responded to my questions the other day…you helped me decide on this for a fun entry into handguns.
The boys can hardly wait.
I’ve rented a James Bond flick (Thunderball), will pick up the gun from the post office on the way home from work…a good night in store.
CowboyDad
Wayne,
Here are the DROZD 2 {BLACKBIRD} accuracy results at 10 yards using Avanti steel bbs, as well as related impressions…
The type of trigger that I prefer for target shooting is light (8-12 ozs.) and smooth, so that I do feel anything different at all as the gun is just about to fire. The Drozd trigger is electronic rather than mechanical, and as such I find it compares well to the specially modified trigger on my Theoben Rapid (which co$t$ over 7X more) and is a better trigger than on any of the other airguns I own. It seems obvious to me that mechanical mechanisms are being replaced by electronic mechanisms in all sorts of areas as the 2oth century makes way for the 21st century, and I have little doubt that within a few years all the best triggers will be electronic.
In large part because of the trigger, shooting in single shot mode and firing 6 shots in 1-2 seconds produces reliable (viz., rarely greater than), impressive groups of 1 3/4″ and sometimes groups of 1.”
Shooting 10 shots in 2-3 seconds was an eagerly awaited challenge for this gun’s CO2 system, as the previous incarnation of the Drozd (of which I own 3, one modified to shoot quietly**, one modified to shoot super accurately**, and one modified to shoot with a 1,000 shot tank**) out of the box was limited by its single, 12 gram CO2 cartridge – the gun’s accuracy after 4-6 rapid shots would become affected for the remainder of that string of shots. As such, the “machine gun” quality was limited.
The Blackbird, on the other hand, uses 88 gram or (3) 12 gram CO2 cartridges, and thus…
A string of 10 shots fired single action in 2-3 seconds produced groups of 2.” These groups are better described by saying that typically there was one flyer that, when eliminated, produced a 9 shot group of 1 3/4.”
This is a significant improvement over the previous Drozd, which by the 6th rapid single fire shot would be spreading to 3.”
Now, the results in full auto mode, shooting 6 shots in a little over 1/2 second, produce groups of 2-3.” Shooting 6 shots in under a second like this clearly affects the accuracy far more than shooting 10 shots in 2-3 seconds. It worsens it by about 1 inch.
Shooting in full auto mode in two rapid bursts of 3 shots in 1/3 second each produces reliable groups of 2″ for the resulting 6 shots. Thus, this is clearly a more reliably accurate method of producing 6 rapid shots (under 3/4 second) than firing all 6 in full auto at once.
I will continue to work on getting these air rifles to accept lead balls, as the previous generation Drozds did, as lead balls (8 grain) are significantly more accurate than steel ball (5 grain), they sink deeper into the squirrel’s head, and they are not a risk for bouncing back and blinding my children (as I mentioned, the dogs are smart enough to leave the area).
A significant part, I believe, in the killing power of these machine guns on 3 shot mode, is the “shock” to the nervous system that the rodent receives. At 10 yards using lead balls, 2 or 3 of the initial volley hit the head/brain area. The squirrel or rat does not move at that time, which allows the next 3 shot volley to also hit 2 or 3 in the head. At that point, the suirrel (or rat) is dead. No movement, no twitch, no dance. All over in under 1 second. Very humane, and very challenging to get 10 yards from the squirrel (not so the rats, who are not as cagey).
The speed of death is faster than any .22 air rifle that I have used, and is comparable to what occurs when using the .25 Condor at medium or high power. But that is using lead balls, which I have not been able to get the Blackbirds to accept. The steel balls penetrate…well, if there is sufficient reader interest, then I will report on penetration test results within a few days.
I am very interested if anybody reading this blog has experienced similar ammunition (projectile?) problems as I have with this bb machine gun.
**These are available for trade.
– Dr. G.
Dear BB,
Thank you for your very informative blogs. I eagerly await them daily.
Just a reminder… please don’t forget part 2 of your blog on “Lubrication of Air Guns”.
Thanks again,
Stingray
Cowboy Dad,
You’re doing it up right! Good for you.
B.B.
Dr.G.,
Wow! A guest blog in a comment. With a few pictures, you’re an author.
How about it?
B.B.
Stingray,
I did forget – entirely, as in brain wipe!
So, Friday for part 2.
I have to start keeping better track of these things. Fortunately I embedded a message to myself in part one, so I know what comes next.
Thanks,
B.B.
Dr.G,
Thanks for your report. It was very well done, I agree with B.B., make it a blog!
If you want to trade for some springers, I’d be into it, I have for sale or trade the following:
Beeman RS1 .177 3-9x40AO leapers
Beeman RS2 .22 3-9x40AO leapers
Avenger 1100 .177 3-9x50AO leapers
QB25 .22 cal
RWS94 .177 3-9x50AO leapers
RWS93 .177 cal
RWS92 .177 3-9x40AO leapers
Call me 541-552-1441 or email
wayne.burns@naturalyards.com
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne,
It is free to list and sell your rifles here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/79574/
Kind of a pain to post pictures, but you can just e-mail them to interested parties. Most of the items I post sell in a few hours, so be careful of listing too much at once. You can get overwhelmed with e-mails.
Maybe try a couple of the rifles to see if you like it. You do need to include a price. You will also have to join first, which is painless.
Volvo
Volvo,
Thanks,
I’ll give it a try.
I’m glad to here it works well.
BTW, I’m loving the FX Timberwolf, it’s a little slow loading the two pellets, but I’m getting use to it.. The only thing I miss is the 10 shot mag on the Air Arms S310 and S410, but at the price (traded the AR6 straight across) I fine with it. It is very accurate, as good as the S410 and Condor, the best two I’ve got for accuracy.. 1/4″ to 3/8″- 5 shot groups at 20 yards (outside to outside). It’s not as loud as the BSA lonestar without the moderator that are on the way for both of them, along with one for my Discovery, from Anthony. It’s a little less loud than the Discovery in .22 cal.
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Hey Wayne/BB
Whats the difference between the Beeman RS1, RS2, RS3 and does the new target tapered bull barrel make any difference. IF ANYONE HAS ANY EXPERIENCE WITH LEE ENFIELDS, tell me what to look for. What model is the best. If I can’t seem to get any, I might look into a marlin guide gun in 3030.
Shadow express dude
BB, I took a look at the ‘Beeman Heavy Target’ and you’re right, it is almost certainly an AR1000 variant.
Toveysnake, as BB suggested this can be a very decent rifle. It is built by Shanghai in China, the same outfit that has produces the ultra-cheap B2 breakbarrels and B3 underlevers. That said, I’ll also mention that the AR1000 is the only Shanghai product I’ve tried that I deemed worth keeping.
The AR1000 is a very close clone of the GS1000 that Norica made for Beeman. It has been badged and sold as a Beeman SS1000, Hammerli Titan, Walther Force 1000, TF89, and of course as the AR1000 (among others).
It has a gen-u-wine 2 stage trigger (not a fake like the Gamo) that is good out of the box, or very good with a little work. There are 3 adjustment screws… spring tension and the 2 stages. You can even make the trigger into a single stage or three-stage, if you’re so inclined. My personal preference is a long 1st stage (to maximize sear engagement for safety), which will also properly reset if you release the trigger halfway through a pull. And with a second stage pull of about 2 lbs. Very easy to do with this trigger.
Of all the examples I’ve owned (5) none of them has had a twangy or harsh firing cycle – unless the stock screws came loose. I have seen issues both with screws loosening, and the action creeping forward in the stock even when the screws aren’t loose. The gun has a large powerplant and generates a fair jolt in the forward direction which can elongate the front holes. On the two that I have now I replaced the front screws with allen-head bolts, and the heads themselves bump into the front of the screw head recesses, this seems to stop the forward movement.
Power-wise they are very respectable, and get surprisingly close to RWS48/52/54 velocities. A strong-running AR1000 might very well out-power a weakish ’48.
Accuracy can be a different matter. The .177 Walther Force 1000 I’ve got now is very decent out to 60 yards, the .22 cal TF89 I have isn’t quite as good but still acceptable. Then again, maybe I just haven’t found the best pellet for it. Closer in they are both fine. The first AR1000 I bought, though, had a bum barrel – it would never shoot worth a darn. So QC in that respect can be an issue.
Another possible problem area is the piston seal – some of them are rather loose-fitting and can cause inconsistent velocities.
Not sure what the difference is between the Heavy and the cheaper RS2 except that the ‘heavy’ seems, well, heavier (bull barrel?). The gun is fairly hefty as it is, I don’t know that I would pay extra for more weight.
One other thing to consider – the Hammerli Razor is the Spanish Norica-built original that the Chinese AR1000 copies. You might wanna consider that one – it’s not much more and you get open sights to boot.
But if you go for the Chinese one, the bottom line is this, I guess – buy from a retailer that has a good customer satisfaction policy.
Wayne,
Glad to hear you like the FX. I usually by pass the two shot feature and load my Webley as a single shot. Still quicker than a break barrel. I do believe that aftermarket conversions are available for a magazine, but they are not self indexing.
I still have not shot the Discovery yet. As you suspected, it may not be long lived with me. I have contemplated just listing it for sale as new in box and keeping my eyes open for another deal on a used PCP.
Volvo
Shadow Express dude,
The only difference I see is that the RS1 is .177 cal. and the RS2 is .22 cal. At least that is what I have, one of each and they look the same, other than the cal. But I don’t know very much about them, other than how they shoot.. which is pretty darn good for the price… With what Vince said, It could be I just lucked out with the two I got… they are both very smooth shooters for the price and power…
Wayne
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne
bb,
Why would a .22 caliber air rifle, like the discovery or a model 34, be more desired than a .22 rimfire. i understand the noise differnce but for both hunting and target reasons why are some of the differences and what makes an air rifle better. for the price of a lot of these air riles like the 2 i mentioned i could buy a ruger 10/22 and have a lot of money left over.
george
Shadow express dude,
Get the best No. 4 SMLE you can afford. A good one will be around $300-350. Get it in .303 caliber – not .308 which will kick the hell out of you.
The gun can look bad on the outside and be perfect inside. I have one like that. It went through a Factory Thorough Repair (overhaul) and looks like a bad patchwork quilt on the outside, but it’s a perfect rifle otherwise.
Make sure the headspace is checked by a gunsmith. SMLEs have interchangeable bolt heads so the headspace can be adjusted in the field.
As for the differences between those Beeman rifles, Vince, can you help me?
B.B.
Volvo,
I just did my first post, and I couldn't see how or where to add photos… it was easy to sign up, thanks..
With the price one can find used PCPs for, I think you got it right about the Discovery…
After using the Air Arms S410 with the broken mag for a month, (it was an easy fix, I shouldn't have waited so long), self indexing is not necessary for me.. I'll do a search and see what I find.. if anyone out there knows, give me a link..
thanks,
Wayne,
AARR&R
B.B.
The weight of the B30 is fine for me and even adds to stability, but the Walther rifle sounds like a bit much.
Dr. G. how interesting about the lethality of machine guns. I recall from somewhere that their effect goes beyond the number of hits because of the shock effect of multiple strikes on the nervous system.
All, how about this? During the momentous events of last night while the most powerful nation in history was making an orderly change of leaders, someone who was described as a hunter was telling me that a .357 magnum handgun is plenty of protection against surprise bear attacks….
Wayne, did you ever get your elk? I have another type of hunt planned. After shooting off a day’s allotment of ammo, I will tuck into game sausages from Cabela’s. Anyone have experience with these?
Matt61
George,
You have asked the million-dollar question. If you can shoot a .22 rimfire, why mess around with an airgun. Well, cost to shoot for a big one. The pellet gunj is far less expensive.
Accuracy for another. A good PCP will shoot rings around your 10/22 (or both of mine) until about a thousand dollars is spent on the rimfire. Then it can keep up but not do better.
An airgun is on the order of 5 to 10 times safer than a rimfire. It depends on the airgun and the rimfire, but solid bullets carry 1.5 miles as opposed to a quarter-mile.
For power of course the rimfire wins hands-down. And for convenience with a repeater is is unparalleled.
But in the end people make their choices based on personal likes.
B.B.
Wayne (s410happy),
I know you don’t need the money but I like you to allow me to make an observation. USUALLY, if you sell a scope and rifle separately you maximize the value. Good luck selling your items on the yellow.
Thanks again for all your contributions. Very informative.
kevin
You got it, BB. Adequate power for chicken killers and garden pests combined with a maximum range that keeps my pellets from falling onto my neighbors’s places plus a soft-spokenness that keeps me from alarming them makes my Walther Falcon Hunter edition a much better choice for keeping pests away than my 10/22.
What we have here in the Walther Talon Magnum is the same Hatsan action used on their current products and what Webley inflicted upon the US market with the “revamped” Patriot.
The trigger group on this rifle is probably as abominable as the Patriot was and I feel I will be vindicated by BB’s findings.
In all we have another cheap and cheerful howitzer from Turkey in a caliber unsuited to its proclaimed power level. I personally would recommend getting an RWS product, better made for not much more money.
B.B.
Any opinion on the Marlin 60 .22? I keep hearing rave reviews about it.
Matt61
Matt,
I just got rid of my Marlin 60 last month. It worked well but it isn’t as accurate as a 10/22 or any other semiauto .22 I own, which is a few.
Maybe some are better than others. It is a reliable gun.
B.B.
Matt61,
If you want a semi-auto .22, get the Ruger 10/22 – then stock up on 25 or even 50 shot mags.
Volvo
B.B
sorry for the duplicate info, you type faster than me. Volvo
Kevin,
Thanks, I'll try that with the others.. My intent was to offer the combo for less than the rifle by itself sells new…thinking a good deal is necessary in this economy…
Matt61,
Last year, I bought 2 of the marlin 60 .22lr. semi-auto.. Randy and I have loads of fun shooting them.. not one jamb up yet.. When my shoulder was sore from shooting the Win .270, I switched to the marlin 60 and got 2" groups at 100 yards from the FT position.. And that's on a quick fire.. You can mount a scope very easy, I've got leapers 4-16×50 AO on my two. And I only paid $165 ea. new for them. Go for it!!!
Wayne,
AARR&R
Hello to everyone:
Is it convenient to buy the Air Force Condor Full Package Combo?? I am willing to pay all of that money to get it… but are all of those things really necessary… This would be my first PCP… and i really want a good one… So what do you think people????? By the way, what is a good case for this rifle and all its parts (spare tanks, etc.)??? Thank you very much!!!
Cheers,
Jony
Volvo & B.B. & Matt61
We were all typing at the same time. I don't have the Ruger 10/22, so listen to B.B. and Volvo.. I guess I better try the 10/22 sometime. They do cost a little more I think.
Wayne
AARR&R
Jony,
I think you do not need the laser, the open sights or the accessory bar. Everything else is very useful, but only if you intend filling the gun with BOTH a scuba tank AND a hand pump. If not, drop either the refill clamp for the scuba tank or the hand pump.
The rest of the stuff you will eventually want, I think. The scope is first-class and the spare tank with standard air valve allows you to use the 12-inch barrel and get some adjustment. The bipod and tri-rail are both good items. The AirForce rings are cheap enough that they are a no-brainer.
That’s my thinking.
B.B.
Wayne,
My standard 10/22 was only a little more accurate than my Marlin model 60 when I tested it for Shotgun News. But when I put on a Butler bull barrel, the rifle shined. And I had a trigger job, and better mag release and bold holdopen latch put on. All good changes
The one waste of time was putting a target chamber and crown on the standard barrel, which isn’t that accurate. But it is my silenced barrel.
Get one ASAP. It is the foundation of a wonderful gun.
B.B.
Jony,
I went for the Condor combo, and ended up not getting eye relief, (can't get my eye lined up to see through the scope) with the 4-16×50 Air Force scope that came with it. It's very close even now with the leapers 6-24×50 and high rings. But it works now that B.B. told me about laying the gun on a slight angle with the pistol grip out at the bottom… You have to put the scope on to allow for this (crosshairs), but it's fine now..
This gun is so powerful, I wanted a more powerful scope to go with the added distance (75 yards) you can take game or shoot targets..
Get a bloop tube, because it's also very loud on med to high power… unless noise is not an issue for you, down under.. (I'm guessing with the "Cheers")..
An extra tank is needed if you plan a long hunting trip, that will need more than 40 shots or so, away from a filling source..
This is as accurate as my other PCPs 1/2" at 50 yards on a very good day.. and more powerful than any I have.. (now that my AR6 is traded off).. It's hard to beat for the price.. The other choice might be a used BSA Lonestar, or FX Timberwolf, or Evanix Renegade, or Air Arms S410, if you want a wood stock and no chance of a problem with eye relief…
Wayne,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
Wayne,
AARR&R
B.B.
Thanks, I'll put the Ruger 10/22 on my short list.. Anyone want to trade air rifles for one already tricked out….. B.B.?
Wayne,
AARR&R
Wayne,
Possibly.
B.B.
Hm, I’m glad to hear about reliability for the Marlin 60. That quality is on my mind. But odd to hear about the erratic accuracy. That was supposed to be a selling point along with it being billed as the highest-selling .22 of all time. And need I say that the price is right….
As for the 10/22, I understand that you need to put in a lot of modification for that rifle to excel, either by getting a $1000 Clark Custom gun or doing a lot of individual changes yourself.
Anyway, on the airgun vs. rimfire question, I’m so far on the side of airguns that this is all theoretical for the time being.
Matt61
Wayne,Matt,BB,Volvo:
Marlin 60 is not that bad and just about as accurate as any other off-the-shelf semi, I suspect, but the real question is why have a semi at all. I got mine at a young age, when commonsense was not a priority, and I was tired of all the single shots in the family. With almost 30 years of personal history, I will never part with my 60 and use it often, but I often wish that good solid detachable-magazine bolt actions had been as popular (in my crowd). The 10/22 is better supported by the aftermarket, and the recent 60’s I’ve seen can’t hold a candle to the one I have: stubby barrels, fake faux walnut, etc. The Savage bolt action rimfires with heavy barrels and solid stocks look worth checking out, as do the CZ’s. I’m sure there are others.
I think I’m just getting old and crusty:).
As always, thanks B.B. and Wayne for your honest recommendations… By the way, Wayne, why did you recommended putting a Bloop Tube to the Condor for its noise??? If I am not mistaken: “it is a hollow tube fixed to the end of a rifle barrel, which increases the sight radius between the rear and front sight. Better picture clarity of target” (I Googled it… jajajaj)
Thank You very much again…
Cheers,
Jony
P.S.: I was also planning on upgrading to a higher power/magnification scope…
bb thanks for the blog. Btw you rimfire guys should look at savage arms… They make some fine rimfire rifles. Anyone have one?
Thanks
John
To Jony,BB,etc…Happy to report that I just ordered the Condor complete package yesterday!!today I got a phone call from Lisa at PYRAMYD.she called to tell me a few of the items from the package are on back order but they offered to ship most of the order now…then she told me their tech would test the condor to make sure that I would recieve everything I needed to at least shoot it w/12″ barrel.that is great because this is my first PCP as well as a huge investment.It would kill me to have recieved the package containing an unshootable combination of parts!!!I will keep you all “posted” I can’t wait…FrankB
Wayne,
Although I am not interested in any of the trades offered, thank you for posting them. I am only looking for a TX200; 10-20 tins of .25 H&N h.p.; or a single pump pneumatic that can shoot 1/8" groups at 10 yards.
B.B.,
You are welcome to add photos and any words of your own, and then credit dual authorship, as I have no interest in learning how to do photos of the other computer related things necessary to write a blog report. You may remember that this is just what you wanted to do a few months back when I wrote a detailed report on Condor "power creep" when the power dial is on low, along with some strings of velocity data.
Unfortunately, I think that there are as few readers of this blog interested in the bb machine guns as there are interested in CO2 Condor accuracy and chrony data.
– Dr. G.
BB, after looking at the descriptions on pyramyd’s site it appears that the RS1 has the non-adjustable direct sear trigger mechanism that spoils the Hammerli Storm. The powerplant might be comparable.
The RS2 is not .22 only, it is available in both calibers. The RS3appears to be an RS2 with a silver finish.
This is just my best guess, mind you…
Dr. G.
The Daisy 953 is supposed to be very accurate, and it wouldn’t be much of an investment if you wanted to try it.
Rimfire shooters, the Savage Mk II bolt-actions get very good reports as do the CZs and are on my fantasy list, but I would rather plow the costs into JSB Exacts and RWS Hobby pellets.
Matt61
I have a Marlin model 25 bolt action .22 Rimfire that Marlin doesn’t make any more. I found it at a flea market for $110 with a cheap scope on it. I cleaned the barrel and put a 3-9×40 Bushnell Trophy on it. It will shoot sub 1inch groups at 50 yards all day long. If the newer Marlins can do the same thing I would get one of them.
jeff
Matt#61,
Thank you for the suggestion. It is my understanding that the 953 trigger cannot be adjusted below a pound, and it is not in any way considered “smooth” or “crisp.” I have considered many bb rifles, and it seems that the trigger is the weak link in all of them, even the accurate ones.
Speaking of accuracy, if I were to shoot a bb rifle and could not use lead balls, my second choice would definitely be Avanti Expensives.
These Avanti bbs are amazingly consistent in their weights, with the first 20 that I weighed all within .04 grains of their intended weight, and most at the same weight, which is all within 1%!! All other bbs that I weighed are only within .18 grains of their intended weight when weighing such a sample size. This is a significant difference when dealing with weights around 5.30 grains, and can make different bbs weigh almost 4% off.
However, I do not think it is the consistent weight that makes them more accurate, as I have written before that weighing regular bbs or lead balls and sorting them did not significantly improve the Drozd accuracy. I believe the quality of the smooth roundness of the Avanti bbs can be seen under visual magnification, and I think that is what makes them accurate.
– Dr. G.
Matt,
If its just the price, I would be surprised if one of the sporter barrel Mark II’s or a similar Marlin bolt was that much higher than a Model 60 and it should be potentially more accurate, not to mention more conducive to accurate shooting, possibly with an Accutrigger. The MSRP is substantially higher than what you’ll normally pay, especially if you watch the seasonal sales. Or buy used (not my favorite, but it works for some).
I’ve gotten good accuracy out of my M60 (roughly MOA under perfect conditions), but its mainly luck: a lot of accurate ammo choices will not cycle on some semi’s — it seems to vary from gun to gun as well as different models. And you don’t have the choice to use, e.g., shorts or CB’s — all (preferably) high velocity LR, all the time. My M60 cycles cheap high velocity LR ammo reliably and accurately enough for general use as long as the action is cleaned regularly and lubricated correctly, but I’ve seen several M60’s that wouldn’t from the start, and heard the same complaints from Ruger owners. All that for the ability to fire quickly (which I hardly ever use…anymore:)). A quick, silently loaded follow-up shot can be useful for hunting, but otherwise it is pretty frivolous.
Bg farmer,
While semi-autos are not needed for hunting, they are fun plinkers. The 10/22 was my first firearm that was not a single shot, and also the first pd for with my own $$.
To be honest, I have not shot mine in quite a few years – but it sounds like Matt has never “walked” a tin can with 22lr ammo.
Needless to say, no fancy mods are needed to just blast away.
Volvo
Volvo,
“Walking the can” is favorite thing to do with the Marlin 60, although I never thought to call it that…and for $165, it does it extremely well, even when the can gets out to 100 yards.. hey it’s just plain fun…
Thanks for a great name for it,
Wayne
Volvo,
My main consideration for the 60 was hunting (a long time ago), I think because the Field & Stream writers were always talking about a follow-up shot (or 16). Most squirrels, however, are hit on the first shot or gone. I have often wondered if many of the F&S writers in those days ever left their apartments. Horrendous recoil in 12G and 30-06 was another thing they often railed against, but it was also pure hooey I think; they were and are trying to sell new and different equipment.
"Walking the Can" — good one; we always called it "making the can dance". It is fun.
BB,
I was offered a secondhand FWB124D for $400. We chronoed it to only 715 fps, and there is slight twang upon release of the trigger. There are four quarter-sized scratches on the upper stock.
Is the price reasonable? I thought 124Ds shoot at over 800fps. Apparently this needs a serious tune.
I need your comments please.
Dave
dave – walk the other way, and dont look back.
“. . . cheap and cheerful howitzer”
Cool description Vulcanator.
BB, can I ask you to speculate on what this rifle would be like with a 20 caliber barrel on it once you get a chance to shoot it?
–WFH the CCH guy
Dave,
That 124D needs a tuneup. A better price for it would be $325.
B.B.
WFH Guy,
I can speculate, but are you really still using .20 caliber? I ask because the Falcon Hunter comes in .22, which is just a better way to go in my opinion.
B.B.
Ton,
I remember the Falcon Hunter with gas spring. It may be a few more months.
B.B.
Dr. G.,
Because of the time it takes to gather photos for a gun I don’t have, this is too much work to make it worthwhile. The idea of a guest blog is to give me some time off to do other things, as well as giving you readers a voice on this blog.
Thanks,
B.B.
Vince,
Thanks for providing that info on the Beeman rifles. I hope that answers that reader’s question.
B.B.
I was just reading a SportsmansGuide flier and they have a Walther Talon Magnum in .22.
I thought at first that it was a misprint, but its also on their internet site.
Maybe Pyramyd will offer it in .22 in the future?
–Davee1
Davee1,
The Umarex USA (the importer) website only shows .177 caliber for the Talon Magnum. The Falcon Hunter is the .22 caliber version of the gun.
Of course anything is possible. I do realize that this rifle is $25 cheaper than the Falcon Hunter.
B.B.
I’m looking for an excusse ^W^Wa reason to buy another air rifle, BB, and I don’t have a 20. Yet. I would like a springer rather than a pneumatic for the sake of not alarming my neighbors when I fire it.
–WFH the CCH guy
WFH,
I understand. Just so you know that this rifle is a real loud springer.
B.B.
With all that swept volume and that stout mainspring it would just about have to bark with that low an expansion ratio. I can shoot my 22 Walther Falcon Hunter in the basement and the sound of the pellet striking the trap is louder than the sound of the rifle’s discharge — but only just. Somehow I don’t think that would apply to the Walther Talon Magnum.
WFH the CCH guy
B.B.,
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that either you or someone else said that the power adjustment wheel on an AirForce gun becomes useless once the gun is switched to CO2 power such as a 12oz paintball bottle. Am I correct? Thanks.
Alan
Alan,
Yes. The power wheel doesn’t work very well on CO2.
B.B.
I apologize in advance that the questions I am going to pose are off the current topic.
I have enjoyed the history and background on the FWB 124 posted on the blog. I recently put mine back into shape after 30 years – replacing the piston seal and spring.
The first question I have relates to the Williams peep sight that I bought from Beeman when I got the 124. I can not sight it in at 10 meters with the stock foresight on the rifle and have been tempted to make my own foresight. Before I invest the time, I wondered if anyone had any experience with the Williams peep sight at 10 meters and could suggest a replacement foresight that would fit the foresight barrel grooves without significant modification and has interchangeable inserts?
Question 2. I have seen pictures on the WEB of a FWB 124 user’s manual which I believe I once had. After 30 years and several moves around the country the booklet has been lost. Any suggestions about how I could get a replacement or print a copy from an online source would be approciated.
Okay, you missed the current blog by a week, but this is much closer. Ask question 2 on this forum:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/405945/
Today’s blog is accessed from the home page of Pyramyd Air
https://www.pyramydair.com
There are blue tabs near the top of the page and the blog tab is the next to the one on the right.
B.B.