by Tom Gaylord, The Godfather of Airguns™
Writing as B.B. Pelletier
Announcement: Pyramyd Air’s social network sites and this blog will celebrate “National Ask a Stupid Question Day” on Sunday, September 28, 2014. The blog will have a special short posting on that day for those who want to participate for the hours indicated. Of course, the rest of the blog is still available for those who don’t want to participate. See the times and locations on Pyramyd Air’s site.
Legends P.08 BB pistol with blowback.
This report covers:
• The toggle action works just like the firearm
• Description of the pistol
• Why not a Luger?
• Operation
• Velocity
• Field-stripping
• Imagine all the possibilities!
• Evaluation so far
Let’s be honest. You’re reading this report, hoping to learn just one thing — if the Legends blowback CO2 BB pistol is as realistic as the ads seem to indicate. You’re interested in it — but not because it’s a BB pistol, but because there’s a slim chance that $120 will buy you a real German Luger. And you want me to tell you whether that is true or not.
You hope that $120 dollars in 2014 will buy you the kind of perfection that made the German P08 pistol an icon at the turn of the 20th century. You don’t see how that’s possible, but you hope that 21st century manufacturing has some inexpensive ways of duplicating the precision of early 20th century craftsmanship.
The toggle action works just like the firearm
Okay — details. For starters, Umarex tells you that this pistol has realistic blowback, which they emphasize by showing you a picture of the action in full recoil, with the upper receiver slid back on the action and the toggle opened completely. Then, someone asks whether this means the toggle works like the firearm! I know why they asked that. Because we’ve been told for the past 50 years that the toggle action on the Luger pistol is extremely difficult to machine and all parts have to be made precisely if the gun’s going to work.
And it does! This BB pistol cycles exactly like the firearm it copies, and I own 2 of the firearms for comparison. One of them is a genuine P08 made at the royal arsenal in Erfurt, Germany in 1917. This BB pistol functions exactly like that firearm. The only differences are that the firearm is louder, it shoots a heavier projectile and it recoils harder when it fires. Other than that, both handguns work the same.
The difference is that instead of each pistol requiring 243 labor-intensive machining steps by journeyman machinists, the Legends P.08 CO2 gun has parts made from precision molds. Yes, the precision is there, but it’s only done once, and then a lot of pistols are made. No, the Legends P.08 BB pistol can’t last through two world wars and 60 years of civilian duty, but neither did a lot of P08 firearms.
Description of the pistol
This pistol closely resembles a “black widow” Luger that has black plastic grip panels (on the firearm, as well as on this BB pistol) and blued parts like the trigger blade. It weighs 1 lb., 14.125 oz. on my scale, where my 1917 Erfurt pistol weighs 1 lb., 14.625 oz. So, it’s a half-ounce lighter than the firearm when both are empty and have their magazines installed. Except for the wooden grips on my firearm, which are very thin, I have difficulty telling which gun is which when holding them.
Just like the ad says, the pistol is all-metal except for the grips. The drop-free magazine holds both the BBs and the CO2 cartridge. Just like the Colt Limited Edition NRA 1911 BB Pistol we looked at yesterday, the CO2 piercing screw is a large Allen screw in the bottom of the magazine, so it’s completely hidden from view.
In all other ways I can think of except caliber, the Legends P.08 is just like the firearm. Even the safety is a lever located at the left rear of the upper frame and gets pushed forward to shoot and backwards for safe. It does have the letters S and F, to indicate where to position the lever instead of the traditional German word Geschichert (literally translated as “secured”).
Here you can see the safety lever on the left side of the pistol, and also the rear sight notch that is an integral part of the rear toggle link.
The P08 firearm safety says “secured” (indicates gun is on “safe”) in German.
Why not a Luger?
Why does Umarex call this a P.08, instead of a Luger? Everyone knows this handgun as a Luger, don’t they? Yes and no. The general population does recognize this form as a Luger, and more often as a German Luger (Switzerland adopted it many years before Germany). Even collectors will sometimes use the term, though they know it’s incorrect. The thing is that Germany never referred to the gun as a Luger. When they adopted it for their army in 1908, they simply called it the Pistole 08, just like we call our Springfield rifle the 1903 for the same reason. They never marked the gun with the designation P08 to my knowledge, but that’s the only term they ever used for this variation of the pistol.
In the 1920s, the Stoeger Corporation acquired the rights to the Luger name and afterwards used it on pistols they contracted to have made. Some were made by the original P08 factories, while others were made by firearms manufacturers that were never associated with the original military pistol. Strictly speaking, only a Stoeger pistol can be a Luger.
Operation
The pistol loads BBs and gets filled with CO2 in the conventional way. Pull down the follower and drop the BBs into a hole at the bottom of the magazine. You’ll have to manually hold down the follower, for there’s no catch. The CO2 cartridge slips in the side of the magazine and is pierced by the large Allen screw in the base. After that, slide the magazine into the grip of the gun until you hear it click into place. Cock the gun to fire.
When the bolt goes forward, the BB is pushed up the ramp, where the magnetic, hollow bolt tip grabs it for shooting.
To cock the gun, grasp the two knurled toggle knobs and pull up and back. It’s a move that takes some practice, but it’s a lot easier on the BB gun than cocking a 9mm Luger!
Once cocked, the gun’s ready to fire. It fires with the magazine in or out of the gun. The trigger is 2-stage, but the transition between stages is not distinct. Think of it as a single-stage trigger. It breaks at 2 lbs., 11 oz, which is lighter than any of my firearm Lugers and also lighter than my Wilson Combat 1911. It is a trigger to remember! According to Umarex USA, the trigger-pull is 3 lbs., 6.4 oz.
Velocity
Okay, how fast is it? With Umarex Precision Steel BBs, the pistol averaged 290 f.p.s. for the first 10 shots. That was waiting 10 second between shots.
When I fired 5 shots as fast as possible and then sent shot 6 through the chronograph, it went about 262 f.p.s. So, the velocity does drop as the gun’s fired.
Shot 34 went 279 f.p.s. after waiting 2 minutes from the last shot (which was 246 f.p.s.). Shot 40 went 247 f.p.s. after 5 quick shots. Shot 48 went 221 f.p.s. Shot 49 went 217. Shot 50 went 211 f.p.s., and I noticed that the blowback was very weak. Shot 51 went 199; shot 52 went 184, and then the gun exhausted gas after the shot.
Field-stripping
Don’t try this at home! Seriously, guys, unless you know how to disassemble a Luger correctly, you better not try this. I am showing it to shop how realistic the gun is. There’s no need to strip the pistol, and the manual doesn’t cover it.
If you know how to disassemble a Luger, the BB pistol is similar. There’s no reason to do this, so leave it alone unless you know how a Luger comes apart.
Here’s a short video showing how quickly I field-stripped it.
And this is how quickly you can assemble it.
Imagine all the possibilities!
Okay, Umarex, you’ve got our attention — now, go crazy! How about an artillery Luger, followed by a Luger carbine with shoulder stock and snail drum magazine? What about a copy of the Swiss Luger, with its wide, deeply scalloped toggle joints? And, where’s the beautiful leather clamshell holster?
Evaluation so far
This BB pistol is a winner. It’s easy to see why it costs what it does. This is more realistic than anything I’ve seen so far.
It seems that Umarex is doing a nice job on these legend guns.
And I tried watching the video’s on my phone and the frames were breaking up or something. My phone has not had problems with video’s.
I will try the video’s on my laptop when i get home to see if its my phone. But from what I could see it went pretty fast field stripping and assembling.
Gunfun
I got the legends non blow back P08 and it is a fun little pistol to shoot. I picked it up at a flea market with a box of powerlets and bb for 60 bucks.
I wish I had known they were going to make a blow back model. I also own a Stoeger arms 22LR pistol that is just like the 9mm one only shoots 22s and it fun to shoot it also.
BB that is a mighty fast field stripping at 17 seconds. Very cool bb gun.
buldawg
buldawg
With out looking I think you said that some where before.
I always remember as a kid seeing them in movies I guess and thought they were cool guns and definatly set apart from the way pistols normaly looked.
And I new it was something different when I saw the action work. I liked watching war movies when I was a kid.
Gunfun
I think I did tell you about it before also but was not sure so I thought I would mention it.
I checked out the hawke scope with the 10% discount it would be 145 with shipping and if it rains on the 25 then you get another 20% back so I got to get it ordered before the 30th of this month to get the rain rebate and then do the rain dance on the 25th.
buldawg
buldawg
I bought a few things so I been rain dancen’ every day.
And I don’t know if you saw that post I did the other day to somebody but I have 4 Hawke scopes right now and all 4 are producing the same focus on the side wheel range finder.
That is a good sign that the scopes are biult with some type of tolerances in mind.
Gunfun
I got my scope and pellets in my cart and waiting till I get my money for the gamo to buy if it does not get by the 30th I will order anyway and start my rain dancing. got a box of 177 10.5s, tin of JSB 10.34s, tin of JSB 15,89s and a tin of metal mags in 22. Just waiting to order.
buldawg
buldawg
Read down at the bottom.
I got the blowback one several months ago from Pyramidair off Ebay- probably have shot about 30 bbs total using 5 CO2 s – now dont work at all can load co2 s do test fire ok put in bbs – pull trigger all the co2 blows out into gun handle – have contacted PyramidAir by e-mail . Will see what happens .
Gunfuin
Still no contact from the buyer of my gamo so it is definitely not worth the trouble to buy more to sell when I cannot even get the buyer to respond to me for the frist one.
Its starting to irritate me as to why I have not even received a return email and I sent him a reminder one earlier tonight also. Not cool by my standards.
buldawg.
buldawg
Like I said before that’s why I don’t like messing with that stuff.
I would rather buy from a company that has a reputation and know that I can return something if I don’t want it. And also know that I’m getting the product that’s advertised. Not something different when it shows up.
Pyramyd AIR for example. I have ordered from them so much and know I get what I order. Other company’s have messed up orders and sent me wrong things. Then that turns into a big hassle plus then I have to wait to do what was planned for with that item.
So you know who my orders are from. Somebody I trust. Pyramyd AIR. I sound like a salesman don’t I. But all i can do is say the truth.
Gunfun
I can return it no question asked at sportsman guide and probably should have just done that, but I thought I could make a little off it by selling on GB. I have never had any problems on ebay selling and this is the first time on GB so I am sure I will get my money it is just gone to take a little time and it would take just as much time by sending it back for sportsman guide to refund my card. This way I get the cash in my hand or paypal to spend on what I want.
I guess I expect people to be like me when I bid on something I pay right away because I want the item as soon as possible, so I guess this guy is in no hurry or could be out of town. He has a score of A+ with a total count of 76 items bought or sold so he does pay and and as far as I know the money order or check could be in the mail and he just does not email for contact.
I have a phone number for him so I will call tomorrow and see what the deal is with not responding to me as he has my number also so there is no reason not to get in contact.
He is from Savana Illinois so he is in your neck of the woods and I may have to get you to go wup up on him for me LOL.
Buldawg
buldawg
I don’t even know where Savana Ill. is at. I have heard of it.
And sorry I’m getn’ to old for those wup up days. But it sounds like he has a good reputation. I think you will be ok.
Gunfun
I responded to your post about the rain dancing and your four scopes being exactly the same but it is in time warp now, I have my scope and three tin and one box of pellets in my cart waiting to order them.
I knew you were to old to wup up on him but thought you would get a laugh from it. If I had to wup on some one I would have to have a big stick or some other equalizer to get it done also.
I am sure I will get paid I am just like you and don’t like the wait and non response type of people.
buldawg
Gunfun
My posts are in time warp of the spam folder so you will have to wait to get them.
I am going to bed now so talk to you tomorrow.
Buldawg
The video works on my laptop but not on my phone.
So I don’t know if its my phone or the way the link is provided that my cell phone wont accept correct ???
Remember you couldn’t receive the pictures on the phone either so it must be a downloading problem, check if your phone is over a data limit if you have one, most do.
RDNA
That’s why I said my phone has been ok.
Remember I was able to open one of your pictures you sent me but not the others.
My brother emailed me a video that same day you sent the pictures and I had no problem viewing it. And one of my buddies emailed me some pictures that day and I had no problem with them. Buldawg has sent pictures also and I haven’t had any problems.
So not sure why its not working. And way good on data limit.
Must be bad satellite’s and reception, something. I don’t know if you hook up with wifi ever but having the settings turned on to use WiFi as well as your networks can fill in the blanks sometimes.
My neighbor has WiFi and we’re hooked up to it and so at home never have to use our network, the WiFi comes straight from his router/hardline so it’s 100%, being so close too. The phone is 4g to a point and 3g for the rest of its unlimitedness. Doing this saves the 4g for when we’re out n about.
RDNA
Mine is 3G and 4G and I also have mine set up for WiFi. We have 2 different systems at work and they allow us to use the WiFi on one system.
I was at work when you sent the pictures and my brother sent the video and he had a 10 mile long description with the video of what he had to go through changing the fuel tank liner on his 72 Corvette and loaded perfect on my phone.
I think its got something to do with the way the phone receives a video with the URL or there is a setting I’m overlooking on the phone. Maybe its something to do with the routers. I don’t know.
And I haven’t tried watching BB’s tear down video yet on my phone today. So I’m going to try right now and see.
RDNA
Well this is weird on my cell phone. The tear down video is still showing half the picture with light and dark gray block type lines and I can see some a the picture showing through like last night. But the assembly video is working fine.
My laptop is showing the video fine.
Funny thing, I don’t think of myself as being really into replicas or pistols – the vast majority of my shooting is with my FWB602 and Weihrauch HW-77 – but ones like this give me a bad case of lust. I got a Tanfoglio 1911 back when they first came out because they just seemed so cool. No honkin’ big knob at the bottom to pierce the CO2, the magazine is pretty much then same size as the real thing, the weight is pretty much the same as the real thing, the slide blows back and cocks the hammer giving you a single action trigger, the safety, magazine release etc. work just like the firearm… Couldn’t resist. A lot of fun to shoot too and I can shoot in it my games room. Looks like I’m going to have to add this one to the collection too. On top of everything else I fing that P-08 toggle mechanism fascinating. I had a chance to try a KWC marked one a little while back and it did everything right. About the only thing I could think of to improve it would be either a wood grip option or a heavier, nicer plastic grips. If the grips felt as good in the hand as my old Webley Hurricane both this and the Tanfoglio would be pretty much perfect. I’ve already decided to get the Legends Mauser too. I would love a Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless replica but I doubt they’ll ever make one of those. Maybe as a consolation prize they’ll eventually make a PPSh41, Thompson, MP-38, Sten or Sterling!
Unless its only classic guns your into, the HK USP replica airsoft and bb co2 pistols have a great all inclusive magazine and real feel. Not blowback, though, I don’t think there’s one.
The airsoft version was a blast, shoots really hard.
Umarex may not be able to make a rifle worth my taking a look at, but they definitely have my attention with their new pistol line. With their new 1911A1, P08 and M712 I could see me trying CO2 again. Very likely I will end up with the M712 myself, but I could also see me picking up a 1911A1 for someone I know.
Buldawg,
The slugs I am referring to are not the rifled slugs. They are for use in slug guns with rifled barrels. They are shaped like airgun pellets (diabolo) and are held in a sabot similar to a shot cup inside the cartridge or shell if you prefer.
There are many shotguns on the market now that have interchangeable chokes. The rifled choke allows these shotguns to use the “new” slugs which perform much better than the old rifled slugs. It basically turns the old smooth bore barrel into a smooth twist.
RR
Ok that just show how long its been since I have shot my shotgun. I know what a saboted bullet is as I have a CVA 45 cal black powder gun and I shoot Hornaday saboted bullets in it.
I knew that shotguns have had interchangeable chokes for many years because my old 70 model 1100 could have been bought with a multi choke barrel they were just for shot shells back then. I was not aware that they now make screw in rifled chokes now though until you just stated it to GF1 above. I think that the saboted slug with a rifled choke would be pretty good, do they shoot better than a fully rifled shotgun barrel and do you still use the same saboted slug in a full rifled barrel as you would a screw in choke one.
My old 1100 has been converted into a home defense gun with a speedfeed stock and forearm and a 21 inch smooth bore barrel with an extended magazine that allows it to hold 9 rounds with one in the chamber.
I have the shells staggered in 00buck then #4 buckshot and back to 00 buck and so on, so I only have be pointing in the general direction to stop a home invader in the middle of the night. It also has a torch light and green laser on it with pressure switches.
Buldawg
You are using the same shell, but I do not have personal experience with either one, so I do not know how well they work. From what I am told, they work real well.
I would consider not using 00 inside the house as it will penetrate through interior walls and possibly hit someone you do not wish to. #4 at the ranges you will find inside a home will have a devastating effect and will be less likely to continue on after encountering a wall.
RR
Its only me and my wife here in the house and she will be behind me so there is not that much of a concern with hitting someone else and actually that some one else would be the one I am trying to hit.
But you are right in that 00 buck will go thru walls; but then so will a home defense hand gun so it all boils down to knowing what and who you are pointing at or trying to stop from doing harm to you or your family.
I have never shot slugs myself either as my opinion is that a shotgun is for shooting shot not slugs, if you are hunting something you need a slug to kill then you should be using a rifle.
buldawg
If the M712 will field strip like the original, I will wet myself.
I just received my P 08 blow back and sure enough, it does field strip !!! Yea, it’s a guy thing.
BUT, be careful because there are a couple of LBTs (that’s little bitty things) that will fall out and be lost.
So, if you do just have to do this, make sure that you do it in a wash tub to catch them.
I have not shot it yet, but I will in few days and report back on this blog.
BTW, I also have the non blow back version and also a real gun. It is a double date.
I tried this an a spring and little pin fell out. No idea where they go back in. Can you advise?
Thanks
Sorry for my slow reply. I had to get my P.08 out and take it apart to find out an answer for you.
The first piece that you remove is the lever with round knurled button marked with a ’15’ . When you withdraw this piece there is a hole in the cross-pin of this piece into which the spring and pin will drop in. make sure that the rounded end of the pin is pointed out.
I hope this helps.
BW-Dtx,
Thank you for providing that information. I don’t know if Hugh is still reading this report or not, but that was a kind thing to do.
Welcome to the blog.
B.B.
Thanks so much for that advice. I was looking all over for a likely spot for the spring and pin to fit in to no avail. I’m away for a few days but will try when I get home and let you know how it works out. Great gun to shoot.
Thanks again for the advice it is all back together again. Also found out the gun won’t fire with the magazine in unless there are bb’s loaded, but will fire with no magazine. Great gun to shoot, feels good and reasonably accurate for no rifling. And the magazine is way easier to load than the Tanfoglio Witness 1911. Thanks again.
We forgot to add this announcement to the blog. I’ve just added it but wanted to repeat it here for those who’ve read the blog before it was added:
Pyramyd Air’s social network sites and this blog will celebrate “National Ask a Stupid Question Day” on Sunday, September 28, 2014. The blog will have a special short posting on that day for those who want to participate for the hours indicated. Of course, the rest of the blog is still available for those who don’t want to participate. See the times and locations on Pyramyd Air’s site.
Thanks,
Edith
Appears to be a penance. Wonder what he did wrong?
kevin
Kevin,
Tom recently participated in an event on the Pursuit Channel for American Airgunner TV on Facebook. Turned out to have a LOT more questions and engagement than we expected. We suggested to Pyramyd AIR that having a Tom Gaylord event on their social network sites might prove helpful to shooters. So, when National Ask a Stupid Question Day came up, Pyramyd AIR thought this would be a good opportunity to have a one-on-one with Tom.
I’m surprised at the number of people who will comment on Facebook but won’t ask a question or make a comment on the blog. They’re regular blog readers, but they prefer to speak only on Facebook.
Edith
Edith,
Interesting. I’m the opposite. Have no use for facebook, twitter or any other social media site.
Nonetheless, it’s comforting to know you’re keeping him busy on weekends. Less trouble that way.
Have a great weekend. I’m off to leadville.
kevin
I don’t care at all for that stuff either.
I will second that also .
Buldawg
Coincidence guys? That’s way were here and they’re there, lol, I hate the upyourbuttedness of Facebook, won’t make one.
You guys sound like those that didn’t want to learn about the internet when it started spreading.
I like facebook. I can see some updates from Crosman, Umarex or Hatsan just for following them.
I won a Crosmaniac prize package a few years ago on FB, it had a catalog, some stickers, a patch and a REALLY nice leather shoulder holster with their name on it! I won a few other contests on FB too… to me, totally worth it.
I also got to chat with Rick Eustler once and some people wil get to chat with the famous Tom Gaylord and Paul Capello this week-end thanks to FB. Sure it will steal your “privacy” but the only info it can steal from you is what you put on it. I put my name, birthday (without the year) and one of my email adresses on it and that’s it!
J-F
J-F,
Wasn’t aware that Paul Capello was also having a live chat this weekend.
Edith
Add another one here…not on Facebook and wouldn’t know how to ‘tweet’ if my life depended on it.
Here’s how much of (proud) Luddite I am.
I have a cell phone…not a smartphone, but an old fashioned flip phone.
I know how to make or take a call and that’s it.
About a year ago it make a weird beep that it had never made before. I looked at it and said out loud to know one in particular…’what the heck does that mean’.
My 12 years old piped up…’someones texting you dad’
I gave him the phone, he pushed one of the buttons and lo and behold I did have a text.
Well blow me down…didn’t even know the thing was capable of doing that.
In the year since I’ve used it to text someone maybe 1/2 dozen times.
I don’t even own a cell phone . Did for a short time ,and then I realized that despite the convience of the device, it isn’t much fun being “available” all the time and realized that I did fine without one for more than 3/4’s of my life. If the lights should ever go out ,a lot of folks today will have a hard time coping…
Robert,
Interesting about the lights going out. My brother lives in Houston. When Hurricane Ike hit a few years ago, his home phone, internet & power were knocked out for days. But his cell phone service was never interrupted. I would have thought it would be the other way around. He used his car’s cigarette lighter slot to charge his cell phone & other electronics 😛
Edith
I went down to help with the cleanup down there and would have been stranded big time if not for my cell, still spent the night under a rose bush. I didn’t get one until after a bad motorcycle wreck that sprained both of my ankles and wrists & shattered my elbow. When I had to walk to the apartment complex office to call in to work, then find a friend who wasn’t working to help go get my bike outta impound I caved in pretty quick.
In truth that is about the only reason I own a cell phone at all…emergencies.
Often, when I’m just tooling around town the cell gets left at home.
It’s not that I have anything against electronics per se…in fact they are indispensable for my work and I am connected from 7AM-4PM everywork day. But in the evening or on weekends I seldom log on and can go for days without being connected.
Partly I just don’t trust them…both privacy-wise and just the fact that many people couldn’t survive these days if the grid went down.
I don’t consider myself a ‘prepper’…but we do have a two month supply of MRE’s for everyone in the family…lots of water and 6 months worth of all prescriptions.
And my 13 year old can set a course by compass and read a topo map (and the 11 year old is going to learn next summer). And both are pretty adept at finding wood that will burn and getting a fire going.
I know many of my friends think I go overboard…and I seriously hope these are never really need (as I say this the first ebola case has been verified in the U.S.), but being prepared for the worst never hurts.
Heck…maybe I am a prepper 🙂
25 years ago, that was part of the inspiration for me obtaining a “NoGood” Technician class amateur radio license (The FCC had finally authorized a class that did not require passing a morse code test while granting VHF/UHF privileges; Lockheed Sunnyvale had a repeater [along with lots of others in the area] with autopatch [ability to connect to the phone system with touchtone codes from a handheld transmitter]). $500 for an HT, and about $40 on study materials for the license test, at the time, was a more favorable outlook than a $40/month bulky cellphone.
Hey,Cowboystar Dad! Let me get this straight……..your phone folds up?? What will they think of next!! (make you feel high tech,mine is a plain lump of old school phone) Old school!
What’s Facebook?
Edith
I can’t understand how anybody underestimated Tom’s irresistible draw, can you?
I have tons of stupid questions. Chief among them, “Where is that shirt that I like that I can’t find?”
SL,
Tom will deserve those questions.
When he was visiting his sister in Denver long before we met, they went on a public tour of Coors Brewery in Golden, CO. At the end of the tour, the guide asked if there were any questions. According to legend, Tom raised his hand and asked 2 questions: “Is it true a dog’s mouth is cleaner than a human’s?” & “How many miles of steel are in the Empire State Building?”
When we were living in Maryland, we went up to Lancaster County in Pennsylvania for a tour of an old Amish home that had been turned into a museum. After the tour, the little 80-year-old lady asked if there were any questions. I gave Tom “that” look that most wives have had to give their husbands at one time or another. Fortunately, the woman immediately added “about what you’ve learned here today.”
Edith
B.B.
My P08 does have the word Geschichert engraved into the frame. Here’s the link to my picture showing the left side of the pistol. The safety is in the safe position, and the engraved word Geschichert is visible.
/customer-product-images/m/legends-blowback-p08-co2-pistol-full-metal/3485
Charles,
I just looked at our gun, and it also has “Gesichert”! Thanks for pointing this out.
Edith
Charles,
Good catch! I never noticed it.
B.B.
This brought back a memory.
I must have been around 9 or 10 years old when I shot my first handgun. It was a P08 that a family friend let me shoot. He also gave me a live 9mm round. I kept that round for years. Don’t know what happened to it. Have never shot a P08 since.
kevin
I am impressed with these replicas, too. I haven’t bought one before, but I will probably purchase the metal select-fire Broomhandle when its available.
30 years ago, I bought a Walther PP and P38, and a P.08 when I was a lieutenant in Germany. The Luger was the most expensive, and it was $180 and came with a holster, cleaning rod and spare magazine. I sold it to a friend shortly afterward. He still has it, and taunts me when I visit, asking if I’d like to see “my Luger.”
My German landlord was a character. He had many weapons he had picked-up during WWII, including an Artillery Luger with buttstock and snail drum magazine. It was a thrill to shoot.
RB
RB,
I hunted with a German when I was in Germany in the ’70s who owned many battlefield weapons like you describe. One of his friends owned the Kartoffle 45, a 1911 that had been buried for years in a field and was dug up by a plow. The slide and frame were deeply pitted, but the gun functioned perfectly.
Ah — memories!
B.B.
Now the question; Do I get one for my 83 year old Dad in failing health? I don’t really want him shooting it in his small back yard. But he has an old Luger style pistol ( I am not sure which model he has) and he would love it. What else could I get him that would make him smile so much?
David Enoch
David,
That is a no-brainer. This gun is fun just to hold and admire.
B.B.
David Enoch, that sounds like a great idea, not being able to shoot a loved gun is a bummer, with the replica he could handle it all day and dryfire and go out and try his hand at some mini-sniping! Oh, and I checked out the greenhill formula Tom, I think the results of a desired twist for our .177 projectiles being between 1:20 and 1:23 shows why some pellets destabilize, but why on avarage .177 pellets are so accurate. They start a little faster and actually decel. into their desired twist rates. Another amazing aspect of airguns, or A4, for short.
One of these to go with it. So he can shoot it anywhere.
/product/winchester-airgun-target-cube-for-bbs-pellets?a=4244
David,
Have you seen Paul Capelo’s new Airgun Reporter video for the new Legends M712 with full auto mode?
/product/legends-m712-full-auto-co2-bb-pistol-full-metal?m=3487
From the video, it looks like the M712 does not have a slide lock and keeps firing after the magazine runs out of BBs. This pistol would surely make your dad smile even if he’s just shooting gas blanks.
I had to share this after all the talk about shotgun slugs.
http://www.paraklesetechnologies.com/proddetail.asp?prod=12GA234SLUG%2F10
Reb
That’s cool.
Gunfun
Got an e-mail that the money for the gamo is on it way so will be getting the scope and pellets ordered.
Buldawg
buldawg
Good deal. And remember don’t forget to get some scope rings when you order. They don’t come with the Hawke scopes.
Gunfun
Yep got that covered, but thanks for the reminder because I almost forgot myself.
Buldawg
reb
That’s is one big pellet gun and would be a lot of fun to shoot in the backyard, might get the neighbors attention though. Very cool.
Buldawg
Holy cows! A big bore pellet if I ever seen one!
The very best shotgun slug I have seen for smooth bore barrels is the Federal TruBall. Very, very accurate!
Mike
I hope this is ok to do. But here is the Pyramyd AIR video of the P.08
/airgun-video-details/Legends_P08_Airgun_Reporter_Episode_120/345
I posted the video from my lap top and just went on my cell phone to see if I could view it and it worked fine on my cell phone also.
And that is a cool video by the way also.
I can’t believe there is a national day for asking a stupid question. I thought that was every day. 🙂
The pictures show the quality of workmanship on the Luger, and it’s impressive that it not only looks like a Luger but dissassembles like one too.
Regarding the accurizing effects of hollowpoint designs for bullets, my understanding is that this results from moving the center of gravity backwards which has some benefits. I don’t know that the shape of the cavity in the nose does anything. It is not my guess at what you would do to increase aerodynamic efficiency. That is especially true of .45 ACP hollowpoints that have been called flying ashtrays although I believe they are designed more for expansion. The target hollowpoints that I use in .223 have a barely perceptible cavity in the nose.
Baron Wulfraed, I find it a lot easier to understand the aerodynamics of firearms bullets at the higher speeds than the dynamics of pellets at slower speeds. Maybe the key is to recognize the importance of drag in stabilizing pellets. So, stabilization and accuracy are based in slowing the projectile down which seems a little unintuitive and is opposite from firearms. Without getting caught up in details that would make sense of the complicated shapes of the dumbbell and the diablo pellet which are designed to obstruct air. I’m not sure if you were on the blog when our rocket scientist, Jane Hansen, told us about the aerodynamics of bullets. Her claim which seems to be accurate is that as a fast-moving projectile makes its arc, the nose NEVER coincides with the flight path but only approximates it. The goal is to minimize this discrepancy in the cartridge design. Apparently this is even true of footballs in a forward pass which was not my impression. Anyway, this fact explains the advantage of flat shooting cartridges for long range since the difference between the direction of the nose is kept to a minimum.
Gunfun1, remind me of what a trail-dragger is, a term that I used to know but have forgotten. Does it refer to a prop plane? I had great visions for rc at one point that have since stalled. The main problem was not equipment but location. The only place for me is near the runway for an airfield! So while flying I had to keep scanning the skies for incoming planes and then instantly dive for the deck to get out of the way. This added a touch of realism to flying my Corsair but was too dangerous and nerve-wracking.
Great news! My copy of the Hot Fuzz movie arrived just in time for the weekend, and I will have a report. But for sure there will be plenty of guns and just the kind of low-key, non-serious action that I enjoy.
Matt61
Matt61
The two main landing gear wheels are positioned on the wings. The tail of the plane drags. Usually there is skid on the fuselage in front of the rudder or there is a tail wheel on the rudder.
And I’m dupprisrd you didn’t get avidit while you were flying by a airport. That’s a big no. Sorry. I think you have to be farther than 2 miles away from s airport to fly R/C airplanes.
Suppose to be I’m surprised you didn’t get a visit.
Hot Fuzz is a great shootem’up! Those two guys are a perfect slapstick pair.
Correction to my last comment. I meant to say “the difference between the direction of the nose AND THE FLIGHT PATH is kept to a minimum.”
Matt61
Speaking of shootem’up s and flight path, bout to watch Wanted, another awesome gun flick.
Hello
I have stated my non committal attitude to bb guns a few times here. However, after reading the blog and checking out the great pictures, I feel the Legends P.O8 pistol just might be my first. I used to enjoy a couple of shows from the sixties called “Rat Patrol” and “Combat”. These two shows depicted two different theatres of fighting in WW11. Rat Patrol was all about the North African campaign and Combat depicted the European struggle. Both shows featured authentic weapons from both the axis and allied sides. I remember being immediately taken with the German Luger that seamed to be the sidearm only officers carried. I think it was the simplicity of design that attracted me then as well as now. I didn’t purchase the previous model because it didn’t have the blow-back feature. This model looks and from what I can tell, performs just like the ones I saw on tv so long ago. Thanks BB for bringing this iconic gun to our attention. It seems to have attracted a bit of interest.
Ciao
Titus
Titus Groan
I used to watch the same shows and really liked rat patrol, combat was good also and Vic Morrow made the show seem like you were there with them.
Buldawg
Hello All,
I’ve been in and out of the hospital again the last three weeks, hence my absence. That’s all I’ll say about that now if you don’t mind.
This pistol looks like a wonderful gun which I’ll probably buy but I have a small complaint right now. If I am counting right this is the third time that Umarex has issued a new and greatly improved version of a replica pistol that was previously issued within approximately the past year. Those are the Makarov, the P-08 and the C96 (now the M712). Certainly, Umarex had to know they were working on the new versions prior to releasing the first version, airgun manufacturers don’t move that quickly. The thing is, if I had known about the new versions were in the works I never would have bought the first one. Why do I want two guns that basically look identical?
However, I will get the new ones because the Functional changes are significant enough to warrant it. But now I will have three pistols in my racks that will never be used again. Somehow, I just feel tricked.
Just wanted to get this off my chest. Thanks for listening.
G&G
G&G
I was wondering why you haven’t replied in a while. Sounds like you don’t want to talk about it. But can I say that I hope you are ok. I wouldn’t feel right if I didn’t say that.
G&G,
Welcome back! I hope you’re feeling better.
Yeah it looks like Umarex is using the ole Apple technique of selling one improvement at a time. I’m sure they’ll get an earful about it too!
Tom,
I’ve had this pistol for a few weeks now, having been on Pyramyd Air’s pre-order list early on. Tom, I strongly urge you, indeed, I BEG you, to try all three of the usual bb suspects (Avanti Precision Ground Shot, Daisy Premium Grade, and Crosman Copperheads) for accuracy, as I had interesting results when I tried all three. My gun shoots quite differently with each brand, and what I expected was not what my gun did.
I know your report is not done yet, but I can’t wait any longer to shout this out: THIS IS ABSOLUTELY THE MOST FUN-TO-SHOOT CO2 PISTOL I HAVE!!!!
It is not perfect. I am left-handed, and while it is ambidextrous, I found that a lefty cannot hold the pistol snugly with his or her trigger finger. A lefty’s trigger finger must be arched and the finger tip pad (instead of the trigger-finger joint) placed on the trigger blade. This is no problem as the trigger is so incredibly light. The magazine release button is VERY sensitive, and the slightest pressure on it from a left-handed shooter’s trigger finger will make the magazine drop about 1/2 inch, and all of the gas will immediately dump. I went through three powerlets before I figured out what was going on.
Also, at the outset my safety would not budge until I really pushed it hard. I suspect the pistol’s finish had slightly bonded it to the frame. Once I freed it, however, the safety worked smoothly for me.
Michael
Michael,
I respond well to begging. So I will indeed try all three types of BBs that you listed, plus I will also try the Umarex BBs that I find to be very uniform. Like you, I have my notions of what’s what, but as you say, I may be surprised.
I will be moving the safety lever to show what I missed in this report. I also have discovered that there are indeed some P.08 pistols (firearms) that are marked with p.08 in exactly the same way this BB pistol is. So the next report will be a big one.
B.B.
B.B.
Like Michael, I also had some interesting shot results with the blowback P08. Mine does not like Copperhead BBs at all. I shot two 10 shot groups with them from a bench rested position at 18 feet distance to target, and both times the Copperheads were producing 3″ groupings. The individual shots were so evenly spread out it was impossible to call any of them fliers. Umarex and Cybergun/Swiss Arms performed the best so far. Both of those gave me 1″ groups on 8 out of 10 shots. Avanti gave me a 1 1/4″ group on 9 out of 10 shots. Marksman gave me 1 1/8″ on 8 out of 10 shots. Firepower Gold BBs may be another brand that this pistol may not like. One 10 shot group was evenly distributed at a size of 1 5/8″, and a second group was 1 3/4″ on 8 out 10 (the last two were eliminated because the CO2 power dropped.).
This gun seems like a real winner.
J-F
Does anyone here know much about air compressors?
The one I have has 3 cylinders in a W shape and looks a lot like this one:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200596492_200596492
but is a C&H(before Campbell Hausfeld became what they are now.I just found a V twin with a starting bid of $750. I’ll have to wait til Monday before I can call the number to see if parts are still available so I just thought I’d check here to see if anyone may deal with this type of equipment, all the tags are faded and hard to decipher.
Thanks,
Reb
Reb
That compressor you have is designed to produce a lot of cubic feet of air for its size and will keep a large tank filled quite well like a 60 or 80 gallon tank. It could even be used in light industrial applications as 14.9 CFM is a good bit of volume for the normal home and light duty compressor.
What is wrong with it if an thing and what do you want to know.
Buldawg
Buldawg,
Thanks!
Nothing wrong. Just got Buzzards circlin’ and wanna know what it’s worth. From what I’ve learned so far it’s a 2 stage and used in applications that require a lot of volume It looks like $1000 is cheap!
If I do decide to sell it I’ll have to do it online to get close to what it’s worth.
Reb
If you have any information you could provide links to, or just lemme know where to look please do so, even through e-mail.
Sounds like that 2400 KT may not be so far outta reach.
Thanks again!
That helps explain the 2 2.5″ bungs welded into it’s side. It originally came from Dyess AFB & it’s painted marine grey with a 35 gal tank and 11hp motor and goes from 0-130psi in under 2 minutes. I really hate to get rid of it but I figure I can get a regular single stage compressor and a whole buncha other stuff for what it’s worth.
Reb
That s sound right about it being used to fill a medium to large tank ( 30gallon to 80 or 100 gallon tanks )very quickly and if kept maintained it will last for decades. it is way more than you would need in a home environment and is more of a commercial unit. I do not know where to look or any links to give you other than looking on craigslist or ebay for similar items to get a guideline for what it would be worth. If it is in working order and in fact runs and pumps up to 130 psi in 2 minutes then it should be worth at least 800 plus dollars if not the 1000 you would like to get for it. Those old 3cylinder compressors are very high quality built and will last forever, They just are not as efficient on the electrical side to run them compared to what is available today but are more efficient on the air compression side in the fact that it move a high volume of air and will run air toosl very well without turning on and off frequently.
I would check for any type of industrial equipment auctions or internet sales site like ebay or craigslist as they can sometimes be good outlets for selling these type of items and at very least give you an idea of what the market value is for it.
I would think with it in working order it would be easy enough get 800 dollars for it especially if it has the tank and electric motor with it and works. But start higher than you will actually take for it so you have some room to come down and let the buyer think he is getting a good deal.
Buldawg
I’ll be getting on it tomorrow.I just changed the oil this spring, that’s why I had compressor oil to soak the QB-36 seal in.
I’ll be keeping an eye out for another one,it’s also the type of compressor locomotives use for their air brakes(my brother goes back to work for GCSR railway on Monday).
Hello! I know that this is off topic, please excuse. My name is Liz and I just wanted to say hello and stop lurking. This blog is great. I am old hat to firearms but new to air powered weapons. I have a Crosman 1377 and 2240. I have several 22lr firearms as well as a 9mm WW2 Browning Hi-Power and a Remington 870 12g shotgun. I am tired of the ammo shortage and still like to go out to shoot for fun. I have a friend who turned me on to airguns and find that shooting them is great fun! I often have the neighbors over and think its a hoot to shoot inside down my hallway! Just wanted to say hi and introduce myself. Thank you and Pyramyd AIR for opening up a whole new world to me.
Cheers!
Liz,
Welcome to the blog!
You’ll find lots of like-minded folks on the blog. In fact, B.B. regularly mixes in some firearm posts.
The 2 airguns you have are great shooters. Some long guns you might also want to consider are the Crosman 1077 and the Daisy Avanti 499 Champion. Both are accurate. A friend of ours sits on his porch and shoots grasshoppers in his backyard with the 499.
Glad you found the blog. Hope to hear more from you!
Edith
Most of the WWII Lugers I’ve seen do indeed have P.08 on the side of the Luger below the left toggle grip. Here is a picture of one. Look closely and you can see it. http://to.ly/GKeC
My byf 42 has it in that location. I believe they begun doing it after adopting the P.38 in 1938. The two guns overlapped in use, so they were both marked with there respective designation. If you go to google images and put in “byf 42 luger” you can see lots of them with the P.08 on the side…
Johnny,
Yeah, well, what I don’t know about Lugers could fill a book. Many books, actually. And I don’t own most of them.
B,B,
Hello BB
would you possibly consider doing a test on the accuracy ,ease of use , quality , etc of the currently available heavy weight pellets on the market at the moment in .22 or any other upcoming pellets which you know of such as the JSB monsters, the HN rabbit magnums, the Eun Jin pellets, etc
thanking you
Azhar,
Welcome to the blog!
I can do a test, but it needs some parameters. Are you looking for the best heavy pellet for a reason? I mean is there one certain airgun that you want to shoot these pellets in?
I can tell you that I have never found H&N Rabbit Magnums to shoot well in any airgun, and the same goes for all other solid pellets. I would have to shoot those in something really powerful like a Condor, to get they to spin fast enough to stabilize.
B.B.
Hello
I am looking for a long range accurate pellet in for my airforce condor
I was looking at the pile driver or rabbit magnum pellets as they appear to have a high bc and so appear to be able to retain energy and velocity at longer ranges and be accurate
I am looking for acceptable accuracy and good velocity retention
Please advise regarding this
Could you also maybe test if the rabbit magnums are more accurate and shoot faster in the condor than the jsb monsters as the condor has a choked barrel
Thanks
Azhar,
That tells me what I need to kno0w to answer your question. None of the solid pellets like the Piledriver or the Rabbit Magnum are accurate. Also, they are both nearly immpossible to load into a Condor barrel. You will be unhappy with them.
The JSB Exact Jumbo Heavy is very accurate, as is the H&N Baracuda/Beeman Kodiak. The Eun Jin is less accurate but delivers more power. Where the Baracurda will put 10 into 0.75 inches at 50 yards, the Eun Jin will put them into 1.5 inches.
Does that help?
B.B.
I was asking about these for my airforce condor for high energy output and velocity retention at longer ranges
I was looking specifically at the rabbit magnum or pile driver pellets however these may be a problem as the condor has a choked barrel and was concerned this may affect velocity and accuracy
Hi
Thanks that does help
What about the JSB monsters
Are they any good
Azhar,
Yes, the JSB Monsters are good in a Condor.
Why don’t I schedule a test for you in the coming weeks? I’ll shoot a Condor with the best heavyweight pellets I can find. I will also discuss the solid pellets like the Rabbit Magnum and Piledriver and show why I don’t care for them.
B.B.
If you can that would be great
Thanks
Azhar,
It’s in the book! I think a lot of readers will be interested in this.
B.B.
B.B.
I have a couple of observations about the P.08 I want to ask you to address in your next blog about the P.08. The first concerns the P.08’s shot performance as the CO2 pressure gets low. On one Umarex CO2 I got 54 total shots with no problems. However this morning with both Crosman CO2 and Swiss Arms CO2 between shots 41 and 48, the P.08 briefly shot in full auto mode with a single pull of the trigger. After that the CO2 was completely consumed. I’d like to know if you observe this behavior when you are doing your shot tests.
My second observation concerns the ring (or loop?) mounted on the back of the pistol just above the grip. Mine popped off while I was shooting this morning. It doesn’t look like any part of the loop is broken. It appears to stay attached to the pistol simply by a tight friction grip in the two holes in the frame. However, mine now will not stay on. After putting the loop back in place and shooting another eight shots, it popped off again. I suppose I could use some super glue to re-secure it to the frame. Since leaving it off doesn’t adversely affect the pistol’s operation, I’m going to keep the pistol rather than send it back. I’d like to know if you observe this problem when you are doing your shot tests.
Charles,
Funny you should say that, because I used an Umarex CO2 cartridge for my test. Shooting full-auto is an indication that gas pressure is low. The ring on the back was for a lanyard, I believe. I have some Luger books on order. I would leave it off it you don’t mind the look.
B.B.
B.B.,
How did the Facebook thing go? I popped in to see what people were saying but from what I could tell there wasn’t much going on.
Reb,
Well, it actually went okay…considering that we were on the wrong facebook page 🙂
To expedite things, I signed in as The Godfather of Airguns and Tom dictated to me whatever he wanted to say (I’m a much faster typist). Unfortunately, I stayed on Tom’s FB page instead of going to Pyramyd Air’s page. We got some questions/activity, but it wasn’t until more than an hour later that I realized I was on the wrong FB page!
I sent to the right page but noticed that there wasn’t anything going on there. I did post an apology, though.
By far, the blog had more than 2x the number of participants than the social network sites.
Edith
I finally found some comments about 10 minutes ago.Of course by then all comments were closed.
The question of where one might find the clamshell holster for a P.08 (or P.03) could be found. I’ve got you answer and you will LOVE it!
Go to the website http://www.worldwarsupply.com. This is a site that offers replica equipment of all sorts from most all countries. Once on the home page, click on the link for German, then select holsters. There are a dozen or so that come up, the clamshell bring one of these.
It is as near perfect I detail as I can imagine right down to the stamping on the reverse side that shows “P.08” and some other indicators of place of manufacture. The detail is perfect. Construction totally great. Best part – the cost. I got mine a few weeks ago and, all in, I paid just $36.98. That includes shipping and taxes!
The clamshell is rigid, so I gave it 4 applications of Neatsfoot leather conditioning oil inside ad out over a 4 day period. Working that in made the leather a bit softer and pliable where it needed to be. Finished it with a good coat of buffed shoe polish. Trust me – this is a great holster for your P.08 or P.03!
Now, a word of caution …
I made the HUGE mistake of purchasing the Umarex P.03 version first. Paid about $65.00 or so. Total waste of money. Why? The trigger on that version. Absolutely worst trigger I’ve ever seen. The pull weight, based on my long experience with triggers, must come in around 16 pounds. Yes, that’s 16 lbs, not 6. I damn near broke several fingers by dry-firing the thing over a 10 day period tryig to wear the sear down to a point where I could at least manage to make it release without my hand shaking. After just over 12,000 pulls (I had a system for keeping track as I went) I did manage to get the pull weight down to what I believe to be perhaps 8 lbs. pr so. But that is still far too heavy if you are trying to maintain any kind of reasonable sight picture. Almost every shot I fire impacts low right, a big indicator of a heavy trigger release.
Bottom line: avoid the Umarex P.03 version, spend up for the P.08. Very worth it if you want something you’ll actually like shooting instead of burying I a drawer to ne forgotten. And oh yeah, the grip panels on the P.03 are the wrong color – they come in black, not the natural brown wood all P.03’s were issued with. The P.08 had the black synthetic grips. I removed and painted mine for the sake of authenticity. And yes, you can easily remove the left side grip panel by just unscrewing the one screw at the bottom of the plate. A Umarex Rep told me not to try that. Idiot. What’s so hard about taking out one screw when there is nothing under it to pop out?
Jim,
You, sir, are a fanatic! That’s great!
Thanks for the link. I bookmarked it.
B.B.
The black plastic grips on the p.08 ARE correct for that style gun, it’s a remake of a version called the black widow, the black widow came with black plastic grips, i would recommend changing them back, the black widow was a rare variant and originals are worth a lot today, using wood grips my sound like a better option but it is no longer a “black widow” variant
NECESITO COMPRAR UNA PISTOLA REPLICA LUGER BB , ES POSIBLE ME ENVÍEN LOS DATOS PARA COMPRARLA , SOY DE CHILE .GRACIAS .
Mario,
Welcome to the blog. You can order directly from Pyramyd AIR online, but you have to follow the laws of your country. They will not break the law. So, if the P08 BB pistol is legal in Chile, then you should be able to order it.
B.B.
Es posible adquirir esta pistola soy de Chile, si s posible indicar la forma
Alejandro,
Entre en contacto con por favor sales@pyramydair.com
Edith
Edith,
Muchas gracias!
B.B.
I really like mine ,but there is room for improvement. The fps is way too low, barely in 300fps range that puts it in the range of the pathetic ppk. Would like to see a redesign with similar co2 mag in 177 pellet ,with fps of around 400-450 fps. wood style grips, optional longer barrel version with shoulder stock. A nice beginning , but room for improvement
I am on my second P.08, my first one was “sold as new” but had a chipped rear sight and had some wear marks on the magazine and shortly after it would drop the magazine when ever i fired it, i contacted Umarex and they told me to send it in so i did and in about 3 weeks or so i got it back, they exchanged it with a new one! so i am back in action, the other one had over 1,000 bb’s fired though it and i had to tape the magazine in at that time, even still it fired fine. but now I think i am going to hold the magazine eject button in when i load in a new mag on hopes to save wear on the notch that holds the mag in, the eject button i believe is made from a stronger metal, i also added a bit of pellgunoil as well, generally that’s what i have on hand but that’s the only issue i had even though i put a lot of use on it. over all for this gun and the price i love it, i had noticed people complaining about the black plastic grips and that was intentional. this P.08 is a replica of a version called the “black widow” that came with black grips, please don’t change them, the black widow was a rare variant