Thursday, March 18, 2010

Vince's "Impossible Dream"

by B.B. Pelletier

Well, Vince is back with another fantastic tale of gunsmithing, gun renovation and making parts. I'm just a tinkerer compared to Vince's vast talent. I enjoy his guest blogs because I always learn something new. You, too?

If you'd like to write a guest post for this blog, please email me.

Bloggers must be proficient in the simple html that Blogger software uses, know how to take clear photos and size them for the internet (if their post requires them), and they must use proper English. We'll edit each submission, but we won't work on any submission that contains gross misspellings and/or grammatical errors.

Now, let's get on with Vince's "Impossible Dream"

by Vince

Ha ha, I know. Vince is gonna clean up his workbench and maybe even get all his tools sorted out. Yeah. Like that's ever gonna happen. No, what I'm talking about is a task that is so incredibly incredible, so unbelievably unbelievable, and so hopeless hapless that only an absolute FOOL would even THINK about attempting it!

I'm gonna accurrize me a Marksman 1010!


The Marksman 1010 Classic.


I can already hear the guffaws and howls of laughter. And frankly, well, there's a reason for that. After all, the Marksman 1010 is a legend without peer in the field of inaccuracy. When B.B. tested one over 3 years ago, he couldn't stay on the 5"x5" target paper--from 10 feet away. I distinctly remember shooting at some cans with mine one evening and knocking one over... one that happened to be about a foot away from the one I was actually aiming at. At about 12 feet. The trigger-pull weight is generally comparable to, say, a Diana 52 with scope. Not comparable to the Diana's TRIGGER weight, mind you, but to the weight of the WHOLE GUN.

So, why even bother?

Actually, the 1010 had a couple of things going for it, especially the old metal ones. First, is the "cool factor." Let's face it; it was all-metal and full-weight before all-metal and full-weight became popular buzzwords. Nobody was going to ever mistake it for the real 1911 it was modeled after, but the resemblance to a real firearm was unmistakenly there. It had REAL heft to it and could be a very formidable close-quarter weapon (well, if used as a club, anyway). Second, it was and is cheap. Third, it was popular, so they're still available in copious quantities for the aforementioned cheapness.

While I was accurrizing Wacky Wayne's Markham Model D way back when (by fitting a Daisy Avanti 499 barrel to it), I got this crazy idea: Why not use a hunk of the other barrel I bought and see if something could be done for the ol' 1010? So, that's exactly what I did.

And then forgot about it. Better late than never.

Without going into personal details, let's just say that my life started getting rather complicated around the time I played with this thing, and I never really gave it a proper test. Well, things are settling down quite a bit now and I'm in the process of going through all my airguns, deciding what to keep and what to ditch. When I came across my old 1010, I remembered my barrel retrofit and decided to give it a real test before deciding what to do with it.

So, I go to my 15' basement BB range, set up a target, filled up the 1010 with new Daisy BBs and let 're rip. The first group was pretty bad, but I was shooting offhand…and I'm a LOUSY offhand pistol shot. To give it a proper test, the next group was shot from a rested position and gave me (Are you ready?)…ALL SHOTS LANDING ON THE PAPER!

Actually, it did much better than that. It gave me a 5-shot group of slightly under 1.75". For a smoothbore springer with me pulling the 50-lb. trigger isn't all that bad. And coming from a Marksman 1010...well, that group size might literally be 1/10 the size it would have shot as it came from the factory.


5 shots, Daisy BBs, using a rest: 1.75" group


Now I'm in a bit of a pickle. Even though the 1010 is not a serious gun for the serious hobbyist, I AM sorta honor-bound to help out poor, overworked BB with a mediocre guest blog once in a while. It's something that I'm not sure has been tried by anyone else. It did work pretty well, and I do have some interesting results to report. But I've got one problem: I don't really remember how I did it.

Fortunately, for me (and less so for the you guys), I took pictures when I did this conversion. Even more amazing, I was able to find those pictures over a year later. Since this sorta jogs my memory, well, this blog ain't over yet. What I'll do is step through these one by one, in more or less the proper order, and give a running narration of how I remember this coming together.

Step one: Get a grip
The 1010 is a surprisingly complicated air pistol for such a cheap little peashooter. It requires a level of patience all out of proportion to the lowly nature of the gun. So be prepared. Just for reference, this is what the "naked gun" looks like:


Gee, I'd never seen this side of you before.


Step two: Do everything else
The next three pictures are a bit of a cheat. I had never photographed the very first steps, so these are recent. Cock the gun halfway (pull the slide back, but do not return it forward), remove the front screw and loosen the others.


Loosen the circled ones, remove the front one. Please note: the cocking slide oughta be pulled back.


Gently pry the halves of the gun slightly apart at the muzzle. NOTE WHERE THAT LITTLE SPRING IS! You'll need to put it back, and it probably won't cooperate. Once you're familiar with where it goes, spread the gun halves just enough to get out the barrel assembly.


Remember where this puppy goes!



Just enough to get it out.



Now, we have to figure out how to get the old shot tube out. Take a look at the barrel assembly from the front. Obviously it's not coming out that way!



Turn around the barrel assembly and remove that rubber grommet/seal in the back...



...and slide the shot tube out.


If you lay the Daisy 499 shot tube next to the barrel housing, you'll get a general idea of how it needs to go in. The outside diameter of the old tube is 1/4", while the OD of the 499 is 5/16". Except for the very end, where it's VERY conveniently turned down to 1/4" from the factory:


Marksman barrel housing and Daisy 499 shot tube.


Here's where I may have inadvertently taken the long way around. I suspect it would have been easier to turn down the OD of the Daisy tube to 1/4", cut off a hunk of the proper length and just slide it back in the way the old one came out. But, NOOOO! Easy ain't for me. Besides, I don't have a lathe, so I did it the hard way. I drilled out the front of the barrel housing with a 5/16" bit.


Please. Do a better job than I did.


Make sure that the plastic bosses on the underside of the housing are cut away as necessary.


Disembowel where indicated.



If I make it long enough, it'll reach all the way to the target!




The new barrel can be slid in from the front until it's even with the back.

At this point, you'll find that you can just put the breech grommet back, just as with the original shot tube.



Pull the grommet back out. The shot tube length has to be cut down and the muzzle crowned…crowned the KING of cheap BB pistols, that is!



A little needs to be ground off the bottom to clear a screw boss.


Grind where circled.


Slide out the shot tube, smear it with a little epoxy and slide it back in. DON'T GET EPOXY IN THE BARREL! Let it set, reinstall the barrel housing into the pistol frame and…voila! You're done!

Now, your beloved 1010 or 2005 (you know, they've got some nerve naming the horrible 2005 something so close to the excellent 2004!) or whatever should now be transformed into a passable plinker. And by that I mean hitting soda cans pretty reliably at BB-gun ranges. Can't help but think that it might even do better with Avanti Precision BBs, but I don't have any of those.

My biggest regret in all this is failing to document the before and after performances. However, I don't think that's too much of an issue here. As I said before, the 1010 and its derivatives are notoriously horrible in the world of BB pistols--a world that is hardly populated with precision shooting instruments. And, yes, I've got airsoft pistols that will shoot under 1" at 15 feet, but that's not really the point.

As I said before, the 1010 IS a cool looking pistol. How many kids AND adults had been horribly disappointed over the years by it's absolute lack of accuracy? Which just ain't right. So, I guess you could say that this was simply a pursuit of justice. Righting a wrong. Bringing balance to the universe and so on. You could say that, but it'd be a wad of horse manure. I just wanted to see how well it'd work, which I did. And I wound up with a 1010 that shoots almost straight, so I can lift up my head and shout to the world: "I'M LIVIN' THE DREAM, MAN!" The Impossible Dream, that is!

Wednesday, March 17, 2010

A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 - Part 4

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3


My enshrined 124.


Today, I'll complete the tune on the FWB 124. A couple people have asked about this gun. What makes it so special? Well, it's lightweight, accurate, easy to cock and shoots like a dream. It's the very rifle AlanL has been searching for but doesn't realize it.

Back in the 1970s, when the FWB first came to the attention of airunners, it was considered one of the most powerful springers available. Together with the BSF S55/60/70 and the Diana 45, it was one of those rare air rifles that would sometimes shoot faster than 800 f.p.s. Today, we wouldn't give it a second look with numbers like that and here is what we would miss. We would miss owning a Mercedes SSK convertible, just because it doesn't go as fast as a Mustang SVO. Nobody would give any thought to the fine coachwork, the burled wood dash or the exotic leather seats. No, they would all be focused on the speedometer and miss one of the finest examples of its kind ever to have been built.

What to expect
With a modern tuneup, like the one I've done here, the 124 should top 840 f.p.s. with Crosman 7.9-grain Premiers. I showed you the tuneup kit yesterday. Today I'll install it along with some lubrication that I always do on a 124. Of course, this is one more reason for owning a chronograph.

Cutting up the old seal
Before I begin, I had some comments that I will now address. First, someone asked me how I cut the thick piston seal to remove it. I mentioned a special knife that I'd like to show you. This tanto-shaped blade comes on a Gerber Crucial multitool that Edith gave me for Christmas. I keep it in my desk drawer and it is one of the handiest multitools I've ever seen. The knife blade is very stout, so it handled this job like a breeze and a few passes over the Warthog got the blade sharp in moments.


A Gerber Crucial multitool has a tanto-shaped blade that was ideal for cutting the old seal into pieces, as shown previously.


Removal of old seal material
The second tip is for Derrick38, who says it can be tough to remove old seal material from a compression chamber. Yes, it can! But I found that the patch removal tool that goes on my Thompson/Center Hawken ramrod is very good at scraping in those tight corners.


The patch removal tool on a Thompson/Center Hawken ramrod is great for picking old seal material out of the crevices of the compression chamber.


Sizing the new seal
The first thing to address is the piston seal. This one fit pretty tight in the spring tube of the rifle, so I decided to remove some material from the edges. There are a lot of ways to do this, and I chose the easiest one because I'm a guy who likes simple. I held the piston with seal in my right hand and a piece of 220-grain sandpaper in my left hand and proceeded to scrub off a tiny bit of the edge of the seal.


This is the way to make the new piston seal a trifle smaller.


You have to know when to stop. I just wanted the new seal to fit in the spring tube with slightly less resistance, which it did after a few minutes of work. Next, I cleaned the inside of the piston with denatured alcohol and Q-tips. It was caked with dried moly or tar that had to be removed. The 124 piston is very heavy for the power the gun develops, so heavy pellets should work pretty well.

Lube the compression chamber walls
I had cleaned out the compression chamber earlier, so now it was time to smear moly grease on the inside walls of the chamber. For that, I use a dowel with a paper towel folded over the end and held on with a rubber band. It allows me to accurately coat the inside of the cylinder.


Moly grease on a paper towel on the end of a dowel is the way to lube the inside of the compression chamber.


Lube the piston
Next, I lubricated the piston before putting it back in the gun. I put a stripe of moly grease around the front with the seal and another around the rear where the piston flares out.


A stripe of moly grease around the piston seal and another one at the rear of the steel piston will keep things slipping along.


The piston can now be inserted back into the spring tube, keeping the cocking slot aligned with the slot in the spring tube. When the front of the piston is in the tube, that's the best time to lubricate the rear of the piston and the piston rod. Shove the piston into the tube with the new mainspring.


A stripe of moly grease around the rear of the steel piston keeps the metal-to-metal contact lubricated.


Install the sliding shoe/cocking link
Once the piston is inside the spring tube, the sliding "shoe" that connects the cocking link to the piston can be lubricated and installed. A wide spot in the spring tube slot accepts this shoe.


The shoe is lubricated with moly grease on both sides and dropped through the wide spot in the spring tube. It rides on a special bearing surface on the piston, so that was also moly-ed before installation.


Lube and install the mainspring
Next it was time to install the new mainspring. Before I did that, the spring got a liberal coating of black tar, the open gear lubricant that deadens vibration. I smear the front half of the spring first, then insert it into the piston and use it to hold the spring so I can lube the rear half.

Caution--here is where I screwed up!
What the picture shows is too much black tar being put on the mainspring. I didn't know that until the job was finished and the gun back together, of course, but I now have a rifle shooting 7.9-grain Premiers at 670 f.p.s. instead of the approximately 840 f.p.s. I expected. I used too much because Jim Maccari said the Mongoose kit I selected was a loose fit and needed tar to calm the vibrations. I hate vibrations, so I went overboard. The fix will be to take the gun apart and remove a lot of the tar I applied.


This is too much black tar. I will have to remove a lot of it.


One thing about fitting a mainspring to a rifle. The tightest end of the spring always goes over the spring guide in the rear.

Lube the baseblock and pivot bolt
The FWB 124 has a baseblock bearing on just the right side. The left side is plain. I smeared moly grease on both sides and also on the pivot bolt before it was inserted.


Moly on both sides of the baseblock and on the pivot bolt will reduce the cocking effort to the minimum.


The trigger unit is now pushed back into the spring tube, keeping tension on the safety spring as you go. When the bolt hole lines up, the bolt is screwed in and the job is just about finished. Just put the action back in the stock and you're done.


Mainspring compressor make this an easy job.


The tuned rifle cocks easily at just 23 lbs. Beeman used to advertise the cocking effort at 18 lbs., but all the 124s (about a dozen) I have tested were around 21-23 lbs. So, we're in the ballpark. Of course, the velocity is low, but I'll take care of that in the next report. I'll also shoot the rifle for accuracy with open sights.

The trigger
The trigger is one thing I never learned to adjust on a 124 and I used to think it was impossible, but I once owned Mrs. Beeman's 124, which I named the Queen B. That trigger broke at less than a pound, so someone knows how to do the job. Just not me.

Irony at work
Of course, the new pliable breech seal was installed and the petrified "new" breech seal I had tried went back into the box with all the other ruined new parts. I find it incredibly ironic that the owner of this fine rifle had wanted to preserve it for all time and it didn't last as well as a similar rifle used every day. I guess man plans and God laughs.

Tuesday, March 16, 2010

A shrine built for a Feinwerkbau 124 - Part 3

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2


My enshrined 124.


Before we start, I have an announcement. I'll be on Facebook answering questions again on April 8th at 8 p.m., Eastern. The last time was during the work day, which may have been inconvenient for many people, so we're giving this time slot a try. Please join me if you're able. I'll be answering airgun questions on Facebook on this Pyramyd Air Facebook page. To see the discussion and ask questions, you must have a free Facebook account.

Today, I'll start the tuneup on this rifle, and I have some very interesting things to show you. I'll get through the disassembly in this installment, and in the next part I'll tune the rifle.

I purchased a Maccari Mongoose tune kit that includes the mainspring and seal. I also bought a new breech seal to replace the new one in the box that had hardened over the years. Finally, I bought some of Jim's Heavy Tar and his moly grease, because I'm getting low on those supplies.


This is the kit and lubes.


Step one in disassembly is to remove the action from the stock. That's two forearm screws and the front triggerguard screw. The moment the action was out, I saw clear evidence that this rifle had received some kind of tuneup in the past. I could see that the mainspring was coated with black tar, a product they didn't even know about in the 1970s when this rifle was new. For a few minutes, I thought maybe I had done it and had forgotten I did, but as the gun came apart I saw proof that I had never been inside.

Once the action is out of the stock, it goes into the mainspring compressor. Blog reader Vince said that he doesn't use a compressor, but the 124 is one of those rifles that really needs it. And here's a big tip. When you adjust the compressor to receive the rifle, leave a lot of adjustment room on the screw that backs off the spring tension. You really need the room there.


The single bolt in front of the trigger blade holds the 124 action together.



Leave lots of room for the mainspring to back up.



I use a heavy cardboard pusher to avoid damaging the rifle's finish.


The trigger assembly and safety slide came out without a problem, as did the mainspring. It was in very good condition; but I've purchased a replacement whose pedigree I know for certain, so I'll replace it anyway.


With the tension off the mainspring, the trigger unit moved almost two inches back. It will need an extra inche to install the new spring.



The trigger unit contains the mainspring guide. The old spring is in pretty good shape. That's the assembly bolt that held the rifle together.


Before the piston will come out, it must be disconnected from the cocking link. For that to happen, the barrel has to come off the action fork. When I pulled off the barrel, I saw no evidence of moly grease on the sides of the baseblock or on the pivot bolt. They were lubricated with a light machine oil. That's a clear indication that I've never been inside this airgun.


The cocking link fits into the cocking shoe that is held captive inside the piston until the barrel is disconnected from the spring tube.



The pivot bolt is the large screw on the right. Take it out and the baseblock separates from the action fork.


With the barrel off, it's possible to slide the cocking link far enough to the rear of the cocking slot that the FWB cocking shoe can be removed. There's a widened spot in the cocking slot just for this.

Now the spring tube is disconnected from the barrel and the piston slides out easily. When I saw this one, I knew the seal was gone. Just look at the picture!


A classic case of a disintegrated piston seal, with the new one for comparison. This happens to FWBs, Walthers and Diana recoilless guns made during the 1970s.


Usually, I can pop out an old 124 seal in a few seconds. This one took an hour. Although the top part had disintegrated, the bottom was still fresh and strong and fought me at every point. I finally had to cut it into four sections to pry one of them out.


Took me an hour to cut the old seal up. Hardest replacement I've ever encountered.



This is the action fork I mentioned earlier.


Okay, with that much disintegration of the seal, there will be lots of seal parts inside the compression chamber, as indeed there were. Use something sharp and pointy to dig them out of the corners, where they will have impacted over time. I used a patch extractor on the ramrod of my Thompson/Center Hawken. Then, I wrapped paper towels around the end of the rod and soaked them in denatured alcohol to clean the compression chamber. There was no moly there--another indicator that I have never been inside this rifle. Clean until all the seal particles are out and the compression chamber sparkles.

All the oil needs to be cleaned off the baseblock and the action forks. They'll get a coat of moly grease when they go back together. The pivot bolt will also get a coat of moly, but I'll describe all that in detail when I tune the rifle.

That's as far as I will go today.

Monday, March 15, 2010

The Crosman Silhouette PCP pistol - Part 4

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

Okay, today would normally be accuracy day for this pistol, and I will shoot it for accuracy, but today is going to serve a double purpose. You see, the Crosman Silhouette PCP pistol is shipped without a rear sight because of all the possibilities customers will have for the airgun. Some may want to use it for silhouette competition, but a lot more are going to have other uses for it. So, no rear sight.

However, Crosman sent me a peep sight to test with the pistol, and therein lies the extra fun in today's report. Because last week when I was struggling to turn a 1980s-rear peep into something I could use with the Bronco, I had on my desk the probable answer to our problem all along. This new Crosman sight that I paid no attention to before now appears to be the very Williams rear sight that one of our readers (I believe it was Randy in VA) suggested we test with the Bronco. So, after today's evaluation, I'll move this sight over to the Bronco and test it there for you.


New Williams peep from Crosman shows a LOT of promise.


Today, we're concentrating on the Crosman Silhouette PCP, which is a single-shot .177 caliber pneumatic target pistol designed for shooting airgun silhouette. The sight elevation had to be cranked way up to clear the bolt handle on the left side, but it was easy to do and worked fine. The the dovetail adjusting screws are run in tight and the dovetail locking screw sucks everything together.


Sight fits the pistol great and adjusts the way I like it--with detents!


This sight has click detents, something my Beeman Sport Aperture doesn't have. That makes adjusting a breeze.

7.9-grain Premiers
Sight-in started at 10 feet and I was on in four shots. Then out to 10 meters, where the elevation was close but the shots were to the right. I shot a group of Crosman 7.9-grain Premiers that looked pretty good, though I knew I could do better. All shooting was rested and I was wearing my bifocals. Since this was with iron sights, I concentrated on the front sight and let the target and aperture go fuzzy. The aperture in this sight is huge, no doubt because this is a pistol. Even so, it seemed to work well.


The 10-meter sight-in target. Group in the white at the right was the first group. Then the sights were adjusted to the left, resulting in the shot at 4 o'clock in the black. More left gave me the group in the center of the bull. Shot low at 6 o'clock is part of that group.


JSB Exacts
Then I switched to JSB Exacts and what a difference! I got the kind of precision usually only gotten with a scope!


Okay, I'm happy with this quarter-inch five-shot group at 10 meters. Five 10.3-grain JSB Exacts.



Five Beeman Kodiaks gave me this group.



A final group of five JSBs.


Firing behavior
When the gun discharges, there's a definite torquing to the right. It happened on every shot and was enough movement to be disconcerting, though the targets don't show anything.

The rough, crude trigger makes me long for something more sophisticated. When I hold on target as with a 10-meter pistol, I don't like a long creepy second stage, but that's what the gun has. Owners should plan to address this issue.

The noise is incredibly low for a PCP. Granted, this isn't a powerful gun, but I was still running it at 500 f.p.s. from the last test and thought it was very quiet. Not as quiet as a 1077, but less than a medium spring rifle.

One of our reraders said that I never say nasty things about airguns. Well, that's true. It's not my style. So, for his benefit I will say that I am about to gush all over this airgun, so stand back, Jack. This is a natural shooter--that rare and precious gun that shoots exactly where you aim every time. I knew that last summer when I shot the prototype Ray Apelles brought to his field target episode with American Airgunner. I still think so.

This sight is a winner, too. I'll mount it on the Bronco, and we'll have a go there. Pyramyd Air stands ready to order this sight for us, and I think it's a good idea.

Friday, March 12, 2010

The Bronco from Air Venturi - Part 6

by B.B. Pelletier

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5


Air Venturi Bronco.


Before we begin, I have a request from a reader in Iowa. She would like to learn more about airguns and shoot with some clubs in and around Montezuma. Any airgunners who belong to clubs in that location, could you please identify yourselves in the comments to this report, and I'll let her know how to contact you. The sport you shoot isn't that important. It can be field target, silhouette or 10-meter. As long as airguns are involved, she wants to start shooting.

Today, I'm looking at mounting a Mendoza rear aperture sight on a Bronco. This was my original plan for this rifle, but the cost proved too much, so I made it an option. Like all of you, I expect a Mendoza sight to work correctly on a Mendoza rifle, which the Bronco is. The problem with this sight is that it's always too high for the rifles people put it on, and today we'll learn how the Bronco accepts it.

No-go
The short of it is that the Mendoza sight does not adjust low enough to shoot at 10 meters with the Bronco. There are many fixes for that, such as lengthening the front sight, but that's not what I'm reporting on today. How sad that a rear aperture sight does not allow adjustment for a distance at which many shooters would like to shoot. I'll speak to Mendoza about this because it's a serious drawback to an otherwise fine product. However, much like the Mythbusters, I have a fallback plan.

The Beeman Sport Aperture sight
It costs more than twice what the Mendoza sight costs, but the Beeman Sport Aperture sight does adjust lower. It isn't currently available, but that's being looked into. The changeover of the Beeman company ownership has left many of their products in a state of limbo that only now is being addressed.

What I'm about to describe may no longer be necessary, because my Beeman sight is at least 20 years old. I note that the one Pyramyd Air sold most recently is already modified in the way I am about to describe.

Having a Beeman sight on hand, I mounted it and started shooting. Once again, though, it was a no-go. While the Beeman sight made by Williams does indeed adjust much lower than the Mendoza, the elevation post slide on the left side of my older sight hits the stock at some point. As I said, the new sights may not have this problem. If your sight does, it leaves you with two options.

Two options
Option one is to cut a clearance slot in the wood stock. Option two is to remove the bottom of the elevation post, which will allow lower adjustments. I chose option two, because this is a problem this sight has on a great many air rifles.


The Beeman Sport Aperture sight hits the top of the stock which limits how low it will adjust.



This is a .17 HM2 rifle a friend made up for me. He mounted the aperture sight and carved out the stock for maximum adjustability. I didn't want to do that with the Bronco's stock.



The bottom portion of the elevation staff is useless to this sight. I decided to whack it off.


It took a Dremel tool cutoff wheel about five minutes to slice off the unwanted bottom of the staff. Then, a few strokes of a file dressed the cut clean.


With the bottom gone, the elevation will adjust much lower. Hopefully, I'll be on target at 10 meters.



Back on the rifle, you can see how much lower the Beeman sight adjusts. Will it be enough?


Success!
Back to the range and success at last. The pellets now drill the center of the bull at 10 meters. Anything farther will require elevation, which I have in bucket loads.


The tell-all picture. Top group was with the Mendoza sight adjusted as low as it would go. Next down is the Beeman sight before modification as low as it would go before bottoming out on the Bronco stock. Bottom group is the Beeman sight after being cut off.


So, the outcome of today's report is that the Mendoza rear sight doesn't adjust low enough for the Bronco. The Beeman Sport Aperture doesn't either, but with ten minutes work, it will. I think I would keep this sight on the Bronco because it is quick and easy to use, and I even think it looks better.